SoccerWise - NWSL Edition: Orlando Championship Celebration

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Barbra Banda has shut the door on the 2024 NWSL season with her winning goal on Saturday night. David & Jordan were both in KC for an incredible weekend of festivities. From the skills challenge, to the stadium, and of course the breakfast sandwiches they break it all down. And of course they dig into the game how Orlando got over the line, what it means, and what Washington's future could hold.Soccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

SoccerWise is back championship style. NWSL season is in the books. David Goss and Jordan Angeli with you. Wearing the matching t-shirts. We are full, kitted out, ready to go. We got to take a team photo where we're all like, you know, we got two lines. It's just the two of us, though. So we'll be a very sad team photo.

We did take a photo in person, though, this weekend because we were together in Kansas City. Not a lot of time together. We were both very busy in separate ways. You were busier than me, as you should be, because you were calling the Skills Challenge, which is a lot of fun. And we're going to talk all about it. But it was great to see you. And it was a great weekend.

Yeah, it was really good to see you too, Goss. And just to be at a stadium too. I think one of the things that we both miss working in this environment is you're not often in a stadium anymore. So to be there for the championship was so much fun. And as you said, we got to connect with a lot of people that we don't normally see. We were bebopping around the city of Kansas City, which is cool. I like Kansas City. Especially, I liked it, especially on Saturday and Sunday when it was really nice out.

Friday was a little rough. It was a little chilly, but for the most part, yeah, really good championship weekend. It was, of course, a triumphant one for Orlando. They've got a parade coming up in a couple hours in downtown Orlando. It's going to be the first ever championship parade in the city of Orlando, which is pretty special. The city beautiful. Is that what they go by? Yeah.

I don't know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The city beautiful. Is that what they go by? Yeah. I don't know. Oh. I don't know a ton about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The city beautiful. Kansas City, I think, is the city of fountains. I really appreciate their logo. It's like has little water and fountains coming out, which I was a big fan of. But we're going to break down the game.

We're going to talk about all our thoughts, what it means big picture for these two clubs specifically, the future of the league, which is very exciting. We got a lot of news over the course of this week, as you always do around a championship. Some around potential expansion coming up during a couple cities that maybe we've heard of. I wish I hadn't gotten rid of our four Denver lower third that I wrote. I'll just make another one in a moment. Denver, Cincinnati, and Cleveland, the three announced by Jessica Berman, the commissioner

at the press conference before the game. And just epic moments across the weekend. So we're going to take you into our experiences and all of that. But as you said, let's start with Kansas City because Kansas City was the host and it was like this really cool event. And this has happened a couple of times, especially in the soccer world in North America, where it's like still newer where the stadium is becomes a star or the the supporters groups become stars and the atmosphere and like it's not just about the teams and the games uh cbkc stadium was always going to be that i've been to kansas city four or five times in my life mainly for soccer things as you said great city i've never had a bad time but i have a new take okay my new take is kansas city is the

u.s capital of breakfast sandwiches there are so many good breakfast sandwiches across the city of kansas name the places so messenger as i've talked about on this show with ibis bakery which is phenomenal um we went to a place called mildred's on our last day. I got a steamed egg sandwich. Oh. So it's like, it stays. I went there to grab a coffee on my last day too. What time were you? Was that Sunday?

Yeah. What time were you there? We left for the airport around 11, 1030, maybe around 930, 10. Okay. I think I just left. I just missed you. I was there around 11, 15. That's so funny.

Yeah, it is. It is not the biggest city in the world. No, it's not. But it is a great one. And I went to a place called Succotash, which was awesome. It's kind of, they call themselves a brunchinette. And it's kind of like old school diner, but more hipster versions. And it was all good.

I'm going to add one to the list. Billy's Grocery. I think it's Billy's Grocery. I went there twice, two days in a row because I loved it so much. It says it's like an Australian inspired place, which, you know, the Aussies love their breakfast food. They're brekkie. And I got these Turkish eggs both times.

And they have all these gluten free, a lot of their baked goods. And they have a baguette that's gluten-free so like i got to have bread with my eggs and it was the place is delicious kristen hamilton and um actually introduced me to it when i visited kansas city earlier this year one of the players on the current and it was a really good recommendation because i went back twice so next time you're there you got to go check it out. And adding another Australian bakery, Banksy is also very good. And I went in and hung out with the owner for like 30 minutes.

I don't know why. And I was like, how many Australian in Kansas City? And she's like, that's a good story. And she told me the full story. Is she on the interview this week? Is that the interview? She is not on the interview, but potentially she could be. We could add more people if we want to. So you accept my premise then i i am feeling it i'm feeling it i think that they low-key like you

wouldn't expect it but man they they knocked it out of the park when it came to i think it's like big coffee culture because they have so many coffee shops so at that point you're starting to get a ratio that at some point a few of them have to be good uh and that's my take new yorkers will yell at me because they'll be like bagels which bagels are different yeah that's not a sandwich that's a bagel sandwich yes and the best breakfast sandwich in the world is a bodega you know egg and cheese on a roll for two dollars that's a different conversation as well but as a pure city kansas city stands strong and it was an awesome experience there overall um We are going to get into the game. We're going to talk about the skills challenge as well,

which you were a part of. But one of the things about the city was how in love they are with the KC current. I had not been there since the team had rebranded and since the stadium had been built. So for me coming into it, you know, you're excited about a championship, but without the home team, you don't know what the vibe is going to be. And you step off the plane and it's banners in the airport. Yeah.

Every single one of those places I just named had a KC current flag up or a KC current sticker. And the ones that had flags up, it wasn't like in a line with chiefs and royals. It was like a KC current spot. The streetcar is wrapped that runs down the middle of the city. All the bus panels, all that type of stuff. Like you feel the existence of the team in the city. And I think that's a really special moment for NWSL that like that team owns and dominates their market. And there's merch for sale at the airport when you get there too. So things like that, that I think really make it feel like this town has accepted the Kansas City Current as they

should. Wow. They are really building something great there with the new stadium, with the quality of the team. But sometimes you don't see that reflected in the community and it is really reflected in everything that they do. you ride the streetcar because i didn't i wish i would have i rode it the last time i was there i don't actually think we got we like walked the same street every time but as you said the weather was so nice yeah it was really and coming from miami i was stoked friday all the complaints about the cold i was like no jacket half the day i was like freeze me i want to feel frozen and then the sun was out that was the big thing it was like cold and sunny which is my ideal

weather and so we ended up like planning trips to take the streetcar and then you get on the street and you're like no i'll just walk why not um so i did not get on it but apparently it's free and all public transit is free in the city of kansas city so you don't have to have a ticket ever you can just get on the bus or get on the streetcar um there's a ton of like teal out spray painted on all the sidewalk all over the place as well that you like wander past and everyone who we got into an uber with or bartenders you know people working different things um said are you here for the game, they all knew the game was happening. Yes. And they all knew about KC's season.

But that was the part that was a slight disconnect for me. There was less like, I think if you go, I've never been to a Super Bowl, so I don't know. But if you go into a market for a Super Bowl, everyone's talking about the Super Bowl. They all were talking about the stadium and their pride for their team and how annoyed they were that their team lost. And there was less like, oh, you have to like talking about the championship specifically,

which I think is the one tough part when it is a neutral site and why it would have been absolutely bonkers if KC had made it. And the game was great. And we'll talk about that and all that. But I think you could feel that one little gap when you were in the city and in market. Neutral site was, I always have mixed feelings about it because you give both of the teams, unless the home team ends up making it,

like if Kansas City would have made it, they would have had an advantage, right? But you give both teams the same amount of time to get wherever they need to get. And so it's not as if there's an advantage for whatever team is there. But I think it takes away from so much, right? The city being fully engaged like you just said. I think the atmosphere, it was not what you would expect from a championship game.

I was pretty disappointed that, yes, it was a sellout, but it didn't look like it was full. Yeah. Did you feel the same way? Yeah. I thought the energy in the building felt good. I thought the fans were loud that were there. I thought there was good traveling support.

Yes. But there were clearly empty seats. And there were empty seats, but the energy was not the same like when a big tackle was made it wasn't like the stadium's going crazy or they could feel the momentum switch in the state the fans just like got behind it yeah it it felt like i had a lot more time to like talk to people around me than actually watch the game, which is disappointing because you spend this whole year hyping up the biggest moment of the season, which is a championship. And you get there and it feels like, yes, it's always going to be an event, but the event should be on the field and there should

be more attention to the field. And I don't know, it didn't pull my attention as much as I thought a championship game would. And it was my first time in a while not working that game. Right. So maybe it was that, like, just a different energy for me, whereas I'm, like, fully locked in when I'm working. But, yeah, it just was, I think I was a little, I was happy to watch it back and hear how loud it sounded on the TV, which I think they did a really good job of creating the

atmosphere but it to me it didn't feel like how it looked on tv it um they miked it really well on television i think a large part of that was i think there was a ton of mics behind the goal where washington supporter section was and i'm still not sure how the spirit supporters group got the spot in the middle of the wall. How did they get that? I have no idea. And Orlando was off in the corner behind, not behind the other goal, because there is no behind that has that bar. But they were in the corner of that goal.

Do you think they colluded with the Kansas City current fans to switch tickets? Yeah, it's one of the things I thought about. So for anyone who didn't go and isn't a Kansas City fan and maybe didn't know this, but we alluded to it last week, the assumption. Most KC fans were rooting for Washington and most KC fans were trying to help Washington as much as they could.

Part of that was because they lost to Orlando. And a large part of that was Marta's reaction to the victory at CPKC Stadium before. Like, it got brought up to me multiple times. So, you can't avoid that. And I heard some people saying, like, oh, well, is it fair? It's like, well, it was Marta's fault. So, no one forced.

I think if the Marta thing hadn't happened and Orlando had won last week, I don't think KC fans would have been as venomous to it. And venomous is probably the wrong word because it wasn't like that. But I don't think KC fans would have been as venomous to it. And venomous is probably the wrong word, because it wasn't like that. But I don't think they would have been that far over. I think it would have been a bit more neutral of like, eh, we lost. It wasn't our year.

That sucks. Versus like, there was a lot of like, we are rooting for Washington in this one, and we don't want Orlando to win. So in all of that, I did think there's a pretty good chance that the supporters were organized and like swapped their tickets off. Also, Washington won first. So maybe they reached out and had already talked about it.

But it was organized in a way that felt more like the league must have had when they allocated tickets and did whatever through the clubs. It felt on purpose. The only thing that worked out for Orlando, though, is when they did then win and went and celebrated with their supporters, it was like easier because you don't have the goal in the way and they weren't so high up. And that corner post-game, post-victory, post-trophy lift was epic for that amount of time. I was thinking just to make it the same, they should have put all the Orlando supporters behind the Riverside goal. Because it's not very many seats but if you could pack people in there I think it would have been it's only one row I think

technically of seats oh was it only one maybe two I think and then it's standing room where we were standing yeah um yeah I was just thinking like that could have been they could have at least blocked that off and then you would have had goal and goal. Which is what they did at Audi Field two years ago, which is what they did in San Diego last year. Yeah, I don't know. There was clearly Kansas City fans rooting for the Spirit. I saw a sign that was like, beware, following Orlando players. And it was like a player flopping.

There was a person behind me continuing to like say, oh, it's the end of the game. Watch out. Orlando is going to just be on the floor the whole time. You know, the Kansas City contingent knew what they were getting with this Orlando team or what they were going to expect. And they weren't going to root for them. And that's probably why it felt the way it felt in the stadium when the goal got

scored right if Washington had won yeah and the KC fans that were supporting them maybe had gotten loud with it yeah you are right that probably would have shifted things now you sort of mentioned on the neutral site side some of the sporting reasons of like fairness equal all that type of stuff um to me I think the reason you end up with a neutral site is probably a lot of like off-field business reasons, which is you have more time to build the atmosphere around the market. So you have more time to plan events, you know, work with partners. Which is why the Super Bowl is in a neutral site. Exactly.

A Super Bowl is a multi-year build. It's a bid like an Olympics, and it's built out then for years where you have partners doing their own things in the market and the league doing whatever they need to do as well. And I understand all of that and all of that has a ton of value. To me, though, the product should come first and the better game is going to be in the better atmosphere and the better atmosphere should win out and so if you tell me we can't do the same award dinners and lunches and all these types of stuff that's unfortunate and that's where you start to bring in all-star games or something else tentpole to say like what else can we plan and maybe that's where commissioner cup shifts and now commissioner cup becomes a

neutral site of last year's two winners they play every july in a game and that's sort of your all-star week where you build stuff around or maybe you do a special game where the rematch of last year's championship is always july 4th weekend in one market you know then you it goes to the winner's market and you build it out there. Whatever it is, you can do something like that that's separate from the championship so that the championship is the craziest atmosphere that you can have. And this swell moment for the league and for the team. Because while Orlando is going to have this great parade, and I'm really excited,

imagine if they had sold out the building and had a week of media in market and had everyone there and had the away team come and they're in their hotel and people are outside cheering all that type of stuff i think that to me is like the biggest thing and logistically it may not be possible right either yet because cpkc stadium is the only one that you know the nwsl team owns for their own purpose which is why they were awarded it also if casey had made and was home, they had earned it because they spent $250 million to build a building.

And like, that's what gets you is the chance to host a championship. I skimmed through the standings and looked at it for next year. And really, you have, for the most part, NWSL teams sharing with MLS teams. And that would have been the issue for Orlando. Orlando hosted a playoff game that they sold out yesterday. I don't know if the field can host back-to-back games. And so you get yourself into a bind, right? Gotham shares a building, Houston shares a building,

Angel City, Bay, all of these. If the MLS season were to happen the same as it did this year, if NWSL had shifted somehow and got the championship one week earlier it would be during the FIFA international break when MLS doesn't play and that's like a pretty doable thing especially coming out of a year now where you don't have an Olympics yeah but you don't have to have a couple weeks yeah and that MLS break I think is two full weekends long so you could you have space there to fit it in.

And you would be in a really tough spot if San Diego or Seattle made it because they share with multiple tenants, one college football, the other NFL. And that's probably one of the reasons it won't happen alongside the logistics of trying to plan a game one week in advance when you don't know where you're going to go. I would like to see it, though. And I think it would be really fun. And I think it would be really cool. Let's talk about what we did see in Kansas City. And let's start with the Skills Challenge. You called it.

It was the first for broadcast in NWSL history. It happened on Friday night. And it broadcast on Sunday on CBS, on big CBS, right after the NFL games. I was there in the crowd and you were there working. Take us behind the scenes a little bit. Your experience and your thoughts sort of of how it all went out. It was interesting. I think whenever you do something for the first time, you can't really go look at old footage, right?

I did. I was able to look at the skills challenge from last year, but it was just like an in-person event. So a lot of it, the cool part was like, we were the first people to do that. So we kind of got to make it our own. I thought that overall the players looked like they had a really good time. They also looked like they were freezing cold and made it a little difficult for a while with, um, them all wearing their jackets over the color of their shirts. The same color with no numbers?

Yes. Yeah. That was a little confusing. But it was cool. We got to be out there to do our Open, and then we were in – there is an academy training facility right behind that turf field, and we were in the gym of that just like uh two four monitors set up so we each had two different camera angles to look out myself and kylan mills who was the play-by-play

we had our status extraordinaire jen cooper next to us thank goodness because she was keeping the score for us um because our graphics didn't work the whole time we were calling the the game something happened in the truck which was unfortunate but if we didn't have Jen Cooper we would have to have like done a lot of work in post-production but thank goodness we did and um yeah it was really fun I think I think the skills were overall pretty good I would have liked to see Goss skills were overall pretty good. I would have liked to see Goss and I want to know what you would have liked to see, but I would have liked to see a crossing and finishing exhibit where, you know, you play the ball in the air and you get a chance

to side volley it or bike it or hit it off the half volley i think that would have been a more interesting showcase of skills i think the passing drill the gauntlet had you know a little i understood the the take but um as it progressed and people started getting strategy it was it was just really hard to be successful so um i would have liked to see crossing and finishing. What would you have preferred? The gauntlet drill is the classic training drill where your coach designs a drill to try and get all the players to learn a thing. And you always have one player on the team who spends the whole time trying to figure out the drill rather than figure out the skill. And it's like the whole point is to spread the field.

So we're going to put two goals and, you know, put goals in eight corners. You can score on any. And you've got the one player who always cherry picks on one side and wins. And you're like, okay, yeah, I mean, it's problem solving, which is part of what we're trying to learn. And that's what the gauntlet thing felt like. But what I liked was having both sets of players on the field. Because MLS has a skills challenge and like very clearly a key part of it is there's never going to be physical engagement so that no one

can hurt each other whatever it is the reasoning and so you lose a little bit of competition where this was like you had players tackling and sliding and all that type of stuff and I think it was Sarah Gordon who sort of outsmarted everyone and snuck a five goal in. Yeah, but she also didn't touch the ball ever inside the circle, which you had to receive it in the circle. And on the broadcast, I was like, I don't think I think you have to touch it in the circle. Like, OK, I guess that counts. I asked that question in the crowd and none of us knew. Yeah. So it was a good start i think yeah and uh i would love to see at one time maybe a trick shot or trick juggle or like something like that that they can like

work on and then everyone it's sort of like your dunk contest yes yeah um because we it's tough to do in soccer we never really see it but because one of the things that skills challenge i have now learned from being around a couple and actually technically doing one in MLS because I was one time the guinea pig before it started. They're not things you do. Yeah. And it's shooting a three point shot off a rack is more similar to the skills challenge skills to soccer. And even then players say, well, i've been practicing for this so like even with the three points all the time a hundred percent they but they practice like that exact

amount of shots in that time so they don't get tired and whatever you have players here coming out of a playoff into a skills challenge with like weird things to do and so as you said takes them a little while to figure it out but they have to like do it on the fly which is like high pressure and kind of intense but the personalities were awesome yeah so inside the building sammy muis was hosting she did a phenomenal job like keeping it all together and moving it along but the players like took over and were so fun and so engaged in it and they kept stealing the mic and um michelle aloosi was like the superstar of the whole thing. Just like took the mic and was like, this is my time to now talk to the crowd. And so she was fantastic.

What, Kate Delfava was the one that went in goal at one point. Made the save. Try calling that when they actually skipped a player. So they skipped around, like a half of a round. So actually one team shot twice in a row. And I think it was the black team. They ended up winning. It was just like a lot of it was confusing. actually one team shot twice in a row. And I think it was the black team. They ended up winning. It was just like a lot of it was confusing, but that also made it really fun

because the players were like, all right, we're going in goal. And the goalkeepers wanted to shoot. So it added a little bit, something different to this skills challenge that we weren't really expecting. Yeah, but it was a fun thing to go out and do. I think it's like a good part of the weekend of here are the events that are going on. Come, you know, enjoy it and be engaged. And I left right after because it was cold. And but I saw like videos that the player stayed and signed everyone's, you know, jerseys and all that type of stuff. And so I think a lot of that was really fun. And as you said year so improvements to come um as it goes forward all right let's dig into the game now cbkc stadium my first time there awesome atmosphere

great setup i took the shuttle bus from a brewery because someone told me i could do that and it was great and the pre-match um festivities outside the stadium were awesome i was there two years ago in audi field and like it felt night and day. Yeah. Just in the two year shift. There was a concert out there. There was a stage, a ton of people signing. Like you're like, okay, there'll be players there to take pictures.

It was Temwa Shawinga. No way. Yeah. And like a lot of big time players that were like taking photos with fans and like at these activations, you're like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. The MVP is here. Wow. As well as like a bunch of other of the players most of the ones that were at the skills challenge as well so I thought that was really cool the fans seemed really into it it

was packed um and it was a cool way to then go into the stadium and then you get into the game and you get to the game and I get to my seat pull out the starting lineup look at everything and it's pretty much what you'd expect except maybe the one change for Washington. McKenna Morris inserted into the starting lineup in place of Stainbrook in this one. And otherwise, I think it's the 11s you would expect from these two teams. Washington came out, and I think the move was let's go try and get the goal. And we talked about it last week and that was my hope for Washington was don't try and sit in to absorb the game go out and try and get it

early because you don't have the crowd behind you for the 95th minute equalizer go try and win it early and then level in settle in and that's what Washington tried to do and I think they deserve credit for being brave and trying to push the game in a big moment and I thought the move worked in which you saw Lacey Santos be the second six or eight alongside Hal Hirschfeld and Washington was all over Orlando they opening 10-15 minutes I thought it's it didn't settle until like maybe that time right 10? 10 to even 25. I thought from 10 to 25, it was you thought the Washington spirit were going to create a chance.

Yeah. And really good work from them because one of the things that I remember we talked about last week is we were most intrigued about the midfield. How was the midfield shape going to look? How were these two teams going to play against each other? Because in all reality,

there should have been an advantage for Washington. But in the last game against Orlando, it was Orlando who dominated the midfield. And so this little tactical shift that you had just mentioned of bringing in McKenna Morris, having Lacey Santos at times play next to Hal Hirschfeld defensively, but mostly in the press, she was high. It pushed her all the way up next to actually hatch and when Washington was building in moments too it was actually an inverted triangle so there were two tens and a lone six and I thought that worked really well because if the ball was turned over that was what would creating that high press counter pressing moments for Washington really smart move for Jonah Geraldo and the spirit squad because that's where they got killed the two sixes or two eights for for

the Orlando pride crushed them in the last game because they weren't getting pressure quick enough to them so they just flipped the script and said hey we're going to go to higher tens with Morris and Santos I thought it worked really well. It allowed them to be on the front foot. They put pressure on Orlando. They didn't let Orlando play out from goal kicks. We're creating turnover after turnover. And I think that this is where probably you were probably thinking the same thing. Like is Orlando going to get a run to play goal? This is where their best is in defensive to offensive transitions. And it felt like it was setting up perfectly for them to finally find that little bit of success

in the attacking third that they needed. But gosh, we got through the whole first half and they did not have one shot on goal. I was shocked when I saw that up on the big screen towards halftime. Yeah, Marta had a chance that Banda creates in transition, like you said, around the 35th minute. It's the first shot on goal of the whole thing. And as you said, Orlando couldn't really get a ton of possession. They couldn't progress the ball.

And that first 10, 15 minutes, all those almost Washington chances were counterpress, counterpress, counterpress. I mean, there was a bunch of moments and the stats end up coming out. They had 26 shots. I think half those were blocked. And they weren't, a lot of them were not shots that you thought you were going to get away. It was, you're in a tough spot. You don't really know what to do.

Let me just put my head down and strike it. Let's see if something happens. But they had so many numbers high that it was okay because all the deflections fell to them. But I thought Washington, to their credit, were also very clean in that first moment where they then didn't just put their head down and strike it a second time. We saw like Lacey Santos, a ball pops out to her,

quick ball out wide to Kruger's feet, and you're playing again and you're moving again. And I thought Washington was pretty creative in some of the angles they took where they tried to cross and Trini Rodman floating on the far post a little bit Kowase coming in on the other side on the far post trying to be a threat it was all there but as you said for Orlando it was like okay how are they going to manage this and there's a moment I didn't write down the exact time where Marta drops in on one of their goal kicks and dribbles like five people and yeah and Morehouse plays her into

the right half space bypassing Washington's first line so Washington had gone 4-2-4 into the press and they had four players up top and then they had their two center mids matching against Angelina and who am I forgetting here Hayley McCutcheon and McCutcheon yes which I think she did a really good job but I think that doesn't surprise me that you said that because I don't think she was on the ball much. Like she didn't have the impact that we normally see. In a like I had the ball, she was more impactful in how am I managing the space.

So continue, but I'm not sure. And so then Marta drops in because Marta's the extra player and she picks up the ball. And as you said, she ends up going nowhere. She beats five players and just recycles possession but it's at midfield now and it's not out of their own third and that would come back to haunt them on the eventual goal as it came but Orlando started to adapt they started to like find their space and they started to figure it out and then on the goal Barbara Banda gets the orlando's able to play out again into that midfield space

banda gets played out into the open field and like i think she said at halftime once i saw the ball played i knew i was gonna make a play like that's that's where barbara banda lives and one of the problems confidence well one of the problems over the course of the end of the regular season was teams were playing so far off not allowing that and chicago didn't do it in the first game and it reopened all the wounds kansas city tried to but had to chase the game and so now you've got two games back to back where banda's getting goals and feeling confident and back on her best game and you get an opportunity here and it's not an easy one with the ball down the line and don't worry we will talk about the ref and we'll talk about fouls and all of that but the ball down the line

Banda gets to the end line Cruyff's back on Esme Morgan and then wrong foots Kingsbury at the near post to make it 1-0 and put them ahead runs over to the corner pointing at the Orlando badge on the shirt and like the crowd as you said sort of dies on them except for the huge pocket of orlando fans that's in the corner and was behind the goal where i was standing the other goal uh where they were going crazy as well i think it was a ton of the the club staff that had chartered in and then had to get back the next day for that playoff game that they were hosting and it's like it's the best player on the field you could argue it's the best player on the field. You could argue it's the best player in the league. Some would argue it's the best player in the world.

Put on the big stage with an opportunity, and there's probably no one in the world that can stop her. And Washington had done such a good job of, there's two ways that you can stop Orlando, right? Like, you take away the space in behind and don't let Vanda do that, or you stop it at the source. And Washington said, we're going to stop it at the source. We're not going to let the back line play out. And the couple of times that they played out through the press and they were able to break

that press from the spirit, they were effective. And I think that that is just shows you that in a championship game, it is the smallest of details, right? If one pressing structure is broken down, you're going to have, you're going to get Emily Sams on the ball for two more seconds and she's going to find the right pass. You're going to get Angelina in a space where she can find a little bit of space. We'll talk about it and find the right pass, which is into the space in beyond. I thought that the Morgan, Morgan Banda matchup was more mismatched than McKeown versus Banda.

I thought McKeown was excellent versus Banda the whole entire game. And so this is just, Banda is extraordinary. And she went through a little bit of a slump, but when you're feeling confident as a forward, of course she's going to say that. Of course she's going to say, I knew that I could make something out of this because she's gonna beat the player with pace she's in control and that little Cruyff like Ronaldo move she does inside the box to bring it back to her left foot off puts the defender and unfortunately for me I felt like Aubrey Kingsbury could have had this.

And watching it back, if she didn't reset her feet, if she kept her feet where they originally were, which is not what you're taught as a goalkeeper, right? Because she's setting her feet so she can dive to the near post and get a better traction. If she keeps her foot there, Goss, her left foot, it stops the ball. It goes right where her foot came from. Like, I can't even say a second.

It was like less than a half a second before it goes right through that little space. Great shot by Banda. Really well. Like, she gets all the credit, but it just hurts my heart for Kingsbury because she was there. She was in the right spot, and she's trying to do the right thing. And, like, ugh, I hate that. There's a lot that happens in this play.

On the goalkeeping side, since you went there, I don't understand goalkeepers. I always avoid them as human beings. So I texted a goalkeeper friend for their thoughts, and they sort of said what you said. But the big thing was, Kingsbury sets her feet after the ball is struck and after the ball is moving towards her and therefore doesn't have enough time to react. And if you are in proper position and proper timing, you're supposed to set as they go to strike

so that you can react as the ball starts to move. And so Kingsbury is late on the play. That's like the main cardinal sin for Kingsbury because we always have the cliche of can't get beat to the near post. That's kind of like five steps past the main cardinal sin for Kingsbury is because we always have the cliche of like can't get beat to the near post. That's kind of like five steps past the main reason. And the issue was for Kingsbury was she's late to the play. I think partially it's because of Allie Watt's run and Adriana's run. Because there is a player in Watt on the PK spot, and Banda is not in the best shooting position.

No. Which is why it's frustrating on the one side that she scored. I think part of the thought process for Kingsbury was, I need to be ready to come across the face of goal if she squares this. Yeah. Esme Morgan said in the postgame, I was aware of Banda's ability to draw penalty kicks in the box when i went and didn't challenge her at on the end line and i think she also said or her ability to put a cross in or play it across i want to say first credit to barbara banda who over the course of this year has been multifaceted enough in her game that those two players have to think about that right because if this because if this is a true pure I can't think right now of

like a pure goal scorer who never gives that up Morgan and Kingsbury can overplay for the shot knowing that that's the only thing that's coming that hasn't been Banda's game so I think that's a huge credit to Banda and when I talk about pressure with soccer players we always think of like high pressing. But pressure is just feeling like you can't make a mistake because the other player will take advantage. And Banda does that because she has such great balance and such great touch and such great vision that you don't feel like you have a spot to cheat. And you don't feel like, oh, I know I can jump her right foot because she's uncomfortable with that. Or I can push her left because that'll force her out of the game.

That's what Banda does to you. And Morgan makes the wrong calculus here because you're not going to give up. Even if you are going to give up a penalty, you can't let Barbara Banda dribble into the box untouched. And you should not be worried about a ball across. That's not your problem. Yeah. Like you need to lock down the best attacker on the field.

If your teammates should be covering runners outside of that and as you said i thought this built where i thought morgan got isolated with banda more times than washington would have liked because as you said they pressed high and when they didn't get that ball it came out and i think it was just five times morgan was going to make one mistake and banda if she took advantage was going to get you and i think that's what ended up happening on this yeah and it these are these are the moments that make or break championships and this is why we wanted to see these two teams play against each other right is it is it's never like they i don't know it's the slimmest of margins and we saw the slimmest of margin in this right morgan keeps her to the to the end line maybe she blocks the shot maybe the cross goes past

everybody maybe kingsbury saves it because she's in the right spot like those are all the maybes but because banda was that much better than morgan in that moment it ends up being a goal. Let's talk about the foul. So the debate on all of this is Orlando wins the ball back. I didn't think Washington was very brave in their passing out of the back over the first half. I thought they were scared to play into Santos and Hirschfeld's feet under pressure, and so they kept playing long and turning it over. So that happens. Washington resets. Orlando cycles possession. They go back to Morehouse. Washington pushes their lineup.

And then the ball's clipped into Angelina, who's one-on-one with Lacey Santos. Angelina uses two hands, pushes off of Lacey Santos. Santos throws her hands up saying, I just got fouled. No call made. And Angelina plays the ball up the line. And then Banda's off and running. As Banda said, once I saw it, I knew where I was. The debate was whether or not that foul should have brought the goal back. It wasn't called in real time, so now you go back to VAR. It is the attacking phase of play that VAR can touch on. My belief is the pass into the goal scorer who then dribbles and scores is part of the attacking phase of play. It shouldn't matter where on the field that is.

So it doesn't, it should not matter that it's on your own side. Christina Unkle on the broadcast, refereeing expert and referee, said, oh, I should have written this down because I do not remember the exact wording and language. The foul did not rise to the level of a foul that would have been reviewable. And so therefore it wasn't recommended for a review and it wasn't called back. Do you have a strong feeling here? I just don't understand what that line is.

Because what is the line of a foul that is reviewable? Does it have to be a red card? Because that's the only thing that's reviewable for VAR. Do you know what I mean? Which it shouldn't be. It shouldn't be. Right. VAR should be only a review for a foul for a red card

if it's its own sequence as just the foul. Totally. As part of the goal, I don't think there is a limit. And as to the part of that, I don't understand. If it affects the buildup to possession and playing goal, a foul is a foul and it shouldn't matter the extreme nature of the foul or not. I think it's a foul because of this. She had two hands pushing out.

If it was the closest arm of Angelina, which is her right arm, and she goes to block with a bent elbow and then extends because santos falls away because santos was on the right wrong side and she was recovering she wasn't in a good position yes because of that i think that's a pretty natural play but because angelina goes to like both arms across the body push regardless of people think it went into into santos's face santos is about nine inches shorter than angelina it's gonna probably go in her face not not because yeah it was not a dangerous play there no just because that's where your arm is i think it was a foul and because angelina also gets an assist on this which yeah Barbara Banda dribbled a long time

I don't I don't know come on get a defensive midfielder an assist Jordan I love Angelina I really do love Angelina so I'll give it to her but going back to my argument that's why I think it's a foul I don't think the foul like I don't know what the line is that they're talking about what uncle's talking about being like a egregious foul it was enough in that to call a foul in a game that was pretty chippy and had a lot um a lot of little fouls that were getting called I felt like one the referee should at least have gone to the monitor to look at it and seen it for herself and two I was surprised that that didn't happen so I am I'm with the spirit fans I think that this should have been

looked at and should have potentially been a foul so yeah there's a lot going on with all of this the the the hand to the face you said I agree with of like that's where Lacey Santos is that's what it is I think it doesn't matter again the extremity of the foul or how extreme the foul is if it affects the goal I think where the VAR got stuck was the clear and obvious error part where the two hands extended is a clear foul, I think Lacey Santos lets her team down by pulling up early. Fall! Fall down! She says, I got fouled and throws her hands up.

And, you know, cliche coaching, play through the whistle. Play through the whistle is like 80% if you don't get the whistle, keep playing. But it's also 20% make the foul obvious. Totally. And no one does this better than Trinity Rodman, who has done it over the course of this playoffs to great success for her team, even when there's minimal contact. And Lacey Santos, if she tries to play through that,

it becomes very obvious that she got thrown down by a two-handed push. And what's tough for the referee is, I think the referee is shielded live on the play. So the referee can't see the hands, and the AR is on the other side of the midfield line because the AR split midfield. Or chasing the offside line. Right.

Yeah, chasing the last player to set the offside line. And that's where you need the VAR to come in. But once you don't call it on the field, is it a clear and obvious error? And I know you said like, you'd love to see them look at it. But one of my complaints over the course of this playoffs,

and I think we saw it in the Portland-Gotham game, was VARs overcompensating for the moment and saying, this is a big goal, go look at it, or a big call, which is not how it's supposed to work. Okay. Yeah, I agree. It's supposed to be clear and obvious.

I think I like that explanation too. I like what you're saying there because then it's actually affecting the game more. Yes. So it's just hard, right? Yes. Because it is a big game and it is a moment that will now be controversial and take away from Orlando winning, which I think Orlando should have won the whole thing. Like they should.

They were the best team all year. And I am happy for them that they won, that they got the double, that they did all this. But it just stinks that it is on this, because if that gets called back, I think they create another chance. Right. But then they didn't have to because the game went as it went. Yep. John Rollins, who's in the chat, Orlando fan, congratulations. Sounds like you were at the game and in KC as well, so I hope you had a good time. Said Washington had plenty of chances to equalize. You can't leave it. And honestly, from what I heard from Washington fans and the players, I don't really think they ended up putting it on the ref.

Like, it's this weird dichotomy of, like, it was a foul and it should have been called, but it's not why we lost, even though we lost 1-0. Because I think over the course of the game and the season, I think Orlando proved that they had done enough. Last thing on the goal that I want to mention, which is Marta's dropping in once again so when the ball gets recycled to Morehouse Angelina and McCutcheon are split and Lacey Santos is on the right side with McCutcheon Hal Hirschfeld's on the left side of the midfield with Angelina Marta drops into midfield and Hal Hirschfeld if you go back and watch it sees her on the right side of the center midfield circle and retreats back to go mark Marta because it's Marta. And like, that's not the only reason why she's in a dangerous area,

but I don't know that every player gets marked that way in that moment. And Hal Hersfeld then tells Lacey Santos to come over and mark Angelina. And that's why Angelina is open for Morehouse to clip the ball. And that's why Santos is the wrong side of her as she then goes up the field, where if Santos had been technically goal side, even though it's 75 yards away, and Angelina pushes off, she would have pushed Santos towards her. Like, it would have been a completely different play. And so it's credit to Marta and her IQ. It's credit to the fact that Marta this year is not the same Marta as before,

but has gravity and matters on the field in ways that other players don't matter and affects the geography of the play. And it's a credit to Morehouse because I thought she was really good at skipping that first line of confrontation and playing into the second level. And at that point, it made Washington scramble. And she doesn't often have to use her feet the way that she did in this game. And I think we've talked about so many other goalkeepers this year, Mandy Haught, AKB in Gotham, about how good they are playing through pressure and being the release of that pressure valve. Like, hey, I can pick out a pass. And Morehouse was able to show that off in the biggest game, which is a credit to her that she had it in her bag of tricks the whole entire time just didn't have to use it as

much as she normally does and didn't need to be asked sometimes goalies it's like okay it's the 55th minute we can't play out please clip it it's like within 10 minutes 15 minutes Morehouse was like this is where the space is and I'm gonna go hit it and she did it a few times which was really really impressive so we get get the one zero lead. Orlando takes the lead. And then maybe the biggest moment for the rest of the game right after where Ashley Hatch hits the post on a header. I think it was McKenna Morris played the corner kick in.

Hatch hits the post. It bounced down. And Mickey Owen then puts the rebound over the crossbar. And it would have been like the goal within five minutes response. And then you'd be probably going into the locker room at 1-1. And I think that changes the whole game. And that's, like you said, where this game was just that inch was the margin. It was like just a hairline of difference.

And for Ashley Hatch, exactly that right like if her head is turned an inch more and she hits it with her more of her body facing the goal I think it goes in and it doesn't just go in it goes in in spectacular fashion because it was going like upper 90 perfect in the corner and that's the difference and I think Ashley Hatch probably scores that goal a lot of the times because she is so good the ball from McKenna Morris was excellent like driven easy for a player to get power on it which we saw so it was going to be more house um yeah and and with how good McKeown has been I couldn't believe she was wide open in that moment. That shocked me.

And just a little rushed there. Just a little rushed knowing that there was a big moment and she needed to get the shot off quickly and then just ends up popping it up. I don't know if I was with you at this moment, but I said, oh, I think a whistle went. Because the way Mickey Owen sort of like- Hit it.

Hit it awkwardly and it went up over the crossbar and kind of it was like a quiet emotionless moment after yeah I thought it was after a whistle that I couldn't hear because it was like not intent to score a goal yeah in the game and I think that's those she probably thought it was going in too probably yeah she probably thought the initial ball was going in in but those are the two you talk about fraction of an inch the crossbar and then if it settles for mickey on a little cleaner it's a tap in at the far post and you're at one one and i think that would have changed everything and the second half washington you know made a couple subs not maybe as many as you'd expect um They got some chances on set pieces. Hatch had another really dangerous look in the first five minutes of the second half.

Quasi had a really good header. Yeah. But they couldn't find the breakthrough. I think there's a few different reasons why. To me, the biggest feeling in the building as it happened was just it felt like Washington had reached their limit it was a team that was missing you could argue three of the five most important pieces of their spine coming into the game it has moved everyone into other positions they had played now into two extra times one penalty kick shootout they didn't have that crowd behind them as much

as Washington huffed and puffed and pushed it just didn't feel like it was going to happen to me I want to I agree with you but on the on the flip side I think we would be remiss not to talk about how excellent Orlando is in crossing situations and in in this come compact defense that they were playing in the first half in moments, but also in this second half and in the biggest difference because Washington was pushing so much that Orlando at times when they did break out, they actually relieved a little bit more pressure through Marta, through Yates at the end of the game. But when you're sitting in two really good compact blocks of four,

it is difficult to break down. And Washington was trying everything that they could. I think they got a little, they pressed a little too much. And when they did that, they came compact. They came narrow and they weren't utilizing the width of the field because Kruger and Carl at times were inside the width of the 18 trying to take up that center lane that and then Kwasi and Rodman were also narrow so it was like you you weren't stretching out what was already compact and I felt like they needed to have a little bit more patience in those moments to stretch these this Orlando line back but for, it all has to do with the leadership of Emily Sams and Kylie Strom. In the first half, I was sitting row one, which like, wow. Fancy. I was like court side at

a basketball game. And in the first half, I was on the side, the river side. So Orlando was defending that. And I was watching Strom and Sam's and just their when they would pass players off when they would let the midfielders run through and pick them up their communication with those two in front of them that box between Angelina McCutcheon Strom and Sam's was excellent and they do such a good job of understanding when to when to step with the player when to let them go I just thought that their organization set the tone for the success that this team had all season. But it's specifically in this game when Washington played with so many numbers high in both halves. Like they were trying to exploit that space between the midfield line and the back line.

And they really couldn't do that without a player tracking back and a player stepping to get pressure on them yeah and as we said the number of shots they blocked right so like being in front of that player not not guessing not trying to take risks knowing you had numbers around you I thought one of the things Strom did really well was also in supporting Abella when she got pulled higher to defend against Rodman yeah and Abella got called for the yellow card kind of early and the slide tackle from behind that i think maybe was clean but abella's out on that island and we've talked about it all postseason of the teams that have these attacking threats on the wings and how do you support and how do you help i thought strom had the right balance of being over there and supporting also knowing that sams can defend 1v1 against hatch when you need, to at least push the ball back.

And that was the key for them was just to never let the breakout happen. And then once they were able to reset their numbers and get, you know, numbers behind the ball, they were phenomenal. Yeah. And shout out to Allie Watt, who was unbelievable defensively. There's a battle between her and Kuasi early on that she steals it. And then Kuasi fouls uh watt which is like the classic attacking player gets frustrated and then doesn't really want to defend wants to

win it back immediately and from that moment on kuasi wanted to take watt on 1v1 anytime they were in the same space and watt held the fort every time including um at some point uh had to like fill in at right back because of injury for like 90 seconds to two minutes and made two tackles in that whole sequence and was able to continue to like help the team and then made the run on the goal as well and this is also why Orlando should have won is because their depth was excellent and the the confidence that the the depth of their bench had yeah all season long, it did not matter who started that game.

If Summer Yates started that game instead of Allie Watt, we would have been like, okay, we get it. But Allie Watt hadn't started for a number of games and then in the playoffs starts again, and she's excellent. And I think that this shows you a glimpse inside what this culture was that Marta says made her feel young again. There is a competitive drive. There is a trust that is evident on the field.

We are going to get it done no matter who's out there. Not to say Ali Watt isn't a starter. She totally is a starter. But sometimes she didn't start because that wasn't the game plan. And to keep a good mentality and to have your bench stay happy in moments like that when you don't know if you're starting or not each week is a lot of credit to Seb Hines, his entire staff, but the leaders on that team to keep the morale high

and know that it's for the greater good, and the greater good showed out in the championship game and really this whole run through the playoffs. And you saw with Carson Pickett, right? Yep. Traded to this team because she probably wanted to come home, was a starter in NWSL, and then had moments as a starter on this team where she was an outlet

and one of the best players on the team, was not a starter in the postseason, comes off the bench, helps them seal the victory. You know, again, throwing body in front of shots, making the plays you need to make. And as you said, it just shows the bigger picture and the top-down stuff of all the things you do to win a game like this happened in February and March and June and July.

And you build towards that, and Orlando did what they had to do. And, you know, at this point, you're talking about winning both trophies. And there's very little question mark, I think, for a team at that point when you do something like that. And we haven't seen it in, what, eight years in NWSL? This is a club that had only ever been to the— Well, 19, five. Oh, five years, right.

I was thinking 2016. North Carolina has done a lot of things that I keep having to compare back to over the course of this year because this is one of the storybook teams. Feels like eight years. It does. And it is pretty much for orlando it was 2017 the last time they were in the playoffs they lost in the first round 4-1 that time marta hadn't been back to the playoffs with this team otherwise and then they get

the win and i think i'm excited to see what the the parade looks like yeah but before we go there one thing do you think it should have been a penalty on quasi with yates falling on her at the end of the game so i was surprised how quickly play resumed yeah me too yeah um and again i have to stay consistent with my don't review just because it's a big moment but it felt like var saw it really quickly i didn't think it was a foul. I thought it was Yates trying to shield the ball, loses balance, falls back as Kowalski kind of pulls the chair away, but then does fall on Kowalski and sort of takes her down. I don't think it was a foul or a penalty.

I am with you if Yates touches the ball. She doesn't touch the ball the whole entire time. Yeah, fair. If she's falling back and she at least puts her foot out to try to clip the ball away, I think it's not a foul because it's clear then that Kwasi's moving away and the battle of two bodies against each other that were kind of keeping each other upright is evident in that moment. I think it should have at least be looked

at because because yates it's a clear battle there but then as kwasi's like trying to get by or yates i think loses balance falls on kwasi i just again am surprised it wasn't looked at it um i i i get your point which is like when you're shielding the ball, you normally have to be within a body length of the ball to be the person who's like in possession. Otherwise, technically, you're just pushing someone on the field and you can't like box random players out on a soccer field. And that is that is a part that I didn't really look at cleanly, which is like, yeah, if somebody isn't really shielding and is just pushing on Kwasi and then knocks Kwasi down, then that could be a foul. And that's like sort of the danger that Washington's pushing at you. Cause you, you have to make a lot of actions in and around your box,

which is the most dangerous portion of the game. And that's, but Orlando was able to manage the line cleanly. We'll talk about Washington at the end, but let's do Orlando first. Like, what do you make now of all of this? They win the title, they win the shield, the undefe do Orlando first. Like, what do you make now of all of this? They win

the title, they win the shield, the undefeated streak, the shutout streak, all the things they did. What is this 2024 Orlando team going to be? One of the best in NWSL history, for sure. If not up there, I think that North Carolina team in 2019 will be up there with them, but they were excellent. The number of shutouts that they had, defensively what they could do, how many different ways they could execute a game plan and look like a different team. They were adaptable. They were moldable. They had depth. They scored a ton of goals. I think just because it's now and it's relevant, I'd have to go back and watch that 19 North Carolina team. But to me, this is the best team we've seen in a very long time. And I think because of where the league is at, the level at which the league is at, I would put them as the

best team we've seen in NWSL. They are so good in a variety of ways. What an excellent season. What a turnaround. What a mentality and a culture. And it just feels like this was built over a couple of years, and we were pretty lucky to be able to witness a lot of those streaks that they had, the unbeaten streak, the shutouts that they did, the goals that they scored with Barbara Banda and Marta and Adriana. And I mean, the number of

players scoring goals on this team was ridiculous. So yeah, I'd put them as the best team we've seen in NWSL. Yeah, I think there's so many ways to describe it all and talk about it. But actually, one of the things that I'll remember, I think, is post shield after that drop the way they then bounce back to win it which was like there was a segment of the summer where a lot where it felt like momentum and like they were getting the 75th minute winners and they were winning a ton of games by one goal and hanging on for ties. And you're like, okay, this is the team in form. And when they lost form, they then got back to the mountaintop. And that's, to me, one of the definitions of a good team.

It's like you yourself are a great team. And when you find your level in play, you can then go out and beat everyone. And I think to beat Kansas City the way they did at home and to then beat Washington here in this setting, as you said, this is one of the best years we've ever seen out and beat everyone. And I think to beat Kansas City the way they did at home and to then beat Washington here in this setting, as you said, this is one of the best years we've ever seen in an WSL. Those are great teams that you knocked off. And that all will go into the legacy of this is one of the greatest seasons of all time. And it's probably not done.

Right. So I think that will be part of how it's sort of dictated is if Inter and Coast Stadium is sold out every week next year and this team pushes for a home playoff game again, you're not going to back-to-back win Shields. Well, that's what we saw in San Diego. If you're a top four team next year, if you make another championship run, if it's a three-year span with multiple trophies, that will change sort of the way you see it all but if none of that happens this team will be a consistent like 2019 North Carolina like 2016 like all these other the great teams that always get mentioned in anything this would be one of them because of all the things that they did and Marta that will be one of the things that's remembered about this as well she's obviously the

huge storyline finally gets a championship with this team, finally gets a playoff run, and then you just add it all up. Her mom's in the building for the first time ever since she played in the U.S. And are they like copy and paste or what? They look so much alike. Yeah. And you've got to think Orlando's like, all right, are we getting a private plane now to get every game?

This is a good luck charm. You've got to roll Orlando's like, all right, are we getting a private plane now to get every game? Like this is a good luck charm. You got to roll this forward as it goes. The postgame interview on the field, the way she played, the goal last week. Like a lot of – it sounds like she's not going out, which is a key when you mention this. Because we always – I have a sense of like putting finality on a comment like this but it's great to see her have like this shining moment that some athletes don't get in that end that they're kind of hanging on for everybody at the end of the game as the minutes were ticking away the seconds when is the whistle gonna blow I think every set of eyeballs in the stadium was on Marta

where is she well how is she going to react? What is she going to do? And she fell to her knees and pointed up to the sky, just like, honestly, because she talked about this in the post game. She was like, I know, I think God orchestrates everything when it's meant to be. And like, my mom was here and the team that this was like, she's just so grateful in this moment, a player who's won everything she is legit won everything she could win and for her this she said I waited eight years for this I waited to experience what it was like to be to play in NWSL and and win a championship and she talked about on the broadcast this is the best league in the world it is so hard and so difficult to be consistent and you could see how happy she was and you can't not be happy for Marta

and um finally finally winning and everybody's reaction of sliding to their knees and hugging her and some of those pictures of her grabbing the face of her teammates and like we did it was just it was perfect and so well deserved yeah it. Yeah, it was amazing. And then the curse on live broadcast, on national TV, on network television is very Marta as well, right? She's graduated past the rules portion of life and into the legacy space of like anyone else gets in trouble. Everyone but with Marta, you're like what what an amazing moment for marta right like that's going into the sizzle reel for cbs at the end of the year for away from uh-oh people are getting fired like that's the gravity that marta has um it was really cool in the building they had this drone show that came in and was sitting over the river and it said it was

written in the stars and i thought it was going to be something about marta specific it wasn't but it was purple colored um and that was like a really cool thing the confetti goes off as i said the orlando players all went over to the orlando section and they're playing the drums with the fans and singing and dancing and it's a lot of what marta works for seb hines has spoken a couple times about how much Orlando means to him as a city. Like he's American English, grew up in England, came here to play in Major League Soccer as a dual national, and then made his life in Orlando and coached in the academy and coached on the men's side on the reserve team. And now he's coach of the year this year. And this club, I think, isn't going away. Like all of this stuff they've built, it's new ownership.

That's the thing that is new. It's not flash flash in the pan Haley Carter put it together right it's new ownership that's committed resources and then brought in the right leaders to build it from the top down and even if Amarta decides to step away even if players choose they want to leave or any of that there is the structure in place for this to continue for a while. And you'd assume Sam's and Banda alone would keep you competitive in most seasons and most games. So it's going to be pretty cool to see that parade. I hope it is as big as the players deserve. Let's talk Washington for a second.

I said it kind of felt like they reached their limit in this game. I was a little worried coming into it as the game got closer that, you know, it was a team. I think I said it on the show last week. They've only scored one open field goal. The injuries, I think, were something that's tough to get over. And it's Saar, it's Corey Bethune, it's Andy Sullivan, but it's also Trinity Rodman. And it was also the exhaustion of all the players trying to cover all these spots. And I think you saw a lot of it with Kouassi where what you saw from Kouassi this postseason run was why they signed her.

But they didn't do it for 2024. They did it for the future. She is an incredible talent with the things you can't teach. Yes. And just needs a little more time to work on the things you can teach and they were riding that line in the final which was if kawase is able to complete one of these moments and cut inside and shoot and beat a defender you know play the ball across we're gonna score but she didn't because that's not really where her game is at yet and i think washington kind of got stuck with this is the furthest we can go and we're up against a team

that's able to has all their strength to handle it the nice thing about Washington is I feel like they sit where Orlando sat a couple of years ago but much ahead of that right they're they're building this was the first year in a project with the best coach in the world and Jonah Geraldo's and um he it's only going to get better from here they had six six rookies who contributed, not just with a lot of minutes, but with goals. They have a fairly young team. And even the players who are core members of this group, like McKeown are now in Esme Morgan. They're young.

And I think they're going to want to stay in Washington as long as possible, knowing that they are building something for the future. This Washington team is only they're going to want to stay in Washington as long as possible, knowing that they are building something for the future. This Washington team, they're going to get healthy again, and next year they're going to come back not so much of flying under the radar underneath Kansas City and Orlando who are on unbeaten streaks, and nobody's really talking about the spirit, but everybody's going to be talking about the spirit because this is a really good team,

and I think they're only going to get more tools in their toolbox next year as to different nuances and tactics that they can exploit another team with and little shifts like jonah harald does all year when we talked to him said we we're not quite speaking the same language yet in certain situations and he kept referring to that we don't speak the same language and i I think the goal shows you that, right? They weren't speaking the same language. It's a little bit of like, we're not pressing together and somebody's dropping when we need to step. And if we're not speaking the same language in those moments, it's going to fall apart. And I think that this Washington team is all going to be going in the same direction for

a number of years. Like I wouldn't, I kind of think over the next two maybe even three years we're not going to see very many changes in this spirit team only additions that are going to make it better I completely agree like this is a team this was I think it was a year too early and then you had the injuries in yeah and with Geraldo saying that, you saw the progression in the season. Like, I think in the final, if you go back and watch the soccer they were playing in May and June, it was much more transitional. It was much more direct because they had Corey Bethune and Trinity Rodman and Saar. And like, why wouldn't you?

But also they hadn't built all of the passing patterns yet. They hadn't built those connections and that understanding. And so just inside the year one it progressed now imagine you get an actual offseason you get to build the roster i also want to throw this in there i'm going to use 500 minutes as the cutoff because you had players like kuasi and lacy santos come later in the year 500 minutes is like not a lot of minutes right 500 minutes and up there are three players over the age of 30. One's your goalkeeper, which is fine in Kingsbury.

One's Casey Kruger, who's like the lone veteran. And the other one is Anna Boutel, who probably won't be back next year. She is a free agent, which I think is an interesting free agent for teams out there. And she lost her starting spot by the end of the year. And the other ones are not 28 and 29 as you said six rookies trini rodman's 22 which is like still mind-blowing yeah and absolutely absurd there is a lot to love about this team and you have to think if you're a player there it's not this year because most of the pieces are not free agents but like is that really an environment you're gonna leave with what mich Michelle Kang has built and what she invests and the ability to outside of the salary cap spend on coaches and trainer training facilities and medical trainers and doctors and all these other things that can make athletes lives better, that they can spend whatever they want outside of, you know, the umbrella of a salary cap.

Why would you not want to be a part of that especially if you're winning and you're selling out the building so yep that's what i was gonna say and their fans are great i think you walk out of this final you sort of say like i think i'm kind of happy for both teams of like washington didn't get over the line but they were there earlier than they needed to in orlando while i I think Orlando will be back for Marta's career at 38, you wanted them to get this one done so that you could ensure that you did. It was written in the stars. It absolutely was.

Speaking of stars, by the way, Barbara Banda, pretty special. MVP of the final as well. Like unbelievable performance from her. How much better can she be? Like she didn't even start this year with this team. So she's going to go through her first preseason. She had an Olympics away with Zambia. Do you think Shawinga's goal scoring record is like under threat already?

I think it could be because Banda, I don't think she adapted as well as Shawinga did throughout the year, right? After she stopped scoring, she, not that she, I don't even want to say the word irrelevant, but she didn't become as effective. I would say she wasn't as effective in games as I think she could have been in the times that she wasn't scoring. And I think under Sebs Hines, and especially Giles Barnes, who is, you know, probably working with the midfield and the forward line a little bit more as being an attacking player when he played.

He's going to figure out ways to get her more involved, and she is going to continue to evolve and continue to learn. You've got to remember, she wasn't just like Shawinga. They're not playing in as good of a league as this, and so you don't often hit a wall or hit a trial. You don't hit a trial in these other leagues. And so I think that there is a lot still to come from Barbara Banda. You score the winning goal in the final, you're going to get MVP. But I do think from the performances she had in the other two games too,

like in a way that kind of leads up to it too, right? If she doesn't have those, I don't think she feels as confident in that moment. Maybe she't get the goal it was it was a great performance and a good time for her to shine because um this Orlando team needed her and I think that a lot of the talk was is it going to be Banda is it going to be Rodman and Banda was the one who gets the most of this one and earns the MVP and she's just so humble yeah She's really humble. And it'll be interesting to see with that type of humility, how much better she can get over the next few years. And it wasn't the same experience as some of the USA players or some of the other players we saw because of the run they made. But a lot of players struggled post Olympics. A lot of players struggled with that ramp up of like playing at the highest

intensity in a tournament setting for everything. And then coming back into a league play, which of course every game matters, but it's not the same. A lot of players I think struggled with going to France and then coming back. I think for Banda, there was a lot of bullshit around the Zambia team that is like a mental load that you have to deal with and take with you. And she also went and performed. She scored four goals in a game.

Like she went and carried that team. And so it wasn't the same run that the U.S. went through where we saw. But Trini Rodman struggled post-Olympics. Mal Swanson struggled post-Olympics. Sophia Smith, like it happened to all of them. And they had a preseason to get ready for it and build into it and all that type of stuff. So even with that, yeah, I agree with you.

I think Band is only going to get better. And I think unfortunate with Rodman because I think if you look at this game and there's a million ways to break down a soccer game, but one is, like, can you get your best player in the position you want to four to five times? I think both teams did it, and Rodman physically just couldn't get them that next step. And when you watch this team at their best, she breaks that last defender.

She breaks, no, she breaks past Carrie, Carrie Bello. She's gone and she's flying and she creates a goal or an assist. And she was holding her back from the first 15 minutes on. I was going to say there was a moment in the game where she, she literally had

one of her arms on her knee and the other one on her back and she was grimacing and it wasn't shown on the broadcast but i i think she played hurt for for a while and so post game she sort of like took blame and i think some of what she was taking blame for was like forcing herself to stay out there when she couldn't perform which is not really on her that's on Yonatan Geraldez and his staff and all of that I don't really think it you know you could say Brittany Radcliffe could have come on give more energy obviously in better shape and then the question I think um Tamara Griffin and Megalenehan were talking about this on their podcast of like, is 60% of Trinity Rodman better than 100% of someone else?

Maybe. Like, that's a debatable spot. I don't know that it would have mattered because Orlando was so good and organized. And the pieces you're talking about here are not that difference maker. If Corey Bethune's healthy, and now you're talking Rose Kuasi off the bench for the last 25 minutes, or you're talking Sar healthy and Ashley Hatch off the bench for the last 25 minutes, or you're talking SAR healthy and Ashley hatch off the bench for the last 25 minutes. I think that's a different conversation as you're further up the roster

there, but a lot to love for both these clubs. So I think very exciting future, exciting for the league CPKC stadium, Orlando's parade, Washington sellouts, Gotham setting attendance records as well there's a lot to love and a lot going on and our first year covering it here at soccer wise so we're going to continue to do that i am very excited it was a lot of fun to be on the ground for this one we're going to continue to bring our regular shows over the next few weeks the u.s women going to england for one of the biggest games of the year that That one's on Saturday. So like the perfect Thanksgiving weekend soccer game.

We'll be back next week to talk about that and the Netherlands game. Any NWSL news that comes out, there's a couple of coaching openings that we'll probably get news on. We don't really know what's going to happen with no draft of how college players are coming in and when a lot of players are signing contract extension. So we'll talk about free agency as well over the next few weeks. And then I think we're going to line up some interviews to fill some of the

time around the holidays to get you guys all the coverage that you want of this league. And then we'll be back next year to do it all again and break it all down. Speaking of next year, let's close out on this one. I put a bunch of random questions in the rundown and this is the one we landed on. Where do you think the 2025 nwsl final will be we're going back to it's like going to be a neutral venue right we're just sticking

with that i mean you could choose to not say that but i think you might be wrong if you choose to do that well let's just say we want it to be a neutral venue so then we can have a live soccer wise podcast because there was a lot of those in Kansas City happening throughout the weekend so maybe that will be a goal for us in 2025. I think it will be in a warmer location. I don't know how much warmer this will be because it gets pretty cold here during the fall. I think it's going to be at Bay FC at PayPal Park in San Jose because it's a it's a great venue. It's not it's not huge, right? So you're not selling out a Snapdragon like they tried to do a couple of years ago. You could sell out this stadium and

it'd be really loud. But I think because of the big splash Bay made coming into the league this year it would make sense to me that it would be at Bay FC's stadium in San Jose yeah I think it makes a ton of sense I think when you look at leagues what they try and do we talked about Super Bowls and like if you build a new stadium you get soup like it's kind of like a guarantee I think expansion is like that partially in nwsl and mls of like oh you came in the league like okay we're gonna do this to help you grow yourself in mls or now exactly yeah right we're gonna give you this tentpole event and i think utah maybe is going to be out of luck on the weather debate between san francisco and utah i know everyone in san francisco

will be like oh microclimclimates, it's cold. It's like, all right, relax. It's not that bad. It is pretty chilly there at night in the fall, I will say. It is. It's a different chill. It's a different chill. Yes.

It is not the mountains chill that kind of settles in at a pretty even spot. But then if you get a blizzard in Utah for your championship game, that's less than ideal. Boston, I don't know what it'll be when it's around the corner that's obviously the only expansion team we do know about right now um but i think bay fc makes a ton of sense the other one i was thinking was angel city because they haven't posted that yet that's weird that they haven't hosted isn't it it is and i don't, because of the way the crowds are, it's odd that it wasn't like pushed up the list. But I wonder if they got stuck behind San Diego and then CPKC came online.

Because remember this year, this was not announced preseason. Right. This was announced during the season where it kind of feels like it was like, we have to do this. I don't know if they've ever announced it earlier though. I just like... Right, because you don't know the schedule schedule so that's part of it as well and maybe because i know in that venue at uh bemo field stadium bemo i don't know bemo they angel city isn't i don't even think

they're the second tenant i think they're like a couple down because they host a lot of events there right so maybe that has to do with it as well but that would be great and la would be wild to have a to have a final either way i mean i think bay more i think you could see probably a local team as well get in which is the cool part of travel is if bay or san diego gets in in la or angel city gets in you're driving probably getting a pretty good contingent of fans on top of the fact that it's one of the most soccer crazy cities in the world. And like,

you're going to get a great crowd anyway, and you always get stars for those teams and all that type of stuff. So those are the two that we threw in there. Although I would add Orlando. Cause I think Orlando now coming out of back to back, you know, record setting crowds shield, we'll see the parade.

They'll win. We'll see what the crowd looks like next year. New ownership group. You have your own building. Once again, even though you share it, that ownership group owns that building. So they can put that stamp on and say, you know, November 23rd is NWSL Championship, and that's what we're doing here. And the weather also sort of works out for you.

I think we're all just wanting it to be in a little bit warmer of a place. Well, not all of us. It wasn't that bad, though. I'm fine. I want that to be known. Sorry, everybody but Goss. Yes. Everyone normal.

The players who were freezing in the Skills Challenge would appreciate warmer temperatures. That part I would agree with. Also, let's get a nice heat tech sponsor for the little thin layer that you could have under all of that. There you go. I like that. All right. So with that, I think we are done here. We went long, but not as long as for the pre. But still a lot to talk about, a lot to be excited about. Incredible season in the books.

Congratulations once again to the Orlando fans. Thank you all for joining us. Thank you all for following along with us. Thank you to all of you who said hi and everything else around this and are part of this adventure. And we will talk to you again very, very soon.