SoccerWise - NWSL Edition: Record Transfer Window + Buy/Sell Turnaround Teams

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

Huge weekend of NWSL action but the big question who is for real and who is a pretender. Jordan & David dig into the hot teams below the playoff lines to gauge who can keep it up. And a lot of the playoff push has been driven by massive signings as NWSL spent over $1.1million in the latest window what does this mean, and what could be next step for the league? 8:42 New CBA Implications 19:50 NWSL Spending Power On Display In Summer Transfer Window 25:18 Buying Or Selling Utah, Bay & Seattle 28:06 Utah Royals 35:26 Seattle Reign 41:20 Bay Fc 43:46 Washington VS North Carolina Who Has More Championship Credentials 49:40 KC Current Panic Meter 56:03 Mailbag Question On Orlando Pride 1:01:24 2024 Ballon d'Or nominees Soccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

What's up everybody welcome back to soccer wise NWSL Wednesdays here David Goss Jordan Angeli ready to break it all down and do the thing Jordan looking very stylish today if you are watching or watching live or later if you are listening you can go to our youtube page or you can go to twitter or you can go to twitch uh to watch us any day 2 p.m eastern time or go back and watch it later on uh it kind of has detroit detroit tigers vibes. I've thought that since the beginning. Yeah. And now we have another logo in USL Super League in the Brooklyn team that looks very eerily similar too. But I've got a Bay FC hat on.

And they sent us a full box of gear when I was at Galazo. And so this was the hat that I picked. I think I did a pretty good job i like this hat yeah nice little rope detail it's stylish but also comfy not too big of a brim you know all the things i look for in a hat i uh you you have a pretty long list yeah yeah i wear a lot of hats um i also wear a lot of hats. And my whole thing with hats is can I care the least about this because I will sweat through it and ruin it and make it disposable. And so I go away from all the things you just said because I don't want to feel nervous about wearing it. You don't want to ruin it.

Exactly. And I almost bought a hat at the U.S. Open last week that looked like that with the rope and all of that and i was looking for it and i couldn't find the one i wanted and i was like you know what it'll be okay i don't need those are probably like 60 bucks though 100 i would be actually probably shocked if it was just 60 bucks um but shout out to taylor fritz and francis tiafoe for making it to the semi-final there will be an American male in the U.S. Open final for the first time in 20 years. I'm clearly excited about that. A lot of tennis knowledge there. Yeah, but we've got a lot of NWSL stuff to be excited about.

So we are pumped to get back into the kitchen and cook up something special here. If you haven't listened yet, we did a special episode last Wednesday about the new NWSL CBA, which we'll talk about in a moment. So we had Susie Cirillo on, as well as Tori Huston for that one, head of the NWSL PA, as well as an employment lawyer

to talk about some of the details. We're going to keep covering that for the rest of this year because I think it's a really interesting story. It's a unique one. It's special. And there are so many different angles because it affects so many different people. But it was a huge moment. So if you haven't listened to that episode, you can go back and listen to it. It's in our feed, on our pages, everywhere that you go and look for our show and find it. And if you haven't

subscribed yet, subscribe to our Patreon. You can get our NWSL depth charts there. You can get access to our Discord, to our mailbag, which I didn't do a mailbag episode this week because of Labor Day. So we've got two mailbag questions that we've inserted into this show that we will get to.

And that's where you can interact with us and hang out and talk about the games and talk about everything that's going on. We are going to talk about what it turns out has been a record-setting transfer window for the nwsl it has thankfully given me some assurance with the insanity i feel like i had been going through updating the depth charts and moving players and and this by the way what we're going to talk about does not, I think, include trades. And I feel like I've been like, do I not know how to keep up?

And it felt really warm and comforting to be like, oh, no, a lot has happened over the last two months in the NWSL transfer window. Yeah, no, a lot of those big trades, big longer term deals happened or were happening before that got announced. And then, of course, now that there is free agency, we're seeing a lot more players signed to a little bit longer deals. And a lot of players have signed deals just now over the last few days. So it has been really interesting. It's something to keep up with because free agency also is now open for players who will be free agents. And this obviously is a whole new world that we were delving into and figuring it out. So we're going to talk about that. We've got some questions,

as I said, in the mailbag, I am going to offer you some deals by yourself. If you want to on a few NWSL teams that are trying to make some late runs. We've got a panic meter to go through in the Midwest. I think everyone can probably figure out what team I'm talking about there. And Ballon d'Or, we have the finalists that have been announced. So we will talk about some of the names on that list coming up.

But first, I have to put out there that you have an opportunity to own your own soccer team this is not a bonzi scheme i am not selling you a product from outside of the trunk of my car minnesota aurora which i think most people know but if you don't it's a uslw club that has sold out every single game they've ever played based in Minneapolis. Now we're getting into danger zones because St. Paul, Minneapolis. So I'm going to say based in the Twin Cities. There you go. I was going to say, just keep it back.

Keep it back. Stay as safe as you can. They play their games at the Vikings training facility. I think it's a 5,000-person stadium. As I said, they've sold out every game. Their games are broadcast on local TV. They've been one of the best teams making the playoffs since they've existed. They were community funded to start, and now they've opened up for their second round of funding to help the club continue to grow.

I believe they added a reserve team this year, and they're looking to do more and more. I am going to buy into this because I think this is the coolest thing I could spend my money on. Being like, oh, that team? Yeah, I'm rooting for them because that's my team like what what would be better I mean you've played pro sports so you have some vibes on that but I don't really get that no it's cool it's a very Green Bay Packers idea which is interesting from the they're playing at the Minnesota Vikings stadium but I think this is a really good way to build a team, and it's unique. We've seen it done with Oakland Roots as well and building a team that way. But I like that they're opening up this again. And I think you said it starts at $100 to be a part of this.

So it's pretty – I feel like for a lot of people, it's a place where they could invest and say, hey, for $100, I want to be an owner of a team. And then it just builds a fan base, not only within Minnesota, but like you, Goss, out east as well. You can get owners from wherever, rooting for Minnesota Aurora. Everyone in my household has a Minnesota Aurora shirt already. So we're already on the pathway. I'm a big fan of the Twin Cities. I always have a great time

when i go there it is the farthest place to get to but i always have a good time once you only go there in the summer i'm guessing yes did were you questioning my ability to have a good time based off that well i just feel like in the winter it must be a very different experience i like the winter i like the calm of the winter. I like snow. As long as it's not vacation, that's where you're going. Yeah. As long as it's not brown snow, I'm good. Yeah. It's city snow where I start. It's once it falls that that's where I cut off. But before that, I like it. And so, yes, all of these games are played in the summer. So that helps. And all the times I have been to Minnesota has been the summer as well. So that also helps. But it's a great city, a great place, you obviously

don't have to like go to be a part of this, you can just help support this. Because I think when you talk about community, we talk about soccer community. And that's much larger than just a physical place or being connected to one spot. It's the reason we do this show. It's the reason all of us, I think, especially online are finding people to talk to about these things are passionate about that you can't always find in person all the time. So this is a really cool opportunity. I will continue to push this while it is still open. We might have someone on from the club as well to talk about it because as you said, where else is an opportunity like this? So this is really cool and something to keep up on. Before we get into the full show, we have a mailbag question here.

It is about the NWSL CBA, which, as I said, we did a special episode on last week. I did the two interviews. You were not on with me. Do you have anything you want to talk about or has been rattling around in your brain about the CBA before we dig into this mailbag question? I think I'd just start by saying it was really big for the players because so much now of the power lies in their hands. So I think congratulations on that. I think there's still a lot of unknowns about how this is actually going to work, especially when you totally eliminate something that United States knows very well, like a draft. That's how we have built teams through all different sports for a number of years. And

I'm sad about the draft personally. The draft for me was a really, it's one of the best days of my life. And I am sad that players don't get to experience that, especially now working the last few drafts, how big of a show it was that they put on. So I'm sad. I'm sad about that. And I think it takes away opportunities like for a player like Allie Setnor.

I don't think Allie Setnor would have chosen to go to Utah. I don't think she would have if there was free agency, right? But now she goes to Utah as the number one pick. And she is one of the stars of the rookie class. She is the centerpiece to this Utah team, what they have built themselves around. And that is because Utah chose her. And I think there is a little bit of that. I don't know if it's nostalgia or just willingness to build something different that I wonder if that will start to lose itself

without a draft. I wonder if the parody in the league will lose itself a little bit because talent won't. Maybe more people will be prone to go to bigger named clubs. But there's a lot of really good things as well that comes with it. And a lot of talk, Gus. I don't know if anybody's talked about this. There is a lot of talk about doing things with what other countries do around the world international talk bringing international players in it just is very feeling like international has a big influence on what's going forward and it makes me think is that going to be something that the NWSL implement going forward to bring more of these international stars? Do they change their schedule?

I don't know. I just think a lot of the writing is on the wall with the wording that they chose because there's a lot of international talk in there. There is a lot of international talk. Yes, there is. And I said it, I think, on this show when the first rumors reports came out about it of like being able to deny trades. You're probably just creating an internal transfer market because the odds going forward that both players that both teams want are both going to OK trades is probably pretty low so i think at a minimum you're already moving in that direction of like player for player trades are probably a thing of the past for the most part and it just becomes what we are seeing now a lot of them which is like these allocation money trades and whatever it is and maybe that shifts to just pure straight money and that becomes what things

are like in other places it It also does feel like it has opened up the gap to say, international players will want to come here because they can control their own destiny. They won't get traded, they get to choose where they want to live. And yes, I think when we talked with with Tori, and she talked at the beginning of the interview about what the NWSLPA does, not just the the cba it was a lot about helping foreign players find their way in this league and find their feet and understand the nuances of nwsl that is a lot foreign player facing so it does feel like there are ways to try and help this league sort of fit in to that global pyramid now one of the things we have learned is nwsl though

is a trendsetter in the space they are not chasing as much i think as some people thought so then nwsl does have the ability if they want to i think not to shift everyone else's calendar but to say like we exist as a strong entity in this way and other people do have to adjust around us i want to ask you this question though before we dig in here because the question is about the trades you mentioned ali sentner and sort of that move you were a high level soccer player coming out of college we've been asked this question a ton if i'm ali sentner and i look at things am i really gonna sign with gotham and like i understand players have pure confidence in themselves but am i gonna sign with a team and say yeah i'll just start over rose lavelle and build my way and am i gonna sign with portland

and start over jesse fleming like at where do you think the line will be for college players of like i want guaranteed playing time versus big markets or higher flashy teams. I don't know. I think we'll have to learn as it starts to unfold. Come, I don't know when this is going to happen. Next year? When they're done, the December, like I don't know when these players can actually sign with other teams and how that will be announced. Or if there'll be like a rookie signing day. I don't, I I don't know I don't know what it's going to look like and I think that's

one of the things that when I think about the CBA there's just a lot of unknowns about the future and what it's going to look like and just changes I'm not saying they're good or I'm not saying they're bad yeah I'm just saying there's a lot of changes. So I think there will be some players who recognize I'm not going to play there. So I'm going to go to a place that I can play. But I also think there's going to be players in general, maybe older players too, who realize like, maybe I don't want to live in California and pay half of my salary in taxes. I'd rather live in Houston and not pay state income tax and be able to afford a house. Like those are the realistic things that I think of

that are going to be beneficial to some of these players to be able to choose in, not just about the team you're playing for, but the lifestyle you want as well. Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. I think it's going to be fascinating. I was asked this question right out the gate and i was like it's all going to be about the recruiting and the pitch um like it is going to fall on these teams to be able to sell someone on their project on their layout on the atmosphere the training all those things going forward it

goes to this question from up the loons who says will slash why won't the nwsl cba's rule that players have to approve a trade just lead to shorter contracts for players it seems the club would see their inability to have full control and moving a player if things change slash don't work out as a liability and would want to keep contracts nimble to ensure they don't quote get stuck with a player who doesn't want to move says in parentheses obviously these are athletes and they're going to want to keep contracts nimble to ensure they don't, quote, get stuck with a player who doesn't want to move. Says in parentheses, obviously, these are athletes and they're going to want to be somewhere they're playing and have a good relationship. But I can't think of a lot of legal agreements that are based on that would be super uncool to move. I have an obvious answer. Do you want to go first? I think it's twofold, right?

Like if you have a player that you want to invest in and you know that they want to be there for multi-years, I think we're seeing that right now. I can think off the top of my head, two players in Houston who have signed multi-year. Olivieri and Nielsen just recently re-signed for multi-years. I think that there is, okay,

we want to build our squad around these players. I think we will potentially see more like shorter contracts, year contracts, even because after that year, you just become a free agent. Again, there's no obligation, um,

for a club or player. And maybe that's when players are moving and saying, I don't know if this is going to be a good fit, but I want to give it a try the thing that is interesting about the new rules is the guaranteed contracts so if you do sign a four-year deal i again i don't know how this actually works um and i am somebody who got injured in one of my in WPS, I got injured and it it affected everything else that I had beyond that. So say if somebody gets injured in their second year, are you paying four years guaranteed for this player, even though they're they're never able to step on the field? I think

there should be some kind of compensation there. But I think those are the thoughts that players, coaches, GMs, everybody's going to be thinking of. How can we be able to build a team for long term, but not get into too many multi-year contracts to know that there is some fluidity within building our squad year after year? Yeah, I completely understand that. I think the part of the question where I go to, and this is something that I think we're all guilty of in every sport, is like creating these scenarios where it's like, oh, well, everything will be this way, while ignoring the reality of, well, you're going to have to get those players to sign those contracts.

And there is free agency. So, yeah, if you're offering everyone a one-year deal, they're going to go somewhere else. They could go somewhere else where it's offering them less for more guaranteed years. Like that's now all become part of the conversation, the negotiation, and what I just said, which is the recruiting pitch. So you can try and do that. My assumption will be you will be unsuccessful a decent amount of the time.

And so there'll be some deals where it's beneficial for both parties to be short term right a player coming off an injury thinks that they're going to get a better bump the year after or they're not quite sure where they want to be where they're trying to break into the national team a national team whatever it is like those are all things that can happen i think you will see the long-term contracts. You mentioned the ones in Houston. We saw Mal Swanson just sign a long-term extension. We'll be the core players. Like you will say, I want my spine locked up. And then you're going to move other pieces in and out of that.

And players might earn their way into longer contracts after that. But yes, you're not going to sign every player to a four and five year deal. But you are going to want to be able to guarantee like Chicago can that Mal Swanson is going to be there. So we know Julia Grosso fits with her and we can pitch to Grosso. Come play with Mal Swanson. Like those are the things that the teams are going to have to figure out. I think it's an interesting question i don't think it i don't think 100 anything will happen in any direction because we're talking about individuals where some will want security some will want flexibility

from players point of view and from clubs point of view and i think you're going to see change and variance in all of that um going forward in talking about the international window and the other clubs around the world and everything going on, FIFA put out an official report coming from the most recent transfer window, which closed. They call it the mid-year transfer window, detailing as much as they can, which I think we are in some level of gray space, all of the transfers that occurred around the world and the trends that are going on. NWSL and the US, which I'm pretty sure all of this money is NWSL. Maybe there's some Super League money in here, but at a very low level.

NWSL in total spent $1.14 million over the course of the mid-year transfer window alone. It is a 287.9% increase from last year in the same window. It was 128 total moves with 37 outgoing and 128, sorry, coming in. And it was the third highest spending league in the world for this window. England was by far the most, almost a million more than NWSL. Spain was just ahead of NWSL. And then there's almost a million dollar gap in spending to fourth, which is Italy, Germany, and France all kind of close together. The increase, the 287% is the fourth most in the world.

I don't know that the other ones on this list even really had transfers so we're talking about india morocco brazil and wales so i don't know what that means totally but like this goes to the conversation that we've been having of the olympics was a big boon for nwsl tory came on the show and talked about the failure at the world cup last year and sort of the need that nWSL approached the NWSL PA to say things aren't going in the right direction. How do we change things or how do we fix things? And I think this is a sign of the intent that we have seen where these are high

level big time signings coming into NWSL and competing for players with the biggest clubs in the world. It was an eye opener, the World Cup in 2023, how much talent is in the world. It was an eye-opener, the World Cup in 2023, how much talent is in the world right now. And I think that leads to that conversation that you just said. I think it leads to the increase in international spots that we saw this year from five to seven. And then you add two more teams, new teams into that. So we brought in a plethora of new international players. And I think in order for NWSL to continue to be a top league or be the best league in the world, which I know they want to do and have that claim, you're going to have to have more of these players. You're going to have to spend money. And I think it's a good sign that we're seeing that play out, that we are seeing a

player from Morocco playing with the Chicago Red Stars now, Ludmila choosing NWSL because the Brazilians are having really good success here. Things like that, that we're now seeing players choose NWSL because of some of these changes that have happened, probably a lot to do with the CBA as well. I that is really I think those numbers put it into a good like you can grasp those a little bit better and say, all right, NWSL is in a good space. Can we catch up with England and Spain? Spain seems like it's right there. So and the parity in those leagues is much

less. So if you can continue to spend a little bit more to bring the players that you want into this league, this league is going to quickly become easily the best league in the world. And of course, the league added two clubs as well as two international spots per club. So that changed some of this. But there's no guarantee when you do that, that those teams are going to spend money or that they're going to use those international spots per club so that changed some of this but there's no guarantee when you do that that those teams are going to spend money or that they're going to use those international spots because you don't have to um and so i think it's positive to see especially to qt a little bit longer maybe than we'd like um for all of the clubs to be pushing and i think the expectation is that boston comes in at a high level as well and whoever else it is alongside them

to only increase this and add to this. Because remember, this is a total spend. England and Spain have more clubs than NWSL. So if you take this number and you say you're expanded to 20 teams in the future, that's not immediate. This number could go up and is probably competitive with England. The other thing to remember, which is actually fascinating to me is that this is the off season for uefa clubs so this is like we're building our roster for this season where this is mid-season for nwsl

and yet nwsl spent less and made less moves in comparison in January than these other clubs did, which I'm very curious about. My assumption is... Well, that tells me the international. That, to me, says people don't want to leave midseason. They want to leave when they have a fresh start after their season's over. So that hints a little bit more, too, at the international schedule. Yeah, absolutely. Although I do wonder if some of it is like when moves are actually stated because NWSL's window is open longer than these other leagues. So like maybe players were moving February and March and didn't get announced properly or whatever. But in general, I think that's happening. I just feel like a lot of these things, these signs to me, the speak in the CBA and the the announcement there the the number of signings

you're getting in this window compared to the other window just yeah just tell me that there's there's something to look at there yeah it'll be really interesting um going forward it has been a really interesting season so far we are not even into like the full on playoff race, but we are getting close. Kind of. And let's talk about it. Let's dig into it. So I pulled this NWSL forum table tweet from Chris Henderson at WOSO Soccer on Twitter, who covers college soccer better than anyone.

And as well, there's some NWSL coverage in there. It was the NWSL forum table for points in the last five matches which is a tough scale right now because you're talking about two games post summer cup and three games pre-summer cup but it brought together the teams that i think are in the same conversations that i wanted to bring up here so it worked out perfectly for me so therefore i chose to use it because that's what we do um let's start with the teams that are on the bubble or trying to move up who you feel is for real who you are buying and who you are less sold by and who you are selling should we tell people what the what the form table looks like right now i'm about to do you're about

to oh gosh we're going straight into it okay so first place is not shockingly orlando they've picked up 15 points in their last five matches which is that's perfect of the available points in that span second is north carolina on 12 points third is washington spirit on 10 points and then fourth is a tie between se and Bay FC on nine points. Behind that is Utah Royals on eight. And then Gotham sits on seven. And then you go down the rest of it. All the teams we're going to talk about are in that top half.

So I'm going to stop there because I think everyone has a limit to how many numbers. They can hear me count. Don't worry. I'm going to start reading schedules off soon. So we'll get there. So Utah sitting right now, as I said, eight points in the last five matches, just behind Seattle and Bay on nine points. Those are the three teams I want to key on.

Utah, 3-1 win over Houston this weekend. Seattle, 3-2 come from behind victory at Louisville this weekend. And then Bay FC, after losing to Utah last week, go on the road and smoke the Portland Thorns in Portland. 3-1. They led 2-0 in 18 minutes. We're never equalized in this game. And then they get the 3-1 victory to steady themselves right on the edge of the playoff line.

Three huge results. Three really fun matches over the course of this weekend. Which one are you sold on the most? Which one are you buying the most? Sorry, where would you put your money here? Which one from a performance point of view right now do you feel the best about? I'm buying Utah. I knew you were going to buy Utah. I even put them at the top, even though they're the lowest in the standings.

Because you watched the game on Friday and you heard me say, I think this Utah team, now their path to the playoffs is difficult, like with the number of points that they have to have. But I think they're going to push. And I don't think a lot of teams in NWSL right now want to play Utah

because they have found some consistency. I've been very adamant all year that they have built themselves on some really good defensive principles. And even when they were losing games, they weren't losing by a lot under Amy Rodriguez. And with the change at head coach and bringing in Kunatz as an interim. He has instilled a couple of different principles that I think have done really well. They're now playing out of a double pivot. There's a little bit more fluidity in how the front five work,

but they've still been good defensively. So I like Utah. They bring in, they probably have one of the best summer transfers out of anybody. They bring in Chloe Lacoste, who is a, I'm going to get after you winger. Like she wants to dribble at you. They bring in Mina Tanaka, who is intellectually top notch, understands how to break teams down. Tactics. Can play in really any of those front four positions for them. And then they bring in Zornoza, who is a Spanish international. Won the World Cup. Played for Real Madrid for years and years and years.

And they have her playing next to Ana Tejada, who is a center back. Now playing as a defensive midfielder. So you can be a little bit more aggressive in sending your outside backs and sending numbers forward because you know, in all reality, you have three center backs trying to stop the play from progressing in the opposite direction. I like Utah.

They are starting to click. Their front players are all scoring goals. I'm buying what Utah is cooking up up i feel very strongly about this too okay still wait this weekend i will learn more okay houston and houston on the road and bay at home is not the pure test for this group but the fixes to some of the problems that existed mainly the attack and the goal scoring feels real um i'm curious to watch the defending against kansas city this weekend yeah because houston did get behind the back line when it was direct balls especially from wide areas then into central areas but from deep not crosses and that's where you saw mandy hot getting

a little trouble on the goal conceded and a few opportunities where there was some duels in 50 50s that goalkeeper had to make or center back recovering del favo was good once again but had to be showing us a different test in moments like that than anyone else in nwsl let me ask you this one because i feel the love for tanaka i get it i'm there ali sentnor obviously not available right now because she's with the u20s who lost to spain by the way they'll pay play morocco tonight so we're not going to talk about it because by the time that game happens our show will then be useless so we're not going to do that but tanakaaka started as the quote unquote 10 in this game because Centenor is not there.

Slid out wide, laid on to finish it off. I kind of expected her to be the nine with the best group in here. Where would you put her in this Utah side when everyone's available? I think I would put her out wide. Because the way that they play with Griffiths as the right back, they want her to be uber aggressive and getting forward. And she has the pace and she has the fitness to be able to do that. So I think with Tanaka as the right winger, she can tuck inside and be a dual 10,

which you didn't see as much with Chloe Lacasse as a winger because she's a little bit more of a traditional winger. She'll come inside, but she can't break through a back line in that second 10 spot the way that Tanaka can. And then that gives you Setonor in a spot where over Summer Cup and the first game coming back, you really saw her excel. I think this is our spot this is where she should be playing especially with this Utah team so it puts them both in a place where they're playing right behind the midfield line in front of the back line and then they have players to be able to dish and distribute to to combine at the top of the box I think originally I had her I said she said she would play in the nine or the 10 Tanaka.

But I do think Betfair is right there. She's the only player, she has over four expected goals on the year and has not scored a goal. To me, it just feels like she gets one in NWSL and it's going to be different. And I think with those two players playing right behind her or in front of her, whichever way you want to look at it, there's only going to be once like it's going to come eventually that goal. Okay. Cause that's sort of the,

I assume the battle there is between Moynihan and Betford being on the field. Right. I assume in this scenario, you'd throw Chloe Lacoste on the left. Lacoste has been playing on the right. Moynihan has been been playing on the left but you were saying play tanaka on the right uh oh yeah so i think lacoste would be right now would be a player that comes off the bench yeah which i think that would be really impactful for her with how quick she is over 10 yards like that is a defender's nightmare coming in at the 75th minute yeah i think that's fair and um you also have she's sort of working her way into the team she wasn't a

full-time starter for arsenal either exactly it's gonna take some time there i'm i can accept that i would say with the way sentinel is kind of a nine at times and Tanaka feels very comfortable in the areas you just talked about. I would like to see that interchange. I wonder if you lose an outlet because you don't have one player permanently high. Yeah. It would be more like what we saw Casey do at times where Bia was floating out or Dabinia now isn't really a true nine and you have some of the

movement there, but Casey is struggling. So maybe that is an example of what not to do i think it would be fascinating though to see that because i thought with obviously when sentinel comes back there's way less responsibility on our shoulders because there's more talent on the team there's more help uh you talked about on the broadcast i thought really interestingly of like not just talent but experience like older players and players who have been there before not in NWSL but in the game and like Ali Center doesn't have to step on the field and feel like if it's not me no one's doing it um and we'll have a midfield

partner in Zornosa who is must watch for a deep line midfielder is like must watch the outlet pass on the third goal yeah this is everything you want in this league nice well if you how about those three teams for you or if you're buying someone who are you buying so i like utah i like watching them play i would probably pick to watch them play over all of them i have been impressed by seattle over the course of this more it is it is not straightforward and i think i still have to see everyone healthy it really as much as it hurts utah to lose sentnor i think bugs is a huge loss for seattle with the way she performed in that first game, the athleticism you have there, the ability to chase over the top and close space in front of you.

But I watched a Seattle team that battled through moments that they haven't battled through this year of like pure belief that they should win games and that the expectations are higher. You saw the emotion from Laura Harvey last week. You have a game this week in which you're playing on the road against louisville there's roughly a two-hour rain delay going into the game so your game time gets pushed back two hours you concede twice from corner kicks in the first half and you come back and get a win and you have a player now because you have flexibility you have mondesir and g come off the bench and i thought they were the two most dangerous players on the field for the most part in

this game especially for seattle and they both came in late to run at tired defenders and help sort of you could see g had read the game and came in and was like this is where the gaps are i'm gonna live in this little i'm gonna live in this little right-hand space, and I'm going to continue to get balls into my feet and pull the back line apart. So I think a lot of this stuff is real for Seattle in terms of the fight for this. Also, I did a schedule read,

and they have the easiest schedule of the three teams left. Okay, well, that helps. In their last eight games, they play five non-playoff teams they play houston twice uh which isn't bad and they play angel city twice which gets them into a playoff conversation if that's who they're chasing they also play utah uh is the other team that's outside the postseason uh that they face off against but they finished the last game of the season against orlando which is tasty and fascinating. So I like a lot of this team.

Oh, and I didn't even mention how, by the way, I thought how it was great against Louisville. You saw her at her best. And that's the other piece of this is ground coverage and 50, 50 tackling in midfield. That wasn't there.

That allowed fish lock to create a little bit and be a little bit freer. All the things you talked about for Utah of like we have the defensive core so you can take risks in the attacking third. That feels realer now for Seattle than it did. Yeah. I see what you're saying about Seattle. And I really like Serna Gorsovich. I don't think we've seen her do really everything that she can do. But man, she does not miss on a cross.

Her crosses are dimes. Just landing right on the head of Heidema. So if Jordan Heidema doesn't score a lot of goals through the end of this season, I'm going to be disappointed in that. Because I know the surface is going to be there, especially from that right side. The thing that I thought is interesting about Seattle right now is they're building differently they're bringing Quinn between or on the outside of the center back so that's allowing now both outside backs to get high

they've chosen Shea Holmes to play as an outside back utilizing her left foot which she is a left footed player so I think that that's an interesting shift. I just, I think Quinn lacks in the distribution that you could see in those moments from a just fish lock. So I wonder if they maybe go how fish lock and then G as the 10, that would be to me more convincing about what Seattle is going to do as a more dominant threat forward. And I think if you do that, then you can start a player like Mondesir from the start because you have better distribution going forward. Quinn, lateral passes, I think has that down. A lot of the moments where Louisville came in transition back at Seattle's back line was just a misplayed pass forward from Quinn.

That's picked off. I think just a little too telescope like televised. I'm going to go here. So I would like it. Fish lock. You have the, the grit of fish lock, but also distribution,

the grit of how sitting. And then you have G who can just do whatever G wants because that's G. So I get what you're saying. I just am not, I'm not as sold. I'm not do whatever G wants because that's G. So I get what you're saying. I just am not, I'm not as sold. I'm not as sold. I think that's fair. I think I watched the game against Louisville thinking that they played the group because it was a tough road game.

And like the group you're talking about is the one I expect to see. And so I watched them go on the road and get a win at Louisville thinking there's another step to come from this side. Yeah, that's a good point. And so that's where it's like it makes sense to me. The block is built and they're just about to put the next one up. And Mondesir, like, clearly is not ready to play 90 minutes. And so they're not taking that risk. And we've seen different teams try and handle this in different ways of new players and players coming out of preseason and all of that but you

see a individual threat in Monteserro that didn't exist on this team and doesn't really exist when she's not on the field so it feels like there's more steps for this group um and I think they should be pretty excited uh about what's going on. Neither of us bought Bay FC, so I assume we are selling Bay FC. Oh, by the way, reminder, Seattle made one trade just now. Sorry, wearing that hat. Hannah Glass brought in from Kansas City. Another left-back option.

We'll see what happens there. It reminded me because Bay FC just made a trade. Penelope Hawking brought in from chicago red stars as a center forward option for this group they didn't need the help up top they got the 3-1 win as we said against portland it's a massive victory for this team a really strong result abby doll kemper the opening goal on her debut for her hometown club. There were some pretty strong vibes in the opening 20 minutes of this game. Yeah, it was full force. They were saying, all right, we're going to go back to what we did at the beginning of the year,

which is press higher up the field, be a little bit, not looser with our defensive, but more focused on how we attack as opposed to how we defend. And I think that was the big pivot in the middle of the season for Bay when they were scoring a lot of goals to when they weren't. And it felt like they had gone back to what they were doing at the beginning of the year. I think this Hawking trade is really intriguing because I think about Penelope Hawking and her ability to drive with the ball between lines. But then how do you mix that in with Tess Bode, with Kundan Anji, with Asisa Ushwala, who we just haven't seen the best of Asisa yet.

So I don't know where Penelope Hawking will play. Will she play as a 10? Will she play as a winger coming inside and playing next to Ty Spodey at times? I don't know. It feels like an interesting move that I look forward to hopefully seeing this weekend against racing. It is a big game for this Bay team against racing because if they're going to be in this playoff race, they're going to have to get a result there. I mentioned Utah. It's like a six pointer. Yeah.

Utah are going to Kansas city. That is like a whole different test in its own realm. And that's going to be a huge game. And Seattle are going to angel city, which is a six pointer as well. And a massive game for this Seattle team, angel city trying to keep the results up as we get through to the second half of the season so that's the buy and sell below the playoff line let's jump above the playoff line because i mentioned that form table and second

place was north carolina with 12 and third place was washington spirit with 10 washington of course um getting the big victory over Kansas City last week. That moved them to second in the standings. North Carolina got the big victory this week against Kansas City. That moved them. Which we should say, three losses in a row for Kansas City. We're going to say it in a moment because we've got it as our next segment is what's the worry mark?

Oh, yeah, the worries. The worries. I'm too far ahead. You're excited, and I appreciate it. So of these two teams, North Carolina and Washington, who would you buy? Who would you sell based off the performances you've seen so far?

Oh, this one's hard because I've always liked the way North Carolina plays. I think it is replicable. It's understandable. I think players on the field understand what spaces need to be occupied at what moment in order to be successful going forward. And it feels like over the last few months, Sean Nahas has simplified it by actually not

even bringing in an outside back to shift centrally. They're really just starting out of a three back and playing up that way with Denny Weatherholt, just starting as a makeshift outside back, but really a central midfielder. So I like North Carolina. I've always liked them. I think I would buy if I knew when Caroline was going to be on the field. And I think that's the biggest thing right now that sets me to go for Washington

is Caroline's status because everybody knows that this team is going to have a different dynamic to them when Caroline's back on the field they're not only just going to be able to possess but they're going to be able to pull you out into a high press and then let Caroline go into the space behind the back line of opponents in a quick breakout and I think that that's what they don't really have right now to the effect that they will with Caroline. So I'm going to buy Washington. I like what they have built.

I think in our earlier episode I expressed I think they're center back still. I want there to be an upped level there to not give away silly goals. But when you're looking at them going forward, now with Kwasi, Ule Sar is constantly in the right place to put the ball away. Does she always put the ball away? Not always. I think she could have a few more goals. And then Tridany Rodman.

They looked a little different without Corey Bethune. So you wonder if that's just a little bit of rest post-Olympics and not a cross-country trip from her. But this Washington team can sit very comfortably and defend and say, come through us. And if you can't break through us with good possession, we're going to pick a ball off and score a goal in transition. They can also build and beat you through really good passing and movements and overloads in the channels. They got a lot going on, and I'm buying Washington.

I like where they're at right now. So Washington, the 1-1 draw in the last game against San Diego. They had 1.6 XG in that game and only scored the one goal on the flip side. San Diego 0.5, they end in a 1-1 draw. It then spurred the conversation of is this team a finishing team or not? If you don't follow Expected Own Goals on Twitter, you should. At XOwnGoals, it's the account that's doing all the NWSL work out of American Soccer Analysis. The account put out that Washington's 2024 goal conversion rate of 13% sits tied for 7th out of 112 NWSL team season since the league began um on top of that if you look solely at minutes played with an even score line when both teams are theoretically trying to score basically not garbage time washington's conversion rate is tied for for best out of 100 out of 86 nwsl team seasons

since 2016 it is one of those moments where you're like, no, I get you, but I watched the game and that's not what I'm seeing. Yeah. And Douglas Reyes, Saron in the chat right now says the maddening only saw experience. Like,

yeah, I get it. I hear it from Washington fans. I watched the games and you're like, yeah, they could be up three zero, but at the same time, they are second in the league. The numbers are saying that they are finishing their opportunities and they are creating a ton of opportunities. we are this is what we do this is how we create chances I think to me Sar unquestionably in this group is a factor their ability to press with her at the point their ability to counter press

with her in this team their ability on transition is because of the fluidity of the front three or four whoever's in the group Lacey Santos at the crossbar in this game early on as well and that's all without Croy Bethune as you mentioned so I agree with you on Washington for North Carolina's sake as you said Carolyn is going to be a huge part of that she played in the Olympics so the assumption is she will be available at some point there was two big plays in their game this week where Courtney Vine got to the end line pulled it back and no one was inside the 18th not just the six that's where you would like to see your mvp but then courtney vine sets up herself and scores a goal that they didn't have

her before the summer so the team is better i think than they were going into the break i think they are improved i think these numbers are for real even with the loss to seattle last week but i think washington has taken a bigger step so far. And North Carolina, as you said, still has to get there going forward. But you want to go worries. So let's get there for you. Kansas City has lost back-to-back games to Washington and North Carolina. As I just said, Shawinga scored against North Carolina.

So she has scored now in seven straight, has continued to stay hot, be obviously an injury absence. Claire Hutton now out with the U-20s as a part of that group. Where are you on this panic meter? How worried are you about Kansas City? Because you had me draft them. So I am pretty, pretty unhappy right now. I forced you into it. I forced you into that draft pick. It'll be interesting how they perform at home because those two losses both came on the road. And it has been hard for teams to come into CPKC Stadium

and threaten, not to say that, I shouldn't say threaten because other teams have scored a number of goals there. But to be able to perform in the atmosphere atmosphere the momentum of the games at home is Kansas is the way Kansas City wants the tempo and no one do outside of Orlando for one half has been able to throw that off they do and so I think teams have not given them what they want like Like if you want to go quickly in transition, well, we're going to sit in a little bit more in this mid block and not give you the space to play in over the back, right?

We're going to slow the tempo of the game down. And if Kansas City is not controlling the tempo of the game, I think they have struggled. It was pretty direct when they were successful right it is quickly through the midfield using the speed on both channels at times but also the target play of bia and not to say that they've had bia a lot this year but i think that this team is just like i talked about caroline they bring an x factor when they have Bia as the nine because you can threaten and create more space

with runs going in beyond, but then soften up the back line with Bia coming off to create that space for the other players. So without her, they have opted for Dabinia to play in that spot. And it's just, it's not the spot for Dabinia for me she she's a 10 she wants to float she doesn't want to stay in a central space all the time and it has felt like they're they're trying to plug and play all these pieces that don't really I don't know how well they fit does Dabinia fit in the nine? Is Alana Cook that much better in the back line than Elizabeth Ball?

Those are the questions that I feel like, and I'm not, I don't, I don't know what's going on in Kansas City, but it feels to me like there's a little disbelief in the decisions that are making and it feels like it's rattled them a little bit. Yeah. I agree with you. I've been you i've been i've been confused by the amount of moves i've been confused by the amount of ins and outs in

the same position like you were the second best team in the league going into the break you've chosen to swap your own roster out for pieces now the center back spot we've had this debate a little bit about Ilana Cook. I just, I understand with the injuries you've had of trying to stockpile in there, but then you let Lauren go. So like they have made some interesting moves in some spots,

and it's almost like it happened faster than they expected, right? Vlatko comes in. I think it did. You have a new GM, or you lost your GM. And then it's like these were the planned summer moves and they made them anyway. I do think. Why am I blanking on her name from South Africa right now? Jurekka? Magala? Yes. Magala. They added two players. Yeah. Yeah. i think if she gets time on the front line the front line was most

effective when they were pacey pacey like i think that is the number one attribute when you had cooper uh bia and showinga they all had really good pace to be able to shift a back line and pull them apart and move them in various directions. I just don't think Dabinia has that to her game anymore. And so she's always striving to stretch, but then gets caught up with and the ball gets taken away from her and she can't make the correct pass that she needs to. So Magala, I think if you can play her on the wing and play Shawinga as a nine, it just brings you back up to that, like, let's make our strength our strength,

which is going in transition. And maybe they can have a little bit more success there. It was interesting. I went back and looked through a couple of the performances in the first half of the year that were similar to the Washington and North Carolina games. Like, they went and beat Portland 4-1 early on in the year and you look at the underlying numbers and they are similar like they are still direct they complete a similar amount of passes they have a similar amount of touches in the box I think the speed part makes sense of like if you have

the way they threaten teams you i think caused a little bit more chaos you created some more mistakes early on and now you've lost that half step maybe and you're not as close on the counter press or you're not there to get to that first ball and beat a defender and create chaos along the back line i think some of that makes a ton of sense d bernardo was also playing out wide early on and just i I think, giving you a ton of energy. That's another option which could drop Dabinia into a more comfortable spot centrally. It's hard without Hutton in there to be able to have enough cover centrally for Dabinia in that spot. But I think those are some of the options. It will be fascinating to see what happens this weekend when they come home because i think it is it's a big it's a big weekend for them like to be able to be at home say okay forget what's happened let's restart it right now because i think that they too can be they they can change it within a second and they could be back on a streak and we don't see them lose yeah and they were good

in summer cup so like they since the loss to orlando had strong performances they beat north carolina at home with two very similar groups to what we saw this weekend um so i think the opportunity is out there for this kansas city team but i think the worries should be real i don't think the worries long term should be real i think the core of this team is good I think there's an understanding of what that core is but it does feel like it was a very odd summer for them and as Orlando has gone from strength to strength Kansas City is now finding themselves after a momentum run it feels like early on which I didn't think we'd be saying at this point of the season. Blue Penguin has a question in the mailbag says, can anyone beat the pride?

Clearly not at the moment. But do you think there are any teams that stack up well against them that have the best shot? If you are, if I said to you, Orlando Pride are in the NWSL Cup final in Kansas City and you have to select the opponent to beat them who are you leaning on right now okay so not throughout the rest of i was going to pull up the schedule to see who they have the rest of the season um who am i picking to beat the pride in the final that is a good question and i think we'll say reasonably healthy so like maybe not guaranteed perfect health for both teams but like my thought process well i'll tell you with a team that i'm yeah but yeah okay go ahead no no you go first oh at the end um i'm i'm trying to think of which team. You know, I probably. I probably would go with Washington.

Yeah. I just I think that they have not just a good 11. They have some good depth and it's a team that you just like there. You said they were pretty good in the zero, zero, nil, nil. Yeah. Like the best, right? I feel like they could handle the game at the beginning, played Banda pretty well, which it feels like a lot of teams have done a good job of managing Vanda as of late. With that being said. She still scores.

She still scores. But I think I would choose Washington because overall I just think that they, I trust Geraldo and Gonzalez and what they've built there and their game plan, but also the players that they have I think would create the most threats and attack for Orlando to be able to manage. I think I agree with you because I think Orlando has shown flexibility. They are not a dominant possession team, but they have shown that they can mix and match in games. Yeah. Washington, I think, is similar.

I think if Orlando came out and took the game, Washington could say, all right, let's play direct for now and get out of trouble, and then we've got our front three or four that can go and get after you. Or if you come out and sit in a little and say build through us, I think there's enough confidence in this Washington central midfield. I love the change at right back right now to add a little bit more ball playing. Esme Morgan could come into this group as well, but not necessary.

And I think there's confidence and belief that they can build through most teams because they have the threat over the top. It opens up a little bit more space for them to play with. The other one i was thinking even off this weekend was gotham i knew you were gonna say gotham because i think it's the the smartest of the choices they are the um they are the we can win and not play our best which is what i think it would take to beat Orlando in a one game final is like survival and then a match winning moment.

And I would say of Gotham is reasonably healthy, as I said, so not a hundred percent because you've got like 18 options of players who are out and in, in this group, but reasonably healthy. I think you're looking at a team that has a lot of players on the back line who are going to win big battles, step up in big moments. You've obviously have Berger, who's a match winner. And then you've got the threat in the attack, whether it's from wide or from central. So those would be the two that stand out right now. And I think both of them are flexible teams because Orlando is a flexible team where I think if we had this convo

pre-summer cup about KC you were talking more tactically like which team matches up well against what KC does well where Orlando is a bit more of this amoeba that adjusts to the games as they happen yeah I just thought like how crazy like this this could really happen. We could see a team go undefeated the whole year. Yeah. It would be wild if it happened. And maybe I'll get someone to crunch the numbers of like what the odds are and what it looks like and how it happens. It's above our pay grade.

Yeah, it's above our pay grade on the math side. Also, they're not doing it against easy teams. No. Like it was Gothham this weekend yeah and gotham looked like they were a different like on a different level than orlando yeah uh kansas city in two weeks friday september 13th that is the rematch it's not going to be probably touted the way we thought it would coming out of the last matchup and coming out of the first half of the year. But it could be a big moment in this season. I did see today Bia is healthy and training with the team. Fingers crossed.

That would be huge. We have a question or a comment in the chat from John Rollins, who says Banda for Ballon d'Or which takes us into our fourth topic how perfect is that the Ballon d'Or femineal finalists have been named the award is given out on October 28th there is a huge list of names on here there's a lot of NWSL representation in this group there's a large amount of U.S. women's national team representation in this group as well. Barbara Banda is one of the ones that is named in this. Not super shocking with the numbers she has put up both in China and then now in NWSL immediately upon arriving. Bonmati obviously is at the top of this list. Won it last year. champions league with barcelona once again had an okay olympics with spain i guess a frustrating one for them tarsean is on this

list which is a little surprising trinity rodman is on this list as i think expected mal swanson returns to this list of course after having to sit out a year, Lindsay Horan is on this list, which I think many people would have expected. Sophia Smith as well. So the triple espresso going to Paris, going to France, maybe for this award. Maybe. Yeah, it's these awards are tough for me. I did a rant yesterday about defensive player of the year for MLS of like not everyone watches. Not everyone knows what's going on.

Not everyone has a scale they just vote I can almost guarantee Bonmati is going to win this thing but it is exciting to see the NWSL players like the transfer thing we talked about be respected in this conversation and this award I assume is for like October to October performance or September to September performance so in saying that like most of this is this NWSL season is what it is reliant on, which is tough for NWSL players because you don't really have a postseason in there. You don't have a ton of trophies to sort of lean off of, but it clearly has gone to the players who have exploded out of the goal scoring gates, except for and Shawinga is not on here.

I believe Shawinga's sister is on here. Yes. Her sister is. I think the triple espresso all have like a good shot of being named to, as the ball on door one, they all had really good seasons leading into Olympics where they all had really good Olympics. So I think that that's going to be front of mind for a lot of people.

I think you think a band has performance in the Olympics as well with the hat tricks. You're going to think, okay, maybe she'll be up there, but there's some really interesting names on here. Gavin from Germany, I thought was one of the best players for Germany at the Olympics place for

Bayern Munich. I also feel like Caldente played Barcelona, was a Spain World Cup champion. Again, that shouldn't be a part of it, winning the World Cup in 23, but winning the Champions League for Barcelona, winning league for them. I think Caldente is playing in the Olympics.

She's an incredible player. I think rightfully so, will probably be on the top, more towards the top of that list. But after winning the Olympics, I would be really surprised if this isn't a U.S. women's national team player. The tough part is, which one do you choose? And they're all going to take votes from each other, and they're not going to take votes from each other just because they all start and you know their friends like that's

really true they're going to take votes from each other because they each deserve it in different ways right trinity rodman the winner against japan the moment she had i think she played the most i think of any yes and i think played the most consistent over the course of it but sophia smith i think was the linchpin of a lot of it and probably over the 12 months had the best NWSL play because Mal Swanson was injured and Trinity Rodman had less success last season before coming back into this season and then Mal Swanson scores the winner in the gold medal match and has some of the biggest moments and has had an incredible tear to start the year in NWSL play.

It makes it really, really tough. I think Lauren James is one of the names that's going to get pushed in there, and mention Bunny Shaw probably as well, who I believe won Player of the Year in England for the season, and will probably be a finalist in this. Putellas as well, of course, because as you mentioned, the Champions League victory for Barcelona. So it'll be

interesting to watch a listen there by the way also on this list so another piece of that olympic winning shoot i hope she wins it how ridiculous would that be everyone's like who are we gonna vote for in the attack honestly how is naomi german not on this list but i know that's why that actually is wild especially with with the year San Diego had coming out of last season and the way she has played. That is a miss. And that is a mistake.

So now we've got something to complain about, which is great. But it kind of proves what you were saying earlier is like people don't really watch so they don't know. This is mostly like

players that score goals. Yeah. And scoring goals is boring. That's what we say about soccer. All right. Well, that's what we say about soccer all right well that's it for us we are excited for another weekend of nwsl coverage i'll be back on monday with the recap show to talk you through what happened on the weekend we'll be back of course on wednesday live to talk all things nwsl as we continue on this stretch uh as we both mentioned a lot we're

gonna learn a lot this weekend there are some big matches for some teams that are sitting right on the edge of things so a lot to watch for jump into the discord subscribe to the patreon if you haven't thank you so much to you jordan for being here thank you to all of you for listening and we'll talk to you again very very soon.