SoccerWise - Over/Unders MLS 2025 Season w/Matt Doyle + Decision Day Preview

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

With the final weekend of the season on the horizon it is time to get report cards for every team AND us! Matt Doyle joins David & Tom to recap the over/under lines he set in preseason, and what we said about each team. The squad goes over which teams out kicked their coverage and which floundered. And of course they dig into all the biggest storylines to watch for this Decision Day. Not to be forgotten our beloved college soccer at the end the crew chats about "Next Gen" white paper on the future of college soccer.

What's up everybody? Welcome back to Soccer Wise, David Goss and Tommy Scoops with a special guest, one of our favorites, Mr. Matt Doyle, with us for a huge episode here as we approach Decision Day in MLS. Doyle, you got the full experience. I hit go live. There is a five-second countdown. Tom likes to do the dumbest thing possible in the five seconds. Then he hits the mic while he then goes and does a different thing.

And that's how we start our shows fully professional. Yeah. I mean, that's why podcasts have market corrected drive time sports talk radio because of productions like this one. It feels, honestly, it feels like it's 1996. And I'm listening to Mike and the dog again. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something.

ball players they don't know they don't know how to bunt they don't know how to bunt it's a shame it's a tragedy uh you know horace wagner is rolling over in his grave all right i hang up and listen tom liked that segment so much that he's like we should make it recurring and in a month and a half he hasn't thought of a single other thing to say besides that players can't bunt so he just oh i want to make it about like we can cam scottaboo he he would have been the MVP in 1984 uh the team needs more ball players like this Oh, man, Tom, we're going to get canceled so fast, which is great because we're going to go over our over unders from the preseason. So if anyone remembers Doyle joined us in February, he set the line for every single MLS team in over under because MLS no one really cares about.

No one had set it outside of us. So we went and did it ourselves. Doyle set them up. We're going to go through what you did in terms of how you did setting the lines and then how we did picking over unders on all of them. So by the end of this show, people will realize we don't know anything. and they can turn off and not listen to us. Anyway, we're going to talk a little bit about college soccer because we got the white page from the next gen.

Speaking of not knowing anything. Advisory group a little bit earlier today. So we're going to touch on that. It's obviously a topic I'm very intrigued by. And we had Sasha Sarovsky and Brian Weiss on a few weeks ago, and they talked about some things that they think will come to a vote. This group does not have any governing power, but they kind of put in writing most of what Sasha and Brian had talked about.

and potentially could come to fruition and change the way college soccer is set up going forward. And of course, we've got Decision Day on the Brink this weekend. Tom, I assume if you spun the camera around, there'd be like 38 TVs on the wall that you'll be using to watch. Absolutely. The screen setup in Brick, New Jersey is elite. How far along are you with your setup? I'll be honest. I'd self-grading.

You've got to evaluate myself here. I didn't correctly the wall space far away to the recliner here there's a couple monitors that are a little too small and then I end up just standing up here like a crazy person watching some of the TVs like for the smaller ones so you know we're just going to go back to the training ground we're going to analyze the tape standing up standing up is actually better for your health

yeah it's alpha more and long term so yeah mental health as well that's a good point because you want to live that alpha lifestyle especially especially on a Saturday night when you're locked in your basement watching MLS. So it's the most important time to be Alfa. Doyle, Tom's an adult now. It's called an office. That's the shift that's occurred in his life.

It actually makes it respectable, if not honorable, that he's a small business owner trying to push the economy forward every single Saturday night with his skeets and Instagram posts and whatever else these kids these days do. we've had a really good stretch it took us 45 minutes to start recording because we didn't know the mute buttons on our mics none of us know how to do math we couldn't figure out how to build a Google doc so this wasn't this was not this was not high level math either this was addition yeah we all struggled with addition yeah yeah it's not ideal day yeah we are the cream of the crop right now let's start with decision day and then we'll get into our over unders and I wanted to be I I was curious what you guys are watching for. Obviously, we're all going to have 100 games on at the same time. I love it on Decision Day. I hate it every other day, but this is the day that I like it.

6 o'clock for the Eastern Conference Games, 9 o'clock for the Western Conference games. And then, of course, NYCFC is playing Seattle. So that's at 6 o'clock as well as NYCFC hosts a Western Conference team because nothing can actually line up and nothing actually works. Let's start with you, Doyle. What are you locked in for? What's going to be your, like, highlight of the day? There's going to be a lot to choose from and I thought I would go snarky and dark.

But I'm actually going to go in the other direction and say that I'm really looking forward to Nashville versus Inter Miami because I think this is the one clear matchup where it's two teams that that can win MLS Cup and nobody should be surprised. And I know that like maybe people don't perceive of Nashville like that, but you should Nashville actually have the best underlying numbers in the entire league. they took in the U.S. Open Cup semis they absolutely took Philly out behind the woodshed and Philly like I thought Philly was going to go into the toilet for the rest of the year because they took that bad a beat and in a game that they had put a lot into trying to compete

and Nashville said you don't even have a chance. So Nashville we know they can win big games. They have two match winners. They have a really good defense. Walker Zimmerman is getting healthier and I think it's probably going to be a starter. on Decision Day and then into the playoffs and they're just a much better team

when Zimmerman is available and then we know what Inter Miami is right they have messy as far as is getting hot a little bit but their defense has actually been a lot better than I think people give them credit for if you look at their goals allowed this year

they're better than last year but if you look at especially at the underlying numbers they are significantly better than last year Like their year-over-year improvement has been, you know, I think top three or four in the league. Like not to the same level as Nashville and Vancouver, but like just behind them. And now they've also made a big change in goal where Rocco Rios Novo looks like he's the starter now. Like he's displaced Oscar Ustari, you know, over the past, what, three games. And like ever since that disaster against the fire.

And Rios Novo is just a piece better goalkeeper than Oscar Rostari. this point. So like I I'm really looking forward to to that game in like a non-sarcastic dead inside kind of way. So Doyle, you wrote this about Miami and kind of giving Javier Messerato credit for some of the changes he made and and to your point about the underlying numbers until you wrote that, I didn't realize it either. So Miami are better than FC Cincinnati and Charlotte FC in expected goals against by like four or five goals. And if you told me that before the season. I just wouldn't have dignified it with an answer. I would have been like that's a dumbest thing you've ever said. But like it is, it's an important thing because I keep going back to like I'm still

worried about their transition defense, rest defense, those kind of things. Like I still think that they're vulnerable there. But to your point, they're not like, you can't even still say in hindsight that the Atlanta result was something that you that we could have forecast seen coming. I think a lot of us had questions about the next round and when they played better teams. But I think this year like that is going to be very, very important that that should stabilize it. And if anything, is even remotely close to equal, well, your team has Leo Messi, you're going to paper over a ton of cracks,

and they have improved it, and I do think that that's a really big story. It's a really big piece of analysis that not a lot of people were noticing, so goodos to you for Braavitts at a forefront. Yeah, I just, I don't watch the games. I was just looking at the stats. I thought you were going to do

an actual acceptance speech there. I think it's unfortunate that Javier Mastrano does watch the game but doesn't look at the stats in some way. that Oostari held on as starting goalkeeper for this team. Yeah, I don't think that was. I don't think that was Mascherano's decision, man. Oh, really?

Yeah, I think that's a thing that, like, like, there's, there's one guy who, who manages the personnel decisions with Intermite. And it's not somebody in the front office. And it's not the guy on the sideline. It's, you know, it's the guy we're in number 10. And I think that there had to be a reckoning at some point. And I think that's probably been the hardest point, the hardest part of Mascherano's job has managing the personalities, which is probably the hardest part of any manager's job in

MLS this year or maybe ever is getting everyone aligned in that locker room. And I have that from folks who have been in that locker room. So what you're saying is... No, no. Give us the inside scoop. To put a point, I was just going to look at the numbers. That's going to be really underwhelming. Oscar Ossarie is fourth worst in MLS

in expected goals against versus your post shot expected goals and he's just behind Brad Guzan Jonathan Boland and John Polskamp who I think we've taken shots out all three of those so it was high time for Stari to get replaced and I to your points I didn't think that it was actually going to happen

for all the reasons you've laid out yeah what I was going to say is Oscar Oostari is the Russell Westbrook of MLS the star player decides that they want and once you get in there you realize next championship three to the dome baby season on the verge let's go tom's chugging coffee he couldn't even join me for that one there's just an excuse to bring it up just an excuse to say it uh mike my

my championship my championship is brad stevens and joe maz shutting down both jalen brown and derrick white by december first and being like oh no it's tendinosis they're both going to have to miss the next six months i want 22 wins i want there's no three jobs That is my championship. You'd have to put Joe Mizzou in a straight jacket for that to have a chance. Like, he wouldn't be able to be on this odd line. Maybe people might need to do that anyway. Like that might be a good recommendation anyway.

Would you be willing to scrimmage Joe Mousoula once a week? So he could crush you and get the feeling out of his body and therefore he doesn't have to play the player? He's such a cartoon character, but he's kind of likable. That was, that was hilarious. That was such good concept in that they won 54 to 4. And a couple people were saying, like, every... Do we think there's an MLS coach who would do it to us? Let me tell you this.

I don't want to give too many details, because it's not my story to tell, but there was one team that mixed in staff in their media game, and a high-ranking sporting executive was definitely put himself on the other team to his most hated media member, and it was very clear that he wasn't trying to kick the crap out of him, which I actually thought was going to happen. But it was very clear. He turned it up to 100 every time that there was a possible interaction to embarrass him.

this person. So I think that would be really fun, even as long as nobody gets two-footed, but I think it'd be good. I'm saying it's Pat Noonan. I think Pat Noonan's like, yeah, let's roll the ball out. Let's start playing. Let's high press each other. Let's see what's happening. And Kenny Arena. That's what I'm saying would do it. I do know there was, I think there was a combine basketball game that used to happen. So MLS Combine, MLS coaches playing basketball. And I, I think Jay Heaps was considered the ringer of the whole thing because he played it at Duke. But like, I'm pretty sure Jesse and Jim Curtin played in it and all of them. And maybe we could have, maybe we could have hung a little bit in that game more than playing soccer.

No, I couldn't have. I could know, just to be clear, I could not hang in any physical contest against the professional athlete in any setting. I would not, I would not put myself in that scenario because I'm pretty sure if I went on the field, there are 30 MLS head coaches and 30 sports. directors who would be willing to two foot me and I would not blame not blame I get the verbal two foots on Doyle's behalf from sporting directors of the team hey Tom at least they don't think it's you at least they don't say they're like why did you say this I don't know I've never said that before my life couldn't even figure out a place where I was at Tom's Tom's too much of a beta to actually give opinions he's just he's just published and

press releases that's all he's doing what's Tom's voice Doyle do you know This is actually AI. Oh, boy. It's actually AI. It could be AI if you want it to be. Tom, what is your most intriguing storyline that you're watching for on Decision Day? Speaking of BATUS. The answer should be the wildcard race out west, but I don't have any juice for that because these teams are stumbling over each other and falling and crying to crawl to the finish line.

I think everybody, but Dallas is like if you combine like their last six results, it's like four wins out of their last 18 games for the other three teams and then Dallas are without Mousa and Farrington. So I don't know, Atlanta did upset Miami last year, but I think all of this is just to see who gets to play a couple

more games for the playoffs and be the sacrificial land to Vancouver. So I'm going to go even lower down the table the spoon race. And how perfect that we get Atlanta DC United on the final day of the season to decide the spoon? You couldn't have scripted that any better. And it's

just, this is one of the worst single seasons in MLS history relative to expectation, possibly the worst, given that Atlanta spent more money than any team in MLS history over the last two transfer windows. And for it to all end up like this,

it's just disaster. To the conversation, me and McKinley had a bid on Monday, is Mattias Click, the MVP of Major League Soccer? Is he the most impactful player to have two teams roster him this year and be competing for his spoon you have to ask the question if he is the most impactful player or signing in major league soccer right now i don't i don't think you do i think you needed to workshop that bit a little bit more i think there was a different

angle to take with that one but i think he gave a good i thought matthias click gave a good uh a good interview a couple weeks ago with like it was a Polish outlet I want to say yeah where he said that is your territory Doyle Seattle was the end of the world yes he also said messy was in charge of everything that happened in Miami including yeah starting Oscar Astari who I'm sure metace click could not name and does not know who plays goalkeeper for inter Miami which is probably part of the film session never crossed midfield this year so like how would he know that is very very true I was going to say the Western Conference wildcard race and then Tom made it sound terrible

so now I feel like a crazy person for saying it. I will be, it would be the most major league soccer thing ever if FC Dallas without both of their starting shakers went to Vancouver and somehow got a result. I have, I said this to McKelley on Monday. There's going to be a 35 minute span

where San Jose all of a sudden is going to be in sixth somehow, magically. I think San Jose is getting in. Yeah, that's what he said as well. So you think Colorado loses an RSL or Dallas? Colorado can't stop anybody in transition. Colorado, I mean, Colorado is at home. Yeah, right? Home to L.A.F.C.

Yeah, but it's L-AFC, and they can't stop anybody in transition and it's son and Denny Buonga. And it's like that, they're giving up four. How many minutes do you think the Sun plays? Oh, it's a good question, actually. I think Buonga plays because he wants to win the Golden Boot. And he's a cyborg that does not ever get tired. Yeah, true, right.

Yeah, right? He's like, I might fly to Gabon midweek just to come back, just to see how it feels. You know, I feel like, I feel like Abobacy played well enough where it's like, okay, you give him the first 55 minutes and then you bring Sun on for the final 30, 35, if he's cool with it. And he, do you, is there any scenario in which Abobacy could be part of the starting front three? Do you think that there's no balance in it and doesn't make sense? No, I mean, I don't, I think if you do that, then you're pushing either Sun or Boanga out to the starting. their weaker side and you don't like son is a forward at this point in his career and bobus he's a really good backup who could maybe start next year on the right team but like whatever we'll cross

that bridge when we get to it but i like i think that lafc is going to go to um go to colorado and win especially because like they're incentivized to really go for it because of the standings i think that um rsl have been um they're charging up the standings with three wins in their last 10 and that's somehow been able to pull themselves over the line but like they're going to St. Louis and St. Louis has not been bad recently and they score their goals

off of midfield turnovers and San Jose cannot get out of their own way in central midfield. They just give teams runouts time after time after time and that leaves San Jose at home against an Austin team that nothing to play for. Yeah, nothing to play for.

I know they got that point or the three points against lafc but i'm not i wasn't super impressed by him like i like joseph could go out there and and have a brace and chichot got another and it's a three one to san jose and suddenly the quakes are are back in like that it's like that's like that's i think that's what's going to happen i i really think that's like the quakes are going to get into the wildcard game and they're going to lose four nil to pet armusa a pissed off petramusa and logan ferrington the greatest strike duo in the world. Yeah, I think that would be the most, like, Dallas being in the wildcard game,

I think would be a fun outcome, San Jose as well, just because all of their games are crazy. It doesn't matter who they play and what they do. So I think for like a neutral, and that's like, again, Colorado, like I do like some of the things Colorado do, but they've just really run out of steam here on the second half of the season. And Real Salt Lake, I like much more in theory than in practice. Like, Ron Cruz hasn't settled yet, and Diego Luna is the star that they built it all round and so having him in a knockout game would be fun but i don't know like dallas getting musa back

and farington back if they do get into the wildcar game that be i'm still very surprised that they didn't win that appeal i do like it's not inside reporting to say that they're disappointed but like they felt extremely they felt extremely confident that this was that's why he's here folks to give us they they they said insight like that they said like their their kind of video analysis everything they they were assuming like this isn't going to be a debate like he's obviously going to get overturned and they were really upset that the independent It was a good job. It was a good job of shit housing by Kuevas.

Like he really sort of goaded Farrington into participating with that. And I didn't think, I honestly didn't think Farrington did anything wrong, but like he put himself in, I don't think he actually did that. I think it was just trying. I think it's going to have gotten overturned. Yeah, yeah. No, it's a bummer, but. Makes it more interesting, I guess.

So that's the Western Conference wildcard race, which will be fun to watch in the 9 o'clock games. I think for me in the 6 o'clock window, it's that fight for fourth in the east. There's not a lot to decide between these teams, Charlotte, NYCFC, Nashville, and Orlando. And I think in a three-game series, having two of the home games will probably be the difference.

And so I'm curious to see what Philly rolls out there. Like the whole conversation we had last week about where this team stands all. time is the assumption that they get up to 69 points have that nice season and put themselves in a slightly more historical conversation if they don't like great they won the shield it's theirs but i don't know that i don't know how this season stands up against other ones as you go forward to matter and so it may not matter i'm saying that genuinely that wasn't like me making fun of you like genuinely like does i i don't think for me that we're going to go back and talk of

like if they had 69 points versus 66. I think two points per game is a, is a real, like in my mind, that's a delineation. Because I remember, I remember when, think about FC Dallas's shield versus Toronto shield. Right. Those are gaps in how you think of them. When Toronto won that shield, we were tracking it like, oh, they, you know, this is the first time since the 2005 quakes that somebody's been over two point. per game something like that um and then they obviously they they finished off the the story by winning mLS cup as well and like that's going to be the real measure with philly um if they can

follow up uh shield win with just even getting to the cup final that would be huge for them it um also if they don't play people this week it would be like two plus weeks also good point playing competitive games for their players going into they got to sharpen the knife man like for real especially because since uh excuse me charlotte is like a real playoff team like this is going to be something that matters and you don't like you can't throw this in the trash just because you locked up first place yeah and then obviously as i said for all these teams fighting for that fourth spot is super interesting having those two home games it was the difference in a bunch of the series over the last two years of like the team that limped through had two of the home games

that was able to get over the line orlando's been an example of that against charlotte literally so They've understood that and they've experienced that. So I think that's going to be really interesting to watch. Let's dig into our overunders now. And let's start big picture, Doyle, on the process, setting up the numbers. And beside their picks, how do you feel about the way you set this up going into the season? So you know I feel really good about it because I've been saying nothing, but I feel really good about how the lines turned out. So what I did to measure it is like how good the lines were is I took the like Vegas sports books preseason wins total over unders for MLB and NBA.

And then I took, I think it was Fox or ESPN, whatever, one of the big sports outlets that covers the NFL. I took their expert predictions for wins total over unders for the enders for the. NFL just to see to compare how experts do and compare how sports books do. And I was significantly better than the Fox football experts at drawing lines. Yeah. And I was stiff Fox. Absolutely. And I was I was worse, I was worse than the sports books doing NBA and MLB lines. Because your knee caps didn't rely on it. Right. But like not by a ton. And the way I calculated this was using standard deviation and Z score. So standard deviation for all of you who have forgotten your middle school.

Oh, Tom, no, let's go ahead. No, I'm saying, Tom, Tom wants you to stop talking. Watch 11 guys on a field. Are you say a number? Tom's math is you got 12 bags of concrete. I need to fill in your backyard. I bring 12 bags of concrete, and that's what I do. So the Z score measures the average,

standard deviation from the mean win total or points total in this case that the team is. So the sports books Z score for MLB this year was 0.86. The sports books Z score for NBA last year was 0.96. My Z score is about 1.3. We won't have the actual one until after the season. The Z score for the Fox experts on the NFL was like 1.8. So I was actually closer to the sports books. And also, none of the points totals for my teams were more than two standard deviations from the mean.

Whereas for the sports books, the Brewers were three standard deviations from the mean for MLB. And then there was one, I don't remember the other one. The Brewers were a wider margin than you had San Diego or. Philadelphia? Correct. Wow. Yeah. Because that seemed, I mean, that seemed really bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I was pretty, I was pretty happy with all that. But like the bottom line is you, you can't beat Vegas. So don't, you know, don't, don't try too hard because then you'll, you'll end up with broken kneecaps. So you're, the way you did it was you eyeballed it, right? Like you eyeballed last year. you thought where you thought these teams fell in the standings and then you tried to set numbers on that exactly that but i realized um i knew my audience and i knew my um degenerate gamblers who would be doing this exercise with me so so i prayed on i prayed on what i seemed like

what i saw as your predilections and that gave me more insight into how vegas Like how the Knicks and the Lakers always have expanded like like Yeah And like a cup of like yeah Like Red Sox fans Dodgers fans always hit the over like if you look at the like If you look at the numbers on any of those Gambling apps like 85% of the action is on the over

And it's because team like fans love their teams So everybody hits them Absolutely absolutely I was inside And miss too many times times, then suddenly you're on the run. I was inside Hard Rock Casino yesterday watching T-Pain live, 20-year anniversary. Shout out to T-Pain for 20 great years.

And I was trying to get a bet in as I'm sitting there being like, I got to experience it. And the line kept shifting on me, and I would have had it right, but they wouldn't let me keep the line. And you know what? I'm not going to be bullied. I'm not going to be bullied by Hard Rock in the Seminole County or whatever is going on in there. It is the most Florida experience you could possibly have. It was a wildlife experience. All right, let's go into then how we did in all of this.

And to be clear, this is what we were tabulating. Each of us were supposed to do someone else's score. Doyle can't count to 30, but yeah, I can do standard. I can make really good lines. I would like to know who he used for all of this research because there's no way he did this himself. Show yourself America soccer analysis nerds who are assisting Doyle. 100% on the side. I calculated Tom's and for everyone out there,

there are three teams that are still open. We do not know where they're going to fall on the over under on the lines. Which again, 10% of those lines. So that means 10% of the lines are still open going into the final weekend. That's pretty good. Yeah. That is pretty good. And that's good math as well on the fly with the 10% thing.

So. It's just addition that gives me trouble, man. Or continuing to crush it. I calculated Tom's and Tom finished so far with 15 correct over under predictions and 12 incorrect with the three still open. And listen, my office is still going through the numbers and there might be some protests because I actually thought that was 27 and three, but I digress. And we're going to get to the bottom of this. I don't know how many absentee votes that you submitted there. So we're just going to, we're just going to fair and balance process and make sure that everything's correct.

this is going to be one of our most fun shows and darkest shows at the same time we get done with this so the three open you could finish on 18 it seems unlikely and the three open for everyone for all of us are Portland Columbus and San Jose so all of them still sitting on their lines I can read it out this way because I wrote it down Columbus on 51 points Doyle set the line at 53 and a half so anything besides a victory this weekend means they would fall under. Portland are on 44 points. Doyle sent the line at 45 and a half and San Jose are currently sitting on 38 and you had the line at 38.5. Yeah. So if San Jose makes the playoffs, your line's a little bit more off than if they lose and they don't make the playoffs or they

tied. And then you'd be the half point off for both of that. So that's Tom's numbers. 1512 with the three unchecked. Doyle. Doyle. I think was calculated by Tom. I checked these multiple times hoping that that was wrong. Doyle is 16 and 11 with those three open. It's pretty good. So does that mean I made bad lines? Right? Because if I'm trying to act as the house,

I don't want, I don't want the gamblers to be small sample size here. So far above 5. Okay, fair enough. We'll open it up. And the example of why you did okay is what was my score? You were 13, 14.

and three, though we've had, we've had to send that back for a recount several times. Well, the Florida votes are still coming in, of course. It looks like you're under 500. So you're going to have to get a fifth podcast to make a little extra, a little extra scratch.

I am going to assume that I'm going to hit on all three of those and that's actually because my lines are different than yours. We agreed on two of those three. So Columbus and San Jose, we all have the same pick. The only one where, like the standings could change is on Portland because I went over

you guys went under. Okay, don't go Portland. Anti-Portland now. I was about to say go Portland, go Timbers. In that, let's go through each one and see if we have some comments on each one. We're going to start. Let me just say there was a visceral reaction to some of these where you think now

is like, oh, obviously I was under on this team and just like the gut punch of like oh, what was the number for Atlanta? And I said what? oh so that's going to be you guys want to start at the bottom or the top you do those choice well let's start at the bottom okay let's go to the basement we start with Toronto FC 33 and a half points all three of us went under that was correct and it turns out that if you set a record streak for ties you still don't get a lot of points so you end up under on that

one the next one was DC United at 36 and a half let me give you let me go back and give you some of my like my thought process on where I set the line for them real quick for Toronto I actually picked them as the the spoon team at the start of the year but usually the spoon know the right yeah right the spoon winner is usually much lower than this line but I kind of knew if I drew the line any lower than it was it would end up being kind of an easy over. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, okay.

In the end, there's a chance seven teams finish below this line. The only team that can get over it is St. Louis on 31 points right now, where if they beat RSL at home in the final game, they'd finish on 34, right above. Otherwise, seven teams in Major League Soccer are going to be below the line that we set

as just a barrier for the worst team in LLS coming into the year, which is going to inform a lot of what we're about to talk about in these next few teams. DC United, our first disagreement, 36 and a half points. Me and Tom went over. Doyle went under, and boy, did Doyle knock that one out of the park. Tom, you want to talk about your confidence about DC United? Not really. Okay.

Do you guys maybe want to apologize to your listeners? No, there's plenty more to go over. The next team is where I want to apologize. Oh, that's a good point. The next team. one point more is San Diego FC third worst in Major League Soccer was the prediction at 37 and a half points and all three of us went under on a team that may finish first in the Western Conference they could finish on 63 points almost 30 points better than this mark Tom you'd like to

yeah that's tough um my worries about this team coming into the season were the question marks along the back line and in goal, C.J. DeSantos had not been a starting goalkeeper in the league yet. I liked the signing of Paddy McNair, but outside of that, I had significant question marks along the back line. And I thought that they were going to be fun going forward and score goals, but ultimately weren't going to be consistent enough defensively. And that has proven to be incorrect. C.J. Joe Santos has been really good. Patty McNair, really good. Chris McVeigh, really good. And Luca Bombino, really good, just to name a few that, like, all of those question marks got filled with not just, like, good, but great on a, on a, on a

few of those and then manu do a mano do yes at the second half the season mid season and elevating the defense to a level where they could um still get results even as the the attack cooled off um it's just a really complete team well they're still missing a number nine um which play he plays for philly now there's some discourse about that um but like number nine's are antiquated doyle that's like the new button on your mic don't worry about it I mean, Tyler Heaps, it's, he did a masterclass. Absolutely, absolutely. Like, he made, he made one mistake, right?

And it's what happened in July when they didn't retain Milan Iloski. And Mikey Varis, any other year would be such an easy vote, such an easy vote for manager of the year. But he's going to be second for me this season. Me too. Is, would Heaps be your executive of the year? Yeah. Yeah. Like, no disrespect to, you know, would folks in.

Vancouver and Philly and, you know, a few other spots have done. But, yeah, what Tyler Heaps did is incredible. It is obviously then one of the biggest gaps between the teams we picked and the expectations going into the season where they finish. They will probably, not probably, they will have an MVP finalist. They will have a coach of the year finalist. They will have an executive of the year. Do we really think that Anders Dreyer is going to be an MVP finalist? You think he won't be top three?

I think Messi is guaranteed to be top three. I think Belonga is, he 100% has the narrative at this point. And who else? And then it's Avander. Evander, Sam Surridge. I'd be shocked if Surge finished above Dreyer. Dryer is very firmly, my number two in this MVP race. So I'm firmly expecting him to be on the finalist list and he should be.

Okay. And he's going to win newcomer. I don't disagree. I don't disagree that he should be. on the list. I'm just not sure he's a, like, David said it with his chest. Yeah, they have an MVP finals.

It's like, okay, if it was a five-person MVP race, then like you could say that. I will be shocked if he is not a finalist. And based off my predictions of San Diego season seven months ago, I always know what I'm talking about in advance. I'm never shocked by what happens. And Shadow Tail, Traffico Radio says morning to my fellow MLS shills.

Let's go to our next team, Tide on points. Sporting Kansas City, all three of us went under on sporting KC on 37 and a half points. We were all. That was one of my strongest feelings that like there's a, again, in hindsight, I felt really, really confident in that. Yeah. I, like, they spent a lot of money bringing in Garcia and Sharpie Soleimanov and Chris Dayon Yovalich. and even with that

it was pretty obvious this team's broken. They haven't had a six or centerback since Icopara at centerback essentially. Matt Biener. To Tandra Weeby playing for that.

Honestly, and again, like both things can be true. The day on Yovitch signing has been excellent and that's a very, very good thing and it's going to set them up in the future. It didn't address what they needed this off season and that doesn't mean

that the funds for Yovilich should have won somewhere else. No, they should have signed Yovitch and then also a six in the center. If they had just followed us, then they could have helped Peter Vermeas move on. Preseason, it all would have been easier for sporting Kansas City. By the way, they had taken our advice. David Lee, new CSO coming from NYCFC, Sporting KC need a six and a centerback.

Justin Hack, NYCFC, plays six and a centerback and is a free agent. that is the least interesting conspiracy theory of sports league could ever have going on. It's not a conspiracy. It's just crystal ball looking at potential free agents. I think he's the best one. Brooklyn native Justin Hack, by the way. I used to see him playing at Pier 5.

Nice. Getting a little game in before the co-ed leaks took over and the real game started on the Pier 5 field. Let's move to San Jose. this is the one we don't know yet 30 38 and a half points they're on 38 all three of us had the under so there's a chance we're all right there's a chance we're not we just talked about them for a little while and their opportunity to make the post season let me just real quick um almost a 20 point year over year improvement from this team and if you look at the underlying numbers their improvement is in line with what miami did just a little bit below um what what nashville and vancouver did like I think this is going to be an easy like going into next season they're going to be 15 points better you think so like I'm going to draw the line I'm going to draw the line for for San Jose next year at like 49 and a half well that's nine that's nine points higher so I know

not like your reaction when you were like you really think so because you said 15 it puts them at like third of the west well I'm not going to draw the line at 54 and a half but like if it's like this this feels to me like all right Bruce figure some stuff out and you're two like he knows how to win this thing so two things one i got asked i did a redid am a yesterday if a new owner would bring in a new coach where i said absolutely not would be my assumption because bruce wins and most owners who take over a soccer team don't know soccer bruce arena is maybe the only coach they've ever heard of or would be on a list of yeah short no shot there but in terms of the continued growth i wonder if the ceiling is the big jump

is bringing in dps and like spending extra money and going and get talent and then that next gap is like you have to get the things you have to get the smaller things right to make the next jump for them and i don't know that i have as much confidence in that as i did i i trust bruce on that end particularly um do you see how good bolaroo has been this season you can kind of go on down the list of some of their i guess pleasant surprises in terms of guys making contributions and i think that that's just going to continue year every year and and with with hopefully one more DP, hit, get that right. We'll see what happens with the attackers and how that all get situated. But the foundational point, starting with, you know, Christian Espinoza, Chichol Rango,

like that's solid. And then again, you throw in Boluru and you throw in some of the young players that I quite like, Daniel and the goalkeeper. So there's a lot here. One of the things that the sounders have done really well, and Brian Schmitzer plays a big role in this is like they will turn over their staff every, you know, four or five years and say, okay this is where we're a little deficient and this is what we need to improve and just looking at this the way that San Josef played

like they need to get aggressive about bringing in a defensive coordinator essentially for especially for their rest defense and for their transition defense just that alone is I think eight or 10 easy points just being better against the ball

and part of that is going to have to be you know first needs to choose between Joseph and Chichot You can't have both of those guys up top because if you do, then you're the easiest team in the world to build through. But still, I like that like we're right on the bubble for this one going on decision day. I think Aaron Glenn will be available. Dial up a few blitzes here. I was going to say Aaron Glenn. I thought you were going to come after me, Tom. I was trying to get there first. Yeah, before you got there. This is for me probably the most embarrassing one coming up.

The Philadelphia Union. We had them preseason predicted or Doyle had the line. set at 41 and a half points. So for context, R.S.L and Colorado are on 40 right now, and Dallas is on 41. Everyone in the Eastern Conference that's in a playoff spot is way above this. And you both picked over, and I went with the under. And I think my reasoning on the underside was I didn't think anything would improve. I didn't feel like the team was very different. And I didn't think year one under a new coach would be that drastic difference.

I think Tom told me about 100 times. they're going to dial it up they're going to go to the press they're going to dial it up they're going to go to the press you may have been right on this one may have you qualify that I think that's no I mean final week hasn't happened yet I don't know things could change they could fall into a hole and lose 30 points obviously I didn't expect them to win the shield literally nobody did but I did I felt really strongly about this one too that there was going to be a baseline and a really high floor because of that and you kind of look at the attack you know this was set when they had Daniel Gossack. And then they traded him in April and then got better or kept getting

better. Ty Berebo, Bruno Dambiani has been good. McElwhor is still there. Like, the attack is just so, again, like, Briebo hasn't even been a full-time starter all the time now at the end of the season. He was in the goal and boot race. And they're still getting goals. They're still getting wins. And the defensive foundation and just how incredible McCona has been partnering with former MLS defender of the year in Jacob Glezzan. Like that, that is what starts at all for them and all these players fit the system and that's why i thought that the floor was very hot so was this a bad line because it's so much like i like it's so far off that's what morgan saying morgan saying isn't even as a philly fan who wasn't super confident this felt

way too low right i went under so clearly it so that makes it makes it a pretty good line yeah i wonder if i had said it at like 44 and a half um that's that what it went over Yeah. And I'm not, I mean, it's easy to say that now. You're super sharp. Yeah, yeah. But no, no, no matter what you said it, that would have gotten right. No matter what you said it, that I would get in on the preseason.

Tom always puts the supporter shield winner preseason before, uh, over 40 points. I consider Atlanta in my shield in my shield, in my shield pick before the season. So again, I'm not, I'm not just taking double the two. Uh, uh, Philadelphia Union, uh, over under final, uh, 67 and a half. We go over. I, uh, because for all your points, like, they're going to treat this game seriously. seriously because there is no incentive to not because of the buy, sorry, because of the

time that it'll be. That was my point. Tom, I'm the one on the left. He's the one on the right. I thought I was using the Royal U of just like everybody. Oh, I thought that was a Doyle U. That was the Usted form. Perfect. Okay, so moving from Philly, the next one we have, we have three teams tied

on 41 and a half points. We have the New England Revolution and we have Nashville SC. Those are two very different conversations. New England, 41 and a half points. Me and Tom went over. Doyle went under. So Doyle was in this space where he was just goading us on all of these things. New England's finishing right now. They're on 35 points. So they have no shot at this one. And then Nashville at 41 and a half. Both of you went under and I went over with confidence that things would get better. What made you guys think a Caleb Porter team was going to get better in year two? because this was like I actually like this roster

that's what I like my under my under was just a bet against Caleb I thought they were going to be in the playoff mix I forget if I had them over the line or not so I figured 41 to have like even if they're in the mix and don't get there like the Red Bulls right now are on 43 points they're out of the playoffs I thought that was going to be a New England spot even if they missed

they would be the first team out so it felt like they had brought in coherent centerbacks and that if you gave any yeah And then if you gave enough runners off Carlos Heel, that the floor should have been 41 points. Yeah. Yeah. That was the feeling. And if they win this weekend, which they might, then they're three points behind.

And like. So it's a good line. Yeah. It's a good line. On Nashville, what made you guys so sure you were not confident about a team that has won the U.S. Open Cup and could finish on, what, 55 points? Well, I was worried about the. like again, I thought that there was good signs under BJ Gowhan last season, but that didn't really turn into results.

They didn't have a ton of flexibility this winter. The Walker Zimmerman, like the overrunner for his games played, is always a question mark, and I thought that he was going to be somebody that if they missed him for as much as they did this season, that the wheels would fall off. So I was wrong about all of that. It's been a really, really good season for Nashville,

and we got a best 11 caliber season for Honey Mukdar. And again, this time, in preseason, Sam Surge was, are they going to sell him in the summer so they can buy a new DP. And he's been one of the best forwards in the league. Yeah. And I didn't, I wasn't sure about their central midfield upgrades. Like at that, the point we were making the line, we thought that Gaston Bergman was going to have to play 2,500 minutes.

Yazbek hadn't been at all impressive. Nobody knew who Eddie Tagseth was. Like there just didn't seem to be room for the type of improvement that we've seen from this team. B.J. Callahan is like in that. Mikey Varis thing where it's like almost any other year. Yeah. He would be strong consideration for coach of the year, not just for the underlying number improvement and young players improving and obviously points per game and a freaking

trophy, but just like culturally, the way they play, the way they use young players, be it from the academy or guys like Matthew Corcoran who they sort of, you know, found on the bargain bin, stuff like that. Like everything, he's pushed almost. every right button just a fantastic job and it's one of the teams that i'm like most excited to watch this winter because they actually do have a little bit of flexibility they do have probably an open dp slot with walker zimmerman's contract expiring and you know are they able to get him back on a tent like all of this is at play um but they're just in such a good such a good

spot right now it makes it fun to think about whereas eight months ago it was really depressing to think about this Nashville team. And one of the stories coming into the season was they just hadn't hit on international signings at all. And that felt like a front office issue. And now that feels like a Gary Smith issue, which opens the door to more ways for them to improve because it doesn't just have to be an in-league move and an in-league transfer. Obviously, I nailed this one. So you guys are welcome. The next one, wait, wait, one more thing. One more thing. This is the team that I want to see by Nico Securis. I think he just makes so much sense. I like that. as a ball progressor and a chance creator so that honey like honey's a 10 but like just let him be

a second forward i don't ever want to see honey dropping into the midfield next year and i think having chakiris kind of dictating things like he's the one who makes the most sense to me yeah his game's similar to shaffelberg and alex wheel so you're kind of just slotting in similar personalities across that not at all but it would be awesome to see you get some serious minutes i think that you can only do that with you 22 slot and they don't have it to give him the contract that he would want to be moved from everything from from acquisition cost contract all that like i don't think that you can get this player without a u22 slot um and yeah but you could you could open up a dp slot and go to a two four two build yeah walker zimmerin yeah

i i i still think he stays okay had a pretty good u20 world cup as well let's go to cf montreal 42 and a half points. They obviously are going to finish way below this. Me and Tom were both on the under. Doyle was on the over. Doyle, I get it. You are excited about the fantasy MLS Sickos team, but the Saputo power is stronger than that,

and there's nothing we can do about it. The Chicago Fire, 43 and a half points. All three of us went on the over there. Chicago Fire are currently on 52 points with the potential to jump into out of the wild card spot. Like they have that power this weekend. and I've finished really, really strong on this season. This is a stupid line.

Yeah, this is one of the, but this one was one of the tough ones, which was like, we don't know what it looks like yet. Really? I, like, I don't know how I ended up this low because I think we're all, like, we're all very hard. We're all big believers in Greg Berhalter,

even though he went about it this year in a completely different way than I expected. I thought he would fix the defense first and they would be kind of boring and then eventually get around to fixing the attack it has been complete opposite of that but like in retrospect this line should have been like 48 and a half i think that would have given all three of us something to to squirm about i again i also think that was fair there were there were plenty of questions we hadn't seen it yet we didn't know if they were going to use their DP spot they ended up not using the deep spot um despite the chases for namar and kevin de broina both of which were very real of course and yeah to your point i thought it was like it ends up that opening weekend

was a harbinger for the rest of their season. Like they won, they beat Columbus, what, 4-2 or whatever? And that was my view, too, that it was like, oh, they're just going to be trying to be boring. Jesus, can you remember opening weekend? I can't remember single games, man. I remember that one, because I thought that was going to be, again, like, to typify the season of, hey, we're just going to play possession, and it's going to be slow,

and we're going to be cautious because we don't have the defenders that we probably quite want yet to do the game model that we want. And it said it was wide open bomb. It looked really good, but Zincre Nagel, that was, I forget if he had debuted or not yet, but that was again a sign of things have gone for Chicago in that it was just going to be an attack first type team and a fun team they've they're they're four one and one in their last six games in MLS so of the 15 wins four of them have come in the last month or so it's come on later on for them but they're going to blow that number out of the water Aaron Ginsberg says are we really going to let Doyle skate on that C of Montreal take I don't want to spend more time on the Sabuto's sucking as owners and meddling with teams and making them worse so yeah That's the reality of what we're going to do. FC Dallas, 44 and a half points. All three of us went on the over with this one.

And I guess we all had a lot of confidence in Eric Quill at the time. And they're on 41 points. So if they somehow miraculously go to Vancouver without both of their starting strikers and the best player on the team and they win, they'll fall a half point. Yeah, they'll fall a half point behind this. This was clearly some lucho love. at the time. Yes.

And it was the Lucho-Musa connection. So the fact that the season ended with the reason they won't make the playoffs if they don't or have in any way been in trouble is because of Lucho's presence is pretty comical on all of us. They had a run of, I believe it was 10 of 11 unbeaten, pretty much exactly when they sold Lucho. Yeah, I wonder if we should have read more into the guy who stands outside the locker room says he doesn't want to be there anymore after taking a newspaper ad out saying he can't

to be there being like a negative on a team that he plays inside of. Maybe we should have read that a little bit better. Although, in fairness, Evander's done pretty well in insanity. Yeah, this happens all the time. It depends on who and where. Let me do this one real quick, because we haven't done Dallas's offseason because they haven't been eliminated. Do we think Batsar Musa plays for this team next year?

I sure hope so. I think so, too. So there was, like, where does he go back to Europe from here that he kind of either already hasn't done unless he goes at Premier League, which, again, I'm a big fan of Peter Moose's. I don't see that happening. Maybe a top of the championship type club could pay the money that Dallas are paying him. But, like, this is, he's on really good money.

But Dallas wouldn't sell if that's the case, right? Because they're not going to make money off that deal. If we're putting it in mind, how much do they pay for him? 10 million. So they would need to, like. Why not? Because he's awesome. Well, I'm saying.

Listen, they didn't want to sell Alan Velasco either, but that happened. When Brian Reynolds was sold, they didn't want to sell him at the time they did. If Peter Musa says, I want to go, what do you do? That part I understand. If he's pushing his way out, I would say on Velasco, nothing on the field, at least recently, health-wise, had proven that he was going to be worth that number ever again, where Musa feels like you're not talking about a one-time offer

that a club world cup induced paycheck is going to double down on and all of that. I would be fascinated if someone, let's just say a team in Major League Soccer, was like you know what we spent a lot of money on the senior forward from the championship who's not that good he's not on a team anymore you were willing to spend the money still i mean you could talk 25 or 30 million yeah i was going to say i don't think 15 is a godfather offer for pet or musa but like 23 might be yeah which would be fascinating to see in the cash for error uh the next team is the team right below them in the postseason right now standings rs l 44 and a half points all three of us went under on this one so all three of us will hit on this i don't know that this roster looks now like we thought it would in the preseason but all three of us were correct about the way this would work out this was 59 this is a 59 point team last year yeah it's it's baffling right to to remember that rsl were that good but they a lot of that came before they sold um was a andres gomez and like they never and they never figured out yeah they never it's right jeez i forgot that was last year like they never figured out

how to how to replicate any of that zombie or gozo has been really good but it's just i don't know they they lost so much of who they were when those guys um disappeared for one reason or another and then they've also lost the ability to to control central midfield and that's always been my concern with pablo master ony teams anyway sorry for the aside keep going no um the next team is the Portland Timbers on 44 and a half. Tom is on the over and us two are on the unders. When they had the results and then they just added like three really good or what they hope to be three really good players

and they've stalled out a little bit here. I still believe. Is this in line with your golden boot drafting of the Portland Timbers number nine that never got signed? That was last year. I know, I'm saying. He did get signed. believe there's a lot of belief in future timber signings one win in their last nine here two

in their last like 12 or 13 it's unfortunate i veld right now is probably on a goss theorem situation for next year there's he looks like a player yeah there's soccer in him but none of it connects right now it doesn't connect with his teammates and it doesn't connect in general and i think in that to costa will be a very good one and a half or one you know one a A or one B if that that if that's what ends up being, which is, I think, an ideal setup for him. So this would be the one that would shift our score going forward because it's the only one of the open ones that we were different on. So Tom is currently rooting for Portland and we're rooting for San Diego in this game if that's what we care about. St. Louis City, the next one, 45 and a half.

Me and Tom went over and Doyle went under. This was, to me, very much, the end of the year run in 2023, belief in that, belief in cohesion over unknown teams. And this is one of my issues every offseason, which is the teams that are bringing more pieces back that I've seen and have some belief in, I will choose over new pieces because it takes a lot for new pieces to fit together and it takes latency and all that type of stuff. And you don't know how many points you're going to build at that situation. St. Louis since then has fired their sporting director and has gone into a complete turmoil, have an interim coach, everything else going on with this club. so they've now fired what two coaches in less than a year span and they're on their second interim coach and they will not fall over this line.

So my rationale here was very similar to the Philadelphia stuff because I just thought that St. Louis would be like, oh, we played really well using this system and style that we've been talking about since creating the club. We bought all of the players to play high-pressing transition. Let's hire a coach that wants to play high-pressing transition and then Olaf Melberg just had the most, boring impotent style of like they they had a couple clean seats early in the season because they

were starting i don't know six centerbacks and three defensive midfielders and then marshal harnel so um it i still think the process was right on our end because why would you change the system that has been working well why would you change the system that you've been so public about this is how we want to play this is how we're going to play wait had the system been working well though better than 45 i have they had a i don't think so like they had a good first half season. And then a good second half a last year? Yeah, like they planned out of playoff.

They were overperforming their underlying significantly under John Hackworth. And it wasn't high pressing, right? It was more like transition, you know, open field, like what we see out of, out of RSL, more than what we've seen out of like Philly this year, Red Bull in the past. So I, I don't know. I just kind of believed the underlines. And I believe that, look, there, there were a couple different. cooks in the kitchen in St. Louis, right? There was a departed sporting director now who,

you know, does come from that attritional sort of German school, but then there's also a city football group guy who is supposed to be on the business side, but is maybe also on the sporting side a little bit. He is indeed. And they, the vision from the technical director who was one of the interims is maybe a little bit different. So it's like there was never any clarity with it and even though i liked a lot of the talent um it was hard to see how it was going to work together so i was pretty confident going under that one but i knew you rubes would go over even even if i set the line four points too high i want to move on to the next one because i think this one's the last big no one that the line was swung completely under okay the other ones are

failures of overestimating teams that would do better and it's the vancouver white caps we had at 45 and a half points. So for reference, that's the same as St. Louis City. 45 and a half points would put them right now in 6th in the Western Conference. And they are on the verge of clinching as the top team in the West and could finish on 66 points at the end of the season. On that Vancouver line, me and Tom went under. Doyle went over with a little bit of belief in what they could build. I know for me going back to it, there was a lot of question mark, classic.

MLS signings that had never worked out before in the Emmanuel Sabbies and Jaden Nelson's even leaning on Ralph Preso in any way that they did. And I feel like I've been burned enough that I was like, you know what? I'm not going to trust this. I'm not going to believe that all of this will land or any of this will land. And little did I know about my sweater. I got a Jesper Sorensen's sweater in the mail. I put it on yesterday on kickback committee, me and Susanna with Brian Dunsteth on that show. Yesper Sorensen is my vote right now, the manager of here, and ended up helping this team perform to their best season of all time. And then they added Thomas Butler. I would say it's more than just their best season

of all time. I think this is one of the great seasons in MLS history. If you look at their first half year before they got absolutely killed by injuries, they had one loss in all competitions until the the CCL final. And that was a, I think, a March. international date where they were playing the fire without everybody. Yep. Right? They had nobody on their roster and the fire were relatively full. And I think that was their only loss across all.

Like they beat Supriza, you know, to open the season. They, um, what they did in the Conca Cap Champions League to get to that final, they were at top of the table at like 2.3 points per game at the same time. And then to come out of that and have still more injuries, right? And to have a schedule that was absolutely crammed full and to have every reason to just see your season going to the tank the way it did for 2017 FC Dallas, 2018 Toronto FC all on down the line, and instead be here at the end of the year atop the Western Conference, looking like one of the absolute favorites to win MLS Cup, having completely revamped your play style, having developed young players. you know, as young as like 17 coming out of the next pro team, but also guys like Ralph Pryso and Jaden Nelson and Seb Burrhalter. Like every single box has been checked by Yesper Sorensen and by Axel Schuster

in that front office. They are probably my favorite team in the league to watch this year. Yes, for Sorrentson is getting my vote for coach of the year. It is like this is a team, whether they win, another trophy or not because they've already won Canadian championship, whether they win MLS Cup or not. This is a team that I will like always remember. And there'll be a model for teams where the question is like spending, what does spending look like? How can you get better? It's like them and Philadelphia are the example of like cohesion to system, belief in a system, bringing the

right pieces in. And then also like creating a platform for people we've heard about the environment inside of the team. And I think a lot of these players like the Jaden of the world who have been in up and down situations feel very comfortable in this group and the second half of the year i mean everything you just talked about doyle first half of the year unreal unprecedented the second half of the year everyone got hurt and they have been able to not just maintain because they've had to make up games bounce up the table win the canadian championship which adds a ton of other games and then continue to push with MLX next pro players i mean you could argue right now they're missing their starting center forward they've won games without their MVP candidate from

last year long pretty much the whole year they're now missing a defense defender of the year probably finalist and vassolinovich maybe was going to be one with the way he's played and they've been their tab left back they sold pedro vete in the middle of the season like it goes like manual sabi has missed time jaden nelson has missed time all year on international all summer yeah so It's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. This is the best team I've seen in MLS this year. And Thomas Mueller coming in and just being instantly one of the best players in the league

and how quickly he's fit in with that group and the vibes around the team that are matching the performance as a result. He's, again, it's been very seamless. Again, I think that there's so much potential in the partnership between him, Gould and Brian White, just because there are all smart players and they all work hard. And while you might get worried about Mueller. and white occupying similar positions, or does this mean that Ryan Gull's going to have to do even more running or be away from the center of the pitch?

They're all just so very smart that the fluidity and the movement and the possession that they're able to hold through the midfield. I'm not worried about, like, and I think that there's a new level that I didn't see when they initially signed Mueller because we didn't know if Ryan Gould was coming back. And again, there was a couple question marks, and like those all got answered immediately. And I will say to Thomas Mueller's agent,

it doesn't look stupid the numbers he was asking for before he came here right now. like we we all kind of left that it was oh my god how much do they want well yeah i think he's worth it yeah um for this vancouver team this is the one team i always remember during covid we did like the top four players of all time greatest moments whatever and vancouver was just impossible to talk about like there was vibe moments there was fun there was kendo was wastin there was pedro morales for a year but like j de merritt yeah yeah but like there's a chance if you redid this every player would be from this year's team and every moment

the Philly 7-0 Miami at home in the Conquick champion semifinal like all these things would end up being the top of the list and we've not even gotten into the playoffs let's move to these next few teams some underwhelming ones

Houston Dynamo 46 and a half points me and Tom went under Doyle you went over this was one of the teams that was tough to talk about because they sold really late on Mikael and Coco not as much and it felt like there was some stuff in the works none of that stuff came to fruition early enough and then the ones that did later on seem to have not hit so far and they are a team still sort of out to see so 46 and a half points will

finish 10 points better than what they will be at and me and Tom will get that one right and Doyle will not and then I want to go to Austin here on the same number 46 and a half me and Tom went with the over. Doyle went with the under. So Doyle just like lost in Texas right now for a little bit in the middle of this exercise. They'll finish they'll finish on 47 and a half point or they're on 47 now with the potential for more and they've clinched their spot as sixth in the West. Any big thoughts on those two teams season so far? I'll go Austin. Doyle you can take you some but first on Austin. Nico, Nico. Thanks. Thanks. Appreciate that. Well, you feel very strongly about that. If you want to if you What a change. I feel with Austin, I thought it was going to be a different way. I thought it was

going to be around Brandon Vasquez and Uzuni and Bukari. Obviously, Vasquez got injured. Uzuni, the fit has always been awkward this season. And Bukari has looked more like a wingback than a $7 million winger. Owen Wolf has been the driving force of the attack. He's the only person I trust to really unlock a defense or play the right past in the final third. Danny Pereira has been incredible. And that defensive unit, defensive structure, I think while it's not, it's not super for aesthetic, you need to give Nigo S and has a ton of credit because that was a higher that was really criticized, given how it ended in Dallas and going, like, the team opting for a rivals coach that just got fired for some of these aesthetic issues and not being able

to overcome a bad defense and having to play really cautious because if they opened up at all, Dallas, they were going to get killed because he just didn't have the players there. So for Niko Svarez to have this team that playoffs gets to the open cup final, again, it hasn't been, you know, the most watchable team in the least. but you get the results and it's it's it's just a really positive season do you're not allowed to talk about austin you have to talk about houston now do whatever you want we'll talk about austin next week i think i think maybe they should go out of their way to stop signing players from overseas i think they should know if you look at how poor the results have been from a lot of the the

spends that they have made especially especially at the top end of the roster Does Brandon Vasquez count as overseas? No, no, I'm talking about Houston. Oh, sorry. I thought you were, I thought you had ignored me and gone. You know, you literally told me not to talk about Austin. I thought you had ignored me. Yeah.

You're the, you're the CMO, man. When the CMO is against the C-sway. Yeah, yeah, okay. No, like, like Houston should really go out of their way to spend a window. To be a possession of Colorado Rapids? I mean, it's not a bad idea, right? And, like, there are guys on the rapids who are going to be free agents. It's like, hey, Houston could use a guy like that.

Because they're overseas scouting and integration of players. It's been really, really poor. If you think about it, the only hit on DPs or U-22s has been Lawrence Anali. And that's still more theory than practice. I would argue, Ache Ache, was it. It's not full scouting and unknown player. Yeah, I mean, they didn't argue. They had a Rolodex.

That's not. So it's it's look, this line was was way too high and I'm concerned about them going into going into next season. But you know, my point was that guys like Griff Dorsey who they got off the scrap heap or Artur who they signed as a free agent or Jack McGlynn, who's a cash for were all better outcomes than almost anything they've had from their overseas scouting department other than like Mikhail. That's it. I think I'm worried about the future for both of these teams. Let's move on to the next one, though. The Colorado Rapids, 47 and a half points. Me and Tom went with the over.

Doyle went with the under. So Doyle is going to be correct on this one. We will not. And I think this prediction wasn't wrong. And the reality leads to, I think, some of the stress I'm seeing from fans of, is Chris Armis the right guy? Is this team performed to their level? Is it down to the timing of,

moves and the reality of moves, right? Georgie leaving in the middle of the season and maybe nothing you can do about that, but take some time to then readjust and go out and get Paxson Aronson and build this team again. And the questions, if there's belief in this is the right group fully to do it going forward, which I think are all fair. And as you said, there's some free agents. Ted Cudy P.H.O. did not land the way I expected. I think when we did this line, I was probably like all in on that being the big move of the off season. There's so much better. They're so so obviously so much better when he's on the field. Yeah, but part of that injury for him and then part of that's opportunity.

But like even when he's healthy, he's not, he's not out there. Like they like playing Paxton Errant or excuse me, Col Bassett as a winger down the stretch, me going under on this one was, was just like frankly not having a ton of belief in Chris Armis. And I think that was a right call. I muted myself. So, okay, let's go to NYCFC next.

If you touch the button, the green button on the front, that's the mute button. Do you want to send tech support to you because they were really helpful for me? Potentially. By the way, we did the Moussa thing on cash first. I don't think this will happen, but half a Navajo would be one if I was a team that was like, I'll drop a bunch of money on a player with a little bit of a known quantity. He would be one that I would be looking at. And that cost like $10 million.

Yeah, but you're going to go out and spend $10 million outside the league on a player. are they going to be better or more productive and we haven't really seen him consistently with guys who also are talented. I'm expecting to go back to Brazil this winter. Oh, for good money. Okay. That's the expectation.

Nothing that's said or agreed or anything but just from summer coming to be back. I'm expecting him to be back in MLS 18 months after. On a damn deal on loan for RSL. NYCFC, 49 and a half points was the line.

me and Tom went under, Doyle went over. Doyle, you are the only one who was correct on this line. So the Pascal Jansson stock that you've been holding for a while comes through for you. It was less about that than it was about the spine. Like I thought the spine of this team was obviously very good. And that was enough for me to say, probably 50 points. And then I also believed in Alonzo Martinez.

Yeah. And he's actually like, well, he's closing in on 20 goals, but he could have 24 if he hit his numbers. so like there's there was enough here um i don't know i don't know why you guys like what was your rationale in going under uh maxi morales was there literally only good creative player or proven creative player at this time of uh upsetting that one that was the that was the explanation there uh the next one is orlando city 51 and a half points dude there you go i'm here for it 51 and a half points all three of us went under so all three of us are incorrect in this one um i don't remember where this

full stress was on this one with orlando at this point in the off season i would say even going over that we're not sitting at a point where it's a good season yet for orlando yeah um it's unfortunate how they've kind of backslid here um with some injuries and just some like hot and cold with louis Morial has been the tale of the season with the attack for as good as O'Heda and Pasolich have been. This is a team that it's unfortunate that they could end up here in the wildcard game, you know, on 53 points or whatever. So again, I do think in a different year, they're sitting on the same point total, but in, you know, fifth or whatever, right? Like, just east is such a gauntlet. It's difficult.

But I think this team is set up well for the future. Muriel's not going to be here long term. That'll be an open deepy spot. I really like a lot of the pieces throughout this team and the continued success shouldn't be overlooked for what is this six years in a row or whatever in the playoffs five years in a row and they've just been a good team throughout it

and maybe they had a higher ceiling than they've achieved this year I think that this is just a solid good team so this line was exactly where they finished last year they were 52 points last year you set this line of 51 and a half and then they were fourth last year so they're going to go over last year year and finished anywhere between two to four spots worse in the standings, which is partially

what the Eastern Conference is and the reality. And I think my assumption when this happened was like even if they replaced Fakutora as well and some of the holes that I thought existed at centerback, which I still think exists. And if Jensen's out, it gets even worse going into the postseason. And Poslitch has been one of the newcomers of the year. So they nailed that. They got a little bit more than Muriel than they got like. last year and I think a lot of that has helped buoy this team and yet we have McKelley doing

like full on appeals to Pereja on the show on Monday being like this club needs to progress and something needs to continue to get better you could argue it did they're one of the weirdest teams to assess in all of this Charlotte 52 and a half points was the next one that we had all three of us went on the over on this one. Doyle feels like you set a pretty good line with this. I don't know. In retrospect, it should have been two or three points higher. I feel like I didn't give you guys enough to it to think about on this one because they

were, what, 54 point team last year or something like that? 51 last year. Oh, all right. And they're 56 now, but if they did raise it a little bit. Yeah. You know, they have defensive depth. They have an excellent goalkeeper, though. He has been more up and down this season.

This was actually, I think, you know, when I'm doing it next year, I'm going to have to factor in Westwood's age and health because if he's, you know, with Adelson Melanda gone and Westwood now, what, 36, something like that, like it could end up falling apart pretty quickly. But like they've been a good team. the next team we had in here was the New York Red Bulls at 52 and a half point

and all three of us went with the over on the MLS Cup finalists coming out of here I hate myself for that I knew they were absolute frauds was this a Timo Werner no and all of us we were probably critical slash questioning of the triple Motang signing and he has not been he's been good

right like he hasn't been you know top of the end elite but he's been a good DP, like that has been a good signing. And everything else has fallen apart. Alexander Hack, the resume, the pedigree looked good. And then sometimes a guy like that just is an abomination in MLS. And it's difficult to really like... I actually think, by the way, now this is like a long track record of Bundesliga defenders struggling with Major League Soccer.

There is a weird jump there. I have like Timo Baumgartel highlights playing in my head as you're saying that. He needed more tactical schooling. I just like the run the Red Bulls made to MLS Cup last year and the the so yeah in hindsight absolutely but also their points per game and their underlying numbers when Emil Forrestberg play yeah like that didn't feel fluky the run to MLS Cup did because they completely changed their play style

I don't know if you guys remember this but they became a complete bunker encounter team down the stretch and into the playoffs and like Sondra Shorts was saying he's like this is how you win in tournament play and it's like I disagree but like he's the guy who was coaching an MLS Cups so what the fuck do I know but like

he did not bring that into this season at all he tried to evolve the team in the way that like B.J. Callahan has evolved Nashville still if you told me that Emil Forsberg was going to play 2,500 minutes and they were going to sign a DP Center for who scored 17 goals

I'd say, yeah, 55 points. I would have put my mortgage on the over. If you told me that Emil for us works at just under 2,800 minutes right now. I would have, I would have, this would have been something like this, Minnesota, Philly were the ones that I just would have been absolutely convinced of it. So here's the thing. Do we think this is all game, well, game model in Lewis Morgan getting hurt, right? Because they never had anything coming.

Yeah, they had nothing coming in off the wings, which was brutal for them all year. But coming into the year. If you were relying on Lewis Morgan, I think that's questionable roster building. And that's like, I voted this guy as a bounce back player, MVP preseason, whatever it was a few years ago. That's like a not a knock on his soccer. I think the other thing was Ila is good enough to be the like center of everything.

And I think there's a feeling there when Reyes left then that like, oh, we should be more possession because he's a good passer. And then it doesn't fit Sean Nealist. No. And doesn't really fit the midfield. And then hack was a huge miss. but the but my big thing called him an abomination yeah that was the word that tom used but my big thing coming out of the playoffs was like they had an attacking force in transition of two and a half players

that you could rely on and they went into this year with two and a half players and the idea of like okay let's add to that never happened for them and i think that's the frustration for a lot of it and then some of the other stuff fell apart carlos cornell free agent right yeah i would sign him in a heartbeat for any style of team or specifically was don't for any team the straw that stirred the drink I would if I was DC United

my first move of the off season would be signing Carlos Cornell or starting a book club three year contract Sean Johnson can explain to him the experience and what it's like and what it could lead to but you get paid maybe it's the opportunity you want let's move to the next one

one that we all got right Minnesota United 53 and a half all three of us went over doyle do you regret this number i mean obviously we we all went over and we were all correct it's too low um i didn't they they were so ridiculous on the set pieces in long throws through most of the season they were getting a goal a week off of long throws for like the entire spring it was absurd um and it was fun like getting to watch a team do something completely different and kind of break the meta and it's been really influential.

Shout out to our guy, John Mueller. He had an excellent column in the Guardian midseason talking about how this team is like outside the entire curve, top right Minnesota United when it comes to long throws. Dave's so back, mate. The entire world, this is the team that is most dedicated to taking long throws.

And you could see the number of long throws creeping up in MLS week after week after week and then an article comes out and it shoots up across the league. It's wild. But it's like they have a really good defense. They have a style of play that I don't entirely love but they are committed to it.

And if you get buy-in one through 30 on the roster to that degree, you're going to win games on the margins and that's what they've been doing almost all year long. I think if we, when we did this, I would have guessed that Yaboa had the season that Pereira's had and they would have been flipped. Shout out Wes, West Burdine, sending me a thousand texts before the preseason

saying, what, did you think that Ypahua's going to win? Do you think he's going to win Golden Boot? Kelly, does he have a chance at MVP? No, Wes, he does not. I think you guys, but Taniola was she starts in La Liga, which is a whole other situation. And it's been a fascinating year for Minnesota United. They feel like a team that's built for the playoffs in saying that. They lost that home to Austin and an open cup semi.

final with the opportunity to host a final, which is the big opportunity that I thought would prove that Minnesota needs to win this weekend. Like they need to go into into the postseason with a little bit of momentum because they have lost their way since that loss in the open cup semifinals. Was it semis or quarters? Semis. Is it semis against Austin? Yeah. And if they won, they would have hosted the final. Yeah. Minnesota, they can't fall down from fourth. They're on 58 points, but with a win, depending on what goes on in front of them, they could jump to third. They could still jump to second if San Diego fails to win in their final game against Portland.

If San Diego ties, Minnesota, the highest they could go is third. But either way, as Doyle said, finishing on a win. I mean, getting out of that fourth spot as well. Not playing the Sounders three times in a playoff series. Yeah. I think they would be playing the Sounders twice, to be honest with you. That would be probably the first round matchup. I'd be most excited about.

Yeah, it would be a pretty special one. Let's go to a couple teams that maybe won't be in the playoffs, but we had up in the top six on this standings. We start with one that will be, the Columbus crew, 53 and a half. All three of us went under. This is the last team that's still open. So we're waiting on this final weekend to see whether or not we are correct or not. Columbus on 51 points.

So they would need to win this weekend to jump over this number. Either way, feels like it's pretty close. Before we give ourselves credit for all possibly being right, we all also said, like, yeah, no, they're going to be really good when it comes to their playoffs. This is more of a regular season thing, and they're going to be a contender for sure in the playoffs. And the opposite's going to happen. Like, they might go over the number if they win here. And I don't think any of us are taking them as a serious cup contender.

I want to push back on that a little bit. But it's, it's tough. What I'll say is if they play on Decision Day, and then in the playoffs, the way they played their last two outings, man, nobody's going to have fun. Nobody's going to have fun going up against this team, even if they really only have one goal score at this point. They are limping to the finish line.

Again, just to stress this, if they finish on 54 points, they would have been fourth last year in the Eastern Conference, and they might finish on 54 points and still finish in a wildcard game this year, which is the change. around them that they can't really control, even though they've been underwhelming

for large stretches of the season. The next two are the big ones. Lance United, 54 and a half points. Tom with the over and David and Doyle with the under. Tough. Oh, my God. Just,

what could I, what could I have put the number at? I don't know. I take the under. I was selling on this. He's the scoops guy. He loves a sign in on this, man. Was it because you were reading Tom Bogart from Give Me Sport

saying that Atlanta United have won the off season? Do you just like copy and paste that every single year? I think I even went meta too where I was like, I know that we've said Atlanta and I were back before. We've always been dumb. But no, they're actually really back this time. You guys are idiots. I'm enlightened.

Oh, my God. I mean, to be fair, I thought that they were going to finish on like 53 points. It's not like I thought that they would be winning the wooden spoon this weekend. Garland Lagoe, one of the best sporting executives in league history. Chris Henderson, widely respected. They had so much success together in Seattle. They have one of the most robust front offices in scouting departments because they spend a lot of money on this.

And they, like, all of that is great. Head coach, they bring in a former MLS Cup winner. On the field, they spend, again, literally more money than anybody has ever spent before. They rework kind of everywhere on the pitch. McGillameroon comes home. It's all beautiful. The one-time league record signing is getting benched by Jamal Tiari. Going to go on a limb and say this hasn't quite worked out as we kind of thought for Emmanuel Latte-Lat.

Everybody seems to hate each other. Mateus Click, fourth D.P. Gone by mid-season. They complete defensive overall in the summer, and it didn't get any better, literally, at all. Is there one positive thing from the season? Legitimately, is there one positive thing? Hibbert? Maybe Hibbert, maybe Cooper Sanchez, but, like, you have to squint to find anything at all.

Yeah. So, so if they spent upwards of $50 million on their three DPs, and this is taking away salary, because Miguel Omerone is one of the highest paid players in the league, and so is Marantzou-Latel. I think all three of them are top them. If they were to try to sell those three players this winter, and I'm going to assume that at least two of them they're going to try to sell. If they spent $50 million on fees, what do you think they would get back?

15? And like, I'm not saying that. Like, I'm being, that is a, like, 20, maybe? Like, oh. 20 seems like a lot. Yeah. 20 seems like a lot.

I can't imagine them. Unless it's, like, one of those, one of those desperate championship teams, like, I think Sheffield United is in, like, the relegation zone. They rehire just Wilder for the 19th time. right like like or southampton or something like that like they say oh lot they lot he's a proven goal score we know he could do it you know on a on a rainy wednesday in coventry um so like

here's 15 million quid mate like that that is that is their only get out of jail free card um it's i never in a million years thought it was going to be this bad that's crazy man that's crazy um and again the path forward again i think it's got to start with the coaching change and then it's got to start with who do we need to pay to like can we send alexi moranchu highlights to die i don't know turkey you get two buyouts which one is money you have to eat on some of these bigger ones you also have tam players on this roster that you don't want on this roster so it can't just be dps which i think makes things more complicated it's so my guess is latte lath is back next year because if you had any belief in him

I don't know. You've got to try it and see what you can get. I would too. I don't think coach, honestly. Like he can't be. And I don't think

Almi Roan you really can move. No. Like where is he going to want to go that's going to pay anything? So that one you're kind of stuck with. But there's a lot. Use the U22 slots. I know golf is on the record

saying that like these aren't like we don't we shouldn't be looking at this as like high leverage. Like you know, there's so many rolls of the dice. Take a roll of the dice. They have all three spots open is that when mascara is on loan.

It can't hurt. So for me, it can, though. It can, though. Well, like, it's just opportunity cost. Like, it's not going to make things worse, Doyle. That's what I say. They might win the spoon. So, so you move on from Moran, too.

Move on from Moranthew. Use the cash for, don't try to go out of the league again, I guess. Like, I don't know, pick whoever your favorite 10 is. That could be attainable or you think could be attainable. Because I don't think we thought George Milovich was. again people agents kind of speculating what do you think it would cost

to get Honey Mukhtar from Nashville I don't think that there's a number but like I didn't think that there was a number for my love of it so I don't I think you just start calling all your like the players you like most in the league and say hey what would it cost here and that's a good way to start with the floor

and then I guess you just hope that any you know pick two out of the five centerbacks that they signed are good and then pick two of the five midfielders that they signed are good and like it's still a lot of ifs and a lot of hopes and even with like, I don't know, just... So they're going to buy out six players on two by...

That's why I'm saying you have to hope that two, any two of those position groups work because, like, I think there's one defender on loan and then you get pretty much you're locked into a lot of these deals. Columbus fans are trying to ship Gosdog there right now, which I don't think will make things any better for this team.

Before we move on, real quick, congratulations to Brad Guzan on an incredible career. A fellow ball. one of the heroes of the community and has been for a while I'd argue his Chivas USA team is one of my favorite teams in Major League Soccer history to watch

came in what? Same draft as Sasha Klushton, right? Both of them came. I think so. Maybe the year before, I think it was the year before Sasha. If you know, USA doesn't have enough love him. No, not at all. Mark Delgado the loan, I think. Zavaleta still. And Eric Zadaletta. Yeah. Still hanging

on from all of that, but you know, U.S. national team player, big time player in Europe. I went and saw his Aston Villa team play a UEFA Cup game against a Lithuanian side in Birmingham one time. And everyone was really nice to me because at the time they liked Randy Lerner as their owner because he was going to save them

and Brad Guzzan as their goalkeeper. So it was a good week for me in Birmingham hanging out having an American accent for one time only. Let's move on to our second most depressing team here. The LA Galaxy, 54 and a half points. It's me and Tom with the under. Doyle, you both set this line and you went over. Right.

It just felt like they won MLS Cup without Ricky. They had Marco Royce. They, like, they had figured something out with the defense because they played that high line with Amira Garces. Like, they only asked him to defend in the open field. They weren't asking him to defend in the box. They had some exciting young players, like Edwin Serio had come along. John McCarthy was really good last year

And like none of it worked They did not win their first game In any competition this year Until June 1st They lost a game You guys remember this They lost a game this year In which they did not allow a shot

Not a shot on goal They did not allow a shot And they still lost 1-0 to a sporting Kansas City team that is just like terrible. It's the weirdest half season I've ever seen any team had. The second is since

they won that game on June 1st cross all competitions, they are 10 wins, eight losses, six draws plus eight goal differential. They have qualified for the Concaf Champions Cup by finishing third in the league's cup. And they gave Toluca hell.

Toluca's a wagon. They gave to Luke a hell in the champion One's Cup only fell apart over the last eight, ten minutes of that game. They developed guys finally, like Elijah Winder, Harbor Miller, Chris Rindov, who was really good in Ventura County. And they're like, finally, Greg Vanney was like, oh, I guess I can use guys who are good next pro. It turns out he's good in MLS, too.

That's been a longstanding frustration. Right? Within the team. There's reason, yeah, understandably. There is reason to be optimistic again about the Galaxy, especially with Ricky coming back. It's just like, holy shit, man. The first four months of the season, they were the worst team on the planet. They won MLS Cup without Ricky.

He had to give up his ACL to get them there. And then turns out they beat a team who also did make the playoffs. And we fully overestimated on. and they did so on the back of an all-time performance from Gasone Brugman, who's not even on the club, in the club anymore. So it turns out, yes, a lot of that stuff went down the drain. And maybe Maya Yishito won't age as well. And maybe if you replace John McCarthy for no reason

with a goalkeeper who has a negative post-shock XG that things might go down the drain. And the LA Galaxy competitive with Atlanta United for the most underwhelming season this year, although they may have kept FC Dallas out of the playoffs. I don't I don't think it's at all competitive with Atlanta United. It's not the galaxy because the galaxy had a really good second half of the season and Ricky's coming back and like there's a clear pathway to them being a 60 point team next year.

Yeah, we think that they're going to be totally fine and not just fine like good next year like pretty immediately and yeah because of the knock on effect that Ricky has on so many players. Yeah. The last four we have here and because they're not going to go out and sign Zaka again. well they may not have to which is part of what makes things better they were up against this cat monster as a winning team that had poorly set up their roster going into that and now they've been able to reset some things and move things on lafc 56 and a half points was the next team me and tom went with the under doyle you went with the over why did you guys go with the under i have no idea that's what i was about to look at and trying to

playing in that's a really high number i figured that so um again i'm we're losing on this one but like they're not gonna top the conference they're the process was good i still believe that i still believe that like i toilet if they win are you sad about this number because you'll be six points off if they win no because i'm the number was good because you rubs win under like that's the whole point it's not to get closest to the final score it's like can you get the stupid money we We didn't know, I got the stupid money. We didn't know that Steve Chirondola was going to do a full, like, win one for the Gipper in the middle of the season.

Right. And say, like, just to save the season, I am going to announce my retirement that I'm leaving this club. But also. It also helped that they sign the most expensive player in MLS history. That's been good. But also, like, they evolve the game model a little bit. Like, they're a team that uses possession much better this year than they have, I think,

since 2020. They were, like, they made. John Thornton is one of the two or three best CSOs in the league because it's not just going out and like, yeah, we're in L.A., we could sign Sun. It's also like, Kosei Tafari is really good. And it's not working for him in Dallas and we could steal him. And there were 28 other MLS clubs that could have done that. LASC is the one who did it.

And if you watch that, look at what's happened since Aaron Long got hurt. Like Kosi Tafari looks exactly like, even better. than he did a couple years ago when he played his way into a national team camp. Stealing Mark Delgado, again, there were 28 other teams who could have taken Mark Delgado. Maybe. I mean, they definitely, they definitely had the inside track because he's an L.A. kid, but, like, he didn't want to leave the galaxy, man.

And wherever he goes, his team wins. So, like, they're just really, really good. And I'm betting, I was betting on the infrastructure more than, on the high-end talent. And it turns out, though, that the high-end talent is absolutely incredibly... They were going to end up on 55-58 points, even if they hadn't signed Sun.

Because, like... That feels unlikely. Sun and Buonga set the record for two goal contributions over a nine-game period. They were going to... Post-Jurud, they were going to be better. They were going to get a million points out of those games anyway, because that's what L.AFC does when they hit the soft part of schedule.

They just pound R.S.L. midweek? Every single, yes, every single, every single year. They, if you look at, there's like a seven game winning streak every single year for LAFC. And it's like, oh, they were just beating all the teams that suck ass five two. So it's like, it was just a little more so this year because they have son of, you know, he and Bwanga have this like telepathy. Uh, the real proof of John Thorington's ability is that he signed Matthew Schwanmer. Like that is one of those, that's a world-class player

that he was able to steal off the cap and bring in to change the reality of this club. All right, let's finish up here. Our last three, we have the Seattle Sounders at 59 and a half points and we have FC Cincinnati at 59 and a half points. We all went over on both of these. And so we are all incorrect on Seattle.

We are all correct on Cincinnati. On the Seattle side, I think the Club World Cup and League's Cup is a portion of this. injuries are a portion of this as well as Tom likes to keep saying I'll still trust the process I if Seattle Sounders wins 2025 MLS Cup I will not be surprised and that's the team that they have set up right now I would agree I would agree this is like they they went deep they obviously winning leagues cup having the club world cup that was a lot over over the summer and injuries picked up and rolled on now with the national team which is awesome to see

but it was just too much to kind of overcome on a week-to-week basis in MLS and particularly now that like they're they've I wouldn't know if they would if you how long they've really been locked into the fifth seed but it's not like they're really jockeying for position over the last you know several weeks here I mean they were up until league's cup and I think they put everything they had emotionally into that league's cup final and then they they like I like I thought coming out of that it was either going to go they were going to blaze through the remainder of the schedule and just take that momentum or there was going to be a letdown. And obviously there was going to be a letdown. Four game wins that run there from starting in mid-September. And that's when they fell out of the race for like second or third in the conference. But this team, look, going into the season,

the argument was for their week-to-week consistency more so than their top-end talent. And what they showed is that they have the top-end talent. talent to go out and win a trophy again. But the week-to-week consistency, because of the injuries and because they were getting pulled in one direction with the Club World Cup and then another direction with Leagues Cup, like, the week-to-week consistency was really hard to find. That said, like, there's just not a better org.

There's just not a better org in this league at all of the above, right? They just like, I don't know. Like L-A-S-G. Say his name. Say Paul Rothrock's name. Say it right now. Tom? Paul Rothr?

What are the chances that, what are the chances that Paul Rothrock is on the Sounders next year? I don't know, man. I think a lot of teams should be trying to get them and I think Seattle should obviously be trying to re-sign him. I'm very curious to see how that one plays out here. Yeah.

The only question on the org stuff is the like, Jesus Ferreira. I mean, Paul Aurella, there was nothing you could do about. He got hurt of like whether they made the right calls on those players but inside of the restrictions they had they did as well as they could this I guess me questioning better org is I would include ownership in organization and while they're stable and consistent they did not take a risk to try and get massively better for the

global cup oh see Ryan can't I I just think in terms of um getting ferrera and ariola that was the risk they took. And that's great inside a more quick. No, it was a smart calculated. It was a smart and calculated one because it did keep the floor high and it did, like, it was a way of soaking up those minutes. Like, and what we've seen from the way they played at the Club World Cup and the way they played at League's Cup, they might have a higher ceiling than anybody in MLS.

And they, because of Jordan Morris hitting those bonuses, they did not have an open deepie spot to go spend 10 million, even if they wanted to end. again, they weren't going to it to your point, Pocas. And that's where I still think of you look at this and you say, if Albert Rusnak is the DP 10 that you're going to sign, it's a different stratosphere and it didn't give you a chance to potentially push through a Club World Cup group that they played really well in. And that was top end talent that they didn't have to get over the line.

And maybe if Jordan Morris is healthy, they do. And I'm wrong about all of this. But whatever. Let's talk about this next week when we get into Seattle more. let's finish off fc cincinnati 59 and a half points we all went over and inter miami is was the top team um in your ratings at 65 point five tom went under and me and doyle went over absolutely casuals of course the lame stream media is just looking at miami blind over you could have said that at 79 points and clowns went over okay uh Cincinnati finishes on on 62 which i guess means we all

got that one right. Yeah, yeah. And weirdly, since he's like, I don't feel, I don't feel, not the season we would before. I don't feel right calling it, like, disappointed, but like it just never has felt like they've hit what their peak is the entire season. Again, those defensive numbers, I think is what's most drawing. Like, even, like, again, like things being a little bit slower and clunkier in the attack, like, it's not quite what we thought. But, again, for me, like, I thought that they would be absolutely choking teams defensively and that it wouldn't. matter if they were putting up huge like xG numbers because every game it's either a shut

out or one goal against and it just hasn't really played like that and that's been a surprise for me and and i keep continued to say all season like no no like they're just going to find it it it makes too much sense which is not happen well at the last match day of the season they have not found that yeah we could be we could be looking at a second round playoff series between these two teams right now Cincinnati ahead on total wins on 62. points tied between second and third in the Eastern Conference. So Cincinnati, control the destiny there to host that game and home to Montreal. So the ability to host that game, which would be a one game knockout at that point.

Someone gives me recognition that what I said was correct about the MLS playoff format that I'm not sure of right now. That will happen in somewhere in January when we get to round two. And we'll be here to cover all of it on soccer wise. We're very excited for the post. season genuinely excited for it to just start and inter Miami 65 and a half they won't be able to hit that mark um as tom said me and doyle went with the over tom went with the under they if they win this weekend would be half point below that so doyle i think that was a pretty good line coming out of last year into messy's third year as head coach and sporting director of into miami as

he continues to build that roster going forward all right that is our review of all things over under we were going to talk about next gen white pages in college soccer for a little remember when i was like oh we'll do some teams quickly and then it's like an hour and 20 minutes later that was never going to happen that was never going to happen and i shouldn't have been as hopeful as i was about it if you have not seen this go out and just google next gen white pages it is a group of consultants that was put together with a lot of people who represent different parties in the world of soccer like you have agents. You have people who are executives across USL and MLS, US soccer. You have coaches. You have people who are just professionals outside of the sport who played college soccer. There is a gap.

There is no players on it. And this is not a governing body. So this is purely recommendations coming. But US soccer put this together as a way to try and drive a potential fix for college soccer or potential safe of college soccer. However, you want to word. it as college sports continue to change. And I think for many people, college soccer has become less relevant to the pyramid and structure in the U.S., as well as the development pipeline. We had Sasha Sorovsky and Brian Weiss on this show a couple weeks ago in an interview, which I'd say go back and listen to.

They got a chance to talk about it. Doyle, I know this is something we've discussed, and I know it's something that we are both super interested in. Tom wishes that I had pressed the stop button 30 seconds ago. Let him out of here. Overall, the recommendations are kind of what we expected. One of the big ones is that players get a second chance at college soccer, so players can sign MLS and X-Pro or homegrown deals at a younger age,

and if it doesn't work out, can then go and playing college soccer, which is something that foreign players sort of can do right now, but Americans can't, which has been bizarre and has led to the marshals and vermonts of the world, winning national titles with mainly international teams. there is the fall spring schedule so splitting the schedule out which makes less games at one time that is the biggest one that is the biggest one period if college soccer goes from and i think sasha talked about it right sasha and brian talked about it like if college soccer starts going from you know late august to um you know late november early december and then you take december january off and then you start up again with two and a half weeks of training camp in february and then go february to late april and then go february to late april You get 28, 30 games with a week in between. You give the kids time to actually be student athletes. You get them more training.

You get them more time between games, which is all that is better physically. And it's better in terms of technical and tactical schooling. And it's just getting the NCAA to care about that. Getting the NCAA to say, oh, it doesn't, like it's not 19, 12 we can have two parts of the calendar for the same sport and like everything else it pales in comparison to getting that done yeah i would say the contract stuff is big because yeah oh fair yeah it gives a huge opening to domestic players and gives this opportunity which should exist which is at this point with nil these players are borderline professional across all sports and soccer is set up where you come

out of a professional academy. To me, one of the biggest things about college soccer is there are 213 high-level sports programs that you shouldn't just flush down a toilet. There are training facilities and coaching staffs and fan bases. There's everything. We will never find every player all the time. And there could be people who are negative about our youth structure and say it's because we're bad at what we do.

But look at the German national team. Look at the English national team. Players fall through the cracks. Having as many nets as you can to catch those players. players seems like a really good thing to do. And that doesn't even include future coaches and refs or executives who care about soccer, who will have a long time soccer career that they can then tap back into and help grow the game or people that just become passionate about the sport and teach

their kids about it or coach their kids, whatever it is. We're talking about 213 soccer facilities and setups that could exist. And if you bring in all these players, you take away a lot of the jeopardy of deciding, do I want to sign a homegrown deal for $32,000 when I'm 16 years old because a pro team tells me I should and then ruin the opportunity to go to college afterwards on a scholarship or play college soccer, which is also an experience Brianna Pinto was on her show. She's from Raleigh. She's like, my dream was to play for UNC women's soccer team.

Like there wasn't pro in there. That was my dream. And that should be the case for some players. And it shouldn't have to be this like rock and hard place conversation and discussion, which obviously is how I feel about all of this. But the season stuff is massive. A player gets hurt, an ankle injury, two and a half weeks. They miss five, seven games in that three-week span.

And then how do you assess them as a pro team and what's their future and all of that is like a ridiculous setup to have? All right. No notes. No, thanks you. The other big thing is the regionalization of it, which Brian Weiss said is the big part of the selling point to NCAA.

It will make it cheaper. So instead of playing a Big Ten, now has UCLA and I don't know name another school in the East Coast I don't know who's in these conferences because Rutgers a big 10 team yes instead of having that it will just be regionalized it will come out of conferences there will be this pro rel inside of this which boof the internet's going to be stoked about that phrase and the ability to do that well you'll have elite local teams and then regionalize local teams and I you know there is my understanding is there's would be an ability to bounce between them based off performances and it's also just

better look as you con fan i went through the the de-regionalization of of watching my sports teams when your rivals are houston tulsa and tulane exactly it sucked like there were no traveling fans there were like the games didn't matter and you felt it even as a fan and if you talk to any of the players in any of the sports from that era they felt it too and then you know five years ago getting back into the big east and you know the the hockey team getting part of um america like like all of that suddenly you you get the feeling that the games matter again and that is a huge thing um for development of high level players is like it can't just be like what's your taka score like the dude sitting in the Balkans deciding whether or not your first touch is good like you need to

play in games where you where you have to win you you have to have that competitive edge it can't just all be technique and um i think some of that has been a little bit lost and i think that's another thing that speaks to like like vermont played 20 games against their next door neighbors last year just because that's the the conference that they're in and you saw that come through in winning time in in the nca tournament that's up box i guess i did have notes nice um two i think of the more controversial pieces that might come out of this and again this isn't rules. These are just recommendations. One is this thought of turning this U-23 league that plays other teams outside of college soccer. So there is a recommendation

for like this spring tournament where you bring MLS Next Pro or USL League One or reserve teams from overseas over. And there's talk about that on the women's side as well, which by the way, most of this is recommendations for men's soccer, not women's soccer, because it lives in a different existence. And from the people I've talked to on the women's soccer side, like, we're fine. Like the SEC is like the fourth best soccer league on the planet right now. Yeah. We're not the ones who need to be fixed.

There's some Title IX stuff in there as well where there's funding that you get and it matches across college football, which is the big moneymaker and you have equal roster spots and scholarships and all of that. I think there can be tweaks to make sure we're developing the best players through the women's game. But I can understand people on that side saying like, let's see how this works for you, a schedule shift and eligibility shift, whatever. And then we can start to test it and bring it on to our side.

That's one of them. And then I believe there's another piece in which players can go sort of play with pro teams for the summer, which is what you see in USL too, but those are not fully professional teams. There's some positives, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal to have unpaid interns. Yeah. So, yeah, you want to see a player. You want them to trial. You want to get them to know. You want to get to know them.

That's all great. I don't know that you get free labor to run an MLS next pro league. that players don't really want to play in and doesn't pay enough and your excuse is, well, these guys want an opportunity and want to show themselves. Anything else?

Any other notes? So, guys, tell me if this is not possible or just really, really dumb. Could there be a scenario in which college teams can be entered into the U.S. Open Cup? Sasha said on this show, so I'm glad you listen.

Appreciate that. It would be impossible because of the schedule right now because college teams won't play in the summer and Open Cup goes through the summer. Yeah. All right. It would be cool.

idea and then i think sasha made a joke about flipping the schedule faster than mLS which would be amazing after all the years mLS has had this conversation there's still there's still words of data if it happened the way these rules are being set up in this nil era and all of this there is the possibility to put college teams on a field with full professionals and it not ruin eligibility so you could start to find ways which is what this tournament i think is supposed to be in the spring is like let's shift college soccer from its own entity into the pyramid and say we are the best quote unquote reserve a u23 league in this country and sasha's argument would be in the world because it would be really the only one with backing of unc college soccer

club world cup FIFA is going to step in and get it gone that's that's all we need time we're actually probably going to add like 30 more games to the season um round one of the nca is going to be best of nine. Yeah. The, the 98 team tournament. We've got brackets coming out on the MLS, USL, and NWSL side as the playoffs approach. Thank you to all of you for being here. Thank you to anyone who made it through to the end of this conversation.

Shout out to the college soccer sickos who were like, I got to get to go to college. Got said 90 minutes. God said 90 minutes and I took the over. So that's another one in. I think I've blown through like three meetings while we've been on when we said we would start at X time, which we didn't. And then we would said it would be quick. So Doyle, always fun to have you here.

Thank you for joining us. Subscribe to a sub-sack. These together. Boom. Tom with the mic drop right at the end. Thank you to all of you for listening. Thank you to everyone who is in the chat interacting with us this whole time. And we'll talk to you all again.

See you all in the Discord. I'm going to be able to