SoccerWise - Ricardo Moreira (Orlando City) CSO On MLS Chasing Brazil, What If Signings, Growing MLS Acads + USMNT/WNT Recaps

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

The holiday weekend has begun in the US so Tom & David sat down with Orlando City GM & Sporting Director Ricardo Moreira. He talks about the growth of the Brazilian league, how far MLS sits behind it, and what the league could do to catch up. Then he dives into some stories of his "what if" signings that never happend, growing OCSC's academy, and the goals for 2025. Before all of this though David runs the rule back over the big international games on Wednesday night for the USMNT & USWNT.2:00 USMNT Gold Cup Semifinal Reaction7:00 Mexico Knocks Off Honduras10:15 USWNT 3-0 Win Over Canada17:05 Ricardo Moreira Interview Soccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

Hey everybody, welcome back to Soccer Wise and happy early July 4th to any of you who are celebrating. We're going to be off for live shows for the rest of this week, but we've got to have a great episode coming up for you in this one, we are going to talk to Ricardo Marrera, Chief Soccer Officer of Orlando City originally came from Brazil to play college soccer went back worked as a lawyer, became a sporting director in Brazil, and then was brought over by Greg Berhalter actually, and worked with the Columbus crew and eventually landing with Orlando City has been elevated to the head position on the soccer side over the last

few months as Luis Muzzi is moving into the ownership group. And of course, all of this alongside Oscar Pereja, but we had a really good conversation, not just about Orlando City, an opportunity to sort of get his background coming from Brazil, seeing the game in the Americas from outside the US and now inside the US about where MLS sits in the hierarchy, what it can do to get a little bit closer, what Brazil has done that has allowed the league there to grow immensely over the last 20 or so years. Always the national team was a point of pride and obviously is one of if not the greats but the league was not always the same situation. And now we're seeing at the club World Cup, how dominant Brazilian teams are.

We've seen it in Copa Libertadores for almost 10 years now of just pure domination for Brazilian teams. So we talked all about that. We talked about academies, youth structure, playing young players, the future of the game, as well as Orlando City specifically. So we've got all that coming up. We mentioned on the last show that Sean Francis would be on not able to make that interview happen. So that's something to look forward to later on and all of our NWSL interviews got pushed to next week with the players not being around

the team not able to get it done. But we've got some really good stuff lined up that I'm excited for the euros has kicked off. And of course, the US women's national team knocked off Canada on Wednesday night three zero in DC. But let's start with the US men's national team, because they are the ones that are headed to a final the US beating Guatemala to one in the semi finals in St. Louis to head to the gold cup final in which they will face off for the eighth time against Mexico, which is of course, the great rivalry in this region. And I'm very excited for that game. That game is coming up at 7pm Eastern time on Sunday night in Houston, and energy

stadium for the US it was the same lineup for this game as it was against Costa Rica. We are now seeing with Mauricio Pochettino, he is trying to lean on any sort of stability he can. Greg Boralter did the same for the most part. When teams won, there was very little changes even if we felt from the outside like different assets would work specifically against different opponents or to give other opportunities. For the most part, these coaches don't want to rock the boat if they don't have to they have so little time together Maybe there'll be a debate on some of it now going forward Max Arfsten once again Is the center of attention every time this US team plays creating chances as well as Giving up chances on the other side

And so I think there is still the question of what is the balance and where he fits. But the star for this one, of course, Diego Luna, and you just see with him how ready he always is that opening goal, he reacts quickly, his first touch is clean, it sets himself up for the finish, not everyone scores that goal. Most people, I think struggle with that first touch, and therefore lose the opportunity to score the goal. And so that was a big moment for this team and a big moment for him as well. First international goal for Diego Luna. Didn't have to wait long for his second international goal. Gets his second goal about 10 minutes later in the 15th minute and the crowd was bumping. I think it was a great balance between US and Guatemala fans. And so there was just a constant buzz and constant noise was bumping. I think it was a great balance between us and Guatemala fans. And so there was just a constant buzz and constant noise in the building. You could see videos of both fan bases sort of celebrating outside the stadium before the game. And this is one of the great like temples to the game that we have now. And Luna on the second goal

just showing his quality and his confidence. That's the Diego Luna we see with RSL week in a week out, he can drive the game forward from that left attacking position. He's comfortable coming inside, he can shoot with both feet. He's super confident. And it was even the goal that he was able to create in the previous game against Costa Rica with the deflected shot. Again, confidence belief is able to strike it cleanly causes chaos. And it was the perfect start for the US and you saw with Guatemala, the crowd get behind them, the confidence, the energy that they were able to fight back against Canada in the last game from a one zero deficit.

So that second goal huge for the US. But Guatemala fought back once again, they had all of the chances to close out the first half after the goal from Luna in the 15th minute and The US was struggling to survive Matt freeze after the star performance in the previous game Not his normal self He made a lot of the saves but they weren't as clean as you'd like ball bouncing in front of him struggling to get it up cleanly poor decision making at times or execution in the build out. And then I think you saw

that cascade through the rest of the team and just a lack of connection in a lot of important moments. Building out of the back you just saw one you know, whether it was Arfsten or Reem or Richards think they had a quick drop pass or think they had a quick link up or a one two and the midfield there in front of them turning and going away the moment they went to hit the pass. And I think there was a lot of moments like that, which is unfortunate. This deep into a tournament where you're thinking, okay, now this team gets to play together, it's going to get better and better. That didn't always feel the case in this game.

I think that's where it made it hard to kill off Guatemala, Guatemala able to continue to fight back. They get the goal to cut it to two one. And the US brings on Walker Zimmerman late to help close things down. They bring on John Tolkien as well. Trying to bring more defensive focus to the team. I don't love that all the time. I think you are playing one way and bringing a third center back in bringing a left midfielder who is really a you know left back in you kind of change the shape against for your own team and it's hard to

find comfort and so I think it's an emergency move. I guess you could say it worked in this one although they concede the goal in the 80th minute to old Jerez Kabar one of the many MLS Academy players that we've talked about in this Guatemala team, he and Kimi Ordonez, both of them, MLS next players next pro have come into the professional side through the MLS Academy born in the US, two difference makers that link up on that goal. And we talked on the previous show about how cool it is how it's strengthening CONCACAF. But the US able to hang on and Mauricio Pochettino has talked about it and I think he's right. It's a chance for these players to learn to suffer, to be under pressure and they've gotten all of that so far in these two previous games and they're going to get even more of it in

Houston against Mexico. Mexico hangs on against Honduras, Honduras not super threatening in this game. I thought Mexico maybe unfairly had the second goal pulled off. Raul Jimenez gets the first goal, his first goal of the knockout rounds. They are able to keep a pretty consistent team for Mexico. Cesar Montes returning into the starting lineup, coming off suspension. Gallardo suspended for this one. So he was out. So you'd expect to see Gallardo come back next game, but also Montes get the start. And that is the backline. I think the best backline that this Mexico team feels like they have. And most of the attack has pretty much set itself. Alexis Vega, continuing to be dangerous for them.

Roberto Alvarado has been really, really strong for this Mexico team and has gotten a number of the starts in the attack. And the big story has been Gilberto Mora, 16 years old, the youngest starter for the Mexican national team, they hope he is the future. And so they're really, really excited about what they've seen from him helped create Jimenez his goal in this one. And there is a lot of threat with this Mexico team, it will be fascinating now to watch this final which team will take more possession which team will try and dictate things with the ball. For the US you know you have the ability to stretch the field over the top with

Ajamong, Malik Tillman is really good in transition as well but they don't always this US team use the ball to their advantage at the best. So where is the balance of finding you know, playing comfortably sitting in, having chances in transition, but not losing so much of the game that you're under too much pressure, and you're creating too or allowing too many chances to your opponent. And for Mexico, I think what we always see in these matchups is even if they don't want all of the ball, even if they don't want to play higher up the field, the crowd is going

to push them. And so I would expect coming out the gate that Mexico plays that little bit higher of a game, they have a little bit more of the ball, Gallardo and Arajo, they're at their best going forward from those fullback position. So they'll be pushing Alvarez sort of covering in between. And I think that is the way this one plays out. And I think it fits both these teams styles. But this is the best game these two teams are probably going to play until the World Cup, a truly competitive game against a truly competitive opponent. Everything else is going to be a friendly and yes, you're going to value those. And yes, these teams need to show themselves at their best. But this was why they

were so excited about the gold cup. I think this is why Pochettino sort of wanted the one roster and didn't want to bring Christian Polisic is like to train this team for tournament like moments and this is your opportunity to do it. For the US they would have loved to have played Canada I think in the semi final doesn't happen. But now they get the opportunity against Mexico in this one and it's going to be a big one. So that one Sunday, 7pm Eastern time we'll have the weekend recap for you after that one, just so that we're able to sort of get it all together. Coming out of the weekend, the other big game last night, the US women's national team knocking off Canada three zero at rowdy field in

DC, and a three and Oh, perfect window for this US women's national team. This was the toughest matchup of the week, not just dictated by the scoreline of the two Ireland games are four zero, this one's three zero, but the way it played out, Canada had more chances, had more possession, and was more dangerous than Ireland was in either of the games. But there is still clearly a gap between these two teams. And so to be able to say that with this US team that's coming out, and you could argue not its best 11 available or with them. Naomi Germer, of course, the only European based player in the team, triple espresso, obviously not playing soccer right now. So unavailable to this team

in the US and still looked really, really good. They get the first two goals offset pieces. So that's something Emma Hayes will be really happy about seeing because this is a team that should be dominant on set pieces that should be a game changer for them. So it's good to bring that back into your team. But in the open field, Alyssa Thompson, I think at this point already couldn't be the best player on a trophy winning team, whether it's an Olympic gold or a World Cup or conca calf, W, whatever it is, I think Alyssa Thompson's already that good, she is able to affect space

in ways very few players can. There are balls, teams play, you know, her teammates play through where you're thinking, that's a poorly hit pass that Thompson cuts across a player or is able to accelerate at that last second, there's space that she creates or uses that doesn't feel like it's there. Whether it's kick and run where you're thinking, ah, this is a high level pro game. Like if she kicks that ball into space, there's going to be a center back covering, but Thompson's a little bit quicker. And then her touch is so clean right now. She's able to manipulate it to put herself back in situations where she can use her advantages. So you see so often when she gets a switchball her first touch coming inside, but close enough that a defender can't close on her. It sets up so that she can go either way. She's dominant going inside to her right

foot, but she's so clean and tricky in possession that she can either snake you and come back out to the right or cut to the left side. And I think this team's really starting to understand how to use her, how to take advantage of the space she creates. Players are learning how to play off her. I thought being Dolough looked really good off of Thompson. I thought Rose Lavelle looked really strong over this week and especially in this game.

And that's a huge bonus. We know how much Emma Hayes loves her. The way she creates is different, I think, than all the other players in the US pool and then showed with Thompson and Michelle Cooper stretching the game that she can also be a finisher and can be a threat as that second runner coming into the box. So overall a really strong game. I don't know that a lot is set in stone coming out of this in a positive. I think so many players have played well

across the year for Emma Hayes with all the opportunities that it's really, really hard to say anything besides Naomi Germa and Sam Coffey are written in stone. You probably put Lindsay Heaps in there as well as captain. So that's a mistake for me. But three of 11 is not a lot. And that is not a bad thing. Claudia Dickey a really good performance in this one. So that goalkeeper race, I think still open. It probably feels like Fallon Tullis Joyce is the front runner. But I think Dickie did a really good job in this window to get herself a little bit closer. I thought a few different players played well at center back Patterson gets the goal in the first game, another really strong game

in this one. So a huge option at the right back position. Emily Fox, of course, is going to be in that conversation. There are a number of other players, Lily real gets a second start. And I think it's interesting having played three centerbacks in the second game against Ireland, but real playing left back the whole time. If that is something that Emma Hayes wants to have in her back pocket, real is naturally a center back. And so if you think she's good enough to play left back, does that get her on rosters because of her versatility? Hutton gets a goal in this one continues to show that she's up to the level in the international sort of ranks and Michelle Cooper is just a completely different player has taken a step in every aspect of

her game. She's a star now for Kansas City. She's not a site, you know, one of the players running alongside the stars. She is a star on her own and she's showing it with the US women's national team as well. And so there are there is depth, there is options for this US team, there is a lot of different ways they can play. And because of that, there's a lot of different personnel, but there are very few players who have stepped on the field for the US over the last year plus under Emma Hayes who did not look up to the level. And so that is going to be a ton of options. Emma says she wants to sort of solidify around her core coming out of this camp. I don't know how her and her staff are going to be able to do that.

And I don't know who you eliminate and who you sort of cut down. I can't think of a bad performance across this window. And I can't really think of a lot over the course of the last 12 months. So it is going to be fascinating to watch with this US women's national team going forward for Canada. I think you've sort of feel a little bit of the gap. I thought Croeso was good in this game create chances. I thought height Emma got a lot of openings. She does not finish at a high level, whether it's for club or country, but she is a elite athlete. She reads the space really well. She gets into super dangerous spots. She closes down consistently to create extra chances with her energy and

effort. But that finishing quality just has not been there. I thought Fleming was strong in this game as well. I thought you saw some of the quality along the back line, which should be the strength for this Canada team. Not the easiest game for Ashley Lawrence. I think that's tough because of the players you're going up against that are attacking you. And a huge part of this Canada team is the attacking threat from Lawrence down the left wing on a day in which Lawrence sort of announced that she'll be moving back to France, this time with Leo Ness under Michelle Kang, leaving Chelsea after coming over originally from PSG. So a big move for her, an opportunity

to play with some of the best players in the world. And we'll see if maybe her game takes another jump at this age for her. But a big game, a big sign for the US that they are, you know, fully back after the gold medal last year and maybe some question marks coming out of the Sheba Leafs Cup and a huge moment for this team. All right, let's get to our interview now with Ricardo. Enjoy it. And we will be back coming up next week with the Weekend Recap. Special episode here on July 4th. I hope everyone's enjoying celebrations. Everyone's enjoying a little time off, a little R&R. Tom, I think at this point, is officially six hot dogs in to his afternoon as he enjoys things. But we had a chance to sit down and pre-record here and we're going to do an interview that we're very excited about.

We have on the GM and sporting director Ricardo Marrera from Orlando City to talk about everything going on in your life, your work, as well as big picture stuff around the league. Ricardo, thanks for joining us. David, Tom, thank you. Thank you for the invitation. It's a pleasure to be here with you guys and hopefully everybody is going to enjoy the little conversation in this 4th of July, right? It is, what, about a cool 30, 40 degrees in Orlando? Everyone's relaxing? Yeah, yeah, it's else's, yeah, yeah. Well, we wanna start out by talking

a little Club World Cup, because we're gonna talk MLS, we're gonna talk Orlando, but you originally are from Brazil and now you've worked across the United States and we'll talk about that in a moment, but the big story this summer has been the success of the Brazilian teams in Club World Cup and then that in context I think of everything happening outside of Europe you have seen this game from both sides what do you make of the Brazilian Club's success and I think more for our fans

is how far is the gap from Brazil to the rest of the Americas and where does MLS sit inside of that? No, that's a really good question, David, because it's funny because growing up in Brazil, we always dreaming about as soccer fans in Brazil, like you always have your team and you always dreamed about playing against Europeans and beating the Europeans because we are all we we are also watching the Premier League, the La Liga, etc. back in the days in Brazil. So every time back in the days the World Club Championship was actually the winner of Libertadores against the winner of UEFA Champions League, right?

So São Paulo beats Barcelona, Flamengo beating Liverpool are things that stick in our memories as soccer fans back in the days. And I think this FIFA Club World Cup I think just enhanced it there. So every club in Brazil, every fan in Brazil, they are like anxious and waiting for this moment to happen and now that the Brazilian teams are actually doing good, it's for the first time ever we're seeing like the Flamengo fans cheering for Fluminense, Fluminense fans cheering for Palmeiras because in Brazil we're super segregated. I mean you're a Flamengo fan, you're a Flamengo fan period. You're not a fan of Brazilian soccer.

You want to win as a Flamengo fan period. But now I think as the competition goes on and now Botafogo is out, Flamengo is out, probably they're going to become like the Real Madrid or Juventus fans, not the Flamengo or Palmeiras. But in the first stages of the tournament when we were seeing the Flamengo beating Chelsea, Botafogo beating PSG, everybody in Brazil were cheered up because actually they're showcasing what the Brazilian soccer really is, right? It's a super strong league with clubs that are super well managed. The TV money is really important and it's a big sort of

revenue for Brazilian clubs and it's been increasing year by year and as Brazilian soccer becomes more professional again better well managed you have Brazilian clubs part of MCO groups right the Bahia a big club in Brazil part of the city group we have Red Bull Brazil and etc there was a change in the legislation in Brazil a couple years ago where now clubs that used to be non-profit civil associations can be owned by companies, by millionaires, by investment groups. So there's a lot of more investment in Brazilian football recently in soccer.

What happened now is we're still losing in early stages the Vinicius Juniors, the Stevons and etc. But we are doing a much better job in keeping talent in Brazil and buying and hiring talent from South America, from other countries that the economy is not as well, is not as good as in Brazil right now or the clubs are not at well management or profitable at the clubs in Brazil right now. So we're retaining talent in Brazil. So the game is better, the teams are better. And that's why we're watching Brazil, Brazilian clubs doing so well in the FIFA Club World Cup.

I think an analogy that I wanna do with MLS in this term is back in the days, and you guys know that for us in Orlando, the draft is super important. College soccer is super important. But back in the days, you guys know that for us in Orlando the draft is super important, college soccer is super important, but back in the days you saw much more talent in college than you saw in the academies. And I think the reserve minimum salary is getting better, the academies are getting better, much better coaches, much better structure, much better competition with MLS Next, MLS Next Pro, MLS itself.

Now clubs are retaining talent rather than letting talent go to college soccer more than it was in the past. So the analysis that I do is that I think the Brazilian soccer is much better managed than it was before. A lot of private money in soccer than they had before. They're being able to retain talent and hire talent from other countries in South America. I think the biggest competitor for MLS clubs that likes to bring players from South America now are the Brazilian clubs and you guys know that Orlando City loves South America. Probably Inter Miami, Portland, some other clubs as well, but we're seeing a lot of competition because again there's a lot of there is a lot of money and investment in Brazilian soccer than

it was before. So what can MLS if anything kind of replicate from the Brazilian League success? Is it loosening roster rules for like more like the middle of the group? Is it retaining players as you say for a little bit longer before they make the jump to Europe or maybe top Brazilian leagues? What is it that MLS can learn if anything from Brazilian clubs having so much success at the Club World Cup? I think both things that you said losing the rules a little bit I'm very favorable to that as much as I can as much as I can talk about it. Retaining

talent I think it's important, but I think actually MLS is in a stage before Brazil, right? I think for MLS clubs, for us, it's important to participate in the market, right? To showcase our players into the soccer world. So for us, if we have talent and they're good enough to make the jump to Europe or to make the jump to a bigger stage,

I think we're in favor of doing so because we know that we're still not the end product yet. But it's important also to highlight that Brazil is a soccer country, right? Soccer is everything in Brazil. I think the second most important or popular sport in Brazil is volleyball, that Brazil does always super well in the Olympics and etc. But it's, I think soccer is everything. Every Brazilian kid was born trying or dreaming

to be a soccer player. I was one of them. Unfortunately, I cannot blame my knee or a bad agent. It was pure lack of talent that didn't make me become a soccer player. But when you have a, there's one thing that MLS cannot buy and this thing is culture, right? I think we're seeing a lot of improvements in MLS.

I've been in the league for almost 12 years now, I think. And the MLS from 12 years ago is not the same MLS as today, but I think we're building the MLS that our grandkids will join now. I'll give an example like Alex Freeman for example, right, that everybody's talking about or right back with the national team, Alex Freeman is probably the first real, and I quote that, product of our club that came through the academy to the second team. And now he's in the first team that actually, I'm not saying that others don't but he feels the badge, right, the grass is heavy on him because he's an Orlando City fan.

His family is an Orlando City fan in the United States. So when you have that, right, the grandkids, the kids, and the children involved in the team, involved with the culture of the team, that that team means for them more than lots of other things in life, then you have a true soccer country, a true soccer ecosystem that will impact the generations. And again, soccer is everything in Brazil, so people are born wanting to be soccer players. Sometimes they don't have money to buy food because it's a third world poor country, but they're saving money to buy the ticket for the next Corinthians, Flamengo, Palmeiras game or whatever.

So those things we cannot buy, right? But I think with the things that we're doing in the Malax, structuring the league in such a very good way, importing to the United States what is good in soccer, but also keeping the culture of the United States within our league, I think those things are gonna make the impact that we wanna see and the next generations will, I think, enjoy are going to make the impact that we want to see and the next generations will I think

Enjoy the game much more and leave the game much more that the current generation does So you said 12 years around but you are from Rio and Sao Paulo How does a Brazilian lawyer end up running a soccer team in the United States? well As I said, right originally a lawyer nerd United States? Well, as I said, originally a lawyer. Nerd. Nerd, yeah. But I was a sports lawyer, so not that nerd.

Also Tom, making money is kind of cool as well sometimes. Yeah, I just can't comprehend a legal document, so I'm lashing out. No, listen, I want to say I'm a former lawyer because I am a former lawyer, so please, legal department, don't leave me alone here because I can't have you guys if you are listening to this. But yeah, as I said, I wanted to be a soccer player. I came to the US in 2006 with a scholarship to play for Towson University, NCAA, and Baltimore near Baltimore.

Nice. Towson County, baby. I lasted one season only. At that time, I promised I had ankle issues and I had two surgeries and I had to go back to Brazil. But I started my career as a sports lawyer getting much more involved with, more and more involved with players transfers, representing clubs and the Brazilian Football Federation, CBF, and FIFA matters, legal issues, representing agents, players,

in every, in the international stage, right, international level. To a point, I wanted to be in the other side of the table, right, I said, no, I don't wanna be a lawyer anymore, I wanna be in a club, I wanna work in something else. Started studying, MBA here, MBA there, management courses, everything that you can think of that was available back in the days. If you wanted to be a sports

professional in Brazil and South America, I took the course, I invested and I was trying to get involved in lectures and networking, talking to people to a point that when I was a lawyer, I was having a case against Manchester City in FIFA. I sent an email to Ferran Toriano, who is now the CEO of the city group, and I said, recent Ferran, I read your book, which is, the ball doesn't go in by chance. And everything they were saying there,

like you have to do a background work in your club in order to get that ball to get in. Like you gotta invest in the academy, invest in people, invest in investing personnel do proper scouting analytics etc that's what I want to do in Brazilian soccer but that's impossible we're not ready for that and and the guy answered the phone we start talking and he became quote-unquote a friend yeah in the world of soccer and that led me to record can I interject for a second did you say that you were on the other side

of it? You were going against Manchester City. Against Manchester City, right. And he wasn't like, how dare you? Yeah, probably. But that's incredible that it wasn't you guys on the same side. It was technically a legal case where you were on the opposition. He's probably a better human being than the both of us. Right? Yeah, you're right.

We're in different sides, and yet he took his time to give me some advice. And I always thank him for that, because if it wasn't for him, I was probably going to be thinking and doing something else with my career. Funny, a fun fact. I got engaged, and we were traveling, me and my wife, and when we came back from the trip when I proposed, I quit my job the first day back in town.

So looking back, we always make fun, like she was crazy because I went to a third division club in Brazil to start as an intern in their academy. And I was 26 years old already. And one thing led to the other. The club that I was running back in the days as a sporting director in Brazil, we made it to the first division. We played a final against Santos of Neymar. We lost the final. And basically it was a private club, one of the few private clubs back in the days in Brazil. Some money to invest but heavy scouting, have Thailand ID connections that made me learn the scouting piece of the business in a very raw early stage of my career. And Greg Berhalter, he was the coach and general manager, head coach and general manager of Columbus Crew and he was, and I'm super thankful to Greg too today, and he was in Brazil, traveling Brazil, trying to find talent there, and eventually someone connected me to him and I started my career in MLS

as a scout, as a consultant, as an international representative of Columbus Crew in Brazil and South America. And from that to head of recruitment in Columbus, from head of recruitment in Columbus to director of scouting in Northern City first year, technical director and VP of soccer operations for five seasons and now three months into the GM and supporting the director job. It came at a good time when the announcement happened.

I think you guys are on what, 13? Yeah. Yeah. The Oscar Pereja and everybody kind of around this club has built Orlando went from not making the playoffs to a sustainable, consistent competitive team won the first trophy in the MLS era. So throughout your time, you've been linked with other clubs, there's been interviews, there's been whatever you don't like, you get to be CSO and get to stay here in Orlando. How much does that

mean to you to get to stay here at this club that you've been for so long and have helped kind of build up to where it is? Now, it means a lot because we feel the club, right? We feel the crest and we're such involved in that everything is very... I'm very passionate about what I do and I'm very passionate on making things work where I am, right? So, and I could see it from some different angles, right? Like, okay, I came here with Luis, who by the way, I'm very thankful for helping me and supporting me throughout all those years. And he's still involved with ownership and some capacity in other ventures with soccer. But we came

here, as you said, the club was nothing, right? It was a joke in MLS, it was last place, never making the playoffs. It was not a relevant club in terms of competition in the league, right? And we were sporting people, I don't care, obviously I do care, but it's not what makes me lose my sleep at night if we're selling tickets or not. I wanna win, I wanna develop players,

I wanna help the club be important in the soccer side of the business. I know it's a business, it's a 360-degree business, but I'm in the soccer side. So when those things came along, like interviews, interviews from MLS, from Brazil, from Europe. I knew my goal with this club and what I wanted to do long-term with this team because such an important city, such an important club and how much it means for this community made me stay a little bit longer, waiting for the opportunity to come.

And I think ownership was very kind and very smart in doing it in a way that it's not succession, but continuation, right? I mean, I've been involved in every major decision of this club in the past seven years in terms of not only player signings, but everything soccer strategy-wise, and the fact that we can build from that for the future.

It's really important for again for stability continuation of everything that we're doing. And honestly it's not because they are my bosses but work for this ownership group is really special, really important. They are very good people, they are very good businessmen and I learn a lot because they come from the real state and football world into soccer and I think they already have made me a better professional and I'm only going to grow by working with the people that I'm working with honestly. And again, as we're saying, I'm coming from Brazil, right?

So, a different culture, different mentality and I was working for a Brazilian ownership group before they came along in 2001, the Will family. So for me, in a personal level and a very selfish level, it's super important to be working with a different culture, different mindset people that are eventually going to make me a better professional. I have to ask this question because I always think back I Was sitting with Ziggy Schmidt one time and he told a story that Before your time with Columbus that like Brian Ruiz came in and trialed with them before he ever went to Europe and ends up Becoming one of the great players in concaved history and he's like we saw how good he was We couldn't get the deal done his visa was up then he went and then he ends up in Europe Do you have a story of one player that you couldn't get done

or one that you had your eye on? We all do. I'll name it. My player, the one that I always think of is Luis Diaz. Whoa. Colombian player, yeah. Me and my head scout back in the days, we went to Colombia, we tried to sign him,

and I think it was for a couple thousand dollars that we couldn't get the deal done. And he played that match, I think it was a Libertadores against Palmeiras, I think, where people saw like, oof, this guy is the real deal. But we have seen him like two, three months before. Yeah. And we were trying to sign him. We had... It's not nobody's fault, but it was just like...

It's always about the fit, right? The fit and the moment. And we look back and obviously it's always a collective decision and someone raised their hand and said, maybe he's not ready to do X, Y and Z that we need now. And then someone will not agree and et cetera, and it'll go deeper and watching the player and et cetera. But you're losing time. Most of the times when we do that in MLS

is because we have to be so mindful of and respectful of the processes in MLS because you guys know how much it costs to a player when a player doesn't succeed in your team, right? In MLS because of the mechanisms, because of the culture, because of how just the league is itself. So every time, and it's something that people say in the market, right? Agents or the clubs are like, oh, MLS teams, they take forever to sign a player.

Yes, we do because we're mindful of how much it can impact the roster, the budget, and etc. And I think Luis Diaz was one of those that we had to be more agile or faster than we were. And we lost timing and someone else came, and I think Porto, and then Porto bought him for like six million dollars, something that we would never do back in the days.

And two years later, he goes to Liverpool for like 50 or something, and he's a national team player, one of the best team players in the world. But again, nobody knows. We don't know that if he had come here, he would have developed it the way he did in Porto and then Liverpool, right? But obviously he would make an impact because the talent was there. Yeah. One I was so like, I know that, or I think I know at least,

it's great if I'm wrong, that Julian Alvarez was somebody that was on your club's radar. I don't know if this was around when Facundo Torres, but talking about one that came through from my recollection of that deal, the Facundo Torres one was on and off and on and off and between you and Muzi and his agent and the club that it took a whole lot of meetings to get over the line. And that was one of those where I guess the other side of louis diaz for that one at least you have the fecundo one that ended up getting over the line and he comes and starts for your club for several years

the fecundo doutorzio took uh... uh... december twenty fifth afternoon christmas meeting zoom meeting uh... with payroll and the agents maybe we should have done something for new years with louis diaz back in the day with Pena and the agents maybe we should have done something for New Year's with Luis Diaz back in the day. Another one that I want to talk about is I look at kind of seminal moments in your club's history particularly the recent history, Nani is one that comes from me because we all know how great he was on the field for Orlando but what was his impact to the club off the

field with you guys with the culture with everything that goes beyond his goals and his assists? Very impactful. That's a really good question Tom because Nani, I always tell people that Nani is, when I think of Nani I think of the stories that we hear about Cristiano Ronaldo, right? His drive to win, to train, to prepare himself to be in the better shape possible physically, mentally, tactically, technically, to perform well on the field. And I think he raised the standards of Orlando City in all senses, honestly. He raised the standards of ourselves as sporting directors, scouts, coaching, massage, nutrition, athletic trainers, because he was such a freak for training and get the best out of everybody. I remember back in the days, he was sitting in the middle room

counting how many spoons of rice a player was eating. And he was like calling the attention like hey you can't do that that's not good for you I'm gonna go to your house tonight and we're gonna teach you how to cook and why you should eat before game and listen we had all of this and we still do like have dietitians nutritionist but he wants to be involved in the process because you're like I know what's best for you and and we respected that he was coming from he was not in Man United back in the days but the guy was raised in Man United with

Alex Ferguson next to Cristiano Ronaldo next to Paul Scholes to I mean we had to we had to listen to him and I think when Nani left probably some of the guys were a little bit relieved but we were not we were like guys that's the standard that's what we need from now on That's the kind of mentality and mindset that we need from everybody, from the first team to the academy. And I think we have a culture here, and that's a little bit on Nani, and that's a lot of on Oscar Pereira as well. It's hard work. It's hard work.

I mean, Orlando City can win, Orlando City can lose, but things will come. If you beat Orlando City, you're going to have to sweat. It's not going to be easy. We're going to find a way to make your life not easy in our ground, in your ground, or whatever. So we're always trying to adapt ourselves to this culture of hard work, dedication, because that's what it takes to win in sports in general, right, in soccer.

And I always try to remember people here, the people that work with me, people around the world, my family, like we're in a 30 club league. There are 30 clubs here, only one is gonna win. It's impossible that we consider only this winner, this successful one, right? There are a lot of little wins, small wins, small success stories, academy, second team,

transfer market, internal promotions, HR, lots of things that can happen in a football club, in a soccer club that can be seen as wins. Obviously, we want to win. We want to put a start above Orlando's request sooner rather than later. But I think those standards in this hard work mentality are making ourselves have some sort of success in every level of the club that I mentioned throughout those years and I think Nani's impact on the field and off the field still reflects and still make us try to be above average, above our normal standards here in the club as professionals. So his impact is beyond the goals that he scored

in the Masters back and against Miami away or the goals that he scored here, all-star game and et cetera. He's just such a impactful player in terms of our culture that I cannot name everything that he did for us. Nani came and you had the first playoff game and the first playoff win and all of that was huge on the field at that first team level.

But I know for us on this show, we're passionate about the academy set up, the structures, the pathways and all of that. And I can say from covering the academy levels, Orlando was a team that I didn't really watch for many years. And there was talent because it's Florida and there's talent, but it was not cohesive. And I've been around Javier now for a while. And I remember Marcelo when he first came over and obviously Oscar Pera is involved. But what's fascinating to me about the Orlando setup and your success that you've been able

to build now, which Alex Freeman feels like sort of the tip of the spear on is you also had first team success and it wasn't just, can we just push a bunch of kids into the first team and become an academy structure and convince people. How have you built on both sides while remaining successful in the first team level, but also having a genuine, you know, ability to grow the academy structure and the pathway to make yourself one of those clubs that feels like is going to push homegrown through? Yeah, no, it feels and I think we Um, I learned a lot from this process with, uh, with Oscar and Luis. And I was, uh, I was the, the, the, the one here in the club, uh, learning

from them, but responsible for the Academy restructure in the last four, five years. I think the Academy of Orlando City was outsourced until 2019-2020. So we have a very, a super young academy now and last year, this was actually the first season, 2024-2025, was the first season where we had all age groups that we wanted in place. So we started with the under 12s until the under 18s with obviously OCB and Amelestics Pro. OCB is the finishing school of our academy players, right? But the setup is really good. One of the things that we did that was super important for the academy,

the under 15s, 16s and 18s, they come here in the mornings. They're training at the same time and in the same complex together with OCB and the first team. So the under 15 kid, he's training, he's watching Muriel, he's watching Pedro Galezi, he's watching Marco Pasalic, and he's dreaming in one day being there. They are sharing resources, they are seeing everything that we do here, and the Academy Director Javier, the OCB head coach, the head of methodology, they are all with Oscar Pereja in the team meetings every

morning 6.30 a.m. in the coaches conference room. Just listening, just hearing what we're doing. If Oscar needs a right back, because Freeman is in the national team, he's going to pull someone from OCB. The guy from the under 18s will go training with OCB. And then the pathways, we have meaningful pathways here in the club. That's what I think was the change for us. Like if we're recruiting a kid in the under 12s today, it's because we know what we have in the under 13s, 14s, 15s. And the head scout of the first team knows that we have a very special kid in the under 14s that we have to prepare for the next year. so the guy that we're bringing for the first team

now is gonna be an age that he's not gonna be in competition with this under 14 kid if he makes it or in he makes it and and we're gonna be mindful of how much we're investing in this first team player because we want to be successful not only well obviously Oscar wants to win Saturday against Charlotte away I want to do too but I'm thinking of Orlando City in 2030 already and that's how, that's the mentality of our head scout, of our Academy director, of everybody around this building. We just won the GACup this year, we won the Nationals with the under 14s, with the under 18s we lost in the semi-finals

conceding ago in the last minute. Winning is important,, putting trophies in the cabinet is super important, but I think now moving forward we want to find the balance between winning and developing even more. I don't want to be signing, David, as you mentioned, I want to be signing 10, 15, 20, 25 kids per season, homegrowns for the first time. I don't want to do that. I want to have elite players in the academy and I want to place those because from a human aspect or from a human standpoint just a handful of those players in the academy today are gonna be successful in their soccer careers, right? So thinking about that and thinking about how the league is evolving how It's becoming much more much and much more competitive

The guys are gonna break through and make it to the first team, again, are just a handful of them. So we're preparing, we're building, we have a startup here per se, we have a lab. We're building elite players that actually make an impact in the first team. They're meaningful. I don't want to assign a kid just because I need a buddy in OCB to play MLS Next Pro tomorrow. No, no, we're not gonna do that I'm not gonna sign a key to be the fifth option behind For other players in the first team no, no, we wanna and listen not because we're only mindful of their careers or good human beings

No, it's really difficult to break through. It's really difficult to play in MLS now. And we want to have home grounds because it's important for the club. It's important for the community. It's good for the roster build. It's good for if we sell those players allocation wise and et cetera. But we want to have the players making a true impact

in the first team. So I think we did, we finished our structure in terms of the age groups that we wanted we won the trophies that we wanted we showcased ourselves we showcase the two pathways as I said the meaningful pathways that we built we showcasing the staff integration and the team's integration in our Academy we seen the Alex Freemans the Guskes, the Gustavo Carbaggios, the Zacaria Taifi, the Fabian Loyola, but now we want more Alex Freemans if I can make you guys understand me. I think that we're going now into Orlando City Academy 2.0. We're going to announce shortly in our social media channels a

couple changes that we're gonna make in the Academy and hopefully you're gonna see the results of those in the next couple years. If you want more Alex Freemans we got to go through Super Bowl rosters, then we got to find Kip. Did you know his father played in the NFL? Did you know that? Because I don't know if you listen to a broadcast. He apparently comes up every 10 minutes and we talk about it It's it's just his father's lineage Alright, Tom and Antonio Freeman was in Minnesota this week in a US bank stadium, right? And I'm a Minnesota Vikings. I'm a Vikings fan as you guys know These owners happy

So moving from moving from the Academy the first team you guys have again, another really strong start to the season and a really difficult Eastern Conference. I know that you have a lot of your resources committed because this team was kind of built pretty complete, I would say, from the outside. But what can fans expect for this club in the Summer Transfer window? Yeah, not to give any scoop. You can give it no comment if you want, that's fair. No, listen, we have another 22 spot available. I mean, it's there, it's public, everybody can see the information is out there. We're going to actively try to fill this spot now in the summer. I think there's a position that we can be better at that can actually improve our chances of winning. We're a very competitive team.

We've been always competing there in the semifinals or the conference final as last year, but there's a cherry on top of the cape that's probably missing in terms of the amount of options or good options that we can have from the bench or even as a starting lineup player to make an impact on games. And I think it's, I'm comfortable to say that we always have like balanced rosters, right? We always had sort of one or two good players in every position and we see there's a position that we're lacking that other option to improve things and we're going to be actively looking for another 22, this transfer window.

When you talk to other sporting directors in MLS or CSOs, how does everyone view the U-22s? Like you have some teams where it's like, it feels like it's very clear, this is a player for three years from now. And then you have other teams that are, let's talk down the road in Inter Miami, where it's like, we need starters today. How do you view it and how do,

like sort of what's the conversation around this roster mechanism? I see it as a balance, right? We have Ramiro Enrique, who actually obviously makes impacts in the first team since the day that he came in 2023, if I'm not wrong. And we have Nico Rodriguez, who came, had a setback with an injury, and is a guy that plays in the same position as Marco Pazelic, for example. But we know, we knew, well, we hope that Marco Pazelic start was exactly as it's been, right?

Very impactful. And Nico, we've been building Nico Rodriguez for the future. But the sort of player they were trying to bring now in the under 22, someone to compete for a starting position to make an impact right now. That would be the idea. And I think, as you said, they're sporting director,

GMs that see things differently. If you're thinking about just an exercise in the market, right, you're thinking about player sales, right, because I think there was the beginning of the history with the under-22s, like it was to bring young players, develop them and sell them. I think some clubs went in a different route, bringing starters, as you mentioned, because if you're buying an under-22 for five, seven, ten million dollars, it's very difficult for you to resell this player to get a good amount of profit in a future transfer. What we are trying to do is trying to balance those two things like the immediate impact

of the player but at the same time being mindful of how the market trend is going and what we can get from this player in the future. Because, as I said before, we want to participate in the market. We want to be seen as a club that is relevant in the market, either buying or selling players. And we're super happy when things like that, for example, when we signed Niko Rodriguez, nobody knew Niko Rodriguez from Fortaleza, Colombia. But the moment we signed Nico Rodriguez, nobody knew Nico Rodriguez from Frutaleza, Colombia. But the moment we signed him, we announced him, teams in Brazil, teams in MLS, teams in Europe, we're looking at this talent, this kid is going to be good, this kid is going

to be well. So this kind of thing is actually puts Orlando City in a position of being respectful in the transfer market, being respected by agents, by clubs, etc. That's one of the things that we want to do. And that's one of those small wins that I was referring to in the beginning because when we first got to the club, it was the opposite, right? Orlando City was buying players that nobody knew, that a big transfer here is a big transfer there, and not successful stories to tell.

And I think we did a good job in making up for that, right? And I think the way I see Under 22s are like this. I think it's a balance of playing, making an impact. Now a player for the future and a player for a future sale, I guess about three options, and you have 322 spots available. So you look at our team and you're gonna see where those three players fit.

Last one for you. Sitting right now outside the home playoff spots. Fifth in the East, tough game against Cincinnati on the weekend. That's a team I think sort of you're setting yourself against Eastern Conference last year, Open Cup as well. What's the expectations internally? What's the conversation around what 2025 should be for Orlando City and sort of what should fans

be thinking about? Yeah, when you look at data in this league, it's so important to finish top four in your conference. Not only for the home playoff advantage, but historically clubs that finished in the top four in their conference are the winners. You have just a few outliers or outsiders in this group of MLS Cup winners. We want to be competing for the top four positions. I think we think internally that

we had, we still do a small one, but we had a shot in the support shield when we were going through a good run of unbeaten games and we were just like outside the first positions that the Eastern Conference was very still, still is, but the difference between Philly and the fourth or fifth place was like three or four points. Now we feel we're a bit far from that but I think the first goal is to finish in the top four position and that's what fans should be expecting. We want to have a home playoff advantage. Our home field is so important for us, the atmosphere, the wall, the fans, they make such a great impact, such a great difference in our games that we need to compete for that

for those. And what a little bit hard with the loss against Cincinnati, it's a playoff match, right? It's a good rival with a great roster, with a great coach, a team that is competing for titles as we do in the last couple of years. And it was a tough loss. The performance was probably better than the results.

And we deserved at least one point out of that game. We had a, we missed a couple of chances in the end that normally we wouldn't. But the hopes are high. The hopes are high this year. I think we're now, we're not certainly in a better spot today than we were in the last couple of seasons where we were finishing in the top four. So Last year the start of the season was really bad. And at this moment I think we're sitting 10th or 11th place and the year before the same So the hopes are high because of that it is going to be a fun close to the season. It's been a fun run Marco Pasalic can shoot from anywhere in the world and and I will tune in to watch Martino

Hayde has been a blast and thanks for making sure Alex Freeman took penalty kicks in training. I think everyone in the US fan base can appreciate that. We appreciate you taking the time to join us and let's do this again soon. Thanks David. Appreciate it. Appreciate it Tom. Thank you very much and see you guys soon. Thank you so much for taking the time to Ricardo and thank you to Orlando City for helping set that up. And of course, thank you always to Tom to everyone out there in the US. Enjoy your July 4, enjoy any time you have off or enjoy the soccer women's Euros has kicked off club World Cup continues into the quarterfinals. We've got MLS action across the weekend from Thursday through Sunday.

And of course, it all finishes with the gold cup final the US against Mexico. One last note though, before we get out of here, we just wanted to share our thoughts and condolences with everyone in the soccer community, but especially the Jota family on the tragic news of Diego Jota and his brother, two young players entering their prime, two players who are young in life and it's always heartbreaking to see people cut down so early in life and I know many in the soccer community are hurting off the back of this and so we wanted to send our thoughts and condolences to the Jota family and everyone else who might be feeling this loss. Thank you all for listening, thank you all for being here.

Thank you once again to Ricardo, to Orlando City, of course to Tom and to all of you. And we'll talk to you again very, very soon. you