SoccerWise - Tom and Tom take on Open Cup and all things US Soccer

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

Join Tom Bogert and special guest Tom Hindle as they dive into the latest in the world of soccer. From the US Open Cup semi-finals to the standout performances in MLS, they it all. Listen in as they discuss the unexpected twists in recent matches, the impact of key players, and the evolving dynamics of the sport.

What's going on, everybody, welcome back to soccer wise. And yes, if you're hearing my vert voice first, that means that David Goss is not around. My fearless leader, CFO, NBA, it's out of town, probably making deals happen. getting a new slim-fit suit, something like that, off-site team-building session for corporate entities. But he's firing off emails at end with regards. David Goss, CFO, NBA. So, Goss, love you.

See you soon. In the co-hosts here with me. Today is my good pal, Tom Hindle, goal.com's very own. Tom, thank you so much for joining me. And it's just a couple Tom's cutting it up. Hi, mate. How are you? I'm pretty good.

I'm pretty good. Thanks for joining. Dude, dude, I feel honored. Do you know what I mean? Like, this feels like a big deal. you know i've done so many wonderful things in my career but this is the pinnacle it's all downhill from here mate um well you're coming right off of talking to lee win and then to me so um that's that that that is downhill in the little bit because lee win was probably much more fun

boga bigger than lee win confirmed no chance no chance uh lee win's a legend that was a really good piece so you guys haven't read it go check it on goal.com Tom did did a really good feature on Lee win and I don't know man anytime I see Leewin in a headline I'm in like that's it just blindly he's really good and this was a really good story you got to check it out. Do you know what mate that took you less than two minutes to plug something

and just for that you're a good friend I appreciate it It was genuine and it made me feel corny I was genuine but it's gonna sound shit and genuine Anyway one more thing to say Congrats to one of our soccer wise dads Charlie Fiction aka Charlie Cheesesteak He had his nuptials a wonderful, wonderful couple.

I am very, very happy for you guys. Enjoy all the celebrations that you very much well deserve and stop texting me about Patreon stuff. Put your phone down. Don't look at soccer-wise. Enjoy, enjoy your nuptials and your celebrations and parties. Just to be clear, this is your podcast, and you've told people to stop watching your podcast.

No, no, no, not people. I have told one of our dads, Charlie Cheesecake, Charlie Fiction. Because I texted him yesterday to say, congrats. And he texted back with like, dude, did you see that comment? And I was like, I'm angry that you've seen whatever you're referring to because I haven't, and you should be doing something else. Was the comment funny? I don't know.

I saw it. So, yeah. We got a good show here. We had a very, very busy midweek. There was some random hang-nail MLS games. But the main events was the U.S. Open Cup semifinals. And we had Tuesday, Nashville beat the Philadelphia Union, which we'll get to that in a minute.

But last night, Minnesota United hosted Austin FC, and Austin went on the road in extra time, a late, late game winner from CJ Fodry to set up an Austin FC versus Nashville Open Cup final. Whichever team wins will be their first trophy in club history. It should be fun. But let's talk about Minnesota United versus Austin last night. Again, an end to 2-1.

Once extra time, Austin opened the scoring in the first half through Usman Bukare, who maybe could have been sent off earlier in the game. We'll talk about that a second. Joaquin Pereiro with a beautiful free kick to equalize in the second half. And you just kind of thought it was a matter of time before Minnesota grabbed a winner. They bring on Fitz and Julian Gressel two really good subs. I thought that was going to change the game. Fitz didn't change the game.

Gressel didn't get on the ball enough. Game states were a little bit weird. Bongi-Longwane had a 1v1 to put Minnesota ahead. Brad Stoover came up big as Brad Stouver does. And it was C.J. Fodry scoring a winner. just ahead of penalties when we were all talking about the heavyweight battle that would be Brad Super versus St. Clair in penalties. It's Austin FC. Tom Hindo, they're in the final.

Yeah, I mean, do you ever watch a football match and go, how's that team won that? Like, I genuinely, and maybe this is, I mean, I suppose, this is the Austin FC tech, right? But I was just like watching that. It was like, oh, yeah, Minnesota United, very disciplined. Like, everything seemed to be falling into place. And then you have, like, this football madness of, like, a last-minute winner

that seemed entirely against, not against the run of play, but unexpected. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Because I want Minnesota to put all the right pieces into place to win a football match, and then Austin just next one. And you know what? Sometimes when you're watching cup competitions, you're like, that's not fair, but that's kind of fun because it's not fair.

Is that what you think? That's my thought. That's my really, really technical analysis. But honestly, if I were a Minnesota fan, I'd be a little bit peeved. I think, and look, I know you hate talking about refs. I hate talking about refs. But Bacari shouldn't have been on the pitch, man. Like, he's kicked out the defender that must have been, what,

about halfway through the first half? I don't know the exact minute. It was definitely when it was a no-no. Yeah, and, mate, it changes the game, doesn't it, Red Card? I mean, obviously, numerically, and also the fact that he wouldn't have been on the pitch to score the bloody goal. So, yeah, it was an interesting one. It felt like a cup tie as well.

Do you get that sense? I don't know. Oh, my God, yeah. And so I will say if these two teams met in a regular season game in August, and maybe they did, I'm just throwing it a month there. I think it would have felt like a cup final in the sense of the play style. It's not the quite the same intensity, of course, but Minnesota United, what they want to do is Killian transition, Killian set pieces,

and choke the game with their incredible structure. That's why I thought that they had the edge in this game, because I just think that they're better than Austin, their home. And again, the outweighed importance of set pieces in these knockout games. games, and I didn't know if Austin were going to be able to threaten, really, at all. Austin did so with the Bukhari goal, again, that was against the run of play in the first half, but that's kind of how it was always going to go. What Austin, they have similarities to Minnesota in the sense that they want to sit deep and hit

you in transition. They have a little bit more, you know, when they get to the final third in terms of of players who can unlock things, you know, particularly Owen Wolf. I think he was awesome last night. Danny Pereira is a goddamn warrior. He was really, really good. He's a dude that, I don't know, man. you put him on the field in a knockout game,

you put him on the field in a final, and I'm just going to bet that guy's going to play well and going to impact the game in a positive way. But I didn't know if they were going to be able to threaten Minnesota, and truth be told, they did in a ton, and then the game really slowed down in an extra time, and outside of the bongy chance that he should have scored, like, I didn't feel a winner coming for Austin,

but I was more assuming that Austin were going to be the one sitting really deep, getting pegged back with pressure and pressure, and Minnesota, again, even if they weren't dangerous attempts, like a cross after cross after set piece after whatever and it just didn't play out that way an extra time isn't that part of the minnesota tech though in a way right when you play a little more like defensively and structured when it's like okay lads it's time to get a winner you're maybe looking to be a bit more expansive and then you kind of lose what makes you good i don't know if that makes any sense but that seems like it and that's so like minnesota's ideal game state or

game flow is their weekend win against San Diego. San Diego dominates the possession, the field tilt, everything else. You did not, sorry, sorry, sorry. You did not just say field tilt. Yeah, I said field tilt. Is that bothering you? You nerd. Sorry, did that trigger you?

Sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. On this podcast that I have just jumped on for the first time, we do not acknowledge the phrase field tilt. What are you talking about? Hold on. Go on. A whole lot of...

It's asinine. It's just like every favorite, like, Twitter tactico's like, ah, we won the field tilt battle. Shut up. You know what you can say? We had more of the ball in the writer area. Dork. Field tilt says that in less words.

Okay, fair enough. Writer, what are you going to do? But anyway, as you were. So, yeah. So San Diego have the ball. San Diego have the ball in more dangerous areas or further up the field instead of saying field tilt. sorry, I just want to want to be careful for you here and make you, make you a welcomed guest.

And Minnesota, Dane St. Clair does Dane St. Clair things. Michael Boxel does Michael Boxel things. The structure under Eric Ramsey is so, so good. They are so difficult to play through. This team defends incredibly, obviously, with their effort, but intellectually with, they move as a unit. And that's one of the things that I think I respect most about Eric Ramsey is that you can tell the way the way they move. even in preseason it's like wow like this you guys should be more disjointed and he's got them really well drilled then they they hit on the counter they hit in transition uh they score from

midfield because why not for minnesota united so that was their ideal game austin in mLS this season second to last in possession in average possession third to last in field tilt second in long pass share they're second and long past share behind minnesota united and first so austin was like well you're home, you're technically the favorite, we're going to do what you want to do more than you. It's on you to make the game. And they couldn't, and this is the worry about Minnesota in the playoffs. If they come against a team that says, okay, you take the ball. You break us down. We're going to try to limit your long throws. We're going to try to limit your set piece opportunities. And hey, Calvin Yaboah, are you good enough to beat us in open play? And he wasn't.

Bongi he can a long way. Yeah, you're going to get him behind. Do you have the finishing touch? And last night he didn't. And the game has such thin margins. and Usman Bukhari, who has not been a great goal scorer for Austin. He's got five goals in 2,400 minutes this year, and that is an improvement from his first half season when he signed last year for $7 million. Usman Bukari went in. He scores his 101.

Bungi Hewongway didn't, and these are two players that are similar in their goal production. One scored, one didn't. Yeah, it's true. Did you not think that was a bit of a mistake, though, from Dane T. And lo, lo, lo, lo, le. Precursor.

Hashtag Heaterp. Hashtag Heaturp. I will always support a Maryland Terrapin. In fact, first person make it about me. I ever interviewed was Dane St. Clair, 18 years old, asked him a question about, was he excited to play at Ludwig Field?

And almost shit myself getting through that. So anyway, love the man. But should he save it? I wouldn't go as far as to say it was like a goalkeeper error, but I think, Dan St. Clair, we view him in the goalkeeper of the year conversation.

So, judging on that curve, yes. it's funny because like i just feel like i've jumped on this podcast become a total boomer and been like this game was full of mistakes there was no hang on you immediately went games i played on a spreadsheet mate what's going on no but honestly honestly i did find it quite a captivating contest and i say this as a as a neutral right like i was i was watching a football match and it got to extra time and i was like oh i'm gone there's tension here and that was quite fun and i think more more generally right like for the open cup like that's what that's what you need you need drama you need jeopardy you need tension you

need something to keep you sort of on your toes and as frustrating as extra time can be and we have talked about this um for the fans it's not bad it's not bad at all yeah um i thought that was again it was like the first 40 45 minutes kind of played out how you expected it to again like One more, it's like, Austin FC, I believe they're best in MLS at like the quality of shots that they're conceding because they're selling out to defend. And Nico Estevez made this tradeoff. He had to make this trade off in Dallas because the back line just did not have good enough players. And he's made that tradeoff here in Austin again as Brandon Vasquez got injured and as, you know, the attacking performances haven't quite been what he wanted. But listen, they're getting results.

They're above the playoff. They're comfortably above the playoff line. they're going to make the playoffs, it won't be spectacular, but look, man, take a step back. They're in an open cup final, and they're making the playoffs. Yes, they spent a lot of money, but that's not Nico Estevez's control. I don't think that you look at this squad and be like, you know, we don't have to rank them one by one, but like look at a couple teams around Austin.

Portland, Seattle, are the two teams ahead of them in L.A.F.C. and fourth, those three teams all have more talent than this Austin FC team, especially without Brandon Vasquez. So while it's been unspectacular and maybe not the most, aesthetic. Nico Estevez's job well done this season, really, really good. I think this is realistically as good as you could have hoped as an Austin fan for Nico Svesse's debut season when there was a lot of consternation on that hire, given the way his time in Dallas ended and the fact that it was Dallas their rival. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of a complicated one,

isn't it? Especially when you bring in from so, well, I was going to say Texas is big, so it's not a local rivalry, is it really? But no, like you come into a club and you make what can only be considered in the scope of major league soccer that's an immediate impact right like like that is and maybe like you're looking at it while they're seventh now sure they might a few good results they get up to what the fourth a push fourth or fifth you know might get home field might get a game at home yeah austin if you're saying right now well not not right now i'm saying few good results they could move into that come six points behind ellie have seen we're i don't i don't think that you i think brother tom i was trying i was trying to make

a point here. My point is... Bad co-hoes, my bad friend. You're right. Comes on, you fucking idiot, go home. No, what I'm trying... What I'm trying to say is they are a playoff team and that's a good thing

immediately. I love to hear you say playoff in your accent because I know that it's... You have to rewire your brain when you want to say, dude, do you want to talk pro rel as well? Like, let's go. Really quickly, a couple more points on Austin, because obviously we're going to talk about them. As we build into the final, and again, they're going to be hosting. That's going to be really cool.

They hosted the All-Star game. Fun year for Austin when, you know, personally, I didn't have high expectations for them. But, again, I just want to reiterate. The City of Austin, or Austin FC? The City of, no, the Austin FC. All right, I was going to say. Yeah. I was going to say.

The state of the comedy space. Just checking. Again, I do want to say. that Owen Wolf has had a breakout this season. Maybe not break up, but definitely a leveling up. He had been, he's a really good player, I think. He's hit another level of kind of consistency. And I spoke with Nico Estevez about that this week

and how he said he's like, hey, he should be in the national team, right? He should be under consideration for the national team. And the way that he was saying it was, in the beginning of the year, he would have some great moments, as you know, he's really talented. And we were the coaching staff, we were challenging him to consistency. okay, this moment, how can you do this, you know, how can you be a seven and a half out of ten every time, rather than, oh, you had a few moments you drifted in out of the game, as young players do. This season, like, so they spent $7 million on Bukari, 12 and a half million on Mirr Tuzuni, and 10 million on Vasquez. Obviously Vasquez is injured, and since he got injured, and it's just correlation, not causation, but since he got injured is when Wolf has really been stepping up more and more.

we talk about two players that have $20 million worth of transfer fees and all of the others around him I trust nobody more in the final third or in entering the final third than Owen Wolf on this team. He's 85th percent on like shot creating actions. He's above that in expected assists

among midfielders and MLS. The progressive pass is like his pass completion percentage is low. I like that because that means he's taking chances and he's not going sideways and backwards because if he doesn't make the game for this team, if he's not the creative force coming through the midfield, there is nobody. Bukari is not that guy. He's a straight line runner and he's

very dangerous in that way. But in terms of progressing with the ball and intelligent passes, its own wool for nobody. See, that's enlightened what you've just said. The idea of like high pass volume and sometimes low percentage, like you're a clever, clever man. But seriously, though, as a player to have that killer ball in you, that's massive. And it's like, I feel like that's something like we undervalue a lot. It's like, oh, he's got a killer pass in the final third. it's just words but Owen Wolf has got it and that's can only be a good thing

and when you bring up the and God there's a route we maybe don't want to go down too much but the national team thing I think the only thing that maybe holds him back is the fact that he's kind of a 10 and the US has way too many of them

like it's like you're trying to fight for probably the deepest spot on the side but honestly good for him and hopefully makes a difference for them in the final I agree and really quickly on those signing so Bukari has 11 goal contributions

in about 2400 minutes Uzuni, he was pretty really anonymous last night, again part of that I do think was service but part of that is the run makes the pass and I didn't see enough from him last night I'm not ready to call this a bad signing I did say at the time it was an elevated

fee from what sources expected around the league if you call something a bad signing is that like seismic is that like if like Bogart calls something a bad signing. It's like, have you ever... I don't know what?

I assume that my opinion doesn't hold weight. I was going to say, it's headline news, isn't it? I'm not ready to... But the way you set that up, he's like, I'm not ready to call it a bad signing yet, as if it's like this impending dude. It sounded self-serious. It wasn't meant to me.

So he has 10 goal contributions to 2100 minutes. He has looked better or... Like, it was always an awkward fit with him and Vasquez because Uzuni has only played as a setter forward or a second striker. So it's always been a little bit awkward. And again, I do think that there is room for that partnership. So it's really disappointing that Vasquez got hurt. And then Vasquez had 10 goal contributions in 1,800 minutes before he got hurt. This team is not winning because they spent a lot of money on 3DPs, and the 3DPs are awesome.

They're winning because of the collective, the defensive unit. And I think a lot of that goes to Nico Esfez. Brennan's Heinz-Eyke has been really, really good this year. That's been awesome. So let's change a little bit to Minnesota before the other. semi-final. Disappointing. I think it's disappointing.

Like, I've been holding Minnesota in high regard this season, and part of that praise comes with expectations, and if you don't mean it, it's disappointing. I don't think that they were bad, but I don't walk away from this and being like, man, they got really unlucky. They really should have won this. Like, they let. So Austin scoring the first goal, obviously impacted things, but I don't know. They didn't do enough outside, I think, the bongy chance and a few other things.

like, again, Julian Gress, like, they didn't have, and with Yuboa being coming off injured, that hurts when you're trying, like, then the delivery from Gressel or Fitts or, or Bongi, if he's on the other one, whatever it is, that becomes less valuable. And that's what the team is built around, and that's where they missed Taniola Lisei. Joaquin Pereira, though, again, really good moment on the free kick. Didn't kind of do enough to affect the game in the final third. So they weren't creating the set pieces. And when they were, they weren't dangerous enough.

And really quickly, you're kind of looking around and being like, where's a goal coming from here? Yeah. Well, it's funny, isn't it? Because it's like Minnesota played the way they play. They executed in the way that they sort of normally would, if you will. But then that final piece of magic didn't really come. And when it did come, it's from an amazing free kick.

Right. That's a beautiful strike. Yeah. You can watch it over and over and over again. But, I mean, like you said, going, picking up on something you said earlier, mate. Like, if that is there, I mean, calling them one-dimensional, might be a bit of a risk, but if that is their whole shtick, is that, if that's how they win games, and then they get put in a situation where you can win a game that way, and then it's

like, oh, hang on, like, this hasn't worked. I mean, you've got to ask questions about how clinical they can be when it really counts, and it seems like when you're low field tilt, then you need to take advantage of the chances you do have, and they lacked a bit of a bit of a clinical nature. for sure and yeah one dimensional is one way to put it i think that the analogy that i've like to use for this team is look they throw their fast ball is elite and they can hit the corner and sometimes it's like you know a lot of times you know what they're doing and i'm hey i'm gonna throw this ball right here as hard as i can hit it and a lot of times teams can't but they don't

have that second pitch and that like against that pieces help with that but that is part of their their primary their primary objective and their primary strengths and And again, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it's unfair to expect him to come and change the game on, in a semi-final, not long after arriving, but fits is somebody who should be or will be, the idea is, he's that second pitch. He's somebody who can change the game in different ways than they're already doing it. Um, again, um, again, losing the kind of physical nature at center forward with taniel Osago and then again, you know, Boa, going off injured, that limits the quality crossing from Fitz, from Gretzel, from Joaquin Pereira, from Robin Ludd. Robin Lod, I thought was really good in the first half, and then kind of faded away through the game. So, yeah, Minnesota United, they'll have that to figure out.

But listen, they're in the Supporters Shield race. There's four games left. They are three points behind the Philadelphia Union. Vancouver White Caps have two games in hand. They will be first in the supporter shield if they win both of those games. And coming off a 7-0 thrashing of the Philadelphia Union, they look in a really good spot. But Minnesota are still alive for the Shield. and obviously coming to the playoffs,

they're going to be an absolute threat to get out of the Western Conference. So long season left for them. It doesn't take away that this has been a really special season and still has potential to be great. But I had them, even with how good, I think, Philly and Nashville are and how dangerous Austin can be. And it's kept the end way.

Minnesota was who I earmarked back in the quarterfinals. I was like, yeah, that's the team to beat in the Open Cup, and they were beaten. So the other side of that, Austin will host the final in two weeks. on Wednesday, October 1st, they will play Nashville SC who beat the Philadelphia Union 3-1. Sam Surridge, Hattrick. What an unbelievable performance. I am an enthusiast.

I'll let you go on surge in a second. This game was a car crash, particularly at first. And Nashville set the tone by, hey, Philly, we know how you want to play. We know how you're going to play. We're going to do it, too. Off the kickoff, kick it out for a throwing. I hate that. but I thought it was a great microcosm for what was about to unfold.

The first 10, 15 minutes, I don't know how many shoulders or elbows, and everything was a car crash. And then Nashville gets the goal of a set piece, Sam Surge. Like, if you haven't seen the highlights, please go watch again. Absolute Clinic on center-forward movement several times, particularly that first goal, gets the first goal. And then Nashville were able to play a little bit more after. They earned the right to play because they met Philadelphia at their physicality,

which usually Philadelphia drags team into the way that they want to play and then that's where the game is locked. Whether they win or lose, obviously they lost big to Vancouver this weekend and then lose the Nashville. It's a tough week for Philly. But that's how that one went.

Walker Zimmerman didn't play. BJ Callahan said he was just rested, which just sounds like a pile of bullshit. It's one of the biggest games in club history, your leader, your dominant centerback captain, all that. Just rested? Seems a little fishy. I don't know.

We'll see if he's back on the weekend. he's fully rested and ready to go. Quinn Sullivan didn't start for Philadelphia. Thought that was a big mistake. Sullivan comes off the bench and scores a goal. But again, National had too much for Philly and it was the Sam Surrey show. Yeah, I mean, one thing I did like and about that is that we talked about cup ties, right, when it comes to the first game.

There was a similar vibe to this as well. There was like a anger might not be the right word, but there was a competitiveness to it. It wasn't there for the first 15, 20. and yeah I thought Nashville really rather good one thing that struck me about them is how efficient they were I think it was like five big chances created three goals all right don't like like there's nothing

there's nothing sexy about that is there but well maybe there is but like there's there's nothing unbelievable about it but no they were great they were great at the right moments and so it's a dumb Tell me what you love about Sam Surge. Everything. Everything. Everything.

Everything. Everything. No, right. So the best... Is he English? Right, yes, because he's English. No, first of all, L.S. All-Star Media Day was talking to him.

I was like, why did you choose, like, Nashville, bro? Like, why'd you end up in Nashville? He's like, couldn't point to it on a map, mate, but heard it was good. And I was like, I love you. Like, you're amazing. And we were texting a little bit. me. And I think the SAMHSA, and I'm going to inevitably quote this wrong now, but I think it was 16 touches, four of six passes completed, three goals. Are you kidding me? How amazing is that?

How amazing is that? And it's funny because like, again, even outside of the goals, I thought that he had a bigger impact on the game. And again, maybe it's just creating with movement and everything else. So, oh my goodness. So that's part, that's part of the. reason you know like I I just pulled it up four of six passes four touches in the opposition box I love it I love it unbelievable right so I mean look part of it I was committed love that gets stuck in right exactly part of it is you can like you can like troll and be like what a weirdo but like part of it is that it does need intellectualizing in the fact he's a big number nine he's a big he's a big guy who does all of the right things to

be an MLS striker and that's fantastic and you know what you score you score a hat trick in what the biggest game of the season the biggest game and what were you speculating in club history don't know about that like you're second like they had a leeks cup final against miami that they lost in penalties messy and then they've had a couple real and serious playoff games but this is top three top four okay but my point point is massive game scores a hat trick without touching the ball that much that's great that's all None of this like, none of this like woke like linking up play

has to be like a do do a bit of everything nine. Fuck that. I'm going to go and kick the ball in the goal. This is amazing. So yeah, for Philadelphia, kind of going to mirror the Minnesota conversation in that really disappointing

and a really, really bad week again coming off that 7-0 thrashing at Vancouver. Philly, we're in the driver's seat, still are. for the supporter shield, but it looked a lot better a week ago. But now they'll just get their four games remaining. Just focus on that. Try to lock down the shield and build for the playoffs.

It's still, again, a very, very good season. It surpassed all expectations, but Philly will obviously be upset. They do finish the season with, they have New England and D.C., so those are two non-playoff teams. If you beat who you're supposed to beat, you should get there. But they close out with home NYCFC at Charlotte. in Charlotte are literally the hottest team in MLS history with how many games in a row that they've won. So this is all going to come down to the wire for Philly, and we'll talk about them in regards to the shield race.

But a little bit more kind of with Nashville. Tag Seth is a player. I really, really enjoy Eddie Tag Seth. He's got quality to him, but he's got like this motor that never stops. He's a smaller guy, but he's always, he got elbowed in the face, right? And Ben Wright put this clip up on Blue Sky. and it looks it's really, it was when it was

2-1 Nashville, Eddie Taggs that takes an elbow, bleeding from his face, goes off the field because he has to change his jersey. He's trying to get them, come on, come on, come on, I want to get back in there. It gets a new jersey, ball goes out for a Philly throwing in the, you know, near the corner flag, the attacking corner flag for Philly.

Tag steps at midfield, the ref waves him in, Philly takes the throw in to Yovan Lukic and Tegs that just immediately blows him up, gets stuck in, the ball flicks off Yovitch, Lukich, he turns to the ref to complain, Bradley Cardnell's like, what the hell? Like, that's not fair. He's sprinted off the sideline.

Like, and as that's happening, Tags out this turning to the crowd and just going mental. And I was just like, dude, like, I don't know. Like, again, I love when the quality and the technique and the technical ability meets the motor, meets a guy that there's 10 minutes left in a semifinal. And he's going crazy.

That's exactly what you want to see. And again, he's a really good player. And I think he was really, really important to this game and going to be an unsung hero because we're going to talk about Surge as we should, Honey and Moopsar, and the rest. Do you know what's funny is that you want to talk about stats, right? Because apparently we're here. Fewest touches of any outfield player.

Tag set? Yeah. No way. Are you kidding? Yep. Jesus. Yop. Awesome.

No, and... Less than Surge? Yes. Maybe he didn't have that great. Yeah, who knows? But, um, but like, my point, the point is there is that that, that, There's something quite gritty about Nashville, though, in these games, isn't there? Or in this game in particular.

And I don't know what you make of the Union, mate, but like, it's been a really, really rough week. Yeah, it's a really, really rough week. And you picked up on this. But why haven't we seen more of Quinn Sullivan in that game? I don't understand why he didn't start. I really don't get that. I think that's a really bad oversight from Bradley Cornell. I was previewing the game when I was in CBS and one part of it was projected 11s for both teams

and going kind of going back and forth with producers of like I don't know if Malaski Alasky's going to start kind of at that left attacking mid maybe he'll play up top I don't know about Damiani and then it was just like Sullivan yeah he's sorry don't worry like that's that's what just put Q&X to his name so people don't think it's Kevin if they're just looking at that and then the lineup comes out I I don't know man like I just I don't get that one. Bradley Cardnell's been fantastic this season, but I think you got that one wrong. Sullivan did score a goal. I don't know if he changes the game completely if he starts. It wouldn't have hurt. Damiani seemed like he was on the verge of a red card at all times.

Again, that's another player that I like, but maybe if you're in the goal on a yawl card, he should have gotten sent off, technically, letter of the law. He tried to block it with the hand, which should have been, like, if he blocks it and it doesn't go in, automatic red. but I believe that Miola and Whittie were saying on the broadcast that he touched it even though it went in so then that should be a yellow he was already on a yellow so I don't know Damiani wasn't a great performance but again hindsight's 2020 it's easy to say oh like when Sullivan could have really should have made a difference but I think that was an easy one not getting turned off on a technicality is very funny isn't it that's how I live in you're kidding I played last night and I was asking asking you

asking a guy every time he shot the ball wide, like, are you going to clip that and put that on a G, bro? Okay, I need to... What the fuck is wrong with this? I need to ask you, since you brought it up, can you please, like, paint a picture of what happened yesterday? It was absolutely locked in for a men's league game. It was raining.

I was just a crazy person. I couldn't wait. The other team had a guy who had a little bit of a score to settle. I bet he didn't remember it in any way because it was, like, seven months ago. But guess what? I didn't forget. And there was a couple times where he looked like I was just flying into a challenge

and he just kind of looked at me. I was just like, what's up, dude? Did you have a headband? I think we went up 7-0. And, yeah, well, it's set, eight aside.

That's still a high-scoring game, but we dominated. And then any time, he dribbled sideways, and I'm just chirping the entire time. And yeah, because he's somebody who has put up clips

on social media for a fucking men's league game. Give me a break, dude. Go set up your camera somewhere else, dude. Do you know what's hilarious? Someone filmed one of my men's, one of my men's league games and it was like the first time god did this is this embarrassing to admit i'd

like spray my ankle like genuinely it was like purple and i hadn't played for the and i'm colorblind and i know it was purple anyway i'm played i'm played in yonks and someone was filming it and there's this there's this moment where i like you know score quite a nice goal and i'm like fuck it this going on graham like immediately i was just like this is it so then i'd be chirping you the next time i Yeah, no, you should. My question is, though, are you going shoulder to shoulder or are you literally going two feet off the ground? Are you putting in a slide tackle?

Shoulder to full force, not pulling out, and a lot of extra contact is. Nice, nice. Back to the games that people actually watched. So this sets up, as I said, Austin hosting Nashville in two weeks for the final. Again, we're going to talk about this in depth as we get closer, but just a quick, you know, 10,000-foot view. This is going to be a game where the onus is on Nashville to make the game.

what the you know it won't be the same that same style as philly in that philly are more abrasive philly want to get up the field they want to high press they want to play more in transition then austin does austin wants to sit in a bit more and then kind of spring on the counter rather than win the ball high up the field but it will be similar in the sense that Nashville has to make this game and and maybe early on they'll have to earn the right to make the game maybe they'll have to sit back or high press or whatever it is it won't like their what i like a lot of lot about Nationals. They're pretty chameleonic. They can play a game against Columbus. They, where they try to keep the possession more than against, again, against a team that wants to

keep the ball. They can play Philly where, you know, their midfield turns industrious, Sam Surge is just knocking into dudes. And again, Walker's Zimmerman, hopefully he'll be ready for this game. Killian a set piece. If you want to go to set piece or whatever, right? Like, they can, they can play several different styles while having their core principles. And I think that'll help them in this final. And for me, they're the favorite, even though Austin are at home. But, this one is really close because of Austin. Austin can repeat the performance that they had against Minnesota. Again, it will be a different challenge because National are more comfortable trying to break down a low block. But again, it's not like they're the 24 LA Galaxy or the 23

Columbus crew. Yeah. I mean, I think like you said, Nashville, it's going to be really curious what those first few minutes look like is if Nashville really properly takes the game to them, I'm not sure how Austin will react there. Like an early Nashville goal certainly sets it in one way and maybe that's not a revolutionary new thought, right? But then it's like, oh, mate, we've got to scrap the plan here, whatever, you know, the more defensive and spring on the counter plan. But look, it could be a bit of a stale cup final to start,

but when you've got two kind of what might be contrasting styles in terms of one team that really likes to play with a ball and another that would maybe rather not, that's either going to lead down Yeah, which lead down the route of a nil-nill-nill draw or a 4-3 win for someone So hopefully be one of the two I'd like to be optimistic

But I'd probably lean the lower scoring Yeah, honestly So those weren't the only Oh, and by the way, I should have checked this out But I was believe that the night of the final Yeah, MLS scheduled the Campione's Cup If you're listening to this podcast, please watch the old Cup final and not the LA Galaxy

versus Toluca. No disrespect to either of those teams. The streets. Why is MLS? MLS saying things like, you know, we love the Open Cup. We really care. All right, let's schedule our makeup regular season games to go against both of the semifinals and then Campionis Cup, a competition that we created. That's a one-off winner versus winner of Mexico versus MLS.

Yeah, let's put that on the final of the Open Cup. It's also not going to look great when last year's champions show up and get absolutely fucking battered, is it? Like, that's really going to be big for the brand. I don't think it's going to be because I'm not going to watch. Spoiler, I'm going to the Open Cup final, and then I'm going to stick

around for post-game coverage of the Open Cup final. And I'm going to focus on the Open Cup final because that's what it should be doing. Don't give lip service so that you really care about this competition and then schedule leave. Not just a random MLS regular season game that had to be made up. The Campione's Cup, a competition you created while saying

that the fixture list is too congested. We can't put all of our teams in the Open Cup. Not great for the hypocrisy scale there. Anyway, there were games on Tuesday and Wednesday. So again, watch the Open Cup final. I know that our audience will, but I'm pushing it there. On Tuesday night, Miami beat Seattle 3-1 and a little bit of a revenge game following the League's Cup final.

Nobody got spit on. Nobody got put in a headlock. And, you know, I believe Obed Vargas was not hassled all of his way out of the stadium. But Miami did win. Rolled on. Looks like he's running on fumes. In hindsight, it seemed like that might have been a game to rotate. Christian Raldon in particular because of how important he is to this team.

So we'll have to monitor that going down the stretch. But Seattle have enough deep, they're so deep and they have enough players that they should be able to rotate. And they're not chasing the shield. So I think that should be their key focus for the rest of the season. And obviously no Louis Suarez in this game suspended for spitting on Seattle Sounders security staffer. And they pick up three points. Well, it's funny because this was a very Miami-Miamy performance, wasn't it? It's like you watch that game.

he went, they're not playing well here, and then Messi does a messy thing. And it's like, all right, this is, this is how it happens. Like, genuinely, this is how they... Started with Yannick Bright, I want to point out. He won the ball, a couple, like, at least two of the goals. Al, yeah, the two goals from open play, he won the ball in the midfield, sprung a counter, and there was two goals, so, well done. Legend and selfishly, one of the best one-on-one interviews I've ever done, actually.

He's all hilarious, lad. Like really shy, but really funny. Everything I'm afraid to let myself want. Anyway, no, but... We don't need to go to, but I'll have some contract news in a little bit. So I think, listen, Miami gets three points. They beat Seattle. Seattle gets the hang of banner and lift the trophy for the last game.

Miami don't for this game. But revenge is good, and they pick up the three points and some needed three points, I think. Last night, NYCFC beat Columbus 3-2. A wonderful game winner by Fernandez. I don't know what's going on with Columbus every time I expect them to perform well. Hell, even that go up 5-0 against Atlanta United and then you check your phone again an hour later

and it's 5-4 against one of the worst teams in a league that should be quitting on a head coach with uncertain futures for everybody on this team. It's been a little bit weird and they look a little bit game and a lot of this happens later in the game. Wilfrennese likes to keep a small squad, so that's something to watch for the rest of the season.

I still think that their ceiling can be high, but the floor is lower than I really ever expected from Wilford-Nanse team. And one quick thought, Hugo Picard made his MLS debut. I don't think he was, sorry, not his debut, his first M-West start for Columbus. I don't think that he envisioned it coming on a baseball field. Does anyone, imagine talent, imagine talent a foreigner of that.

It's like, listen, look, the city's great, you're going to love it, like the facilities, you know, the money, like America, man. And by the way, you're going to have to play on a baseball. for anyway. I don't think that was part of the recruiting pitch. No, it wasn't. Wesse Mabu Ali scored for the second game,

and again, we'll have to see what goes with Columbus going down the stretch. But they've slipped to, let me pull the standards. I think like seventh right now, which is, again, I know the Eastern, yeah, they're in seventh. The Eastern Conference is absolutely loaded. They could be in the play-in game. Orlando or one point behind them with a game in hand. Orlando is too good.

Whoever ends up in the play-in game against Chicago, likely, or the Red Bulls, it's they're too good for that game but the eastern conference has too many teams and whether it's Columbus or Orlando or NYCC they're going to be overqualified for that game but you got to pick up the points to get out of it. Tom are you advocating for full-scale conference realignment? Not in any way whatsoever. Okay. I don't know. There is no hint to that. That was just a reality of the Eastern Conference has a lot of good teams right now. Okay, fair enough. Sorry I'll just come on to your podcast, put words in your mouth. One one more, unless you have a big thought on Columbus, N.

I really don't. I really don't. Yeah, I could assume. I could assume. Fuck off. Other than, no, I was saying, I don't either, other than to make the low-hanging fruit of the Hugo Picard joke. The other game last night that we will talk about a little bit.

L.AFC 4, Rioselt Lake 1. Sun, Jungman, Hattrick, and then Denny Belonga scores to become LAPC's all-time leading score. Sun has five goals and six. and six appearances for L.AFC. Livia Jrude had three goals and 38 appearances. A bit of a quick start for Sonny here. Sun and Bwanga each have five goals in the last four games. They have scored all of LFC's last 10 goals.

The early worries about how are they going to play together, what's it going to be like, what's the spacing? I think they're going to be okay. That's probably the least intellectual thoughts you've had all day. You know what? I think they'll be all right. No, I think the funny thing with Yomintan, right, when he came into the league,

is that everyone's favorite angle, and I say this journalistically as someone who pitched it, and someone else at goal, Ryan Talmad, read it, wrote it wonderfully. But, like, everyone's favorite angle. It's like, oh, it's massive for the Korean community. This great marketing signing, like, you know, the kit with the Korean lettering on the back,

yada, yada, yada. Did we all forget that he's really rather good at football? Not on, not on this, yeah. Well, apparently not, but apparently in the echo chamber, live in everyone was like oh look at the kits and i was like hang on he's still he can still play a bit and i think what's wonderful about him from what i've seen is that everyone talks about you know like the smiles the effort and the everything he runs his ass off bro he he you know there's no there doesn't seem like there's much of a oh you're a luxury player because i've already kind of

got one um but like walanga i'm kind of hating on bawanga i'm being a dude that dude you cannot You cannot hit him for the motor, the engine. Okay, okay. My point being, he couldn't come here and not run, right? Could have. Wouldn't have gone so great, but... Right, that's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying, okay? So, the point is, Son has come here, he's taking it seriously,

and he's played really, really, really well. And I think, what made me laugh was it, the free kick was the funny one? Because what was that? It's called an amazing free kick a few weeks ago. And that's the second free kick he's taking his in his career or something. Because he was at Tottenham and no one let him take them. Because Harry Kane. Like, it's funny.

Like, again, I figured he'd be the son would be really good for free. He put that in the top corner. Like, I texted somebody like connected to him. I was like, why didn't he get to take it? It was like, you did know we had Harry Kane for a decade. Yeah, it's fair enough. Yeah, it's fair enough. What are you going to do?

Yeah, but look, I'm as an American soccer fan. That was hard to say. I'm happy to have him in the league, and he's been brilliant. Can I tell the funny story that I heard? So apparently, I was talking to someone at Goal, and he was saying that as soon as the sun rumor was like, not when it was announced, like there's that in-betweeny period where it's like, who reported on that, by the way, do you know?

Yeah, yeah. One of the times here. Yeah, anyway. So when it's being reported on, someone in K-town in L.A., gets a massive sun, like, fat head and just slaps it on the side of their, like, Korean fried chicken joint and everyone starts going to it, right? That's so cool.

And then the person, and then the owner next door is like, what the hell, I have better Korean fried chicken. And his mate points out, well, there's the sun logo. So the next day, he goes and gets a sun thing. That's so funny, man. That's incredible. And I was like, God, I love it. But look, it's about more than where this guy's from.

obviously and um no he's an amazing footballer and um yeah he he deserves every every goal he's getting yeah so he he's um again i've spoken to people at lefc pretty much saying this immediately and checking with him again earlier this week they're like they go out of their way to be like he's an unbelievable person he's so down to earth he's so like he's like hey man like if he didn't if he just didn't want to talk to anybody if he didn't want to do much media at all like hey we wouldn't love it but he's something young man he gets to do that you look at a long list of other stars currently in the league or previously in the league that he's talking about that mate yeah how many times is yeah like that's their prerogative look

listen lino messy is leo messy i'm not going to kill him for not doing media he's he's beyond it he's above it he's earned it too and listen last night he did an interview on the field with lafc and then he spoke to to the press after the game after the USA game or before the USA game like he's doing that for south korea like he's i don't know man he's he's the most down-to-earth kind of like superstar that I have in recent memory again for the people who are around them are like they just rave about them and you can tell when something is perfunctory when somebody feels like they have to say those kind of things and you can tell when it's genuine and when sun hungman is genuine um after the game he goes he gets asked about the hat trick and he starts

with you know I'm so happy and then the next 30 seconds I think he thanked 17 different players on the team he's like Timmy played me the first ball Denny was so unself like just went on down the list and you know you know Steve for trusting me you know the defense for how well they played and Hugo like he this this man wants to talk about and show his love to everybody else but himself and then and the kit man for how nice my jersey smells and after the game when he's speaking to like the press um again like if you can go watch the video it's like the most genuine biggest smile is quote I'm enjoying every single second every single moment and every single training session every single game.

He's just happy and, like, in our Discord, which you can, you can subscribe to by subscribing to our Patreon and you get access to the Discord, one of, one of our users, PDDJR 88, quote, I know there might be a little homerism in this, and he has a little L-AFC emblem next to his name, so he acknowledged that. But this is one of the reasons I think Sun will end up being better for MLS than Messi. Honestly, I'd say it regardless of what team he's on. Guys, so personable, so likable, and just always puts himself out there. It's an interesting take.

I quite like it. I think one thing I said when this first happened is that Messi'll sell more jerseys, but Sun might sell more TV subscriptions because of viewership. And obviously, if you want to tell us how that's going, MLS slash Apple, that'll be nice. Just the thought.

Sure you've never heard that one before. But no, I think the eyes he's drawing towards a sport and look, you can only sort of speculate when it comes to fans from abroad and that kind of thing. But, like, he's, in terms of building a brand man, he's doing everything, he's doing everything he can, but more importantly, you get the sense that he wants to do it. And that it's organic. This is just who he is. It's not, like, when you say building a brand, it's correct, but it's not like he's thinking, how do I build my brand?

How should I, should I hug Denny Bewan, like, thinking, should I hug him after a goal? No, he just does that genuine. It's just like, where's the camera? How can I aura farm today? Right, right. Or like, it never seems like he has, like, a predetermined, like, Alex Rodriguez was he would just say the things that he thought people wanted to hear him say, and he just sounded so plastic every time he said something. Russell Wilson is like this, too, it's like corny. It's like, dude, do you really believe that, or did you come into this with, like, PR points that you wanted to hit?

It just didn't always, it always felt a little off. With Sun Jung Min, again, maybe I'm just naive, but, like, all this seems genuine. Yeah, I mean, well, first of all, I didn't get either of those first two references since I'm not. from here. And hang on, and then you get mad at me when I try to over-explain like a basketball remedy. You're like, mate, I'm English.

That doesn't mean that I don't watch other things. I was going to say, can you explain that in cricket terms? But, no, but anyway, look, yeah, you can't necessarily question the sincerity here and honestly, like, long may it continue, dude. Like, I, like I said, it'll be great to see him continue to ball. And, I mean, the other key point is that he's still doing it for his national team as well and one thing you sometimes do see with dPs especially when they

get that little bit older they've come to mLS they've already maybe hung it up with the national team or they're not even necessarily as quote unquote locked in right he was immense for career against the us m&T best player on the pitch and then he comes off the bench against mexico and best player on the pitch again right so so look i mean he's still he's still going for it in all facets of footballing and by all indications the associated parts of life and that's brilliant um just really quickly on on messy the guy who just got reps here from our discord um there's reporting out there that has already been out there for months and things that we already knew he's staying in miami and i think that's that's good for the league that's good again the best player ever it's great to have him here

he still he still cares for whatever is going on or whatever the critiques can be of of miami he could particularly after the league's cup final i know he wasn't involved in in that melee but um the man cares deeply he's extraordinarily competitive he's not here to collect paychecks and again i just think that's a good thing and um sounds like a multi-year agreement is what we're looking at which i think is also positive um so he's not going to end up in the saudi pro league with christiana rinaldo doesn't appear that way but he is still a saudi ambassador and he's not going to end up playing three years for barcelona while they still try and open the spotting If I Camp Now part two.

No. Okay. Well, you know, disappointing as that may be, look, I know this must be frustrating for you, mate, because bloody hell, people keep reporting the same thing over and over again, then shitheads like me are like, so what do you know? Like, but look, I mean, all the time we just spent saying, hey, Leo, like, you should do more stuff. As long as he's here, then unless is always going to be bigger, isn't it?

So, yeah. I mean, I just hope it, honestly, selfishly, I just hope it gets done because I'm kind of sick of having the conversation. You know what I mean? That it just gets announced. Right. Like, true.

Look, and I won't, I know you might be trying to tread around something here there and everywhere. So, but like, point is, we're like, well, Jorge Mas said, didn't he? Like, not too long ago. He's like, he's like, we basically, we hope it's all sorted. Like, we're very confident in it. But he can't just be like, it's done. so like if we would like to you know sort that out exactly um and that'll be a good boost for

that to happen now and so to be announced and again more clarity going for again they've been planning under this assumption um it was never really in doubt as far as i understand but um we move on and it does really really quickly it does one thing about like this this messy thing though is that it does always just put a bit of a cloud over miami and them as a football team right when that's just sort of dragging on in the background. It just kind of seems like that, like, until the play is actually signed, even though you know it's signed, it just dominates every single storyline. Yes.

Yes. Yes. And, like, again, well, the part of that is, is, like, that it's not announced. Like, it has to be to say, like, I understand why it's a talking point and everything else. And then again, like, he's the best player in the history of the game for me. And of course, we're going to talk about it. And, of course, this is going to be, like, hey, worrying about, he's going to change his mind or whatever, right?

But, like, you know, as far as I understand, none of this has been a doubt. And Messi continues and should be retiring in Miami. All right. On to the news. We'll open up the ice cream shop. This feels uncomfortable and unbelievably self-serious for me to, and self-important, for me to be the one driving this

and opening up the segment, calling it like this. I usually like it better when it's cost. I didn't want to put Hindle under that here. Read this and tell me that I know things. So let's start with some news. DC United They parted ways with GM Ali Makai

And very quickly And throughout my reporting sounded like they knew Who they were going to hire And my understanding is Erkut Sogit is going to be The new CSO I don't know if anything is signed yet

Or whatever But all indications point that way They spoke as well To Luka's sporting director I'm scrolling his name San Ramam He, Santiago San Ramon he is a really highly well-regarded young executive i asked around for a few people who know him

very very highly recommended dc united talked to him two years ago and he kind of turned it down he wanted to say taluka good decision tuluka's only gotten better and dc have only gotten worse i doubt it if they did offer him that he would take it now that's a guy to watch for the future in mLS i think he will end up in mLS one day but he's not going to have a shortage of options Again, he's somebody who's very highly regarded Toluca just won the Klausura. So back to Sogit. Sogit is a lawyer.

Worked for agencies, including Mezzit Ozil, but he wasn't the direct agent, from my understanding. He was hired by D.C. United as a consultant to help with their head coaching search while Ali Makai was still the GM. Maybe just fire him then, or let him go then. I don't know. I don't love that. Don't love that optics.

He hires a coach, Vrenet Waller, from what I've heard Renee and him are pretty friendly Renee suggested Sogit maybe he should take over Sogit was going to help them with their new CSO search and he looked in the mirror and he found a candidate

and DC United are it seems to be that they're going to be hiring somebody who has no experiences working for a club and no experiences in MLS around MOS not to say that this definitely won't go well, but I will say

there's some warning signs there. You know what? Why not? Yeah, I could give you 75 reasons. It's already gone pretty poorly. Let's just give this a crack. I mean, look, the Dower Englishman in me, which kind of sees like the doom and gloom

and everything is like, wow, this could be poor. Maybe a fresh face is what you need. The fact that there are maybe some connections there could help. I'm always well. one for the outside voice, maybe telling people that they're wrong. But probably what DC United need is a bit of stability,

solidity, and someone who can say, hey, look, I know what I'm doing here. And I'm not sure they've got it. Yeah. I'm not sure either. I like to be optimistic, and I don't want to taint the jury pool and judge too soon. And again, maybe he's awesome,

and maybe, again, a fresh outside look is what they did need. I've heard some mixed reviews. I will say he is a author I think he's written seven books seven

yeah yeah that's quite good yeah that's not just one but that's like that's actually when you get to be an actual author you know what I mean

it's not like it's not like oh I wrote like one I had a crack like he's an actual author there at that point hitting astray at anybody who's only written only written one book

how dare you tell me how many books have you written um don't worry about it so many ideas so little time really quickly uh

alley mackay I think got dealt a really bad hand from my understanding so let's I know this to be a fact through you know three or four different sources when alie mackai took the job

as sporting director he wanted to hire Domey Toronto as head coach there seemed to be an understanding on what that might cost and a green light on budgets there was one counter offer as agents do.

This is what negotiations are. DC United Ownership said, oh, we're never going to find a deal here. No, we have to stop negotiations. And just happened to be that the next candidate was at a much lower price point. And Troy the same takes over. There were some positive signs in year one, ultimately fired in year two.

But from day one, the theme of kind of being undercut or the theme of plans changing, I was told there was going to be a new DP forward this summer. And then that plan changed. Kristen Betake has been really good signing obviously that predates like that was driven by ownership that was really good they kept them here they have the the uh putting in the money to keep them here that's all good

uh beyond that it's not been so good so um whatever happens i do hope that the new cso just gets a here's your budget here's what we're giving you you do as you see fit sporting sporting department decides and things don't change because that's been dc's biggest issue it's that Ben Olson gets fired. Wayne Rooney comes in. Wayne Rooney changes a lot of things of the club in a good way. But you turn over the roster for what Rooney wants, and Rooney kind of changes mine a little bit.

Oh, Ben Tacky's available. Let's go get him. What they do? That's is after they traded Julian Gressel, the best crosser on the team because they needed to make room for other signings. Oh, you want Ravel Morrison on a Max Tandale? Sure, we're not going to look into that in any way. Sign him.

Still got to pay him. Wayne Rooney leaves, as predicted, pretty quickly. Ernan Lassada comes in. as they're trying to get rid of all the players that wanted to play mid-block or that they'd have for mid-block, whatever, or Rooney, or whichever direction, I forget who was first and who was second, I don't, it's immaterial. The point is they are at the stage again where they've hired a new coach, it's going to be a new system that's different from the system that they've signed players

for for the previous coach, and by the time that they get the new players in for the current coach, that current coach is going to be fired, and the sporting director might be gone. It is a constant state of instability and no way to build a team. doesn't that speak to like a larger problem though in like football and squad building is that no one gets no one gets any time and the the funny thing is is like surely a team i mean look dc and i'd have a certain amount of mLS heritage i understand that like that's that's always going to be that's always going to be a thing i mean there you go did i'm like it's it's a it's a burden right but like sometimes you might have to accept being a bit shite for a few years to properly rebuild it and there seems to be a reluctance to do that and where and again for the the people for the criticisms of no pro well where else than mLS to just eat shit for a couple years for the greater good like exactly you know what i mean like so yeah i toronto

learned this they did because they were the short-term fix short-term like they kind of said listen we're probably not going to be great for 18 to 24 months because there were 17 bad contracts, including Insinia and Bernadeschi. And there is no way out of this without a complete rebuild and a complete reset. And it's probably going to be painful at first, but I promise you, it's, we have to get out of the whole one way or another. And now Toronto have that opportunity. They have Georgia Mahaovich, Jose Siflantis, this winter.

They can be seriously, if they missed the playoffs next year, they can be critiqued. But they had to go through that to overturn the roster, to make everything, to start laying foundation for a culture. And I think D.C. United should look at that. And Erkutsog should look at that. And go on from there. Another piece of news, Jim Curtin, as I reported earlier this week, he will take a meeting with New England Revolution. They reached out after they fired Caleb Porter.

I say take a meeting because I don't think it's correct to classify this as an interview in the traditional way because it's less curtain interviewing for that job and more New England saying this is why you should join us. It's like Curtin interviewing New England because he's the top manager candidate on the market. he is under no pressure to take any immediate job he is paid by Philly through 2026 as that's what his contract ran through he's happy with his family he's gotten his first year off from working day to day for a soccer team whether as a player or as a coach in literal decades

so he's at a point where the project has to be right he's he's open to returning now he took a meeting with DC United there was like again I can't say this for Jim Curtin but I'm assuming that the idea of like a sleeping giant of like, if, hey, if I'm the guy that turns run DC United, that's pretty special. And it's kind of similar for New England. They've had success, of course, haven't won at M.SQ up. It could be a different scenario.

Like, New England, the positives here are ownership will spend. And Jim Curtin has established himself enough where I think that, you know, I don't think that he would be asking to be CSO and head coach, kind of like Greg Berlter is, but he's earned the right to say, I'm firmly a part of the personnel decisions more so than like a regular head coach and probably stopping short of like I call the shots on everything

but so again it has to be financially correct the project has to be correct and the people around them but this is an absolute real possibility that curtain goes to New England and we'll see how talked evolve. Do you think that's a good fit? I honestly do.

I honestly do. He like again if they get that new stadium at some point in the next and ready to go in the next few years, it's a fantastic job. And I still think it's a very good job right now or at least the potential to be

because ownership spends and that's important. And there is a few building blocks. You have Carlos Hill. And again, if you rate some of the new signings on a Caleb Porter, like the Academy has been, like again, Chris Tierney,

Kurt Anolfo, what this group has done with the Academy in recent years to produce a lot of really good talent. That's in a great spot right now. And Jim Curtin has done really well with that in Philly. So I think that there's a lot lot of good stuff yeah there's the there's the skeleton of something that could be quite successful there and honestly though respect to i suppose curtain in a sense right for for not jumping back

into it and knowing when the when the right job comes up that he will be the one of if not the go-to guy and um you know maybe new england is that job it'd be cool why not that's my there's my riveting insight it would be cool and he he wants to be on the east coast or prefer that is, again, that he's been very public about that. So that's not breaking news or anything. But as we consider D.C., that's why New England, I think, are within the mix. L.EFC have a coach to Phil in the winter. He's, again, every team with an opening should at least make a call and see where that goes.

Gio Salverese is another name. I think we should be watching for New England. I don't have up-to-the-minute information on this, but as of a couple days ago, there hadn't been contact between Salveret and the revs. That could have changed, but Gio was interviewed for this job when they hired Caleb Porter. And I know that they liked him, so I'm assuming that they're going to interview him again, but I don't know. Gio is another guy where I've done this 15 times on this show. It is shocking to me that he hasn't been in a position to turn down a job.

Like, he's, I think of a very good coach. He's got a very, very high floor, and he's somebody who, again, those Portland teams, that's why New England made sense for me for Gio Sabaresi. Look what he did in Portland with Diego Valerian and then Sebastian Blanco. Carlos Hill, sounds like a pretty seamless transition there and, again, everything else. But again, Julius Havre say whether it's New England or whatever other jobs come open, I'm imagining him to be in the mix for all of these. And we'll see where that goes really quickly before we get to Hindle's random thoughts.

The GM and coach carousels are in motion per sources. Kansas City are talking to front office candidates. Again, Peter Vermeis was the CSO and head coach. Mike Burns was brought into the front office to help, but it sounds. sounds like they're going to be bringing in more reinforcements there. Obviously, they saw the interim manager, too. St. Louis City are talking to front-office candidates as well. I believe both of those clubs want somebody with MLS experience,

but I don't know that for a fact, and we'll see where those go. Again, St. Louis also has an interim head coach in charge. Around the league, again, Montreal, St. Louis, Kansas City, all of interrooms. New England is open for a head coach, and L.A.F.C., again, for 2026R as well, with Steve Tarandolo, returning to Germany after the season's over. over. And speculation is starting to mount around the league and sources I talk to at other clubs. Listen, there's a lot of talk about Atlanta, about whether they're going to move on from dial. I know that that's an absolute possibility, maybe even a probability, but it's definitely

not something that has been decided or communicated yet either way. We'll see how that one goes. So Atlanta United could be in the market again. You kind of look on down the list. Will Eric Ramsey still be here next season? I don't know. I know that there's a lot of interest from him in England. he's been interviewed from championship clubs this season. He was interviewed before he took the Minnesota job. We all kind of knew that best case scenario is they're going to be very good, and Ramsey's going to continue his coaching career elsewhere. It's a rising young manager, so we'll kind of see.

And then I'm certain that there is going to be surprises, and when we get closer to the decision day and teams are out, the carousal is going to keep spinning. One source did tell me that part of the boost for New England is they get the free run of Jim Curtin right now before, you know, let's say Atlanta, let's say insert whatever other team you want to here. If they move on from their coaches, New England has the head start on Jim Curtin. So the carousel is going to be spinning, and we'll be talking about that a lot, but I've been talking too much.

So Tom, I wanted to talk to you about somebody who is an expert on this league, watches a lot of things. But you don't talk about MLS all the time. You write about it a lot, but you don't do this. So I wanted to give you the floor and just five random thoughts. nothing, they don't need to be the five most important things or the five most salient things or anything. Just what comes to mind when I say, you give me five random thoughts on the MLS season. I love Jack McGlynn as a concept. Like, as a concept, right? I took the piss out of you for like stats, but I was on FB. Ref, God, last night. How boring does my life sound for fun?

And it's like the most like 99 percentile, 99 percentile on passing, shot creating actions, progressive passes, pass into the phone, whatever. And then it's like all of the defending numbers are so low. And you know what? And then deep red. Right. This is what America needs. These are the kind of footballers America needs.

Right. None of this woke running nonsense. None of the idea, like off ballwork, don't put in tackles. None of that shite. Just have a really good left foot and ping it around. That is awesome. So I'm kind of obsessed with that. And then watching him play for the USMNT as well was just so funny in that I think it was the Japan game, right?

He comes on and just croquetta at top of the box, tries to bash one in from 30 yards, misses a couple of tackles, doesn't press. And I'm obsessed with him. I'm obsessed with him. And it's quite funny because I was talking to Philly about him. And they said, you know, they loved him, but they just knew he wasn't the right fit. Right. And like they did really well, right, moving him on, getting the money that they did. but I just think he's brilliant

so that's one let me just interject on the patron saint in modern MLS of the 97th percentile and better in all passing categories and the third percentile and worse in all defending categories is Ricky Pooch

just really miss Ricky Pooch and again anytime that we do this FBREF thing it is beautiful and it is the Ricky Pooch Memorial FB ref page it's hilarious McGlynn is in that school he's a graduate he is a master of

it and I love Jack McGlean too, man. It's hilarious because sometimes we'll do that, see, nerds at the goal office that we'll just like send screenshots of FB refs. It's like, tell me who this is. I was disappointed that I didn't have that guess and we had talked about Muglin about an hour

prior to that time. Yeah, I was going to say who did you, well, you didn't guess, you didn't guess McGlynn. I said it, I was like, this has to be a 10. Yeah, yeah, you did see. No bold knowledge. The second thing, another random thought, Evander, I I have loved from afar for a couple of years

because he has a similar thing in that there aren't enough players who just kick ball hard. Do you know what I mean? Like, he just kicks ball hard. And I think that's such a beautiful thing about MLS specifically. Look, I wrote, plug, plug, quite extensively

about, like, creative players in tens and how they only exist in MLS anymore. And I think that that's, there could be a little more nuance to that conversation. Go read it, though. It's all right. but Evander is like the poster child in many ways of that so he kicks the ball really hard

and then he celebrates in front of his old fans normalize that please normalize celebrating in front of your former fans you know the do you remember the it was it was a manual adabio right yes iconic does knee slide whatever I'm fine with that enjoy it we should enjoy scoring goals more Tom when you score in men's league or pick up do you celebrate Not really. I'm more worried this guy anyway. Why?

And I do, I celebrate more from one of my teammates. Okay. Oh, shut up. Let me say, let me, let me turn this back to. Let me turn this back to. So, Don Hindle, the big Liverpool supporter. Hippinately speaking, if Trent's hamstring didn't blow up. Trent comes back to Anfield, scores, and knee slides in front of the cop.

Are you still saying this? Hilarious. It's funny. It's funny. I don't think that that's how you'd feel. feel no I probably know because he's he did his hamstring on purpose yeah no wait to the skirt that the Anfield returned but I I'd text you a rat emoji immediately okay okay another thought I show speed is ruining everything

I'm sick of this guy I'm sick of this guy no this this came up from this came up from MLS All-Star and um Tom you were there I think you were doing a live show, weren't you? No, it was. For this, indeed, in fact. Yeah, sorry. You were doing a live show of this just before the Skills Challenge. And there are these people talking all day, like, oh, have you heard that Speed might be at the Skills Challenge, like, just whispers here there and everywhere from, like, people

in the league, people, like, you know, like, it was mentioned at, like, among, like, other journalists that, like, training and stuff, like, I Show Speed might be here, and everyone's excited. I'm like, why are you fucking excited? This guy is the sign of the apocalypse. Like, this is where it's all going wrong. Like, like a child who got big by shouting Krista Ronaldo is about to make this thing about himself.

And, like, dude, I feel like I've seen a lot of absurd things in person, but watching this guy fail over and over and over again at the Skills Challenge, and people celebrate it was like the weirdest thing I've ever seen. So look, I know, I know, like, he's supposedly the biggest thing in American soccer and he's important to the growth of the game and yada yada yada I'm sick of him I'm sick of him I'm sick of him and the football boomer in me is like

can we make it about proper football and not a kid who has a YouTube account and I'm gonna have to go find the Rondo episode on goal.com I believe the question was asked by our good pal Rahimovich is is I show speed more important than the current player at the top of world football. I don't know if you were on that show or not. I was not. It's hilarious.

I should have been. I should have been. I think there... You saw the rundown and left. Yeah. We had a pre-pro for that, actually, and I think it was actually when I was on vacation. That's how the question got in, yeah.

Yeah, we had a pre-proar. Yeah, yeah, love. Shout out, Rahim. One of my best mates. But yeah, after he was like, you think I wanted to ask that question, bro. I'm not sure I should have just outed him on a podcast like that anyway because we kind of like he was implicated there so that was only fair um I will say

it's not for me but I respect the hell out of what he's built like you know what I I mean like I can I can look at that and say like that's it's impressive but I'm it the same way that some people like comedies and other people like horror movie like I'm not a horror movie guy horror movies aren't for me I still respect yeah they suck they're scaring. I don't see why people would watch horror. I don't see why people would scare themselves for entertainment. Why would you do that? Why would you do that? I watched Liverpool under Roy Hodgson. Give you a break. I watched Silence the Lambs once and I was like this is terrifying. Why do people do this? Yeah, it's now a movie podcast. No, okay. The other one,

I feel like we've touched on this, but Sam Sorridge, I love him. I love him. Like, I mean, he's got, he's got the number, he's got the number nine thing and like, I'm reluctant to equate every week too. Yeah, I'm reluctant to like equate. I'm reluctant to like a Kuwait leagues, right? But you know how people get really mad at Erling Holland for, like, not doing anything other than scoring? When actually, like, an intellectual realizes that he, you know, bullies defenders, makes important runs, yada, yada, yada, yada.

Surridge has got like that Harlan light, L-I-T-E thing to him. Thanks for spelling. You're welcome. But while also just not having any sort of attitude at all, which makes it funny. Because, like, Harland, you get the sense that he's like this evil space demon, right? But, like, Surridge is just like, yeah, it's all right. Don't mind Nashville.

It's okay. Families come over. The Colpalmer. Yeah, well, no, he's not that dumb. I also, that's another thought. I don't think Cole Palmer's stupid. I think he's like, it's like gronk. I love it.

I do. I think, I think it's so, I just think, again, it's genuine. He doesn't, it's more about not caring. And I love it. And I appreciate that he, that he's himself in these. All right, last one. Um, easy. How funny is it going to be when Miami losing the first round of the playoffs? I don't. I think, yes, that would be objectively funny. The likelihood is, like, so small.

There's, just take a step back and 24 and 25 that happening. I just, I just cannot possibly believe that. Oh, they can do it. They can do it. They can do it. They can do it. It's going to be really funny. Let's just, so, again, these are conferences jumbled. It's probably even a waste. of time to do this right now, because Miami have two games in hand. They are six, Charlotte are third right now. That would be the first round matchup. But it'll be somewhere between Sincy, Charlotte, Nashville, maybe Columbus or NYCFC if they climb.

But I will say any of those teams, not likely to beat them, but it's not dead and gone. And to be fair, I would have assumed last year Atlanta was dead and gone. That's what I'm saying. It's going to be funny. And I'm not even saying that in like I hate Miami, hate, messy way. I just think it will be funny. I think there needs to be some more beautiful irony to all of this. And there, and there you go.

On that note, this was a whole lot of fun, Tom Hindle. Thank you so much for joining. Please follow him on social media. I don't know your handles off the top of my head, but I think people are smart enough to use the search function to search Tom Hindle, and they'll figure it out. Tom. Dot Hindle underscore on X.

Okay, maybe. Well, tricky. And yeah, I was going to say, I made it hard. for people. And then Blue Sky, I'm just Tom underscore Hindle. There you go. Yeah, we, we, uh, we favor blue sky here on this show. So that is the more important one. Yeah. Um, all right, everybody. This was a ton of fun. We'll be back next week. Um, I believe Goss and I will be here, but will anybody be here tomorrow? We don't know. It's a day by day situation and we have to figure it out that way.

Can I say one more thing? You can say one more thing. But, um, or producer Keon's going to kill you, but yeah. So, yeah, Keon, I'm really sorry, mate. You're doing so well. Um, he's just sat here patiently. There is a goal, there is a goal, Rondo. Yes, there is a goal live show in New York on Saturday. You will have the misfortune of listening to me talk about football live with Rahim aforementioned. I think Tom Bogart might be there. Are you? Figuring it out in my schedule. Bad friend. But anyway, yeah, honestly. But yes, please, please come there is a part of full on my social media with RSVP links and this, that, and the other

free Medellos football. I will be there. Free Medellos, football to watch. I don't know. There's going to be a good vibe in a lot of people and it would mean a lot if you came because I will vouch that this is going to be a fun event. I know that for certain with you guys involved. Goal puts on really good events.

So if you're in the New York City area, go check it out. I think it'll be a lot of fun. Maybe I'll be there. Maybe you'll see me, maybe not. But you don't need me to be there. You got Hindal. Rahimovich got everybody else. And the Fremondel is a nice little sweetener. So with that, thank you everybody for tuning in to Soccer Wise here on Thursday, September 18th. We'll be back next week, I think.