SoccerWise - US Soccerwise | Pochettino’s USMNT Reset Begins

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

Pochettino’s new USMNT era begins with 13 newcomers and a lot of youth for this extended camp. David Gass and Brian Dunseth break down the roster changes, the opportunities for a new generation of players, and what to watch for across games against Peru, Chile, Mexico and Canada.

Hey, everybody, welcome back to SoccerWise, a U.S. special, and what a show we have. We've got games once again coming out of the 2026 World Cup for the first time. The U.S. men's national team will take the field under their newly appointed Stame head coach in Mariso Pocitino. And the man who will be on the mic for that is the one who's alongside me as you've been hearing him over the last few weeks. Mr. Brian Dunstaff, what's up, Donnie? Yeah, great to see you, my man. Hopefully the vacation was great. You're fully recovered. And, man, here we go again.

A summer of incredible domestic and international football, we turn the corner. Now we got the September and the October window just really smashed together. It's the first experience for what this looks like. And we're in this, I guess, re-identification process of, I don't know, non-negotiables for Maricio Poititino and his coaching staff. And as much as we're going to be talking about the young players, and there are an incredibly talented group of young players, whether they're teenagers or early 20s, my mind starts to then trickle into

what does the under 23 team look like with Steve Truundolo, with Gonzales Sigaris, what does the under 20 team look like? And by the way, even with this, and I know it's not news to a lot of people, but the U.S. Under 19 group as well, all of a sudden you kind of got three layers underneath this group of players that I think over the course of the next couple years are going to have a huge impact, at least on, I like to call it the glass ceiling reference from Trinidad and Tobago

back in the process of trying to qualify for 2018, the old dogs, whether you're talking about a Gucci-A-Wu or a Clint Dempsey or a Michael Bradley or a Jermaine Jones or a Tim Howard. With this generation of players, I'm intrigued to see kind of how this competition opens up. Yeah. And maybe more importantly,

how Marisa Pocitino and his coaching staff continue this evolution of maybe the most important word he's used, culture, with regards to the U.S. men's national team. there is so much to talk about coming into this. And you touch on a lot of it already. We will dig into the four games. We will dig into the roster.

We'll dig into how we think Pachitino sort of handles what's coming up, what he said, what he's talked about. And of course, we think next week we will have a U.S. Women's National Team roster to dig into as well. So when we get into these big moments where one team is sort of active, we're going to focus on that one team.

We will have those Spain games coming up. we'll have roster reaction and preview and everything coming for you on that side of things. But what do you make of the four game window and the extended window? Because this has been the second conversation that's happening here is, you know, for each nation, there is coming out of the World Cup or the failed cycle, resets, new coaches, new players. Yergen Klopp is called in 44 players for his first camp. And he's talked about PEP coming back and taking team.

Like, there's a lot going on. The nature of this camp, though, I have to say I'm a. fan for now, at least, before it's happened, because I like that it is going to feel like the coaches can have an impact and an effect. And it is not, oh, they're back with their club. Now, they're back with their national team. Now they're back with their club. So to me, it makes sense, even though a lot of people are frustrated. Yeah, I think it is almost like a hybrid when you think about whether we're talking about World Cup qualifying or an international friendly window where it's a short timeline, right? You're basically thrusting two games within a week. You're asking players to

in the midst of recovery mode, get on an airplane, fly to the United States. Hey, by the way, the coach is really only going to get his full team on the field with their boots on training at high intensity, maybe two sessions, max before a game kicks off. So I think this is, I would use the analogy that it's somewhere between the opportunity for the Nations League, where the semifinals and the finals, which is really a tight timeline versus maybe the Gold Cup, where it's an extended timeline much longer. Five weeks. Yeah, and almost up to five weeks.

So this one, this one's interesting because I think it's a perfect setup for new managers or returning managers to really open up the idea of the roster because you're going to give opportunities because we're on the backside of World Cup. That's the obvious. But on top of that, I think you get players into camp. You get them in a recuperation mode. And then you understand that it's a blank slate for the most part. I mean, there's some non-negotiables and there's some absolute starters.

And there will be always the conversation about Christian Policic and everybody else that's involved. Weston McKinney, Tim Wea, you know, on and on and on, which is fine. That's because they've earned the right to be a part of those conversations. But I love the fact that in this window, you're going to have a bunch of games, but you're also going to have enough time where, yes, there is the threat of players not recovering in time. There is the threat of players going down like Ricardo Pepi. There is the threat of, I guess, physical management and the communicative skills from the U.S. men's national team with their respective clubs. But ultimately, listen, I think when the group is together, you have the opportunity to see the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Because right now, we're talking about talented players coming in. We're talking about first impressions from the way that they carry themselves to the way that they activate for training to the way that, you know, they handle the competitive atmosphere, the way they handle the recovery mode in between these games. I think there's going to be so many data points. And I would stress to anybody that is unsure of about Marisa Pocitino and his coaching staff, that the details matter more sometimes than the performance between the white lines over the course of the 90 minutes. Yeah, this is a true chance for him to be around these players and see them in the ups and downs and see the recovery. And,

And then the other piece that's going to be huge for this is 13 new players in, multiple players coming in that weren't at the World Cup. From a cultural point of view, like you're kind of going to get to build an actual group across these two plus weeks. And I think that's going to have a huge factor going forward of who fits in well, who doesn't, who's leaders, who's not, who follows in the right way, especially for these young players. And, you know, we know the sort of like warning shot that Potch sent Kevin Sullivan before the call up in

and all of that. Like I think all of that, though, is going to go into how you fit in. How are you a positive piece of this team? And one of the things I always think about is like, Potch is not a national team coach. He's a club coach. And he's been doing this now for two plus years. He's clearly gotten better at handling players coming into camps. But Greg's talked for years about how he developed as the national team coach of how much am I onboarding players with.

How much am I giving them when they're with their clubs? How much am I doing in person? this is more of like a club preseason set up than it is a national team camp, which is where from the Gold Cup and pre-World Cup, so far, Potch has done his best work. The longer he has the team, the better they have looked. And on top of that, I would say the learning curve

has also included the idea of man management skills. Not that that was something that he needed to learn because obviously, I mean, listen, he opens up his phone. and he's got Messi, he's got Mbapé, he's got Namar, he's got Sergio Ramos, he's got Donoruma, he's got Hakimi, he's got Marquis, right, he's got Harry Kane, Delioli, he's funny. Future NFL, All-Star Harry Kane, Pro Bowl. Yeah, I guess.

That's what I keep hearing. I mean, it seems to keep popping up on all my 4U pages. Yeah, listen, I think in all of this, you bring up something that always triggers a response in my mind. and I think the challenge, and this is something that Greg learned, and I think all managers have learned, is there's a subtlety in this conversation that also includes how do I manage individuals within the collective? And by that, I mean, this is unlike club football. He can't just say, Andrew Stounded, out, Danny Rose, out, you know, like, insert name here. this is the group of players. Now, it's different, right? Because in that really tight window that he had the group,

he's establishing a lot of non-negotiables. And stylistically, well, I guess, let me go back. Culturally, you're talking about a guy who represented Argentina. You're talking about a guy that played at the highest level. You're talking about a guy that this innate, like, undeniable DNA conversation about when your national team reaches out and calls you in, you accept. It doesn't matter if you're tired. It doesn't matter if you're exhausted. It doesn't matter if you have a wedding plan. It doesn't matter if you've scheduled that vacation. It doesn't, like none of those things. And by the way, I would,

I would also urge people to understand their understanding and their depth and their touch, it goes all the way down. I mean, and he said this the other day. And it was the first time I'd really heard him say that. That, and I think it was his first speech to the group, is something to the effect of, you know, even all the way down to the under 15s. Yeah. So he said, the crest is the crest and you are all connected. Yeah.

And so my, my, my, my, my, my simple suggestion to anybody involved with the U.S. men's national team as a player, got to go. Yeah. Like, don't say no. So, don't say no, because that has a trickle down effect that could cost you forever. So I think in all these moments, and, you. And this is where I'm really interested to see. How do you give and yet take?

How do you allow players to express themselves and be who they are? But at the same time, draw that line where everybody's accountable across the board. And there's outliers, right? You know, if Christian misses the Gold Cup, that's a different conversation than Eunice Musa missing the Gold Cup. As we saw, he never came back in. So I'm intrigued to continue to see in this second version of Marisa Pochette. and this national team, how the non-negotiables become that much more clear

with what they're trying to build ahead of 2030, which is a long ways away, but seemingly shows up out of nowhere and surprises us all. So I'm not going to rattle through the roster because everyone listening to this show already knows it. But the stats, obviously 13 newcomers, 13 returning World Cup players as a 28-man roster. Pottch has now called up 62 different players.

This is a little bit different. though because it's the change of cycle. I want to start with the guys that aren't here, though. Because you mentioned, like, you got to come when they call because you're getting your chances and the way that they treat this is like the expectation is that this is the most important thing to you. Polisic, not here coming off injury, but not here. The only person specifically, I think, um, Pott's talked about was, was Flob Oligan

saying we reached out about the Everton thing, his injury. We now saw him get back on the field for Monaco this weekend. And that one a little bit more explained. Weston McKinney has had injuries as well. But what do you make of the decision not to bring specifically Polisick and Weston who have been the faces of this team? Yeah. Listen, no matter what, the moment that you mentioned Christian Polic ears perk up because

of what he's done throughout his career, what he's meant to the national team. And for me, the transition, one of the big reasons is obviously the same. success on the field, but also we all look at him as that transition moment from Landon to Clint to Christian Policic. And I don't know if it's a linear conversation, but somewhere in there, we're talking about the most creative guys out of our generation post kind of Tabramos and Claudio Raina, and kind of that then turned into, you know, these two and now these three with Christian Policic. I'm I if you if he just said listen he hasn't been playing he got injured he got injured against Belgium you know you guys all saw he had that hairline fracture that's what you told us you know

Ruben Amarame didn't play him for a reason now whether that was tactical or it was recovery we don't know medical wise where he was at we don't know what his load management look like we don't know if they were concerned because of the previous history of injury and what happened last year in the buildup to the world cup if they were just taking it a little bit slower because effectively there's rush. So that one, he and Weston, I kind of put in the same category of understandable. Haven't played a lot of minutes. What's the point? Now, as I say that, somebody could easily come back and say, hold on a second. Hold on a second. What about Flo Ballion? When he wasn't playing a lot of minutes, they brought him in and played him into rhythm.

Right. Eunice Musa, when he was on the outside of either A.C. Milan or Atalanta, they brought him in and recovered his confidence and gave him minutes. So I get all that. Like you said, Ricardo Pepe's obvious, Flo Balagan's obvious. But, you know, we could maybe ask questions about Tim Wea. We could ask questions about Brandon Aronson, Mark McKenzie.

I don't know how deep we want to go with Matt Turner or Joe Scali. But there are some significant adjustments from that World Cup roster, which I would stress to everybody, the World Cup roster is never about the best players. It's about the best group, the best collective. At the moment. At the moment.

At the moment through a World Cup process. And I think that's, it's an important distinction just to remind people about it. Also, when you walk away from the World Cup and look back, take away the Turkey game, he trusted 12 to 13 guys. Yeah, it was pretty clear who he trusted. Right. So it's really hard to walk away from that and say, well, Joe Scali and Mark McKenzie are World Cup or, you know, their Pach's guys. They were on the roster. Like they very specifically

were not. Tim Wayo was not a trusted piece of Maricio Pachitino's group. So the assumption, I think, coming out of the World Cup with those guys is someone else is going to get a shot to prove that they're above you and you're now in a battle against them. And this was the piece that Tom brought up yesterday on the show when we did a short convo about looking into this camp, which we have mentioned the exciting part about this is the guys who are coming in to get their first opportunities are have all earned it. Like you talk about from 2018 on and Tom mentioned it yesterday like Tyler Adams and West McKinney were thrust into the national team because they had no choice, not because

they were ready or they had earned it. Even you mentioned it. You go through the list of the U19s called up. Half of them legitimately play in MLS. Yeah. Like half of these and especially in an international break, Chase Adams and Jude Terry, but Maddie dos Santos, Maxie Dostos, Mexico. Carrizo.

Like, these guys are currently affecting games at a professional level where... Yeah, Tate Johnson up in Vancouver. Yeah. And eight years ago, the guys who were in the senior team weren't even affecting the game consistently at the pro level. And it has, that is a huge shift. I also think that's a byproduct of the failure to qualify for Russia in 2018. Yeah. You know, everybody was screaming for the rooftop to, you know, burn it all down, burn it to the ground, reset.

it. Well, that's happened two different times. I mean, the institutional knowledge at U.S. soccer since the departure of Sineal Galati has gone through kind of two different generations of continued growth to where we're at right now. So, you know, I'm also intrigued to see with everything Emma's created on the women's side, is there like a duality somewhere in that conversation of, you know, the outstanding young core of 23s that continue to kind of have their opportunity to then push into the first team on the women's side. We're kind of seeing a natural alignment, I guess, with Steve Truundelow's signature and taking over, which, by the way, I think is a brilliant, brilliant move. Because number one, you have a U.S.

International inside the bubble with Marisa Pucatino. On top of that, you have a guy that understands what the Olympics means to the United States. And unfortunately, he missed out with his name in the injury, teammate of mine and the 2000 group with Clive Charles. And then on top of that, very quietly having these dual camps. And we used to do it with Clive and Bruce and Steve Sampson back in the day. All of a sudden, these 23s that are in these scrimmages and are in these moments start to catch the eye of the national team.

All of a sudden, your camp might be over. And they're like, oh, you're not going home. today. That happened to me like three occasions. You know, you go and you train and then all of a sudden Steve Samson says, hey, hold on, hold on. I don't know if this is a blessing or a curse, by the way, as I look back. But you're like, Mr. Dunseth, you are staying with the men's national team. Congratulations. And that was like, you're like, oh, man. Yeah. I, I, so Snyder Bernel is one of those guys that I think, like, in my mind, I'm starting to think, okay, the 23s that aren't in here, who's got that next kind of jump ability.

And I think it's this is, this, this, very quietly behind the scenes, I think this has been a major focus of this generation from the under 17 group to the under 23 group that we're going to see a huge, talented group and a pool, a kiddie pool, if you will, that Marisa Pocitino is going to be able to, you know, kind of pluck 1V1 and take a look that then creates for all the guys that were, part of the World Cup team, this sense of urgency, not only domestic performance, weekend, week out, but if they do indeed get a recall at some point, how do I win my battles? How do I, how do I separate myself from these incredibly talented young kids?

So I spent this week going back and watching some of the games in Europe for some of these guys because with MLS and NWSL, sometimes I don't get to watch all of it I want to. And there's two that I specifically wanted to watch a ton of. and it was Giorana and Eunice Musa. Because to me, outside of the 13 uncapped guys, they're the two most fascinating names in this group for different reasons. I mean, Eunice Musa is a full-time starter pretty much at Milan right now. And you watch games.

He loves them. I mean, they play Yuve and it's him and Mojerk. Like, this is a guy who couldn't get on the field for Alanta on loan, couldn't get on the field at his position, couldn't make it back into the national team. But in watching him, I'm a Musa fan because there are things that I fall for

with every soccer player. There's like two types of players I fall in love with wingers that can beat guys 1 v1 because like wow, that's the whole thing and guys who are secure and safe in all moments and as I watch Musa with Milan right now, it's not that different. Like the complaint about him has always been

there's no thrust, there's no attacking threat, he doesn't take risks in his passing, like everything is very safe. But the thing you get with him is everything is safe. He can cover the entire field. He can be an option for everyone and he can get out of every piece of trouble. He has done that for Milan. So I'm interested to see what Pochitino felt he has changed because I think he's still the same player. It's just, that's a good thing to have. And I never understood

how he didn't have a spot in the team from a production point of view over the last two years. By the way, he's 23. It's crazy. Yeah. Like, I, in my mind, I have to like recap, recap, calibrate every time. I'm like, he's got to be like 26, 20. I mean, yeah, why he's, he's in the median of his career. Yeah, of course. And then I'm like, oh man, he's still like, we forget how young, you know, a couple of these players are. I agree with you. I've, I've been able to catch snippets of AC Milan. And I caught obviously the, the assist and the goal from Polisic in the back-to-back games. But talk about a footballing IQ masterclass that he's getting right now with Luca Modrich. He's insanely in talented. Like for those that don't know, Eunice, he's got a Cheshire

cat smile. He's as humble of a human being that, you know, you'll ever come across. He feels very introverted, but then he's expressive, extroverted when he's on the field. He's as combative and he's not combustible. Like Tyler? He's like he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, He's not going to like try to eat you, like just eat you every chance he gets. He's going to outthink you, he's going to outsmart you. But to your point, like the thrusting with the ball, like breaking through the lines, that's part of this evolution of what's being asked. And again, as a Manchester United fan, I was really happy to see the backside of Ruben Amarim

at the stage of the season in which he left. But I was very, very intrigued the moment he signed with AC Milan, because I was actually over in Italy when that announcement was made. And the first thing I think of is obviously what does this mean for Christian Policit? Because we're all Americana homers. And we want to see him succeed. We want to see him in that conversation with Latoura Martinez, goal contributions the way he was before he picked up the injury last December or so.

And then Eunice. How do you, I mean, there's an amazing footballer in there. And I agree with you. Was he good enough to make the World Cup squad? Yes. where there's, has there been, and this is where Marisa does a great job of managing the narrative and cutting the legs out of anybody who asks the question about individuals, is that he's kind of, he's, he's pushed it so far to the side that it's almost left alone.

Yeah, no one asked. Because everybody knows that you're not going to, I prefer not to talk about the players that aren't here. I prefer to talk the players are here. But at some point, I think we'll have a little bit more clarity. There's going to be a canary in the coal mine that's saying, that gives us a better understanding as to why if it was indeed just turning down that goal cup a couple of summers ago,

or if there was something else. And I'm not trying to be malicious. I'm not trying to be mysterious. I'm just trying to, because I don't even understand why. And it's probably because of lack of form. And yeah, I think for his problem for him is he fell out, aka he chose not to come. So now he's outside looking in.

And he never really had the moments to get back in because he wasn't playing enough. The other piece is, you look at the guys who got into the team over the end of that cycle, and they were, I mean, Doyle talks all the time about the Uruguay fight

and the Paraguay fight, and who was first off the bench and who wasn't, and Sebberhalter and Christian Rolled on are scrappy. Like, that's what they are. And for everything you said about Musa, and he is not soft, but he is not scrappy.

And he doesn't, like, exude that. And I think what Potch landed on towards the, the end of the cycle, which is what Burrhalter ended up on, I think for a lot of his cycles, too, was like international soccer is about winning the, it's about winning your duels and winning the half moments and gaining every inch. It is not the beautiful game. And I can't like really afford it. Now you come to the beginning of a cycle where you can go pie in the sky. I want to dominate the game. I want to dominate the ball. We're going to stretch the field wide. And now Eunice Moose is going

to have all this space. And it will be fascinating in this group. One, we don't know what formation. Maricio Pachitino plays. Like, I think many people assume that is this three, five two setup, whatever you call it. I built formations in different, like, I've built three in the back, I've built four in the back, trying to figure it out. And by the way, really quick side note to your point, I mean, think about this. Okay, Eunice is back. Johnny's not.

Yeah. Tanner Tessman's not. Yeah. Aiden Morris isn't. I mean, there was a moment a couple of falls ago where Jen Lucubucio was starting every game for Marisa Pucatino. So, you know, general reminder that there are so many different, like, categories and subcategories. And a lot of that, I love the fact he's opened this up to almost reward the guys that did

really well at the World Cup and then combine that experience with, and that leadership profile and maybe this vacuum of leadership with Weston and Tim Wayne. and Christian not being there, and Flo and Ricardo Pepe and Tom Ream, that all of a sudden it kind of like opens up opportunities for leadership. Yep. That I think maybe changes the category of the conversation of these guys know who they are. They have cultivated relationships and vibes and culture that has gone all the way back to where they're 15 and 16, but now this is the new group.

And we're going to allow the new group to try to break through and see those domestic performances, whether international or abroad or good enough to be on the full national teams. And I wouldn't be surprised as well if this is a chance for guys to become leaders inside that age bracket of, okay, we'll probably come out of this and the assumption is Brooklyn Raines is going to be a U-23 play. Right. He's an Olympic player for the most part. But if Brooklyn Raines is a leader and socially in that group, now you've already started to do the work for Steve Chorundlow to build that group in the U-20s and the U-19s. I've said Raines because, so Brooklyn, Reins is less than two years younger than Eunice Musa. So to your point about age and like where we're at, Raines is this unproven potential player.

And Musa and Giorina are barely two years older than him. And they've both been around forever. Raina, the other one, by the way, watching him with Strasbourg, the thing that stuck out to me is the ordinary shit. he just feels like a normal soccer player for the first time in three years. And it's not even the pure creativity and whatever. It's he is on the field for 65 minutes. He's closing down his guy. He's in the unit.

I mean, they got crushed by Paris FC in possession in the last game. He wasn't great, but he was shadow marking and he was helping and he was, you know, making recovery runs. And it's like for him, that's the flashy stuff because the flash.

stuff is so natural for him. And that's the part now where it's like, Strausberg, I think so far has worked of, he is playing 65 to 75 minutes every single week for the first time pretty much in his life. Yeah. And I think this conversation probably includes, and again, listen, I mean, it was him, Jude Bellingham, and Erling Holland.

I mean, that was the attacking phase of play for, I guess you can throw Jason Sancho in a little bit. at Dortmund. And then when we heard he was going to go out on loan, I guess we were all kind of like trying to handpick what was going to be right. And we had talked about Spain. I think Sevia was on the docket at some point. Then he went to Nottingham Forest and his agent was their agent, but it was over here and his agent, but hey, by the way, they got Morgan Gibbs White. So you're going to be a 10, but you're not really a 10. So that turns weird. And then at Mochen Gladbach, the manager said the same thing each and every week. He trains really well. He

does well when he gets opportunities. We just need him to stay fit. Yeah. So I don't know if this is, and again, on the field, off the field, he's married now, you know, he's taking, he's continuing to, that's what we forget. They go from like 19 and 20 year olds to all of a sudden they're married and having children. For sure. So there's like a maturity conversation off the field that comes along with this.

Less pressure, still high status, and an incredibly athletic league. when you're talking about league on football. So this could be quietly the best decision for his career that could have been made at this point. So I'm fascinated to see if he can maintain the fitness. That's it. I mean, he's a unicorn. He plays different than everybody else. I think a majority of us, I'm a homer when it comes to geo.

There's just something about him. Like you rub your fingers together when you watch him play and you're like. Or when you talk about him on a podcast. Yeah, like I don't know who that. I don't know what that is. but I know it. Like, I know it when I see it.

And that's, he's, he's one of those kids. And the status part is interesting of, he's not the anointed one anymore, right? And he's not the great hope. Like,

Kevin is and Julian Hall is and Justin Ellis is. And so I wonder if the just level of interest coming off of him, lessons over the next few months around the U.S. And if we start to see, again, less pressure to force himself in. And,

you know, there's a lot of players. as we cover MLS, as we cover international, there's so many players who made probably the wrong decisions over the last 12 months because the World Cup is such a specific life opportunity and for the American players, even more so of how could you get yourself in there? We're now outside of just playing for the U.S.,

the decisions you're making are more long term of like what is best for your career and what it is going forward. Let's talk overall roster and then we'll talk about the kids because obviously we have to talk about the kids. Four games across the window. for anyone who doesn't know, it's Peru on Saturday in Orlando at 4.30 p.m. Eastern time. Then they play Chile in St. Louis on Tuesday night. Then again on Saturday, late night game in Phoenix against Mexico.

And then again, they play on Tuesday against Canada. So across the, whatever it is, 10 days, 11 days, it's four games with training coming into that Chile game or that Peru games having already started. and that's really one of the big bulks of training that they'll have, and then the time in between Chile and Mexico. How do you think you handle a roster for a window like this? What does the rotations and process look like? Yeah, I would separate, I guess in my mind, the way I'm approaching this, and Luke Wildman and I were talking about this,

you almost separate Peru and Chile from Mexico and Canada because it's kind of like two appetizers before the two. two main meals. And in my mind, I keep coming back to, you can effectively make 11 changes. Why not go into the mentality of, you know, you can have your spot board and you can walk through everything that you're trying to do and have your, I mean, it's what I'm doing. I mean, I've got my three, five, I've got my trustee three in the back and my trustee four in the back. And so as I'm working through this, and again, the identification process specific to these young players is going to be in person and it's going to be a lot of data watching why scout or whatever and then

you have a good idea as you've done your due diligence and you've talked and you get a better idea of the personality and the level of the potential of the player but you really don't know until that ball rules and i can remember the very first time i walked into that group for steve sampson the 98 world cup in the lead in i was in all those camps there's a difference between what you think it's like Yeah. And then the moment like where everyone starts flying around, their tails are on fire, and everyone's kicking the ish out of each other because you got ego of established guys and then you got the young guys.

Like John Harks used to kick the crap out of me. And finally I kind of pushed back and I was like, I'm not good enough to take your job, bro. Chill the F out. And then we were cool after that. I think it's got to be two groups or at least the idea of two groups. The game gives you, you know, whatever process his group has, Maricio and his staff, whatever the game gives him, he's going to have kind of watermarkers of what he wants to do before the opponent either succeeds or fails. But I would, I would want to see, in my mind, two sets of teams that gives me a really good watermarker for the individual and the collective talent within the group.

And then knowing that Rafa Marquez is bringing in his strongest possible team outside. side of injury and then Jesse's doing the exact same and you know we all wants to burn you to the girl oh jesse molochoff cocktails just chucking him left and right he's but that's jesse jesse is the exact same person now that he was as a player yeah like jesse is who he is and there's there's nothing like there's nothing he's selling commercially there's no acting that's involved like that's just so I think he's got to figure out with this group who's ready and he'll realize that really quickly

in the competition of training because it goes from Superfront, great vibes, and I know we weaponize it, great vibes, the culture's amazing, and then you walk over that line and you start activating and Sylvia and Sebastian, they start the warm-up process

and then it gets into Migi and Jesus running the session while Maricio kind of walks around. Tony Jimenez is making the goalkeepers puke over in the corner, which is amazing. He's just barking at it like a rabid dog. And then you get into kind of the full game scrimmage stuff, and it's details. Everything is about the details.

And by the way, these younger players are going to learn really quickly that are new to the squad, that you better treat every staff member the same way you would treat Maricio Pochitino. Because if you deviate from that, immediately. But I would start with two teams. Two different looks and see what you. Yeah. So I agree with you. I think of the ideal.

Well, ideal is not right. I think I could understand many different ways of going about this. To me, I would break it as Saturday and Tuesday, right? One game a week is very natural. It's natural on the body. You could work the players outside of sort of getting ready for the games in a way physically. That sort of mimics more of a training week. But I would say that in all the caveat, which is Mexico at home is an outlier.

So what I would like to see is one 11 on Saturday against Peru and a totally different 11 against Chile. I would mix them in a way in which it's not a central midfield of Brooklyn Reins and Audrey Mametti. Right. You're giving one Tyler. You're giving the other one Sebastian or Musa as support. You do the same along the back line. The games that Gozo starts on the wing, you're not starting Frankie Westfield behind him. So he's completely sort of out there amongst that.

And I think I would say if you feel strong about it, you kind of work the same two teams for Mexico and Canada with slight tweaks. If some people very much are not prepared, now you look at it and say, all right, it's fine. You know, I don't care that Chris Richards started on Tuesday. We have Mexico on Saturday. This is the game. And Neil Pierre is not ready. We're not going to start him at center back against his team. I would say, though, I would like to see the test across the first two games.

this is one of the spaces that is a tough convoy, which is, I don't think results matter, but also they just had the biggest World Cup they've had in 35 years, and the sport is on a precipice and losing to Peru is tough for Colin Coward to explain on the show that now finally talks about soccer and for Stephen A. Smith to complain about all that stuff. And that's a space that I don't really feel as strongly about, but other people will. But I wouldn't be shocked to see that at least for these opening two games. to at least get an idea, as you said, who everyone is and how it all fits together. Yeah, I would say that the results don't necessarily matter against Peru and Chile, but the optics sure do.

Yeah. And then when we get to Mexico and Canada, especially playing in the United States, those results really, really matter. Because we all know what happened in the Nations League. And obviously, when you're talking, you know, that's specific to Jesse Marsh in Canada. but then we're talking about Mexico. We're talking about Rafa Marquez and this whole group. Like this is Aguetta. It's a war.

Like this is everything, you know, they want to effectively kill us and we want to kill them. And in footballing terms. For people listening, those were air quotes from Duny. Sorry, I did air quotes. That's why I tried to delay it. Sorry, I forget. Here's the other thing. Keep in mind, crazy stuff happens.

Crazy. Crazy things happen that you could never account for. for. For example, if Chris Richards doesn't have a little bit of an ankle knock heading into New Jersey against Korea Republic, then that doesn't necessarily mean a guy like Tristan Blackman gets to start. And because they were chasing and they were down 2-0 at halftime, Chris Richards comes on, they switch to three in the back. And that's the first time we start to see an evolution of a three-man back line. A side note to that is that Christian Polisic and Diego Luna

were playing dual tens in that game with a flat four and then when Chris Richard comes in and they go to three, Luna gets like five minutes on the field and then Zendayaas gets minutes. He gets the start the next game. He gets Man of the Match honors against Japan. He scores his goal against Japan.

And then all of a sudden, Diego Luna seems like a 100% lock-in type of player. All of a sudden, this kind of like transcends in the wrong direction, or, sorry, steers into the wrong direction, and he finds himself on the outside looking in in the most important decision-making moment for Marisa Votian. So in the midst of this, there's always kind of crazy data points that are happening that we're not always paying attention to. And that's where there's, like you've talked about, there's like the expectation level, which is, you know, if you come in and you don't give it against Peru

in Chile because in your head you're like, ah, it's just Peru and Chile. It doesn't matter. Then you're in trouble. But the flip side is, if you have a big moment or you stand up, you know, the way Weston McKinney went after some Mexico players in 2021 at the Nation's League final, like, that is also a defining moment that could keep you around the team because of the rivalry in those moments. Let's talk about the young kids. 13 potential first time debutants.

You know, this is, I don't know if I said yet. The average age of this team is a little over 22 years old. it's four years younger than the World Cup roster was, which was one of the four or five youngest average rosters at the World Cup. So we've said it a million times. We've talked about most of these guys on this show. I mean, Kevin's an obvious one, but who are you most excited, interested to see whose maybe role?

Do you question where it'll be? Like, which of these guys are you really watching out for or thinking about? Yeah, let me start outside of MLS. I still want to see Diego Koshan. I've watched him in camp a bunch. I think he's, and I say this with the utmost respect, and I'm going through kind of the training data in my mind. With the ball at his feet, he gives a different security

than what we've seen from the other goalkeepers for a long, long time. I'm interested to see Cole Campbell and Mathis Albert, the two kind of hybrid teenagers, kind of young, 20-somethings, that we're always talking about, oh, dual national, or, oh, they could be available. Or one day, this is, I'm intrigued to see how, like, up close and personal, the idea of how we've exalted them to be like, ah, this is the next generation.

Like, I'm excited to see what they look like in person. Um, Mehdi, I just think he's, he's, he's, he's wise and intelligent. He's got that old kind of dog mentality for a young kid. And under the tutelage, by the way, of not only Julian de Guzman, but Michael Bradley. So you got two of like Concaf's best number sixes going back a few cycles that are working with him. I'm intrigued by Peyton Miller on that left hand side because we haven't really had a lot of competition for Jedi Robinson. I know Max Sarston made a great move and he got his goal the other day for Burrow. but Max always felt like a tweener.

Like, is he a Concaf guy? Absolutely. Is he like a World Cup level starter? Not really, but still insanely talented player and continues to carve out an incredible career for himself. I've said this a couple of times. I finally worked it out because I was listening to, I think Doyle and Tom talk about it the other day when I wasn't on the show.

I think if you gave me an over-under on highest-level career, I'd take Peyton Miller, mainly because I think he'll play left back and left wing back where there's more opportunity. And I think he'll be world class. He has the potential to be world class at that position in a way that I wouldn't even put Kevin and Mehdi in right now just because it's so hard to be a world class center mid. And I think Tom sort of said it. Like if Mehdi played for Rossing Santander or Espaniole, his whole career or whatever,

Deppore, like it would be a great career. And I agree with that. I think Peyton Miller is the best prospect at that position. since Alfonso Davies, who went in was world class at his position because there's a little bit more flexibility to get in at that spot. And so I think Peyton Miller has this sort of ceiling that's different than a lot of these guys. As you mentioned it, in competition with Jedi, we haven't had at a position that's always been a struggle for the U.S. for 35 plus years. I want to ask you about Gozo here, because you've watched him up close more than anyone.

One is, it's tough, you know. He's trying to break into a team in a new league. They've played him at center forward. They've played him on the wing. All of it's latent games. All of it's chasing the game. What do you think his position is with this group? And what do you think his sort of potential is inside the U.S. men's national team? Let me start with as a human being, he's up there with some of the best.

This kid's maturity. I mean, he's so self-aware in moments. Like, at no reason when I first met him to ever come up to me. and came over and introduced himself. Every time I see him at training, he would come up and shake my hand and ask me how I'm doing. Like there's a connectivity,

there's a maturity, there's something that's like really clicked that he's a, I mean, you know some of these knuckleheads. I played with a bunch of these knuckleheads. You know, the did to do's out there. You know, they're just to play. He's got like a really good awareness about him.

The player himself, listen, the numbers don't lie. He was off to a flyer. Great first half of the season. If you talk to Pablo or any of the performance staff at Riala Salt Lake, his numbers specific to his full sprint to recovery ratio is like elite Olympic world-class level. Now, listen, I mean, if we dig into the details about the move to Crystal Palace, obviously David Blitzer, you know, it's the same umbrella. It seemed rushed.

It seemed forced through. there was a lot of money exchanging hands. Was he ready? Only time will tell. Would he have benefited by staying with the Real Salt Lake and finishing out the season? That would have been beneficial as well. But making that jump, signing with Crystal Palace,

you don't say no to that, right? Changes to a tier one Nike athlete. Now he's in the U.S. men's national team. Like, it's life-changing events. But within that conversation also, we should talk about Crystal Palace as a new coach. We should also talk about Crystal Palace

wasn't done in the window. He ended up spending roughly 65 million. on a couple other of attacking attacking wingback positions. So that becomes a challenge to itself. And then the intensity and the focus and the scrutiny and the pressure, all of those things are going to be new.

Scored that goal in the reserve or the under 21s against Arsenal. Against Man City came on, had a great little hill flick, and then proceeded to struggle. And that's fine. We knew he's going to struggle. But I think the selling point

from RSL's standpoint was Europa League, F-A-Cup, Carlyne-Carrubal Cup. These are all moments where if he's not in the Premier League squad, he's going to get games. He's going to play a lot. So I think it's still going to be a betting in period. As much as we talk about player profiles, and we just got done talking about Peyton Miller, I think it's also important to establish the intelligence of these two players.

Like the athleticism is great, and we can point to all, you know, the ability to get in behind, and the power and all, start with the mentality. Like monster mentality is younger players. They're insanely intelligent with the way that they interpret the space. And I was one that said, if Xavier-Goso would have had that extra year,

if he would have been on the Alex Freeman timeline, probably would have had the opportunity to go to the World Cup, if it was a year earlier. Just because I think he's got, he's got a player profile that's different from a lot of people. So I would explain to fans who have never seen him play.

He's not necessarily Alex Freeman that can play on a right side of a back three. But he's not necessarily a Sergenio desk that's always going to want to stay high, stay wide, and start dancing and doing stepovers. He's kind of in between. But I think what Pablo did a great job is he played him as a wingback. He played him as a winger. And he played him as a pocket 10. And then on a few occasions, he played him as a nine just because his, his pro. file allows him to stretch the game a little bit differently. So depending upon who he's with and what

position Maricio thinks he looks best at, I think it could be kind of anywhere in that internal, like that nine and a half, 10 and a half to kind of a wingback. He would kind of operate on that right-hand side. And it'd be interesting to see to your point, if he's kind of matched up with an Alex Freeman or Frankie Westfield or a Sergenio Dest, what, what is he, what is he? ultimately asked to do attack, defend, or most importantly do both. If it's a 433, is he a part of the front three? I mean, the other piece of this roster is with Pepe going down with an injury, in the forward pool, Damien Downs has six caps.

He's the only person, as they list the roster, that has a single cap in the forward pool. So you're telling me a guy that, you know, played 15 minutes there for Crystal Palace the other day. Like he's got as much of a claim potentially straight down the middle as as anyone in this group. And I think there's some flexibility in all of this that a lot of these guys, um, could find some different opportunities at a couple different positions. And as we said, we don't totally know what formations will look like. So we don't fully know, you know, you know, he's listed as a midfielder. Again, I wouldn't, I don't put no stock in this. But every time a

US release comes out, someone tells me that they put stock in it. So then I feel nervous don't do it. that I put no stock in it. Don't do it. So then I feel like, I feel like I should. Okay. Really quick, are we both on the same page?

Damian Downs, Justin Ellis, like two nines, and then Julian Hall and Zavirigoso, two kind of like tweeners that you could play as a nine. It's almost like what Tim Wea was when he was breaking through

in the national team. Brendan Rogers would play him as a striker sometimes, but you always felt like wing was his best position? I don't love Ellis as the nine for his ceiling. because I think his best attribute is facing goal and creating for people and passing and progressing the game forward. He has shown at Orlando he's good enough as a nine that he can get you through moments for the team. Yeah. I like Hall as a nine because I just think he scraps and he'll chase every

half chance and he finishes inside the six. Like he he's clean. Yeah, he's not he does more good things in one v one that he can play deeper and be really good. But like how many, guys score goals and like genuinely score goals. So I don't, I like having him in there. I think for Ellis, it's a tough one where it's like the stuff I'm talking about him being good at, is he better at it than Gio Raina? Is he better at it than Kevin's all? No, probably not. So for him, it's going to be like finding that position. But like, I think he's a guy who potentially ends up even deeper. And look at like the Open Cup semi final last week, playing out why with O'Heda now and Grisman. Like he progresses his play. He's creating for them. He's the one clipping that early ball in.

And like that's a lot of the stuff he he does well. I'm not sure who Damien Downs is yet at the national team level. I think as you said, the like Cole Campbell stuff of like Downs was one of those guys. He comes to St. Louis. Simon Betcher is not in the national team. And I'm not saying he should be, but Damien Downs isn't. Simon Betcher starts over Damien Downs for their own club. And that's kind of that like perception versus reality.

By the way, Brian White's still banging him in. He's got 16 goals up in Vancouver. But he's not, you know, with this cycle starting from scratch, you know, maybe theoretically he could have had that peppy role as one of the guys, but he doesn't have enough experience in the group

to be the guy at the older, like the Tim Riemish, for sure. Like the older dog. So, yeah. There's a million things we can talk about. We will continue to talk about this camp going forward. For anyone wondering,

notes, Peru, a very old group. They have not reset the cycle coming into this World Cup. Yoshi Yotun at 36 years old is the captain. Pedro Gaiese is going to start on this team. Andre Carrillo is still in this group.

I think the average age, yeah, the average age of their starting line will probably be somewhere between 29 and 31, which will be completely different than the U.S. They, of course, struggled in qualifying. It was a bit of an embarrassment as a Perraano now. For me personally, it was a bit of an embarrassment. And then Chile is a little bit more of a potential shift. A lot young players in this group trying to reset things going. forward. These are two teams kind of out to see right now in terms of their international sort of

reality. It's a little frustrating to me that Colombia is in the U.S. playing friendlies and that's not one the U.S. is playing. Because to me, that's a huge gap. And if you want to play the best teams, that's who you want to play. Yeah, we learn that in D.C. Yeah. Yeah. I don't understand how Mexico plays them in the U.S. doesn't. Yeah. Really quick. Side note, Peru lost to Spain in their last match, but they beat Haiti. Those were the two games going into the World Cup. I just do that for kind of housekeeping. For Chile, they beat Congo 2-1, and they ended up losing to Portugal 2-1, score to lay goal.

There's a red card halfway through that match as well. So what I always say on the international level, you don't know. I mean, we predict and we have favorites, but at the end of the day, referee decisions, starting 11 decisions, player performance decisions. There's so many little factors. But as much as we, I think, for the obvious reasons, focus on Mexico and Canada for our regional rivalry, if you're not careful, both Peru and Chile can smack you in the face, and that'll be a stinging one. Any last note about the U.S. stuff that you're watching for people to think about before we get out of here? Yeah, I would love to see the continuing.

evolution of what we saw in the group stage at the World Cup, specific to Paraguay and Australia. You know, I was down in Monterey calling the World Cup, and I was with all the, my group was the Brits that had done Champions League finals and FAA Cup finals and big Premier League matchups. And being the lone American in the group, you know, I was expecting the banter. And in down in Mexico, sitting in that lobby watching the games, everyone looked at me and they were like, we're really enjoying the way you guys are playing. like you guys are fun to watch and I remember saying to him I was like we used to play like Australia you know like we used to just sit back and try to keep a game in front of them and

hit for moments and play for set pieces and all that stuff and I hope we get back to that where you can the eyeball test tells you that there's intensity and there's urgency and there's just combativeness but then when we have the ball there's control there's patience and we're based on the movement off the ball that you're actually moving the opponent around and you're creating different opportunities. I would love to see kind of like, I don't know if it's ego, but I would love to see that ego because I can tell you, and we heard it from Kavana when he was talking about the other day in one of the interviews like, hey, I thought I could have helped. Yeah. You know, like, that's great. Like that's what I want to see. And I hope that, I guess for all

of us, the sour taste in our mouths after the loss against Belgium, now that we've all recuperated from that, that this team comes out flying. And they set the non-negotiables. This is who we are. This is who we're going to be. And we're going to show you. We're not just going to say it. We'll be back on Monday to recap at all. We'll also have a full MLS slate of games that will be hitting on that show. We'll be back then on Wednesday coming out of the Chile game to sort of break down what we've seen so far to preview the Mexico game. We're going to have a fun show coming up next week because we'll have a sort of an extra show.

We're going to do some random topics on the MLS side of things. So if you have stuff you want us to talk about and want us to hit, feel free to send it over there. And then, of course, we'll have the following week. The show is coming out of Mexico and coming out of the Canada games. These four games, then a window in November, which is Nation's League qualifying. So those are locked in. They will be against most likely Caribbean competition.

and then because of this combined camp, only the two camps this year, and then next year we go into a Nations League semifinal if the U.S. can qualify. Oh, maybe there's a December camp in there. Oh, interesting. Maybe there might be a December camp. Instead of a January camp.

There's some whispers, which would make sense because then you're getting players at the end of their season and they're not having a huge break, so you're not doing the first 10 days. You also have a sprint season, so you have less time. You also have a large amount of players who are based here who could be available. All right. You're going to hear a lot more of Dunny over the next few days because he's going to be on the call for all of these games.

We're very excited for that. And you'll keep hearing a lot from us here at Sockwise. Thank you for joining me. Big shout out to everyone for listening. And we'll talk to you again very, very soon.