SoccerWise - U.S. Soccerwise: USMNT Road To 2030 Presented by Soccer.com

Episode Date: July 16, 2026

The 2026 World Cup is over, but the next cycle is already underway. David Gass, Matt Doyle and Tom Bogert look ahead to the future of the U.S. Men's National Team. The crew discusses the USMNT coaching search, discusses which players are the foundation of the next cycle, identifies the young prospects who could break through over the next four years, and explains why the 2028 Copa América could be the biggest tournament of this generation.00:00 Intro5:35 Mauricio Pochettino's Future11:40 The Hiring Process & What Comes Next15:45 Coaching Candidates for the Next Cycle21:10 Building the 2030 Roster25:09 Gio Reyna & Other Potential Roster Additions30:51 Why Copa América 2028 Is the Next Big Target34:50 How the USMNT Can Get More Games in South America37:49 Who Are the Next Big Young Stars?44:32 Final Thoughts & Soccerwise’s U.S. Soccer Coverage

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Soccer Wise for a big episode, our final U.S. special episode in studio. For the start, of course, our post-World Cup coverage of the U.S. men's national team, which will eventually become the U.S. women's national team as well. I am David Goss with you. Alongside Matt Doyle at a table that we have sat many late nights over the last few weeks drank, many of beers as we commiserated and celebrated over the U.S. men's national team. and now we get to look forward to see, is it going to be a little Spanish red wine for us? Is it going to be a Portuguese vino Verde? Are we just drinking Rocky?

Like, there's a whole vibe coming over the next four years. There is, and I'm enjoying considering all of the above. But it's a familiar place. The cycle begins anew. And we're trying to figure out what comes next for the whole program, really. Yeah. And it's a little bit different this time, of course, a larger World Cup field,

maybe some larger expectations on the U.S. men's national team. So to talk about it, we have the biggest expert in the game, a man chugging away his ice coffees, the 15th of the day. Tommy Scoops coming in remote from us, Tom. How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. Why are you guys talking about Spanish wine and French champagne? This is champagne of beer.

It's Miller Lake, Miller High Life. I thought that was it. What are you guys talking about other stuff for? So to be clear, we talked about Portuguese wine and Spanish wine, and you went to champagne. I thought you're talking about the World Cup semifinal. You just said, no, no, no, no. talking about the 2030 World Cup in Morocco, Spain, and Portugal. Tom, you just heard foreign and you went straight to a bit to get yourself back to the

domestic light beer. Thank you very much. It's all the same. Tom's going to be on the ground covering the World Cup and he's going to be shipping in his own beers in Spain and Portugal at the end of next cycle. There's a lot to talk about and a lot to cover. So to do so, we are going to be bringing in a weekly U.S. soccer show on the Soccer Wise channels to add to our domestic coverage of MLS, NWSL, USL, and everything else in between.

So we're very, very excited about that. We're going to have a staple of hosts with a ton of background experience, including Walker Zimmerman, who's been to a World Cup and captain a team at the Olympics, who's going to sort of give us his insights as we go along. They cycle. We'll have a lot of big time guests as well. So we're going to roll that out coming out of the World Cup. we will be returning to our MLS and full NWSL coverage,

but Jordan and Jill have been crushing it on that side of things. Tom's been breaking news left and right already on the MLS side of things. So soccer-wise, not going anywhere. We're only going to grow. And we are super thankful for Soccer.com for being with us along the ride through this World Cup. It is, of course, your place to score official U.S. national team player jerseys to help you support the U.S. throughout the summer and now coming out of it. You get a free goal club membership with the purchase of any national team.

jersey with the code kickback. So make sure to go plug that in there. And we were looking forward to future endeavors alongside soccer.com. But there's a lot to talk about. The U.S. men's national team currently doesn't have a head coach. We don't know what the core of the team looks like. So we're going to hit the benchmarks of what has to happen for the U.S. and what the next few years look like. We're going to talk about all the big events that could be coming up. We're going to talk about a lot of the young players that we hope push into the national team that we know of. We're going to talk about the current staple of players

and who will be around, who maybe are center pieces going forward. Christian Roldan, guys like that, and who maybe are the pieces like a Christian Pulisic or less important to the team and not really a core of what we're going to build. Now, this conversation is always going to revolve around the head coach.

That's the big, malleable piece for a national team and for the U.S., it's the biggest job in soccer in America. It is sort of the top of the funnel for Americans. So Maricio Pocetino's contract has ended. At the end of the World Cup, we know the reporting was that there was initial conversation with the U.S. Soccer Federation before the World Cup, about an extension to it. It kind of ended there as they went through the World Cup experience up and down on how the performance went and whether or not it would be a no-brainer to extend him, although there does

seem to be a lot of interest from the U.S. men's national team. So let me just give this timeline and we'll talk about who takes over. The U.S. men's national team will step back on the field on September 2,000, 21st for a four-game window from September 21st through October 6th. That's an open window for the U.S. because they don't have to play in Nations League early qualifying. So they can play anyone they want who's available. That'll be the first window for a potential new coach to step into, or as we've seen in

the past, for an interim coach to run things for the U.S. men's national team. After that, in November, November 9th to 17th, there will be Nations League qualifying. It will be home and away, which also doubles as Gold Cup qualifying for 2027. so the U.S. automatically passing into the quarter finals will play one of the top teams that has come out of qualifying home and away across Concaf. There are heavy reports that January camp will return. So that will be, of course, although it's rumored to be pushed up into December with the sprint season coming in MLS. And then the next two big things are going to be 2027 Gold Cup World Cup qualifying. It's back, baby. Conca Camp World Cup qualifying will start late for the U.S. in 2028.

I'll start early for the rest of Concaf in late 2027. And then we will talk about Copa America in 2028 and what that could mean for the U.S. So let's start with the coaching process. Tom, what do you think the next few weeks and months look like? How does the U.S. go about this? So it's very interesting. First of all, when Matt Crocker left and vacated the sporting director role, I think we all assumed that a new sporting director would come

and the order of operations would be sporting director first, then the head coach. J.C. Batson kind of vindicated. a few times a little softly like, hey, we're not sure if we're going to go back to the sporting director route. And I was talking to athletics, USM&T correspondent, Henry Bushnell, who found in another interview, JTBats and Tradeup said, we're not going to hire another sporting director. So that's where the coaching shirt starts. That means Dan Helfrich, who's the C.O, who led the search to hire Steve Trondolo as the Olympic coach, will probably lead that. And as will JT. Batson, as will Cindy Parlo Cohn. There are more people at U.S. soccer that will be involved in this. That's all to say that it won't be a sporting director first. So they can do this coaching decision.

They can have the conversation that they're having with Mauritio Pochino. We're, what, eight days since the U.S. got eliminated and the night that they lost to Belgium, Pochitinotino said, it's not the time to talk about my future right now. It's the time to think. It's the time to rest. It's time to reset and analyze. And then we'll talk with the Federation. If the Federation wants me back, he said they have a very good relationship and conversations will continue.

I believe that to be true. I also believe it to be true that if, you know, Tottenham doesn't have a coaching vacancy, but if Tottenham called, there would be no more conversations, right? So it's an interesting spot. If you're Mauricio Poetino, not the worst thing in the world, hypothetically, if you signed a contract of your $6 million fee or maybe more because you did well at the World Cup and kind of go month by month, window by window. And if Brentford fires their head coach and calls him, maybe he leaves.

So that, I think, is where it's going to start. the Federation and Pochitino need to decide what they want to do, if Potatino would do a new contract that has a buyout in it? Is that something that U.S. Soccer should want to do? These are all big, big questions. And before the World Cup, I would have laughed at this question. Is there any chance of Pochitino comes back? It's like, what's the point of even talking about this?

Right now, I don't think that I'd say that it's likely that he returns, but I wouldn't laugh at the question. So it starts with Pochatino, I think, and then I'm not sure where it goes from there and I'm not sure where the candidates are. What I am pretty sure about is if it's not Pochitino, it'll very likely be an interim in that first window in September, which would suck because that's four games.

And yeah, it's the first window after a World Cup, but like that's significant time on the field. The biggest thing I think for this team at the World Cup, particularly for a coach like Pochitino, who is somebody who until this job was a club head coach, he had this group for a long period of time. There are other kind of best run or maybe the most cohesive, was at the Gold Cup when he had to see him for a long time.

So squandering that opportunity in September where you have a longer window, it's not just a normal two-game six-day window and everybody goes home to have more time together. You don't rush a coaching search just for that. It's just the reality of the timing that if it's not Pocitino, it's very likely going to be an interim. Should it be Pocitino from the U.S. side? No, we should laugh at that, you know, to use Tom's phrasing. They didn't do well.

They had a great group stage. They beat a team they should have been in the round of 32, which is not the same as what happened 24 years ago when the U.S. won an actual knockout round game. And they got their asses kicked, like humiliated against a Belgium team that's not as good as a Belgium team. They played 12 years ago, and not as good as the Netherlands team they played four years ago.

They played that Netherlands team tougher, better as a younger team. then they played against this kind of over the hill and dysfunctional diligent team. Like, I don't think, look, I don't think that Maricio Pocetino did a bad job, but he didn't hit the bar that was set for him. And treating it like it's an unambiguous success and that we should, therefore, continue with him does not make sense to me, especially taking in the context of how often we have gone with the second cycle for our coach and how 100% of the time it's been a failure.

100% of the time it has been a failure. At some point, we need to learn a lesson. Yeah, and the two pieces of that are when it fails, you now have a second coach who doesn't get a full cycle. So now you push them into a second cycle because, well, they didn't get the full cycle, so you never know what it would be like. The other is, and I know you guys have had the same conversations I have

with people around the group and it obviously exploded publicly with the Diego Luna the way it was handled. it didn't feel like a long, it didn't feel like that wasn't the move of a head coach who intends to be around for a second. It didn't feel like he handled the rest of the pool

in a way where he's like, I'm going to come back to you in six months, you're going to be on my September roster, and you're going to help us build for the future. And even if he had, Tom is 100% correct that if he takes this job, his eye is still going to be on Europe because of the Juventus job opens up

or you said Tottenham, if the Spurs job opens up, opens back up for Mauritio Pachitino to make his triumphant return. He's gone. Yeah. And that's instability inherently. And if you're one of the players who your dream is to play at a World Cup for the U.S. Men's National Team, you're going to be eye on that guy skeptically.

You're going to give him side eye the entire time. Yeah. And that is not culture. That is the opposite of the culture you want in this program. When this team needs to rediscover the sort of badass, we might not be the most talented team, but we're going to impose ourselves every single time. If you're playing for a coach makes it feel like that, that's not the team that's going to show up on the field. Yeah. And if the Federation wants to take another step, it's going to be building something that is purposely built

to peak in July 2nd of 2030. And that's hard to do if you don't know that that coach is involved. So let's say in a scenario where Pochitino very quickly says, I live in Majorca, I'm probably not going to be a part of this anymore and U.S. soccer says, yeah, that's the right move. We move on. What is your list look like after that? What's your process? How quickly do, how important is that September window to you in terms of hiring? And then who are you talking? It's important, but it's not make or break. I completely agree with what Tom was saying about the idea that you want to have as many long windows as possible. You want for the new coach or if it is Maricio Pochitino again, you want to give them a long runway. But at the same time, you also want to do your due diligence and hire

the correct coach. And I assume that some of that has already been happening because I don't think Steve Tarandolo was hired as the Olympic coach in a vacuum. I'm assuming that there are a lot of other conversations that were had, whether it be MLS guys like, you know, B.J. Callahan or Mike Yvarez or, hey man, peps available. Maybe make a call. It's probably not going to happen. but you know make that phone call make that phone call to Patrick Vieira if Scoloni or Deschamp are listening to offers after this tournament maybe make a call to them as well you know so Toml was so out of his chair I don't did you imagine going from this France team to this you know could you imagine going from this France team to literally

anything else like to be fair but like yeah hey listen he got a Bentley University hockey jersey so he's American culture built Frozen 4 baby, Frozen 4. I would never expect any of those guys to say yes. Yeah. Right? But nobody expected Marisa Pochitino to say yes. Yeah.

So you make the phone call and you cast a wide net and you get to the point where you're comfortable and confident in your decision and you don't just write a check to the most famous name that you can find. Okay. You mentioned Pep, DeShamp. Some of the other names we sort of bounced around in that sort of not pure. L.S. head coach space, Javier Maserano, who was an L.S. head coached and has coached Argentina's U-23s and, I don't know, seems to be hanging around Miami with nothing to do for a little Rale. Pellegrino Madarazzo keeps getting mentioned. It seems pretty clear to me from his interviews. It's not his passion. Yeah, he's not going to leave Lauer L'Rail for this.

And he's proud of the work he's doing in Europe. That's the thing for me. I think Pellegrino Marrato would have been the absolute top of my list because of giving him the chance to build over his if he didn't take the Real Societadab. And why would he leave right now? He just won a one of the Copa del Rey with them. It's a really good job. Like maybe another cycle. I hope down the road the timing will work out.

But if you're him, why would you leave? BJ Callahan is the MLS option that a lot of people are potentially excited about because of the way this Nashville team plays and his connections to the national team. And I don't want to. Would you leave Nashville right now? Like probably because it's a national team, right? But like, I don't think that's even a thousand percent of shoe in. Well, if you, if you're BJ, you at least probably stay through the season,

the same way Burrhalter did with Columbus before he took over the national team. So there is no, all that is to say, there is no obvious option for me. Like Doug McIntyre of Yahoo Sports, I wasn't sure if he was reporting it or suggesting it. Like, Roberto Martinez's name has been thrown out. Oh, God. Like, please, God, no, right? Like, what about Brian Schmitzer? I don't know if that would be the most inspiring, but like, we love Brian Schmester.

And I would prefer that to like Roberto Martinez or whatever. But there's just no obvious option. And guys, like, if you want to put, not a conspiracy app, but like going like way down the if then rabbit hole to something that's probably unlikely. But if you go way down the if then rabbit hole, well, if the U.S. is talking to Pocetino about extending and if they think he's not going to be here in four years, well, what if you bring Chorundalo in to do the Olympic team? And Pochitino goes through the Copa America and then he gets a job that he wants. And then Toronto's done with the Olympic team, and then he takes over as the senior team. I think that's too many ifs there. But it's a thought that I kicked around in my head after about seven coffees.

I will say it. There is some sense in that, except for the fact that it undercuts the idea of stability and collective and all the things that in decades past had been the U.S. national team's kind of foundational identity and what I think they really need to get back. You would probably do that in the way Mexico did a Gary and Rafa where you would announce it. Right. And you would have Steve Trondel be one of Poach's assistants because with the Olympics, there's not that much work. Like you'd be, you'd have him in camp every time.

So he's around the team and he's helping build the future. Why do you say there's not that much work for the Olympics? There's only so much you can do. There's X amount of camps and then you go and you play. It's the same amount of camps as the full national team. Well, they're not qualifying for it. That's true. But they got, they're going to play games.

But it's also, yeah, I guess you're right. All the camps have to happen in FIFA windows because, yeah, good point. Now, what the women have done is Emma Hayes has built these future camps, which happened, for the most part, in the same market. So that's one of the options would be as well. But Turundle then is not as focused on the national team side. Let me ask you this. On the Callahan-Mikivirus side, for us, we're not U.S. soccer, is it a positive their connection

or is it a negative? because part of the Pochitino hire from Greg Burrhalter was guys were too comfortable. And I worry that Varis and Callahan's connection becomes, oh yeah, Polisic, like, I know that guy. Yeah, I'll just do my thing. I'll just continue to do my thing and it will continue to work. That's a question you can't answer until you or unless you have that data from inside the locker room. I don't think it would bother me given that both of these guys have shown, not just a facility for, but like a real eagerness to integrate new faces and push out old faces

on these club teams. Right. So it's, it seems like that is something that they would not really fall prey to, but you don't know. And that's one of the risks that, you know, whoever ends up doing the hiring, whoever ends up doing that assessment will have to deal with. it's interesting to bring it back to the original part that Tom was talking about via, I guess, what Henry reported, is that it probably will be Dan Helfrich and J.T. Batson and Cindy Parlo Cohn. And it's not going to be the next Ernie Stewart or Matt Crocker. I think I'm okay with that. I honestly think maybe there's been a case of too many cooks in the kitchen the past couple of cycles and winnowing it down some. The decision makers.

And there's a, it really bothers me sometimes. I don't know, Cindy Parlo Cohn, but you see people saying like, act like she's a businesswoman? Yeah. She's won a World Cup. Yeah. She's won a World Cup. Yeah.

She's not Sunil Golani. She won two gold medals with the women's national. She coached the Thorns a dozen years ago. I think it was their first season. They won a title. Won a title. Yeah. And then, you know, so she's done more in soccer than almost anyone else.

Jack Crocker. In American soccer. So the idea that there's no one with real soccer Bonifides making decisions here drives me nuts. Which is a fair reaction to Suno Golati running the Federation out of his back pocket for, you know, a decade and loving Juergen Cleansman and chasing Yergen Cleansman and all of that. But I agree with you completely. Tom, some of the other names we had listed down which feel like they'll get phone calls. Wilfred Nante. Patrick Vieira probably in that space as well.

Um, yesper Sorensen, maybe with the success he's had. Is there anyone that we haven't said that's front of your mind or you have heard, yeah, this is a person who could be in a running. Um, I know Tieri An rewanted the job last cycle. Um, I don't know if that was the Burralter time. It's all getting fuzzy in my head. Um, he's been in the international game. I think he makes more sense as an international manager, but at that point, you might fear chasing

a name rather than, um, you know, a resume of coaching. So I don't know how serious that is or if at all, but this is all underpins. There are no good obvious options or there are no perfect obvious options or a handful of both realistic and, oh, this would be good. This would definitely be an upgrade or this would definitely be a good way to go. Nancy, I'm glad you said that. And Vieira, I think that I know MLS teams when they,

one of the teams that has a coaching vacancy or had a coaching vacancy in MLS. Like those are those are the first two calls, or two of the first calls, like along with Jim Curtin before. he took the awesome job. So I can imagine that that would be similar for the national team. There could be a coach with a distinct style who loves American soccer, who's coached in Europe and in the U.S., but he works in Canada.

So Jesse Marst will be unavailable, I assume, considering he is talking a million times. Has he ever addressed anything about the national team? He actually would like for you to stop talking about it, and he's got about a five-minute quote on that if you'd like to. So those are the obvious coaching names. We'll continue to cover this year at Soccer Y, as it goes along.

You mentioned Steve Tarunzel. We'll talk about the Olympics in a moment. But as I mentioned, that connection for BJ Callahan or Mikey Vars or Maricio Pochitino, positives and negatives. And I think we should talk about what we think as of now, what 2030 could look like and what this pool looks like over the next four years. Tom, you laid this out really well for us at The Athletic, which is a platform that you can read online.

It's sort of a bit of like a newspaper vibe. And Tom is kind enough to let us use. one of his articles there, which you wrote about what the 2030 roster looks like. And I think it's good context for people to think about. Tom, you had like 10 sort of locks from this roster that based off age and quality and importance are probably a part of this team in four years. We don't know everything that will happen. Injuries, other life things come up. One of these players decides to become an NFL kicker. Whatever else happens, we don't know. But you had, I think, the obvious names in there. Polisic, Tyler Adams.

Chris Richards, Weston, McKinney. All of them will be 30 or 31, have been central parts of the national team. Flo Bolligan will be 28, Malik Tillman as well. Alex Freeman, of course, was the young phenom, would be 25. Jedi would be the oldest player on this group at 32 years old, entering that World Cup, Serginio Desk, 29, and then Ricardo Pepey at 27, who will be playing probably in Champions League for a $100 million transfer coming up over the next few months.

So those were your 10 locks with four more possibilities. after that one. So in your mind, Tom, about half this roster is probably moving across the next four years as a central part of this team and if they're able to maintain their peak into the 2030 World Cup. I would assume so.

And honestly, like you talked about the possible holdovers is kind of how I wrote it. And I only listed four names. I could have listed 10, right? Like it's difficult to look at this current World Cup team and say with 100% uncertainty more than like a handful of guys are not going to be in the mix, at least for the next couple years.

So in the possible holdovers, I got to add Matt Freeze, I think he's really, really likely to still be, like, three goalkeepers would have to pass him for him to not be on the roster. And, yeah, players, like, can come on. But, like, Gaga Sonina has not been anywhere near what we thought he might be. Diego coaching, like, he's still a prospect. Like, he's got a loan to a Danish club to play first team soccer for the first time this year. Like, that's not a guarantee.

And there's a lot of other promising players coming through, Julian I. Andrew Rick. Chris Brady. Yeah. Chris Brady, who I didn't list here, which I kind of regret, but there was only 30 spots, right? But like, Freeze. Tim Wea is somebody who I feel really strongly will be on the next roster, but I couldn't put him as like a lock because we just watched him have some of like six of the kind of his worst months, particularly around the national team, which how bad he was in March.

And then he completely fell out like on U.S. up in the last two knockout games. Like Pochitino clearly didn't rate him, didn't quite fit the system. Brendan Aronson, Sebastian Berlter. Like Burralter of this group look the best probably at the World Cup. he's at a position that is so extremely deep. Like Tanner Testman, Johnny Cardoso, Aiden Morris. Two of them were not on the team and one of them was injured because like all three of them were on team,

but two were coaches decision. One was an injury. Like that is a packed, packed place. Like you look at like, I don't want to step on the more exciting part of this is looking at the kids who have not made caps or on the fringes that are ready to break in. Like there is a lot of talent coming at that position. So you look at this team and it's tough to definitely rule out a lot of guys, but particularly in the purpose of the, article I wrote, I didn't just want to write, you know, 23 of the 26 guys that are currently on the

team and then, like, a couple kids. I mean, to Thomas point, it's a pretty young team, right? Max Arfston's only 25 years old. Joe Scally's 23. So the possibility for all of them is that their careers continue at the rate they do. Most of these guys outside of a Matt Turner and, you know, maybe one or two more, Miles Robinson, like, they'll still be in their prime age bracket going to the next World Cup, which is part of this convo is, I don't believe it's a golden generation. I believe it's the start of the pipeline. That means, in my mind, a lot of these guys are going to start getting pushed by the players behind them.

And that was sort of Tom's next grouping of this list. He mentioned the three center mids all were injured. Sorry, can I just interject? Because there's one name I didn't that, like, I left off definitely on purpose. Giorina, like, he's played, he just doesn't play enough. No. He scored a Trevella in the opening game. Like, that was a fun moment.

That wasn't indicative of his performance for the rest of the tournament. I thought it was odd that he came off the bench at the end of, of Bosnia. I believe he did in Seattle. Like, I don't think that that's a player who like sees out games. He had his chance from the start against Turkey. I know that a lot of players didn't particularly show super well, but he didn't either.

And there's nothing that I have seen from this player since basically 2022 that tells me this is a current national team player and somebody that should be in the pool for 2030. I don't think that he's going to go away and never get called. But right now, like, I'm at the point where he's got. to prove like half a season of productive fit and a style that isn't just like his able to move. Matt Turner registered a higher sprint in the game against Turkey. And Giorana did.

That's an issue, man. And like, if that doesn't come back, I just don't see a way in a world in which he's there in 2030. To Tom's point, I think you get a couple of like, oh, I can be the coach who fixes it. I can figure it out. And in Giorana's career, if it doesn't change fast, I think in two years, people, are going to stop saying that. Yeah, it might even take the under on that, but the talent is still there and the courage is still there.

And that's the thing that stuck out to me about Giorina against Belgium that we didn't see from enough players is like that first 15 minutes of the second half. He was moving and never sprinting, to be clear, but he was moving to get on the ball and do so in tough places. And that was one time in that game where the U.S. felt like they'd were taking initiative. Now the question is, can other players coming through, Jack McGlynn, or Diego Luna, or Nico Choucourish, packed in it, well, Paxon-Aherinson, can they do that same thing, but actually occasionally sprint and play more than 500 club minutes a year. It's a shame. I still

think G.R. Raina is the most talented player we've ever produced. He just got completely injured by the age of 19, and we've never seen him be able to deliver on that talent. Let's talk about some of the other players on the back end of this because they're some of these future plays. So Tom mentioned the three center mids, Cordoso, Testament, and Morris. They'll all be 28 years old at the next World Cup. The guy's just on the outside. Patrick Oshamong picks up an injury. He'd be 29 at the next World Cup.

So if he can come back and be himself and continue to progress at the speed at which he progressed coming out of college, there's a really good chance he can be in this pool. And then the two interesting ones on here were Diego Luna, who just missed out on this team. and we all expected to be a part of this World Cup, and then Nookai Banks, which is going to be a part of a bigger dual national conversation of the U.S. trying to bring some of these players in. Banks is obviously at the front of that with where he's at in his career,

but you assume that will be a drive with a lot of players over the next four years. Banks is a single most interesting player on this list because the U.S. weak point is centerback. And for the next four years, we are going to go through a constant cycle of, oh, is this guy yet? Is this guy? Neil Pierre is back with the Philadelphia Union. Neil Pierre starts games in MLS by the middle of August.

You're going to be a torrent of call him in for September. And it's not just going to be him. There's going to be a half dozen others. David Goss pointing at himself because David Goss, surprisingly nimble as an undersized center back. No, I'm a Neil Pierre guy. That's what I was pointing at him. pointing at. I'm going to be yelling.

Colum Martinez. That's David Goss. Yeah. The portrait of Long Island. For sure. Yeah, yeah. Me and Joe Scala. We play very similar game. I was going to say Carlos Puyol, but you know. Yeah. Those are all options that connect me to. And to that point, Tom put together the last nine spots where these future plays.

We've got a list of young players to talk about on top of these. Some of them are the names that we were pushing for at this World Cup. There is only one centerback on this list, which is Josh Weiner. And that's not a fault on you, Tom, like, that is the big question mark. Now, part of that is it's hard to project centerbacks because a lot of people don't play young centerbacks. And so it's hard for them to push into teams. But even in MLS, the ones that get played are the ones who have gotten bought. It's Lucas Harrington.

It's Malanda. It's not an 18-year-old or 17-year-old American who it's like, yeah, let's give this guy a chance. The youngest domestic centerback who starts in MLS, I think, is Reed Roberts for the San Jose. earthquakes. He's really good. Yeah. He could end up being a Matt Beasler type, I think. And if you look at who he's playing for, he's playing for Bruce Arena, who developed Eddie Pope and Omar Gonzalez. And Henry Kessler. Well, Henry Kessler had a moment before her injuries completely crushed him, you know? So there are, there is a chance that somebody will come out of the blue in MLS.

Is this Dante Polvara erasure? I mean, it could be. But the hope, the real hope is that Josh Winder gets healthy and finds a place where he's actually going to play. That guy is like Stuart Hawkins, Christopher Cups, Ramiz Hamuda, who just went overseas. Those guys will be able to develop and be the next Alex Freeman. And oh, by the way, Chris Richards and Alex Freeman need to stay healthy and continue to develop. And I think the world of both those players, if we have those two guys and say two of the list I just mentioned going into 2028, then we're in pretty good shape. And yes, I'm thinking about 2028, not 2030, because I honestly feel like Copa America is a bigger opportunity for the U.S. than the World Cup is.

I really think so. What do you mean by that? The World Cup, you are always going to be at the mercy of the draw in a way that you kind of aren't at Copa America. You are mostly going to be playing teams until you get to Brazil or Argentina. you are mostly going to be playing teams if you're the U.S. that you should be confident against. And look, man, Copa America is not the World Cup in terms of capturing general audience attention, but in terms of capturing the intention of soccer fans, specifically Latino soccer fans in the United States. It is a huge opportunity.

It is gigantic. Do you feel the same if the U.S.? So the reports are that the 2028 Copa America will be the next tournament. there are reports that Ecuador is the only conmable side that had really put in to host it, which would be a necessity unless the other reports coming out of Brazil and then now internationally, which are that the actual agreement around 2024, Copa America, which of course was hosted here, was that the U.S. had actually been given both 24 and 28, and it had not been announced yet.

Do you feel the same if the U.S. hosts or doesn't host it? I think either way you have to look at it as like this is our opportunity. to take a step forward as a program because they didn't at this World Cup. They had, you know, one game where they played beautiful soccer and dominated a good Paraguay team. They had three games in which they played tough in one game in which they were soft as shit. And that is the lingering memory for most people about this U.S. national team. And they have now 23 months to get everything together and get into this giant tournament, which is what it is, one of the, you know, one of the three best tournaments in the world and make everyone realize that, no, we can't take a step forward collectively.

And the book is not closed on this particular generation. World Cup, Cop America League's Cup, top three? Yeah, that's correct. First of its kind competition with... Bring back the Desert Diamond Cup preseason MLS tournament. Was it Interleague? Yeah. The one?

Yeah, Charlie Drosoph, legend. Super League. Yeah, Super League. There is a little bit of luck, by the way. Like Canada getting second place at 2024 and playing Venezuela, where Uruguay got first place and played Brazil. So there's a little drawluck of, is Canada going to a Cop America semifinal if they don't get Venezuela? I don't know. But to your point, they played Argentina twice in a competitive environment.

It sets the stage for where you stand. I talked with someone recently. By the way, if you are not connected to your local American outlaws chapter, you should. for 20 years, they've been building up fandom. There's watch parties all everywhere. I talked to someone about the atmosphere in Seattle around the World Cup game. And they're saying the march was 25,000 people through downtown.

And Jeremiah O'Shaan, one of our friends at Soundard Hart said, during the march, he was in the stadium, and the stadium was already filled. So it feels like a bulk of the 25,000 were people who just wanted to be around the game in downtown. And he said, I never thought I would see anything like this. And this is someone who said, like, the Australia game was similar to MLS Cup in 2019,

because Seattle is a big atmosphere for soccer. Copa America, if it's in the U.S., coming off this World Cup, could feel like that, where are you playing Brazil in Miami? Are you playing Argentina and New York City? That's your rallying point for that. These fans that have grown and been connected. I mean, they're saying it was a million people in downtown Seattle around that game. Like, that's your chance to redo that because.

you're not hosting another World Cup for probably eight years after Saudi Arabia is done or whatever with the rate this thing's expanding. But that is that opportunity that exists. Now, I do have a hairbrained idea. I would like to link Concaf Nations League into Conma Bowl because I think one of the sad parts about Copa America is it will probably be in the U.S. And so the U.S. won't get the chance to go and play in some of these atmospheres. So my dream scenario here, and we'll talk about this more in the future because we've got some other stuff we have to hit here. You end up with eight quarterfifes. finalists in Conquay-Cath Nations League. So you have qualifying to come through and then the U.S.-Mexico

gets automatic buys Canada now into that round. What if you went eight teams that make it there, and then they go and play the top eight teams in Commonwealth, whether it's home and away, whether it's the top half-seeds go and the bottom half-seeds travel, and then you find a neutral site to play some sort of final of some sort where it's just, you know, a semi-final and a final or just a final, but that feels like a place where Conma Bowl can still get connected to Concaf. And one of the reasons Nation League exists is because UEFA created one and no one can find friendlies. So now everyone's got to find games to play. So I think you still keep a bulk of Concaf nations involved, which gets you the voting for Victor Montagliani. Conma Bowl can still

make their money by coming to the U.S. or coming to North America for some of these games. You can play that semi-final and final in the U.S., which gets them there without losing Copa America but also if you're the U.S. and Mexico and Canada, away games in Paraguay, away games in Ecuador. So that's my pitch, and I'm sticking by it. So for people who are listening to this and maybe not fully well-versed on international saga, the reason Dave and the rest of us keep saying games in the U.S., games in the U.S., it's not because we are xenophobic, you know, solipsistic Americans, it's because the U.S. is just a giant piggy. bank to every federation in all of world soccer.

And so they go out of their way to try to schedule games here because you've just seen what happened during the World Cup. Everybody comes here. Everybody spends money. You make more money here than anyone else. So when Dave says you could play the semifinals and the final in the U.S., what he means is commie ball would want to play the semifinal and final in the U.S. Because they would make more money if the game was in Arlington.

or Los Angeles than they would if it was in Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires. And the proof you need for that is the Argentine FAA has a full-time office in Miami. They are trying to cash out on the U.S. But on the flip side, we believe the opening games of the 2030 World Cup will happen

in Paraguay, Uruguay, and Argentina. You need experience there, and the U.S. needs to be challenged in a way, environments. And with the expansion of the World Cup, Concaf qualifying will probably become, quote, unquote, easier because the U.S. probably won't play at Mexico. They may not play at Costa Rica. They may not have to play even at Canada because you have so many teams coming in that it'll get spread out and opened up a little bit more. So that's my pitch on that side of things. Let's close

out talking about the future. So we kind of skipped over this a little bit. For Tom, the final 10 on his roster, where a lot of the big names we've talked about over the last few weeks coming into the World Cup, Zavir Gozo, Adri Mametti, Julian Hall, and then you added in some of the young prospects that have a lot of people excited. Kevin Sullivan, Peyton Miller, Mati Albert, Rokash Pukhstas. I landed that one. He did it. Julian Istone and Diego Cochin.

Tom, how did you land on these names as the guys? So there are like a few for me, like Gozo should be on in the September roster. He just absolutely should be on merit. I think Audrey Remedy and Julian Hall are there as well, but you have to drop a number of players to make room. I kind of get it. hope that those three guys are absolutely on this roster. Cabin Sullivan, we've known about him for a long,

long time, and he's going to play even more than he has this season with Philly. He's gotten a lot of run, particularly after Bradley Carnell was, was let go, or as the pressure was really building on him. But Ryan Richter is the second team manager. He's the interim coach. They're going to play kids even more than they have in previous for that reason. Kevin Sullivan's going to play a lot. He might be ready for a senior debut.

If he's not, you know it's going to come at some point over the next. a year or two. And I think for me, Adjibometti is the player I'm most excited about because we just don't have this profile. Doyle, you've compared him to Sergio Bousquet's, and you're not somebody who does that lightly in any way. Like, genuinely, that is, that, like, you're not just any time that there's a good ball playing defensive midfieler,

you're not like, oh, Sergio Biscuettes, right? Like, it's not like a lazy comp, like you said that, very measured and very, very carefully. And I think he's got such a bright future. And I think that his brain, like his physicals are still getting there, but his brain, like, I think you could drop him in anywhere. And sink or swim, I think he could at least tread water. So he's somebody I'm extremely excited about seeing what the seam,

seeing him progress. So I use those four guys because I'm most certain about them. And then like, you're kind of throwing darts at this point, right? This time, two years ago, Alex Freeman was not on anybody's radar, let alone four years ago, right? So the other names that I'm going to throw, like, some of them get hit some of them might get past and some of them might just stall out but Peyton miller is really exciting matty albert i had a scout tell me a ga cup right before he left

for dormant of just like oh like he's in the same class as cabin solvin we just know everybody else knows who cabin is they just don't know who matty is like at that point he was still at the galaxy's academy pook shots like i feel like he's kind of on on the cusp and if he was gonna like he's been holding out every hope that he's going to represent the u.s could have switched already like there are um is he Croatian i believe Yeah. Whatever's dual national is, he could have pledged allegiance to them. He wants to give it every chance for the United States.

I stone it and coaching. One of them I really, really hope is going to hit in terms of goalkeepers for the future winder. I could have put Neil Pierre on this. I'm a huge fan of his. I hope that he gets some run with the union. I know the union want to keep him, but he, again, what's talking about, if Bradley Cornell wasn't the head coach, he would not have gone on loan. It's as simple as that. So now he's back.

and the union are trying to convince him to stay. And it looks pretty good right now. But there's a lot of teams that like him in Europe. And there are just so many guys here that I'm really excited about. And we're going to be wrong about four of them, right? Like if we looked back at these kind of lists four years ago, there were probably some names that really didn't age well and looks pretty funny in hindsight. But we're going to do this all the time.

This is wishcasting. This is educated analysis, right? And you never know exactly who's going to pop, who's not. And what players are going to be late blooms or what players that are developing on their own, but we just don't really know that well about him. Pukskos, by the way, plays in Croatia. He's Lithuanian. So that's the national team he would play for,

which is less exciting than playing for Croatia. Tom mentioned a lot of the names that we had in here. I think there's names people should be excited about. I think, to Tom's point about throwing darts, I just think there are more darts in the, I don't know, Rizzo. Dirt quiver. Yeah, whatever it is, than ever before.

That's the thing we've created. That's the excitement that fans should have. is there are 35 plus fully professional academies that are helping develop players to be the best professional players they can be, pushing them into first teams, whatever division that's in, and potentially then helping them move along in their careers.

And that doesn't include the fact that there will be players coming out of non-pro academies that are either ready to go at 18 or 17 or 16 or go to college and then developing college and can still end up being a Tim Parker who plays a decade plus in... Or Tim Riem.

Yeah, who did I say? Tim Parker. As I said it, I was like, it feels wrong, but I don't know where to go. It's like, oh, interesting name to pull. The Patrick Ojimang's other world will always exist.

The advantage of what has happened is there was a two team for him to go into and accelerate through into a first team and be sold, where maybe 15 years ago, Patrick Ojemong is still kind of floating around, playing men's league or trying to find a spot or there's not enough professional

spots. And we have a list of players now who are already playing that Audrey Mimetti sort of leads. But guys like Snyder Brunel and Taha Habe and Darren Yappy, Justin Ellis, who are already getting pro minutes at a really young age and all could potentially profile as future national team guys. Yeah. There is a lot of indications that the floor is going to get raised. What we are looking for now are the players that raise the seal. And it was supposed to be Christian Pulisic, and he didn't quite manage it this World Cup. It was supposed to be Gio Raina, and for the reasons we listed, it hasn't been him. The question is, can it be Xavier Gozo?

Can it be Kevin Sullivan? Or is it somebody who's just off the radar right now, and it turns out that they're the one who could be the guy who is a best player on a quarterfinal team? So what we're all looking for over the next four years, hopefully what we find. Tom spent a lot of time talking about Philadelphia for a reason, one of the best youth producers. like Yakupovich, the best attacking player I've seen, especially at that center forward position since Ricardo Pepi. Wow. Does more as still a big finisher.

And I think he could be a special. He weighs about 125 pounds sucking wet right now. Doyle, let's go back and find pictures of you at 15 and 16 years old. Let's see the physical intimidation. Oh, one more potential ceiling razor. Tom, go call Tyler Heaps and find out what Manu do is citizenship status is like. because if we could get this guy into the national team pool, I would be feeling pretty good about the centerback situation.

Well, we have a lot to continue to cover, and we're going to be doing it every single week here with this new U.S. focus show on soccer-wise. There is a U-17 World Cup every single year for the next four years happening in Qatar. There's U-20 World Cup qualifying that's occurring this fall, and that will be a biannual tournament still going forward. Gold Cup in 2027, nation.

League coming up, the potential for Copa America. And then as we mentioned, Steve Durundlow has been hired to coach the U.S. at the 2028 Olympics with the U.S. automatically qualifies for as hosts. And you are roughly three results away from winning at least a bronze medal going into that tournament. That could be a really big moment for the U.S. men's side. And of course, we're going to continue to cover things on the women's side. Qualifying in November, World Cup draw in December, a World Cup in Brazil next summer

that I think could break viewership records. in the U.S., as well as attendance records across Brazil, and they will go into the 2028 Olympics as the reaming gold medalist. And we're going to get you up to speed and coverage of all of that across soccer-wise every single day and every single week. So thank you to you to you, Doyle, for being here. Thank you to Tom. Big shout out to Derek for joining us on this one,

and we'll talk to you all again very, very soon. Thought that was really good. I got to run for an interview anyway. Appreciate you guys. It's kind of set the table for... Yeah, pretty cleanly. I thought that was really good, boys. Appreciate it.

See you later. Have you eaten? No, I need to get food. Me too. You got dim some place real quick?