SoccerWise - US Soccerwise | USMNT’s Camp Review & USWNT’s Spain Test

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

The USMNT is entering a new cycle, with a new generation already making its mark. Brian Dunseth and David Gass break down what we learned from the USMNT’s most recent camp and what is revealed about the team’s depth and player pool. Then Kacey White helps preview the USWNT’s big showdown with Spain, as the reigning Olympic champions battle the current World Cup champions.0:00 Intro1:43 Inside USMNT Camp9:52 What We Learned This Window19:03 Cavan Sullivan & The New Kids27:47 The Players Who Stood Out33:27 Captain Tyler Adams35:19 Taking Stock of the USWNT Roster42:12 Emma Hayes’ Selection Puzzle52:11 What Makes Spain So Good57:47 Predictions for USWNT vs. SpainFor the sharpest coverage of American soccer, we’ve got you covered:https://linktr.ee/soccerwisehq

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the U.S. Soccer Wise Show. This is the official show for Socorize. We'll recover all things U.S.S. soccer. And this day is the reason we have this show and it exists. We are in the middle of an unprecedented window in which you have the U.S. Men's National Team resetting the cycle, leaning things on the shoulders of Kevin Sullivan, Audrey Mehmeti, Julian Hall, and all these young players, winning four games in a row and then flipping straight into the U.S. Women's National Team facing off against the reigning World Cup. champions in a one-verse-two matchup and we're going to hit all of it today so i'm going to be joined by brian dunceph he is off the plane 30 minutes ago coming in here to chat about what he saw in camp across the four games for the u.s men's national team we'll talk about the vibe the culture what he saw from the young players as they integrated in some of the older players who showed and didn't show in spots and sort of what the feeling is coming out of this camp and then we're going to be joined by one of our newer members here at Soccerwise, but someone who has been with us for a while for some big events in Casey White. You hear her across any MLS games you're listening to NWSL,

elite college soccer. She coached as a U.S. Women's Youth National Team coach, played with the U.S. Women's National Team, and she's going to help us get ready for the Spain game coming up. So we're going to go into who are the players who have a lot to earn here, who are the players who our eyes are on coming into this matchup. What makes Spain so good and what we expect to see out on the field. So let's dig into things with Dunny right now. It's been quite the experience. And I think the one thing I've learned probably most was when we were anticipating this

was the idea, okay, it minimizes the travel going back and forth and it thinks about the players. And hey, you're not going to have to split up, maybe come in September right after the league starts and then go back and then October and then go back and then November and then go back. This is a great idea. And then you realize that maybe the coach is. don't necessarily like the idea of four games over the course of two weeks. Living with these players full time.

Well, I think, yeah. Well, I did talk to Chris Richards and he says it kind of like mimics a gold cup-ish type of opportunity, especially for the new kids to truly understand like the non-negotiables on and off the field. But I did find it interesting like when you talk to Jesse Marsh and you think about it from the Canadian Federation that it's a little bit different. And they only went with three games instead of four. So I could see a world in which it's three games and then still have the bigger travel as opposed to kind of just being stuck in one region. But overall, I would say that the four games had definitely afforded Marisa Poititino and his coaching staff to get a good handle on these young players to understand what they're capable of. And I think most importantly, everybody got an opportunity to step on the field.

And the last one was Cole Campbell after having an early knock in camp. He got a few minutes in that second half. So the kids are all right. Some obviously excelled a little bit at a little bit more at a higher level than others. But I think the good thing is that regardless of the conversation surrounding any of these guys, that we've got these next couple of cycles when you talk about the 17s, you talk about the 20s, you talk about the potential group that Steve Tarundolo has thinking about from an availability for that pool heading into the Olympics in Los Angeles. we've got a player pool that seems to be aggressively deep in a lot of different positions.

And I think that's a really, really good thing off the backside of that World Cup. It's funny because you talk about the opportunity across the four games. It has felt like since the moment Pachitino took the job that like there wasn't enough time because he was late in the cycle and without the Copa America with no qualifying, there wasn't competitive games. And it felt like every moment was like, we can't waste 10 minutes on the wrong player at the wrong time. And then you flip around to, now you've got a full cycle. You had four games in this window, you know, and just me and Tom and Doyle in moments

and we had Walker and Van Nu, it was like, yeah, why not give a couple minutes here? Why not give an opportunity here? And it just, that hasn't felt possible in, you know, four plus years until all the way back to Burrhalter having already qualified and having a couple friendlies. Yeah, and I think on top of that, you know, one of the, I would say, early challenges for Mariso and his coaching staff is, you know, when you're dealing with a national, team, you can't move players in and out, right? You can't sell players. You can't buy players. So you're kind of at the, I don't want to say at the mercy, but you can understand the idea.

Like, you're kind of at the mercy of who you have available. And I think there was a learning process of, you know, thinking bigger picture. Here you have this mixture of Argentine, Spanish, Jack Robinson's obviously English. And then you, you, this idea of when the national team calls, you drop everything. Like, the domestic football is no longer important. It doesn't matter at what level, the pride and the crest and the chest and all that. So I think there was moments throughout kind of that early stage where how do they establish their rhythm, their control, their philosophy, their ideas, and then mix and match with a group of players that were coming off a pretty successful Qatar World Cup, even though it ended from the score line, if you go back and watch the game against Netherlands, not necessarily, I don't know, fair is the right word, but it was a lot closer than people in terms of style of play and competition.

then in this group, I mean, then you're talking about leaders. You're talking about experience players. And then you've got to allow them the opportunity to find the Christian roll downs because, you know, the Seattle Sounders absolutely, you know, takes Inter Miami apart in a tournament format. So there's all these weird things, but I agree with you. Now that it's a new cycle, it's different than Dave Serrican kind of, you know, giving, you know, Oprah Winfrey throwing out cars for free, you know, here's a cap, here's a cap. now you're looking at players that are well-established. And I would say, side note, and I think I tried to convey this in one of the games,

I think one of the positives that we're seeing right now is because of the failure in 2017-18 of qualifying for Russia. You know, we as fans were like, burn it all down, start from scratch. Well, we've seen like four or five different iterations of U.S. soccer since then. But I think between U.S. soccer, major league soccer, the owners and the continued evolution of academies, MLS Next Pro, and then Major League Soccer in particular, you're looking at a lot of these kids that, from a foundation standpoint, have the financial infrastructure that has been created that they can

take advantage of to then go out and be the Matisse Albert's from L.A. Galaxy to Brousia Dortmund, et cetera, et cetera. The Cole Campbell's from Atlanta United over to Dortmund with a pit stop in Iceland, all these different. But I think we're seeing kind of the fruits of the labor of, hey, let's take it down to the struts, let's kind of rebuild from scratch. And I think that's where we're going to see this next group or next two cycles of players that are really benefiting off this last eight years of let's reimagine what we need to be as opposed to, man, that sucked. Let's not have that happen again. Yeah, we, you know, everyone has their frustrations and has had them with the national team. I think to your point, a lot of the conversations have been a little bit too

high level often of like well who's the coach of the national team it's a failure and it's like no the issue is there aren't five players who can technically get out of tight spaces often enough that you can roll into the national team that could get you through qualifying even if the coach is bad and that's the part where like the financial infrastructure is neil pierre has watched tape and been graded out and has trained with pros and has learned what is right and what is right and what is wrong and has had a pathway to get professional in a way that Tim Ream never had. Right? Tim Ream and Tim Ream figured it out because Tim Ream's an elite athlete.

And elite athletes will get there. And this is one of my things always. I'll say it over and over. College soccer is not going away because there are late bloomers. There are guys who won't find whatever. But now the other side of it is the elite prospects have a pathway to be brought through. And we had residency and that was one ability to do it. But you're not going to hit out a high enough rate that every kid's going to make.

and only having 30 options at residency wasn't enough of a pool to pull from. Well, and if we do this weird kind of juxtaposition, the challenges, so we use Jesse Marsh and Canada, right? Yeah. How many times we heard- Chu Kuo, who's a youth player that he's developing through the national team. And he, you know, the pressures then applied on Robin Frazier to get more minutes for Toronto FC.

Because the idea is how do we minimize finding Mouzbembito at 23, in Colorado, how do we, how do we get him at 1617? What about Tejohn Buchanan? Another perfect example when he goes to the revs after was a Syracuse. I think it's Syracuse. Yeah, yeah. We have too much MLS after Dark knowledge. It's the Patrice Bernier cycle.

It's the Canadians all going to Syracuse. Yeah, it's brilliant. So it's fascinating. And I think right now it'll be really interesting in that exact, I guess, The details of that example, now the challenges for, you know, Jesse Marsh and that Canadian infrastructure versus the amount of money we're seeing with U.S. soccer. And now it falls to these players to continue their careers. And what I've said over and over is, you know, Kevin's special.

Kevin's unique. And we'll talk about him in a moment. And it's Kevin versus Policic and all of these things. But the point shouldn't be it's Mehmeti and whoever. It should be who's next. And, you know, it should be Luca Moisa in a year. to pushing Mehmeti, who's pushing Weston McKinney. And like, that should be the process of what we go through.

And my hope is that this is the beginning of that. But give us an idea sort of of what the vibe was like for around these young players. You've been around these camps for a while. And this was obviously a new group. What did it feel like around the group? And sort of what did you see socially sort of stick out? Yeah. I would say that it is as normal as it's ever been.

I mean, and we do this thing. And it really kind of frustrated me. trying to be like a Greg Burrhalter, like buddy, apologist, however, you know, but it was, it was always interesting to me that the word vibes was like weaponized against Greg and the coaching staff at that time. Because what I see is the camaraderie. And now you've got kind of the big brother, little brother, which is kind of like even Chris talking about, well, now Alex Freeman isn't a little brother anymore. You know, he's 22, but he's got 25 consecutive matches. So he's like one of the old dogs.

Right. But then, you know, Tyler and Chris are looking at these youngsters and saying, you know, I was joking with him. I was like, you know, Tyler, when you came off the field with at the MLS All-Star game in Atlanta against Yu-Ve, you know, you're going against Emory Chan. You're going against Sammy Kadir. And I interview you, you're like 16. And I was like, how, like these are huge names, like Yu-Ve, the black and white stripes.

Like that's, and he was like, yeah, it's just another game. I was like, what do you mean? It's just another game. But that was his mentality. These kids are the same way. Like, here you are looking at these moments. And Julian Hall and Cabin talking about Mexico or even last night. I know Canada is like a different conversation.

But oddly, the players, which caught me a little bit by surprise, they look at Canada as a real rival right now because of the last, I mean, through qualifying and Herdman and winning Convocableness. Yeah. There's been, yeah, there's been more of like an authentic rivalry that's been created because of the urgency that Jesse is created and the physicality and all those things, which is fun. But these guys, like, it was interesting to watch. And I think I do this because, you know, being, I think, what was I, 19 when Steve Sampson would call me in, I'd be like

everybody's unwanted little brother just hanging around. I was so young that it was like, it was like six years different for me to catch up to the next group. Yeah. And, you know, bees and and Landon went through that whole process and watching the kind of the evolution of the national teams, when these guys look at the young guys, they're little brothers, but you still have competition, you still have ego,

you still have like the challenges of like setting the tone. And if you're going to come and compete, these are the non-negotiables. This is how you properly train. This is how you properly carry yourself. And I think these kids all realize that it's not just on the field, it's kind of off the field, that everybody's paying attention to every minute detail

that these guys are, whether who you sit with, who you warm up with, who you juggle with, where the treatment tables look like, you know, all of these things. But it was fun to hear, and I can't remember everybody's songs, but it was fun to hear as they went through their kind of initiation process,

who like Gozo, I guess, had the voice of an angel, and he started first, and then Kevin was going for like 70s and 80s music. And all, so it was fun to see kind of, their personalities kind of come out as they had conversations with us. But highly competitive. The training sessions, Tony Jimenez, was just absolutely throttling these goalkeepers to get them prepared. And I think we saw that with Cochin and Shwake, with both getting shutouts against Mexico and Canada, respectively.

We have a little bit better of an understanding kind of what that competition starts to look like. And then for everybody else in front, it was a good rotation, good pairings, good matchups. And I think it was a really, really positive camp when you can, what was it, 12, 12 goals scored in a couple of clean sheets over four matches. The boxes were checked on like Rafe Marquez. So four games, two clean sheets, 12 goals, 13 debut tons across the two weeks. And yes, Mexico went 02 and 2 in the same window, if that was something you were curious about. And that was, you know, we talked about before the window. what did they want to do?

And we had two sides of this, which was test guys, experienced guys, see who's there, and also win. Keep momentum. Keep fans engaged. To do both is a pretty good two weeks to come off for this group. I'd say on the soccer side of things,

what stood out to you the most? That even though mistakes were being made, and all obviously correctable mistakes from a coaching staff's perspective, that they still figured out how to win. And I think this is, I always, I know I could probably say it too much, but I say it during broadcasts,

like when the game's not going in your way, how do you manufacture momentum? And like in that second half against Canada, it was really difficult to get to like the basics of possession and playing through the lines. And, you know, Canada made it really difficult. But when you win one-nil, there's a lot of things that could have been better.

But I'm just thinking, thinking about like between the ears like how these guys like let's be combative let's make it difficult like that f you mentality like i love that geo was throwing his weight around and so was tillman and then the kids are getting involved so i think they found that right balance of like i call it duncethery like the dark arts and the manipulation of the game which i absolutely adore um and at the same time you could see their talent level and and you can see their goal scoring ability and you could see the man management of Maricio and his coaching staff saying, all right, you're here based on your potential and what you're doing with your domestic clubs. Now, we're really, really impressed

with what you've done. Some obviously have done a little bit more than others. But now, functionally, you get yourself into a really interesting space where these guys have all departed camp now. And what do these next three weeks look like ahead of Nation's League quarterfinals against Haiti away and Haiti at home. Yeah, the nice part about the Canada game is sometimes you have to get in the mud. But if you're going to have to get in the mud, you might as well come out with a victory. And I think when you go through and you look at Peru and maybe how the Lappodula goal takes you off kilter and how they were covered within you then look at Chile with the challenge they gave you,

then the energy Mexico comes out with. and the intensity of that match and the hype and all of that. And then you go into the Canada game, which ends up being a completely different style. You do get to see these young players tested across different experiences, which is the whole point of why you put this together. Exactly, exactly. You couldn't have said it better.

And I think, again, what I liked about the last, well, the first two games, I think you've got a Peruvian side that wants to reestablish their identity, right? And the Lapa goal was fantastic. Drifts off the back shoulder, gets inside Peyton Miller. You know, how much more could the defenders do with closing down space? And then obviously getting touched tight, goal side, all the stuff. You should be aware that you've got a grizzled old veteran hunting in the box.

The Chile game was as dynamic and physical as one would expect. And side note, I got to see Bam Bam Zah Marano for the first time since the Olympic bronze medal match. I'll show you something real quick. So I got his jersey right there. Nice. And as he walked out of the bathroom, I was walking out, like walking in the bathroom.

I was like, Bam, bam. And he goes, see. And I got to get my broken ass Spanish. And I, I pulled up the picture of him and I hugging after the game

and like us playing against each other. And he was like, Capitano de Los Angeles. I see, see, see. And we were talking and he was asking me whatever. And so it was great to see him, you know,

fast forward all of these years. But as. combative, manipulative, and I thought the perfect team to prepare you from Mexico in going into that game. And as you said, the first, up until the goal, I thought Mexico was fantastic with the pressure and the difficulty that they were creating for the U.S. and, you know, a couple of Tala Rangel making those mistakes after being one of the best goalkeepers, four clean sheets, five matches, was just outrageously absurd to predict. anything like that.

And again, I think each game provided its own challenge, but a good benchmark. And I guess we kind of wait to try to understand the way that the coaching staff kind of took the details along with the performance between the white lines. Let's talk Kevin, because that's the story. Youngest goal score in USM&T history, scores against Mexico, the celebration. We've talked a lot about him. Sorry, you had a week. Not even.

You had like five days as the guy. He should have hacked him. training to try and keep it once he had scored. What did you make of seeing him at this level over the course of the two weeks? I'll start with off the field. I thought he was incredibly mature and measured. And I don't know how much of an influence that is Michael Cameron and the coaching staff because the ask is different, right?

Like when you're asked to do a Lexi show, when you're asked to do Philly Press, it's more promotion individual within the collective. He got to the national team. and all of these kids are incredibly mature. I mean, I got a 17-year-old, and I was imagining him sitting there and answering these questions. Julian Hall just like hosting on the desk for 10 minutes?

Yeah, it definitely would. My kid would have been a slightly more awkward. His training habits, you can just see this kid loves the game. Like, he's so excited. He's just got this youthful exuberance where he's like, he bounces. Like, he kind of just bounces around.

found. Obviously, a great, like, soccer, footballing family, you know, the tree and the lineage and all that stuff. I've got, I've got, you know, three boys, and I look at my little guy, Luca, who's eight years old, he's a raccoon. He just loves the play, loves to kick the crap out of everybody. And it just reminds me when I watch Cabin, like, all of those things of, like, the youngest boy in the family is just fight. Blutted by everyone. He's not worried about getting knocked by some six-foot dude from another country. Like, he's, he's already chipped teeth. you know, fighting with his brother. His work rate off the ball,

I think that, I don't want to say it separates him, but I was incredibly impressed with his tactical understanding of when to support, when to anchor, when to flare. He closes down space really, really quickly. I love the angles because he comes across either the plant foot or the front leg of anyone who's trying to play through, and he kind of comes across you and he puts skin on people constantly. And I think, obviously, when he gets into tight spaces,

you know, giveeth and taketh, he got nutmegged and then he nutmegs as well. Like, he's, and that's why I, I get really nervous in games like that with young guys, because I don't want to over-hype them. I think we've all been guilty of, you know, the last conversation about the goal, and generation and all that stuff. We've got some great players.

But I think there's a couple guys that maybe we start adjusting. And again, this comes back to Marisa and his coaching staff, giving a little, taking a little, you know, here's the full national team. We're going to send you back to the Olympic team. We want to see your attitude. We want to see can you be a leader amongst your playing. Like all of those things, I can see a lot of those things, even down to the under 20s, maybe even down in the 17s, like who knows, what there's going to be an expectation.

of these guys, I think they want to see, I don't say this maliciously. I think there's a constant challenge to see what these kids are made of, to truly understand, because everyone can say the right thing. Everyone could put the best foot forward. But I think in like moments of stress, this coaching staff wants to see how players adapt. They want to see how they react to things. But Kevin, I mean, what else can you say? The kid, he's a special, with the way that he sees the game. And then you add that work rate and the physicality to him, it really does help him separate himself from some of the other guys in his age group

that people have been talking about. So I came out of the first game saying, we came into the camp saying he had earned his spot here. This isn't just a prospect. He's MLS player of the month. He's outside of Messi, he's been the best stacking player since the World Cup. I came out of the first game saying the other piece with him is all the stuff you just talked

about, which is even if he's not popping, he's not hurting his team because he does so many things well. Let's word it this way. In November, you call up 26 players for a competitive game. Is he already one of the 26th that deserves to be in there? What I would say is that he and Julian Hall have obviously done enough in terms of, and I use the word player profile, because oftentimes we're talking about, you know, technical ability or athleticism or speed or strength.

and all these things. Both of those players, if we're talking about the attacking phase of play, have, in my opinion, done enough that I would not be surprised if they've been called in. I also think Brooklyn Raines really had a great four matches in terms of his showing. Matisse Albert, while didn't have the game that he wanted to have, because it was his first start against Canada, as an impact sub off the bench, he's shown some really interesting quality. So I guess I would table it like that, but again, Christian Polistic, Weston McKinney, Flo, Pepe, Wea, Turner's, and Dejas, Haji, Scali, Ream, Aronson, Arfston, Arfston, those are the guys that were on the World Cup roster.

Now, a couple of those guys are not going to be on these rosters going forward, or at least we're assuming they're not. It's a change of the guard. It's a new cycle. But listen, if you can have a couple of teenagers in the attacking phase of play, that aren't going to be overawed by the moment, why wouldn't you want to, I guess, include them in your top group? And I use their quotes because I'm not sure how to properly navigate the description top group. Brooklyn Raines, what's that out to you? What excite you? So clean.

He's so clean. His range of athleticism is similar to Tyler. like if you look at their profiles they're very similar he covers so much ground he's clean like he's constantly checking shoulders he's different than they're just two different type of players

but I love the way he kind of like he's silky he's got that little shoulder drop and he leans and he kind of like very few times that he get caught in possession very few times that people catch him with a cleat because the way that he's playing through the lines

I like his press there was a moment last night in Minnesota where he gets the ball there's closing down I think it's either Schwanier or Saliba he like spins and pivots away on the left-hand side and then bursts through like multiple players and then ends up playing the ball wide

but like to have that have someone that's so comfortable in like the simple possession but then has that like juice to kind of play through and like I'm not going to play backwards I'm going to turn and take you on. I'm going to beat you, and then I'm going to open up this back line

and put them on their heels. I really, really liked watching him. I think he's incredibly intelligent with the way that he sees the game. And I was just saying to you earlier, and I said this last night, I'm really unapologetic about it. I think this kid, this guy's the future.

And he's taken advantage of the move from, and I know Benny Olson and company probably didn't want to let him go. similar to when they got Jack McGlynn and Philly didn't want to let him go. But Mitrovich has done a great job with him and he's got the U20 U23 boys together, you know, playing really well.

Yeah, my one, there's an element of Raines' game right now that's a little bit Musa-esque where then he either, he's so safe sometimes though in the final pass that it's not as dangerous as it could be because it's either one touch longer. And I think part of that is if you play with Carlos Heel, it's like, well, if you can, just get him in the attacking third.

Play the ball. Yeah. And I thought he was like that against, so he got his first start against Chile, where there was moments where he's in the final third and he's like, where's Raina? Like you could kind of sense it where it's like, you're in space. You could do what you want to do. But in all of that, he never loses possession.

He gets himself into those areas and he's already turned, accelerated up field and changed the point of attack, which all of that is positive. I would say there's no question you develop there, except we're now six years into Musa and maybe it doesn't happen for everyone.

So that's one piece that I would leave out there. Let's go to those other guys, the guys who have been here before that you've seen for years now. Did anyone change your perception? Did anyone stand out? Is there anything big you take away from the camp? Just named that side.

Gio, four starts. And I think I said this last night, and I used the comparison of Christian and his move to A.C. Milan. I don't think we shouldn't, we shouldn't be a, afraid to put together that Christian's body and the success that he had obviously up until the fall last year when he was dealing with those injuries, that he had his strongest kind of starting

run of play at A.C. Milan because they believed in him. He was playing games and he wasn't sitting on the bench, freezing his tail off in England. He wasn't going and warming up and all the explosiveness and then coming on for 10 minutes and then doing fitness runs afterwards. Like he was getting game rhythm. Gio said it to someone last night. post-match, and I apologize because I can't remember. But he was saying, I trust my body now. He had those four or five starts for Straussborg. The fact that he started these four games,

I mean, the fact that he started the second game against Chile surprised us. And then we're like, well, he can't start against Mexico. And then he's in the starting 11, has, I mean, just flying all over the place. He looks, he just looks strong. Like, he looks physically strong. Yeah. And he doesn't look gassed. He doesn't look winded.

He's got that kind of pogba giraffe-y kind of like glide to him. And I mean that with the utmost respect. Yeah. Big dudes gliding. They go fast. And I loved the way from a leadership perspective that he was like thrown his weight around. You know, picking up a yellow card, pick it up a nasty challenge, like going through someone's calves. Like I really, really liked Gio.

I think Tillman, this run that he's been in since the Gold Cup. You can just see he's, it's not that he's matured, but I think he's taken on another role to where if certain guys are missing, you still have that creative flair and that pocket play. He tries, he tries stuff, almost cursed, he tries stuff. And you can see him put his head up like, ah, but he wants to hit a zinger with the outside of the right. He wants to kid a cut ball, you know, the quick combination for Ellis's goal to reward Freeman. He tries stuff.

Those two, I don't know if I was out of pocket. when I was talking about Alex Freeman that I said something similar, you know, like we have a generational left back in Jedi Robinson, which we've had for last couple of cycles. It feels like we're completely settled on Alex Freeman being the right side of that back four. And then Chris is just a man amongst men across that back line. I thought trusty was solid. I thought Campbell was solid. But Chris, Chris is just that elevated number one, no matter what. And he holds everybody accountable. And he barks at everybody in front of them. And even his reeds off the back shoulder last night, first time with Campbell,

there's a couple moments where he's, you know, playing left side centerback position that I loved playing. And he was, he was covering up and he was cleaning up and he was clearing. And so, yeah, those are the guys that, like, really popped for me from the older guys. Always intrigued about Eunice. You know, I was using the analogy with the guys and Melissa about how. how awkward that first conversation must have been, like the Ricardo Pepe, Greg Burrholder, like, hey,

like those type of things. Right. But he's always got that Cheshire cat, like, smile, like that great personality. We were talking about Amarim, we were talking about Luca Modrich, we're talking about the run that he's on right now. But I still have questions about the,

I guess, the pathway of being a starter in this group. Yeah. Because he's insanely talented, but I just feel like the pool of competition he's one of those guys that might find himself in a numbers crunch if pushing the show. And it feels like Pach is telling you that and that he's trying him in other spots. Like the guy's going to play 90 minutes for Milan at center mid, but he's going to play on the wing for you. Well, that's the can he do it.

Because if he can do it, now he's in the camp because I can trust him in two spots. And maybe there's minutes here. Maybe there's minutes there. Yeah. But I don't know. Side note, sorry to cut you off. the first game for Pochitino, he started his wingback against Panama, scored that goal down in Austin. He was telling us that at Valencia, he was always on the right-hand side operating.

So he's like, just to be clear for everyone out there that doesn't know the backstory before he got to A.C. Milan, he could play in multiple positions. Yeah. But it seems like Amarim really values that partnership with Luca Mojurch right now, which maybe looks a little bit different for the way that Marisa Pochitino is looking at his individual skill set with that U.S. men's national team group. It's going to be fascinating to watch it going forward because for exciting as all this is, Tener Testament's not a part of this group. John Luke Cabusio is not a part of this group. But there's still also more young players that could break in. And I think what we seen the evidence of over the last 12 months is there are also young players who can step into roles and earn spots, whether it's Jude Terry, whether it's Johnny Shore, whatever it is.

Is it in San Jose? Yep. And there are guys who are still going to continue to not get to. the door and then you come to competitive games where well weston mckinney and christian polistic are still going to be a part of that camp so it's going to be fascinating to see we're going to dig into the depth charts and what it all looks like over the next few weeks um on this show we're going to kind of try and remap where things look like at its healthiest at its best we're going to learn a lot in the haiti series hopefully if the u.s does well we'll learn even more in the nation's league um next year but

it was a fun camp let me leave you on this one tyler adams was named captain yep to close out the camp. It's been a weird one where it's like, you always know Tyler Adams is who he is, but he's actually the one who was never captain in this rotating captain group. What do you make of that decision in that moment? Yeah, big statement. It's not that it caught me off guard, but it did a little bit that the captain would be named with all the players that you just spoke about, not being here for whatever reason. I only thought that Chris Richards would be the other option. but listen Tyler I think the Gold Cup

in particular afforded Tyler a role that he can step into an outright leadership conversation there's so much respect across the board for all these players and I think that Tyler has always been a captain without wearing the captain's arm band

because that's the type of leader by the way I love his facial expressions he just gives that don't dude don't look at me bro like the Silibe thing the other day like Schwannier was MF and him and he's like, go, go away, go away peasant, like that type of thing.

I just love the way he gives it. But I'm not surprised. I thought the only other one in that camp would have been Chris Richards, but I think that Tyler continues to show whether he's speaking in front of the media or he's training habits, his game performance. He's very, very worthy of that captain's armband.

And I think it's a big statement to the group in particular that Mariso and his coaching staff rewarded him during this camp with the captain's arm band. Well, there's a lot to be excited about coming out of this camp. It was awesome listening to you on the calls. We are excited to continue to do this show. So I'm going to let you go now.

We'll talk a little women's national team with Casey, and we'll do this again soon. Appreciate you, my man. Well, thanks so much once again to Brian Duncef for joining us, one of our favorites. And now a chance to chat with Casey White about what we expect to see with the U.S. women's national team. One note, when we recorded this,

we knew Naomi Germa was out of the team, and Kate Telfi, had replaced her. We didn't yet know that Jalen Howell would be replacing Sam Coffee. We didn't talk that much about Sam Coffee because she's such a known. If she's healthy, she's in the team, she's locked in. I'd expect Claire Hutton to step into a lot of the minutes that Sam Coffee will leave, but Jordan has said it on our shows. Jalen Howell in her mind is up for midfielder of the year and should be the favorite in NWSL. So it's good to see once again a player who not like Kate Delphava hasn't been in the U-23 groups, hasn't really been developed,

but has earned her time week in week out in club play. It's performing at a really high level. Not a like-for-like switch for coffee, more of arranging eight, where Sam Coffee is more of a true six, who can, of course, pass and has range because she's a world-class player. But that's where I think Claire Hutton probably fills a chunk of those minutes. And then is there a way to realign things with Lili Johannes in there to maybe get some more minutes? but we're going to talk even more about this U.S. Women's National Team right now.

Casey, thanks for being back. Of course. I'm so glad to be back on. I feel like we were together throughout the whole Olympic experience, so we're good luck at this point for the U.S. Women's National Team. We really are. I'm glad you noticed that, by the way. I was going to bring it up myself if you didn't say it. I need all the luck I can get sometimes, because sometimes we cover these things and then it all goes down the drain

and you're like, what did I do wrong? Am I a fault in all of this? Now we are getting ready for the U.S. and Spain. It is a double header friendly, so they'll play on Saturday, October 10th, coming up at 2.30 p.m. Eastern time at Audi Field. And then they will rematch in Philly at Subaru Park, 7 p.m. Eastern Time on Tuesday night, the 13th. So four days in between the two games. It's the first time these two countries have faced off in four years.

And it is, of course, the reigning gold medalist against the reigning World Cup champions. And I actually thought back to two years ago when we were doing the Olympic show, it was, we thought, a beeline to U.S. Spain. It was going to be if the U.S. could play well enough, that was going to be the final. Then, of course, Brazil upsets Spain and it throws it off. And Emma had said going into it, like, I just want to beat the Spanish. And she never got the opportunity. And we've been waiting ever since to see this matchup. It's really been a buildup since then, to your point, the expectation was that was definitely going to happen.

but now the opportunity is here. And I think everyone is so excited to see what this will look like and how these two teams will match up in 2026. It is one verse two in the FIFA rankings, the two reigning champs in these two competitions. One has qualified for the World Cup already in Spain, the U.S. World Cup qualification coming up in November. Just one game is all needed, one victory in the opening to get there.

And we assume these are two teams that are going to be factors. in the World Cup coming up. So we're going to talk all about this camp, what we need to see, what we want to do. We talked a little bit about the roster when it came out with Jordan last week when it finally launched. And then, of course,

we will have all your reaction coming up following the game as well. But I think, just general, Casey, what has you most excited heading into this camp? There's two things that really have me excited. I always get pumped about first-time call-ups. When players, and there's probably a nostalgia piece for me and that and just remembering

my first time to get called in and what that felt like. I also think there's so much joy and motivation and having good performances and those being rewarded by being able to represent your country for the first time. So I do love seeing that with the Trinity buyers coming in, Pietra Torden coming in, players like that, Silkowitz is not is uncapped, not our first call up, just little moments like that that I think are really great for players and really healthy for the environment. So that's one piece. The other piece is how many attacking threats are on this roster? And if I'm not wrong, I believe it's eight forwards. And that's not including Mao Swanson as a full word. So I'm sitting here going, wow, this could go a million different directions from an attacking standpoint.

And if I'm Spain, I'm looking at that knowing there are a lot of threats coming their way. Yeah, there is, it feels like this embarrassment of riches, which is from triple espresso to next. there's been injuries, there's been rotation. And to your point on the first time call-ups, a huge part of what Emmett Hayes has done is build the depth of the pool. And she has rotated players out and she has tested players. She's tested pairing. She's given opportunities.

She's used the U-23 camps, the U-20s as well, to sort of grow the pool. And it is kind of fascinating to me that there are, you know, three or four players that really have no experience at this point in the cycle that are getting opportunities. but at the same time, you couldn't not bring a Pietro Tourdin with the way she's been playing. And then Trinity Byers are a fascinating game because she's been great, but it's a really short amount of time

that she's worked her way into this roster. She has always had so much extensive youth national team experiences and has had the ability to score goals. And with any forward, all of us always think, well, can they do it at the next level? Then they get there, they do it. Can they do it at the next level? Then they get there and they do it.

That's what Trinity Byers is doing. and coming off an injury, I think it's caught everyone a bit by surprise, not because of her quality. Everyone's always known it's there. It's how quickly that has come together. And the way I look at that is how strong mentally someone has to be. So if I'm Emma Hayes, if I'm the staff, I only not see just not see her physical ability and her ability to score goals,

but the ability to take on pressure and to have that confidence, even with not as many games under her belt. So what do we think? for Emma and her staff, how do they think about what they want to accomplish over the course of what is basically going to be a week with this team and these two games? Like, how do they come into this camp, do you think, in terms of deciding what the goals are, what the focus is, and then how you go about getting there? Well, I think it always has to be said. The goal is to win both games. That never goes away. It's not necessarily unspoken, but it's an expectation.

So that is there. However, as a manager, you have to have to have to. have different types of vision as well. Balance of exposure of players plus the team to the number one team in the world is a big part of this camp. The other part is how do you gain confidence with also exposure for new players, for new partnerships, for new units, whatever it may be how you look at it. That balance is something that I would think is at the forefront of Emma Hayes' mind. So that sort of leaves this huge question that I have, which is,

Do you have a best 11 that you have to see together in it? This is going to be the largest test you can create for them before you get to the World Cup. Or is there this mix in terms of confidence of, okay, what is the stability we need? Do we need T. Leonard Davidson on the field if Sam Coffey's not? Which means they don't play together or is four days enough to have players play both games across the two? I don't think it's exactly critical that you have to play your best 11. I think at some point you need to be close to having that group on the field, whether that's a second half, whether that's the first half, whatever that may be.

I think it's a little bit too simple to just go, here's our best 11. Because honestly, Emma has some ideas, I'm sure, of what that might be. But still, what is the best 11? I look at this roster, and I'm certainly not on the inside, so I can't say definitively who it is. but I think that's a good problem to have. Now is kind of a starting point of just starting to narrow that. And I like this expansion as that narrowing process starts. Yeah, I mean, even in Central Midfield, right, in theory, Sam Coffee, Lindsay, Heaps, Roosevelt.

That's the starters. I think the average person would just say that. Correct. But has Liliah Honest played her way in? Has Claire Hutton played her way in? And then it goes down to now matchup, which is Spain is one of the rare teams that might have more of the ball than the U.S. I think you bring up a really good point. especially in the central corridor in the center of the field, that it really can be about tactical

matchups in a game versus Spain where they like to control the ball in possession. They're extremely patient. Their movement is fluid. The half space between the back line and the either double pivot or single pivot is critical. So who are the players in there that play the best together to screen passes, to step out of their center back roles as well and be able to control that space? not forgetting that we have the ability to control the attack as well. It's just in a different manner than Spain. So instead of just a best 11, I think it's more about, okay, this is a tactical challenge. What would we do in the World Cup against a team like this and who are the players that would be called upon from a player profile perspective? So does anyone stand out to you as someone who has a huge opportunity to earn trust, to earn minutes, earn opportunity in these two games?

I think there's some question marks along the back line of just who are the players there that are going to be able to perform against the best in the world. So I think the center back position is a really open position in some ways. You've got a Tierna Davidson, Tara Rudd, a Kennedy Wesley players like that. Obviously, GERMA being out is a big one. So I think there's opportunities to figure that out. I am very excited to see Ashley Sanchez. I think everyone is. and I do believe this is a very big opportunity for her.

She is proving at the NWSL level to do some unreal things. She's done it at the national team level as well. It's just been a little while. So I think the big question mark there is, can that transfer immediately back into the national team environment? So I'm interested to see that. Yeah, it's really fascinating just because so much of what North Carolina builds leads to Ashley Sanchez.

It's not going to be the case with the U.S. At the same time, she is in such good form 1 v.1 that you can't really help. Because if you help and it's what we think it is and Rodman's out there on the other side, and Roosevelt or Mal Swanson's coming out of midfield or Jenny Byers is playing at center forward. So there should be opportunity for Ashley Sanchez, but it has to look different than North Carolina. And it will, to your point, there are so many attacking threats. It's not going to just funnel through Ashley Sanchez.

she is the player now saying, I belong here and having to prove that piece. And so much of this part of the year and cycle leading into a World Cup is about form. And she's in wonderful form. But how does that fit in into this structure and what can she do? If she can show up and execute in critical moments, even if the play isn't always going through her or draw a lot of attention to bring other players into the game because of her confidence level right now, then I think she makes a nice case to continue to be involved. Yeah, I think about, I mean, she's a different player, but I just think about when out of the

Olympics, when Alyssa Thompson started to really find her feet, and it was, Alyssa Thompson wasn't ready to be the centerpiece of an attack. But like, when she was the third option in the attack, now she has one v. one chances. And I think back to the goals in the she believes cup against Argentina and Colombia and all those moments where it's like, oh, the third attack are coming off the wing is an elite player and will have enough opportunities if she can read the play correctly of when to come inside, when to connect, where it should look or she should get the moments where we have seen her shine over the last few weeks with North Carolina. There's a few things with roster inclusion that come into my mind when you're looking at a World Cup or an Olympics,

whatever it may be. One of those is the ability to adapt tactically and still be able to have impact depending on your position. So the adaptation at a high, high tactical level is a critical component. The other piece is what do you do coming off the bench as well? So if we're talking about an Ashley Sanchez, you know, if we're talking about any other player that's trying to make their way onto the roster, who can handle that mentally and still be that player? Not every player is as good off the bench as they are starting. It's a different challenge. And so I do think in moments like this against Spain, if there are players that don't start, but they come in and there's a huge impact, there's a massive. There's a massive

role there at a world level. We talked about this a little bit when the roster was released, but we should come back to it now with the comments that Emma's made over the last week or so. The big surprise was Jane Shaw not making this roster, Ali Sentonor as well. And I think it's really interesting the way Emma talks about the U23 group. And she basically said, like, well, we have a 50 player pool coming in this window where I think for a lot of us externally, it's, there's a senior team and everyone. one else is sort of on these other tracks. And it kind of made it sound like for Emma, it's like, Jaden's in the group because this is the group.

Like the group is larger than what you're considering. And as well, I think sort of what you mentioned, which is if Jaden Shaw had come to this camp, she's a back. She's like, she's probably a sub. Now she's going to get tested. Can you be the star of a team? Can you be a leader in that group? And I think it's really fascinating the way Emma is both vocalizing and handling the ability

to have this U23 group alongside the senior team? The more interconnected the U23s are with the senior team, the better, and not just in perception, in actuality, in reality. And nothing demonstrates that more than Kate Del Fava getting the call up after Germa couldn't make it. She was going to the U23s. She gets called in. It's rewarding longevity in the league.

It's rewarding performance. That injects confidence. It injects motivation in players. Now, the opposite effect with Jaden Shaw being in the under 23s is happening. And I think in part, not because of necessarily her performance, where she sits on the depth chart, Emma's also going to look at other players that would be somewhat around that point in the depth chart and give that opportunity to. I would assume Jaden Shaw not happy and she shouldn't be. Any time we weren't called into a camp, not happy.

But what do you do with that? The ups and downs of the national team, the ups and downs of being pro. is just how it is. And so I think she'll do well with that. I would be shocked if she's not in the next opportunity. But it was interesting to see that with what Emma brought in for this camp. And this now helps that there is this training center because the senior team, the U23s, they'll train in Atlanta for a little while.

It seems like the U.S. is bringing the Dominican Republic to play at a U23 level against this group. I would assume going forward all camps, this is where the youth camps are going to be held in conjunction with the senior camps. And it sounds like there can even be crossover in training and the ability for coaches to be at both or players to come in and out of both. And you mentioned it with Kate Del Fava. As the time of this recording, Naomi Germa brought off the roster because of injuries,

unfortunately. And Kate Del Fava earns the opportunity to step up to the senior national team. She had been this overage player at the last two U-23 camps as a way to sort of stabilize the group, bring in some leadership. She's been phenomenal in end of. She's in the defender of the year conversation. Utah is in that conversation as well, but you mentioned this sort of like a thin roster group.

Do we think Kate Delphava gets a chance in this camp to get on the field against Spain? I think it's going to be hard to be able to do that. Just with the way that coaches normally manage centerback pairings is you want them to play for a significant amount of time in a game with only two games. I think it's rare for a centerback. that maybe is a late add to the roster to go in. But you never know. And I think that's something that we'll see what happens.

But for Kate Del Fava, I think it's more about rewarding performance. And not only the message that sends to her, what it sends to the rest of the players around the league, and the competition it creates within the roster, there are other players that want to be here. And so you're trying to maximize performance of your roster as well. So there's a lot of reasons that you do things like this to bring someone in that's new. So I think everyone knows, but we'll set the stage a little. The U.S. is playing in Spain, who are the best team in the world. So, 2023 World Cup winners, 2024 Olympics, lost to Germany and the bronze medal game after losing to Brazil, as I mentioned, in the semifinal,

and then lost the Euros in penalty kicks against England. In 2026, they clinch World Cup qualifying in six games. They went 5-0-1. The one loss was in London at Wembley, 1-0 to England. they then beat England 4-0 at home in June. They have outscored their opponents 21 to 2 in World Cup qualifying. What makes this team so good? And sort of what is the step up that's about to happen for the U.S. players in terms of quality of opponent and experience?

I'm chuckling because I'm like, what doesn't make this team good? There's so many positive qualities about Spain. And I think the biggest one, and it permeates their entire program, men's or women's side, is controlling the game with the ball. And the patience that they demonstrate where opposition can't really get close to them when they're in clear possession, the way they occupy space, the comfortability of players individually on the ball than to play within the game model that they put out there.

So that ability to control possession is a critical piece. And it's honestly their best defensive. move as well. It's just keep the ball. We saw it this summer on the men's side in that World Cup final against Argentina that limiting chances of opposition not only helps you from that perspective. It also fatigues your opponent. So that's one piece that I think really set Spain apart on top of individually brilliant players, players that can change games in the attacking third. There is a DNA to the way people play the game in Spain. And as you said, it comes from men's side, women's side. It goes through multiple clubs. This is a club, this is a group that is heavily affected by

Barcelona. Barcelona has been the, I mean, they beat Real Madrid 7-0 this weekend coming into this game missing a ton of pieces. They also had a bit of a fire sale in the summer. But even when players don't come through that academy, there is a style in Spain. And it's one of the things that allows the national team to be so good so quickly sometimes with players who maybe haven't been a part of it because you come in and you already know what the deal is. And so many players fit that style. And then there's some outliers. We talked with Jordan.

We're going to have a show coming out. Well, now I'm lost some time. We have a show coming out next week where we'll talk about dream transfer moves. And we talked about Padolayalo, who while she fits the style, can then break the style, right? Her ability to stretch the field, take players 1V1, Vicki Lopez as well. This feels like the next evolution in this Spain group of we're going to hold the ball. we're going to do what we need to do, but then we also have individual match winners all over the field. And that's what's really nice about what Spain is putting together with the players you mentioned,

with a Vicki Lopez, the verticality that that can bring, that automatically your opposition has to respect. And the fine margins at the international level really are dictated by your ability, not only to be able to attack or defend in different ways, but also the decision-making of when to do it. So with the verticality that Spain does possess as an opposing defender or an opposing unit, you're thinking, well, they could go here. So I might back off for a half yard, two yards to respect that.

And that's all Bon Moti needs. And I know she's out. But players like that that are in the midfield, they need a half yard of space to be able to get a shot off. And so then if you stay, now you can go play a vertical ball. And so that type of decision making and unpredictability in the attack is, something that Spain is continuing to layer into what they do. And we saw this summer on the men's side where the World Cup being in the U.S. You saw teams wanted to start to experience the travel and the other challenges.

For Spain, that's what they're looking for. They want to be challenged. They want to have to fly across the Atlantic. I mean, it's not to Brazil, but it's closer than it is playing against, you know, Ukraine and England in Europe. And they want to be challenged at the highest level as well. And I think you've got to give credit to both. both these programs, but especially the U.S. where they've scheduled Japan, Brazil on the road,

and now Spain. Outside of Germany and England, right, those are the games that you can get best to mimic what's going to experience in a World Cup quarter, semi, or final. Why avoid it? If the World Cup goes the way you want it to, you're going to play these teams anyways. Right. One, maybe two, maybe all three. That is going to happen. And so you want to find out things about your team now. And Emma Hayes didn't shy away from that when she was speaking about the Brazil game. She goes, I'd rather than see this now than have this for the first time next year. And I think this is another opportunity for the U.S. and for Spain in that regard.

If you look at Spain, also, I think playing in the United States could expose them. And they probably know that. And what I mean by that is the U.S. can possess the ball. They can move the ball around, have good ball circulation, but they can counterattack with the best of them. they can play vertical. And with Spain being such a possession-oriented team, your back-pressing, your counter-pressing has to be on point. Your rest defense behind the ball has to be structured in a way

that needs to go against the best in the world running at you. And the United States, we know the attacking threats that that roster has is some of the best in the world. All right, let's talk rosters. Let's talk lineups. We're going to pretend. We'll make it up. You've been closer to doing this than I ever have,

and most people ever will. But let's talk a little bit about what we expect to see on Saturday to start all of this out. On the U.S. side of things, let's sort of say what we think happens. What would you put together as the starting back five goalkeeper and defenders that you'd want to see? I'm going to get a little crazy here with this. No, tell us Joyce and goal. I would like to see Patterson on one side, Giselle Thompson on the other. and then I would go with a Tara Rudd, Kennedy Wesley.

And I think there's obviously a case for Tierna Davidson there. I just want to see something a little bit different. So I'm going to go with that in the centerback. Okay. I love the idea of having Patterson and Thompson on the field. Giselle Thompson for me is like locked down starter at five positions. So it's wherever your roster falls, it's like, oh, then you'll just put Giselle Thompson at that next place.

Love that. Patterson obviously gives you verticality from that right back spot. I assume your thought is be aggressive, play on the front foot with a grouping like that. I am. I am thinking that. And I'm thinking not just adjusting to opposition as well. Like what needs to be seen to determine who are the players that are going to go to that next step. And I think you've got to try some different things at times.

So we'll see. I think a lot of people would expect to see Emily Fox at right back. So I'm going to go with that. I'm going to go with Rudd. and Davidson. And then I'm going to go with Giselle Thompson at left back because I like the idea of

Tierna Davidson getting to release Giselle Thompson into the attacking play. I went on a rant a few weeks ago. I think she's the best passer on the planet in Davidson. And the idea that Giselle Thompson can come inside, can go outside, can rotate, can obviously play high is really,

really exciting. So then are we both going? I have to say, I think Emily Fox is a lock. So I am going a little bit more with like, what's that name? next thing they need to see. So I, but I like your back line.

I like that. Are we playing a 4333? Yeah, let's do it. But you got to go midfield first now. Okay. So for midfield, we have to see Sam Coffee.

There's like no question. It's been too long. I will probably go simple and go Sam Coffee, Lindsay keeps Rose LaVelle. Okay. It's to me the most likely we would see when everyone's healthy. And I mean, coffee's ahead of Hutton 1V1 in what

they do heaps is the captain of the team and roosevelt's playing as good as soccer as we literally have ever seen her play right now i think that's a great midfield it makes complete sense and i think it's a midfield we're going to be seeing and a little bit of time ahead now um so i agree with you on that the one thing i'm going to throw in there is because mal swanson was listed as a midfielder could she go into a 10 role with two really experienced players behind her in coffee in heaps i agree with you I am a huge Rose Lavelle fan. Rose Lavelle is who she is. But obviously I'm getting a little spicy with this.

I'm just thinking, what else can we see? Now, these might be substitution patterns, but I would like to see her in there. So I guess talk to me a little about what you expect for her as a player in there. Is it deep runs out of midfield? Is it becoming a second forward? Like we've seen her play across the front three, but not as much in that deeper spot.

I think first and foremost, Mal Swanson is someone who plays in the front three. Like that is something that I definitely think, you know, we've already seen. We will see again. But with the roster makeup here, does that put her in a little bit of a different role? Mallory Swanson is so incredibly impactful when she's running at players. And she draws so much attention. We've seen it in the NWSL in the past as well where no matter where she lines up,

she can drop into those central areas or even the little bit of the pockets in the half space to the side. And defenders don't know whether to step with her or to not. And when that happens, she just absolutely destroys people stepping out of a back line. So to have three forwards plus a Mousswanson running at you or plus a Rose Lavelle, like in counter-attacking transition, I just think would be very dangerous. Okay. Let's finish with a front three.

If you have Mow Swanson midfield, so can't be part of that front three. So where do you end up with those? I've got Rodman, Wilson, and Alyssa Thompson across my front three. So that's a big reason why I don't have Mousin Blumpton in there right now as she's continuing to come back in. But I'm just thinking about those four players and I'm going, whoa, this could be a lot of fun to watch. I think there's not a grouping that would come out of this nine or ten players that wouldn't be exciting. Emma Sears feels like the least likely to start, although I guess buyers and Tordon are. newer to the group, but like, I'm looking at this group, I wouldn't be shocked if Michelle Cooper started.

I wouldn't either. I wouldn't either. And I think that's a testament to what Emma Hayes has done during her entire tenure is if you're going to be brought in, you can play. Like, it's not just handouts. It's coming in with a real opportunity. And she shows a lot of trust in her players. I still think it's early enough. I mentioned it earlier that we don't have to see a starting 11 necessarily. We may, but we don't have to. And so to your point, that wouldn't surprise me to see someone like Michelle come in as well. Yeah, she got a start in one of the two Brazil games. And she's got starts against Japan.

She's gotten starts in the She Believes Cup. She is very clinical 1V1, can stretch the field, but also obviously is naturally a center forward. And so can come inside and score goals. Elizabeth Thompson scored last week against Arsenal, hasn't put up as many stats over the last few games. there. So my assumption is Rodman and Wilson for sure. And then it's the battle between those two for that last spot unless it ends up being Mal Swanson. The other side of that becomes if it's Alyssa Thompson, does she play on the left? Does Rodman play on the left? If it's Michelle Cooper, does she play on the right? Does Rodman play on the left? I don't know that Rodman cares,

but that could be a small wrinkle to it as well. And I think that could also be something that they figure out when they see what Spain comes out with when that roster or the starting 11 is released. Like there's this these are matchups that little margins, little nuances matter. And yes, it is about your team, but there might be a switch. So even if we see one off the right, one off the left, 10, 15 minutes into the game, if there's something recognized in a counterattacking moment or in a 1B1 isolation, I wouldn't be surprised to see that be interchangeable. This is going to be as much fun as we can have.

I also love that one's at Rowdy and the other one is like a cold October night in Philadelphia, which just smells like playoffs to me. Oh, yeah. College soccer. Like, that's College Cup vibes to me. 100%. It's USA Spain. Like, this is what we've waited for.

Emma said when she left the Chelsea job and was literally walking off the dais for the last time as Chelsea manager, she's like, well, I'm going to have to effing beat Spain at some point and hasn't had the chance to. So I assume we're going to get some good quotes as well. What do you think we end up seeing over the two games? give me a prediction. I would assume this will be a split series. I think we'll get a win. I think they could get a win as well.

So I think it'll be split. And that's not just because the last few have been as well. I do think when you have one and two in the world and you're trying different things, it can go in any direction. I love what you say about Emma Hayes as well. Like I just feel like she's like such a player too. Like she's like, let's go. I can't wait to have an opportunity to beat Spain.

And so I'm sure she is just as pumped as everyone else going into it. It's going to be amazing. I'm going to go one draw and a U.S. win. I think a 2-1 win and a 1-1 draw. No matter what, we're going to have all your coverage here across all our soccer-wise channels. We have our SW-W-WO account on Instagram. We'll be doing a ton of coverage. We'll be doing player grades, reaction videos.

And then, of course, we'll have more shows to break it all down as we go along. Casey, I appreciate you being here. Excited to have you back in the future. if anyone is paying attention, you'll hear her voice at some point over the next four days in your life, whether it's college or MLS or whatever else in between, but always fun hanging out. Oh, that's true. I'll be here. So thanks for having me. Well, big thank you to Casey for taking the time to join us. And a huge thank you once again to Brian Dunstaff for jumping off the plane from a four-game international window and joining us.

We are in for a treat with the U.S. women playing against Spain on Saturday. We will have our post-game show next Wednesday with Brianna Pinto talking about both the U.S. games, and we are so excited to watch these things go down. Coming out of that, we're going to reset things and look at where does the depth chart stand for Emma Hayes and this group. And, of course, we're going to do so from Riso Pocetino and his squad going into the fall. We've got some U.17 World Cups coming as well. So a lot to cover here, a lot to talk about.

That's why we love having this show. So thank you to Gregory for putting this all together. And thank you to all of you for listening. And we'll talk to you again very, very soon. Thank you.