SoccerWise - US Soccerwise | USMNT’S Young Stars Shine Against Chile

Episode Date: September 30, 2026

David Gass is joined by USMNT and Toronto FC defender Walker Zimmerman as well as former Vancouver Whitecaps FC head coach Vanni Sartini to break down the USMNT’s latest window, from the attacking performances against Chile to the emergence of young talent. They discuss Gio Reyna’s growing role, who might fill Tim Ream’s shoes at center back, Sebastian Berhalter’s impact and the impressive play of Julian Hall and Cavan Sullivan before previewing the upcoming match against Mexico.0:00 Intro3:32 Breaking Down the Chile Win7:14 Gio Reyna Finding His Place11:24 Tim Ream’s Legacy 13:12 The Center Back Question19:59 Julian Hall’s Breakthrough26:20 Sebastian Berhalter’s Rise37:24 Cavan Sullivan Making His Mark42:12 The USMNT’s Development Pipeline46:24 Looking Ahead to MexicoFor the sharpest coverage of American soccer, we’ve got you covered:https://linktr.ee/soccerwisehq

Well, everybody, welcome back to Soccer Lise. And boy, do we have a special episode lined up for you. The U.S. men's national team undefeated in the window, eight goals in two games under Maricio Pocetino in his second cycle as the young kids have dominated. We talked a little bit about the Peru game on Monday. We are going to dig into everything we have seen with this group halfway into this cycle with a matchup against Mexico on the horizon. And do so, we have two special guests who have been on the

show before but not together and of course to talk us men's national team we had to talk to two people currently located in canada because that's the only way we do things here at soccer wise so for starters we have one of my co-hosts on this show uh set her back for toronto fc and of course for the us men's national team mr walker zirman what's up walker what's going on it's uh yeah feels weird to be considered a canadian at this point um but yeah happy to be here and uh then farther east i'm guessing on the on the map but i think i'm right there we have mr vannie Sartini, former coach of Vancouver Whitecaps, current general manager and coach of Halifax Wanderers and former guests on this show. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, you know, you can treat me as

American, Italian, Canadian as you like. We're a citizen of the world here. I do think the heart of the American game is in Canada. So this is, this all makes sense. This all works for us. But again, I don't have the caps of Walker, but I worked for U.S. soccer. So, you know, at least there's a link there. Two USSF fans. We'll just say that. Fans of the Federation, no matter what, first and foremost. So we're going to dig into what we saw last night in the game.

We're going to sort of look forward a little bit to Mexico because that's sort of the reason a lot of people play for the U.S. National Team is a chance to play against Mexico in front of a crowd. that big game and of course Canada coming up on the other side of it. If you are looking for some breakdown on the U.S. Women's National Team roster, myself and Jordan did that yesterday. So it's on our NWSL show. You can go and listen to that one. Ashley Sanchez back into the team, the huge news.

And now the U23 roster coming out as well. That will be playing in Atlanta at the new training center. So a lot of analysis there and we'll have more coverage as we head towards those two friendlies against Spain. But big reminder, before we dig in, We are still giving away tickets to the U.S. men's national team games coming up. So we have tickets for the Mexico match on Saturday in Phoenix

and then the Canada game in Minnesota. We're partnering with American Outlaws there. We are buying you tickets for the games. We'll be doing the same for the two U.S. women's national team games against Spain. So head over to our Instagram account, soccer-wise, and our soccer-wise WOSO account, and sort of tell us why in the comments that you should be going. Have you never been to a game before?

Do you have friends who have never been? We are trying to get people in the same. stadium for the first time to experience the beautiful game. The atmospheres have been awesome so far in Orlando and St. Louis. And coming off the World Cup, we want as many people to experience soccer as we can. So we'll pick winners. We'll DM you. But go into the comments and sort of tell us why we should pick you. And you get an opportunity to go to one of these two games coming up. And then the two women's national team games after that. The U.S. is coming in undefeated in this window because it was a four-two victory over.

Chile after the 4-1 win against Peru. Let's start General. Then we could dig in a little bit on this game. Walker, we're going to start with you. Overall thoughts across the two games, across the camp, the call-ups, everything you've seen from afar of sort of what this has been for the U.S. I think it's been a pretty perfect start when you look at the goals and objectives that I'm sure was laid out from Pashtino's staff, which is get young players experience,

get them into the system, get them acclimated to the U.S. National Team Jersey, to the training. style and obviously get them game experience while also trying to win the game. And so they managed to do that in explosive fashion. Like you mentioned, scoring eight goals between the two games. A lot of young guys trying to prove their worth, trying to show that they deserve to be a U.S. men's national team player. And they're certainly giving the staff things to think about as they move on throughout the cycle. Vanny, you said it. You worked in USSF. You worked on coaching development. You also worked on youth development as these young players come into this.

system. What do you make of sort of the ideas that the Federation has of getting these players on the field and as Walker set up to speed? Yeah, I think it was like the perfect way to start a new cycle, you know. It's when you when you get into the national team and right after a World Cup, you always have our eyes on the rise or not. Okay, at least two years for the Copa America, but the big prize is in four years. So, you know, there's a lot of young talent now in the United States. There's a longer of yet talent in MLA. So I think Pocetino did perfectly to give a lot of opportunities the young players. They responded very well.

I think the team also played actually, I would say, a nice brand of soccer. The thing that we saw at the World Cup, more or less with some kind of variation, the tactics that we saw the World Cup. Of course, there's some things to improve. I think it was like they were to expose and transition a couple of times in both games. But, you know, I think it's massively positively the two games. A lot of offensive stuff that went well. A lot of players that did very well.

So really good. Walker, I wanted to ask you this one, as we're halfway through this camp, for fans to think about. Vanny mentioned sort of the openings in transition. And I'm curious as fans sort of process a group that has never played together because it was an 11 that never played together on Saturday. and then 10 changes to the starting lineup on the second game. What comes quicker? Is it against the ball?

Is it with the ball? Is it low block defending? Is it attack? Like what should fans expect to hit first as they watch a group that doesn't know each other that well? I think defensively it should be a little bit easier to get your tactics in order. But what's surprising to me is we actually saw so many incredible combinations with attacking players. I think that's what was the biggest surprise from you over the time. the two games is, yeah, we knew that they would bring the energy.

We knew that they would bring a high press, kind of, you know, getting Pachino's system like into their veins. We know he wants the energy. We know he wants to press higher up the field, especially against opponents who might not be able to break that press. But for me, how much it was clicking with the four, five, six offensive players as they entered in and around the penalty box was really clever. A lot of good movement, a lot of good, unselfish, extra passes to runners.

and it looked like they had a clear idea of how to be in the final third, but also had the freedom to express themselves. So that was the big surprise for me. Yeah, it feels like Giorana has been at the center of a lot of that. He's the only player who carried over starting in the two games. He's 23 years old and he's the veteran on this team and all the players keep talking about it. Walker, how surprised are you maybe that he's already in that role when you were playing with him as a 19-year-old, not that long ago?

Not very surprised. I mean, Geo is one of these kind of generational prospects that we've had in the system for the last couple of years. And his name's certainly been in and around the headlines when it comes to what are some of the most important players for the national team. And I think for him, it's when he's playing well and when he's fit and healthy, he's a difference maker. And so I think, you know, the biggest struggles for him have been well documented, which is availability and minutes and health and all those sorts of things. but I don't think anyone's questioned his out and out ability on the ball, his vision, his technique when it comes to his clever assists or his ability to break a line with the pass

and is finishing with his shot. So it's good to see him get a lot of minutes. I'm glad that he got the back-to-back stars to kind of get into a rhythm, and I'm sure we'll see more from him this window. He has started six games in the last like five weeks. He has started six games over the course of three years before that, I think it is. I mean, what like what do you make of what you make of what you? you do with a player like that, both from a health point of view, but then also what he is good at

and how you try and get it into the team. Yeah, yeah. I agree with what Walker said before about the combination and the interchange of position. And I think that a lot is done because of, of course, of the system that Pocetino wants to create, but also of the characteristic of the players. And Rana is a central piece of it, because if you talk about him, what is he? He's a winger, is a 10, he's an offensive 8, is an 8, 10, you know? Maybe he can play him. as a false nine sometimes. And, you know, it's like he's a guy that even during the game was like, you know, always changing their changing position in the first game with Tillman in the game

against the Chile with Bear Halter, wide inside. And that allowed, I would say, the other players that were players that are really good in, you know, not giving point of reference to the opposition, you know, the, to the, to the, You know, the midfield tree yesterday was Mehmeti, Brooklyn Reins and Sebastian Berhalter. They were always interchanging position. Then actually Sebastian went to play wide on the right when they switched with desk. But this way of having this player that can move a lot. And yesterday they have also hold as a number nine that is someone who really doesn't make,

doesn't give point of reference to a defender. If the technical quality is there and it was there, it can be really. really, really funny. And I think that I would say Gio can be kind of the center of the project. And maybe you already seen it because it was the only one who started both the games. There's these moments, especially yesterday in the first half, where the game feels very simple for Gio. Like he's waiting. And he doesn't mind waiting where the speed of play felt high for Mehmeti and Brooklyn Raines right early in their national team careers. But there's some buildouts in the first half where it's just you get the ball to Gio's foot. and he'll just assess it all.

But he wasn't overly aggressive in feeling like he had to break the game open. And that's where, you know, I think in my mind these two games, and I said it coming into the camp with Dunney, like, there's things he's doing right now that are just normal soccer things where we just haven't seen him do that because he hasn't played a lot of like just moving within a deep block and being connected to a group and playing in the opening 45 minutes. And then there's these moments that you see in a game yesterday where the game's so easy for him sometimes. and it's more of a when he finds an answer versus if he can find an answer as long as he can be out there.

And it feels pretty special right now to watch him sort of do his thing because Walker, as he said, he's been around this conversation for a long time. We just haven't seen him fully healthy and available for this stretch of games. He is also a leader now because everyone is seven years old. That's the nature of this team. But let's start with one player who was not available for the game yesterday. Tim Rame was honored in St. Louis, his hometown, 38 years old. He announces his national team retirement in the press conference. I think it was after the game. 86 caps across 16 years with the national team, two World Cups, two Nations League championships or wins, whatever we call it.

Walker, pretty like ideal way to go out having played the World Cup. And now in your hometown, which is so rare on the field with your family, it's kind of dream stuff. for a guy who's been a huge part of the program. Totally. And it's, it's a great story and it's, it's unique in the sense of him doing it, a lot of it after the age of 30, or I think it was something like 60 caps or something like out of the 86,

we're after 30. It's incredible, you know, 16 years in and around or somewhat involved in the national team from beginning to end. That's a long time. That's a long time for any career, let alone an international career. So it's a testament to him and his hard work

and ability to continue to dream, continue to believe in yourself. That's not going to happen if you don't believe in yourself to make a second World Cup at age 38 or whatever it is. So I know it was a special day for him. I know he was, you know, obviously we saw the emotion after the World Cup lost because I think he knew at that point in time. Like that was going to be it for him.

I don't think it would have done him any good to say, oh, I'm going to suit up one more time and a friendly. It's like, no, you want to go out as the captain of a team in a World Cup and say, I gave everything I had and it was a great run. to do it in St. Louis with friends and family, makes me more special. And it's amazing for him. He was able to continue to play a role partially because of his talent and his

soccer brain and what he does well. The other side is that's a gap in this national team. Centerback is a role that people are fighting to fill. And over the course of these two games, I don't know that anyone has really staked their name to it. Yeah. And also, Rima is also that profile, that it was perfect for the way they were playing, playing as a left side of the centerback, that they become a back three most of the time

when the, when the team is in attack, so he can also build up and help the team building up, not only defending as a centerback. So it's going to be, of course, harder to fill the can of shoes. I think there's a lot of, you know, very good talent. in this group. Probably not the same kind of profile of players that the team rim is. Like, you know, the only lefty is probably trusty in the, in the guys that the guys that we saw in these two games. And is, I would say, less of a calm, collected building up player when we, when we got from the back, is more of a classic defenders. So I think the space to, you know, see what

is going to be the team in the future. I honestly, I really like Neil Pierre. I really think that he has like really, really, really high ceilings. It's more of a kind of a classic centerback, more of a middle of the three.

If you think about back three, instead of one of the two on the side. But, you know, there's also Myx Robinson that is another, I would say, veteran. I would say we're talking about Gio as a veteran, but he played a lot, he played a lot too. And even though he's not used too much to play on the left, he plays more on the right side. He has the talent to, and also the characteristic, like trusty defensively, like to play in an aggressive team that can be also a transitional team because it's very good also at defending the space behind it.

Is it crazy to think that maybe one of the answers to this? Because you talk about profiles in this middle of it, is that Chris Richard? it slides out of that middle? Like, is it wild to think after the success of the World Cup that that's one of the moves? Yeah, you know, you need to try. You need to, for me, it's the big question mark is to be how Neil P.R.

is going to be growing up and, you know, getting minutes, okay, it's getting minutes a lot for Philadelphia now. Maybe, you know, they're all talking about a move to Europe or whatever. But I think it's, it makes sense. sense to to try to try different things. Of course you are talking about that next game against Mexico. This for sure is the biggest game of these three games. So I would assume that Pocetino would go probably with the guys that are even more also, I would say, used to

play this kind of game. So probably I wouldn't be surprised if they play Richards and Miles Robinson in these games, but we will see. Walker, what do you make of sort of where Chris Richards sits with all the unknown around him. I think, you know, Vanny brought up a good point of how when we go into the attack, we kind of have three at the back there. And I think if you look at the profile of centerbacks,

I think what allowed Tim to slide out to the left a little easier was the athleticism of Antony on the left, and then you obviously had Chris on your right. So when you look at maybe a world where you're sliding Chris out to the left, yeah, you still have Anthony there. but then do you have, is it a Neil Pierre in the middle? It changes a little bit. And because you have these fullbacks that are so vertical and they can both go up and down,

it kind of does create like, are they going to be good enough 1B1 defenders in isolation? And that was one of my fears of the World Cup was when Anthony goes high and temp slides out left, can we get exposed in transition 1v1? And we saw it a couple times, even in the friendlies leading up to the World Cup. So it's a good point. And ideally, you know, you have centerback. that are capable of being flexible and fluid in those positions. But I think time will tell on if any of these guys fit the bill for that role.

Do you think as they figure it out, and I think back to yesterday's game, I think Neil struggled more in possession than out of possession, it felt like early. Like what do you think are the biggest attributes you're looking for, or the coaching staff looks for? What is sort of the jumps the players have to make as they get to the national team level? I think right now, under Pocitino's system, that they care more about the athleticism

and ability to defend in a high block and a high press, then they value the ability to build out with the ball. Because we see a lot of times we're going to drop in someone anyways or build out of three. Like you can drop in a testament. You can drop in a Tyler Adams.

You can tuck Freeman in and leave Sergenia out wide almost as a wingback. There's so many other options to build out, but there's not as many options when you think about centerbacks who can be very aggressive in mark high of the field and defendant's base. And so that's, I think,

they value that quality a little bit more than maybe quality on the ball at this point. Danny, it seems like you agree. I agree because it's also the direction where soccer is going right now. You know, like, you know, if, I don't know, until 15, 20 years ago, of course, the ideal thing is to do everything perfectly, tactically at the top intensity. And until 15, 20 years ago, it was, okay, let's focus first on the perfection and then if we get the intensity, now I think it's the other way around. the intensity is a must and you see even in the

in the highest level game you have defenders that maybe make a wrong read of the play but then they're so good that they can recover and win it back the ball so I think that is the first thing that

that Pocetino will see and also for me it's really interesting to understand what they're going to do for what Walker was saying like you know or not isolating the defender really well, what do they want to do with the midfielders? Because for me, the only big difference in between the two games

were the choice of the midfielders. A more positional midfielder with Mousa and Tyler Adams like they did in the first game, or a more kind of creating free-floating midfielder. There was Mehmeti, Reins and Berhalter. They were like interchanging position. The game was more fluid, in my opinion, with the ball, but it led you a little bit more exposed when you,

you don't have the ball. So that's a choice to be made there. Everyone listening to this show already knows the game ended four, too. I had like a blow-by-blow of the goals. I don't think I have to give that for every person. So I'll start with this. Jedi captain the team on his 60th cap, eight goals in two games, as we mentioned, four different goal scores in both games.

And as I said, Gio Raina, the only player to stay in the starting lineup between the two. But when you guys talk about intensity, to me, The spark for a lot of it yesterday felt like Julian Hall up top. He's got two goals in two games. Vaney, you mentioned he does some different things than a center forward. He's just 18 years old. He started pretty much the whole year for Michael Bradley. What do you make of this young player and what he's done already?

Well, he's a really good player. Like, you know, he's a guy that is a number nine, but he moves like he's a winger. And so he attacked the space in a team like this that, you know, especially the international level, Because, you know, when you go to the international level, you don't play against teams that are together the entire here. And sometimes, you know, the quality of the organization of the defense is not the best. Having someone who can really exploit every space, attacking the back, playing with the other, with the other, the midfielders underneath him going and then playing to the midfielders and then attack the space again. And it's really a handful and, you know, and also two goals in two games. So that's also the quality of the fact that it's not only the movement,

it's not only the creation, but also the finalization part. I think he's having a very good season, of course, with the Red Bulls is a top season. And I think he deserved the call. And it was really, really good in the first two games. I mean, dummies have to go down as a CIS. Come on. It creates the goal. Like, how does that not get credited?

of both players. The real assist, it seemed because the comment on TV say, yeah, we don't know if he knew that Berlter was behind you. I think he was asked post game. He said, I knew someone should be there. Yeah, you know.

So I think he gave credit there. Walker, you've played against him now. You've watched him play. Justin Ellis got to start in the first game. He also scored in his debut. The two of them have sort of taking the Eastern Conference by Storm in their young years, rookie year for Justin Ellis. What do you make of the differences between them and how they both fit this group?

Well, I think, you know, the key word that stuck out to me that Vanney mentioned was, for Julian Hall, at least, is movement. It's very clever. It's something that you see for more season strikers. And for him to be doing that at 18 and having kind of that, you can have a nose for the goal, but like the idea of how you move to create that space and then have the composure on top of it to finish your chances when you get. it because it's not like he's, you know, getting a ton of touches on the ball. It's not like he's

dropping down and combining all that much. He's just being very intelligent with how he rotates, how he moves, how he's positioning himself in the final third, and obviously being unselfish, you know, as you mentioned with the dummy, to create chances for others. So the movement for me is a great attribute for his age. I think you look at the difference between him and Ellis. I think Ellis is a little bit better in terms of combining, almost more of like a midfielder, with how he gets on the ball. He can dribble all the way across the field. He can combine.

But very technical and tight spaces, has good vision and a good way to final pass and good finishing quality. So two guys that have had a great start to their MLS careers and now their national team careers. Fannie, what did you see from Ellis in the first game? Yeah, really good.

First of all, after five minutes, he scored. So that's like that's like, yeah, you know, the business card of Van Nu, Van Nu. And then what Walker was saying, like, you know, the fact that he can combine very good technically with the players underneath him. And the game that were playing in that game, you know, Peru was playing much a deeper block than Chile. So it was a different kind of game. There was much less space to attack him behind. And that's the reason why he had to drop sometimes even in a deeper position and try to play and then attack the box.

And then I think it's more his characteristic. I think Hall is more a guy that, you know, playing against the quote-unquote bigger teams that try to, you know, to play and to free a little bit of space in behind. I think it can be a very good solution for the national team. I watched it back today. So he gets a big chance in that first half. He gets put in on goal by Seb. Yeah. He goes to the side of the keeper at the top of the box.

He takes that one moment, which is fine. he then stumbles off of that. I didn't notice that in person, which sort of kills his angle. And then he ends up sort of blasting it over the crossbar. And there's like a moment of worry where it's like, okay, young player, like that's a big chance. That's sort of what you're on the field for.

As you said, that's the business card for you, that's your calling card. And then he comes back and he still, you know, affects the game. He's willing to make the dummy. He scores the goal. I think for him and overall for the team, right? This team dominates Peru. Now in this game, they get equalized late in the half,

they go behind for the first time in the camp. It felt like a decent amount of bounce back in collectivity from this group outside of the fight, which we can go into forever at the end. No, yeah. And also, I think it, because when we talk about character, okay, sometimes we forget also that you need quality to do it, what the national team did. Like, you know, that's like the fact that I think there's a lot of confidence

in the fact that especially in the first 15, 20 minutes, boom, They were playing well. They were getting, they were playing and keep playing. And even after mistakes can happen, there's a mistake at some point. I think there's Mehmeti tried to play the ball to Sebastian. And they do like a counterattack and they hit the post-Chile. And so those are, I would say, those are things that, of course, Pocetino is going to work.

But those are a mistake that you need to kind of, I would say, accept it. If you want a team that is a team on the front foot, a team that kind of play in a certain way because playing in this way give you the confidence that even if you can see the goal, okay, let's keep playing, yeah, we're going to score. We're going to have the chance in order to score again. So, Sebara Altaire has four goals to assists

in his last five games for club and country. He is second in 2026 where goals scored for the national team. He has six goal contributions, goal slash assists, which is first for the team. So Walker, I got like 19 quotes from Pochitino post game about Seb Burrhalter. He said in it, maybe I'm talking about him too much because he's kind of falling in love. Here's the quote. He says he is always happy to do anything for the national team.

I said before that this type of game is priceless and to have a player like him is priceless. It's difficult to put a value on. So I think Mauricio Pochitino is a fan of Sebastian Burrhalter is what I got from this one. A hundred percent. And why shouldn't he? He's taken advantage of every single opportunity that he's gotten with the national team. And if you keep doing that,

you're going to keep getting called in. And for him, it couldn't happen to a better guy who's been working his way through both MLS ranks now into international and obviously off to a good start at Millsboro. And he's doing it all in different ways. He's playing slightly different positions even in Millsboro. He's really developed his set piece capabilities

over the last couple of years and put himself in the position to get these assists to create dangerous chances for his team. So, you know, he's a big believer of mentality, and can I get 1% better, 1% better? He's actually going out and doing it. He's spending the time on the training field, working on the set pieces, knowing it can be an asset for the team.

And now every time he steps over the ball, you're thinking, well, could we score? Like, I know it's going to be a good delivery. You know, it's a great quality. And again, it's because of the work ethic, and you see that on the field that anytime he turns the ball over, you know he's going to try and get it back as fast. as possible. Fannie, you obviously worked with Seb as he finally broke through and got some

full-time pro minutes in Vancouver. What do you make of his development? Yeah, you know, I'm, you know, I'm biased, of course. You know, like when we signed Sebastian, it was like the margin in Austin and then he became like a top player, a very important player for us. And then after that, even a top player is what Walker said. He's like, there's no better guy that you could root for, you know, like the amount of work and dedication and also availability to do everything because what Pochitin said was the same. Like when I coached him, he played for me as a number eight, as a number six, as a winback. He played a fantastic playoff game as a rideback. I guess Wanga, we beat the LATFC 30. He played a he played right back in the game. And, you know, it was like

amazing. And the fact that he did it through developing through the work, what Walker was saying is like, you know, the little nuggets of things like at the beginning of the 2024 season, we had the meeting with our data scientist, our analysts at the Y caps. And we say, hey, we need to do better in the offensive set plays because the accuracy of the crosses on the set plays, we need to get better. So I remember that we invested a lot of time. We called like a kicking coach from from Denmark to come and we invested in technology. And you have to, you have to see how much, how many repetitions Sebastian did in order to improve. And from a very good set piece taker that he was, I don't want to ask any perioli.

But now for me, he's like he's one of the top 10 set piece taker in the world in my opinion. And it's like, it's something really like, it's a guy that at the beginning of the game, you say the XG is going to be like 0.3, 0.4 more because it's going to be an assist on a corner or on a wide free kick or something. So I think it's getting position in the national team also because of his versatility again.

Yesterday, it started as kind of as in the Tillman role, you know, 8-10. then he went to played wide on the right and he finished the game it was basically the six so that's that's that's that's that's Sebastian Berhalter for you basically so let me ask him that though like does he find a permanent role in one spot and does the game states need to fit him in a certain way that can be that can be you know the the double-edged sword in the sense that I think he will always be cold and he will always be in the team and And we need to see if he is going to be the starter every single time.

I think the midfield three suits him better than the midfield two. Like I see him more playing like a six and then two-eighths, like he's one of the two-eighths going there, then playing like having, you know, 10 more offensive player then and then be next to Adams or next to Musa just as a deeper six. but I think that if he keeps scoring, it's hard to take him out. Walker, what do you make of, is that the right setup for him, that midfield three, playing a little bit more possession? Yeah, it is for me.

I agree having him a little bit higher as an eight has, you know, seen as dividends. I just, when I think about when we have a full-string squad, I think it's very hard for him to crack and that's not a slight to him. I just think of like a Tyler, a Weston, and a Malik. And I'm like, I don't think he's displacing any of those guys if they're healthy. And that's, again, maybe a different type of game can call for a different type of situation. And you make that change. But in terms of his ability to contribute, absolutely.

He'll contribute whenever he gets a chance. That's what's also the best thing about Seb is he is a team guy. And he's going to, yeah, of course the competitor in him is going to want him to be on the field every single minute. but he also has the team first mentality that allows him to say, okay, I'm rooting as hard as I can for these three guys in front of me. And when I get my chance, I'm going to come in and make a difference. So you really get a great player with a great team first mindset. What would you do if you play when you play with someone who has set piece service like this?

Or I don't know. I guess in Vanney's opinion, maybe there's only nine other guys on the planet. So it changes a lot. It changes a lot when you're in attacking. set piece specialist, I guess, like on the heading end of it. So when I look at set pieces, it can go one of two ways. If I have a set piece taker that is like Sebastian Burrhalter, who is very accurate and pinpoint with his accuracy, I know that my job is different.

My job is strictly an aggressive run that beats my first offender, and I'm trusting that he puts it on my head, and then I don't have to get much power generated through my own will. If someone's less accurate, I take the opposite approach, and I'm like, I'm going to to take myself over my opponent 1 v1, give me a little bit more height, a little more loft, a chance to have a bigger radius

where I can actually out muscle, outplay my defender, either get a goal scoring header or a flick to somewhere else that's dangerous. And so it changes. If it's someone who can deliver like Seb, I'm making an aggressive run and saying it's going to be somewhere near here. And that's what we saw

with the Chris Richards goal is he actually had no defender on him. They stacked two guys. They were completely zoned. defending on that corner and he came from a free spot into the most dangerous part of of the box there in my opinion which is kind of like that near post middle middle of the goal right on top of the six I mean could have had a better delivery and a better place to ball for from said to Chris with a guy like said where you know it's accurate is the work that's being done okay Chris Richards is our top header so we're always aiming for him

and he's always making this run. Is that the conversation? I think it's a little bit more complex than that. A lot of it, I think, depends on the opponent. Are they zone? Are they man? Where are they vulnerable? And then I think you look at their deficiencies

and then put your best strengths against those deficiencies. So if they're strong at dealing with the near post, I'm going to probably send my target to the backpost and make that delivery to the backpost and vice versa. So I guess a little bit of cat and mouse. But again, it makes a lot easier when the ball is going to that, you know, specific area. Our Mikkelov Ultra moment of the week is Seb Warholter's service to Chris Richards.

And it was the winning goal in this game. And I was going to sort of talk a little bit about him, Vin, he mentioned as a person. So Pochitino's quote was, he's a very good role model player for the players that arrived for the first time, or for the players that maybe are watching from home in the way that we expect the players to behave, the commitment, of course, that is one part of him and what we expect. Tyler Adams was captain the first game and Jedi Robinson was captain the second game. I think coming out of this, people are talking about that quote saying, could Seb Burrell to be a future captain the U.S. men's national team?

Well, in terms of leadership, in terms of, you know, how he behaves on the field and off the field for sure. I would say he's already like quote-unquote a captain. He's already a leader in the sense that if the coach says that he's a role model for other players, You're going to be one of the player that is listened when you talk about in the, when you talk about something in the locker room when you have to set an example and so on. Of course, that's the other thing that was Walker was saying before. The captain should be also someone that is always more or less always starting for the team. So that's and also a player that is, I would say, ready to, to, you know, play every game

to be very, very, very, very, I would say, and used to play some games. My cat is also the... The cats are Seths. That is like, it wants to say something about it. Yeah, it's a Burr-Alter household. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that for me, Tyler Adams is the natural choice

at the moment to be the captain, but, you know, maybe for the future, you never know. Walker, how much does it matter? Like, as Van Lee said, if Seb acts the way he acts, Does it matter who has the actual arm band? I mean, as a lifetime captain. Look, it can go.

I think leaders are going to be leaders regardless of whether they have the band or not. I think that way about myself and in different situations when I'm on team, I'm going to, my leadership and my role and my work ethic and my commitment to the team is not going to waver whether I wear armba or not. Sebastian's the exact same way. Walker felt so strongly about that point that he just blew up his router. So Walker's Wi-Fi is dead. and me and Vanney are going to continue on without him,

assume that Walker is saying really deep things about everything else as we go through the next few topics. We want to look forward to the Mexico game, of course, but Vinny, I say I'm impressed maybe that we've gone this long and we haven't talked about Kevin Sullivan, who is the most popular soccer player in the history of North America. So there's, you know, the age part, breaking Freddie Adieu's record

as the youngest player and all of that. And then there's a quality part, which we've talked about on our shows. He is not there because he's a prospect. He is there because he is productive. It's a good play. Yeah.

And even on the record, on the Fredia Adu thing, so Fredi Adu did a fantastic record, but he did it probably in the early 90s where the level of the U.S. national team was... Mid-2000. 2006, seven, maybe. Oh, three, maybe, maybe 2003.

Yeah, the level, yeah, you know, like now the, you know, the global stage and everything to reach top level at 15, 16 years old. Like, yeah, it is like incredible. And, yeah, he's doing fantastically with the Union and he did fantastically in the first game. You know, he was, I think, in the first 10, 12, 15 minutes, maybe something, it was even tried too much in the games against. against Peru. And then when he get into the flow, he was able to do what he does for the Union to be like a guy, not only a winger, but someone who arrives in the box and can be a threat, can serve assist, win 1V1, interchange in position with the number 10 and playing inside, very fast. He's also, you know, he's 17 years old, but fights like he played 600 games.

games in Concacoff, you know. You go one v one against him and, you know, he's going to press you and he's going to back off on a fight. Yeah, he's an extremely good player. I would be extremely, extremely surprised if the future will not be as bright as we think for him because I think he has everything to become a really, really, really, really good player for the national team, but not only for the national team. You know, we'll see because now, yes.

On the Man City, if they go to the third division, it's better to stay. It's better to stay in Philadelphia, in my opinion. I think someone yesterday tweeted out on Blue Sky, Plymouth Argyle is going to hate seeing Kevin Sullivan in League One in two years. Yeah. That's the thing. But, yeah, you know, it's also a big part. of this, the Philadelphia Union, what they did right after the World Cup is something incredible.

And so it's, I think, it can be really like, you know, the guy that can be the face of the future of the national. And, you know, normally for me, and I cover a lot of the youth ranks and people always want to know prospects and where they stand and what they are, I try to avoid as much as I can pressure and, you know, like keying in on specific people. Like we just talked about Tim Ream, went to college, got drafted, went to England, played most of his caps after 30. And I do think that's going to be an aspect of American soccer always because we can't find everyone because it's not the way the country is built. It's not the way the sport is fully built. There is so much of that, though, that just feels different with Kevin. I think a lot of it's his family.

You know, he's the younger brother of a guy who I think is a national team player. Yeah, he is. Yeah, yeah. His parents are clearly special. It feels like, listen, you don't want to put him in any situation. But it feels like the rules with him of how you introduce him, how you get him involved, almost feel different than with any other young player. Yeah, yeah.

It's true. It's true. You know, now in MLS, that is a very good league, if you play against the Philadelphia Union in the next game, yeah, the coach is going to talk about him a lot. Yeah. because it's not that he's playing there because he's like, see, he's just to play there, but it's true.

And I really, I really agree with you on what you said before about the fact of being a younger brother of a very good player like Queen is. And because, you know, even in the growing up is the competition in the family and having a role model, understanding immediately what means to be a professional.

and really help, in my opinion, too, for him to be faster in the development than some other player in his same situation. So 12 players have made their debut in this camp. 11 of them are teenagers and Brian Schwachie. The other one, you worked at U.S. soccer, and part of it was looking at the pipeline and looking at the way it was built. Does this surprise you at all that 2026 this is happening? No, it doesn't surprise me.

in the sense that U.S. soccer put a lot of effort and a lot of work in the fact that the quality of the youth development was going to be the best possible, not only directly with really high-level programs with the national team. I can tell you, I know the number of people that work in the youth development and they try to be, I would say, on top of the top of the, top of things with national teams, with the talent identification, and U.S. soccer has been always a priority for the Federation. So it doesn't surprise me. But also in undirecting, I think this is a great victory of what happened like 15 years ago

when the U.S. soccer and the MLS, they launched the academies. And, you know, because you were talking about all these kids that are playing, all these kids come from MLS academies. all these kids they played in the MLS Next and the MLS Next Pro. And this is also a testament on the fact that there's a high quality environment in the academies now. There's a high quality competition in the MLS Next

and high quality coaching. And that's the reason why, you know, Kevin Sullivan is probably someone like, you know, that would have come up in a case because it's like maybe it's like He's a unicorn. It's a generational talent. but there's a lot of the other guys that, you know, they come and, you know, we didn't talk about a lot of Brooklyn range that's not a very good players.

Mehmet is top players, like 17, 18 years old, playing for the Red Bulls and for the national team in this way. So it's really a testament, in my opinion, on how both the league, the MLS is working now, where there's a lot of coaches that they don't have a problem. We're talking about last time also the fact that there's no relegation in our league. So there's a little less problem on playing. Oh, let's play this 17, 18-year-old. If it's good, good to go.

And that is going to help for sure the growth of the national team, the American national team. Bacchitean specifically spoke at, I believe, Saturday's press conference after the game and said, a lot of credit has to go to the MLS coaches that work with these kids because their ability to ontake what he wants so quickly, at their age, in their first camp, he attributed a lot to what the coaches do with them.

And the thing I said is the other side of that is the bravery of it, which it doesn't feel like it from the outside, but young players normally lose games early on. And if you're a coach and you play those guys, you know, some teams make it so you have to. That's what Philadelphia does. Like Ryan Richter has no choice because they don't sign other players. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't take risk for coaches to put these players on the field.

That's 16, 17, 18. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the same thing that, you know, Some people criticize a little bit Michael Bradley because the team is a little bit up and down, the Red Bulls. But it's normal if you play this 17-year-old, but in the long term, it's going to be good for you. And at the same time, you need to instill to these young guys

the mentality of winning the game. Walker was said before, won the both game. You know, the fact that Pocetino changed tactically against Chile after 35 minutes because you wanted to win the game. You know, okay, we're playing the young. guys, you know what, it's better if I put Bralter here, the desk here, and I help these young guys playing back because, you know, and so that's

there's also, I would say, an aspect of trying to get the result that I think it will be even more because, you know, playing against the rival against Mexico next Saturday is going to be even a bigger game in this terms. Look at you hosting and moving us around the show. Let's go to the Mexico game. coming up on Saturday night.

As I said, we still have tickets to give away. So make sure to message us. We are trying to give them to people who have never been to a game before, or it's been a long time, or there's a reason that it's been tough for you to get to a game. So please jump into our comments on Soccerwise, Soccerwise, Wosso, and let us know why you should be going with the American Outlaws on Saturday. It's 10 p.m. Eastern time out in Glendale, it is going to be 90% Mexico fans, 10% USA fans.

It's my favorite game that, you know, a team that I sort of support plays in. I can remember every single one that's been played. There's been some bad ones over the years. I was at a 5-1 Mexico win in the 2009 Gold Cup final at Giant Stadium in 180-degree weather. There's been some great ones, of course, the Nations League over the last few years. And it was a bit of a coming out for the generation that Walker worked with going into the 2022 World Cup with with Pulisic, with Weston McKinney, with Serginio Dest. their personalities really came out in the sort of push and pull against Mexico.

Now you've got all these young players. How do you think Maricio Pocetino deals with this on Saturday? Yeah, as I said, I think he will be making choices to play the young players, but probably to put also the experienced player there. I expect Tyler Adams to play. I expect Chris Richards to play. Probably Musa to play too. know guys that they know on how to be in those games, of course, Giorina,

and to help the young players to set up the tone to know that this is a friendly game, but it's still, you know, the biggest rivalry for the US national team to play against Mexico. And so I believe that he will be, of course, it's going to be something in order to build the team, develop the team, but there will be put a lot of, in my opinion, a lot of accent and a lot of, I would say, focus on the fact that, you know, we need to try to win this game.

And because that's also going to be going to build a certain type of culture in the team for when the real games will arrive. Yeah, I've talked about this a couple of times. You know, some of the coaches I talk to in youth development style and this is not youth development. It's a senior national team. I know that.

But one of the comments that's, you know, gets made, and I cover the GA Cup for a long time is like one of the things we do is there's moments where we talk about process and there's moments where we say F it, let's go win. Mexico is the FIT, let's go win moment, which is a learning moment in itself because that's what a World Cup is, that's what a Copa

America is, that's what a gold cup is. And so I think you said it, Richards, Adams, I expect to see, I assume Gio will get the start once again with the way he's played. Matt, Matting, all freeze, I think. Yeah, which is a debate we have to have. and a longer conversation, which we'll get into.

Let me ask you about Central Midfield. Do you think Eunice Mousa gets the start because of experience? I think it depends for me tactically what he wants to do. Yeah. So if he wants to play on, let's say, this three-man midfield where, you know, Tillman can start almost as a number eight when we have the ball. Maybe you can even play Tyler Adams-Tilman and Berhalter. if he thinks that Mexico is going to be a game

where you need to play with both Reina and Tillman higher in order to support the number nine, I think Musa will play. I think that's going to be the question mark and Robinson probably on the left is the killer. And on the right, I don't know, because on the right high, you know, Freeman, I think, as a right back,

right centerback. And I would, I would probably say that this is a game where, you know, you showcase your, your magic 17-year-old and you play him as a right wing and a man, it's against passive. It is the position is open. Now, Serginio Desk played there. And I actually thought Des was really good yesterday. He had a moment early where he actually instigated the press, which led to an early chance for Hall. He then switches over to the left. I think the reason he played on the left is because Frankie Westfield struggled and Serginio Desk doesn't defend or cover his position and you don't know where he's going to pop up. And if that's the case, if you have this unknown quantity, might as well be the 17-year-old

who's the future and the face of the team. I agree with you that Dest is very good, but also it's a very vertical player. It's less crafty than Sullivan. It can combine less in the sense, you know, Raina can pop out or maybe a midfielder can pop out and he can go and he can go more inside. So we will see. And I would confirm Hull as a number nine, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree with you.

I think Hall, one of the things I love about him is I think the way he shapes his pressure and makes it predictable for the guys behind him. He also was going to do it for however many minutes on the field, which makes the game a little bit easier for the guys around him and two goals. He's playing on confidence. But it will be something to see because Mexico over the two games under Rafa Marquez so far, I think they've looked similar to the World Cup, which is they have a ton of possession.

There's like almost an overwhelming amount of control, but there's no creativity. There is no breakthrough. And so we saw it against England, the 87,000 crosses and all of that. It feels like a lot of that except for Giobarro. And if it's more against Gavin Sullivan, it's a special guy.

It's their special guy. And I agree with you. The fact that Mexico at the World Cup, at least they played a game that was like, not too much attacking the space in behind of the opposition defense. So they were relying a lot on the combination underneath the line and then Raul Jimenez maybe finding a goal or on a cross or something. And, you know, the U.S. will need to be prepared on this kind of, again,

team that wants to possess a little bit more. So when they don't have the bull, they need to be probably a little bit more compact than in the last two games in order to try to trap them and try to win the ball back because I agree with you that you know, leave in space for Gibraltar and trying to leave in him to have too much freedom in between midfield and defense could be a problem.

It is going to be a fun one. I think it's going to be one that we all look back on in 10 years and say when these two were 17 and this kid was here and this kid was here. This was this game. And it could set up the region for a long time. If not, then it'll be the next game, which will be U.S. against Canada coming up in Minnesota. So we're going to have sort of a fun mailbag episode coming up tomorrow on MLS things with Doyle and Tom. Monday we'll be back with all USM&T reaction from the Mexico game.

And then next Wednesday we're going to talk USA Canada as well. So a lot to dig into. It's been really fun. As I said, we didn't talk goalkeepers. We didn't really talk Mehmeti in Brooklyn Raines. We didn't get to talk maybe as much as we'd like about some of the young players or Gozo, who hasn't got as many minutes as I expected. True. That's why we have this show.

That's why we have all of our shows so that we can do this all the time. Huge thank you to Walker Zimmerman for taking the time to join us until his internet blew up. And Vanny, appreciate you taking the time to join us. Enjoy what I assume is a nice fall in Halifax. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like here in Nova Scotia, a lot of colors. So fully still really, really beautiful. Yes.

And, yeah, always fun having you on. Thank you to all of you for listening. As I said, U.S. Women's National Team Roster Coverage is on our NWSL show this week. We've got some special shows. We're going to have Brianna Pinto back on to talk about the Spain games coming up as well as some other guest hosts. So a lot to look forward to, and we'll talk to you all again very soon.