SoccerWise - US Soccerwise | What’s Next for the USMNT and USWNT?

Episode Date: September 9, 2026

What comes next for the U.S. Men’s and Women’s National Teams? David Gass and Brian Dunseth look at Mauricio Pochettino’s second cycle with the USMNT, the players that are pushing to get into the team and what it could like for the next four years. Then, Michelle French, who coached the U.S. U-20s at two World Cups and was an assistant with the USWNT in 2015, joins Gass to talk about her experience, the decisions young players face between college, club and country and the path to the USWNT.0:00 Intro2:34 Pochettino’s Second Cycle8:27 Players Left Off the World Cup Roster12:23 How the USMNT Core Evolves16:56 Reshaping U.S. Soccer21:42 Building the Player Pathway25:11 Win Now or Build Mode29:26 What Will the September Camp Look Like?43:11 Testing the USMNT Against Different Competition49:40 Michelle French on the U-20 World Cup52:41 Balancing College, Club & Country56:41 The Evolution of Youth National Teams59:22 College Soccer’s Strength1:03:54 The Evolution of Women’s Soccer in the USFor the sharpest coverage of American soccer, we’ve got you covered:https://linktr.ee/soccerwisehq

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the U.S. Soccer Wise show, our weekly show where we dig into the biggest storylines around the national team. Secret of television here. I am recording this in advance as I'm away right now. I believe I'm hiking up a mountain somewhere in the Andes, but didn't want to leave you without a show. And we've got an incredible one today. We have two in-depth conversations with two of the smartest soccer people that I've been lucky enough to chat with. We're going to hit some of the big conversations coming up this fall. First, we've got Brian Dunsteth, Dunny, one of our own here at Soccer Wise. We're going to dig into what the fall camp should be for Maricio Pachitino as well as, what are the big question marks around his second cycle as a head coach, a second cycle that exists in a different format. No sporting director above him. He's got experience.

He comes in with the gravitas of how well he did at the World Cup, which you could fall on maybe different sides of, as well as past relationship now with these players. myself and Dunny, we're going to dig into what we want to see in the fall, the work that Potch and his staff have to do. Who are the big names to know, whether it's young players like a Kevin Sullivan or a Xavier Gozo trying to break into the team or maybe some of the players who are on the edge of the World Cup or in the World Cup roster who are now in a serious fight for time and what the future

over the next four years of the U.S. men's national team is. Then we're going to talk with Michelle French, who is currently the head coach of the University of Portland's women's soccer team and has a long history with the U.S. Soccer Federation herself. She was the coach at two U-20 World Cups as well as an assistant coach on the 2015 U.S. World Cup winning team and the 2016 Olympic team. So right now, the U.S. in the middle of their U-20 World Cup run, having just played Italy this weekend and getting ready to step on the field, basically right now, against Japan. So we talked with Michelle the experience of what players are going through right now, the value of a U-20 World Cup for players, the conversations about choosing whether or not to leave your pro team or your college team, as well as then the development path line for young elite players to get into the national team, what Emma Hayes is building and what U.S. soccer has built in the past.

So really excited. Dunny, we're going to dig in into some national team stuff. We're going to talk a little, Pocitino. We're going to try and get inside of his. brain, which feels a little bit dangerous. Dangerous, yeah. We know as long as there's a bowl of lemons around, we're in a positive space, because it's going to take away all the negativity. But yeah, big news, obviously, with Marisa Puchino and his staff reupping through 2030, bigger picture. I wonder what that power vacuum looks like. There's a lot of different directions

to go to on top of Matt Crocker, departing ahead of the World Cup to join up with Saudi Arabia. What does that look like behind the scenes? How do they deviate the responsibilities? How do collectively they start this next process of thinking about regional trophies, qualifying for the World Cup. And somewhere within that dynamic is a really fascinating conversation about Steve Tarandolo and the Olympic team along with dual nationals. And can we get back to maybe at some point this green card to U.S. passport conversation with some really, I don't know, dynamic attacking players that are successful in MLS? You brought this up to me in the pre-meeting and I was like, oh, that's a great idea. Let's talk about that.

that all the potential could have ended or be a U.S. men's national team player, not something I had thought about before and it's something I should be thinking about going forward. But as you said, a lot has changed coming out of the World Cup. We sort of talked about what the schedule looks like over the next few years. So a reminder, there are Nations League qualifying games that will come up in November for the U.S. That's the last round of qualifying.

The U.S. only has to win the one series, home and away, probably against a team from the Caribbean. And then the Nations League final and semifinal will be next. Next March, there's a gold cup in 2027, and the U.S. doesn't really enter World Cup qualifying until 2008 because of, we assume, 48 teams, but maybe 64 teams. It is really backloaded for the big teams in Conccaf to come in late. And inside of all of that, we still don't know about a 2028 Copa America. Could the U.S. or any Concaf team be a part of it?

Could it be here? And then, of course, the Olympics, as you mentioned, which has been a stated goal from Dan Helfrich from J.T. Batson, who have been the sort of mouthpieces and figureheads of U.S. soccer through the World Cup success. Of course, Dan Helfritz coming on this show for us to launch a few weeks ago. So let's talk about Pach's role. You mentioned it. Matt Crocker, was sporting director, helped bring Maricio Pochitino and Emma Hayes into the U.S. national team pool. He was the one who hired them. He is no longer at U.S. soccer, and no one has replaced him. but Maricio Pochitino has been re-signed as a coach.

So what do you make of what the structure is and now what POTCH steps into into this second cycle? Yeah, I think first it would be naive not to just acknowledge the timing because when you look at the grander landscape of international football, not national team football, but more international, quote, domestic football, right? The biggest clubs in the world. it was a really fascinating kind of quote unquote offseason summer summer window during the World Cup where we saw so many different clubs lay to cement the plans of managers and support staffs around specifically the Premier League and I think when we're talking about Marisa Pocciino any time that there is going to be an opening at quote unquote one of the major clubs the top six clubs in the Premier League immediately

his name's either at the top of the list or within the top three as we categorize the quality of manager and coaching staff with that experience. So I think that's important to acknowledge because I don't think a lot of people expected this second cycle. And I know there's a lot of people that kind of go back and forth and have this kind of really interesting conversation about the pros and the cons of having a manager and a group go through multiple cycles. The pros are that it gives them that base foundation of understanding of what the group is capable of and where they need to maybe tighten the screws of things that they want to see better. The cons are, hey, man, if you are not a part of his plans,

if he doesn't rate you, then you're effectively looking at your World Cup cycle career significantly minimized, if not completely washed out. So those are kind of the pros and con. When I look bigger picture, I wonder if J.T. Bastin, Cindy Parlicone, Dan, everybody involved behind the scenes Gouche are looking at what's happened with Emma Hayes and the U.S. Women's National team and how quickly she's solidified the foundation, how she's kind of changed. I don't want to say overall, overhauled the ability to identify from the younger levels into a seamless transition into the first team. But it's hard to argue that she hasn't done that with what we're seeing right now.

So I just wonder if Jesus Perez, Mickey, Tony, Jack, everyone, Gianni, Seba, Sylvia, everybody involved with Marisa Poitugino's staff is now looking at this opportunity in saying, we're going to have more control, we're going to have more of a foundational understanding of what is possible, and then how do we kind of, you know, water the seeds of all of the fruits of our labor from this last cycle, and then create a little bit more of, you know, dynamism in the dual national process, the identification of the next group, how do you have better resources with your relationships with domestic clubs in major league soccer or abroad and I think abroad's going to be at times more important specific to Olympic qualifying because I'm not trying to toot my own horn. But if you go back to the 2000

Olympics and that Bronx middle match right. Let's talk Sydney baby. Let's go back then and fast forward two years to 2002 in Korea and Japan. So there is a dynamic in play of the understanding of urgency. And right now, I think that urgency has a couple different directions to go. And probably first and foremost, I will call it the Ricardo Pepey theory is being left off a World Cup roster and the feelings that are hurt and the anger that has maybe subsided, but, you know, it still doesn't feel good. How does Marisa Pochitino now in this second cycle recover the guys? And I wrote him down, Luna, McGlynn, Aidan, Moores, Suna, Tanner, Tesman, Johnny Cardo. So all different factors, all different issues that come into play.

But how do you get these guys back on track in a moment in which probably having the best quote-unquote player pool of attacking players, the bigger, the better? Because ultimately that's what he wants, right? Commitment and competition. Yeah, the relationship with the players is interesting because it very much felt to everyone from the outside. The way he handled the roster call-ups was it's not going to be my problem. Like he didn't reach out to these players in a way that made it feel. like they're still my players. He made it feel like, okay, that's Steve Tarunzel's problem in six months. And my job right now is not to spend energy on that. It's to try and go and go as far as

I can. And I don't know, win the World Cup is probably what he would have said at the time, which we know now probably wasn't super possible. And so that part, I think, is huge for this team. Now, in the end, right, everyone's just going to say pros are pros. And like, he doesn't have to apologize to Aidan Morris because Aiden Morris has to win his spot back, right? Like, he's still the power broker, and it's on those players to come in and get something from him. Isn't that the dynamic? Yeah, you're right. I mean, I should probably throw in a guy like Jan Lucobusio. You know, there's so many, I go back to, in the infancy or the early stages of his tenure at national team camp, you could feel as though there were guys that were really,

really important in the moment, right? And obviously, we've got these data points of like, big balls and like no he's my guy and like you know like you know i never i never could have imagined the tanner testman after the roles that he played would be one of the guys that was left out and whether that's injury decision however it becomes it becomes that much more of a i don't know i don't want to say it's not a gray area isn't the right way to describe it but to your point because he didn't really assess publicly or or describe the reasons why he chose he didn't want to focus on the guys that were out. He only wanted to focus on the guys that were in. So we're still trying to understand and parse through his language of the way that he

controls the narrative in his media obligations. And everything we've heard from pretty close sources is he never did it privately either. Like he never had deep conversations with any of these players that I've heard of. And then we obviously have players further out who got an email and we're like, yeah, that's how Pott's done every camp. That's the email I've been receiving for six years. Like you're in the USM and T pool. You're going to get an email every camp. I never thought I was going to be there.

I never expected anything more. It's those ones on the edge. Yeah. And listen, some guys, he's absolutely right with the way that he handled it, meaning that he felt it was best. So he's making the right decision.

Ultimately, him and his staff. That's the way they choose to set the standards. The problem in all of this is that there's feelings involved, right? And so ultimately, you know, like when you're left out, it's like when a girlfriend breaks up with you and you're like, hold on a second, smack you out of the blue,

what did I do wrong? Like you're kind of almost wanting to know, don't ask the questions you never had answered. I was going to say, Donnie, you know, come on. One time I got called Chris and it was really awkward. Anyways, it's all of these things, I think, you're at the base.

You've got to recover the feelings of the players and let them know that the job, again, is open for competition because that's effectively where we're at. We're at Grand Zero with a good amount of knowledge. we understand who the quote unquote leaders are. And now as we kind of think about the building out, how do now, we don't have another cycle where there's this glass ceiling.

And I call that the 2017-18 qualification glass ceiling. Whereas guys like Tim Howard and guys like Michael Bradley and guys like Jermaine Jones and guys like Clint Dempsey and guys like Landon Donovan and all of these type of guys have created a standard that's so incredibly high that no one else can break through and weave their way into that group. It was only Christian that could do that. So now as we look at this next cycle, when you think about the flow balligans, when you think about the Christian Plastics, the West McKinney's, the Tyler Adams,

Tim Reams obviously gone, Chris Richards, that window right, or sorry, that ceiling right there, who is capable of either beating those guys or who are compliments to those type of players that are already, quote, unquote, embedded in the group. This is the part that fascinates me the most, even more than the guys who were on the edge and now you have to repair relationships and bring back in is the entire red flag we got out of the Burrhalter error, which was guys knew they were in. Pulisic knew they were in. Weston McKinney knew they were in and they started to take it easy. Potch came back in and reset some of that, but now they're his guys.

And we, I think, I feel from the outside, Pulisic, you know, the U.S.'s best chance to make what they could out of the 2026 World Cup rested on his shoulders. I think he got a lot of license and a lot of leadership, and there's been blowback for that from him because of the sort of struggles of performances. But now how does he build a group coming out of this without any of those players feeling like, of course, I'm the leader of this,

and of course I have my spot while still continuing to be successful on the field. That right there, I think, goes back to a couple of summers ago. And this isn't, I want to make this very clear. Policicic, the conversations around Policic will continue to be there until he's no longer a part of the U.S. Men's National Team Group because of what he's done domestically with his, with his club football and the success that he's had. There's such a standard of expectation, especially with the amount of commercial branding that we've seen around the World Cup and World

Cup qualifiers, that ultimately, if you're trying to stop the U.S. Men's National team, who do you stop? You have to start with Christian Polisic. So I can understand why there's this insane amount of pressure. I think within all of this too, to your point, how did Marisa Poitino kind of wrestle back control of the group? Every time that I was around the group, I can just tell you that the, and I know we weaponize the conversation vibes and all of those things and we use it against them when we want to use it against them. But there is a collective understanding that these guys have been together since the better part of being, what, 14, 15, 16 years old. So the moment that they go back, it's almost like an opportunity to reset cold.

culturally with their best friends, with the guys that they've grown up with, get in touch also with a little bit of Americana, and then kind of settle in and go to work. I think what we saw Pochitino a couple of summers ago heading into the Gold Cup is there's a couple non-negotiables, right? And the non-negotiables are, are you hurt? Are you injured? Are you fatigued physically or are you just looking for rest mentally? Like all of these things. And by the way, you're talking to a guy in a group that from this Argentine mentality, like for Marisa Poitino, I think you would have to, he would have to say, my leg is literally broken before he's going to turn down a national. And this is kind of the challenge, right? You're talking about cultures and you're talking about age differences where his generation would do anything to, you know, represent the crest. And now we're talking about a different generation. So there's these weird dynamics at play. Plus, I mean, listen, man, Pochitino and his staff, whether you talk about Deli Ali, you talk about Sunnoumen, you talk about Harry Kane, you talk about Kailenebap, Lina Lemaesi, Neymar, Sergio Ramos, you know, Hakimi, all the, like, he's been around

world, world, world class players. So, you know, there's a level of expectation that he has for these guys, for his non-negotiables. And I wonder how this idea looks about resetting the competitive standards and resetting the, ultimately, the national team standards. And that's part of this. of this second tenure of him and his group. And the only two examples we have that he has coached the U.S. in win now modes, which was, this wasn't development, this was we're here to win this thing,

was the Gold Cup and the World Cup. And those were the two where he cried. Do we add Nations League into that? No, I do not. And those are the two where he cried at the end inside the group. And those were the two where it felt like he, now obviously World Cup, we don't have the data point yet, where he like, looks back on, right?

Seb Burrhalter had his spot because he grinded for the team. Now, Diego Luna didn't, which a little bit different. But it sort of is our model of like, okay, when he's in those modes, he gets invested and then that investment probably is going to carry over. I wanted to hit one thing before we move it fully into players on the roster in this camp, which you mentioned that power vacuum. So right now, Marisa Puccino doesn't report up into a sporting director like Matt Crocker. He hasn't been replaced from what I've heard.

probably won't be. It'll be a bit of a restructure. I think we're kind of seeing that in the time it takes. But he was rehired by J.T. Batson, Cindy Parlo Cohn and Dan Halfridge. So what do you think his sort of existence now looks like inside of U.S. soccer? How powerful is he? Last week, we chatted with Henry Bush and all about this U.S. youth soccer thing. And people kept saying, oh, this is Pach's idea. And he was like, absolutely not. He will talk to people. He is not rebuilding youth soccer in America. But he is going to be more influential. He also doesn't have someone who has done this type of job that he's reporting into.

Yeah. I'm old enough to remember Project 2010 and Carlos Kiroche back in the day. We're going to win the whole thing. I'm also old enough to understand that whether it was Claudio Raina, Ernie Stewart, Matt Crocker, all of these, these pathways to collectively identify. a way that U.S. soccer is defined in playing their soccer from the youth level all the way to the first team level is at times lunacy because the reality is how is a kid in California going to be different than a kid in Utah? Well, he's got an extra four or five months, well,

at least three to four months on grass every single day as opposed to playing indoor. What's the difference between a kid in Florida and a kid in Jersey? Kind of the same dynamic, completely different styles of play and identification. So, yeah, I think all of these things, you know, data points, structures, the more that you get aligned. And now with U.S. soccer kind of taking back ODP and that whole infrastructure, you've got this crazy power dynamic that's happening in ownership of like U.S. soccer and MLS. So something to just keep an eye on is that kind of continues to evolve, especially now with Don Garber departing and seeing what Larry Berg is going to plan to do on the MLS side. So it's really, really fascinating to see what these next eight to ten years are going to look like in this cycle. For Mauricio, I would struggle to comprehend a world in which he's not more powerful than what he was.

I think the objective was to get in, to get the team in the best place, and to win as many games as possible and make as deep as a run as you possibly can, capture the imagination of this feel of the World Cup in the United States. That's kind of like our sports version of the Olympics, the summer Olympics. the Winter Olympics, and you're like, yeah, ski ball, like, or ski shooting, or like, whatever. Yeah, gold, Americana, all these things. I'm intrigued to see what his relationship looks like with Steve Turundalo. You know, how do they create a foundation from the 17s to the 20s, the 20s to the Olympic team, the Olympic team to the first team?

I think it's going to be incredibly important, the availability at each and every turn, that these guys have as much time as possible to spend with the group outside of their commitment to domestic football. And that's going to be a lot of relationship building with the clubs. That's going to be a lot of time face-to-face over in Europe or South America

to make sure that these guys understand the importance of this next cycle. And as this timeline of the backside of the World Cup, I'd be intrigued to really hear from Hazis Perez, you know, Pochitino's right-hand man on philosophically what their approach is going to look like because it's not just the 90 minutes between the white lines. And we can talk about tactics and shape and availability and all this stuff.

But I really, I would love to just, you know, hear them be a fly in the wall, like this really fireside type chat of what they're really trying to accomplish because we can talk about like team identity and all the things and, you know, all that. But I'm more intrigued about. how do you identify young players? How do you give young players a chance? How do you identify dual nationals and really lean into the availability? It feels like every week we're hearing like, oh, and he could play for America for a player

that's been in the championship. And then ultimately, I know, you know, you and I were joking about Evander. We talk about Hany. Guys like that, there's always been an odd pushback of guys who have come to Major League Soccer have been here for five, six, seven years, green card status, wrapping into a U.S. passport. but we've never, it doesn't feel like we've really ever identified more than a couple of guys, Lucho being the last guy that maybe said, oh, one day I'd like to play for the national team, and then that went sideways the moment he went to Dallas.

So again, how do you uncover as many stones as possible? Because I would imagine that his group wants to create the most competitive environment. And that means you've got to be, I think he was somewhere late like high 50s of players that he gave international appearances to, how do you then ramp that up to a cycle where you're saying 100, 120, that would speak volumes to U.S. soccer and MLS continuing to develop at lower levels, which is really, really important at this stage. The dual national thing on, you know, the players who play here is really interesting. I think one of the things we've seen is it takes so long to go through the process and most

players don't choose to come to MLS to start their primes that by the time you get it done, guys are 30, 31, and we always talk about it as, okay, could they be a stopgap if necessary? Is this piece the best, you know, right back in the league? And then is it Kai Wagner? And all of a sudden there's an injury. And then that guy comes in. And then the other piece of it is MLS is not a destination league for the most part for these players. So they're going to leave, which breaks the cycle, which means they don't often end up getting the green card in the process.

And then the citizenship. but also unless is spending more money than ever. And with cash first, a guy like a vendor would have been gone a year and a half ago. Now he stays in the league. Hoff Navajo stays in the league now, right? He's going to be here for five more years. And it would be interesting to see if U.S. soccer can create a process to start to talk to some of these guys about getting on a roadmap with no guarantee.

It's going to take Hoff Navajo a couple of years. Do you need them at center forward at that point? I don't know. But you have to invest the resource at some point to try and, figure out if you can even get them eligible in time. 100%. Just get them in the pool. Just get them into a camp. Just let them compete.

And some of these guys will succeed and some will maybe fail miserably. And we'll get a really clear, because that's what we do, right? We kind of like, we root for these underdogs. I use the term underdogs, but like guys that aren't there. And we're like, oh, dude, if he was there, that'd be the difference maker. And then they get there and you're like, eh, he's, he's on. But no, I think all of these, you basically, in my mind, the moment that the World Cup finishes and everyone kind of recovers and gets like two or three weeks

out, just start throwing it against the wall. Whatever sticks, just throw it against the wall. Which is what Emma Hayes has done. She had the Olympics. Yeah. And then that's what she has done since. Now she won a gold medal. So she had this gravitas coming off that, which my guess would be if we went back in time

and changed things, it wouldn't have mattered much because Emma Hayes seems to just have a level of gravitas. She operates with, which she had. Now, Potch kind of has that, right? there are circles in which the World Cup went well. There are circles in which the World Cup didn't go well. And that becomes my question now with this window. My first is, like, are they in Winnow mode to keep momentum from a fan base point of view?

If they come out and play Neil Pierre and Kevin Sullivan and they're not ready because the odds are, they're probably not fully ready and they lose to Peru and Orlando in front of 15,000 people on a Wednesday night, Does that kill all the momentum of what they've accomplished? Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot. And there's a part of me that wants to say yes. I mean, because it's obvious, right? Because the common sense answer to you is you're bang on. You want to go out and you want to have this incredible identity of non-negotiables

that you're thinking about how do you have the same intensity. How do you have this possession with purpose that you're, You're just so incredibly dominant that the opponent, like the Paraguay games. Like you effectively want that opening game against Paraguay. When you set that standard so high, that's the excitement level of, oh my God. Like when we played Australia, we used to be Australia in the World Cup. Sit back, defensive foundation, keep the game in front of you, play for transition moments, play for set pieces, play for corners.

And it didn't feel like that. It felt like we took this step forward. So there is this emotional belief that that next stage, is pure dominance. Like it doesn't matter the opponent. It should obviously does. But that's kind of like that next phase. Because I hate the idea of being front foot.

Like, oh, we got to start off on the front foot. No, you just got to compete. Like you've got to show that physicality. Put a body on somebody. Set the tone first 15 minutes. And then ultimately the margins. And that's what we, I think that's, it's the fear.

It's the insecurity. And it's the thing that we're all looking for is, okay, what's that next step? Do they have that next step? does this group who's so incredibly special collectively for this last eight years, now do they have that next step in them? Because that's what, you know, when we get past Bosnia and Herzegovina and you go into that Belgium match, and I know there's so many different variables to play.

And at someday somebody's going to write a book, somebody's going to do the interview, somebody's going to do the story of what like really transpired. I don't think it's nefarious by any means. But we all, we all, we all want to know that locker room, fly in the wall type of feel. the reality is when you watch the game you're like man like how did we not have it how did we not have it on the day how did we not how did we not after already knowing belgium after this crazy preparation of a schedule you know that gave us portugal and it gave you belgium it gave you senegal and it gave you germany that you knew that this was going to be the level the moment

that the whistle blew because people didn't have that feeling i think to your point that's what you want to see immediately out the gates that then sets the tone. Nations League, which was a horrible showing a couple of seasons ago. Gold Cup, which has probably been relegated to an identification tournament of guys that can step through, Malik Tillman, probably the perfect example, the leadership of Chris Richards. Sam Burrhalter, Diego Luna, yeah. Matt Freeze, all these things. You know, Tyler Adams, healthy in that moment.

And then going into a World Cup qualification process that always becomes a incredibly tricky. And now with a manager that hasn't really experienced going to Honduras or going to El Salvador or going to Costa Rica. Yeah. You know, these are going to be some really challenging, kind of interesting moments to see how he figures that one out. Yeah, the qualifying will be interesting because they're going to qualify. There's just too many teams now. It will be, it will be a culturally tough experience because it is. Everything you just name sucks. But the difference between going to Guatemala and going to Costa Rica, the gap of quality there exists. And what we have seen in the past is as hard as it can be and as bad as it can be for the

U.S., they're going to sneak out the results at Jamaica at Guatemala. Are they going to do so in Mexico and Costa Rica or Honduras or Panama? Maybe not. The way it'll probably end up, they may not need to, which goes into the like, when do you hit win now mode in this cycle? And I think that's the part that I have trouble putting my finger on. I mean, we've got the list of kids that we talked about a little bit on the last show, right? Kevin Sullivan, Neil Pierre are going to be at the top of that list.

Julian Hall, Audrey Mametti, probably right behind them because they lost head-to-head last week, so that's what happens. And then Xavier goes, oh, obviously, has a nice boon in that he just made his Premier League debut. Do you think all of these guys come in to this first camp? How do you introduce them into the national team pool? I think you introduce them if you think that they can help you and they're ready. and this is where I think it takes a lot of conversations. And I will gently remind everybody that they are watching everybody. Like they're scouting network.

What's been created at U.S. soccer is the eyeballs are on every single player, every single match, and they're getting immediate feedback and data reports. And then the relationships with the clubs also include not just the conversation with the coach, like how's he training, how's he feeling, where's he at mentally, you know, what's happening behind the scenes, just so. we're acutely aware that they're also talking to the team's medical staff. So they're getting the reports on literally, and there's a re and poach has been, he's whispered this in the past when he's talking about fitness levels and he's talking about performance levels. He's in direct contact

with these teams. So he's getting all of this data. They're pouring over all the data. So if you're not doing it at your club or if you're you're cutting the corners, you're smudging the lines a little bit, they are going to know. They know everything. Trust me. I mean, you know this. It's crazy. Here's what I would say.

If there is a moment where Poach and his group are looking at a player and saying, now's the time, like, we've got to get him in. We just got to get him just to experience the group. Yeah. Now's the time. But I'd also say for all the names, what about a Snyder Brunel? What about Nico Chikaris? Those type of guys as well.

So I think he's paying attention more than people. realize, I think the biggest threat to the group is the guys that were quote unquote not starters. The guys that are the starters, they're going to be good. And as long as, but you know, like you and I were just talking about if flow balligan, this deal is, you know, everything gets done and dusted and paperwork's finished and he's done his photo shoots and he's getting into training, what does that now look like? Do you leave him at Everton or do you bring him in? It's the same conversation he had with Johnny Cardoso where he left him at The Lettta, and didn't bring him in. So he's very sensitive to those because he wants guys in the best moments.

But I would see a 50-50 type of break. I want to, I think this, this roster will very quickly give us a real clear indication of what direction he's trying to go and how many, I would say, gaps in this roster that he's trying to fill immediately. Because to your point, he's not going to want to come out, you know, and not win against Peru and Chile and Mexico and Canada. Maybe those first two games are more experimental, but when it comes to that game in Phoenix against Mexico and it comes to that game against Canada and Minnesota, those screws better be, you know, as tight as possible because, you know, winning an ego is a weird conversation, you know, weird conversation at that level.

Well, there's a lot of this that is interesting. one being it's fairly unprecedented in the past to have a camp of this length because FIFA has now tried to reestablish. So rather than so many small camps with two games, you have this camp with four games. Could you split a team? Like could Bolligan come in for a week and a half, play two games and then leave? Could someone come in halfway? Probably if you did that, that would be someone who's more domestic base. So does an MLS player then come and fill that role, a Brian White or Julian Hall or someone like that?

What if you just go 36? What if you just say 36-man roster? Which is also your option. You can bring anyone you want if the club releases them into your training space and then just not have them on a game day roster for a friendly. The other thing you mentioned Steve Tarunzalo. We've been told that Maricio Pachitino was a part of the hiring process with Steve Tarunzalo as the U-23 coach for the Olympics, which of course in L.A.,

the U.S. auto qualifies for. And they have been pretty open about saying that they want to win. a medal in because how close you kind of are, you really have to win one knockout game to just get into the bronze medal game. What Emma Hayes has done is she has this rising player camp that she has done in coordination with her senior rosters. So they have a U23 group sometimes trains in the same city so that you can cross players over, other times goes and plays other games, trains in other places.

Do you bring Tarandolo in for a camp like this and have his team train alongside you? And that gives you another 20 to 30 players that you can pull into trainings, that they can learn your methodology and be around your group in a different way that's maybe less pressure than putting Kevin Sullivan on the field for a full international debut at 17 years old. Yeah, listen, I think we should be very clear that this is not just an Emma Hayes thing and it's not just some Mesa Pochititino thing. This is stuff that Clive Charles used to do with Steve Sampson heading into the 98 World Cup.

This is what Clive used to do with Bruce Serena. and the U.S. men's national team in the buildup to the Olympics in the cycle of 2002. So this is not unique. Because I don't want people to think like this has never happened. All of a sudden, this has just been discovered. The benefit of this is extraordinarily high because there's a cross-pollination. And even before the Germany match in Chicago, there was a group of the U-20, U-23, that eligibility group, where guys like Snyder Burnell then get called, you know, there's like opportunities to like,

hey, we're short a player, come on through. So there's always that that's if you, let me do a PSA really quick. If you're on the under 17s, if you're on the under 20s, if you're in the under 23 group, do not for the love of God turn down a call. Do not. Don't do it. Don't do it. Because I'm telling you, there's a difference between being hurt and there's a different,

that's different between being injured. and if you like need a break don't don't take that break now because that is going to significantly hamper the way that you're viewed and your commitment level that's going to be viewed I think the standards are going to be set so incredibly clearly from day one

that if you're like hey I need a break I need to ask for rest you're going to be Eunice Musa you're going to miss out on a World Cup like so just don't do it and by the way if you do it the youth level, that is going to then trickle into the full national team level with the way, because you're going to be viewed in a different light. You're going to be placed in a different silo.

Don't do it. That's just my PSA. I'm just my humble, humble opinion out there for the young kids. And what's helpful is most U.S. Men's National Team pool players do listen to this show. So they'll all be getting this directly. So it'll work out perfectly for them. Thanks for listening. One of the things you said is, you know, the starters are kind of in one sphere. I want to remind people because I think the turkey game throws things off. Potra's playing 14 guys at the World Cup, maybe 15 if you get there, right? You look at the Bosnia game, Pepe and Burrhalter came off the bench in the 87th minute, and Raina came in the 95th.

So when we say the starters are one thing and everyone else, that is everyone else. That's Brendan Aronson. That's Ricardo Pepe. That's Timothy Wea, who is captain at Marseille. I mean, that's, I don't know that Zendayaas has a role in the national team anymore. Austin trustee who scored at a World Cup, I have no idea what his standing is, even with Tim Riem leaving. There really are five to eight guys that are in strong space. And personally, I would look at an Alex Freeman and say, train with Villarreal, get your spot.

Like the best for our national team in the next four years is that you're a full-time starter in La Liga. I would probably say the same to most players who made transfers in this summer because get comfortable, you know, even Seth Burrhalter and Max Arfison at Middlesbrough, it's not the highest level ever. But like the best for the national team is them playing. I don't think Potch will say that. Yeah, they're going to get 60 games. Yeah. Yeah. I think Potch is going to be a, I need to smell the player.

They need to be around me. We need to build this. So I'm probably wrong and all that. That's how I would handle it, though. Is there any specific names you're looking at for this first camp coming up? Well, and really quick, just the one thing that I want to gently remind everybody about is, and this is where Pochitino might call these guys in, and I don't know, I'm spitfire in here, but I remember a conversation with Carlos Bokenegra. And when Lowe's left and signed with Ren in France, I specifically remember asking him, like, how are you handling the flight now that it's a little bit different? You know, you're not at Fulham. It's not London or the U.S. It's, you know, you're going to have to take connectors. You're going to have to take.

You're going to have to do all this. But then when you get here, you're in a recovery mode. You're flying across the world that you land. You're the captain. You've got to train. You got to set the foundation of expectation. Then you got to go execute. And you might be based in the U.S.

And you might have to go to Honduras and 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Or you're going to go to a 7 p.m. kickoff in Mexico City with heat and humidity and smog and all that stuff. But then you've got to fly all the way back. You land the next morning. You're still in recovery mode of two games and 72 hours. and I was like, what does that look like? And he goes, I'm then competing against 17-year-old and 20-year-old kids that aren't in their national team that are trying to get my spot.

And so I can't even be in recovery mode because I got to go right back into competition mode because these guys have had seven days of training under the manager. And if I want to play in the weekend, which is usually arriving on a Thursday, train on a Friday, like, I've got to be right back at it. So I also wonder if Pochitino's thinking, I've got to teach these guys that have now landed in. Europe how to deal with coming back and forth because they're not based in Vancouver. You know, now he's based in Midasbro. So just something to think about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man, go all in. Best possible group. We know Christian, Flo, Westin' Jedi, Tyler, Chris. Those are the guys. So if you be- Reminder Christian out injured right now as a recording. He was on the bench the other day. He was available. Yeah, Amarim didn't bring him on.

Eunice played 90. Back-to-back wins. as I say all that, outside of Balligan and Chris Richards, does the same guys that were the functional foundation of Qatar. So like how far are we really away from the same group of players? We're really not, we're talking about the margins. So is there another flow? Is there another Chris, a guy that maybe missed out because of injury?

And then is the man the next cycle? Who's that next group coming through with the 20s, the 23s? because I still think there's a really like who's the next Alex Freeman? I would probably make the argument that Gozo if he had that extra year would have been in that Alex Freeman conversation. So bleed him, get him chances. Let's see who can sink and swim. And if those young guys aren't ready for that full team jump, then give him to Steve Tarandolo

and let him cook with whatever, you know, with whatever he's trying to do right now. but I'm really interested to see how Gooch and J.T. in particular, supports Maricio and his staff. And is there any upcoming guys that are kind of American voices that can be integrated into this full national team, Olympic age group, U.S. under 20s, that, you know, continue just to help, just to be around, just to understand the American foundation. and then mixed with now this Argentinian flair

that Marisa Poitjino and his coaching staff have kind of brought to the national team. I think there's probably going to be a split we'll see coming into this camp. You know, there are guys, you mentioned Snyder Brunel a couple of times. I think he's probably one who's a youth national team guy. Herbert Miller getting a lot of minutes in MLS.

He's probably a youth national. Yeah, dual national. He's probably a youth national team guy. I think Peyton Miller could be a full national team guy already. He's got some things. He's special. I think he's the Alex Freeman, but that's also, I think we've got to figure out what Gozo's position is. And obviously he landed multi-million dollars.

So we'll see. But I think all of these players could make a difference already. And the question is, do you want to deal with the Bambi legs now? And when you do that, how many of them do you want around? Because, you know, if Peyton Miller makes a debut at Left Back, his life's going to be easier. if Austin trustee and Chris Richards are next to him. Yeah. And Christian Polisik's in front of him.

But that's not also what maybe you want to accomplish from this camp. So you've got to pick and choose how many of them can fit together. How many of them can help each other, but also not hurt the overall level of the group. Or the flip side, which is, let's bring all these kids in and let Western McKinney and Tyler Adams and Christian Polistic know that their spots on the table. And if Audrey Mametti's better, then it's a little. going to be his spot. Now, I don't think it'll be eight of them, which I think a lot of people are calling for. And I think that's fair because it would be fun. But it probably doesn't happen. And it's going to be interesting because the big game is going to be the Mexico game.

Right. That's the must win. The rest of this is huge opportunity. Canada, for ego. You know, the Jesse. I think that one's not must win until Jesse starts talking. Then it becomes a must win. Yeah. I mean, you know, Jess. He can't help it. He's, you know. actually was not interested in the U.S. job and he actually doesn't want to talk about it. I don't know if you have. As long as, yeah, this is what I love about. To be clear, Jesse is the exact same person he was at DC United or Chicago Fire. Like that's Jess.

And as long as you know that going in and you can just listen to the information as opposed to the way it's being delivered or the setting that it's being delivered, you're going to, you're going to acknowledge and be like, oh, okay, I can see what I understand completely. what he's saying, I actually would agree with 90% of what he's saying. And maybe the other stuff is just another 10% of complete BS. But that's the job, right? And unfortunately, what he would tell you, like, because I'm the same way, I'm like, just stop talking about Canada, stop talking about the U.S., like just spoke.

But if he's being asked the question, he's one of those guys that's going to answer it as honestly and transparent as he possibly can. But, yeah, that's why I think that one, that one becomes a barn burner because it's just going to be two teams kicking the living issue. shout of each other for the first 15 minutes. And I know there'll be frustration from people, and I feel it of, you know, they're going to play Canada and Mexico in Nations League.

If they qualify, they're going to play Canada and Mexico and Gold Cup next year. That's where the interest in the relationship with Commonwealth really pops up because UAFash Nations League. And you can't really crack into playing some of these teams because there's not really a ton of windows to do it in. The U.S. are going to be, have to be very specific

about finding those windows. Yeah. Or UEFA and Concaf go off on their own against Gianni and Ventino and you're just playing a fake World Cup only against Middle Eastern teams and European teams. Yeah, and listen, my hope, and I remember saying this to Greg Burholter on the backside of the way that they lost against Colombia out in D.C. And ahead of that Brazil game down in Orlando a couple of summers ago, I remember straight up asking about, you know,

is there a world in which these guys can bleed down in South America? And I meant that physically, mentally, whatever, spiritually. But you go get your ass kicked down there a few times in that cauldron. And there's a reason why a lot of people view conma bowl is the most difficult, you know, combative qualifying process that you can find yourself in. And we saw that in the World Cup final, right? That there's just a layer. There's a physicality.

There's a blinding. talked about it in the World Cup. Other players have talked about it about, yeah, there's a style. And how beneficial does that? I mean, even if you go, and again, I know we're talking about like, and I'm not trying to diminish El Salvador or Guatemala or Honduras or anything. But if you show up in the middle of the afternoon, you know, in your crispy white jersey and your brand new $350 cleats with, you know, machine guns surrounding the track,

that looks and feels significantly different than, you know, a warm up match or a friendly in the United States. So, you know, I think that's the one thing behind the scenes. US soccer has been doing a great job is they've been taking their teams outside of the country, the 17s and the 20s and the 23s consistently to give them kind of that battle mentality, not just, you know, stylistically, how great you can play. Which is trying to thread the needle of how do we put our team in front of fans here as much as possible?

Make money. How do we make as much money as possible while also trying to get them experience? Because I have down as one of our. topics to do over the course of this show because we have every week is should the u.s play home games anymore like should it always be about bludding this team because for as often as you put them in aliands in minnesota and bring them to st louis and all of that winning a world cup or winning a cop of america is what's going to put this team over at top i think in terms of perception yeah and what gets you closer to that i think it's playing in the netherlands and

playing in Italy and playing in France and playing in Argentina, than it is playing Argentina in Orlando. Yeah. As good as that can be, and the U.S. has that unique ability. You were at that Columbia game. It was all Columbia fans. The U.S. got blown off the field.

Oh, I was sweating through. I was getting made fun of on social because I kept, I was pitting out. Yeah, no, trust me, I was aware. It was hot, very clear. No other country can provide that, which is you could basically play away game at home, but it's still different than playing an actual game. I mean, imagine we saw that final qualifier between Italy on the road at Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Imagine that type of atmosphere. You know, like, go to Poland, you know, go to Hungary, all of those. I think, but again, go to South Korea, go to Japan. It's about the money, you moron. I mean, Georgia said that a long, long time ago. So I get it, and that's the challenge. What I was told back then was, well, we're playing the World Cup in the United States. Yeah, I get that.

Fair enough. I totally get that. But I just wonder, how do you parse through the experience and the learning moments versus kind of the ego and the finances? And that's, you know, that's the duality we find ourselves operating in 2026. We could do this forever. Luckily, we've got plenty more time to do it. By the time we get to the next show, I think we'll have a full roster. We'll break that down.

Then we're into games. So Peru, the opening game, Mexico, Chile, and Canada, the other three. So we're going to have two full weeks of coverage here on this show. We'll do it across all our soccer-wise shows of all these games. And then we've got the women's camp coming up right after that. So the U.S. against the World Cup holders in Spain and back-to-back games in October. And we've got a lot more to talk about U-20 World Cup happening. So we're having a ton of fun here.

But Dunny, appreciate you being here. Thanks for hanging out with me. Yeah, no. Appreciate the time, man. I hope you're having a blast in vacation. Me too. In the future, yeah. Awesome stuff there with Duny.

and he is, of course, going to be on the road for these four friendlies coming up, covering them with TNT, starting with the friendly against Peru in Orlando. We're going to break down the roster when it comes out here on this show. We'll have all your coverage here at Soccerwise of those games of this team. But as I mentioned off the top, the U20 World Cup on the women's side happening right now, let's talk to someone who has been there before. Michelle French was the head coach of the U20 Women's World Cup team for the U.S. twice. and of course has been and won a senior World Cup as an assistant with the U.S. women's national team. So let's dig in a little bit with her about what these players and coaches are going through right now at the U20 level,

the value of this competition, and the future of the game on the women's side in the U.S. It is Michelle French. Michelle, thanks for being here. Thanks, David. This feels like a really cool opportunity, so I'm happy to be here. And our colors are purple. So it's an easy combination between the pilots and soccer watch. anytime we can do it.

Of course, the U-20 World Cup going on right now, and you have been to two of these as the head coach on the U.S. side of things. So I wanted to ask big picture to start, besides winning, which is like always the purpose of sports, what is the goal of what a U-20 World Cup should accomplish for a group, for a player, for a federation? Other than winning, I think the experience of playing

in an international tournament that puts you in an environment where it is this pressure cooker situation of being in a situation where you could be getting into a quarterfinal game and your bag is already packed because you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know if you're going to have to change hotels. Maybe you're going to have to go again to a new city. But I think these players that have the opportunity to go are seeing themselves in a U.S. uniform, stepping up to play against a France or Spain or Japan or, you know, any of those

teams. And those experience that they're having, particularly as a U.S. player, are setting them up for the moment that they play in a World Cup with the full team. You see the cadence of a tournament. You see, and I think we kind of see it with our youth national team programs now, the common thread between them leading into the full team. just the some of the similarities in style of play, the language, how things are one, consistency within coaching staff. So I think all of those pieces, you can wrap up and just say the experience of it all, but there's so many depths to that.

But I think, yes, other than winning, just the experience of wearing the crest, representing your country and playing against other countries. This goes into my next question. which I've sort of been asking a lot of people off the record, on the record around, which is just obviously times have changed. I looked back at the rosters you put together, and I found one at the time current pro player who came to one of the tournaments, not a bad one in Lindsay Horan, no.

Absolutely, absolutely. Now Lindsay Heaps. Now there are eight NWSL players on the roster. And one of the questions I've been asking people is the value of all of that experience versus training every day at a pro level or playing a pro game in that time off. when you went through that experience with Lindsay, what was sort of the conversation of what is the value of this versus that? And how do you help a player make that decision?

Right. If I remember, Linz was with PSG at the time. And there was a conversation. And I was actually not part of it. It was more U.S. soccer kind of managing it. Having those conversations with PSG, could she be released, could she come? Interestingly enough, given this was, what was it 12? how many, ever many years ago when I was doing it,

the conversation was actually more with collegiate coaches. At the time, there were collegiate coaches and programs that didn't want to release their players to go play in a World Cup. So if you kind of, you can go back and look at those rosters and you can see some, you know, we were heavy on some programs and light on some others, whether that's because kids were making the roster or not. But in one of my World Cups, we had one of my World Cups,

So we had one university who probably would have had five or six players on our roster, not release them. And I think it creates this situation. And there's no, even when I look at the, it's now flipped to like having those conversations with NWSL club, right? The players are pulled in both directions because you're a part of this program. You have a scholarship. You're, you know, partway through your season. You feel this poll. You play a huge role.

you know, for them. And to be to be pulled out from that masterpiece of a puzzle that a coach has been put together puts them a difficult situation from a coaching staff perspective, but the player to go, well, I have my loyalties here, but also I have these aspirations and goals to play for the full team. And I know that this experience is going to help set me up for that. So we're in college. I was dealing with, you know, people are on these scholarships and we need them. And this is our national championship here. And we're going to do this.

It's now, no, you're under contract with an NWSL club. And you are a starter and we need you to be here for this, you know, playoff run or the end of the season. So I don't envy that, I mean, not only the coaching staffs, but the player that's getting pulled in both directions. Because without a doubt, you're developing whatever environment you're going to be in. but there's only one way to get that international experience at a World Cup at a youth level. And I think there's all those reasons that I said of how that experience helps them, I think is really, really valuable. And I think you can even look at the rosters that I had.

And like you said, I think we have like six, seven, eight players that played in U20 World Cup, so they're now playing at the pro level, but also have been in or out with our full team. And I think that experience played a huge piece of that. So if you were advising a player now who had the option, you would tell them, go? I plead the fifth. I would just be like, listen, I'm going to tell you, I will share with you my perspective of pros and cons. But, you know, I would just hope that this is a decision the player gets to make on their own. And I'm sure there's a little bit of pressure from both sides.

But, man, I don't envy being in that position either way. You mentioned sort of the shift now. The bulk of this roster is still at this point, college soccer players. Now there are the more NWSL players. From where things stood 10, 12 years ago to now, where do you think college soccer and maybe the highest ranks of college soccer

stand up against international players, whether it's youth academies for pro clubs or reserve teams or whatever it is that will see other players in a world. World Cup at the U-20 level. Right. Yeah, I don't, I guess kind of the way I look at is not so much stacking up. The way I look at, I remember there was a really big difference between the level that the players

that were part of our U-20 roster were playing at and the level that the Japanese players were playing at or the French players. And back then, those U-20 players on those other countries were either on the first division women's team or on their second team. So every week they were training against women. Every week they were playing against women in league games. And in comparison, and it's no slight, but it's a different situation, like I met in Seattle, Washington watching Malpue play a U-16 tournament in an ECNL game. So the nuances in general, the tactical, tactical IQ, I think the sophistication that is played and is seen by those players that are

playing in those first division, second division women's games versus at the club level are dramatically different. And you could see, yes, we had very special players on both rosters, but you could see that the experience that those other countries were getting at that time, I made a really big difference, I think, in the terms of, in the terms of a way that they played. You can go back a couple years earlier prior to when I was there when they won the U-20 World Cup with, you know, Mark and then, you know, when they won, there was a lot of infancy in the women's side of the game in other countries. So I'm not sure those players were playing in that environment yet.

And again, look at those rosters and how the success that those women have had. in their pro careers and in their national team careers. So I don't know if that really answered your question, but it's really interesting how times have changed and things have changed. And so now that we have younger players playing pro than we did in the past, we're starting to, we always talk about other countries closing the gap. We have to start closing that gap in terms of the experience that our youth players are getting to prepare them for, I think, these World Cups.

So I think the pro environment is it, like if we can just find a way to mirror and get all those two ideas together, which I think we're getting closer to, you know, it'll bode well for our youth, our youth teams in World Cups. At the college soccer level, it's what you work in every single day. What is the strength of the college game and what you're talking about? Does that endanger the college game or is there a way for all of it to exist together? No, I think, I mean, I think there are tremendous. programs all across the country that are developing outstanding players that may not even be discovered until later on in their career to play for the national team. So there have been so many examples of that. So you don't just have to be a member of the youth programs and come up through

it every single team to then be on the national team. And again, we've seen a lot of examples of that. So I firmly believe that the collegiate game does develop players. I firmly believe that there are incredible stabs across the country that, um, develop the IQ of these players to be able to step into an international environment and play. Uh, so I, I am,

I mean, I'm in it and I, I am a huge development of the development, um, within college soccer. One of the things we chat with Mark Corporean and then actually when we were off air, he mentioned this, which I never got on the interview.

So now I can bring it up here. But he, he mentioned one of those things, one of the things that you can't train really for is, being a leader. And that was one of his values of college soccer is at a young age, you get to lead. U-20 situation is similar. I'm curious as a coach, how do you handle pressure of leadership for young players when someone has to lead, but you also don't want to sort of push them off the edge where they're in a tough spot as a 19-year-old, even though they might be the leader in the group?

Like, how do you teach leadership, I guess, is what I'm asking, for players at the college soccer a U-20 level. Right. And again, this is obviously, my perspective, obviously. There is such a unique opportunity within four years that you have a player in college to, one, they come in their freshman year. And, you know, right off the bat, some personalities, we have a player, when she came in her freshman year, we're like, she will be captain for us, either her junior or senior.

You can just tell. That's the way they carry themselves, the way they speak, their work ethic, all. of those pieces. But then you see, then you also identify some players and go, man, I wonder if we really invest in her in a, you know, in a detailed way, if she could develop into one of the, into a leader by the time, you know, she's, it's her junior, senior year. And what we like to do for our program is one, we kind of develop these like, kind of these leadership groups where we've kind of have someone from each class that we think shows some sort of sign. or we feel like, hey, if we kind of give them a little bit of these tools, we think they can really step up.

I think it's our responsibility within the four years that we have them to, you start to understand their personalities. And once you do that, you start saying, okay, within our staff, we've all been leaders at some point, you know, and fortunately, like, at least here, we were all captains of our team. And so we're like, okay, what are all the things we did a little bit differently that we can tap into these players and share with them to help them become better leaders? And for some people were like, yeah, that didn't really work. Or some players were like, awesome. Like she was so quiet a freshman year, but look at her now. And so we just have kind of these really specific tools that we want to, you know, introduce to them and say we think, and get and say, and pull them aside and be like, we think you can be really good at this.

Is this something that, like, you think you want to develop into? And so, I don't know. I think it's such a cool experience and a unique opportunity to invest in players. And then also like, man, there are so many things that you can do as leader. And it's the thing everyone says, right? You can be a leader by how hard you work, by how, you know, there's people that are moms of the team. There's like so many different ways to lead. And when you can find that balance within your collegiate group, it's pretty special.

And they don't feel like, yes, you're wearing an armband, but you've developed a lot of leaders versus just one person. That's not all. Yeah, we interviewed Emery Adomis last week, and she goes from being the youngest player on a team to the leader of a team, like within one week. And it's a really cool experience, but it's also hard because you don't really have guide rails for it except for what you talked about, which is your coach's experience and what you've watched, I guess, from players around you. Absolutely. I'm curious your view right now as you go out recruiting as you watch other college science. soccer games, watch the young players in NWSL of where youth development stands overall for women's professionals or women's players in the U.S. maybe compared to where it was and where you hoped it

would be in 2026. I think there's, I think you see a lot more sophistication on the ball. I think there are players who, whether it's, again, whether it's specialization earlier, whether it's the investment in their individual development and their drive to technically get better. There's a lot of different ways to do that and there's many different paths, obviously, to be able to hone in on those things. You know, I think we see, the game has grown

at the club level in terms of, I think, what we've seen previously. I think the one thing that always jumps off a page when you're watching a player, and it's, again, not to be but it's just like their attitude, their effort, their work rate. Like, especially collegiately, like those, those are non-negotiables. Like, we don't recruit kids to teach them that.

Like, that's something that just jumps off a page. And so I think, but there are a lot of, I think, club coaches that have gotten so much more experience in terms of watching the game, seeing the game, having it be so much accessible to the players that they're coached. where now you see like kids like, oh, do you see that Trini Rodman move? Like check that out. And now they're trying it, right? Or, man, like, look at that set piece where, you know, this player screened.

And then she got in on the back post and got up where she headed it. Like I think there's so much more that these kids see now that it gets their passion and their excitement and their curiosity. And I would just say their creativity churning a little bit more than it did in the past. And I think that that has really started to kind of show itself when we go and watch these kids play. And then you add in like the celebrations. So that's definitely changed a little bit. But, you know, I think from an individual perspective, man, there are some really special players doing some really special things that we didn't see, you know, five years ago. You mentioned at that U20 level for young players, they're getting an experience to then step up to the next level.

You worked as an assistant coach with the U.S. Women's National Team at that highest level. How big is the gap between the two? Well, I will say I'm glad there's now that U-23 program that has now kind of been implemented. I think we had it previously. I think the ages were all wonky back in the day. But Emma really likes her talent ID camp. Yeah, I think it's like U-20 to the full team.

with the exception of some players is like, whoa, it is a big difference. And it can be, it is speed of play, it is physicality, it is understanding of the game, it is how you recover, how you prepare your body. Like all of it is completely different. And then I think now with that U23 program, like there is this opportunity to pull the best of the best of the 20s in with those players that are just on the cusp of making the national team or have been into a camp, but still need a little bit more work, right? And now you're not only developing relationships with your U-20 group,

and you've got players that have been with a full team, and you bring those groups together, like, that's going to be a lot of those players, whatever percentage it is, is going to be the percentage that's going to move forward to end up being on the full team. So the more consistency and synergy and relationships that can be built over that course, over that period of time, I think is so invaluable. So I think, like, that piece is so important. And I think bode really well for it.

for the U.S. moving forward. You were part of the staff in 2015 that won a women's World Cup. How often does that get mentioned on a daily basis at training? I don't even know if these kids were freaking watching it in 2015. I'm serious. Like, for real, I don't even know. But, yeah, no, I think it's crazy how, like, I can't believe how long ago that was.

I mean, it's just like, it seems like it was just yesterday. But, yeah, no, it doesn't. They don't. They don't. They don't. Well, maybe you need to bring the metal around every once in a while. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And maybe that they will really enjoy.

Yes, perhaps. Perhaps. Well, we appreciate you taking the time to chat with us. Give us a quick sort of look at what the fall feels like for you as a head coach in at the D1 level and sort of what, what the experience is like right now that you're going through. Yeah. There's so many ways I could answer that, David. There's so many ways. I think the first thing is it's, you know, we're at the period of our season where here in Portland, the leaves start to change colors.

The grass gets a little bit greener. It feels like, okay, this is really, we're really stepping into fall. I can smell the cut grass, like I'm driving, and I can hear the leaves crunching under my tires. It just has a different feel. And, you know, these first few games, you're learning a lot about your team, regardless of your opponent. and you know that you're always building to something. Who are we becoming as a program? And so I think, I mean, and I don't know if you're asking about my personal outlook,

but I just hope that we continue to take steps forward with our team. And I know that based on the scores that I've seen, and it seems like there's going to be, there's some lopsided scores, but there's also a lot of parity. We've got some programs getting upset. But at the end of the day, you look at these first games, and yes, results are important, but I'm not going to judge a team based on how they did the first month of the season, right? Let's see who they are when it comes to conference play because I think we're at a stage where conference plays has become so important to collegiate soccer.

So I'm excited. I'm excited to see kind of who starts to rise above. Well, Pacific Northwest, the heartbeat of soccer in America. And we're excited to watch it from afar. We appreciate you taking the time to chat with us and good luck this season. Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate it. Huge thank you to Michelle for taking the time to chat with me, especially with the season flying right now,

multiple games a week as the pilots get back into things. We, of course, are covering the college soccer ranks with one of our newest partners in college soccer news. So make sure to follow us on SW WOSO FC for all of your women's college soccer coverage. And then, of course, on soccer-wise, anywhere you get your socials, Instagram, YouTube, and Blue Sky for all the coverage there. And of course, big shout out to Dunny for taking the time to join us and hang out and talk a little bit of the USM&T and what's going to be coming up. We'll be back next week.

I think we'll have a roster to talk about at that point as Maricio Pocetino and his staff have to put out their group for that first game. We, of course, will continue to cover the U20 Women's World Cup and everything else going on around the games. Thank you to all of you for listening. We'll talk to you again. Very, very soon.