SoccerWise - U.S. Soccerwise with Jay DeMerit & Matt Doyle Presented by Soccer.com

Episode Date: May 14, 2026

Former USMNT defender Jay DeMerit joins David Gass to discuss the pressure, expectations, and emotions of playing in a World Cup, while Matt Doyle breaks down the latest USMNT injury concerns, roster decisions, and what to expect from Australia ahead of the 2026 World Cup group stage. Plus, discussions on Johnny Cardoso, Christian Pulisic, roster depth, and navigating an expanded 48-team tournament.00:00 World Cup Coverage Announcement02:59 Jay DeMerit on Playing in a World Cup11:05 World Cup Pressure & Player Mindset17:26 Vancouver, Canada Soccer & World Cup Buzz21:02 Whitecaps Ownership & MLS Future25:10 US & Canada World Cup Predictions31:14 USMNT Roster Questions 47:38 USMNT vs. Australia Preview

everybody welcome back to soccer wise david goss with you for what is an incredibly special episode here at soccer wise we have matt doyle coming up in a little bit we will be looking forward to our australia early preview for the world's cup we'll talk about johnny cordoso we'll talk about the roster build and with the time at a world cup now with 48 teams where do you put players who maybe aren't fit for the full games maybe have injuries and whatnot we also are talking world Cup. So when we do so, we like to talk to one of our favorites. Who else but World Cup veteran, Jay DeMert. He's one of the great stories of American soccer history. He is living in Vancouver. He was a former Vancouver White Caps captain. They will be a host to World Cup. He of course performed

for the U.S. in South Africa as well. So we're going to chat to him a little bit about what players are going through right now and what the experience is around a World Cup. But this is a special episode for one big reason. We are excited to share. Kickback Soccer. media coverage for the 2026 men's World Cup happening right here, of course, in the U.S. as the American home for the global game, we are the go-to for all your World Cup coverage and especially the U.S. men's national team as they compete on home soil. And to help us do this best, we have partnered with none other than soccer.com to present our two World Cup shows this summer, both first touch and U.S. soccer-wise.

What better way of connecting our American lens and the voice to the game than partnering with the company gearing up fans and players across the country. With this partnership, you can get a free goal club membership with the purchase of any U.S. national team jersey, just like I've got on right now, with the code kickback. The goal club is the longest running and largest soccer loyalty program in the country, providing members with a lifetime of savings and rewards on their favorite soccer gear. So you can join us for First Touch Daily,

where we will be in studio in New York all World Cup every morning featuring myself, Matt Doyle, Susanna Fuller, and many others of our guests. And we will break down the games. We'll talk about the fans, the culture, and all the special moments and stories of the Summer World Cup. And for your deep dive analysis on the U.S., we have this U.S. Soccerwise. We will have you covered throughout the summer. So join us on our regular Soccerwise crew along with special guests for weekly segments and special shows breaking down the roster reveal. predictions leading up to the World Cup and, of course,

our preview and review show happening around every single U.S. men's match day. So subscribe to First Touch and SoccerWise to stay tuned and visit soccer.com for all of your World Cup gear and to catch our shows throughout this summer. We're glad you're here with us for this World Cup. We're incredibly excited. Well, we are lucky enough now to talk to one of our favorites both on, but especially off the field. You know him from watching with the U.S. men's national team at World Cups, Cold Cups, everything else.

in the Premier League with Watford, captaining the Vancouver Whitecapson, of course, anywhere else you like to laugh and have a good time and talk about soccer. He is the one and only Jay DeMaricay. Thanks for being here. Oh, I mean, you can't beat that intro, David. So it's always good to sit here and talk shop in the best way we can.

And you sit in a unique place. You are a USM&T World Cup veteran. You are also currently living in and around a Canadian World Cup host city. So you're living this full experience this year. You know, it is truly what I love most about the game is the cultural side. And, you know, when you get it on, you get it off, you see the different cultures, both in U.S. and Canada, you know, that's the exciting part about hosting the world.

You know, like, you know, playing in the South African World Cup, even where logistics were way more difficult. You know, you saw the culture that is bred throughout those four and a half, five weeks. It's a special thing. And I just, I can't wait for soccer to get to our shores and for us to, uh, enjoy in all of those pieces of culture. It is kind of random, but you obviously played the Confed Cup in Spain. You play the game against Spain in South Africa.

You also had the World Cup. Where does South Africa sort of live in your life? Like what is that country mean to you? Have you gone back ever since? I haven't been back since. But, you know, throughout those two tournaments. And again, we probably had some of the best results we've ever had as a U.S. national team on South African shores.

So I do to hold a South Africa a very special place in my heart. You know, that was my 29, 2009 was my coming out party to the national team. You know, I sat on the bench for a few years and waited for my opportunities and finally came at the Confederation's Cup where my first three starts were Brazil, Italy, and Egypt. So talk about a baptism of fire. But, you know, that's how I kind of made my name on the national team because when you can play in those three games and then be a part of. the team that beats Spain and snaps their four-year win streak, our unbeaten streak, I should say, you know, that really did put me on the map as a U.S. national team centerback and really got me moving into that World Cup conversation. You know, as we know, we were talking about this

offline. It's like, you know, moving into that World Cup conversation, you're in the spotlight, you're part of that pool, but still, you get to that crunch time. You can only pick 23 guys. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of pressure and a lot of things that come both in the club activity throughout the lead up two now with this crunch time, which is happening right now, and how do you get there? How do you stay in that conversation? How do you stay on that 23-man roster and be a part of it? And, you know, I got to go through all those trials and tribulations, but it's certainly something that is top of mind right now. Take us into the experience then that these players are having right now. We're about a month out from the World Cup, where three, four weeks

from the roster being announced and obviously with it being a host country, it's been a little different in that these players have known this potential was there for four years. But like how often as a player are you thinking about the World Cup? And then as it gets closer,

how does it affect your everyday life? It's definitely at this point, part of your everyday life. A, because you can't get rid of people talking about it, speculating about it, you know, posting of who their best 11 is as the starting lineup for the first team against X. And so it's hard to, hard to not be a part of it.

And in a way that adds that kind of deeper pressure of like, what can I do now to make sure that I am in the conversation and therefore getting that that name on the sheet? And that is finish club strong. Like if you, if you're not at the top of your game, you will go down that pecking order. that's no doubt that you see two to three World Cup picks every year that are the super wildcards because those guys are the hot ones those are the ones that are coming off you know nine goals and 12 game finishes and that's what happened like her Gomez in our year that was him he was coming off a really hot finished his season or in the middle of his season and and and scoring a bunch of goals and bob's like you know what i need a hot goal score so i'm just going to take him him and edson and we're kind of like

the wildcard forward spots and they got them because of their form that happened to happen at that time of the year. And so it doesn't matter how much you contribute to that four-year cycle. There's a couple that are going to be the Who's Hot Now picks. And then the rest is built around literally, you know, in this case, not four years of Pachina, but like, you know, his limited experience now, he's got to use that. Plus, you know, he's got his scouts all around right now, looking at all the pool and going, okay, well, who's hot, how's their attitude, look at their body language and then he goes and says okay are they going to be good if they don't start are they it's the land and donovan theory why he wasn't picked in the yurgan thing because he thought if he picked

him you might be a disruption right not not some great ex you know world cup star that wants to help and that's the coaching decision so that's that's where in poachitino's brain he's going to be going okay who are my he'll have is probably 15 on paper done these guys have deserved it throughout the cycle these guys are are the ones I know are countable and in it. But now you got another, you know, eight or nine on that list, maybe up to 10 right now, or you'd be like, okay, let's see where these pieces fall.

And I see that that's where we're at right now in the process. One of the scary things now we're also in is this someone rolls an ankle and we're starting to look at weeks and calendars and timelines and all of that. As a player, you can't fully control it. You never want to be hurt. But it feels different when it's this four-year, once-in-a-lifetime experience. Like how do you mentally handle you got to go through and do your job while also having this risk and this danger? Yeah, you just can't think about it.

I swear that's one of those SAD's laws where if you're thinking about getting injured, you probably will. I think the idea is that kind of that notion to finish strong. I think that overpowers the fear to get hurt. In all honesty, that's the way I would look at it. I would look at it. And that's the way my mindset was at that time. you know, I was coming off a crazy eye transplant injury. So I had to show that I was fit, but I had to show that literally I was sharp enough to play at that level.

And so I just needed, I didn't need a mindset. I needed reps. You know, for me, it wasn't this ability to not believe that I could make it or that I didn't belong there. It was like, damn, I got to get fit or sharper. It's not because I can't walk into that performance mentally. Like, that wasn't my issue. My issue was actually physically, to your point, I was coming off a physical ailment that was like, oh, you know, I got to make sure I'm fit. I got to make sure I'm ready. So even in my

end of season stuff, I was doing extra fitness because I had played the front part of that year. Right. And so again, based on my situation, it was like, okay, now you got to stay fit. And so as everyone else is like, oh, finally I can get a week off before this, I got to go meet up with the team, hopefully. I'm like, I got to take that week and I got to get in the gym and keep working because I got to be fitter. So I think it's, it's a subjective conversation. But for me, in my experience, that's where it was. Instead of putting pressure on myself to, you know, get injured or live in that kind of fear, which is very easy to go into because of the noise, because of what people are talking about, because of the speculation, it's easy to go there as a player.

But for me, it was about, you know, turning the screw almost more in finishing the season, strong to give your best account. The, um, where this team sits right now, obviously your group had the unique experience of coming off confed cup. confidence, you know, a ton of hope. This group has been up and down. And I think the lack of qualifying has maybe hurt them of like, you just have these friendlies floating out there and you're trying to prove yourself and

maybe it doesn't always work. What do you make of the pressure and sort of the image of this team right now coming into this World Cup? Well, I think like like all of us, we're all on a little bit of the edge of our seats to say, okay, are we ready? Yeah. That's the first question that comes off my. And I say, are we ready in question mark?

Because it is, it is still to question. But the good thing is what I do like to see in a group like this is the majority of the group knows what they're doing now. Four years ago, we would have been worried about their experience. We would have been worried, can they walk into these big performances? We'd be worried, like, are they ready? Are they matured enough as a group? I don't ask any of those questions anymore. I just want to know which ways are going to get picked.

And then you have those couple weeks of empowerment to make sure that those picked guys go out and do what they've done before. It's not can they do it for the first time. Like we've watched this group sparingly up and down, yes, but perform when they matter, when it matters, sorry. Perform when the chips are down. Come back when the chips are down. Come together under a lot of pressure to perform. You know, I don't think we saw in the last couple games to your point. And that's, I think, some of these things beg to question.

you know but I think at this point it's just it's like a chess match I don't see you know again the core leadership group is the issue drives this bus they're set we already know those guys are coming in and all those guys are coming off good seasons contributor seasons which I always look at too it's not just a name on a sheet with a good badge it's a did they start did they contribute did they win did they lift trophies are they a part of the fabric of consistency of big soccer culture And the core of our group is. I don't ask any of those guys more questions when it comes to, are they ready to perform when the lights are on come June 12th. I got zero issues that those guys can step in and perform. Again, the issue is, are they going to be jelled enough if that adversity hits game one? Are they going to be jelled enough to make sure that we get the most out of the group? I mean, that's the big question.

But I do think that the core group is ready for that leadership step up. and I just hope that they do it because that's what we as fans and as an organization deserve. We deserve to give a good showing of our own Home World Cup. Like I hope those guys feel that pressure. I really do.

It's not something that should make you scared. It should be something that inspires you to go and perform. And that's all we ask of these players. And I think that these guys are good enough and prepared enough for that conversation. You played in some massive games before World Cup, right?

You played in Premier League, promotion games, which is considered, you know, the highest money, most expensive game in the world. You played obviously confed a cup all of that. And then as well as the individual pressure of games where you knew if I don't perform today, I'm not going to get a contract. I'm not going to get in more time, whatever. How different are all those moments from a World Cup? Like how unique is this thing to your point of like the ones that experienced in 22? How big of a shock was it that first time and how big is that experience? Yeah, I mean, I always call it the pressure of the eyeballs, you know, and it's like how many people are watching?

So if you like, if you start with the core of what goes on in the stadium, you know, you're talking anywhere between 20 and 70. Okay, there's a lot of pressure in those eyeballs from 20 to 70. 99.9% of players, that's level of played in those environments. So that's one. But now with World Cups, and this is where the magnification starts, now you got instead of a couple hundred thousand or a couple hundred million on a weekend in the premise. League, you know, you 10x that now. Now you got 2 billion watching against you, against Australia. Or you got, you know, 3 billion watching in the quarters and the semis.

Yeah. Like we didn't have that when we beat Spain. There was probably, I don't know, 20, 30, 40 million people watching the Confederations Cup semifinal. But now the scale of the eyeballs is what makes the pressurized cooker come even more. And you feel all of that as a player inside the moment? You do, you do, especially in a World Cup. Because the World Cup is where there's not 10 cameras after training, there's 30.

There's not one policeman in front of your van. There's three in a helicopter. You get to the hotel and you can't go for a walk because there's that many more people. There's that much more scale. There's that much more security. There's that much more pressure. And again, you look at all the pieces of pressure. It's not just how many people are there, it's how many people are watching.

what happens before the stadium. What do you feel on the way into it? All of those things lead up to the pressure. And then you have a nation that actually cares once every four years collectively. And that pressure is added too for us as Americans. I definitely see that and felt that myself. But in a way, if you're playing for the U.S. without that pride built into your pressure cooker and how you manage it,

then you shouldn't play for our national team in all honesty. If you're not ready to put that on, take that on and be ready to, you know, in heighten your environment that little bit more and take that pressure on, then you don't deserve to play for a national team in my opinion. But I do feel like some teams, especially like England where I played most of my career, those England players play with so much pressure. And it's only from their own fans. Like it's almost crazy that that pressure can actually succumb to your own fan base

doing these pressurized environments. You know what I mean? And it can affect performance negatively. I hope we don't do that to our team this summer. I think we need to make sure that we give them the support that they deserve. It's like what the African countries did for all of African teams at the 2010 World Cup. You go and Ghana would be playing and the whole stadium would be for Ghana. And then South Africa would play and the whole stadium would be for South Africa.

And so the idea would be the kind of smash. match that. You know, if the U.S. players, like, man, like, you got to get everyone involved, you know, and that's what I feel hopefully we do for our team instead of alleviating, you know, taking pressure and putting it on, we're alleviated and give them full support no matter what. On the other side of the border where you live, you went to help start the Vancouver white caps, which, in the MLS at least, which is a historic club and played in NASL Cups and all of that. and you've lived now in Canada for a while. How have you seen the World Cup sort of buzz around Vancouver and around Canada,

as well as the development of their team getting ready for this tournament? Well, I am a fan of the Canadian national team, one because I've played with Alfonso Davies, Russell Tyberg, you know, Terry Dunfield, a lot of these ex-Canadian internationals through the White Cap systems. And so I'm very good friends with a lot of Canadian players. And Jesse Marsh, with fellow Wisconsin. who was our assistant at the 2010 World Cup for the U.S.

He's one of the only other professional players from Wisconsin. So him and I hold a very deep route to brotherhood in that department too. And I've done a couple speaking engagements and the conference workup here with Jesse. So again, I'm a fan of North American soccer. I'm a fan of cultural growth in our sport and in the White Caps and what Canada, especially West Coast Canada, brings through this culture is it is a huge soccer knowledge, is a deep, you know, experience in the game. I think a lot of people don't realize the white caps are like one of the original franchises in the whole of North American soccer.

One of the first three teams, it's been in 1974 when, you know, the North American Soccer League started in its infancy. And I think, you know, soccer culture just like anywhere is rife in VIN. There's a lot of it. There's everywhere. There's different cultures. There's Italians. There's East Indians.

there's all sorts of different, different Asian cultures now representative in Vancouver culture. So I think that's what's making this World Cup really unique here in Vancouver. You're seeing a lot of these different ethnicities come to bat and play and join forces and doing murals with First Nations communities and doing a pickup game with said other community. And I think that's really what the World Cup is about. And I hope all of our cities are reflecting that in the culture of what people get to do. my worry, and we talked about this too, is that it's actually not happening. It's not happening to the depth that I was hoping at this point.

And again, I do think that we're going to start turning the screw and we're going to see some gas on some fires here soon, as far as what's going on, what are some cultural things outside of FIFA fan zones. I hope that there's more of it. I'm a part of one of those things up here in Vancouver. I got through a technology program that I work with, we're going to do an interactive soccer party. So we're going to have like stations, cultural seminars, workshops before and after games. So we're going to have like 12 different workshops of culture all throughout the game, music, sports, media. We're going to do like recovery zones and teach people about how to recover from games. Like all of these things are going to be part of the cultural experience that I'm building here in Vancouver.

We got four dates through four of the games that we're playing here through the seven. But I want to see as much as I possibly can. I wish I would at this point, I wish I would see much. more. I hope in the future that we're going to see more. But right now, we got to, we got to figure out some deeper ways to continue to engage in this culture that's about to hit us like a baseball bat. And I just don't think that most of us are ready. Vancouver is going to host two Canada games, right? That's correct. Yeah, the 18th and the 24th. And it's been, it's been a home for the Canadian national team for over a decade now. BC

Place has been a consistent go-to for World Cup qualifiers, for big friendlies, as well. There is questions about the future of professional soccer in Vancouver. It's obviously something you're closely tied to. What do you sort of think of as you hear these reports and rumors and everything else going on? I mean, it is a real dilemma. That's a fact. I know people from both sides of the ball here in Vancouver. It's been a real conversation for a couple of years now. Again, stadium is the biggest issue of all the issues. It's hard to create revenue. this league, especially as a Canadian team that runs at essentially a 30% loss just on exchange rate alone. You know, if you're a Canadian company, spending CAD, doing all the Canadian, and then

you're bringing up teams in USDA and 90% of the teams that come here from the States and have a rev share down there, but yet have, you know, Canadian teams get a touch of that revenue in the States because they're different entities. So Canadian teams can't get that windfall of all the other MLS. So it's almost like a self-sustaining prophecy, but yet, you know, you're under the umbrella of somebody else. So it is complicated. That's why a lot of teams in Canada have to move when they're in North American leagues.

So I do get that from the financial side of the league and we are in a very unique situation, especially in this sport. Everywhere else, if you own a team and you want to buy a player transfer somebody on or get a new owner, you can't. Like it's not a thing. The league isn't being like, Premier Leagues like, hey, man, United,

that you can't do that. You're like, hey, you're the owner. You do what you want. Here's the league structure. This is all what's all play. In the MLS, they're like, well, yeah, you want to sell. Well, cool. But there's a group from Vegas that's going to make us more money.

So we'll sell you to you guys. And well, sorry, Vancouver. We're a business. And we are an overarching decision maker as the MLS. That's so rare in how sports leads are run. But in a way, it is what it is. And so you can't be messing with that structure right now. It's just about finding the best solution.

And that is what's going on now. There's a multiple party group here in Vancouver that I've heard. are full of three different avenues of how we're going to get to that magic number of probably a couple hundred, at least not 300 million to sell on. You know, the ownership group here in Vancouver has run at a loss. And so it's not like they're making a bunch of money. And so that's the other piece that I think people really need to realize. You know, it's not like some rich owner looking for X. You know, they see that big pot of money at three, 400 mil.

But then you look at like, what's the expenditure's been since 2011? when we came into the MLS and I promise you it's in the negative. And so from our ownership group up here, I can see how they want to maybe make some moves or at least take some of that financial burden not so singularly in the ownership groups. And I think so it looks like there's some First Nations talks. There's a lot of First Nations groups that are looking to contribute. And I know by working with many First Nations cultures here and running youth programs that they use soccer as a great vehicle for education and development for their youth,

And so I think they see a huge opportunity. I've worked with First Nations groups here for 15 years since the Whitecaps inception. And they're coming to the bat, which is awesome, having some representation there. And then there's three big business worlds here in Vancouver that are basically invest in everything in this town. And so one of them is at the plate. And then I think one more from a different consortium of people, sports ownership groups would be the last. And so from what I understand, it's going to be a multitude of people that are going to have to make this thing float. With a short-term stadium deal of the government asset that takes all the money,

with a longer-term deal that Whitecaps have to own their own stadium. Because if you're going to own the team, you have to own the ticket revenue. It's the only way it makes sense. It would be wild coming out of a World Cup that's going to have two Canada games in Vancouver. And Alfonso Davies is not just the face of Canada. He was the face of the bid. he is one of the 11 best players on the planet at his position, like that we could think of a world in which the Vancouver Whitecaps don't exist anymore.

But big picture on all of this, what do you think happens on the field? What's your expectation predictions for Canada and the U.S. at the end of 2026? Good question. I think a lot of it does depend on some of these last leadership health pieces. You know, Alfonso Davis, again, being the best example of where this is from like the hierarchy of like how big of an influence do you have? on the whole environment.

And to your point, he has probably higher than, you know, I would say him and Polisik have North America pressure. Both of them have the bit most pressure because they're the leaders of the teams. And again, you're the leader of the team.

You want that pressure. You better, you will put it this way. You better accept that pressure and deal with it. I think both are very capable of doing it. I think their leadership is going to be so valuable. It's kind of like, I look at potentially the Alfonso situation.

I think it's like, looking decent that he would be all right. But that being said, you know, you've got to look at him from a deeper leadership perspective. He better be around. Worst case scenario. It's like what David Beckham did when he chores Achilles,

like a month before the World Cup in 2010. I remember him being the fieriest guy on the bench. He wasn't even in the squad, but he was there. And he was on the bench. He was using his influence for that England team. He was doing what he knew he needed to do from a leadership perspective,

whether he's playing as a number seven or he's on the bench shouting and balling and doing his thing he did from the sidelines. I hope that if Alfonso isn't in those environments, that he does step into that deeper leadership role, almost as an assistant. I hope that that's what happens if he is injured and it does go longer than expected. I hope that doesn't happen because we as fans always want to see the best players in the field. I definitely agree with that. I do like, I mean, again, I like both of these teams. in the group stage. I don't see any fear in the groups. I have tickets to the quarterfinal in Seattle, so I'm hoping that they win. And we can we can we can we can we can we can watch as a

spectator as a fan selfishly. I hope that they both do well and get to that stage where they're in a quarterfinal. That's my that's my wish for for both of the teams. But I do think that I think it's really hard in major tournaments to get to places you've never been. And if you do, you don't go very far beyond what you've done before. And so if you look at the U.S. or, you know, I think Canada winning a group or getting out of the group and maybe into like a quarterfinal world would be like by far the best result for them. Again, they're still trying to, you know, get a win at a World Cup. And so like get that, do that, win the group. out of the group and then you could get in the bonus land of the secondary and tertiary layers.

I think the U.S., again, we've been there before. So I think a quarter final is something that should be on the team sheet of goals, you know, doing something like that, getting the thing. I always believe that you should always have the confidence to get to where you've been. And then to have the, have the, the, the, the, the, like the valor to go and do something you've never done. I think that that has to be the cycle of thought in a mentality sort of perspective from those types. In my world of teamwork, that's what we always did from goal setting to each time we met up as a group. Okay, well, what is the true like long-term intention?

And then what are the short-term goals that are going to get us to that? Did we have a successful time or not? And I think that that's always the biggest thing. You know, make sure the fans go home wanting to cheer again and make sure you've done something you've never done before. Like, that's the way I look at, at those two pillars. It's going to be a huge, a huge summer. There is one small possibility, which wouldn't be great.

If the U.S. finished third in their group and went through, they could play a quarterfinal or a round of 16 in Vancouver as well, which would, I think we would just call the J. DeMaric game at that point. If the U.S. is playing a World Cup game in Vancouver. There you go. I'll be there with my shirt off with stars and stripes on me. Hey, it'll be a home game. It'll be a hope for you no matter what.

And I'm sure the players will hear you in the crowd. And I'm sure the fans will enjoy it. But Jay, always a blast to chat with you. Thank you so much for taking the time. And let's do this again soon. Love it, Dave. Thank you. Cheers, guys.

Well, thanks so much to Jay once again for taking the time. And before we get into our segment with Matt, reminder that you can visit soccer.com to score official U.S. national team and player jerseys to help you support the U.S. this summer and get a free goal club membership with the purchase of any U.S. national team jersey with the code kickback. As a reminder, the gold club is the longest running and largest soccer loyalty program in the country, providing members with a lifetime of savings and rewards on their favorite soccer gear. And we are locked in on getting you ready for

the opponents that you're going to see as well as stock in all things USM&T with the number one man in the world. Matt Doyle. So how's that feel? Well, a lot of juice. Yeah, I was not ready for that one. Now I got to deliver. Damn. Yeah. That's, that's, that's, that's, the type of manager I am. Right. You blow you off big expectations. Yeah. Challenge your players.

Everything out in public, you know, like Mike Brown saying like, cat's got to be better. And guess what? Cats been better. So clearly it's good coaching. And I could go to run. We're going to run the offense through the high post now is what you're saying. Obviously.

Top of the key. You're like, I could go your style if you want to be like, oh, the stream tastes like blood. And let's go get after it and watch the town and do everything else. That's me. I know you normally respond a little bit better to that type of stuff. But we have a lot to talk about. We're going to dig into Australia, who I think for many is one of the most, maybe the most exciting group stage opponent,

obviously a second group stage opponent that the U.S. just faced in a friendly to close out 2025. So another interesting wrinkle along with that Paraguay game. So we'll talk about what's coming up for the U.S. there. But first, we have to go into the U.S. side of news. So at the end of Monday show, we talked about players coming back from injuries and putting together some good performances. The highlight this weekend being Serginio Dest,

getting the assist on Ricardo Pepi's goal being available once again for PSV, but then the other side of things, Tanner Testman's season is finished in France. He will not play for the rest of the regular season. They say that does not put his World Cup spot in Jeopardy. Christian Pulisic, of course, did not play on the weekend with his glute injury. And then the news coming out about Johnny Cordoso, who will undergo surgery on his right ankle.

It was, quote, a traumatic injury during training last Thursday that resulted in the high grade sprain involving joint damage. And the timeline for his recovery is a little bit unknown. But everything that I'm reading, everything I'm hearing is we're talking weeks four to six. And at that point, you are pushing whether or not you'd even be available for a World Cup game and what type of form you would be in. So as this sort of news came through, what's been your reaction to and sort of what are your thoughts? I mean, obviously, you hope that the surgery goes well and that the kid comes back 100% as quickly and completely as possible. But I don't think Johnny Cardoso was ever going to be a factor for this World Cup team anyway. You know, as solid as he's been for Athletica Madrid and like in terms of badge FC, like, yeah, we have a guy who's a rotation player for Athletica Madrid.

that's pretty cool, but he's never translated that to the U.S. national team. It's never, you know, I had him out of the picture before this injury even out of the team or out of the starting lineup. Oh, out of the team. I don't think he's in the 26th. I just don't think he's played well enough for the U.S. And when he's made mistakes, they've been catastrophic, right? We all remember what happened against Turkey about a year ago. And then he ended up playing a very small role in the gold cup.

I don't think Pachino trusts him, and I don't think, like, I don't think the manager is wrong for feeling that way. Johnny has 20 plus caps. Yeah. And can you remember a single one where you were like, damn, he looked really good? Whereas, like, the guy who we're probably going to talk about

in his stead is Christian Raldon. Christian Roldan's best game in red, white and blue, came against Australia, you know, in the friendly that we're going to talk about. So I had him outside. looking in. It's a shame because like I could have been wrong. Like maybe he was on the roster. But even if he was it like I don't think he was going to play a central role. It is fascinating by itself that this is a conversation we can have like 20 years ago we were not saying this

players plays in a Champions League semifinal and they're not on the US roster. I think we need to like take a moment to accept that and that is doesn't mean that there's 26 players playing in the Champions League semifinal that are Americans and that's why he's not on the roster. but it does show, I think, the evolution of the game here, as well as the evolution of the player pool. Does it make it more frustrating then that this team isn't better? Because if you do the pure badge FC thing, right, then what, Athletico, Madrid, Juventus, AC Milan,

you know, on down the list, Crystal Palace, and who knows where, you know, Chris Richards will end up within the next 18 months and Fullum still and, you know, PSV, multiple guys with PSV. All of these great clubs in the world where Americans only rarely got to, you know, get a sniff. Now you could build a whole roster out of it. And this team doesn't feel like they're any better than the team we had in 2006 that got grouped. Yeah, I think we're going to learn a decent chunk about that. I think one of the things that's tough is like, I understand Copa America went poorly.

And some of that was madness of the moment from Timothy Weyer. Some of that was, I think things got stale. But like they haven't played a true competitive game since then. You could talk about what you want with Conccaf stuff and whatnot. But like so I just am curious to see because I think in 2022 this team showed up. A lot of the members of this team showed up big. So I am hoping to see more experienced players that have qualified. play at that level at this World Cup and that I think would spur me to say okay we've taken

steps the ability of what we can do and the way we do it has taken steps from where it is but there's not a world in which we're coming I mean 2002 they went to a quarter final and we're a penalty kickaway that should have been called from potentially going to a semi so there's not a world where this team progresses past that from like a results point of view heavily because most likely the U.S. isn't going to win the World Cup that's not a lot of like probably a world. That's probably the reality. So, and that's always going to be out there. But I do think there's a chance that we come out of this World Cup saying, okay, like the progress has been made. The pool is growing. And I've said this a million times. I don't think it's a golden

generation. I thought it was the start of a new pipeline. And the pipeline is filling in. And I think for this World Cup, everyone thought, all right, all these young players last time, now the next crop of young players will push them through. But it's hard. If you're 21 pushing out a guy who started started at a World Cup and progressing. I think maybe the Jack McGlynn of the world, who we talked about on Monday, and guys of that cohort maybe haven't taken as quick of steps as we expected. But I think over the next five years, a lot of those guys are going to be starting for good teams.

Or like Paxton Aronson and Jack McGlynn be the centerpieces of the teams they're on. And I think that will feel different. So maybe I'm pushing it down the line again, but we're only four years away, Dorel. Just four years away. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. The next one will be the big one. Now, I get what you're saying.

And look, you can't talk about this without baking into the, like, the fact that a number of our most exciting players just didn't develop or got totally derailed by injuries. Guys, like, obviously, Giorina, Eunice Moussa. Like, Eunice Moussa was my favorite player in 2022. And he is not even, like, is he in Pachitino's top 35? Right. I doubt it. Miles Robinson is not the center back that I'd hoped he'd be. And go on down the list.

Mark McKenzie even, even though he's having a really good season or just had a really good season in Ligon. He has not looked like a real difference maker starting caliber player for the national team. Matt Turner is probably a worse player than he was. And so it feels bad. It feels really, really bad right now. Then you add on the 7-2 aggregate in March. But I remind you, in November, it felt great because a lot of these young, talented players played well and played gritty and played hard. And then it felt even more fun because the played gritty played hard led to five goals instead of two goals, which is probably would have been 15 years ago in a great game.

And it would have been a grinded out in Slovenia and a one zero win where Clint Dempsey gets a goal. And like, that was fun and that was great. But I think what happened against Uruguay and Paraguay to extent felt a little bit different. Johnny, though, is an interesting one just because there's like so little athletic DNA in him. But he plays a lot for Athlete, and he plays in big games. He didn't start the second leg of the Champions League semi-final. And even when I watch him in those games, I still don't see the DNA with some of these moments. Because I think the frustration with the U.S. is he's passive to the game.

And that's in and out of possession. That's not just like, do you tackle hard? He doesn't go get it as much as you want. He doesn't progress play. and he doesn't get you out of tight spaces as often as you'd like. And so it's like, okay, well, your value is you're super clean in possession. You can play quick enough. But where that, like, affects the team feels very little.

And yet Diego Simeone, who I think is the best manager in the world, gets him on the field and sees the way he should be in there. And I think even when you watch Athlete and the easy comp is Obed Vargas, who will probably go to the World Cup with Mexico and just came over and is trying to get into the team, he progressed his place sometimes when the game. closes on him. He beats a guy 1v1. He goes in and wins the tackle you don't expect, which changes the pace of play and wins the ball back in a good spot. It's not huge game-changing

stuff where you're like, this person covers every blade of grass and destroys the field. But it is these moments that Johnny just never had. And I think there was an extent where we've had this combo of like, okay, that's fine because Tyler will go and do that stuff. And can you unleash Tyler to go do that stuff? The issue for him, especially you go back to that turkey game, and I think that's points in the bell. gym game when Tyler hasn't been there he doesn't step up in another way yeah and he has made mistakes in the stuff you're asking him for which is especially the build out stuff from deep so I don't totally disagree with you that I didn't have him super involved I didn't think he was a starter um it

probably takes a debate point off the table for Pachitino he doesn't really have to talk about it um so it's unfortunate for him because it's the worst timing as a player to have this experience and and you feel for someone like this. We're actually working on a little bit of a special that we're putting together about players who have been through this experience because it's like a one-off thing, which, you know, Olympians sort of,

of like, you build your entire life for this one event. And if an injury happens at the wrong time or something in your life happens at the wrong time, it totally throws it off. But terrible news for him, and we'll continue to follow to see, because one of the stories here, and Tom brought this up on Monday,

is the World Cup kicks off on June 10th, the U.S. send-off game, start on March 31st. If the U.S. May 31st. If the U.S. won their group, their knockout game would be on July 1st. If they got second, it would be on July 3rd. Because of the 48 teams, it's an extended group stage. So you can bring injured players with 26 players to this World Cup and allow them to get

healthy at the World Cup. But then you don't know what type of form they're going to be in. So you have a decision to make as Maricio, that's with test men that's what it's going to be some of these other guys as well miles robinson in that bucket of how close are they how close can we get them and how much flexibility do we have with the roster to you know waste the spot on this person and maybe not get a ton from yeah if it was flow balligan or christian pulisic or weston mchenny then or chris richards um and and please god let them all stay healthy

for the World Cup. Yeah, totally. If it was one of those guys, then it's no question. You take that. But with Johnny, it's, well, Aidan Morris and Christian rolled on, not to mention Tyler Adams, all do that same job and probably do it better. With Tessman, it's a little bit different.

Testament is the one, you know, deep-lying midfielder. We have really more of an eight than a six who makes the game big, who can get those wing backs, involved with a, you know, touch and then diagonal. Jack McGlynn can do it, but Jack McGlynn brings even less defensively than what Tanner Testman does. And then, you know, Seth Burhalter is the other one.

And Seth Burrhalter, I think is on the plane, right? So he was already going to be there. So it, with Tesman, it's like, okay, if he's not going to be ready until the third game of the group stage, that's still probably worth bringing. With a lot of other guys, though, and Johnny in particular, it's not. Like, he, like, Ed Morris and Christian Roldon, do that same job and have done it better for the U.S.

in games that whether they're friendlies or not, they still matter to Pachitino. And I still think he, you know, he probably rates that. Yeah. It will be a huge test for him of like what, who are those players that he needs in there, whether they're injured or not, as well then of what's the flexibility you're getting in other spots from guys on the roster. to fill in. One of the people we've talked about is like Jedi probably doesn't have 90 minutes in him three straight times in the group stage into the knockouts. Desk can play left back. Waya actually played left back in this Australia game that I watched back earlier and was fine there. Obviously Arfston's a part of this. So then it's how many pieces do you need of depth in each of these roles

to fill in for some of these guys that you're not sure about one of the convos on center forward has been, Hadji Wright's probably the replacement for Baligan. Then we started to talking about like well late game guys all of that but if one of those players picks up a knock and is coming in whoever else is on the roster at center forward is the backup starter at that point so there's all these elements i would be shocked if anyone started all three games of the group stage outside of the goalkeeper huh i will say that because wow in saying that you're locked in starters right now are well sorry chris richards and a goalkeeper because i don't think you start Tyler Adams three times if you can avoid it.

And that's going to be predicated on results. If you get six points, then no matter what happens with Turkey, no matter what's up in the air, I don't know that you start Tyler Adams again. Then it would be on Pulisic and probably McKenny, right? That sounds right. Because again, I wouldn't do it with Jedi. I like enough of the right backs or right wing backs to start multiple of them. So it really would fall on those guys.

And I mean, you would hope Balligan, right? You would hope that Balligan scores goals in the first two games. And then Pachachino's like, well, he's hot. Yeah, I got to keep his confidence up. I'll start him the third game and take him off at the 60 minute mark, no matter what the score is. But, Dave, you know this. Managers and players don't necessarily think this way. Players get pissed off when they're not starting.

They get pissed off if they're subbed out. Managers are just as likely to think, hey, this thing worked in, the first 90 and it worked in the second. Let's keep it together. And the most important thing is the next game. Yeah. Yep. Even if you've already qualified.

We've seen managers run their guys into the ground, just not thinking strategically about that. And like you and I take it for granted that everybody thinks clearly in that way. But it's like I think it's it's more rare than it is common for one. And for two, the thing that you and I don't have insight into. and that it's always good to talk to a guy who's been in the locker room, like a Josie Altador, right? Is how do you keep a locker room together?

How do you get a player of that caliber to buy into, hey, for the good of the team and for the good of your health? Yeah. You need to not be a 90-minute player for us every single game in this World Cup. Because look, man, like you said, this is a wanted a lifetime opportunity for every single one of these players and they want to maximize it. And that means being on the pitch as often as possible. And it's crushing if you're not out there.

So that is another confounding factor to throw into all of this as we project out, well, oh, 90 minutes here, 270 for Richards and blah, blah, blah. It's like it doesn't, I don't think it really works like that. Yeah. And I'm sure there is an element for Christian of like this is my home world cup. I'm in the cover of Time magazine. like I need to be in the starting lineup. I would pray that there is enough information in the room of data and all that stuff to be like you will get your opportunities.

We don't want to put you under risk. Take that for data. And we're adding another game no matter what, right? Round of 32, an addition. And that is a knockout game. I think the U.S. is obviously fairly fortunate in that two games in SoFi and a game in Seattle. the weather probably is going to be fairly favorable for the U.S. compared to many of the teams.

So that part is a little bit less of a factor. But let's stick into the Seattle game. June 19th, the U.S. will kick off against Australia. So what we did last week with Paraguay, we'll do it next week with Turkey as well. A little background on the team. Talk about them a bit. Talk a little bit about how they play,

how it affects the U.S. going forward. People will be very familiar as they were with Paraguay with Australia. Because last October, the U.S. and Australia played. It was a two-one win for the U.S. at the Colorado Rapid Stadium, Dick's Sporting Good Park. Just had to make sure my corporate connection was in there somewhere nice and deep. So the Aussies were at the 2022 World Cup. It was a really successful tournament for them. Got out of the group stage, really pushed Argentina in the round of 16.

I think there was a lot of pride with the way they went down against the champions. And for this Australian team, they followed. that up with an underwhelming Asian Cup. So 2023, AFC Asian Cup, they only made it to the quarterfinals. Out of the group state, they beat Indonesia and then they lost to a South Korea team that went on to fire their manager as well. So that's how bad that quarterfinal game was. They lost an extra time. Off the back of that, Tony Popovich took over in 2024. So 58 caps for Australia as a player, including what's considered the Australian Golden Generation that helped qualify them back to the World Cup in 2006 and get out of the group stage.

He was injured midway through that group stage, but like, man, Australian breaking leg, center back, hell yes. He eventually was captain of Crystal Palace as a player. And then he went back to Australia to finish off his career and then start his coaching career. So he started as an assistant in the A league and then back at his Crystal Palace as an assistant. And then as a head manager back in 2012. So 14 years as a manager himself. He coached in Australia at multiple clubs.

He has coached in Turkey. He has coached in Greece. And now this is his first chance with the national team. This is from Wikipedia. I had to read this because it's just such good soccer. On October 1st, 2017, Popovich made a shock announcement that he resigned from Western Sydney Wanderers to coach Turkish Super League club Kropicspor. It came less than a week out from the start of the 2017-18.

a league season. After nine games on December 15th, he was sacked by the club. He was owed 1.4 million in Australian dollars in compensation. The club's entire boardroom quit during his time at the club. And after he left, the club went into financial administration, began a relegation for your fall, and were ultimately dissolved in the length 22. I read that paragraph. I was like, this is the most non-top five league soccer experience on the planet. He clearly got paid a bag to quit a job

in a really bad spot. He got paid a bag because the club was poorly run. He left. The club fell apart and then the rest of it was history. Yeah,

I wonder if he ever got that 1.4 million Ozzy die. I'm going to guess no. I'm going to guess no as well. I'm going to guess he appreciated getting his password and getting back out of the country

so he could go back to Australia. He proceeded to be head coach for two A league teams and then, of course, as one does. He ended up coaching for half a season in Greece. under a Greek-Australian owner who bought Zanthi and actually was fifth in the league when he left. So has a pretty good resume.

First time with the national team. He has a lot to juggle with this team. So the A-League final is this week. It's like May 15th. So what Australia has done is they've called players into a camp in Sarasota, Florida. Shout out to Sarasota. If they need spots, I got a great spot. You can get a grouper sandwich and a corona on the water.

It's one of the best experiences. they have 10 players at IMGA, my assumption is there, which is mainly players from the A-League who have already been eliminated to keep them fresh. And then a few players from the championship, like Harry Souter, who is a huge part of their team at the 2022 World Cup, they are all training as a group. They are continuing to add to that group as players' seasons end. Then as a team, they will travel to L.A. They will be based out of California. They will play a set of send-off friendlies, whatever, phrase you want to use pre-world cup friendlies against Mexico at the Rose Bowl, which is probably as good a game as you can get from like a pressure experience. Then they will play Switzerland and San

Diego. And then of course, they will be in California in the Bay Area for their group stage games as well as against the U.S. in Seattle. So for Australia coming into this, it's been a good run in March. So they went back to Australia for their last two, those I guess are their send-off games. which were part of the FIFA series now they've created, where, like, you play teams of equal quality from other federations, so they all get to meet each other. Everyone gets to, like, play games. There's, like, name tags and stuff.

They beat Cameroon 1-0, and they beat Curisouth 5-1. So not a bad window to have, I will say, from watching large segments of this game, I think some of your experience that you had at the beginning of this segment about the U.S., Australian fans feel about this game. Like, it was not packed for a last chance to see your team, and this was their soccer specific stadiums, not like playing in the MCG

and the biggest building possible where the women for the Asian Cup final this year had 83,000 fans at the final in which they lost in Japan, which they need to stop doing when they get 80,000 fans in a building. But that's another thing. This game was probably somewhere around 16 to 17,000

and the building could have held more. And I do think part of that is the reality of where their pool stands, which is there are young promising players who are starting to find their feet in Europe, which I think there's some excitement around, but they're not proven commodities and knowns. And then there's a lot of experienced players across,

whether it's the A-League or just like a weird collection of European teams. There are players playing in the Spanish 2nd Division, in Poland, for Viking, in Belgium, across Greece. In MLS. A lot of players in MLS. And all of those players are part of this huge pool for Tony Popovich that he has up until yesterday stated is not closed. He has said, coming into this pre-World Cup camp,

the door is open, including calling up two players he has never capped before to this early camp for them to train for him to learn a little bit more in, about including Daniel Benny, who has dual national, which might be part of this, of trying to get him in the group. But it shows, I think,

where Australia sits overall in their own fan base, as well as a group coming into this. It's a little surprising to me, right? Because what this team did in 2025 to qualify, right? Four straight wins in Asian qualifiers, including big ones over Japan and then at Saudi Arabia to close it out, if I remember correctly, and how hard they played.

Like this is a team, and then they brought that to the friendlies as well. We saw it against the U.S. Like that was, you know, there was a lot of machetes, man. That was a tough. tough game and you would think that fans would latch onto that experience but i or that identity um because it it seemed just from afar it seemed so easy to root for to be like okay here's our guys

they're not going to win the world cup but they're going to you know take someone down along the way and that is going to be progress but i don't i don't know that um i don't know that if that's the way fans of the international game behave anymore. Yeah. And I think that, you know, a lot of fans just like rooting for the biggest players and the biggest teams. And that's, you know, so when you get the chance to put your team in a soccer specific stadium, you get 16,000 people in the, in the audience instead of, you know, filling it up. Now, part of it as well, and I don't know this, but I suspect that maybe the U.S. isn't the only federation that overpriced tickets for friendlies.

You know, maybe there's, they have MBAs in Australia too. So that could also be playing a role. There's like a ton of stuff going on. There is like, I think a lot of people will be familiar with images coming out of the downtown arts district in Melbourne where there are these like huge watch parties. And Melbourne had said as a city that they actually weren't going to do them this year. So then the Australian Federation was like trying to push back publicly and privately, but they don't actually fund it or have control over it.

And so that's been like a whole story, I think, to go along with the support where it stands, where it is. But I do think that this is, again, another fan base where you had a golden generation, which had a breakthrough that you felt was impossible. There's 2006 for the U.S. more 94 to 02. And then you've had a lot of investment in the game, not as much as we've seen in a Canada or a U.S., but a growth of a professional league on the men's and women's side, pipelines that were created,

developmental situations for players who now can potentially get into a European club at a younger age or play pro minutes in Australia at a younger age. And it feels like there is a block there to progress past that. And so then I think you start to see it. Now, we interviewed Milo Stegeneck, who played NEMLS, who is probably going to be a starter for this team, unsure. He is one of like 10 centerbacks who will start for this team.

off and on. And he's drooling over the idea of being the underdog. Like he, the guys inside the team and Tony Popovich, I think the same, they relish the reality of where they sit still. And that's where we talked about it a bit with Paraguay. That's where this team is going to be super comfortable in the experience they go into. As you said, in that USA friendly, like, it was a friendly. They injured Christian Pulisic. Within three minutes of that, they took out James Sands on the side. sideline. And Chris Richards is losing his mind as captain and just a human being experiencing a friendly that there's no card shown for those two fouls combined. And then there's a third one

by Aiden O'Neill before halftime again that takes out another U.S. player, no injury. But, and there's like, like Australia's enjoying it. Like they're there for it. It's the experience they want. And I think all of that sets up to Popovich's comments coming out of the draw, which is like, happy. Like, we're happy to be in a group with the hosts. If I was Australia, I'd look at it and say, I think Mexico is the hardest place to play because of altitude, because of the experience. I think Canada is the best team of the three hosts. And I'd rather avoid Argentina and France and play the U.S. So I think Australia feels like they sit in a pretty comfortable spot coming into this game of they'll be the underdogs. They can go close to toe to toe with all the teams

in this group and I think they're the most interesting team in this group because I think they're sort of going to swing where the points stand. So I think they're the least interesting team because of how they play and they are they are well they are the swing team right like if Australia is able to drag the US in Turkey in particular down into the mud with them then they could beat anyone. They're not going to be able to just go out there and outplay them so you change what the conversation is. One note, the little center forward who I think laid on one of the nasty tackles, I think the one on Sands.

Di Agostino. Yeah, he's out, right? He tore his ACL. He gave the U.S. fits. So he tore his ACL. I think he is done for the year. And I think Jackson Irvine's also pushing against some injuries trying to make the team. He's in a relegation battle at St. Pauli.

He's been a huge piece of this team. in central midfield. But on the swing point, I just will throw out there. Last World Cup, Australia loses 4-1 to France in the first game. They beat Tunisia 1-0, and then they beat Denmark 1-0.

And the swing there is, Denmark finishes on one point and gets eliminated. And that's, I think if you've gone into the group saying, I think on the last day, Tunisia, Denmark, and Australia will all have a shot to go through

and Denmark will obviously do it. Australia steps up. They get Denmark in the mud. They score on a set piece. And that's what swings the entire group. Now with three teams is a little bit different. But I will say this. In watching them, I watched two of their games,

watch some clips from some other stuff. It's a 523, 532, however you want to see it. The big difference for them being one of the wingbacks being more of a natural centerback or being like a true attacking wingback, it's a more aggressive shape than I kind of remembered. The pressing triggers are the ones you'd expect. It's anytime the ball's on the sideline, they close hard. Anytime you turn to face back towards your own goal, they close hard.

And if they can cut the field in half, then they're going to try and suffocate you and win it back. There is a little more soccer in them when they win it back than I also remember of like they try to connect a first pass close. They try and get into feet. Aiden O'Neill is central to everything they do. We watch him week and a week out with NYCFC. He's been good, not great. And I think that's kind of where the ceiling a lot of this team falls. And that's, look, this.

This is, Aiden O'Neill is central to everything they do, right? And if the U.S., this golden generation that we have, can't beat a team like that at home in the World Cup, in the group state, like, then it's hard not to look at everything that's been built since Coova as a failure. So like the U.S. have to go out there and they have to understand that they're going to try, like Australia is going to try to drag them into the mud

and the U.S. is going to have to take a beating physically, but the way to beat this team is to outplay them. You can do that. You should be able to do that. The other thing we should know, no Patrick Yazbeck most likely. It seems like he's out for the World Cup. And Yazbeck is that type of hard-nosed player,

but there's more to him in terms of his off-ball movement than the other guys that I've seen in Central Midfield from Australia. he's very clever about when to release and create those box overloads. It's a force magnifier for Nashville at times this year. And it would have been a huge factor with this team because the biggest piece of the attack is the wingbacks. Jordan Boss is the best talent or the most exciting piece coming into this. 23-year-old left wingback has started 27 games for Feinord this year, has seven assists in the league, scored the goal against the U.S.

and that weird throw-in that got knocked up, then he picks up. But Yazbek making runs behind a center forward, which is probably going to be this young guy, Motore, who went to Norwich on loan in January and has scored 10 goals in championship coming on loan, just 21 years old. So I think Yazbek would have been, okay, this is some game-breaking ability

that doesn't exist in this team otherwise, and he's a massive loss for them. But in saying that, with the wingbacks being the biggest attacking piece of this team, how does the U.S. outplay them? Because I think the obvious answer to many people is like, not only you're going to start Dest in this game, maybe it's an Arfston game if it's not, is it a Jedi at the elbow back in Arfston,

or is it just Jedi, whatever, the wingback's got to be high, you've got to have numbers in the attack, all of that. It does leave you exposed to like the one big threat from this team. Yeah, it does, but if a team's playing with wingbacks, then you can overload and, you know, triangles out wide and get behind the wingbacks, pull out their center back, and then you have multiple runners in the box.

Like that's how you beat a team that plays with wingbacks. That's been the recipe for 40 years. And the US should know that. And I like you you have superior skill at virtually every position and you have to make that skill work for you. I would expect this to be a Sergenio desk game because of his ability to play through that kind of pressure on the sideline and his ability to draw fouls. Yeah. You draw fouls. good spots and hopefully the service is good and hopefully, you know, whether it's first

phase, second phase, make the set pieces count, put them under pressure, make them play from behind, make them take risks with how high they draw their line and what their pressing triggers actually are. It is, it's going to be interesting to see where this roster falls for Australia. As I said, there are a lot of options. A lot of them are similar. So what Tony Popovich is choosing out of all of them, is he going to go more experience? Does he go a little bit younger? Does he go untested? Does he go known quantity? And then inside of all of that, then, what are those players capable of doing? And again, with the three games in the group, what is their matchups?

If Jackson Irvine is only available for 120 minutes in the group stage, where do they use those players? Because my guess would be opening game against Paraguay is the biggest game for Australia. If you get three points there, my assumption is anyone who gets three points is probably into the knockouts. Even if you're not, if you get three points in the opening game, you are one point away from locking up at worst. the third place spot. So then you can play for ties after that. And for Australia, I would say that's the game where they should feel favorites.

Where in the other two against the U.S. and Turkey, I don't think they'll be intimidated. But the obvious assumption is that they will not be the favorites against those teams with the high level quality that they have. The other wingback for them, Jacob Italiano, I don't know if that's three games or if that's Tom putting his body in front of that player for the rest of his life.

But I just wanted to throw that one out there as well. So June 19th, this, Let's mention one more player. Irankunda, the little winger. Yeah, Nestor. He's an impressive young player. Honestly, I think one of the best young attackers in this World Cup. And if anybody is just going to take nothing and turning into a backbreaking goal against the U.S.

in this game, it's this kid. We talked with Milo Steggeneck about him. And he sort of talked about watching his development and what he's become and how. quickly he's landed. So he's 20 years old. He's playing with Watford. Um, he scored in the last window, uh, in the 5-1 win. Uh, so he's shown some like real talent. Normally plays, I guess you'd say out on the left side, um, for them. The other player they're really excited about from a young side is, um, a centerback in, uh, Circuiti, who's playing already with, uh, Palermo and it, sorry, Parma. I always do that with those two teams. Very different, very different parts of

Italy. Yeah, but like, come on, it's over there. It's not my problem. At 22 years old, he was, he's already captained Australia under Popovich at centerback, the position he played. So there is a lot of excitement. Do they expect Lucas Harrington to make this team? He has started only in this year. So for him at 19, he is trying to make this team late. Kai Trendwin has started for this team as well. So a lot of the MLS guys outside of Archie Goodwin, I think, are going to be a part of this group. And I think, Harrington, similar to Circuti, are guys where both the threat on set pieces is massive. Obviously, Harry Souter, that's a huge part of what he's capable of, but then their ability to, like, cover in space and defend.

That's where I think this Australia team's fascinating because there are young pieces where you're, like, really excited about. We know, we know development's not linear. Not all these guys are going to come in to the 2030. As U.S. vint, we know that very, very well. Hey, World Cup starter, Josh Sargent, looking forward to his performance this summer. Jesus Ferreira isn't even a DP anymore in Major League Soccer. And that's like the low end of some of this.

Joe Scali, who knows where he goes and lawyer hands up? Where is Alex Freeman in four years? No one knows. But this is going to be a big game at the World Cup, especially right in the middle of the group stage. We will have all your coverage here, as always, at soccer-wise. We're going to be doing our USM&T breakdowns and previews throughout the month leading up to the World Cup.

We will be at the send-off game in Chicago against Joe. Germany. So we're looking to have some fun events around that. We're going to be doing some reaction shows to some of the big games as well. And of course, once we get to the World Cup, we will have all of your coverage. So as always, Doyle, it's a pleasure and we'll do it again soon. You bet. Well, thank you once again to both Jay and Matt for taking the time to chat with us. And reminder, we are going to be doing our U.S. soccer-wise segments every single week going forward. And then once the roster reveals starts, we will have special episodes just around the U.S. team games. There has been some up and down with this team. I think you heard it from both of them,

but there is excitement. The chance for something that has never been done before, the chance for something special this summer, and we want to be here and we want to be the place for all of you to enjoy thinking about this team, enjoying this team, talking about it, stressing about it, and then, of course, we're hoping to talk about some big-time victors. Thank you to all of you for listening, and we'll talk to you again very, very soon.