SoccerWise - USOC Final Preview w/Dan Lovitz(Nashville SC), Philly Lock In Shield, Red Bull Playoff Streak Ends & Western Conference Playoff Race

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

It feels like MLS after dark nowadays from the moment the ball kicks each weekend. Tom & David log in to help us all breath through all the chaos. They hit on the all the big notes from PHI seemingly clinching the clubs 2nd ever Supporters Shield to NYCFC extinguishing their rival Reb Bulls record playoff streak plus San Jose emerging in the west playoff spot but FC Dallas charging hard. Then the guys talk about the keys for the upcoming USOC final, and most importantly they talk to Nashville SC original Daniel Lovitz about the upcoming final, potential Tennessee parties & their special season so far.9:40 Philly Solidify Shield As CIN, SD, VAN, & MIA Falter30:30 Red Bull Historic Playoff Streak Ends & What Comes Next41:30 Can MLS Teams Win Without 3 DPs46:30 Setting Up The West Conference Playoff Race52:20 Coaching Worries In Salt Lake?56:30 USOC Final Preview1:06:04 Dan Lovitz Interview Nashville SC

What's up, everybody, welcome back to SakaWise, David Goss and Tommy Scoops with you. I am unsure if we are going to live right now to YouTube. So there's a pretty good question mark out there. It seems like actually we may be. I clicked live, then I clicked stop, then I clicked live again. And you are telling me with a thumbs up that we're like, Tom, I'm talking. I'm on. You don't have to tell me to start going.

I'm saying we're live. So for the podcast listeners, the first 40 seconds of this podcast is me and you going back and forth. Oh, we live? I don't know. I think we've been getting messages from people on the podcast asking for more time in which we ask if we're going live. So I was trying to provide that to all of them, but you shut me down. You cut me out there and now we move on. I demand excellence.

You too. I'm just trying to look what's best for you. perfection in every aspect of the game you drop the ball you run a mile you fumble the ball i break my foot off in your john brown hind part and then you will run a mile ball security is job security brother yeah absolutely we are our new yorkman diet nice we are job insecure ourselves today but we've got a lot to do uh we have a lot to talk about we have a shield race that may be done philadelphia may have done the deed it might be over then I don't know, made, somehow made DC United's year worse, and at the same time, every single thing went their way.

So we're going to talk about that coming up. What happened to all the teams around them? We are going to talk about the New York Red Bulls, who it looks like, are not going to go to the postseason for the first time in Red Bull arena's history, otherwise known as sports illustrated stadium. That one's just for you. We'll talk about the Western Conference playoff race, which took a weird turn as well. and we will talk about the U.S. Open Cup, a tournament maybe, that is our favorite here at soccer-wise and kickback. We have an interview with Dan Lovitz starting left back and Nashville SC original, previewing the game, talking about the season that is.

We talked about the meat grinder, that is the Eastern Conference. They are on, I believe it's 43 points right now, which last year would have finished fourth in the east, and they're currently sitting in sixth with the chance. chance they could drop still to eighth or move all the way up to third like it is wild uh so we talked all about that as well as what it'll be like in austin what it means to the club and everything if you're watching live or you're watching on youtube go to the podcast feed for that interview and if you're listening here you can just keep listening and then we'll just start talking and that's what will happen um top it has been a long weekend for me how are you doing i want to no no

I don't know. How are you? How many baseball games did you watch? How many baseball games did you go to? What were you thinking when the month's long meltdown? Just give me everything. I don't even have a good question. Just go. I thought we were going to get through without this. I thought maybe we'd just sneak by. Yeah, so I'm a Mets fan, and the Mets came and played in Miami where I live now this weekend in a series in which if they won all three games, they made the playoffs. So they lost on Friday. And then they needed Cincinnati to lose on Sunday for them to make the playoffs. And then Cincinnati lost on Sunday. But there was a little wrinkle in there, which was the Mets also had to win.

And that is an unaskable thing to do of a professional baseball team that is paid over $340 million collectively for their salaries to play a sport and to try and play it at any decent level. So I went to the game on Friday night in which we were in a situation where if we were, went out. We control our own destiny. They scored two runs in the first. I was there on time. I'm singing my girl to Francisco Lindor. I'm feeling it. This is my building. I own Lone Depot Stadium. All this stuff. And then fifth inning, Carlos Mendoza, Tinkerbot comes on out. He's got to change things. He's got to make sure to get the bullpen in, treat everything. It's game seven of the World Series. It all blew up in their face. From that moment on, I didn't go to the Saturday game and I went to the Sunday game. So the Mets in 17 innings after that first

inning that I watched scored zero runs and lost both games. But on Saturday when I didn't go, they won 5-0 or 6-0. It was somehow the best pitching performance of the second half of the year and the best hitting performance and I was not there for it. Now, I would like everyone to know that I had no intention of going on Sunday because I understood the evil inside of me that I carried to the stadium but it was Bark at the Park

and my wife and her co-workers on the final day of the season that's what happens we're near the Miami Marlins that's because are they trying to juice numbers because the animals have four legs you get to count them as two pretty much pretty much

anything gets someone in the building which is what I told the guy sitting three rows in front of me who's heckling the Mets straight out the gate and he's like Mollins Marlins, and it's like, Marlins, what? You guys been in the postseason in a decade?

Do you guys even have seven professional baseball players on this team? So we had already bought tickets, which I was unaware of. So we went on Sunday again. Making so many deals, bro. Yeah, we went on Sunday again, and we sat in the outfield, and we watched Payne. And it was like, I was stupid. I went, I had the stream up for the Reds game on my phone. Because I'm like, I got it.

No. I turned to them and I said, if the Brewers score, because the Reds were playing the Brewers, you're going to hear this place go nuts because everyone's a Mets fan. No, like, they said it was the three highest attended games of the season. Like, it's all Mets fans. No one made a peep because everyone knew it didn't freaking matter. The Brewers came from behind to win the game. It was so painful.

And it's like, they got shut at. I mean, it's everything. And you know it's coming. and it still hurts. I don't understand that. I don't understand how that part, like... Beauty sports, brother. After it ended, I go, that's exactly how I thought it was going to go.

And then she was like, okay, cool. So you're fine. I was like, no. I am so depressed right now. I have no idea what to do. I made us walk home. It's like a 45-minute walk. I was like, I need to sweat all of this out.

So I would say for Columbus fans, for Red Bull fans, who else would go in there? Maybe RSL fans, probably Houston fans, definitely Cincinnati and San Diego in this exact moment. I know exactly how you feel. It is what the line that I do love is the reason that sports fandom is unfair is because you're a fanatic and you're not a customer. I can't turn around and be like, you know what? The Mets suck at this. So I won't care anymore.

I'm going to take my money elsewhere. I'm going to be a fan of someone else. That is not an option. But, Nick's Abu Dhabi preseason game, October 2nd, get ready. Get rid of their Bing, Bung, buddy. Hope Springs Eternal. Get ready. Oh, my God.

If the Jets win Monday Night Football in Miami tonight, by the way, I will be more upset. That one New York team won, and it was the one that has no shot. You're leaving. And also, the Mets had 162 that could have won. I don't care about the one for the Jets. But you don't get to trade them around. You don't get to move them. Does that make you feel better, Tom?

I enjoyed every second of that. Great. Did that make you feel better? I felt catharting. I got WFAN was lit up with cars. Oh, my God. I didn't even, I didn't even fully... Fire manager, back in my day,

we had threw a starter out there for eight innings. Hey, hey, yeah, Pedro Martinez. He goes out there, gives you eight innings and ten Ks. Where did this go? Where's the baseball I grew up with? All these analytics, all these shifts. What are we doing? Cross Mendoza.

What are you doing? Listen. Uncle Stevie, make something happen. here. None of these guys are ballplayers anymore. No one's a ball player. Duke Snyder. Nobody knows the fundamentals.

Wait, back in by, that guy, that guy was a ball player. We ran the bases. We played hard. We slid into the catcher. Now these guys, what are they doing? They don't hit off a T anymore. They do virtual reality. I will bet you money, someone called up at some point last night and goes,

didn't even see them bunt. Just get guys on tape. Why don't you bunt them over? Why are you not even, you don't even care? You don't even care. Yeah, it's, uh, It's been a tough. Someone sent me a Mike Francesica club.

I'm like, I'm not going to watch this. And then you did. It was fine. It was actually one of the better things he's ever said, because he always trashes my teams. So it's like when you want that, you know,

it's like having an evil person that you face at an evil, right? Like in, what is it? Jurassic Park when like the Tyrannosaurus Rex fights the bigger one. And you're like, well, now I'm on that one's team. So I'm in favor of this.

That's kind of like what it's like. Should we get to? So should we start on the sad stuff then in MLS? No, we should start on the happy. stuff we should go shield first we don't have to go there's a lot of sad red bull balls meds fans oh my god i was in the i was in the reddit pages

by the way and um i don't know maybe i don't comment as often as i should reddit's like the best place besides our discord to like experience major league soccer uh the people who run the mLS are the best people on all of reddit is like the best now that i'm in other ones i'm like oh this is like the highest quality one that there is uh and then i will dig into team ones because i like know what people are talking about and experience and be involved in it.

It's on the ground, Caput. And, yeah. And one of the Red Bull Post was, like, all depression, and then ended with, I'm also a Mets fan. So I'm coming out of this, like, pretty rough. Also, shout out to Eric Gonzalez, is one of our favorites and his son, Frankie, who has been born into Red Bull Mets, Knicks, Rangers,

I don't know, whatever depressing thing you can think of. And Bella Nance, I believe, is the other team. Philadelphia, though, having a pretty good week. So they destroyed DC United. It was 6.0 was the final. And then at the same time, every single team that stood around them in the standings found a way to drop points. So on Saturday, already Inter Miami had tied 1-1 at Toronto as the opening game of the day before the night session. So Philly then knows they put up the six goals that they are absolutely good, that they're golden, that they're flying.

then after that they proceed to have vancouver drop points at seattle san diego lose at home to san jose it's tough and then on sunday night cincinnati up one zero concedes a stoppage time equalizer to alex freeman which at the same time as the packers are playing i don't know if you've heard but his dad actually played in the nflb for the green bay packers um and then so philadelphia has basically the perfect weekend that anyone could have. They stretched their lead atop the Eastern Conference by four points. Inter-Miamy now do not have a higher points per game, so they don't control their own destiny, even if they were to win all of their games in hand, Vancouver the same. Like, what a night

from Philly of like, yeah, you know what? If this team's going to be down, we're just going to take all of it. It's, they have a four-point lead now over Cincinnati. And again, that, that of all of the results, I think the Cincinnati one was the most important for Philly's Shield because now they're four points behind them. And with them dropping points, the first tiebreaker wins. The first tiebreaker is in gold difference, which Philadelphia already has. But now Philadelphia already has the wins tiebreaker as well. So yeah, they've got one hand on the shield. They've watched everything play out in their favor over, honestly the last couple weeks, like pretty much Sincet was winning. But Vancouver had it in their hands. Miami gave them a scare

with that big win on Wednesday night against NYCFCC and then in the most predictable fashion, Miami, barely scraped by DC United at home smash NYCFC on the road. When we're like, yeah, no, like this is going to be and then go to Toronto and draw that. Like, it's the perfect quandary.

And Philadelphia, again, like, they've held consistent. And the way that, the way that you win supporters shields, the way that you win league titles and European competitions and stuff, like regular season in the League of Meggies is a little different because they break it into two but you win these titles

by not performing great against the rivals in the race though that is nice. This team just lost 7-0 to Vancouver. You win these season-long events by consistently beating teams you're supposed to beat. This is how Manchester City won all those titles in the Yergenclop Pep-Guardo rivalry

at the end of the 2010s. Liverpool played them back better than anybody. Liverpool seemed to always get a result. And then it'd be like, oh, wow, like, that felt great. Like, we feel like we're better than City. And then City would just go in, like, robot mode and win the next 17 games against mid-table teams. And, like, Philadelphia's done that this season. They have finished the season really strong with, like, some of, like, at Cincinnati was a good win. But, like, other than that, they haven't beaten a playoff team outside of Cincinnati since Chicago on June 25th. We're strong.

That's a playoff team. Yeah, like, so they've beaten one playoff team since early June. And sometimes that's, like, I'm not saying this as a knock. I'm saying it says, this is how you win this kind of trophy. You beat the team you're supposed to beat, and you do it every single week. Yeah. It's, um, it's, this part of its most impressive because coming out of Open Cup, it felt like they had let the rope drop of the loss to Vancouver was so heavy.

and you could only have explained it with all right you have eyes towards open cup which they did the weird roster stuff carnell had split the roster but then he pushed the starters back in then they get they looked exhausted against Nashville and you're like this is over like they're not the deepest team in this as you said the results against the top teams have not been there and they go up against the top teams to close like we have said this over and over again that was the big worry for this team is they finished with n y CFC and Charlotte. And like that was the big sticking point in picking them as favorites, even as they led in the last few weeks. So to come back and just take care of business here and put the pressure on everyone else to stick with you and then them not be able to. And, you know, it kind of like takes all of the pressure off your shoulders for these final few games is massive for this team. And I didn't think they were going to do it. Like coming out of that Nashville game, I didn't think that they were going to. to be able to get over the line.

I thought they were still a contender in the playoffs and like every bit an MLS Cup favorite as they were before that. I just didn't think they had the momentum to take them through. And at this point of the season, like that's what a lot of it is. And Miami has never landed on any of that momentum.

Every game with them feels like a struggle. And it's a back and forth. TFC of now, I think, drawn like six straight games. So I guess you fell to greatness, a great tying team. And that's what happens to you. like this was, you know, Miami only controlled their destiny as long as they continued to win at an insane rate with all of these midweek games. And it felt like it wasn't going to be

sustainable with the age that they are at and what they need to do to beat teams, which is be overwhelming. Yeah, exactly. And it was always a tall task for Miami because of that fixture congestion. Again, not just right now, though right now makes it most important. Like their entire season has been fixture congestion with Concaf Champions Cup to Club World Cup, which only two teams, three teams are in this league had to deal with, which really moved a lot of things around. Then they get to the League's Cup final. Like that bumped a lot of stuff back. So it's not even just that, all right, now it's going to be a really hard period of, you know, seven games and 22 days or whatever the number is. It's been like that all season. So it has

not been a rest bite. And you saw, like Doyle posted a clip on Blue Sky of what they called transition defending. Six dudes were in the attacking box. They lost the ball. And Toronto leisurely jogged the ball forward and had a six. six on four. And by the way, in that, there was no passes. It went to Corbino and he kind of slowly dribbled into somebody in the ball. He either got taken away and went out of bounds. It was just a disaster class on both ends. But like, Miami's already not a team that's going to play in transition. But that was particularly like a really good clip to show, oh yeah, like this team's absolutely guessed. Like this is, they gave it all. And then that win against NYCFC. And then this

was the letdown game. And again, we've probably already spent too much time talking about Miami, but they earned that with a couple of those wins to put themselves in this position. Vancouver, too many injuries and same thing, too many games. And we spoke about this last show that it's, this isn't the priority.

Like it would be really nice to win the shield, but not at the expense of stretching these guys thin and, you know, risking the Canadian championship or most importantly the playoffs. And that's where the congestion story is for both of them. No one has ever won, no one's ever been to a Conca champion final

and then gone on to do serious damage in the league like what vancouver is doing is already impressive but they had it in front of them and there's very little guarantee that this team is going to even push for mLS cup like the way they're set up so they have the Canadian championship coming up midweek that one is against Vancouver FC which is like a cool matchup for them and everything but they've won four of those the shield was I think the big trophy for them out there and if they had picked up the two points this weekend they have been in the driver's seat to do all of this. And so I think that one is like really upsetting because it's a huge moment for them. And they just, they are limping through the last few

stages of this. And I just think that's really unfortunate for them. Now they are still really strong. But to have put yourself in a spot where you would have been, if they had won against Seattle, a game they went ahead in and then had won out, they, you know, the, the game in hand, they would have been one point behind Philadelphia. And again, Philadelphia has to play NYC, F.C. and Charlotte in the final two games. And the Eastern Conference between third and sixth is a three-point gap. So those teams will have something to play for in every single game coming up. It would have been a huge opportunity. And they let the rope slip from their hands as well. And Cincinnati and San Diego, the other two big ones. Let's start with San Diego.

San Jose at home, they get shut out. Four goals over the last. last five games. It has just, it hasn't been night and day because the style is still there. The ethos is still there. The DNA is still there. But the finishing has not been for them. And it comes in a weekend in which Milan Oloski plays and wins and scores for Philadelphia. Yeah, that's what's tough. And so in that five game stretch, they've dropped the points in four those games. It's one win, two draws and two losses. A draw at home to Portland, which isn't looking great right now, loss at home to San Jose, and a draw at Atlanta. Like, if you want to win the shield, those are the games that you win.

And I don't want to move the goalposts and be super negative on San Diego. Like, this is literally the best expansion season of all time so far. Like, if they pick up one more point, I think, that that confirms it. And then if they win one round in the playoffs, the only argument would be, because that Atlanta team and that L.A.F.C. team, they lost the first round of playoffs. You, like, Seattle won the Open Cup in 09. That's the only kind of argument. And they weren't as good in the regular season.

send it was like while it's very disappointing and these are games that we thought that they were going to win because we've kind of moved the goalposts like i do want to re-centered this that it's still a huge accomplishment what whatever if they can kind of pick up momentum getting back to the playoffs but yeah it is Warren gosh they have what five million in allocation money um it's a great roster and their roster building principles is why they're here it's why that they have so much flexibility and why the future looks still so very bright for this team but They're ahead of schedule in terms of competing for trophies and having all of that allocation money and letting Milano Lovsky walk. From what I was sold, it wasn't a crazy salary expectation or ask, and negotiations didn't really go anywhere.

Well, we know that because Philadelphia signed him, and Philadelphia is not going huge on those numbers. And then with that, not signing somebody from abroad. And again, I'm good with not panic signing, but when you score three goals over five games when you're, or sorry four goals over five games when you're in the shield race unpredictably maybe prematurely to what your expectations were in game models and planning was for the roster doesn't look great right now that they didn't bring in another kind of attacker to help with with dryer and chuky and then again taking a step back too there were a lot of chances in this game only valakari miss one um chuky came close a couple

times and dryer was they were good until the finishing touch and maybe that's randomness and maybe that's a sign of something deeper. I think it's more randomness, but it's hard to not look at all of the flexibility and then not doing it. Particularly, uh, Alasky walking. I think the expectation, though, is like,

Dreyer and Chuky have hit the numbers you'd expect them to hit. And so the quote unquote randomness is, you don't have other guaranteed goal scores on the roster, and you've gotten what you should expect. Yes, if Andro Stryor scores 47 goals this year, they were going to win the supporter shield. Like, that's just the way it is for anyone. he's the MVP of the league.

He's had a better season than anyone could have hoped for them, but they don't have enough support to bring them to the next level. This is also like Hunter versus hunted now. People have seen them. People are starting to adjust to them. I don't know adjust is the right word because, as you said, they still create the chances they want to. I just think it's a little more comfortable.

I think people were uncomfortable at the beginning because they didn't know what to expect, and all of a sudden you're in these games where this team's passing around you in a different way than anyone else you match up against. And I think now, whether you've experienced it once already or just from watching so much of it, now there's starting to be a feel of like, okay, we know where to settle in here. We expect this to come. And even if you can't fully stop it, it is not this like curveball that's throwing you off where it felt like teams were all over the place

in the opening three or four months, just understanding what was happening and what San Diego was doing. And San Diego, you know, as you said, it will go on to be a historic season no matter what. but they had a huge opportunity. For San Jose, a massive win. We'll get into that because we'll talk about the Western Conference playoffs. Let's finish this out with Cincinnati, who led 1-0 at home on Sunday night soccer after Weeby ate what, pizza or a hot dog or chili wrapped in a pizza?

I didn't know that was a thing. Yeah. Is that a thing? Or do you think that somebody in Cincinnati was like, let's see if we can get Weeby to eat this on TV? So it's funny because they called it a SkyRosa because it's skyline chili and I think a lot of Rosa pizza. Is it no Rosa like a East Coast thing?

Pizza? I have no idea. I've never heard of it. There's a bar that's one block away that I'm staring at right now because it's the rooftop of this building and it's called Sky Rosa. And so I thought it was like so, I was like, I don't understand what's happening. And I only really saw the comments at first and then I watched the video. And listen, I'm not above it.

I ate a hot talk at the game I went to. I'll eat pizza anytime. I wouldn't choose it. Actually, this is a lie. Yeah, what are you talking about? so you know the like things that everyone a locals always have that they're like we can convince dumb Americans that this is a real thing do you know about drop bears no okay so drop bears are a fake thing in australia and someone made a Wikipedia page with a picture of a koala bear with blood on its face and they created this thing called drop bears and they're like when you're walking australia it's super dangerous because drop bears if you're in their territory will just drop out of the tree and they will like bite you that you they're super violent. They don't even exist.

But, like, when I first was told it, I was like, oh, well, you got to watch out for drop bears. And then at some point, someone doesn't realize the bit or, like, isn't a part of it. So, they lose it. The Italian, one of the Italian people I play soccer with, we go to this, like, Neapolitan pizza place. And they convinced me that a very classic Italian pizza is French fries and hot dogs on a pizza. And I ordered it. They, like, bullied me into ordering it. And I was like, yeah, okay, fine.

I'll do it. It was gross. Yeah. And it wasn't good. So I don't envy Weeby right now in any way. No, I wonder how it's stomachs doing. I'm curious as well. It would be similar to FC Cincinnati fans' stomachs, which is this is a team that has somehow underperformed while putting up the numbers literally all season.

We've talked about it a couple times on this show. The attack has never clicked. Brenner has made it better. It's come back out of the, like, completely. complete misery they were in. It is fully dependent on Evander. The backline hasn't really been healthy. Noobino's injury has been a major part of that. Miazga and Miles have been in and out as well. But they, like you said, this was the big result. Like they were the one Sunday night where it was like, okay, we know what we need to do. We have a shot to win this game and put pressure

on Philadelphia. And they were incapable of seeing out a home game against, admittedly, a good A very good team. Again, wild Orlando, during the jumbled nature of, they're currently sitting in seventh, but they have a game in hand. This is, like you said, typically just easily a top 14 in a conference every year, except for this one in the east because of how strong it is. You look at their underlying numbers, Orlando are fifth in MLS and expected goal difference. Like, they are legitimately one of the best teams in the league, but you have them 1-0 up. It's a great header by Alexander Freeman to tie the game. It's just, gut punch for Sincey when, to your point, they haven't, we always feel like there's this next

gear that maybe it just isn't there right now. And who knows what's going to happen in the winter in the off season? Is Brenner going to be able to still be here? What is going to happen? The knock on effect of the Miles Robinson contract. Like, Dave spoke openly, Chris Albright and Pat Noon and in this club of like, we know we have a championship worthy team and we're doing everything we can to maximize and give ourselves every chance. This shield was a really big chance. and you never know what exactly the future is going to bring. So, yeah, it hurts. But, again, for me, like, going to the playoffs since you're still going to be among the favorites.

And the problem is, is that the East, like, hell, the Red Bulls got out of the East. And we're going to talk about them, obviously, very soon. But, like, the playoffs aren't guaranteed. So when you're within striking distance of the Shield, you go into the playoffs with a trophy and you look back in the season. Like, it's really unfortunate. But, again, good teams get results. like, you know, Orlando, not an easy one to put away, always fighting until the end.

They may get a knack of this and get credit to outstream, and that was a really good header. Yeah, yeah, it was a tough goal for him to score. Duncan McGuire probably should have had one earlier as well. I thought, oh, hey, it was good, not great, a tough game for him to sort of find space and enough touches. But this is an Orlando team, I think, that should feel fairly confident going into the postseason that they can match up with everyone, and then this is a Cincinnati team that I have no idea. I think if you asked me the top four or five in the east and west, I'd say this Cincinnati team, even beyond Interm Miami,

are like the biggest unknown. And I have no idea what we're going to get in the playoffs. And I have no idea, like, who the true identity of this team is. I was so wrong about this team. Like, I'm coming up to Yom Kippor. I'm going to be away on Thursday. You're going to be doing the show without me because you have to atone for your sins and everything. And I, like, my preseason was I thought of Vander would struggle to fit in,

but the team would be so good. that it wouldn't matter. That is so polar opposite of what has happened. Can I just say something? There's some, there are people in Portland that would point to, eh, maybe it wasn't, like you have to bend a lot of what you do.

Like, he goes so off script on stuff. And again, for me, I don't subscribe to this theory or criticism of Venter because he's freaking awesome, MVP candidate. But there are people in Portland saying, yeah, you lose structure. Things become different.

And he ends up being a one-man wrecking crew in good and bad. Yeah. Cincinnati or second in the east and Portland was like, what, eighth last year? Or did they make the playoffs? In terms of the play style and in terms of why isn't the attack totally clicking, well, maybe that's part of it. Yeah. I find that really hard to accept.

I find that I'm even if, even if I'm totally good with that tradeoff if I'm Cincinnati. And I was saying that since that move happened. And I thought that the defensive structure was going to make this even, like, in Portland, he was partly their savior, but also partly like it's difficult to defend in transition. Well, when you have Miles Robinson, you have Matt Miasga, and you have Obie and Woboto, there's been injuries to varying degrees for those three players. That's why I thought this was an absolute home run signing, because the drawbacks or potential drawbacks weren't as pronounced because the team is better around him.

And again, I'm taking that trade off 10 times out of 10, but it's fair to at least bring up while we the AIIs and the attack total. totally flowing and totally feeling connected, those two things are connected. Yeah. We are going to talk about Portland because they are still struggling, and Evander's not there anymore, so that's a bit of a curveball. And they are part of this conversation around the Western Conference playoff spot. Big result for Dallas, as we mentioned, San Jose, moving into the playoff spot, which was

the huge curveball coming off four straight losses, and Dallas has been charging to get up the standings. are still in play and all of this. So we're going to talk about all those teams coming up in just a moment. But before we get there, one of the big stories right now is New York Red Bulls and Hudson River Derby. They experienced the full scale of what I experienced over the course of the weekend. They somewhat had a shot to control their destiny.

Turns out it wouldn't have worked out that way anyway. They've left themselves too little to do too late. They played against their rivals and they are about to make history for themselves. It was 3-2 win by NYCFC at Red Bull Arena. Insane game. You had NYCFC open up the scoring two minutes into the game. Then you had Red Bulls equalize. NYCFC take the lead.

Then you had Red Bulls equalize again two minutes into the second half from Emil Foresburg. And you eventually end up getting a Tiago Martinez winner, often on just Pereira header. And NYCFC takes the win three to two. Then after the game, some really ugly scenes in the stadium in which the Red Bulls players going around and you can understand frustration from fans with their interaction between one of the supporters groups and Rahim Edwards. And afterwards, sort of the reports coming out that there was racist language used against Rahim from the crowd, which is beyond unacceptable and shouldn't even be in a person's thoughts as they are in a situation. and talking to someone else and it's part of what we continue to experience around soccer, around culture, around society,

every single thing included. And I have seen videos, but you can't hear anything. I don't really understand what's happening. And so that afterwards was the darkest mark on what is a dark day for the Red Bulls because they are most likely now going to miss the playoffs for the first time in 16 years.

It is the longest playoff streak in Major League Soccer. It is, I think, one of the longest playoff streets in professional sports. It has gone on so long that their building has never had a non-playoff team since Red Bull Arena started in Sports Illustrated Stadium.

So it is, you know, a final collapse for a club that since 2017, since 2018, has slowly taken steps back. They have, they did make the run to MLS Cup last year out of nowhere, out of the wild card spot and the full playoff bush and everything but it feels like it's been half steps back for a while now tom and now we're finally

bottomed out the red bulls making mLS cup last year was a fluke and the structural issues with this team is the team that last season from when amel fours were got hurt to the end of the season were one of the worst team than league they had a great run to ms cup very fun that was built on set piece defending and losing the XG battle every game. They had the opportunity this winter to improve. Triple Moteng has been good. Alexander Hacked has been very bad. They have missed on too many of the signings

and left a DP spot open chasing Timo Verner and ultimately a combination of not being able to convince Werner and not willing to go to his demands. Not saying whether that was right or wrong or indifferent, it would have been a lot of money to pay him. But it was a staring contest, and Timel Werner and Timoverta's agent won. And the Red Bulls did not have a backup plan, and the Red Bulls are missing the playoffs. All of those things are directly correlated.

And, again, furthermore, it shows that the warm blanket of that playoff run last season was not sustainable. It was not proof that they were going in the right direction. it was not it was a fun run and was not predictive of the future unfortunately because they could not build upon it and this team would have had a reckoning last winter if they missed the playoffs yeah and i don't know if they will this winter because you point to mLS cup and you point to well the east was traditionally historically difficult and that would be very bad news and i don't i don't know the exact changes that are necessary because on paper, there were a lot of good players.

Again, Chopo Motein and Emil Forrest, but they are not the issue. There are a lot of pieces that I like. Daniel Edelman, your shroud, Sean Lewis, Carl's Cornell. These are all in Grinaldancourt. Very, very good. These are all ingredients of a playoff team.

And I don't know what they need to do this winter, whether it's a couple changes or for something more wholesale. And I think that's the bigger, worry for me because Forzburg and Chopinoteng are now one year older. Forsberg has missed time since he got to this club. Chopinoteng, how many minutes can you realistically expect him to do next year? This is why it's so imperative to have that third DP or at least hit on several

Tam signings to alleviate the game-to-game burden from your aging two stars. The Tam threshold right now is what? 657, 597, whatever it is? Mid-600s, yeah. So this roster for the Red Bulls has, I believe it's four players over that threshold. That's it. So not only have they not gone and signed DPs, they have not spent a large amount on Tam players who are like players that you would choose to lean on and carry your team.

They've got the two huge DPs in Foresburg and Shupamotang. They've got Lewis Morgan, who unfortunately can't stay healthy, and Alex Hack, who's had a terrible season. I forgot about Morgan there, yeah. Yeah, and has been a big loss for them. But you're right in that last year was a fluke, and they had the chance to look at it and say, like, we got fortunate. Now let's do the thing we should do.

And in bringing in Shupamoteng, in replacing Van Zier, they just, they upgraded, but they replaced the thing they had instead of adding to it. And this is what we've said over and over. Timo Verner would have been the ad, not the case. Great. There was no plan B, and they never pivoted to it. And now they are a 242 team if they wanted to be, but they never use the allocation money because they didn't give themselves a timeline to say, if Timo Verner's out, we need to know by X state so we can pivot and move this money around.

And I say this in it's that middle of the roster to. me. It's like looking at this team and then saying with Cincinnati, like, where does an origano fall in your, like, rankings of where they sit? Where does a miazca fall? You know, these are the players where, okay, you've got Emil Forsberg, who is as good as a DP as anyone else, and you've got the guys you hit on on the bottom, like you said, in the Doncourse, Edelman under, you know, a team-friendly deal, shroud as well. It's the middle of the roster where this team has completely thinned out. They have landed on a lot of young, international players, which NYCFC has done as well, some other teams have done as well,

they have hit on almost none of them. And like that is over the course of now a three, four year span. We're still waiting on the Wiki Carmona blow up. Like we're still waiting on some of these guys or they just give up and bring in the next player. And that I think is where this roster has really fallen apart. And you could have masked it again if you had gone with a third DP and gone big and had elite talent and you asked the Sean Nealas is of the world. Noah I Lay is the one by the way on that international conversation.

He is a good young player. He has stepped in well. He's been really good for them. You could amassed it if you had another elite attacker and they chose not to. So there's a lot of frustration from their fans. I think all of it is completely fair. And I think

that we're going to learn a lot about this club because they got out of jail free last year and they chose to not look at the underlying numbers and look at the truth. And if they do the same this year after missing the playoffs for the first time in 15 years,

then they don't care. And that I think is a lot worse for their fans to accept. And going to the roster, and to give them credit, like Trobe Mottec is not a cheap signing, and Mel Forbesberg, not a cheap signing. You could quibble with Forsberg

comes from Red Bull Global to Red Bulls, New York, whatever. At least they put the money up and it wasn't just signing you 23 players. But to your point, like they didn't do enough around that and the high leverage spots on this roster 3DPs 3-20 initiatives

well the third DB never came and the 3 U-22s I was good degenerated not and Bogots not and Bogots were like not yet for both of those players I mean I think I'm pretty sure with one of the first of the two that might not really hit

but like those are two high leverage slots that didn't come in and and you've talked about hack you talked about the other kind of misses on the team and that's that's that's a disappointment other teams have started to figure out or at least started to say okay what we know on you 22 initiative signings is the best return on investment is sign a 21 year old and pay a higher fee you are much more likely to hit on that signing and it's more expensive and that comes with risk in and of itself but the class of like debaubat signing you what was um what was the for Jorgensen, Matzius Jorgensen or whatever?

Yeah. That's what that felt like, and that's not fair to that player. Like, maybe it is going to work out, but you know you have a higher hit, right? You know that you have a higher floor with more money, or identifying the older players. Not, and again, this isn't on him, but it's a pattern or it's a wider recognition that this team used to be great at producing Academy Towns and signing players within the league. Aaron Long, Tim Parker, was the bedrock of that foundation for the Jesse Marsh early years, and that had Sasha and BWP in the attack. And BWP was a great international signing.

Sasha came from MLS, went to underlieb, comes back. You know, Dax McCarty was a trade, and you kind of go on through that team, they're not doing that anymore. They're not finding any of the value or any of the quality players. So when they do miss on some TAM signings, and when they do miss on the 22 initiative signings, there isn't that same level of foundation that was in the past through the, the academy plus finding players from within the league and that's kind of that's where you give

yourself the higher floor and that's where you give yourself more chances to take swings and then they become luxury players if they don't work out and it doesn't kind of throw your season um it's an interesting this is an interesting question from the chat that i want to talk about for a second um because it goes into this which is um Kevin Morris says do you think any team can win trophies in MLS anymore without three DPs and we kind of have an answer to this because we have all the teams lined up amongst themselves and the 20

the teams that are on the U22 initiative model so remember right 3 DPs 3 U22s or 2 DPs for U22s and then you get an extra 2 munification in discretionary allocation money which still means

that if a team chooses not to have 3 DPs they still have to pay out to use that money and that is the hole that the Red Bulls left, which was they don't have the DP and they didn't choose to invest that money. On the flip side, San Diego and Minnesota are U-22 initiative teams, as is Vancouver. They have used that allocation money on guys like Robin Ludd, who are match winners that are not DPs. That's how you win. You win with two elite DPs and then a really strong

band of players between three and seven who are all on their day match winners and give you a really high floor and they're not the only teams but like those are two of the very obvious ones and f cincinnati's in there as well and orijano like those are the players as i mentioned miasga before like those are players who are off dp who are really good players who are special players who can make you a really special team um it is possible to win that way in major league soccer but like that's a different lane if you are just going to be cheap about it then it's going to be pretty hard and you have to hit on everything and sometimes that works out you know Philadelphia is a team that has kind of hit on everything has a cohesive system and everything else

about it but it's really hard to do sorry Philadelphia becomes as an example and like Ernst Tanner and that front office's track record right now is as good as if not better than everybody else like they also spend millions of dollars on their academy yes more than other teams too. They've, it's really difficult to hit on a roster and like have a bunch of value signings and a bunch of, you know, play. And it's hard to do that in of itself. It is damn near impossible to do that multiple times in row, which Philadelphia has done. So yeah, Philadelphia can count in this, but like that's, it's, that's a much more high wire act. And right now it's like Ernst Tanner and I don't know how many other front offices can do that. Yeah. I fully agree. I will say all of

comes. I think on the back end of the Red Bulls thinning out as a club, it just feels like from the people I know, the sport has shifted, like, it just doesn't feel like there's a ton of buy-in from the club itself, and therefore it has been lost from the fans. And this is a club that, like, yeah, didn't sell out every game, but when Jesse was there, they matter. And fans were engaged in it, and they won trophies. And they played huge conference finals that had sellout crowds against Atlanta and the revs back in the day when Tierra Andre was there.

And, like, they've had big moments and it hasn't been the case recently. Let's jump over to the Western Conference and we're going to answer Chase Garduna's question in this, which says, Sakwasha re-Rand to an Eastern Conference MLS podcast plus L-AFC. So if you're wondering... That comment came in, I don't know,

45 seconds after we talked about San Diego Fried, but just wanted to point out. If you're wondering, if Inter Miami wins one of their games in hand, there's a decent chance the top four teams in the Shield Race will finish in the Eastern Conference. Chicago Fire right now sit in ninth on 48 points. They would be fifth in the West, and they still have a game in hand on some of the teams around them. So yes, the Eastern Conference this year is a lot better.

We'll talk with Dan Lovitz about that in the podcast coming up, and the playoff race to get in the Western Conference is tough because Dallas has been on phenomenal form. otherwise you take eighth place you go down the rapids have lost three of their last five san jose has lost three of their last five ral salt lake has lost three of their last five and houston has lost two and tied one it is not a race to the playoffs right now it's hooking back in and limp in i'm excited to watch it close but you are correct in that we have enjoyed watching the east a little bit more this year and we have been more impressed by the teams we have seen the Eastern Conference. Doesn't mean the playoffs in the West aren't going to be as equally

interesting. Doesn't mean that some of these teams aren't having unbelievable years. San Diego will set this expansion record. Vancouver will have one of the best years in MLS history across multiple competitions, especially if they can win a trophy. Sun and Boulanga are putting on a historic performance as a duo so far. And there's a lot of other fun things to talk about. But yes, congratulations, Chase. You accomplished what you wanted as you just said it. Now let's do this Western Conference playoff rave. So San Jose beat San Diego to take over the spot. R.S.L beat Austin, and a rotated Austin team with an open cup final coming up on Wednesday night.

Dallas drew at Portland on a late equalizer. And then Colorado drew with Minnesota and Houston lost to Nashville. The Houston game, they went one zero down in about six minutes. Then Svijchenko picks up a red card, about five minutes. minutes later. So they played 80 minutes on the road against an open cup finalist team with two of the top goalscores and maybe the golden boot winner on the field and they lost 3-1 as is like fully expected. Now in all of this, the San Jose win the most shocking. They seeded the chances you'd expect. They ceded the possession you'd expect. To me, the team that has been the most

interesting and we've talked about them on this show, I think because of it, has been FC Dallas. The Logan Farrington-Pedermusa pairing has been really, really good. The floor feels pretty high with this team. They don't give up soft chances. And they went to a Portland team, and I thought they were the better team across the whole game. And I thought they showed their quality as well as with Anderson Julio coming off the bench, the ability to change the game and continue to push it. And to me, of all these teams left in this stretch, they feel the most reliable.

and I would say if I had to pick one, that's the one I would pick to see it out. They finish with Galaxy twice and Vancouver on Decision Day. Galaxy, it's a funny quirk. It was like how R.S.L. had L.A.F.C. back-to-back games. And now they're getting L.A. twice Dallas are. Yeah, Dallas has one loss in the last 10 games. They have, you know, a high number of draws in that run. But I thought they were dead and buried earlier this summer around the Lucha's stuff.

and it was, hey, let's kind of move forward, Carter Losses and figure it out for 26. And to their credit, for a coaching situation that I thought was about to be a one-and-done, those questions have to be asked now of whether they do stick with Eric Quill. And so that in and of itself is respectable and fighting back and playing well. And with Musa, with how good he is, you're always going to kind of have a chance. The defensive unit, Uruguida, has been, I think, quietly very, very good for, It kind of doesn't make sense to be talking about how good a centerback has been for a team that troubled defensively for so much of the season, but he has been very, very good.

He has a building block. That was an excellent signing. So, yeah, you say from eighth to 12th is Colorado, San Jose, Dallas, Real Salt Lake Houston. Colorado have 40 points, and then San Jose and Dallas 38, Salt Lake 37, Houston, 36. Where are you standing right here with where this race goes? And one more caveat, Real Salt Lake and Dallas have one game in hand. Yeah, I think overall I like the way Paxton Aronson has looked with Colorado. I think he drives the game.

I think there's a decent amount of energy. It feels like other guys can play off him. So as much, like I think Colorado, unfortunate they don't beat Minnesota. Like they would have felt like they should have. And the loss of Dallas head to head is tough. But I think that if I had to pick two of these teams, I would pick Colorado and Dallas on pure soccer right now. um and i would i don't see a lot in them that makes me change that i don't think you know there's no specific injury that worries me i don't love what i've seen from jacobs and goal for dallas

and i thought he had a tough weekend against portland it was an own goal on the opening goal he picks up a yellow card for yelling at the ref and then immediately concedes on that corner kick to an own goal which is tough is just like a tough sequence all in it kind of looks defeated pretty often uh when he gives up chances, but as you said, like Urugidae's been good. I like a lot of the pieces in midfield. I like Kayeke. I like Romero. So I think there's a lot of energy. Capus has stepped in well. I think there's a lot of energy to cover ground in front of them. And Musa and Farrington and whoever is sort of like committing from the wings are so dangerous that they're going to create chances no matter what. My only regret is I had Musa for a golden boot winner and I probably

should have had him in some MVP convo or whatever he's going to end up in, but he's going to finish on, like, 19 goals. He is, for his team, one of the best players in Major League Soccer. Why do you keep pushing this notion of, you keep on taking a victory lap on Peter Moose, one, as if people were saying he's bad. Whoa, whoa, everyone, he's not going to win the, he's not going to win the Golden Boot, and you're like, well, he's, you know, I should really have been talking MVP. For the 10th place team in the West?

Overall, man. Overall. What are you talking about? Overall, overall. Just saying nonsense. Just say nonsense. It's a really good. player. Envy, what in the world are you talking about?

He's one of the best players, though? Try to sneak that by me. No chance, bro. Nice. No chance. Colorado R.S.L, by the way, that one's coming up on Saturday. Huge. Yeah. Rocky Mountain Cup. I will actually be in Colorado while the game is in Salt Lake, which is heartbreaking for me. It had nothing to do with my travel plans, a family trip, but I would have been there if it was in Colorado.

And you will have the coverage of that one coming up on Thursday while I'm away. Thursday afternoon is going to be the live show and then the podcast, which I'm very, very excited about what do you have two teams here that you would lean on in specific reasons yeah so colorado do like i believe in them as a group and they do have that two-point cushion um but this is a huge one between real salt lake and colorado it's too much for crapshoot here san Jose of course they went on the road and beat san diego when they're dropping points uh at home to non-playoff teams because that's the san Jose experience and that's why we love it i want to go back to another thing that that Chase Carduno said in the chat, like, does Pablo Maserani keep his job this winter?

I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Because in one hand, I think he's a good coach. And I don't necessarily, like he didn't have DPs until the summer. That's like, and Diego Luna's been gone for so much. But on the other hand, it's not as if they're flying and he has been there for a while. So it's not a great podcast line here. My last 15 seconds, but I honestly don't know what I would do. I guess one of the things that would be tough in that is what's the expectations and has he fallen short? So this is a club that has made the playoffs every year for the last four years and they haven't won around in the playoffs the last three. So is the gap there between seventh or eighth in the west and 10th in the west and not winning a

playoff game either way the difference between it being a successful season or not i think they've underwhelmed over these three years but they made the postseason every year and therefore that's been good enough so um underwhelmed interesting yeah i don't know if i like i wouldn't i wouldn't say that they're necessarily overperforming but i'll tell you what there's a lot of worry that so i don't know look at Dallas's last few years from Lucci to Nico to Eric Quill how much has changed and I think that there is a worry

and it's a decision on I think you got a decent floor with Pablo Master Rang but if it's 10th in the West then that's not enough but I'll tell you we could be sitting here this time next year being like new coach

are they on the hot seat wow they're in 13th place like that doesn't look great and again maybe it would go better. So truly, I don't know where I land out on this. I don't know, Houston, Houston made their coaching change, and Paul Nagamuro wasn't here for very long. And there was, there's been other teams in D.C.

And there were a lot of more different issues with different teams and stuff. But I guess it, I don't think it's totally his fault. But like, I think that the team could be doing better. So I'm really, really torn on this one. And Chase, it is a good question and something that, again, in professional soccer, it's probably a new coach because that's what you do. And that's what teams do. And there are plenty of valid reasons for that.

But I can still really see a scenario in which that happens, and then they're 14th next year. And Diego Luna is playing for somebody else. I think what you would hope is if that happened, that there would be a consensus inside the club, which under a new ownership group might be a little bit tougher to come to already, of like, okay, well, this is what we're, this is our identity, aka, are they going to produce young players?

Are they going to force minutes on them? Are they going to try and be Philadelphia West? If that's the case, which I think a large amount of the academy investment is there to be that team, then you have to open up the spots for those players to play, and you've got to force the minutes on them. And I don't think Pablo's that guy, but also, I don't think he's been given the roster for that. Like, he's been given DPs and experienced players in positions to play, and they're going to win you a game probably today better than that young player. And that's where the club has landed.

They've worked Diego Luna in. They've gozo's been awesome. he is one of the great stories of this season so wherever they land on that you got to make that decision first and then you would hire someone into that and say they have an understanding of exactly what we want to accomplish and exactly what we want to be all right let's dig into open cup we have daniel lovitz coming up in just a moment on the podcast um so if you're listening there you will get a large amount of open cup preview if you're watching live or watching back on YouTube go to the podcast for that.

Let's just talk big picture what it would mean for these two clubs. And then we will get into a lot of the conversation with Daniel Lovitz. Let's start with Austin here. Tom, it's their first final to ever host at their stadium. Q2 Stadium bounces. Like, I think this is going to be a really cool atmosphere for an Open Cup final. I'm very upset that I won't be there. That it is the holiest night of the year for us.

and I'm not going to be able to go. But next year, I guess we'll be at the Open Cup final. It's going to be a big deal. It's going to be a big deal, I think, for a club that is super relevant in their market. And it feels even bigger because similar to what we talked about with the Red Bulls last year and MLS Cup. Like, it's an outlier that they've made it this far, but they're one game, one home game away from lifting their first trophy. Yeah, that's where I want to start with the fans. Also, I see a really, really good fans.

As you said, they have resonated in the market. that's a positive reflection of the club itself and doing things, but also a reflection of the fans themselves and how many people deeply care about soccer in that city. It's been tough. They had the run to the Western Conference final under Josh Wolfe and Sebastian Drew see his great year. That was a ton of fun.

Those Austin home games, that stadium jumping through the TV. Absolutely loved it. They've suffered through some barren stretches. They've suffered through some frustrating, not exactly the most entertaining brands of soccer and some teams that weren't at very, very good. And this season, they still haven't been exciting, but they're picking up points,

and man, these fans are rewarded with a home cup final, and that's where my mind goes first. In terms of what it mean, you put silverware in the cabinet, and then you're always going to point to it. You always get, it's, Nico Estevez, after the brand of Asquez injury, that was a tough hand.

We don't, neither of us, I think, think this roster is, you know, top third in the league, maybe it's average, maybe it's somewhere within there. So you've got to give Nico Estevez credit for what he's done again. Even if it's not the most exciting brand of soccer, it's been successful. And if you win a trophy, we're not going to be talking about, oh man, like, they needed penalties to get past San Jose earlier in the tournament or, ah, it's really frustrating. Ozunis doesn't have a lot of XG from open play. No, what you talk about is winning the trophy and what that day was like for you and your friends and your loved ones

and going to the game and being or watching the game, doing whatever you're doing. Like, that's all the matters at the end of the day. And this will be a fascinating game. I know what we're talking about what it means for the team,

but like Nashville, we're probably going to have the possession. And Austin are going to, like that atmosphere is going to play a role in this game. And I'm, again, I'm excited that this is being hosted in such a strong,

like potential, martin potential home game, like a potential crowd. We'll see what it is. I hope that it's bouncing on a Wednesday night earlier in this tournament there haven't been a ton of great atmospheres even as we got for the semifinals i get it it's midweek and stuff but that's been a little disappointing i'm assuming that this is going to be a good one and awesome yeah it uh has the potential to reignite i think every all

the excitement for this team two to three years in you had the great run with drusie second in the west and you had it being new and it being like sexy and fun and exciting and i don't think that's dropped as much as you'd expect in terms of like attendance and awareness of the team but it has in terms of excitement and so this gives you a whole other pop there's no other pro team like are they going to have a parade they could i would be shocked if most cities would do that austin seems capable of it and it's on the table now because you put yourself in the situation to host this game and win it so i think it's going to feel really big for nico escevez and rodolfo borrell it is massive because if the roster's not where it should be,

that's on Borrell who just spent a ton of money on it. And if it's not being maximized, then that's on Nico Estevez. And if you steal a trophy out of all of that, that gives you 18 more months of like you can, you know, at minimum you have all of next season. And I think that is really, really big for both of them. Maybe it gets you through the Vasquez injury when he comes back

and now you can start to find your form. Whatever it is going forward, like it saves where they sit. for a really long time. And you're in a state where the other clubs have more history. Like you are with an MLS original. You're with a Houston team that's won a bunch of MLS cups. They just won an open cup.

Dallas has won an open cup. So to put yourself in there, I think is really, really big for this team. And as good as Nashville is, and I think this team is really, really good. You're never going to get a better chance than a home single game elimination against a team that currently doesn't sit top five in. their conference. Now on the flip side, you could probably say the same for Nashville, which is an Austin team that's struggling, even though it's on the road, you're going to, you know, the last final you played in, you played against Lino Messi in Miami. Like this one is probably

a little bit more doable, a little bit more straightforward for them. And Walker Zerman said it on kickback committee a few weeks ago. And Daniel Lovitz, the interview we're going to get to, says it again, no pro team in the state of Tennessee's ever won a championship. So to be the first is a big opportunity for Nashville S.C. to like put their stamp on the larger state, put their stamp on the pro sports scene and say like we are relevant. We're a part of this. Take us seriously. And it would also set the stage to take some pressure off what could be a team that could make a playoff run. Yeah. The same applies for Nashville. Like you said, both of these teams are looking at this, you know, a cup final no matter what, but both teams are going to be. talking to them. So, okay, Austin, we're home. Nashville, like, Austin, like, we think we're better than them. We have this, this, so they got to the Lees Cup final, and they played Miami

really hard and ended up losing. I believe that was penalties, right? This team, there's an iteration of Nashville, the, the Honey Walker Zimmerman, the Lovitz, the Joe Willis, in particular, a trophy caliber team. Yeah. They were never one of the, they were never like, oh my God, this is the best team in MLS, but they've always been very good outside. of last season when Gary Smith got fired. So this being a culmination of their expansion season, again, Hanney, Walker, Joe Willis, Dan Lovitz,

Jack Mayer, all of them are originals on this team. And that is rare for that to continue through this time, for them to all still be very good, to get to varying degrees. But Hani Mukhtar dipped, and now he's completely back to like MVP caliber, Honey Muktar. Sam Sur just completely jumped under BJ Callahan, and the team has evolved and changed

But this, I think it'd mean a lot for how six, them making the playoffs their first four seasons, like only a couple of teams had done that in expansion history. So for Nashville to culminate this with a trophy, I think would be fitting, fair. And I know that they desperately want it. I know that they take this, the open cup itself very seriously. They've taken league's cup seriously. And they've played hard playoff games, but they haven't gotten a trophy. And it feels like if they came.

away with an open cup trophy or if it was the league's cup in the different circumstances or whatever we'd be like yeah on the balance of things that was a that was a deserving trophy team and it's nice that they get another opportunity because you're not guaranteed you're not guaranteed that and you know saying things like yeah they would be a fitting winner that doesn't equal a trophy and often like the the sad part of sports is professional sports is a lot of deserving winners don't get a win for things that are out of their control whether it's injuries or unlucky balance or there's a lot of really deserving teams.

So Nashville getting that another opportunity for a final with this core that is again tweaked with some other fresh faces and important players, I think is fitting and I'm excited for them for that opportunity. Honey Mukhtar has been good enough to be the star player of a team that's won, as you've said. Like a lot of this core has, Lovitz is a part of it, with Walker, with Joe Willis. Like they've put up some really big results. This is the best soccer that they have played, pure quality. and this is a huge opportunity for them to win their first trophy for both teams.

It would be the first trophy they've ever won, and it would be the first Open Cup victory. And for Nashville, can you imagine coming off that back into league play, trying to push in the playoffs, you finished with Decision Day at home against Miami, who would be like a revenge game back to the League's Cup final and doing so after being a team that won the U.S. Open Cup, it would be absolutely massive. In terms of on the field, like it's going to be. be fun to watch. Austin's going to seed possession. Nashville's going to take it. And the question is that cat and mouse game. As the fullbacks push, where does Hader O'Brien, find space, and Usman Bukari, that's the big question. Can he elevate and play like what is expected of him?

The openings will be there for his one-v-one moments, his ability to get out into the open space. Can he make the right play at the right time for this Austin team? Yet you know the group will there, like what they did in Minnesota to stay together, to stay sort of against the game under pressure, to concede late and then come back and win it shows that they at least are playing as a unified group. And now the question is if they have the quality to get over the top. And then for Nashville, I think can they play free? Like, can they come out and be open and aggressive? That's when they're at their best now under BJ Callahan. It's a final. People get nervous. Don't do it. Like, go and play your soccer. Trust that the chances will be

trust that surge and honey will put them away and open up the game and play quickly and let Tag Seth and Yazbek and these guys set pace, set tempo, and play on the front foot. But we don't really need to talk about it more. Why don't we go to the expert? So now we have Daniel Lovitz, Nashville SC left back on all things, Open Cup. Well, it is finally up to the big one. We've got an Open Cup final on the horizon on Wednesday night, and we are so excited for this game. And we think it's the best competition that MLS teams play in here at Soccerwise.

And so we figured to dig in a little bit more, let's talk to someone who's going to be out on the field and ready to lift the trophy. You know him, Dan Lovitch, starting left back for Nashville SC. Dan, thanks for joining us. No problem. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. It has been a long trip for you with Nashville. You've been with the club for a little while.

Take me into the semifinal. As the victory happens, sort of the thoughts going. through your head and maybe the experience with some of the people in and around the city and building that you've known over the course the last five years. Yeah, I think obviously for what was the short-term goal in front of us at the time, it was just a game against a good team in Philadelphia at home that we knew is going to be highly contested and highly combative, similar to all of our meetings with them. So that was a good moment for us to sort of get that rep in and to come together as a team and know that this is the team we're going to see later in the year more than likely.

And it's just a good opportunity to play in a different format and know that we're just one win away from being in a final. So I think all of us knowing how rare it is to have that opportunity, whatever the format is, whatever competition, there seems like there's a new one every year, the last few years in MLS. So we had the Leagues Cup experience and we all know, you know, there's a core group of us that remember that, unfortunately, how that went. and how exciting at the same time it was to be in a final. But knowing this is one of the hallowed competitions in American soccer,

as far as the landscape goes and as far as the history goes. So incredibly proud to progress and just really excited for Wednesday. As one of the American players on the team and yours is fairly American heavy compared to a lot of other MLS teams, but do you sort of have to talk about with maybe new players or as the competition starts at the beginning of the year, like what it means? Yeah, certainly a little bit. I know there's a lot of, you know, foreign competitions, the FAA Cup, what have you, other major leagues that do incorporate this kind of format.

And I think the concept is relatively easy to convey to guys coming over. But I think obviously once they get here and they get to compete and they understand the levels, the way, again, there's been shifts in what is the next league below us, what is the following league and what the hierarchy is there. is sort of unclear, but it's just great to have those guys come in to be a part of a team that's going to compete against whoever's laid out in front of us. And I think that part is really easy to get them integrated and excited for the tournament. I know that it's been a big strength in our group, considering how much we've leaned on guys to step in and play important roles in our progression through the tournament. So it's been great. It's been fun, get people to have skin in the game and to be invested.

So I think that's part of how you do get to a final. and I think it's part of the DNA of this group. So it's been relatively second nature for us, but excited to be here for sure. You mentioned a new competition every year. That's what it feels like. Like we spent two weeks before the season being like, teams are allowed to play in this, but not this,

and could play in this and can't this. Is it hard as a player to sort of go into a year with goals and then sort of have 97 different things that could happen? And maybe if you win this, it is a good season or not. Like, how does that all sort of connect to a team? I think the broad strokes of it and sort of like the macro approach and obviously the management of the roster through those competitions and what you're going to be allowed to play in, what you've qualified for, all that is not really up to the players. I think that's great. I think that's left up to management in front office.

So that's not really what we're focused on, so to speak, once those decisions get made and we know what tournaments and competitions were able to compete in. honestly the players it's a little bit of congestion but i think it's really nice to have clarity in terms of bonus money i think that's been a huge thing that the pa has done a really good job of trying to make sure everyone's clear on and united on and knowing that we're going to agree to these new formats these new competitions it's going to congest the schedule a little bit but for a reasonable benefit for the club and for players so i think that's been something our experience with leagues cup reflected that um i think it's something they're guys are aware of and starting to ask more about. And I think as we progress and we see these

new sort of formats start to get a little bit more robust in infrastructure and how the planning goes, I think it becomes a lot more straightforward and easy for the players to just lock in and focus on the competition part. One of the things we talked to Walker Zimmerman a few weeks ago about Open Cup and he said one of the things he liked is it gives a chance to other players, young players, to get in to stretch the roster. Is that also the case with those bonuses, a chance to sort of like get a little more money in the pockets of a lot of the players who are still trying to break through? Yeah, for sure. I think Walker and I come from an era where, you know, the league has come a long way and guys weren't really making a ton of money at the time. And so

you rely on those bonuses, those appearance fees, their start fees. I think those are really important. And I think for young players trying to make a name for yourself, trying to break into a roster, start to, you know, put a stake down for a claim on a position or multiple. I think it's incredible value in terms of opportunity and the stage that it's on now, guys are having good performances. And although the Open Cup is a domestic one, the League's Cup gets a lot of foreign viewership as well. So I think that's just going to help everybody involved. And I think guys are taking advantage of it, as we've seen. You've been in the league for a little bit, and you've been around Nashville since the start. And I think one of the things that's really

been exciting to watch this year for a lot of people from afar has been the shift in in Nashville. I think Nashville known as this defensive core, this base for many years and had success with it for sure, right? Leaks Cup finals and playoff appearances consistently. And now this year, it feels very different. What has the process been like under BJ and sort of how have you lived through it watching this team now change with a lot of the same players there in the way you guys go about your game? Yeah, I think, like you said, the core group has been here and has sort of evolved through each iteration year by year and this phase shift most recently with BJ has been something that a lot of guys have just leaned into right away. And he's incredibly

demanding and clear about what he wants from the group and on an individual level. He believes in guys and he gives him license to play both sides of the ball as effectively as possible. When it comes to my personal role on the team, I've really relished that ability to kind to be a little bit more involved in the attack now. Obviously, getting to be a part of set pieces. Attacking corner kicks has been great. Take some pressure off of the bigger guys. But it's just been good.

I think everybody's finding their groove, being confident, working on things after training, having good conversations with each other. It becomes a lot easier when you have everybody bought in and having some ownership in the process. And I think BJ has done a good job of facilitating that. It wasn't easy. the switch over last year. Was there a moment? Was it preseason this season, a moment where you're like, oh, this clicked, like this is going to work? Yeah, for sure. I think starting the

year off fresh with DJ was really great. And it made a world of difference. But I think everybody was very optimistic, obviously, when he came in the middle of last year, or I guess towards the end of the summer. But I think naturally a group of players that was struggling over the course of that year and even bleeding into the year prior as we finished out 23 i think um i think it was just naturally a little bit like okay we're going to look to bj and just hope that he's going to change everything for us and it's going to like he's going to do it all and that's not the way it works that's not how sports work um and that's not how bj works and i think as we got to get to know him a little bit better especially the new guys that had no background with him um he really gives you

the tools to be the masters of your own destiny, if you will. And I think he really leans on the group to drive itself, to create momentum at the right times, and to stay consistent with our process, and to trust in it and to trust in each other. And I think all of that starting the year fresh, starting with a preseason under our belts with him, getting the group together early. You know, I think it's been really good to have everyone integrated. A lot of guys on the team starting this year have been great additions. And it's really energized and already competitive group. And I think that's what you're seeing as a result. There's a lot of guys to talk about in this group. You mentioned a lot of the new pieces in

central midfield has been a huge change to this team. One of the ones I've enjoyed watching from afar is Eddie TechSeth. It just feels like he's always playing at 100 miles per hour, but he's always under control and possession as well. For you, as someone playing out of the backline, as you said, trying to push a little bit higher. What's it like having him and Yazbeck and those guys who are maybe a little bit more of a clean blanket in midfield as this team has found its identity. Yeah, I think obviously those guys are really good on the ball and they help facilitate a lot of the things that we try to do, whether positionally or with the ball at their feet.

But at the same time, it's all those in-between moments, second balls, loose balls, that you really see the benefit of having guys that cover as much ground at the pace and at the clip that those two do. You know, I think our midfield, whoever it is, at the same time, can be a really pivotal part of the way we play. We try to stay connected. All phases of the game are our guys up front like to have those guys close to them just as we like to have them protecting what's in front of us. They've just been a huge piece of what we've been able to accomplish. And you know, whether they get smashed in the face and are bleeding and smiling like Eddie was in the Philly game, which was a great moment, or Yazbek just tearing around the field.

I think it's really important to have that sort of tone set in that part of the field. And I think all the best teams historically in this league or any league, quite frankly, the way the sport works, I think having that field position dominated by those guys as a huge asset and one that we're very lucky to have. It's created the platform for the two big guys up front, Haney and Sam Surge. Obviously, we've known Hany for a while. He's played at a high level for a while in this league. and for Sam, this is the big explosion in the golden boot race,

pushing, it feels like, from the front, you are lucky enough to serve the ball into him fairly often. What makes him so great? And what is it maybe as he's been there that you've seen from his movement or his timing that's allowed the team to sort of coalesce and create chances for him? Yeah, I think the main difference

in terms of what we've seen this year is just when it comes to Hani and Sam, just their ability to work together. I think having those, complementary dual threats in that part of the field is very difficult for teams to manage. And I think as a result, you see them offering space to guys in wider positions like Andy Nahar and myself. And when we're able to draw attention to us, it opens space for them in the middle. So I think we're playing that cat and mouse game incredibly well. And at the same time,

there's just moments of brilliance from Sam and Hani where they're able to pull a rabbit out of the hat and really dig the team out of either a tough spot or to capitalize on a team when we have them against the ropes. So I think having that killer instinct and knowing that, you know, Hani has the experience of playing it at an incredibly high level for a long period of time in this league. And Sam finally to have that sniff of excellence towards looking towards the golden boot, I think having that as a pretty easy benchmark for him has kept him really sharp. And he works on his craft so often the two of them after practice almost every day. So when we see it on game night, it's pretty easy. We don't really flinch. But it's a great thing to play with.

one that we're very lucky to have as well. Do you think you and Andy are the best fullback pairing in the league? I'll always say, yeah, it's great to say yes. I'd like to think that we are. Obviously, we're unique. We offer different things. I love playing with the guy. I hope he feels the same with me.

I wish we could pass the ball to each other a little bit more often, but that doesn't always happen. But yeah, it's great. I think more than anything, the way that the team operates, it allows both of us to kind of play. that cat and mouse game and to make sure that we're offering, you know, the guys building out and possession options and for us to progress the ball, just as when we get into the final third, we can deliver a final pass and have that be the change that we need to make in a game.

But it's been great. I've been having just a good of time as anybody watching Andy Dice guys up on the other side. He's a really special guy to play with. And his quality, pairing that with the guys we have up front in the midfield, I think, has been a huge part of our success this year. The fullback to fullback pass, that's the Alistair Johnston era. That's his. Yeah, we sprinkled a few of those in. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. He loves that long ball from the sideline straight to their fullback. You've had some good pairings. Alistair, Shaq, now, Andy, it's been a really strong position for this team, as has the whole back line in the time you've been there. It's been good. I mean, we've had some rotation as it

pertains to that. Obviously, the right side of the field has been not a revolve. door, but we've had guys come and do a really good job and move on to other things, and it's been great. But yeah, I think Jack Mayer's been a huge help and having some consistency in there, along with Walker. I know he hasn't been available as much as he would like to, but stuff happens. We all have years like that. But just having his presence and getting back in the training has been fantastic, and having him ready for this final push of the year is really important. For you, you know, Toronto originally, then you go to Montreal and now Nashville for these five years. What does Nashville mean to you?

Like, what does this city represent and what have you found there? Oh, man, it's, I've thought about it a lot. It ends up being super simple. I think, you know, early in my career versus coming to Nashville. I think this was the first time I ever came somewhere where I was really wanted. And I think when I came in, I was being asked to do nothing other than just be myself into a position, into a leadership role that I felt very comfortable right away and having a lot of familiar faces and guys that I just jelled with right away

with Walker and Dax McCarty, Adabal Godoy, Joe Willis. These were guys that made the team so much fun to be a part of right off the bat. So once we got 2020 out of the way with the COVID year, I think the team kind of took shape in a lot of ways that people didn't necessarily expect. And I think on a personal note, it's been really fun to grow and to be a part of that team. and to know that, you know, this is the sixth season with the team, but I still feel like I'm growing and evolving and being able to showcase parts of my game

and improve parts of my game that are going to help the team on both sides of the ball. So that's exciting. That's been invigorating. I'm glad there's some statistical backing to that, and it's not just like a feeling that I have. Everyone knows their own truth, and I'm very happy here. It's been a great experience and one that, you know,

we're looking to put an exclamation mark on a Wednesday. What would it mean to lift a trophy, to lift a U.S. Open Cup, for this club. Obviously, we have the narrative and the detail of the historical relevance of the first professional sports trophy in Tennessee. That wasn't something I was aware of until this year. BJ brought that up.

That's pretty eye-opening. Just understanding what it means for the market, knowing that, look, every sports team has its ebbs and flows. But as it pertains to us, the Tennessee Titans, the Nashville Predators, we've seen when the team can be competitive, how much the city rallies around it. And we know that we've been able to. to be sort of a beacon of consistency in the competitive nature that we show day in, day out, year in.

But after last year, I think we knew we had to ratchet it up a notch. And I think that's what we've seen this year. And the response has been fantastic. So it would meet a lot. I think for the core group of guys that have been here for a long time, guys like Taylor Washington, that have been on the team since the USL days playing in the baseball stadium. That's special. that's hard to quantify or qualify exactly how that would impact those guys and what they've built

here and what we've continued to grow here in this state and in this city. But the group is just we've had good experiences that lead us up to this moment. And I think we have a lot of guys that are really focused and understand what it's going to take. You haven't been able to rest, though, in the league because the Eastern Conference is a meat grinder in 2025. You guys exploded it out of the gates against Houston on the weekend. You get the early goal. You get the red card. You dominate. That puts you for this season, and I'm sure you're aware of this, but for everyone else out there, on 53 points in sixth place right now in the Eastern Conference. Last year, at the end of the year, 53 points would have had you in fourth in the east.

So you are currently behind that with still two games to go. Have you seen anything like this? Is this the best conference you've ever played in? it definitely is the best conference i've ever played in um obviously the age old sort of debate is each year is the west or the east better yeah um and i guess early in my career it always felt like the west sort of had the edge with those galaxy teams and the sounders were always great um lafc's always been competitive since they've come in um but i think this year it's been a different animal for sure. I think, to be honest, I'm one of the guys that tries not to look

at all, really. I just feel like it's super straightforward if you try to win every game you play. And if you get as close to that as possible, you're probably going to be in a really good spot. And I think obviously you've got to do some math and some scenario planning. As you get closer to decision day, I know that's different for each

club given where they are. I remember I was trying to do some wild calculations last year as we were trying to sneak in. But as it comes down to it. That's each team's individual and unique journey. I think for us this year, it's just about focusing on ourselves and knowing that we certainly have a lot of other teams that are in the mix, but we also have a lot of good separate bodies of work against those clubs that are in and around us. And we know that we feel confident in the way that we compete

when we play against them. And I know that there are a lot of teams that are going to be difficult to play against, including us in this playoff format. And we're just looking forward to wherever and however that comes to shape. Yeah, you guys have had some wild results against the Orlando's of the world, Philadelphia, as you said, and you've played tight with pretty much everyone else towards the top. From the outside, we were all trying to figure out what this looks like in the end. And, you know, the math for you would be right now you're three points away from third place and from eighth place. And that is a huge range.

And it feels like anyone in there could fall in any direction because of how good the teams are. but it's been really fun to watch from afar, and I'm sure you've enjoyed it on the inside as well. It's true. Again, like I said, it's not necessarily a precarious situation that we find ourselves in because we have a lot of trust and confidence in what we're doing here.

But just to reiterate, it's all about us and we're in control of our own destiny and knowing that if we focus on winning every game that we play, things become relatively simple, and accomplishing that becomes just one, one sort of focus. And I think that's where we're at one thing at a time. Let me finish you on this one, which is we kind of have this weird wrinkle now in Open Cup because it's regionalized. You play a Western team. So a team that you're not as familiar with in Austin. It's going to be a Q2

stadium on Wednesday night for a chance to lift the trophy. It will be the first final ever in Q2 stadium history. And it would be the first Open Cup for both Nashville and Austin to win it. What does the matchup look like? What's sort of the focus in the conversations? Oh, it's great. I think obviously we're aware of all the external stuff going on, like you said, first final for them, first open cup final for us, first one they're hosting, the East-West dynamic, all that, the Music City, whatever they're going to call it. I'm sure there's a cute name somewhere for it. I won't make that one up. I'm not creative. Okay, okay. Someone will do it. Don't worry. But yeah, I think all that stuff is great. And look, in years time, when we're all old, we can look back and say, oh, we were actually in the first one, and it was Austin, Nashville, and we were there, and whatever happened happened, and that'll be cool. But that's just the phase of the league that we're in right now, and it doesn't change

the fact that we have a game to win on Wednesday. And I think for us, we're not going to try to reinvent the wheel here or try to do anything super special or super creative in terms of how we're going to go about it. I think we're going to approach it like any other game. It's a good opponent that's in a good vein of form right now. They're confident. But as are we? this is what finals are made up

it's just about coming together and you know this is why they put the east versus west in the MLS Cup because it's fun to see teams from different sort of hemispheres of the leagues landscape come together and a one-off that is for everything so it's cool that it reflects that dynamic

I think it makes it a really cool product from a broadcasting MLS perspective I think it's really cool I think they got lucky or they got what they wanted in terms of a narrative and everything. And like I said, that's up to them. And it's not necessarily our concern

other than being focused on winning the game and doing whatever we have to do. One of the narratives that's fascinating to me is you are one of the top three possession teams in the league. We talked about the style, the way it's come together. Austin is a team that as the season's gone along has ceded possession.

They have been in the bottom now five or six. How do you balance being in a final and playing your game without exposing yourself, and where does that sort of balance come in across a team as the game plays out? Yeah, I think no matter what possession is somewhat misleading in games, and I think that's been said a lot, and people sort of bang that drum for a little bit now

that 65, 70% possession doesn't necessarily when you're going to be dominant in the game and create dangerous chances. it's sometimes can be far from the truth. So I think for us, we try to play a very balanced game in terms of our compactness, how we defend and how we attack, and just make sure that we're all doing it together. Obviously, at the same time, you know you can't always score goals without taking risks,

and it's understanding when are good moments to take those risks, what are those risks, and how can we be set up to make sure that we're not playing into the opposition's hand in any way, shape, or form. So that's, again, all stuff that's detailed in the game plan, stuff to be aware of, guys to be aware of. They offer a lot of stuff that we need to respect and be wary of as it pertains to counterattacking and guys they have up front that are in a good vein of form. But knowing what we do well is really important.

Again, not trying to reinvent the wheel, just trying to do what we do better and maybe add some nuance to it based on who we're playing against. So it'll be fun. I think we're all very much looking forward to it. We know it'll be a very different atmosphere and sort of vibe to the game we played the other night against Houston, having all the players on the field for one, and then having a team that's incredibly confident and playing a final as well as a big deal for them, just as it is for us. So I think they're going to meet us eye to eye, and I think we're going to be prepared

to execute whatever the game plan is exactly. I'm not a Nashville expert, but I assume Broadway is a pretty good place to celebrate a trophy, right? I've heard. I've heard of that street. Yeah, I know that's here somewhere. I don't know. I look forward to it. Hopefully, fingers crossed, we're covering that for you all after this, but either way, we are so excited for the final. Thank you for taking the time to join us, and we'll talk again heading into the playoffs. Sounds like a plan, man. Thanks for having me. Tom, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for making me experience all my pain about the New York Mets publicly and with other people.

I hate you for it. And thank you for filling in for me on Thursday. You're going to be with Joe Larry, one of the best, so it's going to be an awesome show. I'm very, very jealous of that one. you'll have the reaction to all things open cup coming out of that game, which will be big, and then talking about the weekend upcoming. Yeah, looking forward to that. That'll be fun.

Always sad not to do it with you, but we'll soldier on and we'll get it done. Always glad to talk to Joe Lowry. Also, I'm on morning footy. It's on Paramount Plus Monday through Thursday. Today's Monday, so that already happened. But if you're around in the morning and you have a Paramount Plus subscription, you see this familiar dumb mustache on TV, feel free to tune in. We're going to be talking some Open Cup amid the Champions League and everything else.

So, Gus, I know you'll be there. I know you'll be locked in. Yeah, I will be locked in the entire time. We have Kickback Committee coming out tomorrow. We're going to be doing a whole episode of Open Cup coverage. We'll be talking to a lot of different voices who will be around the game. We're talking to one of our favorites, Mr. Kalen Carr, as an analyst to help break it down. And then some fans in both markets.

We've also got your Yeager Meister Cup coverage as well. So we're working on some interviews to prep for that one, a Sacramento host Hartford, and that one coming up this weekend on Saturday night at 10 p.m. Eastern Time. So thank you to all of you for being here. Thank you to all of you for hanging out with us listening. Please rate, review us, leave everything on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast. Tell someone to listen to us as well. We'll talk to you again.

Very soon. Thank you.