SoccerWise - USOC MLS vs USL Reaction & Weekend Preview w/Joe Lowery(Backheeled)

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

We were all locked in for a chance at up to 16 Cupsets in this round of the USOC action and boy were we disappointed. Just one lone upset (all hails the hounds) by a lower division team has David getting together with Tom & Joe Lowery (Backheeled.com) to discuss what we learned. Then they talk about their favorite stories so far, Daniel Gazdag's new contract, and look forward to an interesting weekend of action.5:30 USOC MLS vs USL Dominance13:20 Biggest Performances of The USOC Round25:25 Joe Lowery On Phoenix vs Houston36:50 Whitecaps & LAFC Recent Form w/Joe44:35 Celebrating San Diego w/Joe52:00 Tom On Gazdag's New Contract & CLB vs PHI57:35 MIN Getting Ready For Miami Test1:02:30 ORL & NER Elite Defensive Squads  Soccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

SoccerWise is back. David Goss, Tom Bogert here with you on a Thursday morning. I don't even know what to say. This is, of course, your US Open Cup reaction show. This is going to be an MLS Weekend Preview Show. If you're listening to the show. This is going to be an MLS weekend preview show. If you're listening to the podcast, you're going to hear Joe Lowry, one of our favorites, coming up soon. He was on the ground at Phoenix Rising against Houston Dynamo. Walk us through a little bit about what he saw in person. Help us preview the weekend as well. So if you're watching live, you got to go to the podcast to find that. Tom, we started the last show, and I think someone sent us a side talk video of Bing Bong, and they said basically the live watch

of the Open of Soccer Wise. What are they gonna say now? Smoking in the Boston Pack, baby! What do you do now? But dude, it's the data. The data says the shot's gonna go in. If they hit those shots, man, those shots are coming. If the data says, well, actually the shot quality was like a 1.3.

So they got 1.3 points every time they took that shot. So I don't think that they calculated that into the final score. I'm gonna need to see the last two minute report from the NBA officials to tell me if they added the math right on the, you know, that was a 2.1 shot. That was a 1.4 shot. Yeah. Three officials, I think that in the 11 games they've refereed the Celtics on the, you know, that was a 2.1 shot. That was a 1.4 shot. Three officials, I think that in the 11 games they've refereed the Celtics this year,

they were 11 and now the Knicks took 10 free throws in this game. And yet somehow persevered. It's almost like heart matters. It's almost like spirit matters. It's almost like the grind is real. You prepare for what you do. It's the Tom Volgert special.

He's in the mind. He's eating lasagna pizzas. He's for what you do. It's the Tom Bogart special. He's in the mind. He's eating lasagna pizzas. He's eating ziti slices. He's crushing Miller lights. And when the lights come on, he is ready to shine. That's what this is here for. Dude, the only thing I'm worried about is like, bro, we could have gotten like, you know, the 72nd overall pick, but we traded it from Mikael Bridges. I don't know if we're going to recover. It's like, I remember one time Matt Doyle watched a preseason game between the Knicks and the Wizards and assured us that that Bridges is bad. So just the mental fortitude to be able to come back from like

losing on such a big stage of like the Washington Wizards and preseason to do this. It's just like, we're going to need a 30 for 30 on that on that Wizards and I do think the Nets Open Cup run in about five years with all those draft picks all those eighth graders that are gonna really break through for them is gonna be impressive I do think it's something that when you're looking at Westchester SC and Brooklyn FC coming in like they're gonna have to worry about the Nets in a US Open Cup game we'll just talk about the playoffs though. Like that's what we'll do And when you're such a blue blood franchise like ours, it's it's that's that's all the man. Yeah can't think of other competitions

it is My brain is broken. I haven't slept basically in 24 hours because I've just been on a high I was telling Tom this before we started, but my, my, obviously the Knicks are near and dear to my heart. My Knicks experience is about a 24 hour cycle because my oldest friend who is as big a Knicks fan as I am lives in England.

And so he sleeps through games and then wakes up, watches them before work and then messages me. So if things like yesterday happened or like when the Knicks traded for Kat, like things like that, lucky as I'm ready to go to sleep, so I was sitting in bed, watched the Phoenix Houston game, did not put on the San Jose Sacramento game, did not feel like it was competitive. I'm watching that and you're like, okay, Jack McGlynn, Stunner, this game's starting to close up.

I'm just about ready to go sleep. I have posted 900 Instagram stories. I have sent 500 blue sky messages making fun of the Celtics or pumping up the Knicks. I'm just there. And then I get a message from him. Are you kidding me? This team? And now back. All of a sudden at 1 45 in the morning, I'm back around on the other side and ready to run. So it was a life experience for sure. You of course, professionally host a morning show sometimes. You had some different responsibilities and either way. We could have had a phone call at 4 a.m. when I was waking up and you were going to sleep.

Yeah, we probably should have done a recap. Either way though, you know, when you had that morning, that coffee this morning, it just tastes a little bit, yeah. That's that feeling. That's the feeling of victory. And by the way, the Mecca opens on Saturday. So, you know, the real garden is about to come into play. Anyone who wants to talk any smack to us, feel free. The door is always open.

I am here for you at any time you want. We have a bunch of US Open Cup action to dig into. And we've got some really good games on the docket, by the way, for this weekend in MLS, which I think it's one of those with Open Cup where you don't look towards the weekend and then we just sat down to get ready for this and you take a look at the schedule and like, oh, oh, oh, oh. So there's some good games to go there as well. And as I said, we'll have Joe Lowry on the podcast to help to dig into some of this.

The big storyline is the big storyline though. It is not one individual game. In the round of 16, 16 matches played between MLS teams in lower division sides three third division teams one MLS next pro two USL League one and then again math with me on this show 13 USL championship teams. MLS teams went 15 of 16 in not their return to US Open Cup because they never actually technically fully withdrew and not a full return, because not every team is back. But there is no other storyline to hit than the full dominance of MLS teams.

And I would say on Tuesday night, we probably wouldn't have worded it this way, right? You had two games go to extra time, you had tight games across the board. It felt like, okay, kind of normal. Sometimes the ball will bounce this way, sometimes it won't. Then you only had one game go to extra time on Wednesday night.

You had the Pittsburgh Riverhounds. Shout out to the Hounds. I'll hail the Hounds. We will get into that game. And then you just had some pure dominance, some blowout. Morgan asked us not to talk about the Florida Derby. That one's going to be a tough one to avoid. And shout out to Mike in the chat who we absolutely love. One of the best

at the Orlando Lions then podcast. But you had these blowouts. Tom, does it give you pause or are you talking to anyone saying, oh, this makes people feel differently than they did two days ago, let alone a year or two ago? Yeah, I mean, for me, I think it's just nothing new in terms of I guess the goal from quality. And like, again, that's not a knock on USL at all. That's just the nature of these leagues, and particularly with the difference in spend and infrastructure and everything else between MLS and the USL Championship, different than, let's say, the Bundesliga and the two Bundesliga or the Premier League and championship. It is just different. So it's like, it's not, it's nothing new. And I think that some years, like you said, Goss, like, hey, maybe a couple of like, last night, Philly beat India 11 in penalties.

Like, in another year, maybe that would have been, you know, four or five of 16 that got through. So it was a lower number. I don't think that this means every year we're gonna be looking at it and thinking this way But this is definitely lower than I would have expected. I would have thought for a handful But here we are there were a couple hard fought games and like you said there was more than a few Blowouts like you know the Orlando the Red Bulls DC Charleston like Charlotte, North Carolina I know that game was to extra time, so that's different, but they ran out of steam when they got past 90 minutes. I think to me that is the most telling thing we saw,

and I'm curious what Joe saw on the ground, but the depth. And so the extra times actually played into this, whatever you wanna call it, narrative or reality, which is the depth across an MLS roster is just so much greater than what a USL championship team has that not only could you rotate the team, time's being checked on to make sure he's alive

because he's been screaming. Probably somebody's like, I think Tony Meola is on the other side of this wall when we're recording a podcast. We're talking McCutcheon, baby. This is Jersey Lab right now. Let's go. Tell Tony to come on in.

So that depth, I think it was the depth and ability to rotate and still put together strong performances for MLS teams, but especially late in games for Austin FC to make the comeback for North Carolina and DC to get over the line in extra time for Houston. Like Jack McGlynn came off the bench in this game in place of Eric Duaneos, who's probably a high level USL championship starter, if not a star on a team, if he was there. And so that depth I think really showed.

I think part of it is some credit to the Academy setup because we've got the Caraballo love. We'll talk Kevin Sullivan coming up. I thought Brooklyn Reigns was phenomenal once again. Someone I talked about on Tuesday's show and way more examples of that because a lot of teams like Caleb Porter talked about are using Open Cup as an opportunity

to blood the two players that they have in Next Pro and in the Academy in this Pro environment. We're just gonna be saying a lot of the things we've already said, but on that point, this is why all 30 or 27 American teams should always be in the Open Cup. Use your Academy, use your second team, use your bench players. I understand like the match days makes it a little bit difficult. Use your full squad. Like again, first of all, let teams do what they want. If they want to play their starting 11, sure, go ahead, good luck.

But all these teams have enough players, if not just on the first team, but in the second team, in the academy, that the first few rounds of the Open Cup, you play all of your kids, you play all of your bench, you play all your rotation guys, and then you're still alive in the quarterfinals, then that's when the first team starts or the first team starts. It's like, it's just so frustrating that this is how it should be. It's not that complicated. Yeah.

And I would say you probably get a lot of payoff for those young players. The experience they get here is the experience you want. Next Pro is not fully there, right? This is the point of the original setup of having two teams go into the USL championship, right? Because you wanted your young players to go to Pittsburgh and experience the fans against them

and experience these players playing for something that's bigger than them. You want them to play against Omaha with a little bit of pressure that you have to be the big dog and you're supposed to win and everything else like that. And I think there's a number of examples in this round, Nicotas Karras getting minutes against a Sacramento

where you saw the learning moments for these young players that you want them to experience. And so you lost that for half the league, basically, right? Didn't get the opportunity to do that. And then you lost that as well because you don't get as many rounds of this because you don't have as many teams. this because you don't have as many teams So you would have probably had more MLS teams come in in the previous round and then the better MLS teams come in in

This round and you would have had more games in this now We'll talk about fixture congestion and obviously you get into CBA stuff Which is a small part of this of like getting players into that first team for these games and whatnot I think all of that is very fixable if the league wants to do it, which is if you pay people what they're worth and what they're valued. They're probably okay with having more soccer games played at a high level and helping build up the environment around all of this. But you see situations, I mean, the Orlando one just because it keeps popping up because

Tampa is a high level USL championship team, even though it's been a tough start to the year and they fired their manager, but you rotate Ramero Enrique into the team. So this is a fully fledged international signing that you actually thought was gonna be the starter, that's your rotation into the squad. And I don't know if that depth feels different than in the past.

I don't know if maybe MLS teams across the board have actually done a little better with international signings where in the past this was Gonzalo Verón and you're like, well, Gonzalo Verón sucks and they just blew that signing and maybe we have more examples that teams didn't. Or this is the reality, which is I think if you look back at some failed signings, you look at two goals in an open cup and you're like, oh, I forgot about that game. And I forgot about that performance. And so I think teams have done this in the past and maybe I just didn't remember

because we hadn't seen a full MLS teams in a US open cup in a while. So I think that depth stood out, the depth and quality. And then obviously entrusting some of these Academy players and what I love about this setup, and we can start to talk about Kevin and Carball and all of this is I've said this a million times playing 11 kids though is tough like no one can lean on anyone so you get these players in these groups with Ali Bedoya getting starts and Cesar Aragho

getting starts alongside these players and it's like that's the perfect opportunity for these players to come into a game and just if they do their job, it's enough. They don't have to be bigger than themselves. They don't have to find the game and that's the right way to introduce players. And I think we saw a decent example of that for a chunk of these teams over the course of this week. One of the complaints has been that NYCFC didn't play a Maxi Carrizo in this round.

They didn't play some of their homegrown players and they were the only MLS team to lose. They lost on a 96th minute quarter kick header in a game that had plus five minutes of stoppage time. So basically the last kick of the game on the banks of the, I don't know, I'm just going to say Cuyahoga. I don't know the name of any of the rivers in Pittsburgh, but I know they all exist and they're all there. And it was an epic moment.

And it lines them up now with a potential, or not a potential, it lines them up with the next round game against Philadelphia. But it was the lone cup set that we got. I titled the show No Sets, because I didn't know how to word the lack of cup sets in this one. And it gave us that juice for a little bit

Early on this Wednesday of like oh this might be coming Yeah, then that was an earlier game and like what an end to the game like so as you said like so there was a tiny of a savage Got sent off in the 78th minute when it was nil nil and then the goal comes on a corner kick comes from two substitutes I'm sorry the the player who drew the red card was a substitute the player who scored E Drak was a substitute. It's a really nice header and like just those scenes were awesome. All right, like what else do we have tonight? Well, we had nothing else tonight in terms of upsets and stuff like that. There's some really good games. I'm awesome FC with More a pretty strong starting 11 including the Zuni and and Vazquez were down 2-0 to El Paso

at home. They ended up coming back and winning 3-2 with three goals in the last 20 minutes. So yeah, there was some potential, there was some hope for some of these fireworks, some of these cup sets that we love about cup competitions and ultimately fizzled out and the Pittsburgh Riverhounds stand alone. And the Riverhounds, of course, Bob Lilly, a legend in the game, has been around this block numerous times,

understands how to keep teams in tight lines, understands how to keep the game in front of them. NYCFC, it's been a convo the whole year, lack of that killer instinct, lack of that final ball. When you talk about depth, this is not one of the teams you think of where you're like, oh yeah, no, you have a second option at this position,

especially in the attack to be game changers. They are struggling to find that at the MLS level. So to bring it into open cup, it's kind of one of the ones you would have targeted and said that they would probably struggle in a moment like this. And that was the lone upset that we saw. As you said, they now will play against the Philadelphia Union, which is cool.

Right? This is the exact matchup that you want. Philly against Pittsburgh. We can pull a Nick Kroll skit out of here somewhere. It's one of my favorite skits of all time. I'll send it to you later. And anyone who knows, knows. I assume everyone from Pittsburgh and Philly already knows.

And this is the exact type of rivalry match that you want This is why you want this cup in this opportunity and because we haven't had MLS teams that was part of why I think on Tuesday I was so excited was in Canada. You're seeing like the same matches over and over It's a smaller country with less teams But because they regionalized it it's the same over and over and we had Oakland roots when we talked to them going into their home Opener they were like, yeah, it's really cool what El Farolito is doing, but we don't want to play them for like a third straight time. So the regionalization, you lose some variance, although clubs keep coming in, but because

we've been away from this now for two years of having it, it was exciting to see all these teams on the field at the same time and to get matchups. And now this is the lone big one. Although we will have an all Texas affair in the next round in Austin against Houston. You mentioned Austin able to have the comeback victory. Some other big ones that stood out to me, of course, Kevin Sullivan getting his first start for the Philadelphia union.

I think Jonathan Tanowald put it out that his father had ended up playing in open cup Maybe his grandfather had as well all the way father, right and obviously Quinn has brother So yeah third generation fourth in the family to play in a US Open Cup. It's football heritage, baby. I Was really cool and look he left at all 120 minutes They needed penalties, but they get through on penalties and I hope that this means he starts the next game against Pittsburgh. So, like, again, to go back to what we were talking about before, this is like, I don't blame Philly for not starting him in MLS play.

They are flying. They have plenty of options in the position. Quinn is un-dropable. Indiana Vasilev has been very, very good. There odd like This is the obvious point to get young and again Let's Kevin Sullivan is one of one at the moment right it should have been for maxi grizzo It should have been for other players or even if you look on this Philly team David Vasquez gets his first start I hope that both of them start again against Pittsburgh in the next round Kevin Sullivan from what I've seen I didn't get to watch the game. He looked solid. He had the moments the numbers look good You know I like I hate to boil it down to a foot mob rating, but positive foot mob rating, stuff like that. It's a good way to start for a kid who's 15. And again for a team

where they don't have as much depth, I think you'd say, as other MLS teams, but one, they want to push their academy players into the team. So you're able to get Rick, a starting goal who they believe in a ton. You're able to get David Vasquez into the group as well. Kavin gets the start, but you get Damiani another start, right? This is a guy who wants to find his feet, who's looking to get comfortable in this group. There's a big expectations on his shoulders. He comes in, Jesus Bueno, who I still think is an MLS level starter. He gets a start in this one. So like, that's the advantage for a game like this and Ali Badoia gets the start, gets the goal in the six minutes, still has it fun to watch. And that's the crazy dichotomy of this team.

You have Badoia at what 37 on one wing and you have Kevin Sullivan at 16 15 15 on the other wing. No, he's still 15. Yeah, dude. Yeah, he's he's 15 until he's 16. Oh, no way and then after that Yeah, and then after that he might be 17 We'll get we'll try and call we being from the road and see if we can get an update on this I know he's a bit of an expert and then Carballo as we said helping two goals in the domination Against Tampa Orlando didn't play with their food. They got the work done early As we said, helping two goals in the domination against Tampa.

Orlando didn't play with their food. They got the work done early. They dominate up 3-0 at halftime and just put the game away. I think for a club that's looking to contend across multiple competitions, they are now nine unbeaten across all competitions. Orlando, I think they feel like they've got a shot to push towards the top of the Eastern Conference. We'll talk about that coming up.

This was the type of performance you want to see going into their building, a ton of juice for Tampa, coming into this long home stand after not having their building open and all this celebration and everything else going on. I think for Orlando, that's the type of performance you want. And Karbala has been a difference maker. He was a difference maker in the game against NYC FC in MLS play. He's been good again

Going to the GA Cup and helping them win it He's been good in MLS next Pro and so to see him continue that at that next step is awesome And you could have a right side of homegrown for a club that has been starving For homegrown minutes you could start games with Freeman and Caraballo along the right wing going forward like that is mind blowing and it opens up a ton of possibilities for them to move this roster around and maybe get a little more depth at Central Midfield, whatever it is as they go forward. Shout out to former New York Red Bull 2 legend and Rutgers grad, Joey Zelinski for a big timetime goal for st. Louis Joey You're a good kid. You're a good kid. Tell Tony that Joey had a good goal. Has he seen it tone? Have you seen it?

It was an epic goal for st. Louis the opening goal As I said Red Bull Academy kid who ended up getting drafted out of Rutgers to st Louis has been in their next pro team gets gets into the first team for this one. Shaul Klaus gets a goal in this one. Omaha have a history of being giant beaters and normally they let teams beat themselves. Like they find that perfect balance of extending themselves but not too much.

St. Louis, this is a good day for them. And this is for a club that can't score goals. Maybe this is something that they can use to sort of push themselves going forward. Exactly and that's kind of the hope. Again, I feel like I'm just gonna keep on reiterating because like any game by game take break down isn't I don't think necessarily wise but like it's the overall picture and like what it can mean going forward and these are the tenets that you take for it. You get a good performance, whether it's individually or collectively, you get a couple goals and

look like when you're playing lower league teams, you're expecting to beat them and you're expecting to play well, you're expecting to carry the game. It gives you more of these reps and options and goals and performances. So it's a good one to keep it moving and keep it moving forward but um again like i don't know if that's going to directly translate but it certainly doesn't hurt so we get uh in the next round and in the end by the way san jose closing out uh two one in the end against sacramento they were up two zero riding pretty high the red card changes things sacramento didn't score until like the 95th or 96th minute. And there was the craziest goal you will ever see

in the Dallas AV-Altagame in which Leal, I think is his name, plays a long ball too far or is trying to chip the goalie. It bounces about 40 yards from goal. Colito mistimes it, doesn't understand it. He starts backtracking. the bounce goes over his head. And in, it made it 1-1 at the time. It was a good bounce back game for Dallas

after the mauling in San Diego. They have had the weirdest 12 to 14 days we've ever seen to go to Miami, come from behind, win, go to San Diego, get smoked, and now win this Open Cup game in bizarre fashion. I will say and this is unfortunate coming out of the whole thing which is we and I think people that are fans of soccer wise and in our community are obviously not the norm which is why I appreciate everyone. We were all so devastated about what's happened Open

Cup we are so excited about it. I do not think the crowd showed that in the MLS markets. I think that's part of what's been hard about this, is like you see the excitement in the non-MLS markets, but I think for the most part, I think Philly was 50% attendance, St. Louis. Yeah, it's like 9,000. St. Louis, a city that full credit, like packs the building for a next pro game every year.

FC Dallas, it did not feel like a huge crowd out there for that game. And I get it. Like, it's not as exciting on your side to potentially see your team get upset. And depending on travel, you're only going to get X amount of away fans on weekdays. I don't know if that's turning this into weekends. I don't know if that's trying to force more games out of MLS stadiums so that there is that little bit of extra excitement. The problem is not everyone owns their venue so you get into well we don't know if we're gonna qualify so we're really gonna put a hold on this stadium for this date that we don't know we're gonna be in and all that other stuff. So I think there's there's all these flaws

inside of this. It's still a really fun competition. I still really enjoyed it. I've been excited the whole time. Obviously the De'Moye Menace thing was great, but it wasn't the only one, right? A.V. Alton, Portland Heart of Pines, like starting there, won Knoxville, opening a new building. Like there's been a lot of cool things that have happened in this competition. And that's the potential that exists every time because the sport sports growing and you're going to keep adding clubs across all these leagues or adding more leagues, unfortunately or fortunately, whatever it is. And this is a really good way for like more people to learn about it and to expose all of it. And the CBS broadcast around it was very cool. I think I'm contractually required to say that because Tom is currently

physically in the building. Yeah. The chat is saying, Oh, did very well. The chat is saying, well, the CBS will let Tom out of the pit once he confirms 20 transfer reverse that you are inside of it. If you're not watching on YouTube. OK, sorry. If you are watching on YouTube, you have to go to the podcast now to listen to Joe Lowry, who I'm going to be interviewing later, and we'll put it out as a full show about his thoughts. Well someone who needs no introduction on this show, but I'm going to do it anyway.

The creator, the editor, the head writer of Back Yield, Joe Lowry, you know him very well from Total Soccer Show as well and from here on Soccer Wise. He is of course the person that was standing behind the goal screaming all Phoenix Rising game as you were there as a fan for US Open Cup so Joe thanks for joining us. Yeah thanks for having me on nothing makes nothing makes me feel proud other than the the 12 different hats that you just tossed my way I know I am I'm thrilled with stuff we're doing at backheel but there are there are lots of hats on no doubt about it I got a hat on right now literally right now as we're recording

it's a smoky bear hat. Um, the game last night was so fun It was fun to actually get to go to a game and not and not like work work it that doesn't happen Oh, and I I hate it when people go on on shows and like oh, what was me? No stunt for like oh, you know, it'd be great if this PR team could send me a jersey What I'm like, these are not real people problems Like these are real people requests, but it was so fun Like everybody likes going to soccer game Yes

It was fun to be able to do that yesterday to see Jack McGlenn in person to breed the same hair again I get better than that man. Do you have I on Tuesday? We were asked about our homegrown breakout players that we like we went, you know Tom mentioned to like a human I named 30 right Brooklyn Reigns was one of mine came off the bench yesterday I named 30 right Brooklyn Reigns was one of mine came off the bench yesterday Yeah, I love on the half turn the way he attacks the game. What did you see from him in person? I love I love Brooklyn Reigns. So I've got I've watched Brooklyn Reigns for a really really long time He was out at the Barca Academy It was just the number one city in Arizona, right? Like when you have a chance to go to Casa Grande you you jump on that chance

You don't just take it you jump on it. Um, he was he was many states the Barcelona of yeah of the Southwest Southest desert region between Phoenix and Tucson. Absolutely Reigns was on that Barca u-19 team with Diego Luna with Bryce Duke with Caden Clark with Julian Gain Like a bunch of MLS players on that team and he was the the tempo center like he was the single pivot six in those teams. And he's been a player that I've had on my radar for a while because he was really good. And that was a really good team.

Goes to El Paso, now pops up in Houston. I think he's earning his minutes that Ben Olson is giving him. He's not a player, unfortunately, that I think is ever going to be probably in the US national team pool. Like he just doesn't do anything at a truly exceptional level at this level I think.

But he is a very useful metronomic presence at the base of midfield in the double pivot especially that Olson likes to use. And he looks very comfortable in the ball. He's not fussed under pressure. He's not like an elite line breaking passer which I think is kind of what separates him because he doesn't have great athleticism,

like straight line speed, that kind of stuff either. But I mean, Houston can just collect those guys all day long as far as I'm concerned. Like go get the Jack McGuilens, go get the Brooklyn Rainses. Eric Dwayne, I think fits that. Yeah, yeah, super fun, super fun team. I had a good time. Also, if you don't have any money,

having home-growns that are useful and in your roster, it's probably a pretty good way to go about your build. Sounds like a good idea. It's something we talked about with Orlando, having Caraballo now be a difference maker, having Freeman, it's huge for them but the reason I wanted you to come on is The obvious condo off the top of this episode was 15 of 16 mls teams getting victories in the open cup and we were all

Hopeful for cup sets. We all think it's fun And I think over the last two years we've had mls pull teams out. We've had usl take steps externally by announcing the idea of a D1, the idea of promotion relegation. And then we got to see it all come back on the field. And I think it caught a lot of people by surprise how dominant it was. Phoenix not maybe in the best place right now,

although Houston you could argue isn't as well. I'm curious from what you saw in person and the way you experienced it if It felt like there was a gap or what you sort of put your finger on between the USL championship MLS sort of divide yeah, it definitely felt like there was a gap and I guess the The qualification here is Phoenix are really not in a good place right now just from a fitness perspective Like they were missing three of their four best attackers in this game either due to a red card Or multiple guys due to injury. They're missing

Literally every center back in the roster essentially at the moment So they were not well positioned to play this game to the point where when Houston bring on their big guns see on the second Half of this of this match into the start of extra time That's when you really started to see it You didn't see it so much in the first 45 minutes where Houston still controlled the ball, Phoenix weren't gonna do that, but you did see, you really did see that gap exist. But I think in some of the other games

that I watched over the last couple of days, I don't think that the margin was always massive, right? I think about the Lew City-Minnesota United game. In Minnesota, Eric Ramsey rotated his team hard. You know, Gressil was the guy in that lineup, right? And Lew City put out their best 11, Danny Cruz. But in that game, there wasn't a lot between those teams. I think between the absolute best of the best in the USL championship, and Lew City are that,

right? Between the best of the best in the second tier and like a rotated MLS team, I think you have yourself a game. And I think that's been true for years now. I think there were other games that could have gone the USL's way yesterday. I'm still really high in Sacramento. Charleston are a really good team. There were opportunities there that just didn't get taken. Like I know 16 games sounds like a lot. It's not a big sample size and we have years of sample that says, yeah, MLS is better, no duh. But the USL teams

can go out there and do some of this stuff. You mentioned like USL making steps here. That's gonna be a fun storyline, right? Of what happens in 2030 or who knows what it's gonna be, right, they're saying 2028, I'm a little skeptical about that, but you know, whenever USL goes and does what they say they're gonna do, how that changes things. I have no idea and I imagine it doesn't,

it certainly doesn't flip the script by any means, but it's gonna be something to watch for sure. It's interesting because it doesn't, none of it has a guarantee of quality steps in terms of nothing about saying where a D1 team or there's Pro-Rals says you have to spend more on a roster or you're going to spend more because there are no requirements in that.

The requirements that exist are the net worth of the owners and the stadiums and all of that. So then USL is going to have to decide internally what they want to do. And I think the exciting part for some people with USL is it is less central controlled. And if Louisville City or San Antonio says, yeah, actually, we're going to take a shot at this and we're going to go out and get big name DPs and whatever term they end up using or none.

We're going to go out and get these international superstars to bring in. That's one way to do it. And the other is this depth, like you talked about with Houston's ability to rotate the roster and bring a Jack McGlynn off the bench and have those moments. And I think we saw that across the board, which was the margins got thinner and went away for the USL teams as the games wore along. I think that was the telling point to me on Tuesday night. You had a lot of teams get to extra time, incapable of getting the results in extra

time because you had more depth, you have more physicality as well. This is the one thing I hear from everyone who plays in both leagues. USL is, they say arguably more technical than MLS. MLS does it at a faster, more physical level. And that's where you see a lot of players be great USL players and maybe not be able to swap in Yeah, I think you see that in these you in these US Open Cup games as the games wear along. Yeah I almost completely disagree with that description of the USL being more technical than MLS

But I think maybe this is just a terminology thing, right? I think what MLS is is is what you said It's a faster league, right? And I think about that both in terms of the quality of the athletes, but also just in the speed of play. That's the difference. That's why you and I can't turn up on a USL field or an MLS field. Not that we can't complete a pass, it's that we can't do it fast enough. And I think that is still a huge difference.

I was talking with Emil Queijo, who is a former LA Galaxy player, he's a Phoenix Rising right now. He was with that Sacramento team that made the run to the final, played in the final in 2022 when they lost to Orlando City. And he was talking to me about how, yeah, sort of the differences, he thinks it's a

mentality difference sort of in how serious everybody is when you turn up to training in MLS versus USL, which I thought was interesting, but also just the speed of the game. Maybe there is a physicality element to that. I know we both watched the USL, a lot of USL, I just have a hard time with the with the it might be more technical. Yeah I think I think you just you don't have the Phillies and Red Bulls of the world. Sure. Right so I think if I think sparsing parsing it as a terminology conversation is fair which is what I get from people. Yeah what I get from people who have done it is I think they feel like there's more time to settle and pass and find your options and connect a little more

where there is less of the tactical idea and the tactical idea is only possible because the physical profiles there in MLS of like, yeah, yeah, don't worry about that. Blind balls into the channel, we'll counter press from there. We'll make sure that the game is moving quick enough. We want the speed of play. And I think some of that comes to facilities as well. Right? The speed of

the fields that you have, the way they're set up versus playing on baseball diamonds and all that outside of NYCFC and maybe the refs go in there as well. So it was an interesting night. You got to see the great Jack McGlynn as you said. You got to breathe the same air as him. What a goal too. I mean that goal is unbelievable. I was sitting with Kylian McClatchy, who does the play-by-play with me on the Phoenix Rising Home games. And I was, Jack McGlidden was taking a corner kick,

and Killian doesn't watch a lot of MLS. So I was like, dude, his left foot, like his set-piece service is maybe the best in North America. And he takes a corner and it's like pretty mediocre. He's like, dude, what are you talking about? And then he comes out, Jack McGlidden scores that absolute banger with the left foot. And I just looked at Killian and like, dude, what are you talking about? And then he comes out, Jack the Glitter, and scores that absolute banger with the left foot.

And I just looked at Killian and went, yeah, yeah. Now what? What do you got for me now? It's a great goal. And a really great, great moment in a game where you could just see the depth of this Houston team has, even as an MLS team that's trying to find themselves when Ponce and Linger and McGlin-

I mean, when the pieces come off the bench, you could see it. And this is a Houston team that's- When their number nine and their number pieces come off the bench, you could see it. And this is a huge difference. When they're number nine and they're number 10 come off the bench. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. Just in the right numerical order with the right things on their back. It all makes perfect sense. You can see the difference. And I guess maybe my last big picture thought on the Open Cup, I don't think it's a coincidence that Louisville City play Minnesota tight. I don't think it's a coincidence that Louisville City play Minnesota tight. I don't think it's a coincidence that Charleston forced DC into extra time.

There are teams in USL who do things really well. I think Sacramento as well, like at least keeping things somewhat close against San Jose, even though San Jose get like tripled their shots. I think there are teams in USL that do things so well, and it is just so clear to see which ones you should model what you're doing after. And hopefully Rhode Island continue to turn the right direction and Phoenix will reestablish themselves as a team

worth modeling yourselves after. There are teams at the lower levels who are doing really good stuff. And those are the teams that can reliably keep games tighter at this level, if not every year. Once every three years or two of every four years or whatever it is, the standard is obvious and it's up to the rest of these USL teams

to try to figure out how to mimic what those guys are doing. And I think the draw goes against you sometimes of a lot of the teams you named were on the road. Yeah. Right, like Charleston, those situations where the right year, the right matchup at home, that's where you get the victory,

then you start rolling, then can you put more energy and effort into this competition and try and make it something where you make a push get the victory. Then you start rolling. Then can you put more energy and effort into this competition and try and make it something where you make a push into the end. Indie 11 last year, I think, you know, a bit of a surprise, but they are also one that has invested and tried. They just haven't done it very well over the last few years. And we'll see where things end up in Indianapolis.

Big picture. Let's move into some MLS talk. And then Tom's going to join us again for a little weekend preview action We ran through a bunch of the games, but I wanted to start with this one, which is Vancouver LAFC We missed somehow after mentioning it. It is maybe the best game of the weekend coming on Sunday night, you know, I love me some Vancouver. We've talked about them for years I feel like together as we've been waiting for this to happen. What have you enjoyed and made

of the run they've been on so far? And what do you make of this matchup now for them? Yeah, I mean, the run's amazing, right? I don't even know that I have anything new to say about the run that hasn't already been said because it's the consistency that's been so impressive, right? It's that somehow Jesper Sworn's in his command

and these players have really been unified in how they go and and approach the game despite the fact that I'm pretty sure the roster is worse this year Than it was last year like that's a hill that I probably will die on and The other hill is that not to take Vancouver's nice new toy away from them But LAFC should just go out and hire Jesper Sorensen Like that's that's the most obvious thing for them to do on the planet I've seen a couple names connected to European jobs now that those seasons end of like he's clearly shown that he can adapt to a new league and be a force multiplier. And I think both of us saying this is evil. Yeah. Oh, I agree.

So I it makes me a little sick to say it, but that that's just that's the reality of the situation. They've been so effective and that they're doing it without Ryan Gall is is absurd to the point where, you know, I write about Vancouver every week because on backfield we do Ben Wright and I do these MLS in-depth power rankings, which is more analysis than it is rankings, so the rankings are kind of just the gimmick. And I open with Vancouver, and they lead the column now

basically every week, because they're number one. And so I feel pressure to come up with something really good and insightful for the top team in the column. And I was writing about them the other day, and I realized I just forgot that Ryan Gould existed yeah right that might be the single simplest way I can summarize how good Vancouver has been I could also say they're on an 80-point pace that would that would do the job too which they are but the fact that Ryan Gould is not an essential part of this team makes no sense to me truly

I it boggles my mind that's how good they've been I love Vancouver and I'm juiced for this game on Sunday because lefc Have been a much better team ever since Steve Toronto. Lo announced that he was leaving Maybe it's because they got Portland st. Louis and Houston in those three games and those teams are not good defensively I think that certainly matters But lefc's attack has been so much more effective in those three games And I want to see on Sunday, is that an opponent thing? Or is there something different?

Because in these last three games for LAFC, they've been passing the ball into the box 12.7 times per game. In the first eight games of their season, they passed the ball into the box 6.4 times per game. They basically doubled their box entries via the pass in the last three games, which is when Torenda Losetti was headed out the door.

Like, it's not, I'm not trying to draw a line between those two things, I just think it's funny. But this LAFC team has found something, and now they're gonna get a real chance to test it on the road in Vancouver against the best team on this continent. How much of the improved quality do you put on improved play of individuals,

and how much do you put on David Martinez getting opportunities? I mean, David Martinez should play a lot. That's coming from a guy who's also been a pretty big fan and this is not aged well, but was a pretty big fan right out the gates of Chengui Zundere in MLS. I thought he looked like a guy that was going to be a problem and it just hasn't quite panned out like that. I think you got to get David Martinez on the field.

And I know, I remember listening to you and Tom preseason talking about how Elie Fisier are gonna replace Boguch's goal contributions. I don't remember if it was you or Tom that was like, Martinez is gonna do it. All I remember is I was fist pumping with whoever said that because I think Devi Martinez is amazing. His ability on the ball, he is a more possession oriented attacker than anybody else in the squad.

His ability to drop and to link play, to break pressure. And we saw that against Houston, cause they pressed quite a bit Houston on Saturday. Martinez just solved it for them. There are players that can do that and I think he is maybe the only LAFC player who can do that in any spot. So I love Devin Martinez. So Lundar does some of that in terms of building out into his feet. His feet are kind of safe. He'll drift in. He does, he has not since he joined LAFC shown the threat to also break, beat you 1v1. And I think David Martinez gets them more space because defenders are unsure. Okay, if I get too tight, he will turn and

beat me. And then we're in the open field where Onder it feels like is only looking to either play over the top or to recycle possession, which is bizarre. This is a player that has absolutely broken my brain. Everything about the profile of Sheikah and Zunder, you're like, okay, that's like the thing I want every MLS team to sign. And I watch games and I forget he's on the field or he doesn't start and you're like, oh, this team is better. I get that it's hard to like come into a team in the middle of a season and then know you're leaving.

The whole thing has been absolutely bizarre to me. This game, the other little piece, which I think will keep coming up is just, LAFC have been the bogey team for Vancouver. They knocked them out of Champions League. They've knocked them out of playoffs. Vancouver thinks they outplayed them 85% of the series last year in three games, which I know for you,

is it not a big enough sample size. You'd prefer it to be longer. It should be an 81 game series. Yeah, obviously. You're looking for the full baseball season in that one. But if we're going to try and draw things out of the small cities that we ended up happening, Vancouver felt like they outplayed them and it just felt like they left the season with

this convo of, oh, there's a ceiling without the expenditure on that pure quality at the top. And the buongas of the world are going to bail teams out against you. It's going to be too hard to make playoff runs. So at like the end of all of this where it's been a lot of like, I can't believe this happened. And then the next game, it's even crazier and all of that. This is a really cool matchup to have for them on this Sunday night soccer setup and like having everyone watch and sort of be locked in to be like

Okay, can you prove that you've gotten rid of all your demons in this one? Yeah. Yeah, I love that storyline I mean It's it's back-to-back years that Vancouver and LAFC have played each other in the first round of the playoffs and LAFC have been On the the right end of both of those results. I mean, I'd agree with Vancouver I don't know if I'd say they outplayed them for 85% of the series But the sentiment I'm totally there with there There was basically nothing separating those two teams. And I, like every other person on the planet, thought that they were gonna take a step back

when they lost Stuart Armstrong over the transfer window. And they haven't. They have accelerated themselves into a totally different stratosphere. I still think this LAFC team is really good. I think Vancouver are a better team, that they're at home, I think, obviously is an edge here as well.

It's gonna be a good game. I think Elliott's here. I think they're finding something right now and their summer is gonna be wild, it seems like. And the Undair stuff that you raised is like a one wrinkle on an entirely wrinkly dress shirt. Like there's so many questions. Having a team with one DP and one coach

both acknowledging that they are leaving is like the weirdest setup. So do we know, is Undair for sure leaving? Like is that 100% happening? His loan is up, I believe that they're carrying so much money on his loan that he, no matter what would have to be a DP if he came back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

And so I can't imagine anything you've seen so far is, yes, this is the third DP that we're gonna fill the spot with. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. I mean, there's just so many permutations, like Griezmann is or he isn't, and it's the will-he-won't-he-will-they-won't-they. I don't even know what to make of it,

but I have confidence that LAFC and their floor is just really high still. I think even when they're playing really uninspired, like just bad, ineffective possession soccer, they're still great defensively and they're great in transition. And that's enough. Like that is enough to be a good team. The question is, can they be a great team?

And I think honestly think this game on Sunday is going to tell us something that outside of Vancouver, because of how fun it's been and everyone talking about it and sticking into it once again, we're going to dig into a couple more games with Tom, but what, what are you excited about right now? Like what is your, what are you most excited when you sit down to write, or what are you tuning in for first? Like what has you juiced right now in the MLS sphere? The number one thing is San Diego for me still.

And I think their three game losing streak that they broke in that five no one over Dallas was kind of a little bit of a test for them. And it was also a test for people that were watching them of like oh are they good are they bad you know are we gonna sell our stock and I wrote for back you at the time I'm not selling baby because you watch them play yeah they're bad at some stuff like they don't have centerbacks who thrive in defending in space in transition right and they're built to not have to do that very much

but it's soccer you're gonna have to do that you're gonna lose the ball your center backs are gonna have to defend in scramble moments and they're built to not have to do that very much. But it's soccer, you're gonna have to do that. You're gonna lose the ball, your center backs are gonna have to defend in scramble moments, and they don't seem very good at that. Their on-ball play is dazzlingly good. It is Columbus crew-esque, and even more open than the crew somehow, where the crew, I mean, Wilford Nancy is just so tight and structured around the ball,

and how he sets up with his back three. San Diego feel more expansive, they feel more explosive in how they play. Anders Dreier is my MVP if the season ends today. He is unbelievably good and Chucky Lozano was second fiddle for a while and he's clearly not thrilled with being second fiddle because he's been awesome in the last little bit for them. The goal that they score and they get the drone shot of this at Snapdragon which rules, the goal they score is like an eight or nine pass sequence. It feels like it was 15 when you watch it and it's just beautiful stuff.

Like there is better soccer in MLS right now than any other time I've been covering this league. And I said that last year, and it's better this year than it was last year. Like that's the big picture thing that gets me most juiced. But the fact that San Diego have joined that conversation, Vancouver have too, Columbus are still there. How good they've been is not a huge shock to me,

but it's still like a little bit of a surprise. Yeah. But man, I just can't help myself from turning on San Diego games because there's goals in it, whether they're tossing them in their own end of the field or whether they're cooking in possession. Most often this year it's been the latter. Yeah. It's tuning into the Dallas game this weekend.

I think Dallas has done a good job this year of picking and choosing where and when to press. They sit in their mid-block. Oftentimes it's like Lucho as the 10 sort of helping to decide when to step out and lead. And they've won some games, whether fairly or unfairly, because they've been able to create mistakes. And I think Dallas came out more aggressive than I expected.

Yes. And San Diego does not care. mistakes and I think Dallas came out more aggressive than I expected yes and San Diego does not care and like the first 15 20 minutes of that game I was like yes to the exact point you made we asked for weeks and weeks and weeks on end what would San Diego do if they got punched in the mouth how will they react and they have shown now through enough of a sample size that they're not going to step away from what they do great Whether it's successful or not, they can't guarantee but like they're gonna try and they're gonna play that way I still think in Major League Soccer where the salaries are all pretty close together and what set you apart

I think overall you're gonna win for that and then it becomes roster built to get over the top and build what Columbus did But you're gonna be, the Red Bulls are a playoff team every year because they picked a system and no matter how bad it goes, they stick to the system also because every team gets in. I know you wanted me to say that. So I'll say that as well. And San Diego has stepped into that way, obviously a more enjoyable way that I want to watch, play the game, but they have shown the metal of like Mikey've ours first time head coach expansion team, you're sort of back

against the abyss at some point when you go into a three game losing streak, when it looks as bad as it did at times of like, you're getting crushed over the top. Now two teams have done it to you back to back. So now you're worried, okay, is this the fatal flaw? Can we stick to this style? Chukwila Sanos in and out? They've had other injuries as well. They're playing academy pieces. academy pieces across the team and they've stuck to it and it's been really impressive

to watch and really fun to watch. And we're gonna get into a lot of these games for the weekend. Some weekends we get where it's Clash of Styles, which I think this is what this weekend is, but San Diego gives you another option of when you have teams playing the same style, which is like fascinating now of like,

who's more committed, who can do it right, and also who can defend it. Because so often, pressing teams will always say to you like, oh, we're gonna be good against pressing teams because we do it in practice, so it's not that hard. And they like never are, and it's fascinating to me. So now we get the, can possession teams slow or break down possession teams,

which is something I'd rather watch I love that shout. Yeah, well the pressing teams think they are doing it Well, because I know we played 48 vertical passes. Yeah, right thousands like I bought we didn't know we had no possession So we won the game job done folks. Yeah, I've done I mean what Mikey virus and Tyler heaps and San Diego as a whole like that whole build I think that's part of a broader trend in MLS right now, where I just really think that the level of coaching and the level of identities in this league is better than it's ever been.

Vancouver right now having a clear identity, Columbus of course, Philly have a way that they wanna play. Miami are in their own weird conversation, but Minnesota with Eric Ramsey and what they've built with Khalid Alamad and San Diego. I mean, you run through the list. There's a lot of teams, Brawler in Chicago, even though that hasn't gone great.

Like, you can go pretty far down the supporter shield standings and find teams that it's like, yeah, I believe in what they're doing. Like, I kind of see what's happening there. And that's not often the case, that there is that many of those teams, certainly in this league, but even around the world too. So it's a fun time to watch MLS right now.

Like, I felt that way last year and I feel that way this year even more so. Give everyone a promo of what's on back yield right now if they go over there we've quoted a ton of the articles about what it takes to fund a USL team how much it costs pro rel there's been some fascinating articles there I love everything Ben Wright writes as well as yourself but give people a promo of what they should go find. Yeah. Right now we've got a piece up on what makes Kavin Sullivan so special, which is always like a little bit of a touchy subject if you don't want to dump too much gasoline on that fire, but he got his first start yesterday in the Open Cup. So it felt like a good time

to do that. So that dropped on Wednesday morning. We've got a piece on Vancouver and sort of their, some of their run. We've had a tactical breakdown of them earlier on this year. Rhode Island FC and their new stadium from John Morrissey is sort of his column on why that matters, which I think is really, really well done. One thing that I really like that I haven't gotten a chance to talk about too much other places is every week we've got Rory Kirk doing these like very short but clever MLS animated weekend summaries. We call them MLS Illustrated, and Rory's great.

He's a funny guy, very, very clever, really good at what he does. There's no text, I mean there's little annotations on the article and we'll link to some other stuff, but if you watch an MLS weekend, it's like, oh, I wanna see what I missed. Rory's got something funny that you probably missed. So Rory's done great stuff there too.

I have, this is like the most boomer thing about me. Sometimes I get websites stuck where like you type in the first three letters of a website and it goes to that specific link. Yeah, I'm in the same spot. So mine has been Meet the Sullivan's, America's Next Big Soccer Family from May 17th, 2023, for literally two years now.

Actually almost on the dot, two two years where clearly I read it I think maybe that's when I subscribe. I have no idea what happened. So when I type in BAC That's what comes up. So I love that you have a new Kevin Sullivan article. Maybe that one That'll take the place eventually over time. We'll just keep replacing it. It could be Quinn You know, it could be it could be anybody in the Sullivan family that piece So Sanjay Sujatha Kamal, who does great US stuff for us, he wrote that piece and basically just called it a shot. That piece has aged super well.

Quinn is bawling. Kavin is still exactly who he was two years ago, but more than that. Yeah, shout out to Sanjay. Obviously go subscribe to Back Yield. Go read everything on it. Follow everything that Joe does. He will be back here very, very soon.

And now let's dig into the rest of the weekend with Tom. Tom, let's talk about your weekend thoughts, not Joe's. Let's talk about some of the stuff we wanted to dig into. And let's start with the Daniel Gosdott contract news, because not obviously transfer windows closed, but this is a huge deal for Columbus. And the reason they made the trade was for him to be a permanent part of this group going forward. The reason he pushed his way out a permanent part of this group going forward. The reason he pushed his way out a little was because he wanted this deal and I think

it should be comforting for Columbus fans that this got done. Yeah, I mean, I'd guess that like the T's weren't crossed and the I's weren't dotted at the time of the trade, but I believe on this show I would be saying that part of this is going to be a new contract. So glad to get that done, glad for it to be official and no questions about it. Again I don't think anybody was asking any questions about it because I think it was understood. But you know, Lucho's put us in a place where like nothing means anything sometimes.

I would also, and like again this isn't a gossip, it's like just a wider sports thing. And again, we're talking about NBA all the time Usually you sign a contract then answer a trade that I know that that's not the case all that often I'm going to the Celtics baby get more losers in the building losers Um, so yeah, so you're speaking of a winner Daniel got that. Um, yeah, I like It's good for this to be done It's good for this to be done. It's good for this to be announced. And so, you know, it's Rossi and Gazdag as you're attacking cornerstones for now. Probably use that last DP spot on a center forward and

I'll kind of take it back to talking to Issa Tal and Wilford Nancy after the trade and they were like, look like yeah DP9, DP9. Like we don't look at it that way. We look at a profile. We look at Daniel Gaza's gonna be a goal scorer and score goals. I still think it ends up as a DP9 when it happens, but they don't conform to some of those norms and they care about qualities more than like traditional positioning. So that all being said, you know these two are two of your three attackers and then you build from there. I will add in, so the deal is guaranteed through 27 with an option for 28. He's 29

years old so it's perfect timing right it's through his prime. It also may be for a player who plays in a World Cup in your country and that's both for Columbus and for potential sell on value later like he has been in and around the Hungary national team. 900 teams make the world cup now, so Hungary has a potential to do it. So all of that makes sense. He was out with an injury this weekend. They're saying, they're hoping that he'll be available coming up this weekend, which is for a huge one. It's Philadelphia against Columbus.

Two of the top three teams in the Eastern Conference, hands down. Huh? Homecoming games in Philly. Gozdog returns. Ooh, Philly fans. Loving fans. This is going to be a good one for everyone involved.

It's also, it's this clash of styles that we've seen. I still go back to, Nansay's first game with Columbus was on the road at Philly. When there was expectations that Philly were going to be an MLS Cup contender, they smoked Columbus and you came out of it being like, oh, actually, I think Columbus has the idea. But Philly was a step too far for them to contend at that point. And obviously the world has changed a lot since. I think now this is a barometer for Philly.

Can Philly do what they've done at a high level against this Columbus group? I think the key will be whether it's Quinn Sullivan and Vasilev on the outside, all of whoever it ends up being on the edges of that midfield, can they win that battle? You should have an extra number in that area. Can you create those goal scoring chances for those wide midfielders, for those secondary attacking players, for this Philly team and can you have enough defensive shape when you do attack, you know, directly to be prepared for Columbus to come back at you? But this thing should be a track meet and that's like, must watch stuff. Yeah, I think that this is slightly ahead of Vancouver LSC for me as like the game I'm

looking forward to. That'll be in the top three. Let me take that. This is low key a really good fixture list this weekend, but sticking here again, the top line is going to be the stylistic differences and it's going to be the narrative of Daniel Kozlak returning to Philly. What kind of reception is he going to get? Again, you know, you joked about Philly fans in general, but from the way that I've received a lot of the news I've broken around. Yeah, I think the fans are like I get it guys dog Yeah, if you wanted a new like, you know, it's like I don't think like it wasn't like an acrimonious departure

Well, the other thing is certain the fans wish that he stayed. Yeah, and now it's gone Well, so like you can't be mad really at any party Philly's continued to win. Phillies continued to win, they've continued to get results and Gazdog's gone and hasn't hit huge yet, but like looks comfortable in Columbus and looks like a key ad. So I wonder if that sort of affects the energy around it too

of like, it's not, you know, this redemption arc moment. It's sort of just like, yeah, we were all sort of done with this phase of our life and then we moved on. And it's a huge game because it's the top two teams in the Eastern Conference. And then I think for both of us, we keyed the Minnesota Miami game as another huge game this weekend.

And Miami with the game in hand are hunting at the top of the Eastern Conference. They now, Supporters Shield is their next trophy to go for. And you have to think they're gonna be pretty committed and focused on it. I think we saw it in the performance against Red Bulls. But yeah, clash of styles. Minnesota are built to beat Miami.

And yet we said that about LAFC and LAFC couldn't get it done. So like the question here is, can Minnesota be great enough at what they do to be able to knock off Miami and get, I think, three points and not just a draw. Yeah, and look, it's always going to be difficult playing Miami, but Minnesota United are at

home and they are a good team. You can't have both of the, hey, give us more respect, but then, oh, we got a draw against Miami, that's good. So they have to be coming into this game knowing that, hey, if we do what we do well, if we execute out, we should win. And that's how they should be looking at this. Minnesota are dead last in MLS in possession. And it's not close. They have 37 percent.

Second to last to St. Louis at 40, 41 percent. That's how they want it. They know that they need to add kind of another dimension or be a little bit more dangerous in with the ball. That's not something that they're gonna need to practice this weekend against Miami. What they're gonna get to do is what they're the best at. What they are great at is the defensive structure and hitting you decisively and quickly on the counter and being high-energy and everything else that comes in. So I think this is gonna be a fascinating game between these two teams. And like you said, Gus, like I'm trying to say, I think Minnesota is going to win, except it feels

like every time I've been like, oh, that team matches up well with Miami, like you said with LESA. And then they didn't even when they had the game state exactly how they would have wanted it. Vancouver was the team that gave Miami the most problems because they actually wanted to play with the ball teams. Like Charlotte played against Miami when Miami went down a minute minute it's like you didn't notice that they were down to me they were still using the ball and like so maybe there will be a way for minnesota to try to control the game a little bit more than they have with the ball but like it's it's gonna be it's gonna be curious to see which side wins out so the way you one of the the ways we think that you could do that is by starting Julian Gressel, which is a funny little factor in all of this.

We have the question from Paolo in the chat who says Gressel Hatrick in this one. Hatrick of assists, maybe. That's a return game for him. He would bring a little bit more of that possession. I don't think Minnesota will lean that way in this one because my guess would be Minnesota would say we're better at that than everyone else.

That we think Kelvin Yoboa 1v1 against any of these players in the back line. That we think that if we play into the channels and our back post finishers and our back post runners, that will create chances that no one else does in this matchup. And I think that's fair, right? Bulanga has to come inside to score those chances.

Also, they were all there for him. He just didn't put them away. And I think for Minnesota, for large parts of the season, up until this last little run, they had put them away too. They have not beaten a team yet, I think, that were saying, like, is a Blue Blood 2025 MLS Cup contender? Part of that is the issue in the Western Conference. We still just don't know who that is.

So that's where the opportunity is here from Minnesota is to say, you know, this is a chance to win this game and say, yep, we're in the convo with all these Eastern Conference teams. You guys all want to fall over. You want to talk about all these teams and their styles and whatever. Well, we they're with them

And so I think for Minnesota, that's where this game becomes super important. I Totally agree. And so this one kicks off at 430 on Saturday at the same time Toronto's playing DC United in what I would like to call how much do I hate myself to put on a second screen? And I will how much do I hate myself to put on a second screen for this game? And I will, because I do. Lock him, baby. This is-

That's all I got. And that's all I've got on Toronto DC. And that's all I wanna say. This is what I'm talking about with Tom, which is he puts in the work behind the scenes all week to be ready for the big moments as he tries to struggle and get over it. We each had two Under the Radar games

that we were stoked about. Yours was Portland SKC. My guess is you're expecting, Tries to struggle and get over it. We each had two Under the Radar games that we were stoked about. Yours was Portland SKC. My guess is you're expecting, let me set the line here, five and a half goals. Dude, it's a blind over. These kind of games. And I will, I think that there's going to be a lot of similar strands. The other one, and I hope that you weren't about to say it, Colorado San Jose, that's

like, those are the two later games those those two games I'm just expecting. I need a chaos and fun Unpredictable I need a Darren Yappie brace in that game. The openings are there. I need him to take advantage of it Colorado have been fun to watch the last few weeks. I like the pairing up top with Navajo and Yappie Navajo is with Navahu and Yappie. Navahu is like 70% great at everything and I don't know that there's one role to put him in and I like the idea of changing it every once in a while so that you could see more of his build-up, more of his creativity, then you see more of his finishing on the end of things. I don't know that I would say this is the permanent way I would set up but I like putting it together this way and like giving him a chance to do this for some

stretches of the season. No, my under the radar one was Orlando, New England. I said it Orlando unbeaten now in 10 across all comps, 8 in MLS play. I think someone put in the chat six shutouts in a row. That can't be right. So feel free to correct me on that one. And the revs we have talked about for game win streak They have been the best defensive team in the league in the last month And so you get again clash of styles. I think this is a bit of a gut check for both these teams Where do they stand? Who are they and I think for this? Revs team most of all they are trying to prove that they're a real, you know

Contender for a playoff spot. And so this is their big, I think there's a big opportunity. I thought the performance and results in Rhode Island was really good for this team. And I think it showed that I have talked about it for two years now. This is a good academy. They've built a good academy. They've pushed a lot of good players. The Bruce Tekayla bridge broke some of the

momentum outside of Peyton Miller for some of these players. So to have a game where you could get them on the field, you win so you're getting another open cup game, a chance to play a lot of these kids as well. I think all of that was super positive. I totally agree and to do a little housekeeping. Yeah, six games shut out streak. They have not conceded a goal since March 29th in a two one, in a two one. You got me out here talking about this rev shutout streak and they've only conceded one goal in games

and they've never conceded more than two. And under the radar, I am not even picking it. I think part of the issue is you had the zero zeros. That's what it is. Three, three no no draws. And the one at Montreal feels tough because Montreal has failed to win I watched a large chunk of that Philly one it was obviously a good return from the opening game where they got blown out by Philly but it didn't feel as secure for this

group but yeah this Orlando squad they have come together and it's pretty impressive yeah again I think this is legitimately a very good team in the East and it like I think that they're gonna be here by the end of the season. They haven't had a great run where it like because early in the season when they were putting up goals like there's a couple soft ones conceded by Galise and we were like, hey, they need another center back all this. They fixed that but it's I don't know if this is correlation or causation that the attack is kind of slowed down a bit outside of beating Tampa Bay in the open cup of that you know explosion of five goals um so yeah Orlando is a very fun team to watch things are gonna be they are a very good team if I could just make one

more note about Colorado San Jose because I think at the moment this is my favorite stat so far the year San Jose earthquakes are first in MLS in expected goals, with 25. The San Jose Earthquakes are last in MLS in expected goals against, with 22. So this team, there's more goals in this team in games that this team plays, or more expected goals than any other in the league, and I think that that's fun. And somewhat expected, like they went out and invested a ton in this team. Most of it was in the front of the field and on guys that don't really defend or counter press or help with those things. And then a couple draft picks that sent her back.

And then Bolerud just trying to keep the whole thing together with tape and string and rubber bands and everything like that. On the Orlando side, they've obviously switched to this 4-4-2. It was working for a little while. I do think it has gotten the best out of Luis Muriel, but it has maybe also tamped down some of the overall attack for this team. I would just play Ivan Angulo at fullback sometimes. Don't fake it.

Don't play around. Don't shift into a wingback setup. Don't start a center back at fullback. To me, I think Angulo is, he's like the non-American Demarcus Beasley, right? We always said Beasley is such a good defensive winger that he could be a fullback. And then he did. And he was pretty good at it.

He was starting to work up. And I think Angulo can do something similar. And I think it could spark more of the attack if you have more threats out there on the field and you have a little bit more space. A lot of that then predicated on the Hades health and all of that as well and maybe Caraballo gets his way onto a starting lineup. This is going to be a fun one. As I said, we're excited for the weekend to come. If you're watching live again, go over, check out the podcast with Joe Larry. We'll talk a little

bit more in there. If you're listening to the podcast, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. I will have my weekend recap coming up on Monday. Got another big week of coverage coming next week as well. Tom, I know you have to go and call Karl Anthony Towns and call Karl Towns Sr. and celebrate New Jersey in all its glory and everything else like that. This is what we do. This is what we live for. So thank you to all of you for listening once again. Thank you to all of you live in the chat for joining us and we'll talk to you all again very, very soon.