SoccerWise - USWNT & NWSL Edition: NED & ENG Recap, Future US GK & Changes In San Diego

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

USWNT end 2024 undefeated with a 1-0-1 window in Europe. BUT what did we learn, and what can we take away? Jordan and David talk through it dig into the GK depth chart, questions at LB, and who will have chances going forward. Then they dig into all the big news coming out of San Diego from President to center back & check in on NWSL free agency. 2:50 USWNT-NED Recap 16:40 USWNT-ENG Recap 25:30 Big Takeaways From USWNT 33:30 Future USWNT GK 44:30 Massive Changes In San Diego 55:45 NWSL Free Agency UpdateSoccerwise Live 2pm ET Every Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday on Youtube/Twitch/Twitter

What's up everybody welcome back to soccer wise David gosh Jordan Angeli with you for a big US women's national team centric show here on this Wednesday afternoon, some NWSL free agency to talk about as well to dig into as it starts. And it is a whole new world for us in NWSL. Jordan, I wasn't with you on Thanksgiving. I almost saw you in Orlando. I know. But instead, I didn't make it there because of car emergencies and whatever else happened on my neck of the woods. You were kind enough to bring the cold to Florida and then leave it here. I am stoked about it. And everyone else is absolutely miserable that it is like 62 degrees. Yeah.

Which is funny because a lot of the people that live in Florida are from the East Coast, like where you're from. So they should be okay with some cooler weather. But yeah, I was in Florida for Thanksgiving and got to go to the orlando city game which was really fun i've i realized when i was there at the game i have never been to a game at that stadium to just enjoy a game i've only been there working yeah it was really loud and fun and but it was cold that night that's where i'm getting to is it was cold that night and i felt like oh people here were like bundled up they had beanies on it wasn't that cold right it wasn't that cold but for for florida it was pretty cold for them there is a lot of

overcompensating with the weather is what i am learning there's a lot of conversation about like oh well i got used to warmer weather it's like i don't think the body works that way everyone's like oh you get used to it. It's like, no, it's cold and it's hot. And like, that's who you are and that's what you do. I think we mentioned this coming out of the NWSL championship game, but soccer games are fun. It's fun to go to soccer and not work.

Really fun. I really enjoyed it. It's almost like you could think why everyone else likes it so much that listens to the show and engages with us and is part of our discord and our patreon subscribers and interacts with us on social media i get it it's a good time yeah we wish we could do it a little more often but cheers to you that get to just go every weekend and have a good time at the games i uh i think the super league fort lauderdale is here and they're obviously playing through the winter and I'm in Florida

so it won't be that cold so I think I'm going to try and attend a couple games like that but yeah going week to week sounds like a really good time I wish that I had been at Wembley Stadium on Saturday for that one a big crowd and then a really good atmosphere as well for the Netherlands game

for the US after that that is what i like to call a clean transition as we move into our first topic of the day the u.s women's national team the 2-1 victory over the netherlands coming from behind in this game honestly played off the field in the opening um half of this game found their feet, Alyssa Nair immense in what is her final game for the US Women's National Team. The US equalized on an own goal shifts at halftime and then got the winner through Lynn Williams off the bench. But it was an alarming performance for a lot of people in that first half to see the US.S. struggle. I talked about the U.S. England game a

bit on Monday on the recap show. We'll get to that one after this. But what did you make of sort of this performance and watching this game? I'll start out saying I kind of liked seeing them struggle in a way that this team doesn't often have to struggle. And so it is only in those moments that you actually learn more about yourself. And so I think that seeing that first half and how difficult it was for them as a unit, I think it was more difficult for certain players and others. And we'll talk about that. But as a unit, they could not figure out what the Netherlands were doing. And it was difficult, right? It was a flux of a system look like Netherlands were playing out of a three back,

then at times had a box in the midfield. And that's where the difficulty was for the United States is how were they going to defend in the box without giving up the half space, especially on the right side is where Netherlands found the majority of their joy is going down their right side attacking the left left side for the United States. And so I liked it. I liked seeing the United States have to figure out how to adapt from the first half to the second half, It was it was much better in the second half. And so for me, I leave this game and I probably would have left it with the same feeling whether they win or lose because I am not like these games are make or break right now. coach who is evaluating players who is really new like only what six months even if that into her tenure here with the United States and there is a lot that you need to learn and the only way you're going to do that is by playing opponents like England like Netherlands and being challenged in various tactical ways and I think that overall Goss I was really I was happy to see the United

States have to struggle a little bit. Only six months, still undefeated as head coach of the U.S. Women's National Team. A gold medal in there. Now, I believe technically 11-0-1 or 11-0-2 maybe with the England tie as head coach. I agree with you. I think it's really worthwhile to challenge yourself and have these moments. And I think that was the reason the camp was put together with these opponents. And I think it makes a ton of sense. And we'll talk about that more coming up. But let's talk

Alyssa Nair first. She announces that she's going to step away. I think it's really interesting that it's in two away games. And like, isn't a send off game here in the United States you saw the Netherlands give her flowers physically before the game uh to celebrate her in her final moments and then it wasn't just the retirement party like she had to be immense in that first half to keep this team in it made a couple big saves and end up is the reason probably that she goes out victorious with this US team. Maybe that's a way in a way why Alyssa Nair wanted to call it quits during after these camps is because she knows she was going to get tested and she knew that she was going to have some work to do. And knowing Alyssa Nair very well, this is a competitive woman.

She hates losing more than anything. And so the fact that she got to be really the linchpin, right, the one that held them together in that, especially the game against the Netherlands, where she had multiple big saves, she wouldn't want it any other way, right? She doesn't really want everybody talking about her that much. But she wants to be able to make the big saves when called upon. And I'm just so happy for her former teammate of mine from Boston, one of the best people, one of the best teammates you can have. And I think who she is outside of being an excellent goalkeeper and how she's carried

herself through what has been some really high highs and some really low lows has been the thing that has impressed me most about Alyssa. And she is going to go out with some like really two major saves that are going to be remembered by the U.S. Women's National Team fans as pivotal in this game against the Netherlands. Emma Hayes, I believe postgame said that she'll go out as the greatest goalkeeper in U.S. Women's National Team history. I think Emma Hayes has a lot of one reason to say that two yeah has great historical reference for that and has more value in what she says than what i say i think that's a debatable thing to say but the fact that she's in the debate i think that's the

honor right to be in that conversation with the hope solos the brianna scurries like the greatest players of all time at that position who have won everything elisa nair has won everything so her resume speaks for itself now a level of continuity almost seven years full time as the starter is a massive accomplishment as well and then as you said you close out in a way in which you remind everyone why great shot stopper an elite shot stopper. And the position has shifted. I think it will be part of our conversation about where this position goes for the U.S., the way it has shifted into how you use your feet,

how you come off your line, how you do all these things. But the core tenant is saving shots. And Alyssa Nair has done it in ways in which it has kept the U.S. alive in games they probably didn't deserve to get results in or get wins in. It kept them on the road to some finals and some championships that they probably would have been knocked off of earlier in those competitions if she hadn't been where she was. And even in the 2023 World Cup where things didn't go right, she arguably made the big, you know, she may have made the biggest save biggest save in u.s women's national team history it didn't count and we still don't know

but like i think all of that goes into her legacy she'll always have saved it she will agree don't you think she saved it i can't believe that but she saved it and it will go into her legacy but also the way that before two of the biggest tournaments in 2019 and 2023, everybody questioned her. Yeah. Everybody, nobody was like, is like, we're pumped about Alyssa. The media was really questioning Alyssa Nair. And she just came out and did her job. Like she tuned everything out and focused on what she could control. And I think that that is one of the most impressive things about her legacy is she was more

focused on her team than she was focused on like how I'm going to be perceived. And that is always, you know, you saw players crying afterwards and giving her hugs and not wanting her to leave because that's who she's been to this group is just someone that they can rely on no matter what, no matter how her life is going. They know that they're going to get the best solicitor out on the field for 90 minutes or plus. You you mentioned maybe choosing to go out on the road so that she doesn't have the big ceremony. I'd be shocked if the next US Women's National Team camp does not start or next home game does not start by bringing a listener out and and celebrating her but that might be the way she wanted and as you said she was she was the veteran

in this group right she was the one who led throughout this camp and i think that was a massive moment to continue to pass the torch and keep things alive uh kept this team alive they get the 1-1 equalizer off the own goal. They conceded off a corner kick. That goal was coming for a while. You watch that goal. I think Girma thinks she gets fouled. Debatable. Either way, Tina Davidson and Corbin Albert are both ball watching, which is unacceptable.

And it comes in a run of play throughout that first half where the U.S., as you said, was really struggling. Then they make the two halftime changes. Lynn Williams comes on. Emily Sonnick comes on in place of Jenna Niswanger. And the U.S. stabilizes. They're able to find their feet and start to do the things we saw against England. And they're able to find the winner through Lynn Williams, who I thought struggled in the England game. And I understood being rotated out of the starting lineup. She has not been playing consistently for Gotham. I think you saw that in the England game, not quick to react to things. And she's at her best. It's counter pressing at an elite level and being on that last defender and ready to make

the runs on through balls. And I didn't think she was there. But then this is why she's in the camp. This is why she's around. Yeah, that class comes out and the US is able to get the two one way. I think that the changes at halftime were not just personnel, it was tactical out and the U.S. is able to get the 2-1 win. I think the changes at halftime were not just personnel. It was tactical, too. And the back line and how Emma Hayes used Tierna Davidson as a left back and then was able to build out of the three with Davidson as then that left outside center back and push on Emily Fox a little bit more on the right side

and use those three to build helped them stabilize and get more numbers forward. It also with two holding midfielders in the second half for the United States, they sat a little bit deeper and they tried to build out through those two. They didn't often play them. But what it did is it pulled the Netherlands midfielders, who at times were playing a man to man system centr centrally like really marking man-to-man on the United States so it pulled them higher up on the field and so then that pass into the front runner which was now Lynn Williams it was a lot easier to find that that space and the gaps between that in that second scene between the midfield and the defense for the opponent this in this game the Netherlands was a

little bit bigger and so the the pass could be made in there because in the first half the united states couldn't even find that pass they they had so many players high that it was crowding jayden shaw she couldn't really find space around lindsey haran because there were so many defenders there so i think those two tactical moves where they actually brought more players for netherlands higher up on the field to then allow when they built to find the space in beyond and win first and second balls. That was a big difference in what the United States did tactically that I think really helped them. And then they stabilized that left back position, bringing in Tierna Davidson for Jenna Niswanger. Jenna Niswanger struggled, and she knows that, and everybody saw that.

But this is not a defender by trade she's still learning how to play defender and with all of those question marks that the netherlands were giving especially with their it was a winger at times it was a wing back at times for them um shifting between those two positions she didn't know when to step and when to stay and when to pull her winger back and to help in those overloads. And I think with Tierna Davidson, she just is, she's doing that all the time as a center back. She's managing those rotations. She is managing the shifting of players. And so it helped the United States just pass players off a little bit more and manage that space better. That was killing them in the first half. I don't think it helped that Rose Lavelle was on that wing as well in that first half in front of Jenna Neisler. Now, in saying that, I said coming out of the England game, like Rose Lavelle's energy when she's on is incredible, both on and off the ball. But that's counter pressing getting after the game. It's less, oh, I'm going to follow my mark all the way through the shape and continue, as you said,

to pass it off and take the next player. Yeah, It's not a natural winger. She hasn't really been doing that a ton. And so I don't think that helped either. But as you mentioned for Jenna Neiswanger, she's a year and a half into this transition into the fullback position. Her best attributes are going forward. And after a year of everyone having her serve crosses in and win Nwsl championship and help win a gold medal everyone has started to started to identify oh if we attack her 1v1 that's her weakness that's why she shouldn't or hasn't always been out there at that position that's our opportunity and she's gonna have to figure out over the course of this offseason like okay how can i improve in my 1v1 defending because she lost her starting spot to Mandy Freeman.

I think a large part of that was, well, we have Jess Carter going forward from the right. Let's have a safe option in Mandy Freeman that we know can win 1v1 battles. Yeah, and I will just say, I don't think it all was on Jenna Niswonger because the United States was playing with a single pivot and Corbin Albert was at times a little bit higher. It was demanding a lot out of Sam Coffey and with uh at times this is a thing like Netherlands was showing a lot of

different looks at times they were playing with two center forwards on the two center backs yeah and so if if they one of those check in and a center back goes with them then there's a big gap there and Jenna Nijswanger is like do I slide in to cover my center back or do I cover the space out wide yeah so I think that there was just a lot of questions being asked. And that's why I think that this game is so good, because how do you deal with that? How will you deal with that in the future? Because maybe you haven't seen that before if you're Jenna Niswonger. I thought technically this Netherlands team was probably the best team she's played against in the outside back position. And so you just have to learn as you go.

And I don't think she's forever out of the qualification for a left back, but I think that as a unit, the United States could have done a little bit better to help her in certain situations as well. And I think for the team overall in that first half, I brought up the goal and the ball watching. Vanderdonk as well had a wide open header on a set piece that yeah i think it was germa set pieces were terrible yeah i thought they were not good on

set pieces no and and a lot of that though is are you locked in an effort like it's not there is some level of tactics to it and there's some rocket science in there but the issues the u.s had in those moments were they were sleepwalking through the first half and you cannot do that on the road against the top 10 team on the planet that's out for blood as well and it wasn't an a team for either side but like that's the setting you're walking into and that's what makes it difficult and that's on top of the england game playing in front of 80 000 people um going into Wembley Stadium against the European champions and having this big game. So that game ends 0-0. Let me start with this. Okay, I went

into the FIFA calendar and I looked at it. I thought this game should have been played on Friday. It should be a Friday night game in England, which is a Friday afternoon game in the US, which would be Black Friday, which would have been Black Friday this year. And if you look at the FIFA window, it's the same window for the next two years going forward. I think that's a really cool tradition for the U.S. women's national team to own a day and have this tradition where it's like,

we play against England in front of the biggest crowd every year and we can push around it and it can become this event. I would assume a friday night game works the same for england like it's the start of the weekend it's a friday night game that kind of seems to fit and i think that would be a really cool tradition i don't know if i would do it home and away where you alternate in the u.s hosts half the time or if i would just stick it at wembley and say like this is our big challenge this is our this is our measuring stick that we go to every year thoughts i like that idea i like it because one you automatically know every single year that

you're playing a top five opponent and that is in your calendar because you need those benchmark moments you need to be able to see how you shape up against some of the best in the world. And sometimes with calendars and travel, European countries tend to play each other. Like you just it's nice to have that type of competition. And I like the idea that you just said of owning a day that you could plan around this, right? Like maybe next year we could be there. Yeah. As soccer wise.

Let's do it. Watching the game, you know, that people year we could be there. Yeah, as soccer wise, watching the game, you know, that people could plan around this event to say, All right, well, maybe, maybe this is a good like I had friends go and watch that game there. And it's a cool time to be able to one be in Europe, but to to watch a soccer game that's really meaningful for the United States. So I like it. Good thought, Goss. You should just ask Jill Ellis if she can add it in to the calendar. You are getting into future topics that are going to come up. You are talking about the, wait, I wrote the title down.

You're talking about the chief football officer of FIFA. That is a big time role in title or not. Yeah, I think it could be really fun. I think it could be really cool. The first time the U. the US chose to play this game they didn't need to right two years ago three years ago was it now when they chose to go to Wembley

the US was coming off a world championship or coming off a world cup England hadn't won anything yet and you are in that moment where for the most part you only have stuff to lose in theory that you could go and lose to another team and lose shine. You need to challenge yourself.

And as you said, you need to have these benchmarks and you need to play on the road because the CONCACAF region isn't going to give you that right now. Even if, and we don't know yet, World Cup qualifying is a tournament in another country or ends up being an actual home and away competition in which you go to Costaa rica and panama and mexico let's face reality it's not going to be the same level of competition and in the whole like the world is catching up one of those issues is the u.s isn't

challenging itself at the highest level because you're going to make money hosting games here teams want to come here and play you because they want to challenge themselves. And you are not in a region where you're getting great games if you don't organize them yourself. I love that the U.S. went and played this window. I think it's a great challenge. And as you said in the Netherlands Convo, the fact that they struggled, the fact that it was hard, that's what you need to continue to push this program forward.

And so I thought this was overall a really good camp. What I said on Monday on the recap show, and I said Jordan might disagree with me, was I thought the England performance overall was a good performance. Let me ask you this, because we kind of had this debate going into the Olympics. Is it acceptable to say that about a U.S. Women's National Team that doesn't win with the history of this program? Yes. say that about a U.S. women's national team that doesn't win with the history of this program? Yes, but I think that that is depending on who they're playing. And I think saying this against a team in England who is a very good team, that it's acceptable for them to get a draw. Because

I think overall in this game, we saw solid performances from both teams. We didn't see the hairline differences, right? Those little micro moments that make the difference in the attacking third where a good play turns into a great play and it's a goal. And I think that that was what was overall missing in this game. I thought there was a lot of really solid performances on both sides of the ball for both teams.

But nobody found that small difference that it takes in big games. So I think it was a good performance. And I think they learned a lot about themselves in this game too. Maybe not as much because they weren't playing from behind. They didn't have to figure out the tactics too much. But yeah, there's small differences

between the best teams in the world and the teams that are second and third and fourth, right? And that's what I think we saw in this game. Yeah. I think it felt to me the reality, which was that England, and obviously both teams are missing some big pieces in this, but England saying we're going to sit in and hang on, just acknowledged to me that the U.S. was kind of back in a way in which a year ago, yeah, they would have sat in because the U.S. struggled to break teams down, but it wouldn't have looked the same.S. played close. That final third quality was not there. And I think that's where you see the huge miss of, as broken as the ball indoor voting was, three of the top 10 vote getters, all American attacking players, were all unavailable

for this game. You have one of them, it might be different. You have two of them, probably. Three, most definitely. That doesn't mean this could never happen again and you don't need the depth but you have to acknowledge it in the conversation around the U.S. dominating the game not having that final third quality and not having Sophia Smith, Trinity Rodman, and Mal Swanson who are three of the best finishers and creators on the planet. It is a big piece of why they didn't find

the back of the net I think is just you start with Alyssa Thompson and Emma Sears up front. And I think both of those players are really great, but those aren't, they, they don't have, they've never played probably in front of 80,000 people that were at Wembley. They've never experienced these moments.

And I thought they, I mean, Alyssa Thompson has, when she got her first cap, it was at Wembley. I was going to say. Yeah. But to the fact of like,

now she can really be a game changer, right? You're getting the start. Responsibility on your shoulder. The responsibility is a little different. And I think that that is a, I thought they performed well. I thought both of them performed well. They didn't perform great.

Yeah. Right? And that's the difference. and that's always been the difference between the best and players that are really really good and so um this this game had some some nuance to it but i think overall it was pretty straightforward and to i think each team did a really good job of defending but neither team was able to execute the way they would have liked to in the attacking third to find that final piece. And that's that's how it like broke down to me. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. I think part of that was lack of connection

and continuity in some of those spots, both sides missing attacking pieces. And some of it was either lack of quality or experience at that level. I think you saw it from Melissa Thompson for sure, of like the physicality, the speed of play. Her final third decision was, I think, a little bit slow and then the game developed quickly. I think Emma Sears probably, this was a step too far for her too quickly. It clearly seems that Emma Hayes is a big fan of her game

and you can sort of see it because you can see the things she's great at. Like she's great at attacking a defender and putting her head down and going after a defender. And that's an asset that I think for Emma Hayes, as you try and build a national team program, you're like, all right, sometimes that's what I'm going to need. And I know that I have that here when you're only six months in. Yeah. I don't know that that's a starting position against England. And that's another conversation. I thought Yasmeen Ryan was really good off the bench when she came on. And a few players had some really good performances. So let's go to big takeaways. Post Olympics. Now we get the two big camps. This one, obviously the bigger challenges

with the games. What are your sort of big takeaways about what we've seen? Overall, it feels like Emma Hayes is going to give people opportunities and is trying to cast that big net right now, I think, because then as next year goes on, I think she's going to try to see some consistency within the group and not so much in and out flux of, you know, these players performed well. But now you've seen a handful of players get their first caps, get a number of minutes, get their first starts. And now that they're comfortable in that, I think we'll see, are they really going to push this starting group? So I think overall, we're seeing Emma Hayes willing to switch some tactics,

willing to play in different, maybe not starting in different formations, but shift in and out of different formations within the game in order to expose an opponent. But I think what I see overall is like a big trust, like a different feeling of trust within this group too, that whoever gets brought in, that they belong there. overall is like a big trust that like a different feeling of trust within this group too that whoever gets brought in that they belong there and and that hasn't always been the case with

this u.s women's national team that doesn't hasn't always felt like the players that come in belong there and it feels like the team has embraced what emma's ideas are for this team. And some of that has to do with bringing in new talent. And you have to accept that because if you don't, then you're going to look like the, you know, the lone man out and not playing like a team. So it does feel like the team has really embraced this idea of like, people are going to get opportunities and we're going to have to figure out a way to play as a team, even in those moments when we have different starters. Yeah, I think that's really interesting because I think you go back to it feels like some of the bristle through 2021 into 2023 of new pieces coming in, but some of the old guards still being around and it never really fitting together correctly. And I think some of that was just timing.

Some of the young players weren't ready yet. and it never really fitting together correctly. And I think some of that was just timing. Some of the young players weren't ready yet. Some of the older players couldn't perform at the same levels. And now you have this unique opportunity, which is you won the gold medal, you have a new coach, and the team is so young. Like very few of the pieces that this was built around are ending their primes. Most of them are entering them.

Some of them are pretty far away from entering them when you talk about like a Trinity Rodman or a Naomi Gurma. So you don't have to change. And so the way Emma Hayes is going to handle this and the way the group is going to handle this is going to be really interesting of like, you want to have competition. You don't want to make people fully uncomfortable, but also coaches want there to be a little discomfort so that you're pushed and i think it's going to be really interesting because i think i think there's a starting group i don't know if it's an exact 11 right there might be a left back is a maybe open question mark we don't really know what's going on with crystal dunn center

midfield might be an open question mark, right? Mal Swanson and Trini Rodman have injury histories. Sophia Smith now as well. Like maybe they'll always be one or two open spots, but I think you have players that when healthy are the 11. How do you push them and challenge them and make players feel like they've got an opportunity? And I think I kind of like what I've seen to some extent,

which is players are going to get chances, but they're going to have to take it away, right? Emily Sands, Defender of the Year in NWSL, doesn't get minutes in this window because Tierna Davidson and Naomi Gurma are the starters, and Emily Sonnet is the next one up, and they all just won a gold medal, and Sonnet on the other side of 30, but still will be in her prime at that position going into brazil best she's ever played yeah i i agree most consistent like she always used to have like moments emily sauna moments where it just be like what's going on right here but i feel like she's been playing really consistent and maybe that's why she comes in at half and

not emily sam's Sams. I was a little bummed about that. I would have liked to see Emily Sams against these two teams, but it's exactly what you said, right? Like giving people enough chance and it feels a little like earned chance in a way because of performances within mostly NWSL, but club teams and maybe within the trainings as to something that we don't get to the privilege of watching but um i think because of who emma has given chances to and not there has to be an underlying reason why emily sams didn't get opportunity but to me that's what it feels like i will also throw this out there and the way the roster was selected it doesn't exactly fit any of these lines but in the first game casey

kruger was the only one who played in the nwsl championship who played in that game and i thought she actually struggled with the speed and physicality of the game not just the like late hit although credit to casey kruger for getting her shot back before that game ended but I just know something I would do yeah me too so I was stoked about it like oh what I went in for a header what do you want from me oh the ball was gone I didn't notice um but I I just I didn't think it was her best game and I I wonder how much Emma Hayes when she finally did get the players in who did blame, maybe she was like, maybe I don't want to throw Emily Sam's out there. If she's at 90% or 80% and have her play this first game on the road

against the Netherlands. And it doesn't work. And like you said, with Sonnet, I think one of the things I've seen from her and I, I thought it was really big in this camp. And we obviously joked about it coming out of the game against the spirit.

I think she has weaponized her tenacity. like it's focused and funneled in a way in which she was i think spurring the team on vocally throughout that england game in a way in which you see her do it to herself and sometimes she would lose the plot at moments throughout games and now i think it's tunneled in the right direction where it's like i can use it for my own good and to help the team and i thought in the all the things we said with the netherlands game of like just not tracking runners not being awake like yeah emily sonnet is not going to play that way and she she got on the field and was immediately clapping and yelling at people and like getting everyone else there and i think that's been really good to see but i think it's fair that all those players, if they perform, they are already the starters in like,

you have to come get the spot from them. This is someone saying that who thought the program got stale coming out of 2019, because there wasn't an allowance for challenging. So I, there has to be a balance there. But I'm okay with the reality of like, Emma Hayes came in, built something on the fly, it worked. That's what we're going from now. And then people have to come in and out because of reasons, not just because everyone deserves an opportunity. Yeah, that's a good point. I like it.

It is going to be big now in a couple of key positions. So let's start with goalkeeper because we know that's going to be a change up. Alyssa Nair announcing her retirement, stepping away. We celebrated her. We talked about her. One of the things I want to point out is in all of the names of the players who are up next, no one has really played consistently at the national team level or even been called in as the backup consistently. Alyssa Nair wasn't either. Like she was not a national team player. She got called in the first time at 26 years old. She took over as the starter at 28 years old as the full time starter coming out of the 2016 Olympics. And as you said, was questioned. I think part of that questioning was she didn't have a track record as the national team goalkeeper. Could she step up? I'm just saying that in as we talk about

the casey murphys and aubrey kingsbury's and we question them now it is going to be a similar conversation that we had around there so i want to say that on the one hand of like the sky is not falling and on the other hand of like it's okay because we should be proven wrong because there's no track record for these players at this level in In saying that, what do you see as sort of the depth chart right now going forward? I don't think I have an order to this. And I think that's one of the hardest things is I don't know what the order is for the depth chart. But Casey Murphy, Jane Campbell, Aubrey Kingsbury, Mandy Haught would be probably the four top goalies that I would think of off the top of my head. And all of them have at one point or another been with the national team. So they

have experience being in camps, being at tournaments, competing with this group. Maybe all but Mandy Hott on that level. She's been in camps though. I would say this is where you are going to have to try and learn, because this is a different level in how you perform as a goalkeeper in little nuanced moments of when you step your line, when you come off your line against an attacker who you don't really know how fast they are because you don't play against them very often, right? Can you close the space? Can you get the cross can you make sure you manage um your six all of these things i think have to be

questioned in games at the national team level and it goes back to my point earlier is you don't get often these types of games that they just got in these last this last window where they're really good games they do have the she believes cup coming coming up in February. And there's a couple of games in that. And I hope we see a few goalkeepers, maybe even a substitution at goalkeeper. And like you put people in, in games that matter to say, how can you perform in this environment? So there's not a lot of experience within this group. There is a little bit, but they're all really good goalkeepers.

And I think you have to figure out who works well with this unit and with this group at this level with the intensity and the expectation. It's a lot to be able to balance on your shoulders, but that's a good group of goalkeepers. A hundred percent. It is all players that tomorrow I would trust to put up a strong result.

Will they be 2024? Listen there. No. Can they be 2019? Maybe. Right. Enough to say, Naomi Gurman is the best center back in the world.

Sam Coffey is an elite defensive midfielder. If I just do my job and I don't try and win the game, I can keep us in it. And I think all of these goalkeepers are on that list. I will be fascinated to see how North Carolina's style affects the way Emma Hayes views Casey Murphy in how much of an outlier they are in the possession that they have and how that runs through a goalkeeper and the amount of actions a goalkeeper has as a shot stopper verse being a part of the connected play and my assumption is as jonathan geraldoz gets his first year that the washington spirit move in that direction as well and i think that's a huge positive for aubrey kingsbury inserting her into this which is i think she is a fairly good natural shot stopper. And

the more she has to play with her feet and come off her line and cover space, I think that's going to be a positive into getting into this US Women's National Team pool. Because I think that's what Emma Hayes wants. Like, I think she wants a goalkeeper that can expand the game a little more so that you can push some more numbers into the attack. Which I would say out of all of these goalkeepers, Mandy Ha is probably the best at solving pressure situations with her feet. But I don't think she's as good overall, rounded in some of her technique as an Aubrey Kingsbury is.

So how do you find, okay, what can we build off of? What's the easier thing to make somebody better at as a goalkeeper? I don't know. I wasn't a goalkeeper, right? So easier to play with your feet or is it easier to figure out how to, um, go get crosses or block shots, the things where you're trying to find that little bit of difference every single year. Um, those are the questions that i think you're because each one of these goalkeepers has um a something they're really good at and a deficiency in ways so like which strength are you going to rely on to hopefully you can bring the the floor up from whatever they're not they're not great at

so so that is the goalkeeper position uh and it's going to be fun to watch you mentioned she believes cup columbia australia and japan that's that group coming up that's really good test those are high level games really good games yeah again the u.s doing the right thing scheduling to challenge themselves not just taking it easy and getting wins um and putting themselves in tough situations which is what you want let's talk about the fullback position. Because that's another big question mark left back has been a conversation. I think Emily Fox probably pretty locked in at the right back position. I will say, and I said this to you before we got on one of the tough things with this pool. If players are going to get chances is a year ago, we wouldn't have said Corey Bethune or Hal Hirschfeld, or US Women's National Team players. Now, if Corey Bethune comes back healthy, you're saying, is she the 10?

And how does the rest of this fit? I say that in saying there's a ton of talent and I don't know who will emerge. I think Emily Fox does some really good stuff. I thought moments of the England game, you see the way she plays safe, I think hurts them in some of their build out moments. And while she's good at turning and going up the sideline, her optionality of yes, I'll come inside. Yes, I'll go outside. I think there's more there if you're talking about how do you take a gold medal team and push it even higher.

And so I will be curious to see as young players come up in that position, who gets a chance, but the left backs the clear one. What do. What do you think you're looking for here? Is there anyone that hasn't gotten called in or hasn't gotten a chance that you think is an obvious one? I don't know if any real obvious ones stick out. We saw Emma Vignola come in last year to have an opportunity. I don't think maybe right now, but maybe in the future, I think Madison Curry has been a really good outside back in NWSL. I would just say, yeah,

I do. I think Casey Kruger is one of the best one V one defenders in NWSL. I would put her up there as one of the best that is in the world right now, right? Maybe not the best, but one of the best in the world. But like you said, that was a difficult game for her, but it comes off the heels of a really heartbreaking loss, traveling across the world after you've played what was two overtime games to even get to the final. She was exhausted. And I think that you have to put

that in the back of your mind when you're evaluating her performance, as you said, but for other people, I think she's still a really good option at the outside back. And I would, I just don't know if anybody would, in my opinion right now, push her out of that spot because of one performance where she looks tired because she probably was tired. Yeah, I think that's perfectly fair to say she's the starter at that spot. She deserves to be. I don't know how long that lasts for her at this point of her career. And that's where you're looking at succession planning. I think it's one of those positions. I think some of the names you said are like whoever's playing well at that position in nwsl deserves that if you don't have a clear person in

that spot you gotta take the vibe check of like okay malinson's playing well at this spot let's take a shot here vignola is that the option curry is that the option if she's playing at the left back spot full time like i think all of those are part of the conversation. Does it carry a bellow or or if Carson Pickett becomes a starter? Can they get into this? I think there's an opening. I mean, it clearly feels like this has had been the spot with the most rotation since the Olympics that we've seen, right? So there there is an option there i wouldn't say no to carson pickett i wouldn't say no to carry a bellow although i think a bellow lacks some of the defensive responsibilities that i think we we've talked about with other players who you know a bellow is not i don't

think a natural left back so um she's mostly played in the midfield can't play as an outside back and that's where you start to say okay do we want a better center a better soccer player in this position because of how we're building or do we want to bet or do we need a better defender because if you need a better defender i think there's options right we saw them play with tierna davidson at that spot that maybe gives emily sam's an opportunity to play in the back line maybe you're playing in a 3-5-2 maybe you're playing in a 3-4-3 I don't know how it's going to look for this team but I do feel like that is a place where there seems to be the most question marks yeah which is the hardest play I think one of the hardest spots to fill on a team is a left back yeah you

don't have as many naturally left-footed players, not as many players play there. I think already you see with Jenna Neiswanger of like club teams, okay, they can get more out of playing an attacking player there. I hope this doesn't become we have the best attacking core in the world and like we're going to play Jaden Shaw and Alyssa Thompson at left back. I hope that doesn't happen. Please no. Because, yeah, it's not necessary.

But there is the option of, can we play an elite center back here? They give us enough. Or defensive midfield, there's someone maybe who then slides in in the build-out, and then we start to shift numbers around. There is ways to do that without just the pure, we have the 10 of the 12 best attacking players on the planet. How do we get them all on the field at the same time which wasn't a hundred percent what was happening with crystal done

because the spot couldn't be filled by anyone else and kelly o'hara did the same earlier in her career but i don't think that's the right way to use these players and i think the pool is deep enough to not have to where as i said i think you're gonna have players who are playing their week in and week out with their club teams that if they're in decent form you can give opportunities to and fill that spot but overall i think the feeling a pretty strong camp a pretty strong group of games a really positive year for the u.s women's national team we're going to do our best moments of the year coming up on our final show together in a couple weeks for 2024. I think some gold medal games and some big performances might sneak in there from a few of these national team players.

And Emma Hayes, I don't know, going to a pub to pull pints. And just like I said it on the Monday recap, she said to Jaden Shaw right before she subbed on. Shaw said this in the postgame interview. Like, why do you look so serious? And Shaw's like, well well what do you mean and she's like well you were smiling and now you're kind of locked in and she's like yeah you know i'm a little nervous and she's like enjoy it it's 80 000 people at wembley and i think yeah when emma hayes is that way this team's at their best and it's fun to see her be able to be level and it helps when you have a gold medal in your back pocket. All right. Let's move into NWSL.

Wild stuff going on in San Diego. And then we'll talk about free agency. I made my lower third title wave in San Diego. I didn't know what else to say. Movement across. Yeah, not. Thank you. Thank you for that.

Movement across all three levels at this club. Let's start at the top with the official news. Jill Ellis, who was president and chief soccer officer for this club, has left San Diego to become the FIFA chief football officer at the international organization that is FIFA. This technically was not connected, but I am connecting. It comes off the heels of investigations about the way she has run this organization from an HR point of view and from a people point of view. Investigations that some have been brought public and some still haven't. She was technically backed by the commissioner at the NWSL championship when asked about it, that the investigations had shown nothing and that she was a valued member of the league and all of that. This, to me, feels like everyone found a convenient backdoor way to sort of get out of a lot of

this. And so she finds a new spot and San Diego can move on. And it feels like from everything we're hearing that this is only positive for San Diego to have the opportunity to reset and rebuild they don't have the coach in place which we'll talk about in a moment they've gotten new ownership over the last year find yourself again as a club and do so I think without this as a part of it and without this culture around it seems like a really positive moment. And San Diego doesn't have to make this sort of this fight internally to make it happen as Jill Ellis finds a landing

spot herself. It does feel weird, though, just three seasons into their existence, they are having a total overhaul. And I know that mostly most likely has to do with new ownership, right? Some of these other bigger things like Jill Ellis leaving is probably like, hey, we want to control this how we want to control it. If I was the owner and I paid as much as they did, I probably would want probably feel the same way unless things were going great, but they weren't going great. So you're trying to overhaul and make it your own. It's it seems like a great spot for her to land.

I don't know. FIFA is FIFA. And so we'll see how that goes. But for San Diego, I feel like it will give a refresh to this group because it was a difficult season for them. And they went through three different coaches, this scandal that you talked about, mentally, emotionally, a lot was on their shoulders

and they still had to perform. And that was challenging. And we could see that on the field week in and week out. And so I think for them, these players are probably happy that there is a refresh when it comes to front office, when it comes to coaching staff, and hopefully they'll name that coach sooner rather than later.

And to go into this next season feeling like, all right, we can figure out who we are again and not have to worry about all these external things. Yeah. It does feel odd, the rebuild. It does, though, seem to track in line with sort of what we talked about the national team of like, something got built successful. And I don't know that a skill of jill ellis's is to keep it together and

the leadership portion of like okay everything's on the tracks let's move it all along and casey stoney's out after winning the shield and it's a lot of confusion because you don't have the next person lined up and now you're texting landon donovan hey do you know of anyone who might coach that's like a completely ridiculous thing to occur to a team that was putting 20-25,000 people in their stadium and winning trophies that quickly into their time now the other rumor we are hearing one of two more that we're going to go into is that Jonas Eidevall is in talks with the club to take over as the head coach. So one, you no longer have a head of the sporting side, really, although you do have people working in the front office who are a part of the sporting situation. And now you get a coach connected and one with a huge profile.

Maybe not the most success at Arsenal, but it is a huge club that he led to top two top three places in the WSL Champions League semi-finals uh I think two leagues cup championships with um with that Arsenal group and then obviously success back in his native Sweden what did you make of this when you heard it come across and do you think this is the right first step for san diego to go forward it the coaching search is interesting because a year ago or two years ago when gosh man when it's about two and a half years ago when juan carlos came into the league like i didn't know who juan carlos almaraz was but now we know him as one of the best coaches right in in not just nwsl but what he has done

has proven to be successful in concaf and everything so this is different than that right this is a coach that people know his name they know eidavall from arsenal and what he got to do there it makes sense to me because it feels like he does want to play. This is a coach who has very distinct tactics in his style of play. He wants to build out of the back. The Arsenal team, I got to do some of their friendlies in the United States earlier this year before their season kicked off in the WSL. And they're a ball playing team, very patient on the ball, really good movement off the ball to create a lot of problems for the opponent. And when you look at the San Diego team,

they have all of the pieces to be able to do that. Maybe they could beef up their midfield a little bit and get some stronger ball progressing players. But when you're looking at their back line, good players to be a ball playing team. You could be expansive because of who their defenders are and who their attackers are. It makes sense to me with the players that San Diego has that his style could fit in with this team. Yeah, I completely agree. It is in the world that Casey Stoney was in with this team. So you are probably in a we don't need a complete rebuild situation if you bring them in,

which I think is somewhat ideal. Cause as you said, there is talent there. Um, I also think you are now post Alex Morgan world. Like who's the face of this team. Yeah. You are going to want someone who can help recruit the biggest names in

the world. I think Cascarino is already a part of that, but like, so clearly the market maybe in the club can sell itself to an extent. But I think you want someone who can come to the table and people will say, yeah, I want to go play for him. We already know, as Simeon Morgan said, yeah, Yonatan Geraldo is coaching Washington.

I want to go be a part of that project. This, I don't think it's the same level because he didn't have the same success. But I think it starts to put you in that conversation of like, players will look at it and say, yeah, that's something that interests me. I would like to be a part of that. And in saying that, let's talk about Naomi Girma, who has been connected to a move to Lyon.

Obviously, the biggest club, I would say, in women's soccer. Maybe you put Barcelona there now. But it's between the two two and it makes sense. Naomi Girma is probably the best 1v1 defender on the planet, has broken through with the U.S. Women's National Team immediately in her rookie year as a professional. And some people would look at it and say, like, this is the logical next step because of Lyon's history and because the ability to challenge yourself in training with that team, let alone right day in and day out. I have my reaction. What was your reaction to hearing this?

It didn't surprise me because of all the things you just said, this is an elite player. And if you're an elite player, you want to play on the best team that you can play on. And Lyon is stacked. This is a team where i don't even know if there's room for naomi germa right because of how many good center backs they have but i know that naomi germa will find her way in a place like that and and find her way to the starting lineup because she is that good i think it's an interesting move i i don't know if you're going to go, maybe go now before World Cup craze happens and you get a couple of years under your belt and see how it goes.

You can always come back to NWSL. It didn't surprise me because of the status of Naomi Gurma and how good she is. Any team would be silly not to want to bring her to their team. Yeah. It's hard to tell if this is a rumor where it's like oh of course on the own side of course and then you go to the other side and san diego's like no chance and naomi germa's like i wasn't really talking about this or interested

is it a rumor like that or is it a bit real and i think the instability in san diego makes you feel like okay this could be real if you're Naomi Gurman you're looking around you're like do I want to stay here and be a part of a rebuild or if my ambition is to make this move at some point or maybe it wasn't but now it is let's like you said let's go check this out now and if I want to come back I can come back maybe next year is not going to be the best year to be in San Diego and now is sort of a clean time to move what I said on Monday's show which was my first reaction which I think would be unfortunate is I think she would be the face of San Diego and that's just not the case for a lot

of defenders and like she gets a ton of publicity because of the national team and while she got this you know uproar of support because she wasn't on the ball and door ballot she wasn't on the ball and door ballot and so i think she would be the face of that club i think they have the potential to contend again in nwsl immediately if the right moves are made and cammy ashton in place has put together winners in her history in nwsl and what we saw in kansas city and post alex morgan i think all of the publicity and like you could say this matters or it doesn't it's going to start with naomi germa and that's not going to be the case as a center back not going to be the case if you

go to leon because wendy renard is maybe the other best center back and is the you know lifeblood of leon and has been and deserves to be and I just think that is a really cool situation that could happen and would be unfortunate to not see it, even though I think if she goes, there's a ton of positives in there as well as her development as a soccer player. And this is one of the few teams, I think, where it's like they're going to come in for the NWSL's best players. I think we are maybe a little bit past now over the last year and a half, two years of the like West Ham's of the world

or, you know, even Arsenal at times coming in and saying like, oh, we're interested and then players drop everything to go. Leon's probably still up there and you have the Michelle Kang connection of like, there's money there that probably doesn't exist

with all other teams, which is a huge opportunity for a player. Let's finish out by talking free agency, which Naomi Gurman is not a part of, but is a huge factor for a ton of players. Not the deluge of players maybe you would have expected. I think the CBA taking a while to get negotiated, and we talked with Tori Hooster on this show about it.

Maybe not every player had lined their contract up perfectly to open up. And so you have a few free agents that are interesting. I went through and updated all of them on our depth chart. So if you subscribe to our Patreon, you get access to our depth charts. It has, for the most part, the way every team plays, where players stand, and then highlighted in green is each player that is a free agent, which means their contract is up and I will continue to update them as players move and moving them in contract situations. I put together a list of free agents that I found interesting. A few have already re-signed, but here are the two big moves we've seen this week in players

moving. Delaney Sheehan has moved from Gotham to Houston. On top of that, we get the official news that Ricky Clark is officially leaving the club. He was the interim manager post-Fran Alonso in Houston. It was a tough situation. I think he did okay for it, but you can understand moving on from this. And then Madison Curry, as we mentioned earlier, has officially joined Seattle, leaving Angel City as Seattle looks to rebuild and try and get a better season under Laura Harvey going forward. The Delaney Sheehan one I think is really interesting. We talked about her out of the Portland game when she had a huge impact for this team. I think this is like floor raising and competency. Maybe not NWSL best 11, but like you play into her feet. It is a safe glove that

is going to make other players life easier she will cover ground in that central midfield position and without a coach she is the type of player that's going to fit most systems because she's just an overall competent clean soccer player and while i think she can succeed even more i think this is a good sign for houston having the right idea without the coach in place of like, let's get let's raise our floor. Let's make us more competitive guaranteed. Even if we're not putting the huge piece on the top that makes us a championship contender, especially in the midfield. This was a Houston team who lacked that connecting piece between

the midfield and the forward line. And that's exactly what Delaney Sheehan has done in Gotham. And people were surprised. This is a year going off of a championship into a year where they bring in all these free agents and you're thinking, oh, a lot of these players aren't going to see playing time. Well, who kept starting? Delaney Sheehan. She just found a way to start.

And her consistency with what you just said, being a press-resistant player, playing into tight spaces, finding that final pass. Houston needs a player like that. And this is a big signing for them. And I really like that they bring her in before they have a coach because she is adaptable. But you can also build a little bit around her and

Ordonez. And can you find a better connection to get Deanna Ordonez into games? I think Sheehan's going to help that a lot. And save feet to play into if you end up in a back five again, the wingbacks now can take off a little bit earlier. You can play a little bit higher. This is a good start for Houston. There obviously needs to be a lot more that happens. On the Gotham side, Gotham has an interesting set of free agents. I talked to you about this right before we jumped on

as I opened it up. Matian, Sam Hyatt, Mandy Freeman, Mikal Zerbroni, and Delaney Sheehan are all their free agents. None of them are the top line stars that you talk about with Gotham. All of them were critical to the fact that they missed a ton of pieces and they remain competitive throughout the year to the point where Mandy Freeman started in the post season and Sheehan came off the bench to help them win the

game against Portland. It will just be interesting. I think in the context of, can Gotham keep all of this together? And where are the holes in the players that are like, I'm a starter. And like, this was cool. I want to win a championship and come here. But it was a year and like, I'm a starter. And so then it's like, do you have to make sure you keep Manny Freeman because you don't know what other pieces are leaving or whatever else happens. And players get to know their worth now, right? So you get to have these conversations with other teams to say, we're willing to pay this

much for you. And you might be a starter wherever you are, but we'll pay X amount. And if you want to stay, you can say, all right, Gotham, Houston, North Carolina, whoever it is, pay up if you want me to pay up. If not, I'll see you later. See you when we play you. We talked about Madison Curry. She was a player where I think not only knowing her worth, but also opportunity of like got slid around the back line with Angel City. Always started, but not in the same spot.

I feel like Seattle probably went to her and said, we could lock you in at the left back position. And if that's the case, we just said she could play herself into a national team position and so that's another one of the um sort of opportunities that exists with free agency and everyone keeps asking like will will everyone go to the same markets i think there are all these elements that clubs can sell themselves on one being we've got playing time for you and like you're gonna get the chance to be a key part of what we build and obviously with sofia huerta on loan at leon brittany own coming back up uh there's a little bit of playing time there with seattle let me finish us with this as i went through the list i made um excuse me i made a

a list of the interesting free agents that popped up as I sort of registered them. Vanessa DiBernardo and Dabinio were two on this list. They have both resigned at least for one year with Kansas City. So those are two big names coming off the list. The other big ones I had were Caroline, Miura, Midge Purse, who has an option. And obviously coming off an ACL surgery, there's a lot of unknown there. But you look at a Gotham team that has a lot of set pieces, and we don't know what her mindset will be and what those options will be. Aaron Wright was another big one. And you have a couple centerbacks

Kelly Hubley, Anna Butel, and then Hannah Buford, sorry, was another one. Do any of those names pop out to you? Is there anything interesting that you're following? It feels like we're back to a couple years ago when everybody was watching Dabinia and what Dabinia is going to do. Because I kind of feel like what is Caroline going to do? If you're a club in this league and you're not talking to Caroline, then you're crazy. I just, I feel like it would be harder in this moment for caroline to leave because of how well treated she has been at north carolina and how understanding they have been of her rehab process and making sure she's fully fit before they're really making her be in the starting lineup right putting all this expectation back on her, which is going to be there because she's Caroline.

They've handled it really well, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't sign somewhere else. So I think for me, that's the one that sticks out the most because Caroline is elite. When she is healthy, which she's going to be come March when the season starts up again, she is a game changer, not just in this league, in this world. And I would want her on my team.

So I would be talking to her. It is one of those where there's obviously not a team she wouldn't help. There's obviously not a team where she wouldn't make sense. And I would even go so far as like, as you look through things outside of, I want to say Orlandolando and washington although i would be fascinated if marta said hey like come be my air like is marta a full game starter she would go to orlando yeah with all the brazilians there 100 even though they clearly don't need need her but you look at every team i mean chicago would be i'm just looking at

the list chicago would be thrilled angel city would be thrilled seattle would be thrilled houston would be over the moon it's not going to happen kansas city probably doesn't have the space gotham probably shouldn't just dissing on houston i don't know that caroline's gonna leave a project she's a part of to go to a club. That was just funny. Yeah, no sporting director and no coach. But it would be, I think, harsh for North Carolina, the way that they have stuck with there and the way she's been part of it. The only thing is, and you would know this better than me, but she might say, I just

need a change in my life. It's been such a brutal 14 months. It has nothing to do with this. I just need a refresh and a restart. And if that's the case, he can't blame her. And if that's the case, as you said, you're not doing your due diligence as an NWSL front office if you're not reaching out and saying,

let's just have a conversation and let's see where it goes. So free agency is going to be interesting. It's going to be really, really fun. And we're going to be here to cover it with you throughout the off season. We are going to be interesting. It's going to be really, really fun. And we're going to be here to cover it with you throughout the offseason. We are going to be here. We're going to have some special shows, some special interviews, some special episodes about sort of what's being built and what's going on. Just talked with the USL Championship president today that we're going to run later.

We talked about USL Super League and how it fits in and how they can be a part of their club and all the other things that are going on. The sport never ends. So it's been really, really fun to watch the games on the field as the U.S. Women's National Team closes out the year. And, of course, we have the NWSL Championship in the books. We've got so much else to talk about. So we're going to continue to do that right here at SoccerWise. Thank you to all of you for listening.

Thank you to all of you for watching live. And we will talk to you again very, very soon.