SoccerWise - World 7s, Trinity's Future, Coaching Changes & A Few Of Our Favorite Things

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

After a week "off" with Jordan grinding through a buffet of 7v7 elite soccer, and David through a world cup draw. There is so much to talk about! They dig into the latest around Trinity Rodman's future, and what to make of all the twists and turns. They then look at the coaching news in both Portland & Bay and what they will mean. And finally they talk about some of the the things that have been on their mind from this talented rookie class playing as Sophomores, to expansion builds, Alyssa Naeher, and much more.2:00 Recapping World 7s11:42 Trinity Rodman's Washington Future22:20 Haley Carter Leaves Orlando For Washington28:35 Portland Let Rob Gale Go38:05 Bay Hire Emma Coates As Head Coach44:15 Alyssa Naeher Re-signs & Chicago's Outlook52:30 Gotham FC Dynasty Potential56:55 Expansion Excitement57:00 Rookie Sensations

Welcome everybody back to soccer-wise, David Goss and Jordan-Angeley. Finally, back on the microphones once again, Jordan hasn't had anything to do for the last two weeks. So I had to pull her back in so we could chat about. about some of the biggest stories around NWSL and some of the things that we've just been thinking about over and over and over again. Jordan, you were in my neck of the woods once again this weekend, but I did not get to see you,

but you had an eventful weekend. We were so close. At one point, we were only like nine miles away, I think. Which would have taken two and a half an hour. Yeah, yeah. Between, I don't even know. Is it Chase Stadium still? Yes, maybe. I don't know.

Whatever. We're Inter Miami, one MLS Cup, and where the World's Sevens football was. Which in advance. I think I added too many S's there. Nice. That's good to know you were there for a while. In advance,

I didn't know that it was at Bankyard Field or whatever, which is where I went. Gotham played some of their preseason games there. Yeah, against Fort Lauderdale United. That's where they play their games. And I saw a lot of those players at the tournament watching over the weekend. What an experience, I should say, gosh, you have worked and called games at TST. It's very similar vibes on a smaller scale,

I would say, than TST, because there's, you know, just eight teams in the turn it, whereas TST, it feels like there's a bajillion now. But it was so much fun to be able to talk to Caroline Seger, Anita Asante, Laura Georges, Tobin Heath, Kelly O'Hara, some of the people that they've used as this advisory board to get this rolling and really, invest in women's football in a different way. The prize pot was total $5 million. If you participated in the tournament, you got

I think $250,000. As a team. As a team. If you won, you got $2 million. So some of those players for San Diego took home, well, not some of them. I think they were saying it was about $60,000 a person.

If you won. Because it was swept between club and team and staff and everything. But that is a much greater prize than you get if you win NWSL championship. So San Diego, happy to take home that prize, and they brought it. It was so fun to watch some play. They did they did not drop a point. The San Diego Wave were the only team of the tournament did not drop a point the whole entire weekend.

And, yeah, I was recovering from the weekend because there were so many games. But it was really fun to be a part of there. And Miami really showed up with some, like, perfect weather. Yeah, it was very, very nice. I thought it was a little bit hot. It was a little hot. It's hotter than it's been and it cooled off again and it's gorgeous right now. But people have compared it to TSD, but the difference is it's real.

TSC is fun and great and there's a lot to it. But it's always this half in half out of like, okay, the big names, like how close will anyone be to actually being in shape or in their careers or whatever? And this one, it's like, we're talking about Ken Zatali. Yeah. And she showed Christiani. Christiani was amazing for Flamengo, 40 years old, still playing soccer at the highest level, still out there with the best assist of the tournament. She took it off of her thigh and then back heel assisted to Glousia.

If you haven't seen that highlight, you need to go watch it because it was an incredible goal. Yeah, these players brought it. And there was a lot on the line. And you could tell the first day, you know, it is about fun. it is about giving these players like a little bit of joy and remembering what playing football is all about and some of the skills and the celebrations and the entrances and all that. But when it went from day one to day two, you could tell it just like cranked up a little bit. And then the third day with the knockouts and the final was very intense.

We even saw a keeper injury get her face sliced open, Panios from Club America. I think it was Christiani who ended up doing that. So there's a lot of money on the line, and these players want that money. You know, I think for a lot of people, that's life-changing money, but you think about some of these South American players in Colombia or Uruguay,

they don't really get paid at all. And so that money for them is significant. And so they were fighting hard to get a little chunk of that money. So you did it once. This is only the second ever time this tournament's happened. It happened, obviously, in Europe, around the Champions League, this last Champions League?

I'm trying to think of the calendar. Yep, it just happened in May. Right. So that was last Champions League. We're in the middle. We're currently watching Champions League. So that's why I'm trying to figure out what's going on. If I hired you as a sporting consultant saying,

I want to win a World Sevens, what does my team need? Yeah. What were the game states that you found that were most important? They're like the little intricacies that you've now taken away. Goalkeeping is huge. Even though the goals are small. the shots can come from anywhere, so you have to have quick reactions.

I think quick reactions from goalkeepers is paramount. And then I thought the teams that were most successful were the teams with the best 1B1 artists. Maria Sanchez had herself a tournament. I think she scored six goals, six or seven, I should know that.

But she scored a hat trick, and her third goal of her hat trick was like, it went outside the post before it came back in. from across the field. It was amazing. So she just is willing to take people one v1. I thought for Kansas City, their best player was Alex Pfeiffer, who is this young player who plays on the wing and will drive at people and make them feel uncomfortable. The teams that were successful had the best 1V1 artists. And then it's really about using every inch of that field. So can you pass around enough to create isolations? I think that's why San Diego was successful because they moved the ball

like they did all season. They were just pinging it around people. So I would say you need a few of those just, like players that pulled the strings, but you can't, I don't think you can win if you don't have a 1V1 or 2 1V1 artists. So you definitely need that in your back pocket. So you're telling me Tobin Heath advises on a tournament and it comes down to 1V1 ability? I can't even imagine. Right.

Yep. Yep. yeah and they they were just having the best time those advisors having the best time all weekend i was talking to caroline sagger and i was like how did you do this without wanting to play she's like i want to play every time i want to put an old team like an old player's team together and and i was like that would be awesome she goes yeah you would play on the team and i go if you want me to play on your team caroline like i will play on your team easy It would be legendary to see, which I think we'd all be excited about.

Obviously, Heather O'Reilly has won every TSD, I think there's ever been. Yeah. So already has a little bit of a game plan to get there. But I was sad I missed it in person. It looked awesome. Arrow and Morgan Tenza was there taking photos. So we have some great photos of you as well, like professional-level stuff. So if you ever need a profile update or anything like that.

I need to hit up Morgan. She was awesome all weekend just to get to see her. And, you know, we do all this virtually. So to be able to see people in real life is such a joy. And, yeah, it was usually us, like, going in separate directions. But just to see her and be like, hi, how are you doing? How's it going? You survived.

The other thing is you normally call games remotely. And obviously, this wasn't exact style or whatever. Yeah. Did you get any feel about San Diego Wave differently now going into 2026 than you had coming out of the season? I think. I had a pretty good, I liked what I felt from San Diego, but just to, I had a chance to talk to Yonis and to talk to Becky and, um, actually we talked to Jonas after the championship on DeZone. We, he came over and was speaking with us and he's got like some humor to him, gosh. I didn't have, I didn't check that during the season. Is it like dark Scandinavian humor? Yeah, yeah. Well, I told him how the, I asked him how the ice bath felt afterwards because he, he got dunked by the gatorade bottle. And he said, It was cold, and also I realized I need to go to the gym more because he was wearing a white

t-shirt and it was very revealing. I was like, or just wear a dark t-shirt next year, Yonis. Like there's a pretty easy solution to that. So you had some humor and just to talk to them and see how much they really said actually the biggest thing that they're going to take away from this is really good team bonding. Yeah, it's a great opportunity to just be together again. And the players, especially in San Diego, were super creative. on how they did their entrances

and what their school celebrations would be. And in order to do that, you have to sit together and have those conversations and laugh about what you're going to do and practice it and do all this. And I don't know, that seems to, that could be an X factor with a group. If you really can get along

and understand people beyond the field, I think this San Diego team really relished that opportunity that they had. So I feel like they, Dedi had to teach after. word said, um, the biggest takeaway is, you know, this is a team we're going to fight with in 26 and I really like the group we're with. So, um, pretty nice. But then, you know, they're, they're leading goal score in McKenzie Roeby. They ended up saying that they were going

to keep her on the team. So I, I don't know. Maybe not all those people are going to be on the team in 2026, but I feel like there was a real deep, um, bonding going on within the group that could be the difference with them when push comes to shove next season. Awesome to get another soccer event on the calendar. I like this idea of it crossing between the two of Europe and the Americas, although I think the thing we all want to see is for all those teams on the field at the same time, which might require some form of calendar switch or someone to play at a weird portion of their offseason, whatever it ends up being.

It would be really, really cool to finally see that all go down. Let's dig into some big NWSL news, and then we will get to some of our wider thoughts about the league. And I don't think you can start an NWSL show right now and not talk about Trinity Rodman first. I just, I don't think it's legally allowed for any of us, contractually allowed, whatever phrase you want to use. And it continues to drag out and turn and turn in every single direction. So the latest news that we have is Trinity Rodman is a free agent, her contract. finished up at the end of the year coming out of the NWSL final it was reported that Washington Spirit and Trinity Rodman had agreed to a contract and that it had been sent to the league

office and it had been vetoed by the league office and so now they're back at square one since then Trinity Rodman's agent has come out and said the NWSL is forcing Trinity Rodman to go and have conversations elsewhere because they refused to allow her to make her market value and therefore she has no choice but to go have conversations outside of NWSL. The most recent quote that I have is one from Nathan Minion who's the general manager under new president of soccer operations Haley Carter, which is a whole another thing we still have to discuss involved in all of this and the quote is I think the league is committed to working with us and we're committed to working with them through that and with it

is kind of a lot of back and forth. So it's just a continual process, and that's why I say we're having probably daily conversations with them, trying to figure this out and trying to get a resolution that can hopefully keep Trinity here with us for a long time. This was in a press conference that Minion and Carter gave. It was the first one since they were officially announced and put into their positions.

So there's a lot to digest here. To me, it comes away as a few big notes. The first is, Trini Rodman wants to play for the Washington spirit, and she wants to play an NWSL. And the last time we sat down and spoke for this show, that was not the case. So that alone is a huge piece of news. It then trickles into the restrictions on how Washington can go about keeping her. And then on top of all of that, after the veto, the NWSL Players Association filed a grievance with the league for them.

them vetoing the contract and the contract structure because they didn't understand or they don't believe that it should have been. Where do you want to start with all of this? Well, I think I have a question just on that last part. Like, what even happens when you file a grievance with the league? I don't even, I know what it means in general, but like. Yeah. I guess the league has to investigate itself.

Or I would assume in the CBA there is some process that's agreed upon. Maybe there's a third party arbitrator that works at it, whether that's a soccer entity or not? I don't know. But yeah. Yeah, just I was just kind of scratched my head about that because I don't really know what happens when when that. Well, we love being labor lawyers. Like this is really fun for us. Well, it is one of my jobs. Yes. You needed an extra one because starting a team and broadcasting and everything else you do wasn't enough. Yeah, I just needed one more. That was just a light load. Just something light. So I will, I'll get back to you on what that really means. Yeah. Okay. Cool. I do think that the biggest

part of this is Trinity wants to stay here and it and she wants to stay in Washington because the fact that they got to a place where they had a contract that she felt comfortable with to it kind of what what her agent was saying makes it sound like they weren't talking to other clubs I can't imagine that I imagine she's talking to like he's not going to be silly like how do you know her market value if you're not talking to other clubs right now at a minimum minimum, you could, I could look you in the eyes and say, I'm not talking to other clubs, but clubs could reach out and say, we'd love to have Trinity here. This is our initial offer.

Okay. Which in theory you could fake into not. Yeah. But I get your point fully. Yeah. I just think that that was really, to me, I was, of course, disappointed that it didn't end up going through when it comes to the NWSL and their side of things, not approving the contract. but I also felt pretty hopeful that okay they got to a place where at least she feels comfortable

that she could stay so maybe I'm silly for feeling hopeful that this could actually work out am I silly for feeling hope no because I think the most important part of all of this is trity rodman's desire to be there like you could invent 97 contract structures if trinity rodman wants to play for a different team it doesn't matter yeah so that was and that was and we didn't know which wasn't we assumed she doesn't but you know Alyssa Thompson had left Naomi Germa had left like we didn't know private with the things that she's private with I would say and yeah we hadn't heard either way expressed yeah a real desire to say hey I want to go play somewhere else I want something new yeah so that part is really really big um and I think that to me is the is the whole reason that

it could happen because now everyone's whether or not the entities are swimming in the same direction or not there's a direction to go um on the contract side of things we talked about this a little bit on the kickback committee yesterday um it is odd to me that if it fits inside the bounds of the rules that you don't allow it it's a competitive sports league if Washington wants to ruin their cap potentially and the theory of what we've heard is Washington backloaded the contract, assuming the cap goes up over time, whether that's because of which it does. It's already in the CBA what the increase is. Right. I, and we don't know if they're hoping there are even more or not. Or they're just trying to calculate to that. If that's the

case, it's Washington's competitive right to sign a contract that maybe isn't the best idea if that's what they choose to do. And we don't know what it looked like. That's like the hardest part of all of this. We don't know if they took a roster, if they calculated 25 minimum contracts, and then said, we're going to give the rest to Trinity Rodman, which would be a bad sporting decision to do, but would be you're right. The other thing about soccer is if you have a player on your books that you can't afford, there are ways to transfer players and contracts away from your team, so you are not guaranteed that you're going to have that stuck. It felt like a preemptive move from NWSL and them saying, we don't think this will be

cap eligible in three years, so we won't let you sign it now. I can understand the language of getting away with that, which is like it technically isn't cap eligible in 2026 if you were giving her all of that money. So we're going to look at it this way and we're going to say it's ineligible. It seems like an extra step from a league that probably. probably does need to step in and protect some teams from themselves. Yeah. But in terms of who you would trust with decision making and professionalism and planning,

I think the Washington Spirit's front office and ownership group would sit above the league for most people. And I think that's the frustration from the outside of like, you don't need to hold their hand. If Michelle Kang needs to figure this out later, she's going to figure it out later. She's literally the only person on the planet we know 100% would figure this out. And so I think that's the frustration from the outside. I'm sure the frustration for Kang, too, is like she does have all this money. And if it was a new player... She's giving it away.

I know. If it was a new player coming into the league, right, she would easily play a transfer fee to get that player because that doesn't go on your books when it comes to cap. So it's just frustrating that she can't use the money that she would pay to acquire a player like Trinity Rodman to be able to add it to. what she's doing. I'm sure that's really frustrating for Michelle King because she has the ability to do pretty much whatever she wants

and is doing some really great things with her investments throughout the women's soccer world. Yeah, it just feels, it feels like the league is at this weird tipping point when it comes to contracts and cap and how they hold on to players and how this one continues to play out will really set a precedence in one direction or other and kind of almost it will, I think, either unlock the league or keep it structured in a way that, as you said, will help multiple teams, but it also won't help you contain,

not contain, keep the best players that are Americans here in America playing and I think that's what we want yeah mostly right like we want the u.s players who are going to play in the world cup who are the most recognizable to be playing in our league in the united states not in france not in spain not in england we want them to be playing here and i think the other countries have that same desire for their own internationals and so if you can't figure out a way to keep them you know i think that's going to be a really this is going to be very interesting to see how the rest of this saga turns out. And we have no idea how it will end.

But I think the hope was brought back for me. Because I think I felt like coming out of NWSL championship that on both sides, both the mechanism wouldn't be figured out. And the creativity of this and the creativity that Haley Carter has mentioned and that Nathan Minion has mentioned is like, okay, so everyone's working on that side of things, which is good. And it's because it kind of felt like, oh, well, they're boxed in. there's this and that and there's nothing else they could do.

And so they're working on structures to try and find a way to do this, which I think is provides that hope. And then Trinney Rodman's desire is to still be there, which wasn't a guarantee. And that wasn't going to be a knock on Washington or the fan base or the city or any of it. We have seen players make other decisions or choose other things. You know, she was rehabbing over in Europe. Like there was all this unknown and all of that around it. Before we move on from here, let's mention Haley Carter here.

She's been on this show a couple times. She's one of our favorites. She was the head of sporting for Orlando Pride, put together a team that did a double set every record last year and then set a transfer record this year and was fortunate enough to host a semifinal. Once again, finished as a top four seed. She now leaves Orlando to take over in Washington. The official title, as I said, was president of soccer operation. Yes, I just want to make sure I had the wording right there On that one, which comes in sitting above the general manager

Who's Nathan Minion, obviously there was an opening For this Washington group at the top of the front office And it doesn't feel like a better way you could fill it, Jordan. No, really good signing. And I saw Haley Carter at End of S.L. final And just gave her this look because the news just came out And we talked briefly a couple of times. I didn't really get to have the full-on conversation with her,

but I had heard she was going to Washington. And just excited because of, you know, I think if you're trying to lead the strategic plan of an organization and you get to work under an owner like Michelle Kang, you know that that plan is going to be heard and really be invested in. And I think that for Haley Carter and what she's shown, gone from, you know, being a player in Houston,

and working in Houston to then Orlando, now to Washington, she understands this league really well as a player, as a person in the front office, and she can clearly implement the vision that she has to try to help this Washington Spirit team continue to be leading the league in a lot of categories when it comes to what they're providing for their players and how they want to play and who they're going to bring in. And I think at the top of the athletic article,

also says her job is to help retain top talent like Trinity Rodman. So I guess that's on her plate too, but knowing her, she sees that as a challenge that she will face head on and do her best to do just that. It is a wild opening project to work on as joining. It's like, oh, by the way, welcome to the new job. The water's here. The Wi-Fi's this. And the biggest thing you will probably have to do ever is the first.

is the first thing we're going to start with and we're a couple of weeks behind. So we'd really love to get up to, yeah, we'd really love to get up to speed on that. It kind of feels a little bit like an Avengers super team move of like, I think we have talked over and over about how special Michelle Kang is as an owner and how much she cares.

I think Adrian Gonzalez has proven he's one of the best coaches. And I think if you ask people who's the top sports executive in the league, many would have said Haley Carter before this. So for her to come over and, and take control of this whole thing, I think is really exciting. It's probably a good time to do it because Adrian just became the full-time coach. You're not kind of coming into something that's fully established. And I think on top of all of that, one of the things you get from talking to her is she thinks

heavily about culture and leadership and the spaces you want to build for people. And I think there's a lot of big names that are coming in and out of that club that she can do a lot of really good for. and all of her passions about helping grow the game for women all around the world to tap into Michelle's network and belief and desires, what some of that could be really special outside of the Washington Spirit. She had a really funny line in her opening press conference, if you saw about a lot of international players on the spirits roster and dealing with visas.

And she was like, I was a Marine. I got over 200 people out of Afghanistan and to Australia as a Marine, so I know a thing or two about visas, which is like a crazy extreme on the other end to go to on something like that. But this was a gap that it was like, okay, what's next, right? Washington's been so successful for three years now with their draft, the international players they've brought in, like the squad they've built. What's going to come next?

And this feels like a home run of an option. I would like to point out, I think it's a little worrying for Orlando that this, in theory, is a lateral move. the two teams have been head to head in the table Orlando just set a transfer record and the move to Washington I think signifies internally here are the power rankings in people's heads

of where they want to be and where these clubs stand and it feels like now the stress is on Orlando to prove that that's not true and they've done a lot of that on the field but the building's not filled for most of the games They are not as market relevant as Washington is. They have taken half steps back at times. I think Barbara Banda's injury is a large part of that.

But it feels like Washington maybe is building the club even bigger. And now the impetus is on Orlando to try and match that. If they want to be a heavyweight. And I think Gotham's in there as well. And I think Kansas City's in there. Those are the four I think you would talk about in this way. But this is a signing that even though it's not on the field is one of the the most sought after people in the league saying this is where I'm going to put my

commitment this is where I want to take my risk this is where I think it will be successful and whether that's because of salary or not not all of that means Orlando's behind right now and they are right on the verge and I think they kind of have a decision to make as a club of do they want to push the envelope even further and follow the Casey's in Washington's into that world or if they're kind of going to sit on the edge and be a little bit different so it is has to be worrying times for Orlando Pride fans. This is the person who built that roster for you and put that team together.

Speaking of, we've got two other non-socker player conversations to talk about. We will talk about a listener who just resigned with Chicago and we'll be playing another year in NWSL, which we love to see and we love to hear. But we're going to start off the field. Let's start with Portland, who, since we've been gone, has let Rob Gale go as head coach

and has not obviously announced a replacement yet. They did announce that their assistant coach, Sarah Loden, would serve as interim head coach. I don't know what that means right now because you don't have a season, but that was what they put in their phrase. But Rob Gale, after being interim last year, being giving the full-time job,

steps away or is let go at the end of the season. They finished third in the overall table. They won the opening playoff game against San Diego and went to Washington and lost in the semifinal. So a pretty big surprise, I think, across the league that he was let go. I've had conversations with people behind the scenes off the record that some people were surprised and some people weren't. And I think my reaction was I thought he had done enough to keep the job and keep the opportunity.

But if you are whatever it is, front office ownership group that doesn't fully believe, then you need to make that call earlier rather than later, rather than waste a season. And so if you're looking at the underlying numbers or the environment around the team or whatever it is that are your markers coming out of this year saying, we think that this team can improve and we don't think this was good enough, I would at least rather you be bold and make that decision now and get your full process of interviewing and have someone ready for preseason than to let it lag on.

And then five games into the year, if he struggles, that's where you make the move and now you send the whole season in chaos. Either way, probably not ideal right now for Portland to be without a head coach. I was shocked. I was like, what is going on in Portland? And even if you have markers that you're trying to get to, Goss,

this was a team that we picked 13th going in to the season to finish 13th and they finish third. And so those markers that these players or the team ended up hitting are with, I'm sorry, Portland, with a bunch of players who were probably not going to be starters at the beginning of the year. And then we're starters. So, like, do you get what I'm saying, like those markers and the point that you're trying to get to? Maybe you would have gotten with a Morgan Reiger and we've already know, Sophia Wilson, and Nicole Payne and the other Mueller, Kaya Hanks. You know, I can keep going and going. Because they had so many injuries. And yet still,

they found a way to make it to third. And I get what you're saying. Be bold, make the decision. I understand that. I don't think with what Rob Gale did, it felt like to me, and I don't know the ins and outs of everything. It didn't feel like the right decision to me.

But then the fact that you say that you're naming your assistant coach, the interim to me says you have no plan. Yeah. So you have to have an interim because you don't have any idea who your coach is. That's what it says to everybody. So when you fire your head coach at the end of the season knowing you have

preseason starts in a month one month from now. It's December 10th. They're starting January 15th-ish. That's when players are starting. That you have to have an interim head coach because you don't have all your ducks in a row to know who you want. After you fire a coach that got you to third in the table,

it's a little whack to me. So all of that I agree with. I think one of the things where I'm saying watch your marks and being bold is they were also one point away from being sixth in the league and two points away from being seventh and to knock it the example was the gap for them in the semifinals against Washington was larger than the gap was between them and Gotham ended up winning the championship but I'd argue them in North Carolina. I think the biggest issue for Portland over the last few years

has been their build. They have not built well. So now you've gotten to a place. You are a dynasty. You are a club that most clubs would be happy with third. Most clubs would be happy with sixth. We got to the playoffs, anything can happen. If you're Portland Thorns, you're not happy unless you win the championship.

Unless you win the Shield, you have to win one of those trophies. And I think that they have built that reputation within the league. And this is where I'm saying, I don't, think it's Rob's fault. I don't think it's the player's fault. I think it's the people's fault who's making the decision of who's on this team. Because if you build correctly and you lose some players like a Washington, you have the right players to continue to keep the standard high. But if you don't build well, then you're not in the good place. And I don't think it's, you know, the people that are there now. I think this has been an issue with Portland over the

last few years of player retention, of keeping some of the players with big names who have set the culture, a lot of it has been turnover, right? They've lost a lot of big name players with big reputations and a lot of personality and culture. So, but they haven't filled that. I just don't think they have gotten the pieces to fill in there that other, that they should have, to keep the standard really high to say, okay, I think. with this group that they've built, they should be very happy with third. And maybe they think they can get more out of them

and good for them, if that's what they think. I think they squeezed a lot of juice out of that orange. And I think that makes a ton of sense. I would throw out there that I think a bunch of the decision makers were not a part of not only a lot of this, but not picking Rob Gill. Like ownership shifted and front office shifted. And if it's not your guy,

this is where I'm saying, if it's not your person, I've seen clubs that have existed for a long time where like the sporting director and the coach don't agree. So the sporting director is bringing in players that the coach doesn't want to play or plays them out of position and then says, well, I can't play them. They're not good enough or they don't even have a relationship. I mean, I've seen clubs and you know better than me

where like the sporting director can't come to the locker room because the coach won't allow it. I'm not saying any of that has happened. But my point is, if you don't think it's your person, but you didn't want to throw this season down the drain. And as you said, it was good. Like, they were overperforming. But there's a lot of proof this year that they also struggled in a lot of ways.

And some of that should have happened because of the injuries they had. And as you said, the expectations that we had. But then once it went well, it dropped down. They had long stretches where they were struggling. There was, I think, some odd decision making. I mean, an insistence of playing Casillanos at center forward when maybe there were other options, not giving Jaden Perry options or opportunities,

which I think is one of those things where that's probably a front office thing of like, we think this is a future starter. Like we need to try and play them. And Rob Giles looking at it and goes, does she give me the best chance of winning on Saturday right now? Probably not. So I'm not going to. Those are the fights you have. Those are the conversations you have.

The back on all of this, which we're not disgusting, is is Sophia Wilson going to play for this club? I have no idea. And it feels to me, like, if... Has to affect this. It has to affect this.

I mean, if she came into a meeting and said, I want to play for Rob Gale, there's no way he's gone. Right. And I wouldn't, I'm not saying, I would be surprised if it was the other one. And it was like that strong of an opinion. Right. But I think if clearly isn't the first, also, but we don't even know if she's coming into a meeting.

I think just seeing her around, she was at the championship, seeing her at the national team this past camp around her with an adorable baby with an adorable baby oh my goodness so cute that makes me feel like better than I felt before because we hadn't she hadn't been around at all and I found that just interesting and of course you just had a baby do whatever you want to do

I'm not saying you have to do anything but the fact that we saw her I think is a indication of like, all right, I'm ready to, like, be back around these people again. Yeah. And maybe that's given her a little bit of an itch to get back out on the field and figure out where she's going to be, whether that's in Portland or somewhere else. But I think everybody's hoping just with everything that's going on that they see a Sophia Wilson signing at some point, especially people in Portland are hoping that.

Yeah, I mean, she has the player option for this year and then her contract is up. So she is, in all intensive purposes, a free agent if she wants to be. Yeah. I think she could probably decline the option and still resign. It doesn't mean she's leaving. Right. We haven't heard anything. So that's just this huge factor around all of this, which we don't know what the front office knows,

but they have to manage if they think she's coming or if they don't, what does the team look like and how do you build it otherwise? And it's a huge question mark. And then your hope is you get some of these other players back from injury. And there was a lot to like from last year, and there's a lot of talent that they under-earth that they can feel confident in going forward. And I would say they have built one of the best midfields in the league. So they have this strength that you can build the rest of it off of going forward. Other head coach options as well, Bay of C has announced their new head coach, making the addition in Emma Coates coming over from England.

I have 900 things open, and that one was right there. And now I have an advertisement for holiday bundles from Bay of C. I got that too. Emma Coates comes over after guiding England's women's U-23 team since 2023 has been inside the England set up for a while, originally coached their U-19s, and before that had coached Doncaster Rovers as a club. And obviously, part of the context around this is BayFC's brought in a new sporting director who also comes from the England FAA.

So you're talking about two people who have worked together very closely, and this is now your second coach hiring, but probably some really similar ideas in terms of soccer and background there for this Bayfc Club. I will be honest, I don't watch a ton of England U-23 games, but what did you make of this when you saw the news come out? And I can go crunch tape if I need to. Yeah, I do with all my free time. That's like my favorite past time. While you're reading law books about workers law. law employment law there we go i knew what it was called of course well it says it on the top of the book yeah i have not watched a lot um but i it makes sense with the relationship between the the sporting director

and now the head coach knowing each other from england and i'm interested to see you that it says in the press release to a part of the english national team that um had success in both of the last euro so at what you know what part is she helping in those i i think people would be maybe thinking like this is a very from what we saw england this year it was a lot more defensive than it was in the first year i was right like you're just trying to grasp at like any kind of how is this style of play going to look like um undercoats for this bay fc team but i i think it's i'm excited you're bringing someone in with new ideas clearly experience working at the international level one of the things that she said that she's most excited about is being back on the grass.

Both her and Gemma Davies both said grass, like being on the grass every single day, which I don't know, it was like an English thing. Yeah, I think it is. Like being out on the field. Yeah, I think it is. They're just excited to be out on the grass. Just loving grass. Yeah, they love grass.

The Bay Area has great grass. So they're going to enjoy that. And they're going to have a brand new training facility to be able to train their team in. and I think that'll open this year for Bay FC. There's a lot to look forward to if you're a coach coming into Bay because there's good pieces there, but you could tell it's seeking structure. It's just really these players want to know exactly what's expected of them.

And I think they're hopeful that this is the right move and that they can jump from a place where it was a little bit all over the place with their performances to, being more consistent weekend and wake out. Yeah. There is a lot of potential with this club

and there is not a lot of proof yet. And so you're trying to do, I think, two things right now. You're trying to re-establish. That's the wrong phrase. Refurbish what's already there, which is like a lot of great talent. You know, I think we saw their rookies

last year were really impressive. Obviously, Kundan. She's one of the best in the league. Abby Dahlkemper, if she can be healthy and be there for you. Like, there's a lot there to like. It's not just, okay, we're slow rebuild. What do we look like in four years? Tuss Bodie, Taylor Huff.

I mean, awesome. Boreen Bailey, really good core players. So that's, I think, the main side of this is like, how can we win now, but also build a structure to win in the future? So you look at a coach whose background is youth development. Can you help those players get better? Can you then also bring talent in that you're starting to develop for the future to fill in for some of the stars?

who might be leaving, and I think just have an overall soccer idea. It felt like Albertine Montoya really swung from possession to defensive. And inside of those big swings, it felt like there was a lot of movement week to week. You talked about being consistent. Like, I don't know that they ever knew who they were. And so there was very reactive to opponents as things went along. And I think from year one, it felt like they were going in the right direction. And then it sort of fell apart in year two.

so this feels like a hard reset in terms of sporting structure for this club where maybe they did not get it right I mean they didn't get it right from out the gate like there Lucy Rushden's already left the club like there's a lot that went wrong which is hard now to redo but there's still some good pieces in there from a soccer point of view so can you like do the work on the back end to rebuild the structure and scouting department and you know what's your game model and all that type of stuff while also being competitive on the field and this feels like a good opportunity to try and do both but there's a bit of on note like has never has not been a head coach at a club level in five years has never competed in WSL and that comes some of the structure that has not been around NWSL so there's massive question marks around this the idea around this but I feel like one of the things we saw last year was a lot of people coming to NWSL especially as coaches who hadn't been there be fairly successful. I think Yonis Ida Valle, obviously high on that list. I mean, Adrian Gonzalez two years ago that became Yonantan Jarlades. I think there's proof that like if you have

strong overall soccer concepts and you're intelligent and can sort of grasp things quickly, you can figure it out. And so I'm less committed to, they have to have NWSL experience and more do you have the right person in the role? I think you nailed that. I'm with you. Oh, wow. Amazing. nailed it okay before we get into some of the things we've been thinking about listen there resigning with chicago so one more year at least it just felt like we never got the opportunity to really say goodbye and good she's not take a bye on that year no but the last two years have just been she's just been peppered with like so many terrible goals she can't leave like that and i will say in the comment she makes, she does not say

a last year. So she is saying another year. Of course she is. She's ready to compete and that's not shocking. But Jordan, we wanted to talk about Chicago anyway. Okay. How can this club be better for a listener in this next year? Oh, yeah. So are we going to our things that were

a few things? A few things that we're, you know, just are keeping us excited about. Braindrops on roses and whiskers on kittens. I really emphasize the teas in kittens. I appreciate that because people won't know otherwise what you're saying. I know.

Okay, now that I've taken us off that track. I've had to read a lot of scripts recently and me mumbling through like sentences with the same letter over and over. You're like, I don't even know how to say the letter B anymore. Yeah, well, you got to emphasize. Yeah. So anyways, let's get back to a few things that we are just kind of noodling before 2026. We talked about Bay and now Chicago, and these are two things that I'm actually, I'm really excited to see what happens in 2026 for both of these teams. We just talked about why we're excited for Bay, now with Chicago. We saw what assistant coach, formerly interim head coach, Anders Jacobson, did with the team. And now to bring in Shugren, Martin Shugren. We're going to work on how to say his last name because

um yeah that's hard for me but i i have heard really good things about him from elamasser about how he has a plan and you could already see that plan be related through what yacobson was doing with the stars at the end of the year it looked like they had a real structure they were more attacking minded they were getting more players in the attack and i feel like when you bring when you're a listener and you see that things are looking more stable on okay we're going to have the ball a little bit more we're going to be in an attacking posture more often and actually that is going to help us defend higher up on the field I would probably sign up for another year too because I would be probably I would be hoping I would

give up less goals than before and I think they're in a good spot one thing I'm hopeful for for both of these teams is that they add a couple of key pieces because it does feel like they're missing something I think Bay needs a nine right they need someone to be able to really add, like be a point in their attack centrally that can be the focal point. And then for Chicago, it'll, how does it look with Mallory Swanson back? I think is the big question. You cut out for a second. And when you said needs and I thought you were talking about Chicago and I was going to ask you a question, which is less relevant now. Because I was talking about Bay. Yeah. But that's okay. I think of the two of them, I'm actually more excited for Chicago.

maybe that's the potential for a jump versus we saw who Bay was last two years ago and maybe the idea is like they'll probably be close to at least around there with Chicago though it feels like in one of the reasons i'm excited to see kickback committee's own brianapinto get there is it feels like there is so much vertical threat and danger and one v one ability and if they can just have someone pull the strings a little bit ludmila chacon um and you talk about Joseph, who has already been there, and now if Mal Swanson comes back, there is a lot of threat and, like, danger and attack to that team. And they found defensive stability as Sam Estab got back, and Alyssa Nair returning makes that even easier for them. And so it feels

like a very, like, obvious pathway forward for them, where the hardest thing to do is score goals and create chances. And most teams, when they struggle, Utah two years ago, Houston last year like okay where are you going to find that it that she feels like chicago already has that which wasn't the case for all of last year like right when they lost mal swanson for the season um before they brought some of the additions that they ended up bringing in the team felt very toothless and it felt like teams could press high on them because you weren't going to hurt them over the top and they couldn't really play into your shape and there wasn't a ton of threat one v one but as they found i think getting ludmila more comfortable and confident and as they found themselves as the season went

long and grosso it felt like really settled into nwsl there's a lot of options there where now life becomes easier for a mouse wants and to come back into or it becomes easier for a new addition to get added into and so i think there should be excitement about this team but with that there should be expectations and the expectation floor should be you just have to be more professional and competitive as a club that's not on the players that's on the club like some of the signings they made of like three-month signings, college players who were not ready, all that stuff over the last two years is like borderline unacceptable. Which is interesting because they also, you know,

that's under new ownership. That wasn't under previous ownership. Yes. I agree. I think that I'm hopeful that this new, getting a new head coach and I guess they upped some of their training facilities over the year as well, things like that that will help you not just get players in the door but retain those players too is going to be important i think bringing in hendritch was really

big for them to the center back from germany added a lot of professionalism into this group that lacked um some really lacked leadership in that back line i i would say because stab was you know she is a leader but she's focused on like i'm just getting back from injury so you bring in hendritch and i thought those two did really well together if they're going to be in my opinion of what a good NWSL, like competing in every single game in the style of play, I think they have to upgrade their outside backs. And I'm interested to see if and how they can do that or what they get out of the players that they already have.

So because it does feel like they were going to want the ball and to play progressively through the thirds and how can those players in different times add to the attack. They lack that and then it kind of comes one dimension. right like our wingers have to do everything and you want your wingers to do a lot but not everything right you want them at times to be able to be front runners in a two front you want them to be able to isolate in the channel so it'll just give them some different looks but I think that's one of the areas and then I know Brianna Pinto is is going there I will she play as a 10 will she play as an 8 but they lose ali schlegel which I think will actually be pretty difficult for this team because she has

has kind of become the heartbeat of this Red Star Squad. She does a lot of dirty work for all the attacking players we mentioned, which someone else has to do that. Like, that's the big expectation for them is if you don't replace her in some way, then you need everyone to give 7% more in that way of chasing down dead balls, of challenging centerbacks, of making life miserable, of holding it a little bit longer, drawing fouls when the game's against you, like all this stuff. that she does really, really well.

And I don't want to be too excited about her moving to North Carolina because I feel like last year when North Carolina brought in what I thought was going to be the right center forward, I got really excited and it didn't really work out. So I'm going to let myself wait and not get hurt again. All right. That would be a few of our things then. On that one, it will be our next things that will be pondering. I was going to throw out there about Gotham F.C., which is an obvious one to say.

They just won. I think one of the things that I came around to coming out of the championship, which we talked about in our show after, was like going into it, everyone's like, well, of course, Gotham are giants. And they are in the global stratosphere of soccer. And I really didn't feel like on the field they were this year. And I don't know that I felt that way for the last two years. And I think what I came around to was they won the title so somewhat unexpectedly three years ago now. and the team wasn't really built to then take a next step and they got this opportunity to add all these superstars

and they did so because you never don't do that. Like you always take that risk. Yeah. And now this feels sustainable to me. And the way they've built, this feels like year one of a run and a dynasty. And so I'm excited to see them take the next step. Is Mitch first come back?

I don't know. Like there are big questions and all of that. But I look at this group and I think of all the young players that were a part of it, that I think can get better and should get better as they go along, plus a Tierna Davidson coming back from injury and getting a full year of Ellis Stevens. So to me, I'm excited because I think these giants and dynasties are necessary. Like that's what's box office.

That's what brings ratings is having giants being like, can anyone beat them? Can anyone take advantage? Or when they come to town, everyone wants to come out and see them. And that's partially stars, but it's also the success of a team. it feels to me like now got like almost like that one I don't want to say fluke because that's not the right term because the team that was built wasn't fluky but it was built on Ali Krieger and other players that weren't going to be around for the long term and now this one feels like was built with a longer runway in mind and I think the league needs these types of teams to continue to push things I think Orlando's one I think Washington's one as I've said and I think Kansas City's one even though they didn't make it too they didn't win a playhouse game and make it to a championship. I will have to break your heart a little bit, but I do know Ellis Stevens is not returning. I think that was announced.

Yes. Okay. Well, yeah. But she'll be an end of a cell hopefully somewhere. So you can bring that fandom somewhere else. I will, I would watch Ella Stevens play on any soccer field. I know. I think everybody's just hopeful she's, she'll be healthy because she is such a joy to watch.

She would be a World Seven's first pick for me. For sure. You're talking about one v.1 ability? I wonder what. NWSL teams watching. I bet everybody watched and was like, I don't want to play in that. Yeah. Like, sign me up.

Let's go next year. Even though it's right at the end of the season, it looked like they had the best time. Anyways, I liked what you said about Gotham. And I do. I think that's why people get into sports, right? It's the Chicago Bulls in the 90s, right? It's the Dallas Cowboys in the 90s. Why am I only talking about 90s, right?

Or the New England Patriots. We be old. Yeah, we be old. You know, you get into those, and then there's always a, there's always a story around it, right? You want to beat that team. You want to just take them off their pedestal. And I do feel like Gotham has done such a good job of setting the tone by bringing Danielle Ava Bush West, Juan Carlos Ambros, and those two have set the culture of like, we're going to get better.

And it might not be evident every single week that, like, this team, I would say the first half of this season was not great for Gotham at all. But they just kept plugging away and they kept finding a way to stay in it and around it. And in that, individual players got so much better. I think we saw the best year we've ever seen of Jalen Howell. And that's just the beginning of what I think we can see from her. So there is a lot to like and still be excited for of progression when it's. comes to this Gotham squad and they can do that now with two stars above their chest and jaden shaw hopefully just continuing to get better i think we saw it with the national team how comfortable

she looks okay so the other ones we had we both kind of had the same things when we talked about it before so we'll just roll through them um let's start with expansion because we always have to talk about expansion uh Denver and boston coming to the league i think we had different thoughts about it but we were both, it's one of the things I think we're both thinking about all the time. Yeah, I'm excited because it's new ideas into the league. We're seeing two new coaches. We're seeing a bunch of new players coming from, you know, I think especially in Boston already, we've seen two new Brazilians come in. What are they going to add to this league? And then what players from around the league are going to these teams? And it always, expansion year is interesting, right? Last year was

interesting, sorry, not 2025 last year, 2024 was interesting because everybody kind of tries to find their new footing without some of the big players that they've had that have gone to different teams. And so I am interested to see how it settles across the whole entire league, but more than anything, just two new styles of Lagos, like two new coaches with different ideas, a Portuguese coach, an English coach. I'm very intrigued to see what that looks like when it comes to the beginning of the year. I also am excited for this. I think the way you talked about it,

which I hadn't fully thought is just 52 more roster spots, like more talent coming in, more players, more options, and obviously the change in styles. To me, the thing that I'm really fascinated by is post the new CBA, is it easier or harder? Because when you look back at expansions,

I mean, Ali Sentinor was the best player the first year on Utah. Ali Settinor doesn't go to Utah if there's no draft. Right. But also the team wasn't good enough to take advantage and build it. And so I think there's disadvantages to an expanse in draft and being required to sign specific players in a specific way and having draft picks, but also wildly valuable. So I'm very excited to see what does it look like now? Is it easier?

Is it harder? Is it just different? My guess will be it'll end up being easier because you just have more flexibility. to do it however you want, but I think maybe one of the issues both clubs might have is not having the same level of NWL experience because you didn't have the expansion draft to go through and bring those players in, but I've been fairly excited about most of the names I've seen already come through, but we're going to talk now about some young players, and I would say if this was a normal year, whichever team's number one is drafting Jordan

Dudley, and that's potentially a world-class player coming into your club without you figuring anything out right now the responsibilities on them to go try and sell her and bring her in and maybe that's the right move and maybe that's not should should we do right now uh congratulations the floor state for winning another national championship we absolutely should since you since you just talked about jordan dudley yeah great there it is congrats they beat stanford you love that right of course yeah yeah i have no rivalry with any of this so i don't care yeah yeah okay carry on uh let's talk about rookies because I was really excited about the rookie class this year and I think one of the things I have been looking at as I talked about that Gotham conversation specifically is I think we're

talking about a huge crop of players that are going to be really good next year and step into some huge responsibility roles and hopefully continue to advance their careers so I think I've been thinking about two one what's the next rookie class look like was this just special or is this the reality of the new CBA which is if you could pick your spot rather than being forced into team maybe you end up in more comfortable situations maybe the responsibility for the club is higher of like well we sold you on this we promised you this this is sort of what we owe you but either way this was a special group of players so lily real ended up with the rookie of the year uh riley ternan was in the voting as well as was mattie deline but that those are three of 12 players i had down here

of kaya hans jane perry maggie graham uh ella elahas sarah sarah Weber, how important she was for Louisville, Hasbo and Shepansky in Gotham. Like, there are so many young players who stepped into the league this year and looked ready to play. Was Joseph a rookie? No. No. This is her second year.

Second year. But she's like so young that she keeps getting called into those futures camps for the U.S. The national team. Yeah. I love that. I'm excited to see the roles that those players from 2025, who are around. Ricky's what they played. Trinity Armstrong was. What did you say? Trinity Armstrong. Taylor Huff.

Yeah. Like they've already played big roles, but now how do you how do you make that sophomore season not a sophomore slump? That's that's a good question. And what does what is the expectation on you now that you know what the league is like? But also I think one of the fun things is I used to have to prep for a draft and have to look through all the highlights of all these different players and call all my coach friends around the country and be like, what's about this player? This is about this player. And now that I don't do that, I really feel like I show up and get to see these players

play without much, you know, I don't watch a ton of college soccer because I don't have time to watch it with my, you know, my other jobs that we talked about. So I don't. Because that's when you're at the law firm. Yeah. So I don't watch a ton of college soccer. And I get to see what these players. can do at the next level.

And it felt like this year they seamlessly fit in. Will that happen every year? Will that happen in 2026? I'm curious. And I'm really excited to see some of the players that I did watch the national championship. Some of those players come into NWSL and how they can hold their own here. So it's a good thing to think about.

And there's actually a couple other, one of the other things that I was thinking about. I think this is our last one, is it? And. I mean, you don't have to ask if you want to ask if you want. I just, no, no, I think the last one was just the two players I liked watching all season long, Kimi Asconio and Manaka Matukubo. And they happened to be really young players, 17 for Ascanio, 20 for Monaca. She ends up winning midfielder of the year. But separately, I just, I loved watching when their teams played because you didn't know what you were going to get from either one of them. I mean, you knew you would get consistency, and I think Asconio really caught me by surprise.

We saw her play a little bit last year, but she played in four different positions this year. And every position, she looked like that was her position. Like, fine, I can do this. I can be the best player at this position. So where does she really, truly fit in with the San Diego team in 2026? So she can play in the same spot every single year. I think that's one of the things I'm looking forward to next year. And then I just can't wait for more chip goals from Monaca.

and more just a little cheekiness from her because she's just so sweet and freaking good. Yeah. She's so good. And I love watching her play. Will North Carolina add some pieces around her so she can continue to dish to other players, but it's the goals, more goals from Monaca for me.

I love that. And I will say the one thing without the draft, which besides just your research, is you don't have a draft list. So there's no like, well, this is the second ranked player. This is the third ranked player. Like, you know, we don't see what the payment is in contracts. So you know the length of contracts, which shows the value people have.

And obviously you have Matt Herman trophy voting and you have experts that I think we both follow that cover the college game even more and can talk about transitions. But when you come out of a draft, it's like, well, this is the number seven pick. That's the expectation. This is the number 10 pick. That's the expectation. You lose that scale a little bit as well, which makes it really, really fun. Then when you get into the year, congrats the Lily Reel for the Rookie of the Year trophy and won an NWSL championship and then went and played for the U.S. Women's National Team.

So it's like not a bad year for her. Not a bad month for her at all. Well, thank you to all of you for being here. We've got one more live show that we're going to be doing next week. We're going to work on some stuff to tide you over the holiday period. and then we will be back, of course, in 2026. But it's been a blast covering this season from start to finish. And the news feels like it just never stops, you know.

So we've got a lot to talk about going forward. Thank you all for listening. We'll talk to you again very, very soon. You know,