Social Work Spotlight - Episode 108: Jamie

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

In this episode I speak with Jamie, an Accredited Mental Health Social Worker and a Senior Social Worker who works both in private practice and within a community mental health service. Jamie has experience working in the UK and Australia and has a special interest in providing psychological therapy to older adults.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Brené Brown’s conversations with Drs John Gottman and Julie Schwartz Gottman on The Love Prescription - https://brenebrown.com/podcast/the-love-prescription-part-1-of-3/The Gottman Institute professional training - https://www.gottman.com/professionals/training/Esther Perel’s podcast ‘Where Should We Begin?’ - https://www.estherperel.com/podcastSocial Worker in Private Practice podcast (Tammy Roche) - https://open.spotify.com/show/4vaR5Bgkh2oMeopl5U9ETD?si=fe544c2d2a3b46d4Dr Russ Harris’ workshop ACT Made Simple - https://www.actmindfully.com.au/product/act-made-simple/The Happiness Trap resources (Dr Russ Harris) - https://thehappinesstrap.com/free-resources/Cognitive Behaviour Therapy - Basics and Beyond (Judith Beck) - https://www.cbtaustralia.com.au/shop/p/cognitive-therapy-basics-and-beyond-89ew4Mental Health Academy - https://www.mentalhealthacademy.com.au/SW Spotlight episode with Kristin (UK-based social worker) - https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/socialworkspotlight/episodes/Episode-98-Kristin-e2c3iugThis episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cz0SlUcw01BGPKVqciaHdMR0NCudIvYjCMUb97iX4O8/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession in each episode.

I'm your host, Jasmine Lumpus, and today's guest is Jamie, an accredited mental health social worker and a senior social worker who works both in private practice and within a community mental health service. Jamie has experience working in the UK and Australia and has a special interest in providing psychological therapy to older adults. Thank you so much, Jamie, for coming on to the podcast. and meeting with me today and sharing a bit about your social work experience so far. Thank you, Yasmin. It really is an honour. I'd love to know firstly when you began as a social worker and what got you into the profession. So when I started university, I did a Bachelor of Arts degree and didn't know what I wanted to do

when I graduated. So I decided to choose whatever I wanted to choose for first year, chose a lot of different subjects, chose psychology and really enjoyed. psychology, but didn't like the stats part of it. So I decided to find something that I guess also included working with people with the option of, you know, providing therapy, working in the mental health space. So I guess I stumbled upon social work. I managed to be accepted into an art social work degree and really enjoyed it. So I guess I kind of fell into the social work profession. We had two placements. The first placement was in a federal government agency and I really did not enjoy that. It was quite a, I guess, mundane, quite boring placement. And so I kind of questioned myself thinking,

do I really want to be a social worker working in this kind of environment? Come second placement, I was really actually privileged to be offered a place in a community, mental health team, working with older people. Enjoyed this experience immensely. Just enjoyed case management, being able to go and visit people in their home, feeling welcomed by people with mental illness. And I think that really opened my eyes. These vulnerable people in the community really needed the services that I could provide.

And I really enjoyed it. I loved being able to see them in their home, you know, complete, the mental health assessment, but not only just, you know, work with them clinically, but also being able to refer them to services that may help them. So for the older people that I worked with, you know, it was referring them to domestic support or community transport if they couldn't leave their house without some assistance. So, yeah, I really enjoyed that placement. I was always very grateful for my supervisor as well because he gave me a caseload and he said,

go for it. I think you'll be fine. So I guess I learned quickly, but I learned a lot. And yeah, so once I graduated, I decided to try and find a social work role in a mental health team. So I did. So that's where I started as a mental health clinician and social worker. Was there anything available in the service that you were placed in or you had to go external? No, unfortunately not. So yeah, I went elsewhere. So I ended up in a Western Sydney community mental health team. It wasn't specifically for older people. But I thought, you know what, it's my foot in the door at that stage.

So I was an adult team. Worked there for a year. It was very challenging. I think, unfortunately, it caused burnout in me. I think it was a huge caseload. Lack of support, especially, I guess being a new graduate. Very medical model as well. So it was not, I guess,

something that I had experienced so much after going through university. So yeah, look, I stay there for a year and then I thought I would try to experience what it's like being an inpatient social worker. So I then applied for and was successful in getting a acute geriatric ward social worker role. And that was for about six months because at that stage in my personal life, I was also planning a wedding, getting married and then planning to go to London to work as a social worker. So it was a good opportunity to get a taste for a social work role within a hospital setting. Realised I didn't like that.

Realised it was too structured. I did feel like, you know, there was a lot of pressure to clear beds and discharge people before they were ready. and I found that really quite difficult, like ethically difficult to do, I guess. But, you know, the pressure's on because the bed situation, there was never enough beds, really. Yeah. But I guess you had in mind that it was always going to be a temporary thing. That's right. So probably made it a bit easier to stick out.

That's right. Exactly. You know, so at least I got a taste for an inpatient hospital setting. Yeah. Okay, wow. And then everything happened as you hoped it would with the transition and the wedding, wedding planning itself is difficult while you're still, you know, at any time, let alone a new grad was kind of thrown into the profession. But then once you've done that, then planning to

move overseas, which is huge. Yeah, yeah. Look, it was something that my husband and I had wanted to do even when we first met. So it was something, it was a goal, like it's a shared goal. He's a teacher. So, you know, we both could do that. It was. was a potential. So once he graduated, because he graduated, I think, about a year after me, we got married and, yeah, moved to London for a year, stayed with my cousin for a bit, till we found our own rental studio. But it was a really good experience. And I do highly recommend to any young social worker to get that experience. It's just you get to see, you know, how other First World countries do it, I guess, at different parts, I guess. I know I only work

in London, so I can't, you know, speak for the whole of England or the UK, but from what I saw, I think, you know, we could do things a bit better in Australia or for where I work anyway. And that was a long time ago. Yeah. A few episodes back, I interviewed Kristen, who is originally from Mackay in Queensland, moved over to the UK for similar experience to yours and then stayed. And now she has her UK citizenship. And she runs a programme, supporting social workers in Australia and New Zealand to do what you did to go and get that experience overseas. And she was mentioning that age was recently increased from 30 to 35.

So I guess that's one benefit, but just encouraging people to reach out to Kristen find her details in a few episodes ago and definitely get her experience and support because that's what she was saying is initially when she moved over. She didn't really know anyone and it was really hard. there were a few times when she thought, why did I do this? I just want to go home. Did you have a similar sort of adjustment period? I was lucky in that my cousin lives in London. So I was able to stay with her. I also had my husband. So, you know, I did have that support. So yeah, I can imagine though, going there by yourself would be quite a daunting experience. Yeah.

But no, that's amazing that she stayed. Good on her. absolutely what kind of social work were you doing there so I was working in the Westminster borough or Westminster Council in an older person's team it wasn't mental health specific but it was more assessing people for home support packages so as a social worker I would go to people's homes and assess their needs and approve them for the services that they needed to be able to continue to live independently at home. Okay, so similar to our ACCA. Similar to ACA. Yes, that's correct. Very similar. The difference was the amount of care that I was able to approve was a lot more compared to what happens here. You know, there was one example of a lady who was pretty much

housebound and you know, part of our team there was an occupational therapist that was arranged and she set up a kitchen and a bedroom in her lounge room. So she could continue to live at home independently with some support services, but not needed, you know, she didn't need to go to an aged care facility. And I think she was even receiving like 30 hours a week of home care assistance, you know. And that's a lot if you look at what is available here. So yeah, it was really eye-opening, I think, what can be done to keep people supported and living at home. And of course it's cheaper to do that than to have people going into

an aged care facility. So yeah. Yeah. And here we do have a subsidy for those services at home. I assume it's the same in the UK. I believe it was free at that time. I don't know if it's changed. It was also, I think Westminster was quite a like a wealthy borough compared. So I don't know if other councils were, you know, quite as generous. But I do know. Yeah, that borrower, I'm sure that they were able to get a lot of these assistance for free. Yeah. Yeah, that's the way to do it is, you know, you've paid your taxes, you've done what you need to do and now you need support.

If you're assessed as making that help, I feel like it should be free. But that's usually a huge warrior for people of being able to afford that care in the first place at home. Exactly. Exactly. Totally. And, you know, especially for pensioners as well, it's tough to be able to, I know, it's good that the government does provide a subsidy, but, you know, often it's not enough.

So some people are missing out on being able to get or being able to try to balance, okay, well, if I need, say, for example, assistance with domestic cleaning, I won't be able to get any social support or, you know, I won't be able to get someone to come and take me and have a coffee out, you know, and get that kind of social interaction. So sometimes it's a bit like, what do I forego, I guess? Yeah. Yeah. And was it a range of disciplines working in your team or were they mostly social workers?

Yeah, so there was social workers and then there was, I think, the equivalent of like a social work assistant. I can't remember their name, but yeah. So there was social workers who were able to, I guess, sign off on a particular amount of care packages and then the assistance would do, I think it was like the on call if someone needed you know, say for example, someone needed plumbing, they would organise for the plumber to go out and fix their home, that kind of thing. Yeah. Wow. That's super responsive. I just can't imagine that happening here. Very different. Yep. Different system. So with the social work assistants,

did they have, say, like our equivalent of a TAFE community services diploma? Did they have similar training, but just not the bachelor? I think so. To be honest, I can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember but I do remember that they were working just as hard. I do remember them being very busy. And not paid the same way. No. No, that's right. That's a big thing. I'm seeing more and more as I move through different sort of areas of social work is that you've got our colleagues who are working in community roles in Australia who are getting paid potentially half of what other people are and they're working just as hard if not harder. So yeah, it makes me sad and it's that equality is just not there.

So anyway, there's so much that we can do. And sometimes you think, is it better just to have balance and quality and good people around you that acknowledge the work you're doing instead of trying to climb up and get to some of those areas where there's more stress and higher expectations? That's true. Definitely. Yeah. How long were you in that role?

All up nine months. because I think we spent a couple of months traveling, backpacking around. And then unfortunately we had a couple of deaths in the family. My grandma passed away and then my husband's grandma passed away. So we came back a couple of times. And by then it was just, I guess we were like, you know, we've had our adventure. And I think it's time to come home. So, yeah, we headed home after that.

Okay. And did you have a bit of a break or you got started into job seeking straight away? And you ask because when I was in Scotland, I had, I remember this, I had an online interview for actually a couple of interviews in preparation for coming home. So thankfully I had a job lined up again in an older person's mental health team. So yeah, I was happy with that. I guess we thought it's good to just get home and just get started straight away. So yeah, that's what we did. That would have been a bit surreal. It was surreal.

Before COVID, before everyone was working from home. It was surreal. It was strange because I remember it being like maybe 2am or 1 a.m. at night because being in Scotland and I was thinking, oh, I hope I'm answering these questions appropriately. I was probably delirious. How much coffee if I had. Exactly. So yeah, that was an experience.

Well, you obviously made a good impression though. Yeah, yeah. No, it was good. I mean, it was something I'd done before as well, you know, working. as a student in an older person's mental health team. So yeah, it was good. Okay. And was that kind of what you'd remembered it being the type of role? Because you'd had that in your placement and then a little bit of an impatient so you can kind of see both sides of the coin. Yes. How is that for you? Yeah, yeah. No, it was pretty much exactly what I remembered it to be like as a student. I'm still

in working for that team now. So it's been 18 years now. So yeah, I enjoy my current role. as a senior social worker at a community older people's mental health team. Yeah. But yeah, it's been, it's been a good experience, you know. I guess it's been working in a multidisciplinary team. You have a lot of autonomy, which is what I really like. Being able to set up my day, you know, how I like it is definitely something that I need in a job. Yeah.

I saw that you did some extra training in older person's mental health as well. Yes, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, so I was lucky to be accepted in a scholarship for an applied mental health studies grad cert in older people's mental health. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. It was unfortunately during COVID, so, or actually just before and when COVID really hit, it was potentially a master's, but it was just too tough for me. You know, with the lockdowns and with, you know, looking after the kids and everything, it was, it just was just too much. So I'm just, glad I did a grad cert. It gave a good overview about what my role is, you know, working

older people's mental health team and, you know, the ideal care that we can provide, that ideal holistic care that we can provide to older people and how I guess we need to keep striving to meet that ideal goal, you know, to be able to provide holistic care, looking after all of the different domains of wellness for the older people that we work with. What do you see as the main differences between adult mental health and older people's mental health in the way that they need support and the way that you can support them, do you think? That's a good question. Definitely with older people, you need a really good understanding of the physical health, comorbidities that happens along with the mental health. So a lot of the time, older people have cardiac issues or blood pressure. gosh, there's a lot of stuff.

Cognitive impairment is one thing that's different to the adult population. So as part of our assessment, we do assess for cognitive impairment with like what's called a mini mental state examination. We also have to be really aware of something called delirium, which generally happens in the elderly. So that's something that we're always trying to rule out because that's an organic cause for symptoms that we might sometimes attribute to mental health issues. So that's definitely something that's different when working with older people compared to younger people. Delirium does cause

things like, for example, hallucinations, depression, anxiety, aggression, all these things that could possibly, you know, if we didn't rule that out, we might be trying to treat a mental illness, but really it's, you know, something else that's organic that's happening that we need to look at. I guess overall there's probably less drug and alcohol issues within the older population. However, you know, there is also a high risk of suicide with men, older men. So that's also another thing that we need to look at. Social isolation is a big factor with people, older people that I work with. And cost of living, you know, on an age pension.

I think it's tough for people, probably tough for everyone who's on the pension at the moment as well. Yeah, people with, you know, mild cognitive impairment to dementia, I guess the transition of some people not noticing their own decline, but the care are noticing and then the role of the husband or wife becoming a carer for their partner, a lot of life changes happening. So, yeah, there's a lot of differences, I guess, when working with older people.

But I really enjoy it. You know, the good thing is most of them really appreciate our team and what we do and how much they, I guess, welcome us into their lives and are happy for us to be involved. And they're usually happy for us to come and see them at home, refer them for services. Yeah, no, I really enjoy working with older people. I'm guessing you'd get a lot of people who are, as they age, they're still caring for a partner or for a child even,

whether that child needs 24-hour support or just a little bit of their hands-on support. And for them to suddenly be in a situation where they can't provide that support must be really difficult for them. Or perhaps the mental health crisis has come about because of stress related to their caregiving role. So it's so complex, really. Yeah, it is really complex. I guess we try to build a support network around the person to, you know, give them a bit more support, especially if there is a crisis, like who else can help or who else can you reach out to for support? You know, it's sad, but sometimes people don't really have anyone. So their support is, you know, someone from our team or, you know, we refer them for,

I guess, less clinical support from the support from the support. non-government organisations who can come and, you know, do the daily phone calls in the morning just to make sure they're okay, that kind of thing. And you'd have to have a really good understanding of what firstly services are available for them to be accessing, but also what their entitlements and rights are in terms of planning for the future, like guardianship staff, the power of attorney. It's really difficult from a legal standpoint. You need to know that family or that person very well and be able to be, I guess, a soundboard for what's perhaps best for that person within their context. So heightened emotions for a lot of them when having

to be faced with the reality of potentially not being able to look after themselves again. Very difficult, especially from, you know, the families. And I do often see that when they're going into age care facilities, that's the tough thing. When they don't feel that, you know, that I guess they feel like they can continue to live at home independently, but it's clear that they can't, with the amount of support that they have at the moment. So there's a lot of, yeah, tension within families at that time, difficult. Yeah. And I'm glad you mentioned the difference between cognitive decline and mental health issues

and is that cognitive issue, an acute issue? Is it something that is perhaps related to an infection like a UTI or something that can be treated as opposed to something that's indicative of something that's been developing and perhaps has come to the forefront a little bit that we need to address. Because I think often we jump to there's something wrong with that person, whereas we kind of need to take a step back and go, is that normal for that person? Are they just a bit quirky? Do they just like things to be done a certain way?

And that's okay too. So, yeah, the assessment skills that you developed really early on in your placement would have really come in handy with that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. And I'm still learning as well, Yasmin, you know, like I work in a multidisciplinary team and always learning from psychiatrists, O.T., psychologists, nurses, you know, it's really good working within that type of mixed professions team. We all learn from each other. And I'm learning from the clients all the time, you know, like, for example, there was, you know, one client who had a stroke. And generally after they have stroke, we think, oh, we better look out for depression. But no, unfortunately he had a mania. And so I've never heard of that before, post-stroke mania. So yeah, you know, always learning.

Definitely always learning. Yeah. We're very complex and squishy and a lot can happen. Definitely, definitely. Yeah. So if you're the senior social worker in that team, do you have a social worker above you who you can go to for supervision or support? I do have a social worker who's also a team leader of another team.

So I don't have a social worker above me on this team. My team leader is a psychologist, but I do, yes, I do have supervision with a social worker who's a team leader of a different mental health team. So I'm very fortunate to be able to, you know, access her once a month. Yeah. And she's probably worked the same role. So she has a good amount of experience. She has.

Dealing with what you're doing. Yes, definitely. She has a lot more experience than I have. She's been working for, I'm sure, over 40 years and has worked with older people, transcultural, and she's a manager of a therapy's team. Wow. And she's an art therapist. So, yeah, she's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, I'm really, really grateful that I have her. Incredible. And, like, has she been able to use her art therapy in the clinical? She does, yeah. Yeah, no, she does. So she's linked with acute, inpatient. psychiatric unit and I'm sure they run art therapy groups for the in patients during the week. So yeah, no, no, she gets to use her skills, which is great. Yeah. Nice. I did say that you've got

work outside of your main role. Did you want to talk to that at all? Yeah, yeah. So I've been wanting to become an accredited mental health social worker for years probably and I just, it was such a long process. I thought, oh, you know, it was never the right time. Last year, I thought, you know what, I just need to give myself a chance and apply and went through the process. And yeah, finally it was approved. When did I get accredited? I think it was like October last year. And I was really thankful that a fellow accredited mental health social worker asked me to join his practice. So yeah, I've just been really trying to get my head around, I guess, having a business because I have never had that experience before.

Like no one in my family's ever had their own business. So it's a really steep learning curve, you know, getting an ABN, trying to figure out Medicare and anyway. So, yeah, I've slowly put together my own business. And yeah, now I have a few clients, which is nice. Still learning a lot, like trying to figure out where do you get referrals from, trying to, yeah, just figure out the whole, it's just a whole new world for me. But I'm really enjoying it. It's actually nice.

I guess being in my other role for 19 years, you know, I know what I'm doing. It's something that I'm used to, I'm comfortable, but to push myself, I guess, take a risk, push myself out of a comfort zone has been really good experience. It was nerve-wracking, but I actually like it. It's cool. It's a challenge. And I like, you know, I like to, I guess, find a challenge, find a goal and then try and work towards it. So, yeah. Yeah, no, it's been really good.

Are you supporting mostly older people in that? Yeah, look, I've, because I've also had some experience working with adults. I've kind of left it general at the moment just because I've just started. but so it's called the practice counselling the offices in pimble i see people face to face as well as via telehealth and yeah i'll see adults to older people for yeah therapy i've done some cognitive behavioral therapy training some acceptance and commitment therapy training and some gotman therapy training for couples counseling i'm only on level one so i'd really like to get more experienced in that definitely something I'm interested in but it's just a matter of timing

because I'm still working part-time and yet life and family and everything so as I get time I'll definitely get to more training I don't know how you find the time just to do those two things must be a mom and a wife it's a lot it is a lot but no you know what it's actually fun it is fun at the moment we'll see how it goes yesman it's a lot it's a lot it's a lot it's a lot but no you know what it's actually fun at the moment we'll see how it goes, Yasmin. It's only early days. How do you find that balance at the moment? You know, I've learnt that I need to look after myself because it is quite a difficult. Being a social worker and working mental health, you know, it really can drain you because you're giving a lot of yourself. And then you do have kids. So then you're also giving a lot of yourself,

your husband, but I've learned that if I don't look after myself and my own mental health, I can't keep looking after, you know, my family. So I do things that I enjoy and that, I guess, fill my cup. So I've started, I'm a runner, recreational runner. So, and I really enjoy that. Like, I never thought I would be, but it's, you know, it's time for me. It's me out in nature, you know, jogging on the streets with only my thoughts or music that I like. So I have a few rituals twice, three times a week just to make sure that I'm looking after myself. And, you know, it's something that I also talk with the people I provide therapy to as well because we all kept burnt out, you know.

We all do. Life is hectic, you know, we're working. We've got lots of responsibilities. But if we don't look after ourselves, we can't keep providing that quality care or love to people that you need to. So you need to love yourself first. That's definitely something that I highly recommend

and encourage everyone to do. You said earlier that you felt close to burnout in that early role. Is there an element of change in terms of how you think you know that you'll be burning out in this role or are they triggers or do you feel like that's completely changed over time and you just have to be super aware of it how do you notice that you need that time out? I think because I have experienced burnout, things that I notice with myself are less patience, especially with my family. I guess going to work and just not and you know getting that feeling like, oh, I can't be bothered, you know. That's not very good if you're a social work.

You can't really be like that when you're working with clients who don't deserve that. You know, they deserve to be treated, you know, with respect. And I like to build a good therapeutic relationship with all my clients. So, you know, I don't want to go out there and I never want anyone to feel like, oh, she doesn't want to be here. So that's something that I need to look for. I also only work part-time in my current role now. They have been at times where I've worked full-time.

and now I've dropped back to part-time to fit in everything, family, you know, and also open up this opportunity to work for myself. So yeah, I guess when I notice that I am tired a lot, and even if I am tired, I can't sleep. That's something that's a sign because usually I sleep pretty easily. When I start ruminating about certain things, that's also a sign. I get my own therapy as well. I think that's really important as a therapist to have your own therapy because, you know, we all, we're human. We all have things that we need to work towards or work on. So yeah, I guess I've learned the hard way about not looking after yourself and how that impacts on yourself and your family. And I don't want that to happen again. So that's always at the forefront of

my mind. Yeah. I saw on your practice website, no weight list. And that kind of piqued my interest because I thought, you've got this part-time work in the mental health team. You've got the part-time work in the practice. How do you say no? How do you sort of draw a line, a boundary or a line in the sand and say, we're not going to accept any new people or we will have a wait list? Does that just continue to add up? I imagine as the practice develops, you might have to put some boundaries around that. That is true. That is true. At the moment, there's no wait list because, you know, I'm just starting and I do have availability. Yeah, look, I think I would have to definitely. If I don't have the time or I do feel like it's overwhelming, I would definitely

have to probably say, okay, I can only see four people a day or three people a day or whatever the number is to look after myself. But I guess I will definitely cross that bridge when I come to it. But at the moment it's managed. At the moment, it's okay. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Is there an element of just thinking back to when you were first starting in psychology and I was the same. I thought that I was going to move into psychology and then pivoted pretty quickly when stats came along. In mental health and in community, especially, there's probably a need for research even if you're not calling it research. So do you feel like in any way that

was still kind of helpful because it gave you a bit of a grounding in what to be looking for how to measure the work that you're doing in its effectiveness. Look, that is true. I think in my current role in the community mental health team, we have done a few, like what they call quality improvement type projects, which is, I guess, their research that's done with the population that we're working with. And yeah, it has been useful. I think the last one we're working on looking at assessing fire risk in all of our clients,

homes as part of the assessment process and how that's helped. There was a few incidences where, you know, unfortunately, clients had lost their lives because of fires in their home. So we were trying to figure out what we can do to try and help with that, with our clientele and, you know, broadly with people with mental health issues that see our organisation, how we could try and prevent those deaths. So that was one thing that our team had worked on. I'm sure there's a lot more, but to be honest, there's not much time to do that. Yeah, it's busy otherwise. It was a good experience to do psychology, but I do feel that I like social work in the way that it's more, for me,

it seems like it's more if you're working with a person on an equal level. It's not diagnostic, what can be, I guess, but from what we're taught, it's more you're walking side by side with the person. What do you love most about the work you're doing? It sounds like there are many things that keep you doing what you're doing. Yeah, I really am grateful for the clients that I get to meet. You know, the people I get to meet, the people I get to work with, the people that, you know, they open up their home for me to come and see them.

And even on discharge, you know, they're very grateful for the help that I've provided. It was sadly one of my clients passed away very quickly with cancer, but I did go and see her just to give her my respects and say goodbye. I mean, it was such a nice experience because she said to me, you know, you've helped me so much. I really appreciate it. And I thought, wow, this is why I do this job, you know. It really does make a difference in other people's lives.

And I feel privileged to be able to do that. And I like working with older people. Really, I like working with anyone who is happy to work with me. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, no, I'm actually really grateful that I fell into the social work role and I kind of fell into mental health. Just enjoy doing what I do.

Yeah. And you know what? I'm always looking at myself as well and seeing what I can learn and how I can improve my life, how I can improve my kids' lives, my husbands, my parents, you know, like we're all human and we can all go through these things and it's just nice that I can give people that support if they need it really yeah yeah how long do you get to work with your clients on average with my role at the community mental health team yeah usually like an hour every

couple of weeks and then we would usually have them for about three to six months some clients even longer for years depending on how much help they need. There are some clients who, you know, legally we have to keep them case managed because of something called a community treatment order and we do have to enforce medication. So, you know, we do have them for many years sometimes. But because I guess our team isn't as busy as other community mental health teams, we can provide the clients with more time with our visits. It's not just, you know, quick, what medication you're having and go.

It's like sit down, sometimes have a cuppa, have a chat, you know, do the assessment and then go and then calling them, you know, every week just to see how things are going. So, yeah, we can spend a decent amount of time with our clients, which is good. And see changes that happen over that time with them and their families. You get to know them so well. Yeah, definitely, definitely. It's bittersweet when you discharge them because you're like, oh, it's so good you're doing well, but it means that I don't need to see you again.

But it is good. It's rewarding anyway, yeah. Someone asked me recently what the hardest part of my job was and I said it was handing them over. Yeah. You know, you do, you get to know them so well in that. I mean, yours is kind of subacute. It's not really immediate emergency, but still they're needing. active treatment. It's still an element of early on in a recovery process and then yeah,

you're happy for them that they've done well. But that you just think, oh, I won't have the same routine and contact and you get really stuck and setting your ways and into a groove. And it's hard to break that sometimes. Yeah, yeah, definitely. It'll be good to see, as I said, I've only just started my private practice, but it'll be, I think, similar probably, I guess, similar feelings. when I don't need to see a client there again. But, you know, it's for good reason. With the community treatment orders, what does enforcement look like from a social work lens? If someone isn't adhering to, I guess, what the court has decided is best for them. Yeah. I'm using air quotes here. No, that's okay. How do you support them through that process?

Because there's probably a really good reason that they're not able to comply. Yeah. This is the part of the role of the. role that I find the most challenging because usually I like to work with someone in their treatment and I guess it's always informing them about why they're supposed to be on the injection. Usually it's an injection because, you know, we can call the GP make sure that they've had their injection, make sure that they've had their antipsychotic. I usually try and give them a lot of education about, you know, what happened prior to them needing usually to go into hospital for an acute inpatient admission and then explaining that that's the

reason why we don't want you to go back to hospital. We want you to stay well and be able to live in the community, which is why you need to have the injection. It's not easy. To be honest, it's not easy. And a lot of the time, it is the least restrictive care because you know that if they do stop taking their injection just from history, that they will end up relapsing and having to go back to hospital. So it's working with them to try to, I guess, gain some insight, but as well as trying to support the family to try and support the client to understand why they're having their injection. I guess as a social worker on the team, I still do have to write psychosocial reports, you know, recommending what the team thinks should happen. And I do always let the person know,

look, this is what we're recommending and these are the reasons. So if you'd, like to come, and I always encourage them to come to the tribunal hearing, if you'd like to come or if you'd like to bring, you know, legal aid, you're more than welcome. I can help you with that process just so they are able to express their own opinions, their own views. And then it's up to the tribunal to make that decision. It's not up to me. So it's around that providing education, but also offering those wraparound supports to make the process a little bit easier. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, empathising with them because I know it's not what they want. Just going over to their house and, you know, just seeing how they're going and not always

focusing on the medication, I think also helps. But as I said, it is challenging. It's not a nice part of the role, but I guess, you know, it needs to be done. So, yeah, that's probably the best way that I deal with my clients on community treatment orders. Yeah. Yeah. Given that you've had an extensive amount of time and experience in this area, What changes have you seen or maybe what would you like to see bringing your experience from the UK as well?

It would be great if there were more services that would be able to be put into place to keep people at home for longer. There are care packages available and they are access to the aged care assessment team and my aged care. I don't work with them as in I don't work for them but I do know of them and I do make referrals and stuff like that. but I do find if there was more hours of care provided to people at home, there'll be less need for them to go into aged care facilities and they'd still be able to access the people around them, like neighbours and their local support system. I think it is quite challenging for people to be uprooted

and move to an age care facility, you know, especially at that time of life. I think it's really tough and detrimental to people's mental health. and physical health because they're not able to do as much as they used to do at home. But I also understand that, you know, some people need to go to age care facilities for the care that they need and that they're not able to receive at home. So, but I must say, you know, if we could provide 30 hours of care like they did in the UK for people, that would be great.

Like that would be beneficial. And make it free. That's right. That's right. That would be great. That would be great. Yeah. That'd be probably the biggest thing.

And also I've heard, even though someone's been assessed for a care package, it doesn't mean they can access services yet. So there are lots of service providers, but they're full. So if there's more accessible support, it will be better as well. It's just a long waiting period. And then even after assessment, again, it can be a long waiting period for different services. I wonder whether the creation of the NDIA, and the influx of service providers that have opened up

might spill a little bit into aged care. That's just my Pollyanna approach to things and trying to find a silver lining. But hopefully as more and more service providers come on board, get their registration or accreditation, whatever they need to do to get across the line with NDIS. Hopefully that will then translate easily to age care systems. Yeah, that'd be great.

That'd be great. I don't know too much about NDIS, but it does sound like there's a lot of movement happening in that area. I think more than my aged care, but no, that'd be great if there was more services for the older population, definitely. Yeah. I know that the kids are still young. You want to stay put, develop the private practice, but have you ever toyed with the idea

of working overseas again? No. I haven't actually. I think it's probably something that's been done already and I'm happy just staying in Sydney now, you know, working on the private practice and I guess see where that takes me as well. Yeah. As you said, you had your adventure, but see where the wind takes you, I guess. That's been the way that things have happened.

You've fallen into something and thankfully loved it and it's just gone from there. So who knows? Yeah, definitely. Would you do any further study? It sounds like you're very much a lifelong learner. Yeah, no, definitely. I, as I said, I've only completed level one, Godman. training. So there's three levels that I would like to definitely work on. Couples counselling is

something that I haven't had formal training in my career. So that's definitely something I'd like to explore. You know, EMDR is something that I'm interested in as well and I haven't had any training in that. There's a, you know, when I first got accredited as a mental health social worker, I started looking at so many opportunities for training and I thought, you know what, Jamie, you just need to pick a certain few and then don't get too overwhelmed. So I think, you know, I'll focus on possibly Gottman at the moment. And then I mean, I'm still doing the usual, like the CBT and stuff like that, that training. But I think, yeah, maybe EMDR in the future.

We'll see. Something like that. EMDR, EFT tapping sounds interesting as well. Yeah, yeah. Do you listen to many other podcasts? I was listening to social worker in private practice by Tammy Roach because she was talking about what it's like to start a practice and what it's like when he first started and, you know, what happens.

And I really found that interesting. She's a Canadian and Australian accredited mental social worker. I think she's based in Queensland. But yeah, I really really appreciated listening to her podcast. especially as I was going through my accreditation process and, you know, trying to figure out, do I really want to work in private practice? What does it mean? Yes, I found that was for the good podcast. I was just thinking I'd shout out Esther Perel's podcast. Where Should We Begin? She actually interviewed Gottman for one of the, or maybe two of the episodes. It might have been a two-parter.

That was really interesting as well. Thank you. I think I follow her on my LinkedIn account. That's good. I'll look into that. Thank you. Yeah, most of her podcasts are very short, sharp, like a one-hour therapy session with someone that she doesn't know. So it's kind of like just a one-shot of people can write to her and say, I've got this issue. I'm keen to talk about it. And if she feels as though it's something that can be discussed quite easily in one session, she records it for the podcast. So that's really interesting. Oh, okay. I'll have a look at that.

Thanks for the suggestion. Are there any other resources that you'd recommend people check out, even if it's just some of the training that you've done? Yeah, yeah. I've been really into Dr. Russ Harris at the moment, just reading some of his act books. So I was looking at, I think it's called Act Made Simple, as well as the happiness trap,

which I find really resonates with me. So I recommend that. I use the cognitive behavioral therapy by Judith Beck. I think it's the third edition for me in my CBT practice. And it's probably because, you know, it's quite directive and, you know, it's quite explicit with the different assessment stages and then therapy stages and stuff like that. So that's good for people starting out with CBT. I would recommend that.

I would also, I would recommend definitely the Gottman therapy training. As I said, I completed level one. I think it was late, no, early this year, sorry. And yeah, it's all evidence-based and it makes working with couples seem more structured and easier. Because, you know, when you don't have experience working with couples, it can be quite overwhelming when you have two people in the room, especially when the issues are quite long-term, long-term issues that keep coming. back and, you know, they're not being dealt with properly. I think with the Gottman therapy, it's a very structured, not simple approach because I'm still trying to get my head around it,

but a very structured way of working with couples and helping the couples to build a stronger relationship by dealing with those longstanding issues that just keep coming back, I guess. But yeah, I found that really good for myself, even in my own relationship and other relationships, and other relationships, just looking at other people's relationships and going, oh, yeah, I noticed that as well. Like, it's really interesting. So, yeah, would recommend that, definitely. And also, I joined the Mental Health Academy for different training sessions for, I think

that's open for any social worker, psychologist, counsellor, but that's definitely good, especially when, you know, it touches on so many different topics, children, adults, older people, all different types of therapies. so I find that useful as well. Someone mentioned that to me. I think it's from memory, like a subscription membership type thing where you sign up

and then you have access to the trainings. Yeah, yeah, definitely. There's like hundreds of trainings and yeah, whatever you're interested in, I'm sure you'll find something in there for you. Like I recently did one on grief, grief and loss. Yeah, there's lots of different stuff with that, yeah.

Amazing. I'll find all those links and I'll pop them in the show notes. But before we finish up, Jamie, is there anything else that you wanted to talk about or mention to do with your experience in social work? No, I think if you're interested in social work, go for it because, you know, as you'll see with the different people that you interview, Yasmin, it's such a broad profession that you could really go into anything, anything you're interested in. And there's opportunities as well. So, you know, I think there's lots of credentialing that's happening through the ASW now. So there's lots of different opportunities for people working in all different sectors who are social workers. So yeah, go for it. That's what I'd say.

Yeah. I think it's so interesting, even from day one, you kind of really got a chance to understand the different types of vulnerable people and the services that could support them. So that quick introduction to social work in Australia helped develop your further understanding of how things are system-wise. is obviously slightly different in the UK, but just the types of things that you are going to be dealing with and the different professions that can support a mental health crisis or the need for someone's ongoing support. You mentioned the medical conditions, so you learn a lot about the types of medical conditions

that can create these mental health issues and developing your senior role, I guess, within older person's mental health setting. You got some really great experience working overseas and traveling, doing the backpacking things, So definitely if anyone's interested and wants to take advantage of those visa types, definitely look into it. Reach out to Kristen, definitely if you're looking for UK type stuff. But that's such a great opportunity so early on to get that experience.

And now you've moved into private practice and you've developed more experience. You're building on your existing experience. You've got more training that you want to be doing and finding balance within all of that. And you said that's around finding what makes you feel good outside of work. So you've got your rituals, your exercise, the things that help you disconnect a bit from the work that you're doing and help you switch off probably mentally as much as anything. Yeah. And you're so grateful for the connections that you've made over the years, both staff members and clients just being able to be welcomed into someone's home and someone's life and being able to work with their formal and then. their informal networks to support their healthy aging, but also their adherence to these programs

that can sometimes be a little bit strict in terms of how they're operated and how the person needs to fit into a mold. So yeah, it's good to see the social work lens throughout all of that and what you're saying and the fact that you are able to, even though yes, there are people in your team who are from different professions, you're able to make it a social work role, which is really important. And now you're developing your private practice further and continuing that learning. So really looking forward to where that takes you

and following your journey. And yeah, hopefully we can stay in touch. That'll be wonderful. Thank you. It's the next adventure. Yes, absolutely. Apart from, you know, parenthood and everything that cuts with teenage children.

Well, that is true. Definitely. Yeah, thank you again so much, Jamie, for taking the time. I've loved learning about it. Thank you, Yasmin. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Jamie, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm. slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlightpodcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.

Please also let me know if there are is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Steph, an accredited mental health social worker who works in private practice at clarity therapy in Sydney. He has a background in child protection and out-of-home care and utilizes an integrated therapeutic approach, drawing on evidence-based modalities, as well as social work theory, aiming for a holistic approach to improving mental health. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe. to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.