Social Work Spotlight - Episode 111: Thanh

Episode Date: June 7, 2024

In this episode I speak with Thanh, an accredited mental health social worker with intensive experience working with people who have a history of complex trauma and addiction. She has recently developed her own private practice and is passionate about addressing stigma and improving access and engagement in mental health services for Vietnamese and Asian populations more generally.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-scoreIn an Unspoken Voice by Peter A. Levine - https://www.penguin.com.au/books/in-an-unspoken-voice-9781556439438Thanh’s business ‘Embracing Us’ - https://embracingus.com.au/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13jsH53ibRd7txrPj_DZasJkt5Am2mQFuFBOyteaBxB0/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession in each episode.

I'm your host, Jasmine Lupus, and today's guest is Tain, an accredited mental health social worker who is fluent in English and Vietnamese, and has intensive experience working with people who have a history of complex trauma and addiction. She is committed to advancing her skills in EMDR and understands that connection and rapport are fundamental for the therapeutic change to happen in her sessions. She is passionate in helping trauma survivors to understand their needs and being able to learn assertive communication skills in relationships. Thank you so much time for meeting with me today. I'm really excited to have a chat with you about your experience in social work so far. Thank you, Jessamine, for inviting me.

I'm glad to be here. Yeah, I'd love to know firstly when you got started as a social worker and what brought you to the profession. So, you know, it came back to very early on. I came here as an international student when I was 17. Obviously, there were a lot of different ways for me to do the immigration, but social work was my choice because when I was a kid, I was curious about, you know, people and wondering if I could help people in the future when I grew up.

So I think that social work was like a perfect choice in the migration list, you know. So I did came here for the immigration purpose, but then found out. out social work. I'm like, yes, I'm going to give that a try. And then four years in the degree, I had the first placement in an alcohol and drug counseling agency. They dealt with that. And I'm like, yes, this is the right way for me to do. You know, this is the right pathway. So yeah, so I finished, you know, four year degree of social work. And then now I'm still a social worker. And usually that's the way is people figure out that the placement experience is what helps them solidify this is really what I want to do or maybe I kind of want to detour into a

different part of or a different profession completely not even a different part of social work but it sounds as though drug and alcohol was really fascinating and a good fit for you yeah first I wasn't sure because you know I did have a bit of stigma with alcohol and drugs when I was younger you know but then when I had the placement and I truly understood about you know trauma alcohol and drugs and then had a chance to sit with people in the counselling room, you know, to see how they got transformed. That is amazing. Yeah. And did you have good mentors at the time, good people who helped guide you? I did. Very lucky. I did. You know, I couldn't have been able to do it without them, you know, so I do have two

great mentors there. And I think that without them, I wouldn't be here. Yeah. That's incredible. And did you find it difficult, I mean, coming to a new country, going straight into study how was that transition for you it was it was quite hard at first you know coming here you know I do I do have family around here but I'm not very close to them I wasn't close to them and then you know when I came yes it was all about studying and how can I survive you know in a new country so I did a full-time study degree and then during that time I also worked part-time so I didn't have a lot of social life back then it's all about working studying making it through So it wasn't easy, but you know, I made it, I made it.

You know, when I'm looking back, I'm like, yes, I made it. So I'm very proud. And obviously it wasn't easy for me and for other international student who is following this sort of pathway, you know, studying, working. Then eventually we made it. Yeah. I feel like almost if you can do that, you can do anything, right? I felt so. But one of the hardest thing for me is when I first came here, it's all about the Australian culture.

because, you know, I'm Vietnamese, I came here when I was 17, English is my second language. So it's all about learning English, getting to know Australian culture and how I can make friends and, you know, socialized with Australian people because for me, at first, I had no clue. But then I think after 14 years of living here, you know, I had a good understanding about, you know, how things are working, you know, in Australia now. And, yeah, I'm working with the mainstream culture, a lot of Aussie people. I'm working with them in my private practice, in my counselling practice. How did you end up in Victoria?

Is that because you had family there? How did you decide? Yeah, I had my family here. And then I came here and I did my degree with RMIT uni. Yeah. What has led then to this point in your career? Coming from the placement where you had the drug and alcohol experience, did you then slide into a drug and alcohol role or did you do something different out of the uni?

So I try different things, you know, so obviously the first counseling place. placement in alcohol and drugs, which I loved it. And then the second placement was in, I think, foster care. And I found that, you know, case management wasn't for me. And I was more into counseling and one-on-one, you know, therapeutic connection with people more. Then after the graduation, I came back to alcohol and drugs and then works there for about two years and a half and truly understand that, you know, the underneath of alcohol and drop, which is trauma. There's a big trauma there. So I'm like, okay. So if I always work with alcohol, or when drugs alone, I'm just, you know, scratching the surface. So if I can truly understand trauma,

then hopefully I can, you know, really delve deep into the issues and help clients from there. So I went to do more training about trauma and the nervous system. And I did EMDR. And given that there is so much information out there on trauma, which is a good thing now, it's something that we're becoming more. I agree, I agree. How did you know where to start even? So it was for me at first, you know, personally it was for me at first. I had a lot of trauma in childhood. So very funny, you know, one of my colleagues, they suggest to me that, I think that, you know, you should look into this because it seems like, you know,

you did have a bit of childhood trauma in the past. So he suggested that, you know, I think that you should go and try EMDR, see how you go. First, I was a little bit reluctant because I'm like, no, I'm fine. You know, I'm having a good job, full-time career. I'm doing good. But I did take some time to think about what he said to me. And then I was just opened and experiment. And then I did EMDR on myself.

Obviously, I had an EMDR therapist. I did that on myself and found out that, you know, yes, I did have trauma. I had a lot of trauma. And it was such a blessing to see how my body was able to release some of the trauma stuff and go through a big integration process. How do you process that alongside doing your work? That must be challenging. It was very challenging.

So I think the first time I did process that was during the COVID. Yeah, I think in 2020 when the whole, I think that, you know, when Victoria was in lockdown. So, yes, I worked at home. And then if I remember correctly, you know, once a week, I would go and see a therapist. Obviously, it wasn't easy. But usually I choose a Friday afternoon appointment that I have. sort of weekend to process my trauma and have a bit of time for myself. So usually I do a Friday afternoon and it doesn't impact my work. It didn't impact my work, you know. So I try to just sort of

avoiding, you know, the work, the working hours or the working days. And that would force you to finish on time on a Friday afternoon as well. Yeah, yes. Usually I do have like 3 p.m. appointment and then I, I ask well, like, you know, I'm going to have an appointment, medical appointment, and then they agree with that. And then, yeah, that's how I did my trauma work during the COVID time. Yeah. How did you then make the decision to start your own practice and go out on your own? To be honest, I'm still, you know, subcontracting and I'm a part-time employee, but mainly I'm working with a lot of private clients who are using MedicareMed,

so mental health care plan, work safe, and other funding. Private practice was just something that I started in 2022, and I'm slowly. building it up. My concentration is split between, you know, part-time work of subcontracting and my own private practice, so I don't expect a huge growth in my private practice right now. But my focus in my private practice is a lot of psycho education from my Vietnamese community and trauma and for them to truly understand about, you know, mental health, other symptoms of mental health in their everyday life and the impact of intergenerational trauma in my Vietnamese community because I could see there has been a lot of growth in terms of them having an

insight about healing, trauma, but then I just don't see that, you know, they're having a proper psycho education. So this is the current focus that I'm trying to make it happen in my Vietnamese community, which is to do a lot of psycho education through social media, TikTok, Instagram, and in the future I'm going to have some podcast too. Oh, that's exciting. You have to let me know when it's ready and I can promote it. Yeah, thank you.

But usually just for my Viet community. There's a lot of Vietnamese. I speak in Vietnamese. When I do social media, so mainly it's about Vietnamese. And just psychoeducation, give them some tips to understand stress, burnout, anxiety, symptoms of trauma, things like that in their life. And would it be pitched out professionals or would it be pitched at the clients more so? More like clients, you know, just the general.

population, yeah. Because I do have Vietnamese clients as well that I support in my work, so, you know, there's no harm in sharing that. Definitely, yeah, yeah. Do you think that that stigma that you held early on coming into mental health work, is that consistent with what you're seeing in the Asian community or Vietnamese more specifically? Yes, stigma is still there. The stigma about mental health, about, you know, really understand trauma is still there. I don't want to say this just to have a judgment

towards my beard community, but to be honest, I feel like, this is what I feel like. Working with the Aussie mainstream culture is so much easier than the Vietnamese culture

because usually typical Asians they expect a quick result in one or two sessions. Yeah? So they're like, yes, this is my problem. How can you help me?

Yeah. So it does take me sometimes to really explain, you know, that it takes time for me to understand. you, I can't, I don't have an answer for you right now if I don't understand about, you know, what happens, you know, other areas of your life, your childhood, your family.

You know, but it's typical if they feel like, you know, first session, they don't see any result. Like, now, I'm not doing this anymore. And the emotional stuff is like a big no for them. So it's a lot of big defense mechanism to not going there, to not go to the vulnerability part. Yeah. Because EMDR takes a lot of time. any of these approaches take a lot of time. So how do you help support or convince them that this is worth the effort? So I usually take it take some time and I'd really make it very clear to them

that, you know, if you are looking for a quick answer, I will not be able to help you with that. But here's what I can do for you, you know. So I do give them some options and I make it very clear about my role and how I can help them at the beginning. And it's always that, you know, if you just want a quick fix, sorry, I can't, I can't really do it for you. you. I can provide some strategies and some solutions, but I don't know if in the future, the triggers or the memory will come back or if in the future something may come back and the symptoms may come back for you again. I don't know. Do you know of many other, maybe just in Victoria, of many other therapists, social workers who are Vietnamese speaking?

Do you feel like there's a real corner of the market there or do you feel as though your community is building? There are a few Vietnamese therapists here. already. I don't have a very close connection with them just yet. Like my previous mentor in my placement is actually Vietnamese and I learned a lot from her. I learned a lot from her and you know when I reach out to social media and stuff I consider other Asian Vietnamese therapists already, you know, doing this sort of work. So, you know, it's not that far anymore. You know, we are having more Vietnamese or more Asian therapists that are working in this field to help, you know, Vietnamese and Asian community with their mental health.

And then that involves building quite a good network of people around you to be able to say, if I'm not the right person, then there's someone here that could potentially help you. Yes, that's right. So given that you have to divide your time over the contracting and the private work, how do you make sure that you've kind of set some good boundaries around and limitations? I'm still learning, to be honest, but usually I'm a type of person that's going to have the energy. And when I feel like there is a gut feeling about something, I will do it. So, you know, I can't give you a very specific answer, you know.

It's all about learning as I go, you know, and see how my energy is going throughout, you know, could be the days or the months. Like, for example, for the last six months, I really focused a lot on the social media stuff for my own private practice. But before that, it was all about, you know, learning more about clinical skills, getting to know the market, getting to know the system. And to be honest, my attention has been divided quite a lot between, you know, subcontracting part-time work and my own private practice.

So I'm still learning as I go. And I can't really give a, you know, a very specific answer about this, but I'm still learning. But whenever I feel like, yes, it's time to do something, I will do it. And I will do it very hard. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you're branching out a bit more into social media, though,

and it provides a bit of an opportunity to one of your approaches is storytelling and being able to inform the community through different methods. Have you gotten much feedback or interaction through that medium? Yes. So the feedback has been positive. I've got a lot of messages. I've got a lot of good comments and, you know, followers already. So I think it's been about nearly two months and it has reached nearly 1,000 followers on TikTok and I'm building up on my Instagram. So obviously, you know, people are having interest in the content and the information that I'm providing. And I'm very glad that, you know, that they are learning and they are paying attention to

this sort of stuff. Yeah. Do you feel pressure from a cultural perspective, maybe to step outside the scope of your work or to blow those boundaries at all? I wonder if that gets tricky for you. It does happen, you know, but I made it very clear with the beginning because at this stage I'm still focusing on my social media. So if they ask me too many questions, obviously I will not be able to, you know,

give them too many answers. So I do refer them out. I do look at, you know, some Vietnamese, you know, service in Vietnam to refer them to, you know, to the specific places that can meet the needs. However, there is only so much that I can do and I make it very, clear to them that there is only so much that I can do and I'm very busy with all of the work that I'm doing. Yeah, so usually, you know, I will have a chat with some sort of things I can do and then refer them out. If, you know, if they couldn't really be a good fit for me, I would

refer the mouth straight away and give them a lot of resources, information, you know, the things that they can practice. What does social work look like in Vietnam? I'm just curious as to how differs between countries. Yeah, you know, when they ask me about the title, you know, I make it very clear to them that I'm a social worker. I'm not a psychologist. I call myself a therapist also, you know, in Vietnamese, but I make it very clear that I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist, I can prescribe medication. Here's what I can do for them. So it's a lot about explanation about my work and my experience and how I can help them and what I can't do for them and my limitation. So that's all that I can do. But I think,

that you know it does take some time for them to understand my background and what's all the things I can do for them you know in my work does the role change though like do you know much about the profession in Vietnam as it is now well I started looking into that I started looking into that I could see that you know it is growing you know the the psychology counseling therapy are growing in Vietnam and and I find that great but also part of that is also we have a lot lot of life coach that they don't have proper education and I'm a little bit concerned when that is happening because because of my concerns I'm like okay if that happened then I do have to step out to make a big difference because I don't want people to be told the wrong information.

That's one of the big motivation for me to actually step out to do this sort of you know platform on social media because I'm because I was like people do deserve the right type of information. People do research information, you know, education about, you know, mental health, trauma, what is the therapeutic intervention for them rather than just, you know, being blinded by the false information of, you know, I don't know, life coach that they don't have proper education. Don't get me wrong, you know, there's a lot of life coach there when I read their content. They are amazing, you know, they have, they done a lot of research. They have done a lot of study, which I have no, I'm not a guest, but there are life coach out there in the Vietnamese community when I look through,

you know, their content, and I was like, this is bullshit. You know, you can't, you can't talk to your clients like this, you know? And they can be very convincing, I can imagine. I'm very convincing. But, you know, the ethics in me don't allow that. I'm like, now, this is not the way that you work with your clients, you know, you don't shame clients. Because that's the tactic that they use, you know, when people come to them and the message that they sent out is very shaming and very stigmatized. Ooh. With the clients, I'm like, now, this is not how things should work. So it's one of the big reason why that I do have to step out and hopefully doing something good for my community, even though before that I was not confident at all. It took me probably two years to decide

that it's time for me to do these things, to really step out to do a social media, to show my face. I did have a bit of imposter syndrome myself that I'm not good enough, you know, what people think about me, things like that. Typical social work. people of social worker yeah so it took it took me quite some time for me to decide yeah it is a time for me I do have to make this happen to give people the right information and education and given you have to make such a distinction about what your role is and how you can support what do you see as the difference then in a therapeutic role between a psychologist and someone who's had social work background you know so I make usually I make it very clear to them that you know I can't diagnose

I can do a lot of diagnosis with a lot of complex mental health issues. For example, I can't diagnose ADHD and autism. What I can do for them is I can work with trauma. So a lot of trauma stuff, anxiety, depression. So it's just losing out all the things I can do for them and what I can't do. Yeah, and that's all that I can do. If I can't do it, I refer them straight away. Yeah.

And what do you think it is about social work training? What is it about your skill set, do you think, or your training, that is really helpful in those situations. The thing I like about social work is, you know, advocacy and empowerment for the clients and give people choices. One of the reasons I didn't do psychology at the beginning is because there's a part in me don't agree with methodology. I find two black and white from me at the beginning.

So that's why that social work was a benefit for me. That's the feeling that I got at the beginning. I understand that, you know, it's just difference between, you know, two fields, yeah. But there is something when I started doing psychology, I'm like, now, this doesn't feel great. So that's why I chose social workers because of the human connection. You know, it's the holistic way that we are working with the clients, the empowerment, the advocacy, giving people choices, you know, looking at the system and how the system impacting the clients, which is great.

Yeah, absolutely. What do you like most about the work you're doing? Is it the balance that you get to have? Is it the, you know, being able to run your own timetable, or is it just purely the therapeutic work, or is it kind of everything? Almost everything. I love the therapeutic connection. I love to know that I'm making change, you know, to someone's life.

And especially when they come back and they report, you know, hi, you know, I've done this. I've done something differently in my life right now. People around me notice I'm different. And, you know, in just a moment when I sit with the clients and I really, truly see who they are in that sort of moment. It just made me full of love with the work. I got to experience a lot of different presentation, you know, so trauma, accident, chronic pain, alcohol and drugs, and other type of presentation, which is very interesting. You know, eating disorder and a bit of chronic pain as well, a lot of sexual or so and domestic

balance. I've done a lot of that. So I really enjoy learning and having different experience with, you know, different types of presentation and really understand how I can really help them in that sort of situation. We were talking offline before starting recording about how in pretty much every role you'll get a little flavor of everything like child protection or family violence or drug and alcohol. So it's so important to have those foundations and that, you know, it doesn't need to be current working knowledge but just an understanding of what people are dealing with day-to-day.

Yeah. Some people might say I never want to work in domestic violence. or I never want to work in child protection or I never want to work in disability like I do. And I just think, well, that's the human condition. Unfortunately, it happens regardless of whether you're there or not. But like you've done, find your niche, find what you're interested in, find what you're passionate about. And you can develop those skills as you go and obviously doing training like you're doing. You're working really hard in developing that framework and the experience with those models.

But yeah, I think it just points to the diverse. of the practice, I guess. I know, I know. Yeah. Yeah. What support do you require then, I'm just thinking, reflecting on your own trauma and then how you might potentially have lots of vicarious trauma through the work you're doing and the stories you hear.

That must be really hard. And how do you work through that? So the support, there's a lot of self-care, to be honest. Sometimes, you know, I don't do enough self-care for myself, even though that I keep telling my clients that. You know, it's a lot of self-care. And really, I think that intentional self-care that I do have to block out sometimes in a way to know that this is the time for me. And I will not book anyone in or I will not catch up with a friend during this time.

And also, you know, because my self-case, you know, I enjoy doing things by myself, you know, doing, you know, cooking, exercising. Even it's just, you know, resting, not doing much. That's my self-care. So I'm not a big catch-up person. you know, usually I purposefully, intentionally, we'll catch up with my friends, you know, once a week, only, and I try not to go more than that. And the rest of, you know, the time is, you know, just for me to do things that I really enjoy. And, you know, I have a lot of support, you know, friends walking in the same field, who I can bounce back. And once a month I do see a psychologist or a coach, you know, for me to just even band or just checking in how I'm going with my life.

And having good friends around me is really good. I do a lot of self-care, like meditation, going for a walk, music, and a bit of breath work. So all of that helps. Has it been difficult to source or maintain social work supervision being in private practice? Well, what I try to do is I try to have like once a month, always once a month at least. There are times when my life is way too busy, I will slack off. But I get back on track very quickly, you know, because if I know that all the client is at regular, score, I'm not sure what I need to do with this client or I'm carrying something that's not great

inside of me. Then I'm like, okay, it's time for me to, you know, to go on to have a supervision, just to know what sort of things I can do to help these clients, but also just for me to reflect on my own feelings. Because, you know, if we are too busy, sometimes it can be, it's very easy for us to ignore what's happened, you know, when we sit there for the clients and we just, you know, get out the session, carry on with our days, and we just don't know that actually I still do. I still do carry that sort of stuff with me from the session with the clients. Yeah. What are the biggest changes that you're seeing with the work you're doing with the clients

or with the community at large? Is it that education piece? Is there something bigger that's shifting the focus, do you think? Because when you feel like you're kind of hitting your head against a hall sometimes and you're driving uphill and you're trying to work against a community or a stigma or a history that is so challenging, you kind of feel like you need to find those small wins in the work you're doing and being able to see some real tangible results. Where do you see those results coming through the work that you're doing? How do you stay motivated or feel like you're on track?

So with my Vietnamese community for now, I don't have a lot of expectation, but I do get a good feeling from giving and providing and just watching how things play out. I know that eventually it will get somewhere. moment I don't see a tangible and clear results yet but I get a good feelings from just creating content because you know it feels right for me and the message that I give out feels right for me which is you know it's great for you know expression the purpose of expression and being being who I am and talking about what I stand for on the social media so it already give me a good

feelings yeah so I don't expect anything quick in return I know that eventually probably sometime next year is going to to be completely different, but because it has been very new, it's only two months. And I already see that, yes, people do respond positively to my content, you know, obviously the lies in the comment don't tell us a lot of stuff, but, you know, but I do get a good feeling from, you know, how people are open and receptive and just to listen to my content. And some people comment that they do reasonate quite a lot with the content. And, you know, and they thanks me for the content that I provided. So I already get a good feelings

from there. Yeah, that must be so motivating. It's very motivating. It's very motivating, especially I don't have to modify too much, you know, my belief. Just like, this is what I stand for. This is my belief. And this is how I work with you, you know, in the future, things like that. And just providing a lot of information about trauma, the nervous system, the body, and the mental health and anxiety, things like that.

It's really validating as well. You know, you're on the right track. Very validating. Yeah, on the right track. about with my private practice, obviously, you know, it's low and that is okay, you know, SSED. At this stage, I just want to experiment things and I don't have a very clear measure. I have a business coach and, you know, they are helping me to see what sort of step I want to get into. But, you know, at this stage, I'm just feeling okay with what's happening now.

In my work, you know, as long as clients keep coming back, you know, they report some small way during the week. I know that what I'm doing is good enough. If they keep coming back, their report that, you know, I've done this, I've noticed this in myself, my family, my friends notice this in me, I know that, okay, this is going great. So even through with, you know, the way that they communicate with people, they, you know, express how they feel, they regulate their emotions, or they choose to step out of their comfort zone. With all of that, I know that, you know, I'm doing an okay job. Yeah, I mean, even just coming back, that's the big win, right?

You said that they want a quick fix, so anyone coming back means that you're on the right track. Yeah, yeah. Do you think that you would be interested in moving overseas and practicing in Vietnam or somewhere else? Or do you think for now this is where you want to be? So for now this is where I want to be, but you know, it's really hard to say anything about the future. So in the future, if there is a big calling in me, telling me that it's time where you to go to Vietnam, work there, and I feel like this is the right thing to do, I will do it. it. Do you get much of an opportunity to travel back home? I travel back home once or every two,

you know, once a year or once in every two years. Yeah. So I still have a very close connection with Vietnam and I have a lot of Vietnamese friends around me. I still practice the culture, all of that stuff. So, you know, it's still very close to my heart. Yeah. Yeah. Were there any other areas of social work that you would have loved to do a placement in or even in future you're interested in exploring? Let's see. That's a very interesting question. I haven't thought much about that. I think through doing this, through meeting so many amazing social workers, I get an idea of where people are at, because we might not be called social workers, but we're doing social work in a different area. And I just think, oh, that would be really cool and that would be cool.

And then you think, I don't have enough time in my entire life to do all of these things. So it's about calming the enthusiasm. I just got an idea. Yes. When you asked me, that's a lot. sort of question, something did come up into my mind. Yeah, if I could have another placement, what I would like to do is more group work, group work, you know, support group. I'm curious to see how group work can be run and how people can respond to group work. I wonder if that's a direction for the private practice potentially. Definitely, you know, I'm curious about that. I'm started to looking into that probably sometime in the future, so group work. And, you know, I'm curious about

the hospital setting as well and you know sort of a recovery center like you know withdraw detox healing things like that so if i have another placement i would probably take that chance to try that yeah and who knows there might be a locum position that comes up somewhere that's just like three months or six months and you can just have a taster of something yeah maybe i will i will keep my eye on that you know and to give her to try I mean, we don't need to give you extra things to do, but you know, it's an option. Yeah, but group work is something, definitely something that I want to really look into into the future. Because, you know, group work, you can make bigger impact through group work too.

And the message and the education can reach to more people than one-on-one counseling. Like obviously, one-on-one counseling, you focus a lot of the quality and the connection. But, you know, I think that with the right type of support and the strategy, I think group work can also do that. And I think there's probably a little bit more awareness of the benefit of group work from a funding model. Like I think, you know, referring out to a group, I don't know about the GPs, but NDIS and other sorts of insurance models are using it more and more just as a different type of therapy where other things haven't worked. So I think, yeah, there is greater awareness of the benefit, which is really positive. Yeah. And from what you said, I don't think that one-on-one,

counseling is for everyone. You know, not one-on-one therapy, one-on-one therapy can be for everyone, because some people may not be suitable for that. You know, if they want to do trauma, one-on-one, might not be good for, it may not be for everyone. Some people may be more beneficial through, you know, social support, having a group around them, having friends, you know, doing other activities rather than only one-on-one counseling session. If people wanted to know more about the type of work you're doing or even the approaches, the theories, where would you send them? Are there any good resources? So I do have two big Bible that I'm reading. You know, it's just more about trauma and the polybago and the nervous system stuff. It's just how the body keeps the score, which is a big

book that I love. And what else? A book in an unspoken voice written by Peter Levin. Yeah, there are so many good things and I'll find the links to those and I'll pop them in the show notes so people can go off and do their own research. Yeah. There are some really, really great resources that people keep coming back to when I talk to them. And I think, these things weren't around when I was studying. This is absolutely brand new, really in-depth things that, well, even if they were around, I wonder if they would have been taught in social work or if they would have been pitched to more psychology students or counseling students as opposed to social work.

You never know, I guess. Yeah. Is there anything else about your work, anything that you wanted to mention, anything we haven't discussed yet? But yeah, so far, you know, the world that I'm doing, with the world that I'm doing, I feel very happy about that. I mean, you've come such a long way from that migration experience and figuring out how to understand Aussie culture and where you fit in in all that, and then building your understanding of trauma from a drug and alcohol perspective while you're dealing. with your own background and your own experience and then transitioning from that into the private practice, right? For you, it was about building your networks, building your experience,

building your training and those opportunities, which is hard because you spend a lot of money on it and you want to get it right and you want to know that what you're doing is going to be beneficial for your work further on. But it's a lot about that, especially as you move into private practice. It's around developing that rapport and trust over time with your clients and especially for a cohort that you're working with where that therapeutic connection is so important in getting people to come back and to be able to really work on themselves over time and helping people to make meaningful changes. So, yeah, the fact that you're getting such great feedback from people and getting those small wins, I shouldn't have called them small wins.

they're actually big, it's a big deal, just being able to relate to someone and have them to understand that this is work that's worth doing and that it's going to make a big impact and helping them set goals as well, I guess, for their own therapeutic work. Yeah, yeah, thank you. You know, it's very validating. Yeah. But also having that cultural awareness, right? So you've got a really good understanding of your own community, but that translates to any other community as well. not just the Vietnamese community. I think so with other Asian community, you know, typical Asian community, you know,

people were at the same attitudes about mental health. Yeah. And I love seeing social workers move more into private practice and being able to really articulate where our value is as opposed to a psychologist or another type of therapist, someone who might call themselves therapists. So you've been able to really branch out and be able to identify where your strength is and what difference you can make in that community, which is great. Thank you.

I look forward to seeing where it takes you, because as you said, you're only very early on. So you've got plenty of work to do still. Yeah, it's a new start, you know, and I'm sure that, you know, I have more to do for the future, but for now, I'm just going to see how things go and not pressuring myself too much. And with me, I usually do have three minds, hang on, you know, slow down, you're doing too much. You know, slow down, you're doing enough, you know. Don't feel like you have to do more than this.

You know, you're doing enough. You already done a lot. Don't pressure yourself anymore. Because I do have that sort of imposter syndrome every now and then telling me that you're not doing it now. You know, that you should have done more. You should have achieved more. But I'm like, no, no, no, you're okay.

It is hard to break that automatic cycle of, like, even when you were studying full-time plus working part-time, if that's all you've ever done is go at 150 miles an hour or 150% of your capacity. slowing down a little bit is probably going to feel really weird. So yeah, doing your own work to figure it out. I'm getting better at that. I'm getting better at that. Oh, so that's good. Yeah, but, you know, every now and then, you know, I'm still learning to acknowledge that. Yeah, I come this far and that's okay. I think it's a lifelong thing. Yeah, trust the process, talk to other people and other people will probably

say, well, that's a lot. And that might help you to be thinking, okay, yeah, that is actually quite a lot. rest on this. I've done good work this week. I can stop. I can take some time out. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm still learning about that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been an incredible discussion and I've loved hearing about your work and what you're up to at the moment. And hopefully we can continue to follow what you're up to and see how you're doing. And yeah, I'm sure it'll take you great places. Thank you very much, Jasmine, for inviting me to the podcast. Lovely to talk to you. and who knows in the future we come across.

You know, we cross past again. Yeah. It's been my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Teng, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm.

slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlightpodcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Gaul, an accredited mental health social worker who has worked in tertiary-level mental health services for 15 years.

Gaul currently works in private practice at psychology, training and supervision, where he specialises in couples and family therapy, as well as providing clinical supervision to mental health clinicians. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you next time.