Social Work Spotlight - Episode 114: Veronya

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

In this episode I speak with Veronya, an English and Arabic speaking accredited mental health social worker supporting young people in an early psychosis program. Verona has worked as a senior clinician and team leader with Headspace doing single sessions, supporting an outreach clinic and participating in the flood hub in Londonderry.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Australian NeuroFeedback Institute - https://anfi.org.au/Bessel van der Kolk’s The Body Keeps the Score - https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-scoreThis episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-9dnEqhWu9WaJr1nz5-ZfMJzC2MO8kRh0OXhc9DdHPs/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Jasmine Lupus, and today's guest is Verona, an English and Arabic-speaking accredited mental health social worker with experience working with young people aged between 12 to 15 years in an early psychosis program. Verona has worked as a senior clinician with Headspace doing single sessions, an outreach clinic, and participating in the flood hub in Londonderry, as well as being a team leader in their primary care team. Veronia is also a scout and loves camping. She got married this year and her partner motivated her to complete her mental health accreditation, including the standards and exam, in just three months. Thank you so much, Verona. I'm really happy to have a chat with you today

about your journey and social work so far and, yeah, thanks so much for joining me. Thank you, Yasmin. It's been a pleasure and I haven't done this a lot. So I've heard about podcast. casts and how it works, but you might find me posing along the way just because I'm not used to talking for a long period of time, but I'll do my best. Yeah, I'm sure you'll be great. Firstly, I always ask when you got started in social work. Nice, easy question. And what brought you to the profession? Maybe not such an easy question. Absolutely. So my journey started from studying psychological studies. That's when I kind of wanted to go into psychology and become my psychologist. So I found that it's purely a lot of research based, a lot of math involved.

So that wasn't really my thing. And I wanted to explore the mental health from a different view. And that's when I did a bit of research and thought maybe social work. So I graduated with Bachelor of Psychological Studies and went to study my master's in social work. And that's when I encountered the cool bunch at uni where we did all the group assignments together. They've been really helpful resources and did really nice placements like both in hospital and out in the community. So I was lucky with that. And that's when I kind of ventured out to different services and explored what social work is really around mental health.

And are you still in touch with that cool group from uni? Yeah. Actually we follow each other on LinkedIn. And so I think what I've learned from that group is as social workers, we got to advocate for ourselves and that's something that they helped me into. We did create a Facebook group where we actually raised some of our struggles and when we voiced out that struggles, it seemed like a common thing and then we started doing advocacy to the management at Union, you know, the upper hands and sort of getting some systematic change and that's when we started getting a

taste of being a social worker. Yeah. Yeah, so we voiced out a lot of those concerns and we were more powerful because we were very connected group, well connected group. They did also exchange, like just by having any casual chats, we were exchanging our knowledge about social, systematic issues. And to me, that was like, wow, you know, that was my first experience of actually getting people put in their input and feeling like I really belong somewhere. and those kind of people have like similar ideas to minds or similar concerns to mine or we communicate really well so that's when i felt like maybe i'm in the right place yeah for sure and

what were your placements while you were doing the masters yes as i said i was likely to do one in part in hospital part in community mental health so that was coming in touch with the public system dealing with voluntary and involuntary presentations seeing some confrontational stuff and some really nice and funny situations as well. Like one time I was hosting a group of mindfulness. And as I was walking around in hospital and, you know, calling people out, you know, a mindfulness group, mindfulness, mindfulness, who would like to do it? And then one person was like, what are you doing here?

I was like, you know, hosting that mindfulness group. And she was like, what is mindfulness and all that? We had the chat. And then she was like, I said, it's like, it's like, meditation have you done meditation before she and I think that was triggering for her without me noticing because she thought I was talking about medications and it's kind of got me a little bit of funny experiences but also understanding how you could be misinterpreted as a person who works in the system so yeah she didn't know that I'm a

student actually just looking for numbers at that time and looking for engagement that was a funny situation for me but also taught me a lot as well there was part in the community where i just got introduced to a bunch of terms like community treatment orders how to deal with families not just the individual client how to actually try and engage people rather than you know the system's got its faults as well but you don't want to be imposing things on people how do you engage them you best engage them about the service and the second one was more like community-based services So helping the community with groups, with electricity and gas bills, doing a bit of case management, service navigation. So all of that also got you to see other cultural groups or other vulnerable groups that don't have the luxury to advocate for themselves because they don't have the language or they don't have the means to reach out to expensive services or private psychologists.

and then you just step into therapy naturally without being asked to and then deal with some crisis situations like DV. And that widened a little bit of my perception that sometimes a social worker can be a bit of everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. That tailoring your message to different audiences, I think sometimes that's so much more than reading the room.

It's understanding each person's context and what they might benefit, but what they might get out of a group program or individual support, that was such an invaluable lesson, I think, as a student, to be able to reflect on that. Yeah, I was very lucky in that way. But also, I think the most important thing is that each encounter with a consumer client was something that taught me something to. It's not just about us being the service.

So we just provide. Sometimes you just need to sit back, observe, learn, grow, and reflect on your own ethical standards, your own biases, your own personal experiences, and how that comes in terms to your professional, I guess, identity and service delivery. Yeah, it's about that engagement, not just providing a service. Absolutely. In a lot of the situations, I was trying not to fall into the trap of being perceived as part of the service.

People see some power in you that you don't know. You're going around, you're wearing that cap or hat of power, but you don't notice it. Other people notice it. And that can be a disadvantage to the therapeutic relationship or the professional relationship that you have with them. And it can impact on your support because they might not want to show some vulnerabilities, or they might feel so vulnerable with your presence or with you trying to provide as much support and they feel like, but actually that's not what I need. Is she even hearing me?

Yeah. Yeah. That's such a good point. How did that experience then influence what you wanted to do once you left uni? Yeah, it was very interesting. So it taught me about like that dignity and respect, no matter what presentation you see, no matter how much you disagree with this person about which path they choose, no matter that they follow your advice or they don't follow at the end of the day,

they have that dignity of making a choice. Obviously, you try and limit your risks. You try and support them if they are really unwell and kind of come to you in a very vulnerable situation. But apart from that, like you mentioned to them about something like translation service or legal advice about a certain issue and they don't think this is a priority for them, you might have to come in terms and get that a bit of peace and acceptance that they're not going to go through that. They choose not to go through that path. So you might have to work around the barriers

of accessibility to that service or okay, let's put that aside and what is your priority and work around them. So cater for that person-centered approach rather than trying to over-service or being, sometimes we'd be very parentified with our clients and try and just be careful that they have the best care that they could possibly have, but they have that dignity of choice at the end of the bay, and it's their journey. We're part of their journey. And sometimes I tell my clients that, you know, I honor and I respect that you share this with me. To share such valuable things, you don't want to look vulnerable in front of anyone. So sometimes that power of showing this vulnerability is actually something that we should honor, we should respect. And even if we can't

assist at the time being, we should reinforce that. of hope because that's what they come for. Maybe they need someone to listen, someone to just give a bit of hope, someone to reassure, someone to acknowledge their strength. All those things, we think it's, you know, common sense, or we think I just need to jump into solutions straight away. You know, I'm here for solutions. And it's not what they have come for. Yeah. And what was your first roll out once you left uni? So I worked a fair bit with Headspace. I was also lucky with my journey with Headspace working around like an early psychosis program at first. So this one included it was a very holistic program. It included functional recovery team. So it's

almost like NDIS where you get support workers or OTs and different multidisciplinary people to go out there and coach you around some social skills. You also get a free psychiatrist, which is not in many services. And you get a therapist who sort of is this. the main person to facilitate your care across all those teams. I was so lucky to have been introduced to a research project under government funding from, it's called neurofeedback. So this one would like more about less talking about trauma or certain presentations that cause a lot of distress and more of training your brain of how it responds to those memories or those difficult experiences.

And I did a trial myself on that program, so just to get a gauge of how it looks and how to sort of encourage some people to take part of it. But it was a research. Unfortunately, it finished the state for a short period of time. But it was really good to see as well. And how long were you in that role? In the early psychosis team, I think about two, two and a half years. And then I continued with Headspace for a senior clinician role, mainly facilitating the intakes

like all the referrals coming in, liaising with services, doing advocacy. I was also trained for single session therapy, which means that any distress clients or complex comorbid presentations, you do a bit of assessment, you do a bit of therapy, and then you formulate a bit of a plan, treatment plan with the client. And from there, you check in and see if they need like multiple sessions, like two or three sessions to say get linked up with services or have supportive counselling and then link them with longer-term support annual sort of ends there and then all the intakes like facilitating making sure it's all workings have covers and facilitating meeting discussions about all the intakes that come through

we used to have about sometimes eight or ten intakes a day that we need to discuss a morning meeting so you've got to do that in a timely way or making sure that you're covering all of them but also very timely so that you can actually head to your appointments and so on. That's a lot of assessments then right? A lot of getting to know someone very quickly and being able to determine what they need from just that one session. Yeah so again like with the training about single session therapy it's required like it's not for everyone also might be for some. someone who's, say, highly distressed and they come in and they talk about, an example is a breakup that recently happened. It might increase their depressive symptoms really high. So you bring

them in, you give them that space to talk about it, you do a bit of supportive counseling, you check in if there's any risks involved, any diagnosis, any mental health issues that could be impacting. And then you might link them up with couples counseling or something like that, relationships counseling and then it's up to them if they want to come back for mental health or if they prioritize their relationships counseling at that stage. So it's more like client-guided person-centered again, like rather than staying for that treatment journey and then they don't really want to focus on mental health now. They have other pressing issues that they want to focus on. Yeah, just reminds me a lot of being in the hospital environment and especially in the emergency

department where you might only have one opportunity to spend time with that person and yeah you really have to get a lot achieved in a small amount of time without making it seem like you're checking boxes and going through a really rigid assessment process so i think that speaks to social work and our learnings and teachings around engagement and being able to build rapport and that sort of therapeutic alliance even just in one session that's so powerful absolutely and it's Also, as I said, like it's a really honorable experience that you see how much one session can make a difference. But again, like it depends if the person is actually here for one session or it depends on their needs at that time and their goals. So at all times, I think the most important thing is that you try and align with their goals because there's no point of overservicing if they are not ready to address that issue that you want to address in therapy.

So it's good to understand their point of view as well. Yeah. And so you moved from sort of a clinician space to more of a leadership, it sounds like, role as well as doing the assessment work and the intake. How is that for you stepping into leadership? Does that mean you then supervised other, like is it just social workers in your team or are you supervising psychologists? There's a lot to unpack there.

Yeah. So I did hear some supervisions. And that was part of, like, I did a temporary cover for a team leader role. So that's when I stepped into supervision. Otherwise, I was just running the meetings. But when I did supervision, it was very interesting because it got me to reflect on my own practice and also understand a little bit of having a fresh eye on certain presentations and sort of things like notes that over time you do it more quicker.

it might be something difficult for someone at this stage and how you support them through that process so that they can overcome this challenge. So yeah, you see different issues. You see the issue around like the difficulties with the discharge process or exiting process for clients. That might not only be hard for clients or families. It can also be hard for clinicians. And how do you coach them around that? And also, So like as a mental health service, how do you maintain the mental health of the workers as well as the clients? So how do you practice what you're preaching sessions, really, is the challenge.

So it's good to have those reflective sessions and also supervision sessions where they get a chance to actually raise those points. And then it's a journey again to work through our own studies, our own ways and each person is different of how they manage it. good to hear like some skills that they have developed. Some of them I still use until now. I hear from other clinicians and I use myself. Yeah, but just being there. So I was like more of a hands-on team leader at that time because like they know that they can just, I'm just one call away or one message away if there's anything. So they've, I believe that they felt that they

have their support and also helping them through their professional development as well, like, what their goals are. So you're not here to just the clients. We also here to develop some goals for yourself. Where do you see yourself which areas you want to improve in which areas you would like more training of? So that's also very important. What kind of support did you need in that space though? Because as you said, it's not just the clients that you're supporting. It's the workers, the staff. And as we know, even just exposure to traumatic content. puts you at higher risk of something like vicarious trauma or burnout. So how did you support your staff and how do you support yourself?

Absolutely. I'm also aware like because again like as being part of the system, they might see there's an issue that maybe some stuff we're unable to work just through supervision. So getting the perspective on how we improve policies because I had a lot of them as social workers. So it was really good to have those chats about if you were, to do it better, like what do you think could change or how can we achieve this and having that collaborative conversation rather than, you know, solution focused. But also acknowledging external support. So I remember like one clinician was affected financially because of something and then we

had a chat about center link support available or IPA support because some people don't feel comfortable bringing personal stuff at the workplace or chatting to their team. leader about it. So to ensure that they feel safe to talk about it, maybe resulting to external supervision that would be paid by the company or even those counselling support available through EPA. Yeah. And you also, you've gotten your accredited mental health social work status. What was that process like for you? Because I've heard it can be horrendous. It's very grueling. It's a big undertaking. How did you find? it. Yeah. So I did for a long time like trying to get my head around where to start from because

I feel like there's not enough guidance on the website. There's some documents but I also struggle with so many documents. I feel so overwhelmed. So I resulted to this group of friend that I chatted about to sort of highlight for me the important parts or share with me some documents with the important part. Yeah. I did seek some supervision like external supervision vision, very limited but actually because I didn't have the financial means to do so. Some of them, like more senior than me, you know, have more experiences and have done it ages ago. So I got some advice about the overall process, about what to write on the standards, that

kind of thing. But also I felt like their feedback is so general. So I wanted to have even more support. So I reached out so when I did the process, starting to gather my papers and then I applied I met my goals, I applied. I did speak with some peer mentors or peer supervisors. So people who recently done it, because what happened with me is that when I did a time limit for myself to submit and that was January this year, the system has just changed. So everything that my supervisors were telling me is actually changed.

Wow. I was so disappointed, but I seeked some peer mentor just to guide me through, the website, even the web portal, I kept calling ASW. They were very helpful just to check about some stuff, including my membership. I wasn't actually in the correct membership and I wasn't told that I need to upgrade my membership. So I was on a student membership for the whole time. So I had to pay the social worker membership and the senior social worker membership to be eligible to apply for the accreditation. So it was a lot of finances. Yeah, for sure. And especially when it sounds as though from what you were saying before, your whole point of wanting to do this work is to narrow the gap between those who can pay for services and those who can't. And ironically, you're in that position as well.

Yeah, but I think it's good to consider how much you're going to pay for it so that you're actually prepared financially as well. And then so when I seek that peer mentoring, they were clear about those things, like how much you're expected to pay financially. how much you need to put in in terms of words and work in the standards how prepared should you be for the exam so they gave me really practical tips about that and that actually was very helpful for me down the track when I came to apply and I actually met my goal because I was going to get married in February so I just had that cut off that I need to finish before I travel for my marriage so I had no other options and

So I did actually submit in December my standards and then I got approved for the exam. And then after getting approved for the exam did it, I had to repeat two standards. So that's when I had to do it in January. And I was like calling the ASW advocating for myself to get an early sort of marking so that I know whether I'm going to achieve it or not. But it worked out at the end and I passed those to standards. Yeah, nice. And it sounds like you're doing some work supporting other people now who want to go through that process themselves. Absolutely. So again, I wouldn't call it like formal supervision, like more of a peer mentoring around the whole process.

So I do prepare that PowerPoint to go through. And this is like for anyone who's actually just starting the process, not at the end of submission, just to give an idea of what to expect, what the process looks like, where to start from. starting gathering your supervision hours early, when you start really, start keeping those records in, your training so that when it comes to the end of the two years, you're prepared to just submit and meet your goal rather than going through the hassle that I went through. So I actually had about three or four people so far that passed their assessment and exam, which is making me proud. Yeah, that's amazing. Although how often do they change the process similar to what happened to you, how long before you have to update the PowerPoint presentation?

Yeah, so that's a question that I really don't know. I think we both kind of don't know what's happening with that because, yeah, for me, like I haven't been a social worker for long enough to see the frequent change of the system. But I also, as a student, I've always questioned, why am I part of the ASW? What the benefits of being a part of that and also being a student? You think about finances and then, again, after you finish, like, maybe you consider it for trainings and other benefits. But yeah, I'm a bit skeptical about that. Like, I don't know. I'm still looking until now, like, what the benefits of it.

So it's good to be part of an association, but also, like, what can they, offer and how can we work collaboratively with the association as well you know just being part of organizations but we also belong to the association so how can we also contribute to the association maybe that's the next step maybe you need to get onto the board and start making some changes that will help people or advocate yeah yeah advocate for some change you know in your spare time that is so how are you using the accreditation now how is that benefiting you and that people you support. So I choose not to go into private practice just for the time being because I'm still getting my head around how it works and also it's again like the experience itself like

is it isolating? Is it more like because I've always worked in multidisciplinary team. So I really am still looking into that and I want to have that time to think about it and also a lot of changes in my personal life so I kind of want to keep that work life balance. But I'm all also benefiting from having the knowledge and information that I did for my assignment to apply into therapy. So this comes in handy with all my therapeutic skills, enhances them a lot. And also as we talk about sort of advocacy skills and sort of initiating that systematic change, so even though I'm not now part of management in my new role here, but I can actually talk through some of the systematic issues and actually foresee some of the systematic issues because

of my experience working in different teams of how it is and specialising in mental health is really important because you've got that focus and you've worked with different client groups so you can actually you almost become like a peer worker as well like you have that shared experience about the other clients experience from your own experience with the system so you can provide that advocacy as well in team meeting and I did as mentioned like work around doing that peer mentoring. So at the moment, this is fulfilling or satisfying me that I've done the accreditation for something, but also my long-term plan or probably by next year, like thinking to go into private practice. And hopefully there will be people within your inner circle who can help with that

process as well, because it's becoming a much more common thing for social workers in private practice, which is great. Yeah. I think social workers have these great skills about balancing therapy and case management, which comes in handy and even more practical when you have those chats with some clients, like some of their issues and problems and some of their symptoms are coming from real life struggles. And those issues, unless they are somewhat resolved, the symptoms are going to keep going because they are living under those stresses. So you don't want to only just support with talk therapy, which is great, well and good, and diagnosis and all the rest of it but you also want to provide a way out from some of their struggles by your knowledge

around services by your professional network by advocacy by talking them through steps to get through the system because a lot of the systematic problems are around like you know that people having to fill in paperwork and getting diagnosis to access certain services but now how can you support them with the holistic assessment the bi-psychosocial assessment that you do people don't necessarily certainly know about those tools that you have as a social worker, but it's good to bring those talks with them to bring about change, not just to talk about change. And also to bring about a sense of hope in a world that might seem pretty hopeless. Speaking of balance, you do a lot. You're doing a lot. How do you find balance? How do you make sense of all of that? I think in supervision and social

work in general is the concept of reflection which is very helpful to find that inner peace so you know how in acceptance and commitment therapy like you have at one point you have to teach people how to be in peace with some of the difficult stuff so my piece comes from that i come to this job i give it my 100%. If i don't feel 100%, i should not be here i should call in sick or take a mental health day and when I give it my all that is all I have I understand that no one is unlimited so I do have limits to what I can give or what my service can provide the service I work for so I come to acceptance that some of the things I can change other things I cannot I just have to accept I cannot change for the time being but I will work towards change but I my role ends here my role

limitation is this. So coming in terms with that balance, what I can change. And I actually have this quote printed in my desk at work. So that after each session, I come in to do my notes and I look up and it's like a little prayer, God give me the serenity to change the things that I can and accept the things I cannot and sort of to come in terms with that I've done my best. My role is this. And Also in another way, I think as social workers, we like to empower our clients. So often when someone comes in with so much complexity, you fall into the trap of being the parent in this relationship rather than the therapist. And then you want to do everything for them and you start losing inside of their strength. And that is a big thing.

They come to you. They've been managing without you for a long time. So you should also reflect on what made them cope until now, how they managed to do it. And all those stuff are not a coincidence. So that's what reinforces not just your acceptance, but actually the change does not only come from my end or the psychiatrist or whoever you're going to see next is going to come from your end too. So it's a shadrous instability in that way. Especially with voluntary clients, they've come to you. They're requesting support.

So that's part of the battle. That's probably half of the work down there. Absolutely. And even like with involuntary clients, like what is the barrier for us to work collaboratively? If that's like how risky it is or like say, for example, a lot of people left vulnerable, but they don't know about the option of having guardianship. I will just talk about this story really quick with a cold group that I worked with, a cold family.

The son is 15 and is having a lot of mental health complex, comorbid issues. And while they're having a review with the psychiatrist, I noticed some hesitancy about whether they're giving the correct dose of medications. Mind you, some of those medications were a restrictive practice. Like you can't play with the dose, otherwise you're actually restricting him. You're doing something illegal. They didn't know that. They thought, well, the doctor's giving us the medication.

and we might give him more because that's what makes our son at peace and you know okay and so when I noticed that hesitancy and I asked because obviously that rapport they have they disclosed to me what's been happening and I didn't have that reactive judgmental approach of you know how could you do this also let them know about the legal issues with this but in a way okay I see that it's very difficult for you to manage the care of your son, he's approaching 16. How about we explore the public guardian sort of option? And that way you have a say in your son's care,

but it doesn't feel as overwhelming with the medications, with the daily activities, with the legal issues that he might be causing because some of his behaviors. And little did I know. They were actually experiencing some violence from him, and they didn't want to disclose it because they feared that the son will be taken away. Yeah. So options like simple as public guardian or having a guardian appointed, which was the case like they got a public guardian in place could seem so simple to me or I know of, but people don't know of these options, but there is a solution to their struggle.

There is something that can elevate the pressure from them. And did that order include restrictive functions? Because I imagine as a public guardian versus private, that would be a little bit more difficult to monitor. Yeah, so because he had NDIS, so the public guardian was able to work with the support work around decision making too. And I think that's the main thing that the parents struggled with because they felt like they've been given this responsibility, but they are unable to give the correct dose. They are unable to cope up with all the medication names because of their work commitment and also the language barrier and also communicate with all these services being involved

for their son. They want the best for their son, but they also don't know how to do it. I think the best thing an advocate can do is understand limitations, right? And be saying, well, this is as far as my capacity goes or my capability. This is someone I need to outsource to. That's really powerful. Absolutely. And it's a collaborative thing. So not just only with the client, but also with stakeholders or people involved in the client's life because sometimes the client is actually does not want family to be involved. But family is all they have got when they are experiencing crisis or when they're going through a tough time. So they want to communicate to you, please don't tell my family or take their opinion about everything. But when this happens, include them in safety plan or when you have risk concern, please talk to them.

That's where I feel safe. that's how I feel safe. So we should also give that choice, even if there is risk of this, to the extent that, okay, even if you want them to be involved in certain conditions, how can we accommodate that so that we honor your wishes and also make it in a safe way, obviously. You're carrying so much cognitively, mentally, physiologically, how do you disconnect from that? What do you do for fun? A lot, actually. Yes, I'm a, scout leader so that's like my happy place going camping and being outdoor really family and friends i started my family not long ago so there's just this year so i just got married this year

so that also required a bit of planning and also fun to have grow in your own personal life and as opposed to just focusing on work most of the time so i feel satisfied in that i didn't grow in one area and neglected another area so I feel satisfied in that. But also I came to realization. It was something that was actually difficult for me to accept, speaking of acceptance, and I was actually talking to my supervisor about this when the wedding planning was happening. I was like, you know, I can't take this opportunity right now. I feel so pressured, but I know this opportunity is so good for me at work. And she goes, you can't try and grow in all areas all at once. You have to put some areas on pose, grow in another area, and then put this area on pose,

and then grow in this area again. And that's how you kind of manage life. You can't put more pressure on yourself. Yeah. Incredible. And have you seen a lot of changes over time in this area? There's some things that are working out really well or things that you'd like to change? I think in terms of work, as I'm trying a new work, like.

obviously the policies are different and also my new job is kind of around like a new service being established so some of the systematic issues that they have now I've encountered beforehand so I kind of know a short way or a shortcut to the solution but also like being part of the team like I have to just share my opinion and kind of take what other opinions as well it feels like really good to be part of a service that doesn't have as much structure as well so that we find our own pace and how it works and different regulations with the funding. So everything, even the systems are getting updated all the time. So it's causing a bit of discomfort that comes with the change. But I also

like change in the workplace because I like to learn about new systems and new research, like what has been working, where is this research coming from? What are we basing our model on. So I want to be open to that learning about new areas as well. And my current job is mainly with adults, whereas my previous one with Headspace is obviously the age limit of 25. So it was a bit limited in terms of the age limit, but now I'm more like having broader range of presentations, age, so that feels really good. In terms of, I think, something that I'm working on in my, not personal life, but my personality, including professional, is like managing how you can just be less reactive and less solution-focused and more reflective. So something I think. Once you say,

I mastered this area, you still find that there is a lot to develop. Yeah, because it's something we don't get a lot of space for in a practical work setting. Often it's go, go-go-go, you've got to do 100 things and you don't get that time to just sit back and reflect. So it sounds as though you're building a way of working around that, which I think is really healthy. Yeah, absolutely. We've got to keep ourselves reminded of all those foundational stuff that we've done when we studied the degree, I guess. Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned research. Is there anything specific you're working on at the moment or any projects or programs? I'm not actually doing any research at the moment, but I like to read new research about therapies and treatment options. So I'm always keeping an active eye on that.

So I guess neurofeedback was one of them that inspired me. So I got interested in that and did a bit of research around new feedback and talk to some professionals who actually do it because as a social worker, I think it's in America more common than here. But a lot of social workers, but a lot of social can get the training and become accredited neurofeedback practitioners from what I understand but I don't think it's as well known here in Australia. Mm-hmm. So something that I kind of been interested in. After doing a bit of trauma trainings about new therapies and a little bit about EMDR, tapping, all those stuff,

I think I'm just trying to explore that concept of how you do therapy for trauma without actually talking. talking about trauma because it can be ret traumatizing. So those new ways of dealing with trauma is something that interests me. Recently, where the body keeps the score and sort of how it talks about, you don't actually just need to speak to the brain. The body holds those memories and how can you work with the body about mindfulness and all those skills as opposed to just focusing on talk therapy mainly to talk about the trauma and sort of trying to work around the talks about the trauma.

Yeah. I'll put links to those resources in the show notes because I think they're really important for people to go off and check out in terms of the neurofeedback and other research and those wonderful books. But if people wanted to know more about any of the other things that you do or concepts, even single session therapy or act, what are some resources that you'd like to shout out?

I'm happy to share my own resources, because some of that was training through the organizations that have been in. And there's one more thing that's interesting. So I heard that from a client actually that came in and did their own research about sort of the treatment with cannabis, the medicinal cannabis. And they wanted to chat to the psychiatrist about, but I don't think there is enough research in that area. So every day there's new research and even like sometimes clients are more aware of research than me. So they used me about this new research.

But in terms of trauma, I think the tapping one that I did was very helpful. I've heard from so many people like tapping doesn't work. But actually the person who gave that training was really good as well. So it was really helpful for me. Yeah. Yeah, great. A fun question just to finish up on. If you weren't doing this, I know you've just spent so much time trying to become an accredited mental health social worker

and you've been working in the mental health space and hospitals and community, if you could do anything in time and money weren't an option, what kind of social work do you think you'd like to do? What's been interesting for you to hear about? There's a very interesting question. I haven't actually thought of it. But I know that since, like, I was a child, I always wanted to help people.

So I didn't, I was kind of between, should I become a lawyer or a psychologist kind of thing? So those were like my two dream jobs. and I think I'm kind of happy where I am. I can't imagine doing any other things. But even like when I do scouting or I do services with the church or something like that, it's anything that gets me talking to people. I just love talking to.

I could forget names, suburb names, you know, resources, you name it, maybe date of birth, that sort of stuff. But if you tell me a story about someone I just formulated in my head, I would never forget it. So if I see that person again, I remember exactly sort of the story and I really get connected to stories. Like I really love hearing people's stories and learning from it. It's a great thing.

I don't think anything is greater than the job we do. Yeah. I mean, slightly biased, but yes, I agree. We're pretty wonderful. And we get in everywhere. We find our way into pockets of life where we're needed, but you just kind of don't expect us to pop up that we're there. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. Before we finish up, Veronica, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to mention or anything you wish I'd asked of you? I think just for whoever is listening to us, I think it's really great. If you did choose that career, it's amazing and it's got some difficult days and some overwhelming tasks to do. And I've learned something that you don't always, being part of someone's journey, you don't

always get to see the end result. Sometimes people come to you in a very distressed state and they walk out or they finish all the therapy sessions that you could offer and they feel like they haven't actually improved or nothing has been accomplished. But you know what? Even if your role is just to plant the seed or actually do just so much, you're actually making a difference. Maybe they are not ready yet or whatever but I'm sure in a point of time they will remember

that they've encountered you and just focus on making that experience good and just positive. for them to remember and that's it. And that's where your role ends. Like it's up to them and it depends on their state whether they can actually take it on or they're not ready to take it on at the moment. But it stays there with them. People don't forget us that easily

when they walk the stress and you offer you to listen. Just by listening, they're actually very thankful for that. Yeah, it comes back to that single session concept of you don't necessarily see the outcome but you're part of the process, which is important. You are a team. You work as a team and you support someone through a small part.

Sometimes it's the worst day of their life. And it's a way of at least holding their hand, guiding them through, making them feel as though there is hope. It's not all lost. And there's a path through here. So I think it's wonderful work. And even going back to what you're saying initially around building your support network, your core group of people and being able to exchange knowledge and be an advocate for

yourself and for other people. I think that's what we need to keep coming back to is building your tribe and having these people around you who can, you were challenged very early on in your career and this is a way of helping build a foundation where you know how to deal with these challenges and afford someone dignity of risk and being able to be non-judgmental and having a really intimate knowledge of systems in order to help someone navigate through that. So then kind of working on to the accredited mental health process and considering options and supporting other people through that. So everything you're doing speaks to social work values. It's that core stuff that we're built to do and we're really good at while being really mindful of your own

limitations and being realistic about what you're capable of. So yeah, it's wonderful that you could share all that. I'm so appreciative of your time. Really, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you so much, yes, for taking this time. And actually, listening to so many people and you're doing an amazing job at this podcast and it's awesome thank you so much for inviting me thank you it's my pleasure and hope to do it for a lot longer i hope so true thank you thanks for joining me this week if you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or veronia please visit my anchor page at anchor dot fm slash social work spotlight you can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com.

I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Brooke, a senior psychotherapist and mental health social worker, specialising in trauma and attachment, child and youth mental health, perinatal mental health, and family therapy. Brooke believes strongly in the healing power of nature and animals and uses these principles as director of a clinic near Brisbane

offering equine facilitated therapy, working from a body-based trauma-informed perspective. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you next time.