Social Work Spotlight - Episode 115: Brooke

Episode Date: August 2, 2024

In this episode I speak with Brooke, a senior psychotherapist and Mental Health Social Worker specialising in trauma and attachment, child and youth mental health, perinatal mental health and family therapy. Brooke believes strongly in the healing power of nature and animals, and uses these principles as Director of a clinic near Brisbane offering Equine Facilitated Therapy, working from a body based trauma informed perspective.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Milan Family Systems Therapy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZkhboTUS3sVancouver Association for Survivors of Torture - https://www.vastbc.ca/BC Centre for Ability - https://bc-cfa.org/Australian National FASD Program - https://fare.org.au/fasd-program/Professional Association for Equine Facilitated Wellness - https://www.equinefacilitatedwellness.org/Therapy Well - https://www.therapywell.com.au/Social Thinking - https://www.socialthinking.com/Tara Brach’s guided RAIN meditations - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytr1V1R1rOw&list=PLKVXvQ02E4wqYNDeDvB-V8uYCoDmGVZ-8Diagnosis in developmental-behavioural paediatrics: the art of diagnostic formulation (O’Keeffe & Macauley) - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21790830/Dyadic Developmental Psychotherapy - https://ddpnetwork.org/about-ddp/dyadic-developmental-psychotherapy/The Theraplay Institute - https://theraplay.org/what-is-theraplay/Pat Ogden’s Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute - https://sensorimotorpsychotherapy.org/therapist-directory/pat-ogden-phd/Dan Siegel - https://drdansiegel.com/Guru Dudu’s silent disco tours - https://www.gurududu.org/silentdisco/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RPy4sMMYDublukBAxmddHY1eXWeXxJuPpREnfpOCKwc/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasamine Lupus, and today's guest is Brooke, a senior psychotherapist and mental health social worker, specialising in trauma and attachment, child and youth mental health, perinatal mental health and family therapy. Brooke believes strongly in the healing power of nature and animals and uses these principles as director of a clinic near Brisbane, offering equine facilitated therapy, working from a body-based trauma-informed perspective. Thanks so much, Brooke, for coming onto the podcast and having to chat with me today about your social work experience so far. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Can I firstly ask when you got started in social work and what brought you to the profession? Well, technically I graduated, I think, in 2013 from my masters of social work, but sort of, like I didn't start as a social work.

but before then, really, but like my journey to social work started before then, I guess, just because of the experience that I'd had leading up to there and like the reasons I chose to do it. I did my master's through UQ, the University of Queensland. Before that, I had done a Bachelor of Social Science and majored in community development. And so I guess I sort of had that systemic lens through my bachelor. And then I went and did some work at child safety for a while as a child safety officer, which was good experience to have. My hat goes off to all the child safety officers out there. Child protection works pretty hard going, rewarding, but good. And then I guess I went and worked out west where I grew up. I grew up like at in Gundawndyndy. And where I grew up,

Gundwendy as a town, like people might know of it, but it's on the border of New South Wales and Queensland. Like the river is the border between the two states. And there's an Aboriginal community across the river from Gunderwindie, a town called Bogabilla first, and then there's an Aboriginal mission called Tumala past Bogabilla. And so I went out there, after I'd worked at child safety for a little bit after my bachelor's, I went out there and did drug and alcohol counselling and youth work. And so that was sort of a big eye opener. And it was really amazing to work out there.

I had a really good team that I worked with of local people. and it was a pretty, it was a bit of a watershed moment for me. Like I knew that my community where I grew up had a lot of racism. My parents were kind of connected to some of that past history of the town through things that had happened a long time ago in the 80s because my parents owned a pub in town and there was a riot in town back then. And yeah, it was like a big deal and there was still a lot of intergenerational stuff that had happened around that.

but then I went out as a drug and alcohol counselor to the community. And the community, I mean, they didn't have to welcome me. They were really graceful, gracious, I should say, in welcoming me and letting me in because I was pretty young. Like I was only 21 at the time. Yeah. And yeah, I wasn't from their community. So like, you know, I was a white person coming out there who was supposed to do drug

and alcohol counselling. And I was the only drug and alcohol counselor out there that was actually going out to the community. and so they had a lot of my life experience than I did, lots of the people that I was working with. They had really long histories of intergenerational trauma, but also intergenerational resilience. And so, yeah, that sort of moment was then the catalyst for me doing social work

because I wanted to work in the trauma space and I wanted to be able to do trauma therapy because I realised that all of the substance abuse and misuse issues came from trauma in the community that I was working in. And I wanted to be able to work in a way that, I guess, acknowledge the systemic issues that were contributing to what was happening out there. So that's kind of why I went into social work and didn't go into psychology because social work aligned with my values.

The reasons I wanted to be able to do the work that I do now, which is, you know, we kind of exist as people in environments, in context, in relationships with systemic things happening all around us all the time. So, yeah, I didn't want to have that individual. pathology lens necessarily. Not that all psychologists have that by any means, but social work very much sits in that systemic way of thinking, you know, as a person in environment. Yeah. How did you and the organisation you worked for managed risk in that environment as a young person going out by yourself, that would be really challenging? Yeah. Look, I, it was pretty

full on, but I didn't really think about it at the time. I just, I either drove my van or the car, out there, like the van that the company had or that they were not-for-profit, they were providing the service. I guess they had some government funding to do that service out there and things like that. And we sort of, I don't know, I don't ever remember doing a risk assessment, to be honest, which is probably, I mean, I'm not a very risk-averse person. Like when I was doing my bachelor's, I went over and spent quite a bit of time in Africa, volunteering for a while, and I've traveled a fair bit and stuff like that and probably done some things in hindsight that weren't maybe always considering all of the facets of where things might go.

But luckily I've come through it pretty fine. But yeah, we didn't really manage the risk. I mean, the best thing to manage your risk was to be respectful and being in good relationship with people, hey? Like I said to people out there who I'd grown up with, like because I was from a farming family and so a lot of our friends who were from out there were also on the land. And I can't even describe just like the level of divide in a 25 kilometre distance between Gundawendi and going out to Tumala and the level of poverty that people could experience.

I might as well have sometimes felt like I was just going to a different place on the planet. It was really drastic and just devastating to see. And the town where I grew up, they know sometimes, but they don't really understand what that means on a daily basis to live without access to things that you should have access to or access to just, yeah, like I guess basic living necessities and things sometimes that, yeah, we can take for granted in more metropolitan areas. And I think the harder thing for me to navigate was a lot of people didn't understand why I would want to work out there, a lot of people that I grew up with that had a lot of assumptions about what the work would be like and what the people would be like.

their assumptions were based not on knowing anybody or having direct experience necessarily, particularly not direct positive experiences because there's a lot of experiences that happen at the periphery of the community, I guess, and at the edges of things, but not many really direct relational connections. So, yeah, I guess the way I managed risk was I had a friend who I had grown up, who I'd grown up with their mum worked out there as a nurse and she'd been out there a really long time. And so she really supported me to connect with people out there. And I just used to go to the health centre with her and just be until I could kind of try and help people to feel safe enough with me and trust me enough to let me into their lives a little bit. And then it was

just lots of meeting people where they were at in the community and just going where they were okay with me visiting homes and stuff, community center, school. And then we ran a youth program as well. And the other thing, I mean, I have to also, which I should have definitely said at the beginning, once I got in there and there was another, there was also a youth worker who was working with me as the drug and alcohol council. So we initially did a lot of stuff together. But the two men who I worked with out there who were from the community, they were like, yeah, just amazing people. And they weren't with me all the time, but they definitely helped me meet people and build a sense of relationship with people out there and, yeah, help me feel a bit more accepted, I guess.

community to let me in. Because it's a tough go trying to do drug and alcohol counselling off the bat with people who don't know you when you are differently an outsider. For sure. I was reflecting with my student recently, actually it would have been during Reconciliation Week, around the fact that in high school I had very little, to my recollection anyway, understanding of First Nations issues or concepts or anything really. And then it was only really really once I kind of got to, not in my undergrad, even once I got to social work, we started touching on some of these concepts. But I feel as though your learning must have just come

so much more through experience than you could ever have gotten in a social work degree. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, definitely, because I was out there every day, day and day out, you know, for nearly two years. So, yeah. And the youth program that we ran every weekend on Friday nights, you know, it was like till 10 o'clock at night. So we had a big shit that we just, it was like kids would come and it was everyone from kind of like little, little to 18 or 20 kind of thing. And we would have two sort of movies, like one earlier one and one later one and one later one. And we'd do dinner for everyone and stuff like that. And I couldn't have done that without the guys who I was working with helping me for sure because it's pretty like, there's a lot of kiddos

that came and it was pretty full on, but it was also lots of fun. Yeah, really good. Are you still in touch with any of those services or individuals out there? Well, not very often. I still, if I go out there, I'll try and get in touch with them and visit and stuff, but I haven't been back home for quite a while, actually, for a fair few years since I, my dad moved from there. Like, we used to have a property out there and he doesn't live out there anymore. So I don't sort of have as many reasons to go back home as I used to.

But I would love to visit if I could down the track. I've got two toddlers, well, a three-year-old and a one-year-old at the moment, one and a half three and a half and so it doesn't really lend itself to just you know up me in the car yeah weekend trips easily away yeah not too often yeah oh man okay and when you then got into the masters of social work what were your placements did you get any sort of say as to what you were able to do based on your previous experience well i interviewed for a couple of placements the placements that you q offered were really great so the whole time during my master's I did residential youth work, which also sort of then lent itself to me

continuing, I guess, to, you know, move towards working as a trauma therapist. And that's also been a big part of my just learning, I guess, and it contributes a lot to how I show up, I guess, in therapy sessions and in what I do. I loved being a youth worker. Again, probably because I'm not too risk averse. It's a good thing in that context, not too much sort of rattles me, I guess, so that's handy. And it was really good to just do on the job kind of learning while I was doing my master's. And then while I was doing my master's, my placement, my first one was super helpful.

And I was really gunning for it with actually a student who ended up being a good friend during my master's. We're both there together at the Child Development Service at Kepera. And they are a pretty unique child development service. I mean, they're funded by Queensland Health. Social Work supervisor, Yanni, was amazing. She was a family therapist and an art therapist and social worker. And they ran a family therapy program where the pediatrician had also been trained in Milan

systemic family therapy. So they had the one-way mirrors and all of the stuff to provide family therapy to people accessing their child development service for assessments and intervention. So that was a great placement because it really helped me understand diagnostic formulation in multidisciplinary allied health teams. And also, Yanni had a really wonderful approach of being very professional and understanding and direct, I guess, in a good way,

like gave good direct feedback. And yeah, she just had a really containing kind of approach as a supervisor that was really helpful for me in sort of having someone to model sort of what social work really look like as a profession in that context, you know, like, because I, You hear of often what it looks like to be a psychologist, and I think in the media, when you think of mental health and development, you often hear about what psychologists might do, but not so much about what social workers might do. And so Yanni was a really amazing supervisor and mentor in that aspect that she really embodied like professional social work in a multidisciplinary team.

And she was very valued as a member of the team. Yeah. And then for my second placement, I actually did a placement abroad, which I sourced myself for the, Vancouver Association for Survivors of Torture. They had a service where they provided psychotherapy for survivors of torture and trauma from international communities, refugees who'd settled in Vancouver. And yeah, that was pretty amazing placement to do. They were all somatic, trained therapists, psychologists, one social worker. They had like an amazing little spot that was on the downtown east side of Vancouver where lots of the clients could just come and cook and just be together.

And so, yeah, that was really pretty great. And that was kind of probably my introduction into just understanding more about somatic psychotherapy and why it was so important in the trauma space. Yeah, so that was for six months that placement. And then I got a job with in Canada, actually, it's a bit different to hear. You've got to kind of have a master's of social work to be able. to work in hospital settings or in a lot of the more clinical settings. I think that is helpful in defining the profession but also limiting in other ways I

guess. So yeah, it sort of has, I don't know, I guess social work sometimes in Vancouver seemed a little bit like more well known for being this very, its own discipline, not the assumption that like child protection officers are social workers, which isn't always the case, which I'm sure child protection officers don't always like that assumption about them either, like it goes both But yeah, it was just a different space to work in being in an international setting. So yeah, then I worked with the BC Centre for Ability for a while on a specialist FILAR-C-Spectrum disorder program, which, yeah, it was really interesting and I really enjoyed

that. And then a province-wide brain injury program, coordinating therapies for young people that are across the state province that had had a brain injury, coordinating kind of remote teams of multidisciplinary therapists around the place. And that whole time I also worked as a year. youth worker while I was doing my placement. So I kept doing youth work stuff. Yeah, and also working at a women's refuge on the downtown east side of Vancouver. I don't know if many people listening would know much about the downtown east side of Vancouver, but it's like a, you might know that if you've

worked in substance misuse and that kind of setting because there's a lot of research done on the downtown east side of Vancouver, but it's very much a place where there's quite a condensed population of homeless people. I was working in the women's refuge there. It was the most low barrier women's refuge in the downtown east site. And so every night, it was actually a safe injecting site during the day. And then every night we would put all the cots and the bedding out and everything and then women would come. Did you know anybody in Canada before you moved over? Or did those people that you worked with just kind of become your family? Well, my husband is Canadian, but I didn't, I wasn't actually with him when I moved over there. I had.

I had dated him before I moved over there because he's part Canadian, part Australian, but then I moved to Vancouver. I didn't know anyone in Vancouver. And one of my friends and other student in my master's program, she was also doing a placement over there. So we lived together for the first like six months, I think, of my time there. And she came home after that and I stayed. Yeah, and then another friend moved over.

I think it's sort of the end of that time. And I actually found a Craigslist out and moved into another house. And the people whose home I moved into sort of became like second family for me. Their little girl ended up being, it makes me cry. Yeah, it's just kind of Canada was really important and just like very, I guess, just meant a lot to be over there and do the work that I did and also make family over there. And I miss them a lot. I think also the fact that you're over there dealing with some really heavy stuff and

that would make you reflect on your own upbringing and the community that you came from and levels of privilege and what you can do to support and then you're probably thinking how do I take these learnings back home but also what does this mean for me and what am I getting out of this and it's just such a rich environment and tapestry of all these people that are connecting together to make your experience what it was this sounds incredible and some lifelong relationships obviously that you've built yeah definitely like Penny and Peter who I lived with over there Penny is a psychologist and I met them through Craigslist like because I moved into their basement suite but then their little girl was our flower girl at our wedding like yeah so we are very

close to them still and my sister then came over and live with me over there for a while too which was cool she works in music and totally different to me like we're so different totally different industry and stuff I'd be working at a women's refuge and smit that was kind of dealing with artists who were demanding X one and Z on a private plane at this time of the ridiculous hour of the night or something. And I was just like, you know, struggling internally with the privilege of people when I was working in such a different space. But that wasn't at all to judge Samantha's work. Like her work was valuable within that creative space, but it's just sometimes I was such a challenge. Yes. And working at the women's refuge, because my shifts were overnight.

So I was up all night. Most of the times that I was working. it's just a huge eye open it like just crazy really yeah I actually have I had a note pop up from the women's refuge that I'd kept a picture of the other day actually it just reminded me of working there and it was just to have a space where women could come and feel um just not judged and genuinely cared for even when they you know had lots and lots of difficulties outside of that context obviously were homeless and lots of substance misuse issues but it was just a privileged to know that you were able to give people a safe place to be and a soft place to land kind of thing. Yeah. Quite a few women had rats as pets and their rats would just live in their

jackets. They would just like, rats are really good pets. I mean, I am a really, they are really good pets. And I've got clients who have rats as pets and just adore them. And they're very affectionate and stuff. And so like that would be their kind of tether to just connection, you know, and they would show up and check in and the rat would kind of just pop up. And out of their jacket on the counter. And like, it just challenged so many assumptions that I probably had, you know, just about where I came from and what was even just, I don't know, about hygiene and how you should live and all these silly things that you think you're not aware of as biases

that really show up and really show up and challenge you, which is helpful to be challenged about that stuff, hey. Yeah. I mean, rats are super clean. They clean and they're constantly and they don't smell like mice do. And they're so intelligent as well. Yeah, so yeah, it was just things, little things like that. And lots of women even came because they lived in such low socioeconomic housing

that they didn't have heating at nighttime. And so it was more about being warm, but they had a place to go in the daytime and things like that. But we let people bring pets. And so that was such a huge thing for lots of women who accessed it. Because if they couldn't bring their pet, they couldn't have had a bed because they wouldn't go somewhere without their pet. So that would have been so prohibitive for them.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's pretty interesting. Yeah. So you'd finished your degree by that point and you just didn't come home for graduation. You just stayed there. What was that period? Yes, I didn't come home for graduation. I mean, I went to my graduate. I'm not very sentimental. That's probably not something people would say about me. I'm not a very sentimental person. I did my undergrad graduation ceremony and I've got a photo of a cap and gown. So I was just kind of like, you know. That'll do. Yeah, that'll do. I love being in Vancouver. It was also kind of a pretty awesome time in my life in the sense of like my now. husband did end up moving to Vancouver and like 25 of our friends lived there at the time who he'd grown up with from kind of just he's from jasper in Alberta which is right in the rocky

mountains and a lot of his friends who became my very dear friends moved to Vancouver at the same time we were there so it was a pretty great five years nearly that we were all having a good time there and then yeah made some I made some also really good friends through youth work one of my managers I was her bridesmaid and went back over there a couple of years ago for that and visited again when we went last year to Canada. But we had some pretty wild time supporting some of our youth work clients that we used to work with them. Yeah, so it was good. And the FASD program that I worked in was really amazing and just really brought to the fore for me the importance of kind of understanding FASD as a neurodevelopmental diagnosis because it's really quite, it's obviously

very stigmatized but also not really well understood. understood within developmental services. Yeah. And so yeah, I really enjoyed that work. And then eventually then when I was over there, so I've grown up with horses. Like I've been on, I grew up on a farm and I've been on a horse since before I could walk. Like my dad used to put me on the front of his saddle when I was little when I was a baby. And I had a sense that you could do equine facilitated psychotherapy. And so I found the professional association for equine facilitated wellness over there. And they offered a certification in EFW.

So they have like a scope of practice driven certification where either you go down an airplane facilitated learning path or an airplane facilitated mental health path. And so I did that over sort of a year and a half while I was there on Vancouver Island and brought that back to Australia with me. That was sort of one of the reasons of moving back here was kind of all our horses are back here and it's kind of not that easy to find a place and horses costs a lot of money. Yeah. It wasn't that easy to find horses over there easily.

So I really wanted to do that work. It was really important to me. And so I came back here to be able to start my own and practice in that space. And was that fairly easy in terms of your husband's work? Could that translate easily? He was an electrician at the time. He's still an electrician now. He doesn't love being an electrician.

I think he'd probably be much better in some sort of human services space. But he did bring his electrical work over here. And I mean, it's lucky. that he's half Australian because he already had his Australian citizenship and stuff. So that's, yeah, definitely been a blessing. And he's become very acquainted with horses since. I mean, he grew up with horses as well a bit. So he knew a bit about horses.

But yeah, they're a big part of our life now, which is, yeah, a good thing. I think, you know, if I wasn't doing equine facilitated therapy, I probably would have burnt out, I think, a little bit by now, just because it just gives me a day of the week where it doesn't feel like work. Yeah. And do you have a good relationship with a service nearby that offers that? How does that work? Oh, yeah, no, we offer, I offer it from my home. So our horses, yeah, they're out there. So now I offer it from my neighbor's place because our bosses are in her paddicks, but she's really amazing. And she's just a retired GP, and she's been super helpful and supportive. So we offer it out at Sanford. Yeah, just one day a week at the

moment because I'm in the clinic here at the practice two days a week doing clinical stuff and one day a week doing practice management stuff so I'm just doing equine therapy one day a week which is good so I used to support a lovely lady who'd had a traumatic brain injury working as a stable hand actually in her 20s was kicked in the head by a horse very unfortunately obviously catastrophic changed her life still loves horses regardless of how her injury occurred but you know you go to her and she's got horses all over her room. And at a point, we were able to actually facilitate and introduce her to equine therapy. This lady is nonverbal.

She uses a laminated keyboard on a piece of paper, basically, to point to letters to spell out words. The only time we've ever heard her speak is when she's working with the horses. And the only time we've ever seen her stand voluntarily, she'll stand if you ask her, but voluntarily, she'll grab the saddle and she'll pull herself up. and she'll groom the horse, she'll talk to the horse. And it's just so incredibly beautiful to watch. I think the power of equine therapy, unless you've seen it firsthand, even I feel like people should YouTube.

You've probably got some videos that you can send my way. But it's just such an incredibly powerful and important therapeutic tool. So maybe you can talk a little bit more to how you use it. Yeah, I mean, I sort of use it in a, there's some different schools of thought out there with equine facilitated therapy, as there is with kind of every therapy out there. some people kind of take a life skills approach or that's sort of more equine facilitated learning, you know, if it's around life skills and coaching and stuff.

Equine assisted therapy can sort of slightly differ. I mean, the way that I was taught is that the horse is kind of a sentient being in a co-facilitator. And so that was really important, you know, like recognizing that horses have choice and can express themselves through their actions. And I mean, as co-facilitator, obviously the horse doesn't know it's a therapy session. You know, Oz is pretty non-pathologising in that sense, which is half the beauty of it for sure and makes it a lot more accessible to people whom talk therapy stuff just hasn't worked for them. A lot of the work that I do is kind of integrating somatic approaches, you know, body-based

psychotherapy approaches, lots of stuff around nervous system regulation. And then I also integrate just all of the other therapy tools that I have into the sessions. whilst the main feature of the therapy sessions is really exploring relationship through being with the horses. Yeah. And then I guess, you know, you can explore kind of relationship has so many different facets. You know, the main thing that we kind of often work with is a lot around connection and boundaries and congruence, you know, showing up as you are, not pretending to be something

else. Yeah. It was sort of explained to me like, because, horses are a prey animal, they have to be able to kind of, you know, sense into the intentions of the predator coming in their space. We are a predator at the end of the day. Yeah. And so if you kind of show up like pretending you're not feeling the way you're feeling, horses often don't know how to read that. And they'll usually kind of keep some distance from you or just it's harder for them to connect with you. My guess is they don't seem to feel very comfortable when we show up and

say, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, and on the inside, we're not fine at all. Yeah. You know, we're either anxious as hell or we're frustrated or we're really sad or something like that. And then we're putting on a front to say it's all good. And then the horse will just sort of, yeah, very much keep their distance. It depends too on the horse, you know, because each horse has different own personality. Like I've got one horse and she's very much, you know, the lead mayor and another one who I've got two mares and a pony that I work with and my dad where I used to practice out of my dad's farm near Bo Desert and he's got like 60 horses but I've just got three now. So I had a few more to work with back then. Yeah, I mean,

it really depends on how they show up in the session and what they want to bring as well. Like my lead mayor, Tiny, she's very good at holding space for grief. Definitely, I mean, if I could embody her energy in my human life, I think I would have found some peace and, you know, I don't know, just security in my way of being because she's sort of got this way of just showing up that just is very, I don't know, she's kind and gentle but strong, not too bothered, is able to connect but has good boundaries, asks for what she needs, but not in an enmeshed way, you know, and ice cream, the little pony, he's kind of so funny, like, he just cannot stand my dad, he doesn't like my husband at all. Like often will kind of be on the opposite.

side of the paddock to strong masculine energy for whatever reason. Yeah, well. And then if I have young kiddos that show up who have autism, and like most of the time I work with my horses, they're not on a halter. So they just can choose where they want to be. And ice cream will just show up and just be right next to the kiddos every time. Like he just wants to be there.

And for kids with ASD who are having sort of social communication challenges and relationship challenges and things like that sometimes or just, you know, they're trying to seek connection and sometimes the way they're trying to connect might not be understood by other people having a little force that's choosing to be with them and choosing he could be anywhere else in the 100 metre square paddock that is in but he's choosing to be right there is pretty powerful you don't really have to do much beyond that you know there's less doing which is nice yeah it sounds as though a lot of that funding might come through NDIS or something similar

or are they private fee-paying people? Mostly NDIS and Medicare, because I get Medicare rebates as a mental health social worker. So I integrate other, you know, like, air-quine therapy isn't on the Medicare intervention list. Yeah. But I integrate CBT and narrative therapy and solution-focused therapy and I do EMDR.

Like, I integrate all of those modalities into what I'm doing. You know, mindfulness, coping strategies. There's a lot of mindfulness that happens. I always do a grounding before we go into it. a session with the horses. And do you find that there's been more acceptance and support from NDIS of late through equine therapy? I mean, they're supportive of animal assisted therapies because they can't argue against the evidence. Equine therapy, I don't think they're really specifically, from what I understand, they don't really say that they fund equine therapy.

They'll fund animal assisted therapies. Equine therapy falls under that branch. I sort of get the hesitation, though. I mean, with equine therapy, it is a whole other level of risk, you know, know that you're employing in therapy. And there's a lot of, for one of a better word, cowboys out there who say they're equine therapists and they're not really therapists. You know, they might have some qualifications and certifications, but they're not, I guess the thing with equine therapy is too, it does tend to attract people with more complex presentations at times because other therapies haven't worked for them. A good reason. You know, clinical settings can be really restrictive and not be able to work to people's strengths.

And so, yeah, I do understand, sort of with regards to kind of clinical outcomes and supporting best practice and being really trauma-informed, it can be a bit of a minefield out there with who's actually a eco-acilitated therapist and then what the difference is between that and learning and when people know what's within their scope of practice and what's not. Like I've been with horses since my, like, literally my whole life. And I have like a pretty complex history with horses. you know my granddad died off a horse my uncle's a quadriplegic because of a horse accident so like

horses are a massive part of my family culture on both sides but there's also a lot of trauma associated with them so i'm very not naive to the the idea that horses can hurt us you know pretty easily like they're a big animal it doesn't have to be intentional but they're a big animal so when you're bringing that into the therapy space it adds a level of you know extra awareness and presence that you have to have so you shouldn't be doing it kind of like of willy-nilly or just half kind of knowing what you are doing. Being around horses is second nature and I've still had accidents and knee and misses and, you know, I fell off a horse life weekend when I was right. And do you train, you said you train as well? Is that training horses or training yourself?

I mean, I compete in other stuff with horses. I have a bit off that at the moment just because I've got toddlers and there's not enough time in the day for everything. But yeah, I do some supervision for equine facilitated therapy stuff and might do some teaching in it down the track and stuff with just colleagues and connections, but first and foremost trying to get therapy well off the ground. Not that it's not off the ground,

but there's always new chapters and evolving things with private practice in that space. So yeah. Tell me about your practice. You provide allied health services. It's at the intersection of trauma, neurodivergence and mental health.

What does it look like? and how did you bring the game together? Well, most of us connected first initially at Evolve therapeutic services up in Queensland. There's a specialist service within Queensland health for children who are in care of child protection and have complex developmental trauma. So I worked there for six years. I was like the newest member of the team sort of by the time we moved on. But a lot of people had been there for a really long time.

but we all had a pretty solid six years together there providing therapy to kiddos with complex trauma, doing systemic intervention alongside individual therapy. To be fair, I actually got pretty burnt out in that space. Like, I found the systemic problems within the child protection system very difficult to manage. And I think left it a little bit heartbroken, probably, to be honest. My team that I worked with was amazing. My team leader was exceptional. It was an awesome time to be in that space of working together.

But I think when I had kiddos, it really shifted my lens. Like you can be a therapist for children and then you can be a therapist for children who has your own kids. Like when you have your own kids, it's a different ballgame because there's so much more countertransference and stuff that goes on. Hey, like it's just a lot different. And so those systemic injustices of working with the child protection system and And seeing the kids that I was working with being harmed by the system that they had been brought into was really tough sometimes.

There's a lot of good child safety officers and good work that happens there, you know, and people really trying their best. But the system is very broken. You can't get around that. That is what it is. And the youth justice system is really tough too. And a lot of the kiddos we worked with, you know, we're at the tertiary end of that system. You know, the kids with the most complex mental health stuff with complex trauma coming to evolve. So a lot of kiddos ending up within the youth justice system as well and that being pretty devastating, seeing their experiences.

And Kim, my co-director here at Therapy World and Business Partner, she's a mental health speech pathologist. They're like few and far between speeches and specialised in mental health. And she, while working and Evolve, also worked at Brisbane Youth Detention Centre for a long time. And similarly, got kind of burnt out, you know, like seeing kiddos that we sort of knew had really, really, tough histories of really severe trauma then being pretty harshly treated by staff within BYDC when they were, you know, when the young people were escalated and things like that. And just seeing that that was very retramatizing for kids, but that the services also didn't feel like they had any other options for managing and supporting young people.

So it's very, it's a really hard space. And I think Kim and I were actually brought together by a client who, yeah, traditionally. talk therapy stuff hadn't worked for them. They're a non-binary young person with a trauma history because their parent had passed away. And then they had a diagnosis of ASD and they were a trans young person. And so Kim referred them to me for equine facilitated therapy

because they loved animals and because talk therapy hadn't really been accessible because they often lost their words with their autism. Yeah. And then from connecting with that client, we just really gelled. And so Kim and I started therapy well with the hope that we could,

I guess also what we saw. sort of saw with the client who brought us together was just that there's a lot of siloed treatment out there and a lot of places where, you know, everyone kind of stays in their lane or their discipline. People say they're multidisciplinary and that they're collaborative, but to do that well is hard. And we had had the privilege of working at a vol first and seeing it done well in a government context. And so, you know, we really wanted to be able to offer a holistic service here where we were able to, yeah, just see the whole picture and be able to collaborate with our colleagues who are in different disciplines or bring something.

Understand that none of us are the expert in the room, the client's the expert in their own life and, you know, we're kind of coming alongside them on the journey, trying to hold hope for them and bring together a clear picture, doing lots of advocacy. Yeah. It's funny because like lots of people, lots of other disciplines, I think, have said to me in my work with them, like, well, I'm a psychologist. but I'm a social worker at heart, or I'm a speech pathologist, but I'm a social worker when I advocate. And so they, you know, they really resonate with like the role of social workers

as like the people who are doing the advocacy and who think systemically and who, yeah, really hold that person in environment lens. Does supervision look different for you than you providing supervision to different allied health professions than if you were just providing supervision to social workers, do you think? Yeah, I guess so. It like it definitely looks different. I mean, I probably comment it from like that mental health clinician lens after working in that Queensland health setting. So because we did quite a bit of interdisciplinary supervision there and a lot of systemic supervision there. So we do probably more supervision a lot around like systemic case formulation

and kind of biosyncocial formulations of cases trying to understand the family system a lot. And so when I'm working with my colleagues here and providing supervision around that sort of stuff, that's the lens that I'm coming from it at, which is social work, but then my practice frameworks very much social work in the sense of my values base and my like importance on understanding people's right to self-determination and human rights and understanding them as a person who lives in a context, you know, in their ecosystem. and that there's not much value in pathologising an individual when there's obviously so many reasons why people,

when they come through the door here, are at the point they're at, you know, it's definitely not about them being just an individual in a box. And a diagnosis, I mean, that's also probably a shared lens that we have is like diagnoses are helpful ways of understanding parts of what a person brings, but they're by no means a summary of what. a person brings to a session, they definitely can even be height limiting if they're not understood within the wider context, yeah, of a person's life. Yeah. What support do you need then in terms of you're balancing a business, you've got your own workflow, you're supporting staff in context

of your own experience of burnout and just having a family that need you and are demanding of you? Yeah. Good question. I mean, you're like right at the cross-references. roads of all of that coming together. I get fortnightly supervision slash mentoring from my amazing teacher, Kate, who taught me over in Canada during my equine facilitated psychotherapy training. She's a master's level social worker. She's in her late 60s, early 70s or something. And she's just, yeah, she's a somatic psychotherapist. She's trained in sensory motor psychotherapy and Hacomni. And she's, she's, yeah, just a very wise woman. So I connect with her a lot. That gives me space just to unpack

what's going on. I mean, like Kate says, you know, like, yes, we all have parts and we show, different parts of ourselves show up in different ways. Like I don't bring my whole self necessarily. My manager self shows up mostly when I'm in my therapeutic role, you know, at work. My parents self shows up sometimes. But Kate sort of when I'm doing supervision, I am me. You know, I bring me to work. So it's that very humidistic. sort of lens of like we are ourselves in what we do and that's why we do what we do too, you know, like that's why we choose to do what we do because it is part of self-expression. I mean, therapy when it's done well is like an art form, hey, because if you can do it well,

I mean, I'm not there yet, but if you can do it well, it's like you see transformation in the moment, which is pretty special and that's the reason I do it just because people, yeah, I mean, they're amazingly resilient and yeah, sometimes I just like can't play people still standing, but they are. And so it's inspiring to see that. And not to minimize, like, you know, what people have been through to say, oh, what's really inspiring. Like, I know lots of people that I see wouldn't choose what's happened by any means. But they're still carrying on despite all of that. And so I think that helps me to get through. And I think also, though, you know, like, it's a constant process of me trying to reflect on how to find balance and live with congruence. It's hard trying to balance

that and run a practice and have a clinical caseload. I'm also not very good at saying no, so I tend to say yes and fit people in when I shouldn't. And because I've got ADHD, I can be a bit timeblind and very bad at managing my calendar. I should sort of be banned. I think my practice manager is about to ban me from managing my own calendar. My clients are very tolerant of me, but yes, sometimes I book in appointments but forget to follow the step of actually putting them in my calendar so then they show up and it's like you know so I have to get better at that and live with more congruence but I've learned that it's not a process of like all or nothing thinking in that space doesn't help me to find balance I need it's like dialing down the volume like tweaking it just little bit by a little bit you know

where I can because I think I used to kind of be like well one day like I'll have this perfect sort of clinical caseload and you know I'll see five clients a day and And currently I see seven a day, which I don't recommend. And I'm trying to dial it down. But yeah, I sort of had this idea that, you know, I'll be, I'll be so Zen. I'll be a Zen mom. I'll be a Zen therapist. I'll be a Zen practice owner.

Like, this is going to be great because I do quite like being quite connected to Buddhism throughout my studies. I studied at uni for a bit. I touch into it quite a lot. It sort of helps me, you know, just reorient myself. And so I had these ideas of what that would look like. And now I've learned that even that is still all or nothing. thinking and another pressure to add to myself. And so I've learnt definitely that it's just about

kind of dialing down gradually as I can what I can. So just little things like I said to Kate actually I saw her today and I was like I just am creating a low stimulation diet for myself, which is like not having the music on in the car all the time. Like just have the background noise of whatever or like my sister calls me a vampire. At nighttime I have like pretty much all the lights off in our house and I like to shower in the dark. It's little things like that or have a bath in the dark. It's little things like that that sort of stopped me getting burnt out. And then the horses really help orient me.

And just they hold space for me, you know, like because for them, again, it's not a therapy session. They're just holding space for the people that are right there with them. So they are also holding space for me as a therapist. Yeah. And I find that incredibly resourcing. And to be out in nature while I'm doing therapy is incredibly resourcing as well. And it sounds like you really want to be.

in the moment with your horses because they will, as you said, notice when you're scattered, when you're not mentally there, when you're not emotionally there. So you feel like you owe it to them to be completely in the moment. I think that's really special that you can do that. Yeah, definitely. Yep. And I mean, horses are pretty good at helping you notice when you're not in the moment as well. Yeah, they'll do something. Kind of brings your attention back in. Yeah. I don't really know what else I can do with regards to sort of It's tough at the moment, I think, probably for many different social workers out there in different ways, because just like everyone, you know, you're trying to show up as your best self at work and at home. And it is a profession where you do have to bring a lot of yourself to the role, you know, like if your heart's not in it, in social work's kind of hard to do it well, isn't it?

Yeah. It's very much a heart-centered job. And yeah, there's all those systemic contexts that place monetary values on things that might not feel like they're reflective of what. what we were truly doing sometimes, which is, yeah, you're just always trying to balance all that stuff. But that's just the work, I think, and it's just always, for me, I guess I notice, because I do have toddlers and toddlers are wonderful, also like horses bring you into the present moment, but also very challenging. So I notice when I feel like I have a less felt sense of capacity in my nervous system, you know, my window of tolerance is narrower with my kiddos.

it's a good lesson to me to pause and kind of slow down at work. And so then I tend to take a mental health day here and there when I can just to go a little bit steady. I'm also someone who kind of tends to take on quite a bit at once. Definitely sounds like it. Yeah. Have there been any changes in this area over time, anything systemic, any little wins that help keep you motivated, to keep you on track. Yeah.

You know, I think one thing that has really helped me stay on track is, again, sort of comes back to Kate really. She one day sort of said to me like, you know, we can either have a mind like a fox or a mind like the sky. When you're in that fox mind, you know, you're so focused on the thing that you're moving toward or the thing that you're trying to figure out or problem you're trying to solve. And then it's hard to hold space for the whole sky because you can only see that.

And so that alongside like the fact that I see clients across the lifespan, you know, like my youngest client, I don't know, is six at the moment, but my oldest is like maybe 56 or something. I've worked with really tricky cases in that space that evolve and here and touched in and out of cases. Like I've had a few clients who have stayed with me for a long time. But what helps me is not necessarily the individual sort of wins. there have definitely been moments like that where it's like, yeah, awesome, something's slanted. But I so take that approach that like I'm not the expert in the room, you know, like that is not my prerogative to be the one who fixes your life.

And I think when I was younger, I used to think that was my job. It's not my job. And so having clients who have survived complex PTSD, you know, have had really difficult upbringings and are adult clients and accessing the supports they need now and knowing for a little kiddo look you know there's all these things that are happening for you and I can be a piece of providing some potentially you know safe attachment relationship in an appropriate sort of therapeutic context you know reparative relationship therapeutic intervention but I don't have to solve all the problems then and there because I have clients who are amazingly resilient just off their own bat like

They've figured out how to get to life through life. And then they've come to me at 40 or 50 or whatever or, you know, another client who I've been seeing for a number of years. And she kind of touches in and touches out of things. And she's, you know, creating her own life for herself and gradually figuring out what feels good for her and what she wants her life to be like. And so I think that helped me take the pressure off having to fix and think that I was the one who had to solve the problems in the room.

And so systemically that helps me just to hold that broader context. and try and have that more mind like sky that can hold it all. Because if I'm too distressed by someone's distress or I'm too focused on trying to solve their problem, it's not really helpful. Yeah. I feel like everyone needs a Kate in their life. Is that fair?

Oh, yeah. Kate is honestly amazing. Like I can't even, yeah, to have an older woman who, you know, for me, the fact that she is a very strong feminist is really, that resonates with me very much. you know like she lectures on treating sexual assault and things like that around the world actually and she's very much involved in advocacy for indigenous people back over there and she's also

a nature-based therapist and so she's yeah she's just amazing she definitely provides me with the slowing down that i need yeah to be encouraged to do did you end up getting your canadian citizenship as well no i can get my residency i don't have my canadian citizenship i can get residency because I'm married to a Canadian, I can kind of get it and come and go as I please, which I haven't done yet, but I do need to do it because at some point we might go over and sort of live there for a little while again and do the Canadian thing. That was going to be my next question. Yeah, what are your opportunities over there, given that you kind of do have connections

already in the equine space? I don't know, really. Like, I mean, I could sort of work in a few different places, I guess, but if I was going to go over there, it would be more about being with people who we love than it would be about my work opportunities. It'd be more about giving the kids a felt sense of being in Canada. Canada's got something different to Australia. Like Australia is a little bit hard and fast sometimes. I feel like, you know, that might be a judgment call on my behalf. But like Canadians just go a little steadier and they're a little, I don't really know how to describe it, but they're a little

less full on in some ways. And so like Australia's are laid back, but Canadians are like have a gentler edge. And so there's a soft. that is quite soothing over there that I find, yeah. You're just going to have to get used to the cold. My friends have just come back from visiting family there and we're still snowing in summer. We went actually for four months last year. When I had Atlas is my son, Meyer is my daughter.

And when I had Atlas, we flew to Canada when he was six weeks and one day old. Wow. Yeah. You like a challenge, don't you? Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I was like, what do you think you're doing, Brooke? Anyway, I seemed to get through it. But we got on the plane and got off and it was nice because it was kind of going into autumn

and it was, you know, an edge season there. So it kind of gently kind of moved us into winter. But there was one week in Jasper. Sometimes Jasper where Sage is from, Sage is my husband. It's the coldest place on earth some days of the year. And it was like a week where it was minus 40. And I had a baby and a toddler and trying to get a toddler dressed for the snow. is so full on every day.

By that point, they're a beach ball, right? Oh, and they just like, there was a day, not the minus 40 days, but there was a day where I was like, I'm not putting my pants on, I'm not putting my jacket on. And I was like, okay, mate, like, this is how cold it is. And I put her outside in the snow to like feel like, dude, it's this cold. Like if you're gonna be arguing, like, that's how cold it is.

You can go outside, it's this cold. And then it took three times of putting her in the snow before she finally agreed like, okay, like I do need to put my pants and my jacket on. Just in the snow and a nappy. I mean, I don't know if that's good parenting. But the Canadians were like, what? And I was like, well, it was that or just fight her to put the things on.

You know, she wasn't going to freeze. Like we bought her straight back inside. They're trying to reason with a two year old. Yeah. Touched her feet in the snow and then brought her back inside. No, I still don't want to touch her feet. So I won't. Third time, she was like, okay, I get it now.

I was like, yay. See? But yeah. So I don't think I want to go back for a, a winter until the kids can dress themselves. That's fair. And until they can walk themselves, probably. Yeah, totally.

Yeah, yeah. So, but we would like to go back and stay over there for a bit at some point. Good to have the option as well. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks as though you've got some exciting programs and projects happening at therapy well. Do you want to talk to some of those? Yeah.

We offer group, tabletop role playing sessions, therapy sessions, which have been really amazing. Jack, one of our psychologists here, is training Game to Grow. And so it's pretty special. It offers a space for neurodivergent youth and young adults to come together. Jack runs a couple of groups that have been really amazing, like just being the difference between people not getting out of their house and not having friends to getting out of their house and having friends.

Young people who are selectively mute with their autism, them who now are able to socialise and chat with their friends. Jack takes people out to dinner at the end of the term and things like that. And, you know, the clients that access that have ASD and DID and complex trauma and lots of stuff going on. But it's been really special to be able to sort of facilitate a space where they're able to come and just enjoy the group, be themselves, also have, you know, therapeutic input because it's scaffolded and very well supported.

And there's learning through those processes of navigating social relationships and things like that. And same for the teenagers. It's been awesome. Yeah, they love it. Like everyone keeps signing up for the groups and again, which is really good. And then we've had social space adventures, which is sort of informed by social thinking from Michelle Garcia. When I'm a colleague, Kim, she's one of the few people kind of clinically trained by the social thinking program in the state. She went and did the clinical training in Boston.

And so social thinking informs a lot of what Kim does. as a mental health speech pathologist. So we have a group for that. So group programs have been a big part of what we do here. We also have mentors, which are disability support workers. We call them mentors because I guess for us, the lens of mentor kind of has a connotation of kind of coming alongside in a way that feels therapeutically informed

and purposeful. Like the mentors that we connect with the clients here, they connect with the therapists and try and support implementation of therapy goals and things like that. So because they're with the clients a lot more than we are as therapists. And so and they're out in the community with clients and at their homes and real life stuff. And so that's really equally important part of what we might do in sort of an hour therapy session once a fortnight or something.

Yeah. So our mentors have been amazing. They all kind of have a bachelor in some human services kind of field or science field. And so that's been a really meaningful part of what we offer here. And then I do obviously echo on therapy as part of therapy well. got OTs and speech pathologists and psychologists. I'm the only social worker here at the moment, actually. I'm sure down the track will get more social workers.

I'm trying to think of any other programs that we have. Groups, yeah, yeah, mentors. That's a lot, especially for a company that's still developing, right? Sounds like you've got plans to expand further if you can. Yeah, hopefully. And I think, you know, just trying to, the pace of sort of growth and change is slow and then fast, I think, like it's, you kind of reach a tipping point and then you kind of go into the next chapter and that's what we've sort of done. Because when Kim and I first started therapy

well, we both still worked at Queensland Health. So we both had two jobs and we're trying to start a practice. And I was pregnant with a toddler and she has grown up, you know, so we're at different life stages, which is very helpful. And then it sort of becomes like a little bit of a second home for some people because lots of clients have multiple family members who access a service here so you know we have snacks in the fridge all the time and a draw full of snacks and tea and coffee and everything that people can just access it any time some of our clients kind of water our plants and you know just make themselves at home which is nice yeah so yeah but we I guess sort of moving forwards if there's ever any people who are listening out there and want to

you know get in touch or collaborate or or touch base and hear about what we're doing they're more than welcome to contact me or yeah get in touch for our website Yeah, I'll put a link to therapy well, obviously in the show notes, but are there any other resources that you think people should check out if they want to know more about the space that you work in or what you do? Could even be looking at concepts of attachment and trauma or family therapy, anything like that. One thing I would say is I use Tara Brax rain meditation all the time. I don't know if you've ever heard of that one, but yeah, yeah, yeah, she's got a good podcast,

and I find that light rain for difficult times, you know, the recognises allow, investigate and nurture. That guided meditation is, I mean, a great resource for me, but also a resource that I often share with clients just so they can have that gentle accompaniment while they're trying to explore what's going on for them when they're at home. We definitely use a really attachment-informed framework here and systemic family kind of framework in the way that we practice. There's actually, I can probably send you the link to it, but

There's a really good article on working in that sort of neurodevelopmental mental health context and the art of diagnostic formulation that I've always carried with me. I mean, it's sort of a specific resource. I think sometimes it's helpful to have those resources that like if you're trying to get started in social work practice in mental health and in a therapy setting, that sort of way of formulating from a multidisciplinary allied health perspective can be helpful to understand. So I can send that, share that with you. And then I guess, yeah, I mean, I'm trained in in DDP, diatic developmental psychotherapy. It's from Dan Hughes from America,

but that kind of informed a lot of what I did at evolve and still informs a lot of what I do now because a lot of what I do is parent and child work. And I'm also trained in therapy, which I've found has just been, yeah, an amazing resource for me, both as a therapist and as a parent. It's been amazing to do TheraPlay. And my trainer through that, who I still get supervision with Kate is an OT. And yeah, she's just another Kate that's also a woman in her late 60s or something, but also just a phenomenal person. And yeah, she's just been a really, really great teacher for me.

I guess that's probably the biggest message. You know when it comes to resourcing yourself, like surround yourself with good people who know what they're doing and have or seem to know what they're doing a little bit more than you and have long life experience, you know, like reach out to mentors. It's very helpful to do that. And don't be afraid to ask for help, you know, like that's also a really important thing. You're like, you're not supposed to have it all figured out. I mean, I don't.

And then I guess, yeah, Pat Ogden's work, I find extremely helpful. And I've done some of her workshops when she's come to Australia. Also, because my teachers have been trained by her. So that probably aligns with just where I come from, kind of trying to take that somatic approach to psychotherapy. Yeah, I don't know. many other resources. Dan Siegel's stuff we use all the time here for sure, you know, the whole brain child and that sort of thing. And then with regards to kind of, I guess the other

thing I would say to social workers out there and whoever else might be listening, it might not just be social workers. I'm making an assumption there, but is the more you can figure out the way your own nervous system is wired and what your own window of tolerance looks like. You know, you can do that through lots of different ways, you know, understanding somatic psychotherapy. Experiencing therapy, I mean, if you're going to be a therapist and never go to therapy, I think that's kind of a bit of a naive attitude to have because, you know, you need to go and work out your own stuff in therapy at some point if you're going to be a therapist. That's important. And so, yeah, understanding your own nervous system and how you show up, the horses have been probably my biggest teacher in that aspect.

Yeah. That's so incredible. I'll find those resources and I'll put them all in the show notes. But is there anything else before we finish up that you wished we'd talked about? or anything else you want to mention about your experience? No, I don't think so. I don't think I have any other things that I really wanted to share with you. I think it's definitely helpful to try and find a mentor and then just continue on the journey of trying to learn as much as you can all the time. That's what keeps it enjoyable, really.

And you feel like you've got nothing left to learn. Yeah, what's the point? Yeah, exactly. You may as well tie up your boots and go home. Yeah, exactly. I feel like that continuous learning has been really evident and everything you've talked about right from that early community work you were doing, showing you people's intergenerational resilience and the trauma that they've been through that

really significant trauma, being able to build those relationships and develop trust and having that respectful approach to supporting people and really learning on the job. I keep saying to people, the social work degree is a foundation, but you cannot possibly know even just 10% of it. of what you need to know once you step into a job. So much of that is learning in the work you're doing and learning from the people that you're supporting even. And you have the opportunity to work in the field

while you're on placement, even, which I also recommend to people if there's a way of doing that. And look, maybe the changes that are coming about through the budget will enable some people to do that. If they're having to study full-time, do their placement, having to give up other work, maybe they can then look at even volunteering or something that will get them additional experience in the field.

They keep hopping on in uni about practice informing theory and vice versa, but it's so true. It's so much of a rich learning opportunity to be able to be doing something in the field while you're working on the theory. I think it makes it substantially less dry. Oh, yeah, totally. And like for me, like, I could never have understood to the degree that I do, you know, and I'm still not perfect at it by any means.

I don't understand everything I can about it. what it meant for trauma to really impact children and young people on every day, you know, in their nervous system. And then for me, figuring out what was going to be co-regulating for them, you know, if I didn't do youth work while I was doing my masters, that was such an invaluable experience to me. Not only because I, like, it absolutely prevented me from minimising the experience of foster carers, because I actually knew what it was like to try and live in with young people who had complex trauma. But like, I had to get really creative about what was going like get me out the front door with them on the day like you know it was like the thing that made the

difference was morning dance parties like that was the thing that got us out the door without like everyone kind of you know having a meltdown or whatever and like because that connected us and it gave us you know something to work towards those sort of things and so i think that felt sense experience like you just that's what cultivating your nervous system for this work is about it's like you show up because you've got all the experiences you hold you know loaded in there so you have to seek those experiences and you have to kind of be brave learning only happens at the edge you can't just stay in your comfort zone and it's easy to stay in your comfort zone you know when you're just reading stuff and thinking about things but that's not going to teach you really like it'll teach you but

you know you won't integrate the learning in an embodied way so it's the ways that you kind of have those experiences that really challenge you to be with people in their distress yeah and then hold space for that and co-regulate them that's the goal Speaking of dance parties, I was in Melbourne recently and there were groups of people that were travelling through the city with headphones on and a leader and very brightly dressed, wearing whatever they wanted to and they were dancing through the street listening to whatever they were collectively listening through on their headphones. Some of them were singing, some of them were dancing. And I just thought, what a great opportunity to get people out who otherwise wouldn't feel comfortable,

wouldn't be able to go out in a group even. Just thought that was so cool. I've never seen anything like it in Sydney. I don't know if you've encountered anything in Queensland. No, that's amazing. That's so good. Yeah. I didn't bother looking it up,

but I should actually just see what that's all about. What they were doing. It was an organised thing. It wasn't just people randomly mobbing the city. How good. Yeah, that'd be unreal. One of the best experiences I had in Vancouver. I mean, I'm very much into music.

My husband, DJs. We go to festivals and a lot more before kids. but we will go to more, you know, been to festivals overseas and stuff. And one of the best things I ever did in Vancouver was the bike rave. They used to have a bike rave there and so everyone, like thousands of people would get dressed up and then everyone tunes into the same radio station. And people have like boom boxes on their bikes and like on their rack and all they're dragging a trailer and some people are rollerblading and they like the whole seawall of Vancouver becomes this massive bike rave

of people all like gradually moving along in fliro and luts and clothes sticks and all the rest of it's so good. but I mean, yeah, dance is definitely therapeutic for the soul. If you ever want to get out and do no lights, no like, or I highly recommend it. I love that so much. We need that here. Yes. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciated it. And thank you so much for sharing. You've clearly had some amazing mentors, even right from your early experience as a student. And you've developed lifelong friends and colleagues through that.

And I feel like you're putting so much of yourself. into your work. You're holding space for people, but you're also using what you know. So it's what you're familiar with is that equine facilitated therapy, being creative and meeting people's needs and identifying what's going to have the most benefit. Also to the funding bodies, you're having to demonstrate those benefits to them and show the evidence and now developing your practice in a way that's really genuine and consistent with your professional and personal values. So, yeah, I think people can learn a lot from that and hopefully get excited about how they can be creative in their own work. Yeah, it's a cool career to get into for sure. There's lots

of opportunities out there and yeah, definitely. It's an awesome space to be in. Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. I love that you could do this and love that we could connect and yeah, look forward to seeing how it goes. Thanks. I'll talk to you down the track note out. Stay in touch. Yeah, for sure. See you later. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Brooke, please visit my anchor. a page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like

to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Sid, who has experience in rehab consulting and counseling for police officers returning to the workforce following physical and mental injuries, and more recently supporting veterans to connect with necessary supports on retirement from service. In her early years of social work, Sid has discovered a deep passion for engaging with and supporting individuals navigating PTSD and mental health challenges. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you next time.