Social Work Spotlight - Episode 121: Rey

Episode Date: October 25, 2024

In this episode I speak with Rey, an emerging social worker from a culturally and linguistically diverse background, dedicated to supporting families, children, and young people. She currently specialises in assisting families impacted by the criminal justice system and also serves as a casual university social work supervisor. Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Their Futures Matter (NSW Audit Office) - https://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/our-work/reports/their-futures-matterTransforming Justice Australia - https://www.transformingjustice.org.au/GambleAware - https://www.gambleaware.org/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RTEirXjQIgNYsZLNSJS7nvp9XOzgGacbwJk0GaFGNx0/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasmin Lupus, and today's guest is Ray, an emerging social worker from a culturally and linguistically diverse background, dedicated to supporting families, children, and young people. She currently specializes in assisting families impacted by the criminal justice system, and also serves as a casual university social work supervisor. Ray is deeply committed to the significance of lived experiences, recognising the challenges of burnout and vicarious trauma and the impact of systems and policies on both workers and their clients. Welcome Ray to the podcast. Thanks for coming today to meet with me and looking forward to hearing about your experience. Thanks for having me.

Firstly, when did you begin as a social worker and what brought you to the profession? So I pretty much graduated from a master's of social work at a Shown Catholic University here in Sydney. and that was around, so I started in 2020 and then finished obviously the end of 2021. I guess the reason I became a social worker, there are a lot of reasons. I feel like I was kind of destined to be a social worker. So this all happened, I guess, in my senior years of high school. Around, you know, year 11, year 12, a lot of, you know, I was experiencing a lot of family dysfunction in my own family.

And that kind of led to DCJ, or otherwise known as, facts at the time involvement and I remember I encountered as a part of like I guess my case encountered social workers through that I think for me around that time I had a social worker from the local community health and she I guess she was one of the reasons why I got into social work just her level of humility empathy during a very difficult time was I guess it was very life-changing for me because I felt very ice-like during those years. I think as well, there are other events in my life as well that have led me down this path. I mean, my career's advisor back in high school did kind of steer me into

the social work profession as well as like, yeah, just people I met during my bachelor's degree. My bachelor's is a Bachelor of Social Basin Policy at UNSW and I remember one of the social work lecturers, tutors, I was very close to and still I'm close to to this day really opened my eyes into what social work can be. Yeah, so I think for me, yeah, it was kind of destined. I was meant to be in this field. I've met a lot of great social workers, yeah, since I was young, so that's the reason why I got into social work. And were there any interesting research projects that you get to do as part of that undergrad? Yeah, so I think at the time, in terms of the research, I remember, like we were, because,

that social research degree was pretty much lumped in with social work students and criminology students so when rather me doing a big research project as a cohort we did a research project on the lockout laws in Sydney at the time and there were like I remember we did workshops around certain themes that were happening in terms of policy one was around the Modern Slavery Act which was being bought into New South Wales at the time into the legislation And I think another was, I think it was a Crimes Act working with sexual offenders. But yeah, I didn't do a big research piece.

I didn't end up doing an honours. But yeah, a lot of the policy research subjects that I did were, yeah, basically around policies that were in New South Wales at the time. Yeah. Okay. And do you have a desire to do research in social work as well? Has that ever come up for you? Yeah.

Actually, I am kind of in the process and hopefully I get in. I'm in the process of applying for the Masters of Counseling in Social Work at UNSW. And a part of that is doing a big research project which could lead to a PhD possibly. For me, I have actually thought about that, you know, I've been encouraged by a lot of family and friends to get into the academic side of things because I think for me working on the ground, I see that a lot of legislation, a lot of policies created by, for example, the New South Wales government does have an effect on, you know, social workers on the field. But yeah, I'm hoping I get into that Masters and then, yeah, I guess from then on I would like to spend more time in the

research aspect of social work. That's incredible. So as part of the Masters in Social Work, did you have some interesting placements that perhaps guided the direction that you took once you qualified? Yeah, so I was very lucky, very fortunate to have two direct placements. The first one was at a local community centre near my house, which is great. It was five minutes away, travel time. Yeah, was cut. And at the time, you know, my daughter was a toddler. So I guess for me, it just worked out really well.

But yeah, the CEO of the local community center, she was a social worker herself. And she was very big within the multicultural community, especially in Marikville. But for me, at that placement, it was mainly involved in the Disability Day program. And that meant, you know, facilitating, coordinating, planning, helping out the staff in that program, you know, to come up with program planning. I also, another project I was a part of was a supportive playgroup, specifically for mothers with mental health concerns, issues or disorders.

For me, that was a big thing for me because I think after I had my daughter, I did suffer from postnatal depression. So, yeah, I was very fortunate enough to be actually a lived experience facility. for that and that was a really good project that was run in conjunction with the local new South Wales health district as well as a mental health organization and yeah just participated in a lot of events they were running they ran an age care program which sometimes i would like you know help out with but i was also able to use my policy background to create as well as update some of the organization's policies and i was able to implement a child protection policy because at the time

I was working in the out-of-home care space. So I guess I had a lot of experience working in the child protection space a bit. I also like just updated the NDIS and aged care policies that they had. Yeah. Wow. That's such great experience. Is there a lot of guidance or were you kind of left to your own devices to figure it out? It was a bit of both. Like I said, I was very fortunate to have a CEO that came from a community development type of social work. So for me, you know, got a lot of mentorship actually. you know, she kind of, we had discussions about her own journey because, like I said, she was very big within the multicultural community. She did a lot of advocacy work for migrants and refugees

back in the 80s and 90s. So had a lot of mentorship. I was very independent as well. I think in terms of the projects I was involved in, I would just like take it on myself. And I think that's the type of person that I am, you know, wanting to help out do the best that I can. But yeah, it was great placement. Amazing. And what was the second one? So the second one was at Headspace in South West Sydney. Yeah, it was during the time of lockdown. So it was a very interesting placement. Wow. Everything was done online. I mean, it was great for me because I was working part-time, you know, juggling, you know, single parenthood. Yeah, so in that role, it was more clinical. So I was pretty much given independence to do intakes and assessments.

And that meant being the first point of call for a young person who is wanting to get support from headspace. But yeah, it was just unfortunate that COVID, the lockdown had happened. I would have loved to be in the office, you know, get a gauge of what all the other practitioners were doing. But yeah, it was a really good placement. It taught me a lot about the importance of intakes and the assessment process, you know, when clients first, first come to seek support. Yeah. It is such a fascinating space to be in, especially now, post-COVID with so many people, including myself working from home part-time, the placements that I've been able to offer since COVID have been blended. So it's for some of those students,

actually most of those students more recently, they've been either exclusively or mostly online throughout part of their study as well, not just the placement. So I guess they've been able to adjust and adapt pretty quickly, but very different world to just full-time in front of a thing. And you kind of need to be a bit more like yourself, self-guided and being able to take responsibility for your own timetable and not as peer-led. So, yeah, I think it's great that that suits your personality in the way that you like doing things, but I definitely acknowledge that it's a bit more challenging these days. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Yeah. And I think it really opens up avenues for clients as well. Like, yeah, so especially with counseling, mental health services, you know, a lot of clients want telehealth. And I think it helps people who've got diagnosis as like social anxiety because, you know, coming into a centre, coming into a clinical space can be overwhelming, especially if there's that with young people, if they've been admitted to hospital and, you know, have stayed in a mental health ward.

So, yeah, there's a power to telehealth, power to online technology. but then at the same time it can be a catalyst. So it really depends, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And I can say that you've done more study. Yeah, I actually am currently, I'm actually one semester away from finishing a graduate diploma in counselling at Torrance University.

The reason why I decided to do this is, you know, I eventually want to open my own private practice. And I feel comfortable doing counselling. I mean, in my current role, that's what I'm doing. I guess I would say 50% of my work is counselling. Yeah, I don't know, I've always been drawn to my studies and a lot of people say to me, why do you want to keep studying? And I think for me, it's very important.

Did you follow my HSC? So it was part of, I feel comfortable in academia, if anything. But then I would like to work in the field as well. So, yeah, a matter of, you know, doing both. Yeah. Would you consider doing the accredited mental health social work? Yes, 100%. But that's later down the track.

Not now, I would say. But yeah, 100%. I definitely do want to go down that route. Yeah. Yeah, one thing at a time. Or in your case, three things at a time. It seems like. Wow.

And you've done a lot of work in family support and out of home care. I'm wondering what the transition was then from the mental health and the policy side of things to that. I'm not going to lie, it hasn't been easier. And I think, I mean, having my own lived experience, it makes things a lot difficult. And I think it's for someone who understands how the system looks like, as, you know as a young person now transitioning to that worker role it's very jarring at times I always keep up to date with what's going on with DCJ and that's only because you know obviously my own lived experience a lot of my ex-colleagues a lot of my friends work in this space and we always

have chats about how the out-of-home care family preservation you know even targeted early intervention space there's a lot of harm done to a lot of young people and it's really disheartening to see because it feels like you know things haven't really changed i mean there are a lot of great workers there are a lot of great you know managers out there but it's it's very difficult to see especially with the current report that was released i think by auditing office of new south i also about the out-of-home care system yeah so it's been difficult i think as a worker because you know especially for me i'm very passionate about working with families specifically you know all members of family actually, parents, you know, even babies, toddlers, primary school age, to high school, even to

young adults. And that's a reflection of, I guess, my own personal journey, you know, going through the system, having mental health issues as a young person, and now seeing my daughter grow as a young child to now she's in primary. So seeing that, being able to use that within my work, you know, because a lot of the families that I talk to, you know, mental health is a big thing, homelessness. So it's really sad. But yeah, I think it's really shaped who I am as a social worker and the type of clients that I want to work with. But yeah. So what's your current role now? How did you navigate that whole system and determine? Because you're in a blended role yourself, right? You've got a couple of things happening. Yeah. So I work in an amazing organisation. They're a local community organisation and they pretty much support individuals, families, whoever that is affected by the criminal justice. And youth justice system. So my role currently is a family worker role that's very varied. It includes like as I mentioned before counselling. I do casework support so not so much case management but just brief to I guess medium term casework and that usually most of the time it's

usually information advice and referrals. I am also a co-facilitator of a support group for our families who are affected by the justice system. And I also run like external training for organisations that want to understand the complexities are working with families who are affected. So it's a very ferried role and I think based on personal reflection I feel very comfortable doing a lot of things like keeping myself busy but I think for me originally was working with, I don't like to say the word victims but I was working with the opposite end of families now I'm working with a different type of family group and I you know, at first I wasn't sure if I'd feel comfortable, but now, like, you know, I've been in this role for a while.

It's actually opened my eyes up to a lot of things. Then it made me realize that if families don't get support at the early stages, and that includes, you know, the family preservation or targeted early detention space, and most of these families will end up in the criminal justice space or juvenile justice space. So it's a really great role. I manage upper management. The CEO was amazing. and even my own managers, amazing colleagues. I have a lot of experience, lived experience. So, yeah, it's an amazing organisation that I work for. Do you get much of an opportunity, given that what you're saying about that early intervention,

you're working with people who are already part of this system? And your policy background would give you a good, I guess, perspective on how things could be done better or the way things could shift to prevent these sort of situations from occurring. Is there scope for that in your role, or the organisation as a whole? Yeah, so I think the greatest thing about this organisation is they have a lot of networks, contacts within the university space, especially with criminologists.

For me, I think it's really interesting, the stuff that's a lot of research into criminalisation, actually, you know, there's a lot of stuff coming out from America and the UK and Europe. But I think from a policy background, it's very interesting because there is avenues, especially for DCJ, there is avenues to support individuals that are going through this process. And I think one of the things that's being spoken about a lot is restorative justice, which is pretty much it allows victims of a crime to come together with the offender or the perpetrator, whoever that might be, to, yeah, just have a conversation about, you know, what has happened. It hasn't really caught on in New South Wales.

I mean, there was a really great organisation called Transforming Justice Australia that is trying to get more funding through the government, but it's been very difficult. I feel that in New South Wales, it's all about, you know, it's very punitive, the justice system. And I think, you know, we see a lot of this stuff happening, especially in the juvenile justice system. There have been recent, you know, media spotlight on that in, I think, Western Australia. It's just a shame because a lot of, especially with the juvenile justice system, a lot of the young people that are in that actually come from out of home care, come from family preservation programs and research is there that shows that people that are in the justice system are affected by the justice system are families that have experienced, gone through child protection programs. So yeah, I guess for me from a policy background, I think that's something I'm personally interested in and invested in, especially. working with this group yeah yeah and you work at the university as well yes it's the same university is it yes i see you so i work casually as a field educator supervisor so i pretty much supervise master of social work students yeah okay so is that for students who perhaps they're placed in an organization that doesn't have a

direct social work supervisor yes that's correct yeah i've always been interested in that that sounds like such an interesting role. Yeah, and I think I decided to do it. I like the academic side of things. I think it's, you know, especially for emerging social workers, people who have just come out in their working. I think there is a value in having newer social workers get into supervision, supervising the next cohort. It's good because, like, I'm currently supervising a student who's a single mother as well is doing the Masters of Social Work degree. And I think it's, it allows, like, the next generation of social workers to understand what are the roles that are available out in the industry? What does that look like? You know, what are the different avenues? If, for example,

social worker wanted to get into academia, what would that look like? How can you get there? So, I think for me, a reason I like doing supervision is I kind of wish I had more of a mentorship or more clinical supervision in my previous roles. So that way I can kind of understand what's out there, what are the main concerns, what type of information do I need while I'm working, especially in the first job that I ever got. So yeah, it's been great. I really enjoy, you know, supervising social work students. Does it feel like sometimes you're giving advice to your former self then? Yes. With my own experience, yes, after time, like most of the time it feels like, yeah, it feels like I am. But I think, you know, if we can shape and give more guidance,

to individuals that are coming through the social degrees, why not? At the end of the day, we have a lived experience of what that feels like being in the industry. And I see a lot of worker burnout and that's something I faced as well before, I would say, two years into, you know, getting out of uni. So, yeah, if we can just like, you know, shape the next generation of social workers through our own practice, through what we know of the industry, I think that's, yeah, it's very important. Which is such a shame because so many people will have those.

experiences of burnout so close to when they've just finished their degree and you think why have I just spent all this time when I've spent less time actually in the practical world what support do you need how have you gotten around that look it has been a difficult process not gonna lie and I think I remember when I was during my master's it was you know there was taught you know work at burnout what did that look like vicarious trauma but I think it's very difficult what you just said you know coming out of uni and just two years in it's like oh my god uh do i really want to be a social worker for me i think what was really important

and what i was missing i mean in this current role my counselling casework role that i've got clinical supervision that is something that's not often talked about i wish and i think money financial you know cost is a big thing for people you know that are coming out of uni as well having clinical supervision it helped me a lot having a really good support network at home as well and Yeah, just maintaining a good work, life balance, because I know with some roles, I've come across colleagues, ex-colleagues of mine, you know, friends who are social workers, and sometimes they take their work home with them. And for me, I'm very strict about that because I did do that at one point, but then it affected my relationship with my daughter. And I think, you know,

at the end of the day, my family's more important. And I think, yeah, I'm sure a lot of other social workers, people that are starting out feel the same way. But, Yeah, like I said, it's taboo. It's not something that, you know, we talk about unless it's within our colleagues that we know or like friends that we have that are in the industry, but in general, no one really talks about worker burnout. I think there's a lot more research happening at the moment on multitasking and how we think we're good at it and we're not really. And really, that's what you're talking about is if you're taking your work home, you're not being the best parent that you could be and you're also not being the best worker that you can be because you're not doing either of

of those things properly. Yeah. So, yeah, it is so important, but it's also important to be in a culture and most of the time you've got no control over this, but if you're in a culture where everyone models the best behavior that you would like to see in terms of putting down your work, getting out for lunch, doing something productive just to get you out of the headspace and leaving on time and feeling okay with what you've been able to do in that time, that makes the biggest difference. but unfortunately we're not all in those environments and that's the challenging part.

Yeah, and I think it all comes down. I remember having chats with social workers who've been in this industry for a long time. I remember one of the things that they told me was it all comes down to funding and I think with the funding that's provided mainly New Self-Oles through DCJ obviously, KPI's are often the biggest hurdle and I think within the, you know, child protection space, KPI's are a big thing. But it's sad because, you know, reviews into child protection news soft health shows that, you know, there's a high turnover of staff. And if I had known that at the very beginning, I kind of would have maybe not jump into the child protection space at the very beginning. But yeah, I think it's very important that we talk more about worker burnout,

finding an organisation. I mean, you know, it's not always possible, but finding an organisation that aligns with our own personal values, because a lot of the workforce, like myself, a lot of the people at work in community services, as well as get into social workers, people who've got lived experience of the system, whether that be the criminal justice system, the child protection system, NDIS, age care.

So I think it's very important that we talk about this more. Absolutely. Do you get to be part of those funding applications and where does the funding come from for your work? Yeah, so for me, I actually do support my manager with the reporting, which is good. So my funding actually comes from the Office of Responsible Gambling, which is very interesting. There is such a, with the criminal justice system, there is that connection to gambling. And I think it's really interesting because in terms of funding, it's kind of out of the norm,

because most of the gambling funding goes to gamble aware, but I think, you know, there is connection with the criminal justice system. There was a lot of people that end up owing money because I've taken money out from someone. And I think gambling also, there is coercive control in relation to gambling. I've worked with families, coercive control where, you know, their partner would ask for more money because I had a gambling issue. So it's really interesting. But yeah, in terms of reporting, I do help my manager out. I mean, because she knows how the reporting looks like, I just, you know, help her with stats and everything. But yeah. that's what I do. Yeah.

And it sounds as though there are a few social workers, at least in the organisation, which would help just from a networking perspective, a peer perspective, but also that supervision, as you were suggesting. Yeah, so it's amazing. Like, there are a lot of social workers in this organisation. I mean, having that really makes a difference because, you know, you've studied the same things. A lot of the theories that you work, the practice that you work from,

is aligned. And even my external clinical supervisor, she's a social worker as well. And just having that support, understanding, you know, using the AAASW code of ethics, those types of things that's very important to me. I think, you know, just to ensure that I maintain practice as a social worker, understanding, I guess, ethical dilemmas that are important to social workers and professional boundaries as well. So yeah, it's a good thing that there are a lot of social workers in my organisation. Yep.

And what would you suggest is the most challenging part of the work you're doing? Because it doesn't sound as though the funding applications are, and that was what I found working in an NGO, just in terms of, you know, year after year, what are we doing? How are we ensuring the longevity of the work and kind of creating projects that span a decent amount of time? But I guess from what you're saying, there's concerns around balance, the work-life balance, but on a more sort of deeper level in terms of the... the actual type of work that you do, what do you think is the most challenging?

For me, it's definitely the systems that we work in. Like, as I mentioned before, the news of ours criminal justice system is very punitive. And it's, there's so much stigma and discrimination, especially for the families, you know, at the end of the day, the families didn't do anything wrong. And sometimes, you know, I've had mums tell me, you know, as a part of my work, moms tell me, you know, my son just was arrested last night, you know, I don't know what to do. So for me, it's definitely the systems that we work in. The stigma, you know, families will try to get support,

even if it's just mental health support, but the stigma is still there. And I think it's sad because, you know, obviously I really want to advocate for these families, but, you know, there's not a lot of services out as well. I work with families where their loved ones being released and the lack of services available to them, whether that be alcohol and drugs, mental health. Even like, you know, fathers are wanting to get custody of their child, it's just difficult. And I think that's the least favorite part of my job. And I think a lot of people in my organisation would say the same thing because sometimes we are often challenged even by DCJ.

When we have instances where we have to work, collaborate with their agencies, it's just difficult. And a lot of the times there's that stigma. no one wants to work with these families or even with these individuals. I think you're so well positioned then in terms of your research and policy background. If you do end up moving into academia or even if you don't, you've got, I think, a little bit more power over funding structures and capacity to create greater awareness at all levels in terms of the early intervention and reducing the stigma and increasing strategies to hopefully enable those cycles to be broken.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Have you seen any changes over time or maybe, you know, given that it's fairly early days for you yet, maybe your colleagues have mentioned things just in terms of how the structure, the systems are shifting? It's very difficult to say and that the reason I say this is because I don't know if people know but corrective services New South Wales was a part of DCJ. However, now it's its own entity again. It was actually just a media release was put out actually this week, I think. It's very difficult to say. I mean, you know, my organisation, they have a research and policy department and like I said,

we have a lot of connections within universities, in the criminology space. It's very difficult to say like what will change. I mean, there are a lot of good programs. in other states, a lot of funding in other states, which is good, you know, that's allowed, especially in Queensland and Victoria, from what I could see, it's allowed a lot of programs, specifically for families to happen. However, from a policy background, it's very hard to say. I feel like the priorities are not there, given domestic violence being so front and centre at the moment, in terms of bail, which is pretty much a point where people that have been arrested, they can be in the community until sentencing or trial. Yeah, it's just been difficult.

I've seen there has been an increase of bail recently. And Remand, actually, Remand is when an individual can't be bailed into the community, they have to stay in prison until trial or sentencing happens. So that's increased a lot in terms of statistics. But yeah, it's very hard to say. It really depends on the agenda of the government, what they want. I mean, they're just so much that universities, organisations like mine can do to advocate for more change, but in terms of the current system, I don't think there is any. There's even not a lot of programs and not a lot of services for people that people can access post-release. So it's very difficult. Yeah.

Yeah, because I can see it's almost like a butterfly effect. Like you don't really know what one thing will affect further down the chain. But it also is really disappointing and must be hard in terms of a system to work within if you feel like you're chasing your tail the entire time. Yeah. And it's always sad because, like I said, I work with the families that work with parents. I work with brothers, sisters, whoever that might be, aunties, uncles, grandparents. And it's a lot of the times, it's really sad when they tell me, you know, I try to get my son into a rehabilitation or a mental health unit. but it's inundated. The wait list along, they said we can't accept them or, you know, with the child protection space. I've come across a lot of grandparents who have to, you know, take custody of the child's children and it's in itself, the system, I always say the system's broken at the moment,

whichever system that we work in, it's very difficult, yeah. Yeah. Is there something that's working well, though, even if it's just your team, kind of of being critical of the system and finding workarounds and, you know, advocacy. How are you able to feel like you're still doing good work within that? I think for me, it's just being that first entry point for a lot of these families. I've had a lot of families say to me, and then this is even after sentencing when their loved ones being sentenced to how many years in prison. For me, it's just hearing the feedback from them on the phone saying, oh, you know,

I'm so grateful came across your service, even if it's just to have a chat because a lot of the families can't even talk to their own families. They can't talk to their friends, even work, you know, because of that level of judgment, stigma and shame. So for me, what keeps me going in this role is being that first point of call for them, being that person that can listen to what they're going through. And a lot of the times that's what they need. And then, you know, I'll just support them in doing a bit of information advice and referral, finding the right services that they need and I think that's empowering to a lot of clients because that you know in this type of situation clients don't really want you to work it's not so much crisis driven it's more they just want you

to sit with them where they're at what's happening in their lives and I think for me that's very important that's very empowering to a client especially when everything else around them is victimizing them or blaming them or saying you're associated with this or that again it comes back to that stigma and you're a person who can be a constant and just say, I don't care about all of that. I see you as a person. Yeah. And I think a lot of these families have involvement with the police. They're having involvement with DCJ, child protection. And a lot of the times, even these services, you know, even, you know, social workers as well will judge them. And a lot of the families will say to me, yeah, like, I'm so scared that, you know, there's that stigma.

they'll think I led my loved one down this path and all of the times you know I work with mainly families where their loved ones over the age of 18 and like it's about kind of re-educating them that this isn't your fault you know things happen it's a matter of what are some strategies we can do in moving forward to you know um rehabilitating them or healing them from what they've done and what they're going through yeah yeah no one's a lost cause That's right. Are there any good resources that you think people could check out if they wanted to know a bit more about the work you're doing?

Yeah, so I definitely, like I said, do a lot of research into restorative justice. It's already being used within the juvenile justice system. There are a lot of resources out there. I think this is very important for social workers that are working in the child protection space, family preservation space, where there is trauma. There is literature about the abolitionist view on the criminal justice system and that's pretty much focused on instead of locking people up, what are the other alternatives in society to helping people who've committed a crime.

And I think there needs to be a bigger push for programs out in the community, whether that be a bigger push for men's behavior change programs, more rehabilitation programs. I think, you know, if we're incarcerating people, what's the point when they get released? I don't have that support in the community, hence why people tend to re-offend because they don't have that support or the programs that they can go to. But yeah, in terms of the criminal justice space, I would highly suggest looking into, yeah, into those two things. Yeah, nice.

You also mentioned the out-of-home care report, so I might see if I can track that down and pop it in the show notes. Yeah, I think it's done by the Audit Office of New Southwifers. Wales. Yeah, it's been in the news actually quite a lot. So yeah, I can send that to you if you want. Yeah. There are also some great podcasts that talk about a lot of these things, but I'm thinking for yourself, if you haven't heard of it already, Ashton Hayes, who was on the podcast a couple of years ago, maybe three years ago now, she started her own podcast called Becoming an AMHSW social worker. Yes, yeah, I know her. Yeah, so she provides supervision and

support for people who are trying to get their accreditation. So that's wonderful if anyone wants a bit of an idea around what the process is like or to hear from other people who have gone through the process. There's also a wonderful TV series that came out recently called Boy Swallows Universe. I don't know if you've heard of that. Yeah, it's, yes, I have. It's, I think, wasn't it the young person won a Logie Award, I think, recently? Yeah, just recently. Yeah. And well, well deserved, I would suggest for social workers, compulsory. reviewing. But as you're talking about things like that generational trauma and young people getting caught up in justice systems just because the adults around them are kind of taken back

to that, but just such a beautifully well put together piece of work and very Australian, which I always love. I love when Australian things are Aussie true instead of Ocker and kind of making fun of Australians. It's actually a really, really good true Aussie story. I appreciate that. I think another, I think Lilo and Stitch, because it's funny, because Oh my goodness, the social worker that. Yeah, and as well in The Simpsons, I recently watched an episode, it's, it's similar to the Lilo and Stitch, you know, narrative and in both, even the Simpsons and Lalo Stitch, it was a social worker who was tasked with child protection matters. And I remember watching where my daughter, Leil Stitch, and I was like, yeah, I think his name was Mr. Bubbles or something.

and it's not a representation of what child protection looks like from a social worker's no we don't all work for the fpi undercover but i think it's like just the narrative of family especially keeping families together right what does that look like so i think it was interesting actually i just thought of that now so yeah yeah what is it mahana means family yes mahona means family i remember in that in that movie in the lelo stitch movie you know he even like two lelo sister you know, saying he had to make that tough decision to, you know, take Lilo. So I think it's a good kids movie. And if you have young kids, I highly suggest you watch it again.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's one of those things that holds up well. Yes, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Thank you so much, Ray. This has been incredible.

Is there anything before we finish up that you haven't had the chance to mention that you want to or words of advice to people getting in. into the field. Yeah, I'd like to impart some words of advice, you know, at the end of the day, especially. I think this is more for social workers that are emerging, that have young families or, you know, that have children. I think it's very important to really, really find a role that you're able to have a good work-life balance.

And I think, you know, it's very important as well, like, I think to general social workers to understand your own personal values and how that will align with the work that you do. because sometimes the work that we do does not align with our values, and I feel that's the reason why there's a lot of work of burnout in certain industries. So yeah, I think look after yourself, ensure that your mental health and your stresses, that you look after yourself. Otherwise, you know, it will just lead to burnout, trauma, all those types of things. Yeah.

Yeah. I really appreciate you being so open about your own experience as well with your own social work involvement at a young age and that exposure that you had during childhood. But I feel like that's only made the driving you stronger to develop your social research skills and the Masters of Counseling that you're hoping to undertake. And any additional research, I think that you do, having had that social policy and research background will give you, and now that you've had the practical experience as well, will give you that edge in terms of, I do understand the implications of what we're writing and

what we're advocating. for on the ground. So you've had the opportunity to use that lived experience to support those family preservation efforts as hard as it was. But supporting families that have had experience with justice systems, that exposure and supporting, I guess, the next generation of students and providing them with advice around pathways, which the careers counselor at high school, I don't think they would have known, at least when I went through what social work was, it had never even been mentioned to me. It was only because one of my older cousins was studying social work when I was leaving school and I just happened to have a chat with her one day at probably Christmas

or something. And then I just thought, oh, okay, that sounds pretty good. I give that a try, but I always thought I'd go into psychology because that was sort of the more traditional pathway. That's right. that's the sort of thing you hear about and you think okay that's a way of helping people but there's not and maybe that's a sign of the times now that careers advisors are clued into there are alternatives there are other ways that we can work with people so i think what you're doing is a wonderful representation of that yeah and i think yeah with the psychology stuff i mean yeah i mean you had to get really good marks to do psychology and you know at the time obviously because of a lot of family disruption wasn't able to get the marks but yeah

Definitely agree with you. That's why I think I find that with being an accredited mentor or social, we are on the same path as psychologists anyways. And I think I always thought of it as being a latest. It's kind of like, you know, at the end of the day, we all have the same strengths. I feel like with social work, we're more holistic. We use, like, I really prescribe to the biopsychosocial model of social work. So that's very important. And I think it's just, Yeah, it's talked about a lot. I think with social workers about, you know, getting the Medicare stuff. So yeah, I mean, it's good that, you know, we're able to apply for that. Yeah. Yeah, there are new avenues coming up all the time. Yeah.

I guess opportunities for us to demonstrate our skills. Yep, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you again so much, Ray. It's been such a pleasure getting to know you and learn about your experience and I'm just so grateful that you can spend the time to do this. Oh, thank you. Thanks for giving me this opportunity as well. I mean, You know, you're doing an amazing work with your podcasts. I've been listening to it, like, religiously lately. And, you know, I think it's really needed. What you're doing is amazing because if I'd known about what the avenues are out there,

you know, it would have made my life easy and it would have made a lot of people's life easier, I would say. Yeah. Well, tell your students. I will. I will. Yeah. Thank you. That's very kind.

I appreciate it. No, that's okay. Thank you. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Ray, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlightpodcast at gmail.com.

I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Lisa, an accredited mental health social worker, psychotherapist and author of Finding My Invisible Sun, Overcoming Trauma. Lisa has lived experience of trauma, mental illness and institutionalized discrimination, and has practiced therapy for a combined 15 years within a domestic and family violence prevention service

and then as an accredited mental health social worker. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you next time.