Social Work Spotlight - Episode 123: Amanda

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

In this episode I speak with Amanda, a Social Worker who has spent most of her career working with older people. Recently, her passion for research and search for clarity in her career lead her to enrol in her PhD, researching Access for People with Dementia to Voluntary Assisted Dying. She balances part time work, part time studying and full-time parenting to two young boys. Amanda gains value out of supporting people to maintain their empowerment and self-determination, against what society tells them should happen.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Social Work Stories podcast episode ‘Social Work and Voluntary Assisted Dying’ - https://socialworkstories.com/episodes/ep-85-social-work-and-voluntary-assisted-dying-we-have-all-the-tools-we-needThis episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wlzLg4LM2xtdGrvVJrbk6kFEDuCmTR7bhr3gR0GC5Pg/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasmin Lupus, and today's guest is Amanda, a social worker who has spent most of her career working with older people. Recently, her passion for research and search for clarity in her career led her to enroll in her PhD, researching access for people with dementia to voluntary assisted dying. She balances part-time work, part-time studying, and full-time parenting to two. young boys. Amanda gains value out of supporting people to maintain their empowerment and self-determination against what society tells them should happen. Hi Amanda, lovely to meet with you today. Thanks so much for coming to chat with me about your experience. That's all right. Thank you very much for having me, Yasmin. I'd love to know firstly when you got started in social work and what brought you to the profession. Yeah, so it's a bit of a strange story, I guess, I don't know, something story,

But my entire life, I wanted to be a teacher. And then as I was in year 12 looking through the UAC guide at the same time, I'd been reading a book by, I think it's Tori Hayden. She's a special ed teacher in America and reading her stories about how she got really involved in her children's family life and home life and how she was able to draw the connections between what was happening for a child at home and what was happening for a child in the classroom. And then I came across a Bachelor of Social Work and I was reading a bit more about it.

that is what I've been looking for. Like that's everything that was missing for me from this idea of being a teacher is actually being fulfilled in that social work. So at the end of the day, as a 17-year-old, I didn't put any Bachelor of Education on my applications and completely changed within about a month or two of my uni applications being due to being in social work. And I haven't regretted it for one minute.

Yeah. And was there a point at which in your studies, that kind of was solidified for you? You realised that you'd made the right decision? I don't think after kind of learning more about the social work degree I ever really questioned it, to be honest. It just felt right. Whether there was a point that solidified it for me, I don't know if solidify is the right word, but sort of some pivotal moments around having some guest speakers come to uni.

So we had some guest speakers who were social workers in a local private hospital and they spoke about how they worked with older people and supported them to have dignity and choice and empowerment at that stage of their life. And I thought, yeah, that sounds really good. And then my placements, you know, were just were really quite pivotal for me as well. I went through when we did three placements. So my first one was in community work and community development, which, look, I loved and I learned a lot from, but I also realized that it probably wasn't my passion area. The second one was in, I went out to Broken Hill and I worked in community mental health out there.

Again, I liked it. I learned a lot, but I was still kind of like, oh, I'm just not sure if mental health is sort of my area. And then my third and final placement was in work with families and young people and really taking that holistic approach. So families and children. And again, I loved it. I loved every minute of that. But at the same time, I'd had a part-time job at a retirement village and I was really weighing up this year, young people, older people. Yeah, but that third placement was really the, yeah, I really like this. I really love this.

this is a passion for me. I've actually spoken with someone else who did a remote placement at Broken Hill. And I feel like it could have been potentially quite isolating, but there were other students there at the time. I don't know if that was your experience. And so they got to go out on visits to remote areas, to visit clients and just get a feel for what it means to collaborate with other social workers or with other allied health professionals.

Was that similar to your experience? Yes, there was a whole team of social work students out there. Some were from my university and some from the Salis University of Newcastle and some were from the University of Sydney, I think. And I actually shared a house with some of them as well. It was also my first foray in living out of home. So that was the whole eye-opening experience for me. Just jump in the deep end. Yeah, why not? Yeah, no, I don't think it was isolating. I've always been pulled to rural living. I guess in my spare time now, first thing I'd like to do is go out camping and get out into the country. Coming back, I always thought I'd live rural, but life didn't happen that way, and that's fine.

Yeah, so no, I don't think I found it isolating. I found it really quite personally anyway. I grew a lot in that placement, realizing, you know, things like the inequity and the access issues for people who live rural. So we did a visit with the Royal Flying Doctor Service, and that was just fascinating. just the logistics of getting services to people in some of these communities. We did a couple of days down at Wilcania as part of the community mental health team and that's, I think at the time it was 90 plus percent indigenous population at Wilcania.

So looking at how the medical model would try and fit in with a very indigenous population and the way they were doing it at that point, there were a lot of flaws and they'd sit there in their hospital and say, well, no one's coming to their appointment. So why are they not come to the appointments? And the social worker and I on the drive back were talking about it. And she was saying they're not coming to the appointments because people actually need to go to them. They're not going to come into a hospital. And we spoke about the past trauma of coming into a government service and, you know, the culture of going and having a yarn with people rather than expecting them to come and sit in a clinical setting.

So yeah, so that was really quite eye-opening. I do remember when I was travelling through the Northern Territory, there were schools that were set up with you know, it's basically a demountable and whoever can come comes, but the idea is that it's supposed to be in the community, easy for people to access, and at least it's a supervised space where people have potentially access to one or more teachers, whoever can get there, as opposed to, you know, it's not going to happen if they need to travel. So, yeah, there's so much that needs to be done for some of these remote communities. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think Broken Hills is a bit funny because it's a big population centre, but it's smack bank.

in the middle of nowhere. So, you know, your local city, quote unquote, is Adelaide, which I think was about a six-hour drive-away. So it was, you kind of felt like you were in a, you know, a rural hub and a population hub, but then you left the borders of the town and there was just nothing and no one for hours. So there was a bit of a strange setting in that way. One interesting thing was just, you know, shops closing at Sunday afternoon. And, you know, there was one kebab shop that was. was open after midnight, which being a bunch of uni students was important to us at that point in my life. So those things were a little bit different, but it was a good experience overall. Oh, I can imagine 100%. What were your first roles out of uni, then what were the opportunities that came you away? So I was quite lucky. During uni, I got hired as a volunteer coordinator at a local retirement village and then the social worker there who was two days a week. She was job sharing, she was going on maternity leave the week I handed in my final assignment.

So I slipped very easily into that role and then kept my volunteer coordinating position for a little while and then picked up some casual work at some local private hospitals and eventually landed a permanent part-time at a local private hospital. So I was three days a week at the private hospital, two days a week at the retirement village. And then when that maternity leave ended, that three days a week gradually increased full time until I went on maternity leave myself and I dropped back to part time. And then ironically, on my second lot of maternity leave, I saw that that social work position at the retirement village was advertised again and I applied for it and I got it. So I'm back where I started. But it's a really, it's quite a unique role as far as I'm aware, no other local retirement village. have a social worker. So it's just it's a really unique role and it's a really enjoyable role.

A lot of variety from the Ritime Village through to the aged care facilities that are attached and a lot of room to really stretch myself as a social worker and explore different areas. So I job share, I do two days a week and the other social worker does three days a week. And in my other time, I work for, again, University of Newcastle. I've also worked for the UNE. around started off supervising students on placement, doing external supervision. And then that has gradually evolved into doing a bit of teaching, some marking. And I've also just recently, a few months ago, started my PhD with the University of Newcastle. So it's all been a very natural progression for me.

I've just kind of followed the opportunities as they have come up. And it's landed me in a pretty good place, I think. Yeah. I'm just super impressed that the facility has full-time social work capacity. I think that's a big deal, especially when other facilities might have nothing or very minimal. And I wonder if that's more about the complexity of the people that the facility cares for, or if that's the area or just someone really good at funding applications. I don't know.

So I'd have to ask previous social workers the exact story, but there's no government funding for these positions, either in an aged care facility or in a retirement village. There are a few areas that you can, you know, like an external person to come in do some counselling in an aged care facility, but that's very limited and very strict criteria for who'd be eligible for that, and that's counselling obviously not social work. So the funding for my role comes from the residents. Every year when they pass their budget, they agree to continue to fund my role through their recurrent charges. So yeah, they have made this decision. They keep me employed, But yeah, in terms of government funding, there is none.

And I believe it probably started through advocacy from within the community. It's the community that this retirement village is in is quite tight knit and close. So I imagine there was probably, you know, 20 odd years ago, some pretty heavy advocacy. And yeah, I know that the residents, they value the work that we do. They tell us that regularly. So yeah, it just keeps rolling on. Yeah, nice. I'm imagining the work that you have been doing in the facility has then informed your research

questions or your topic or what you're wanting to do with your PhD. Is that something that I guess the university could get a good grapple around? How did you find your supervisor? What was that process like? So in terms of getting onto my PhD, it was something that I always thought I'd want to do in my career, go back to doing a bit of research while also keeping practice. And then it was a bit of a, again, a natural evolution of, I was also at the point working in another organisation I had in total four jobs, which was a bit much. Yeah, plus a mum, which is the biggest one. Yeah, it was a little. Yeah, a little one.

It was a big thing. But I was really at this point, my career going, okay, I need to focus and decide what I want to do with my career and I need to take control of it again. That was happening around the time that voluntary sister dying was becoming available in New South Wales. And then a few other things happened, like from a life perspective, it became appropriate within my family for me to drop back work hours so that I could focus on my PhD. So that all happened in terms of how my work has informed it. Yes, it has. It's informed it in terms of I'm looking at voluntary sister dying and people with dementia. So working with people with dementia and looking at the choice and control is really what it comes down to for me.

me and you know whatever side you sit on on the voluntary sister dying debate I think for people with dementia choice and control is something that for a lot of people I talked to at the beginning of that journey they can be quite scared that they're going to lose that so I was really interested in how having voluntary sister dying now available in all states of Australia how that might impact on people with dementia specifically so that's really how my work informed it I am for various reasons trying to keep them to quite separate things, my research and my work, but obviously they are, I'm one person, so they do

relate. But yeah, there are some particular reasons why that is set up that way. So then in terms of how I actually practically started my research, again, it was like life was just telling me it was the right way to go. I'm religious myself. So I also did some praying about it and felt like I was being called, I guess, for lack of a better way of saying it, to go in that direction. and that now was the right time to do it. So then I looked at some different universities, looked at their PhD programs, just using Google. One of the things I noted was that not many universities

had a PhD of social work specifically that I could find. I could be very wrong in that. I'm certainly no expert, but the University of Newcastle did, and I was already working for them as well. So then I just looked out for supervisors at the University of Newcastle email. had a meeting, found that, you know, sort of clicked with that supervisor and just kept going ahead with it. And again, just following that the path and ended up now about three or four months into it.

And yeah, really enjoying it and seeing how, you know, even though I am trying to keep it separate from my work, the skills that I'm learning at my research around, you know, the reminders around critical thinking and getting engaged again with the literature and the research is really quite interesting. seeing and people at work know that I'm doing this research. So, you know, able to be involved in those bigger picture discussions at work as well around, well, how are we going to respond to this change in legislation and doing so from a really informed place, I feel, makes me a better social worker. So, yeah, which I guess we get taught at uni, isn't it? Keep engaged with the literature, it will make you a better social work a bit. Yeah, but when do you

have time, right? Yeah, exactly. And this is forcing you to go back and look at what's being written and what people are thinking and formulate your own idea based on that. Yeah, yeah. And I'm very privileged to be able to do it. I'm enrolled in that part-time, so there's no sort of scholarships available for me as a part-time student. But even if I was full-time, the scholarships are pretty minimal, to be honest with you,

and do not replace a full-time wage at all. So I'm incredibly privileged to be in a position that I can follow my dreams, not just practically, but having the family support around me to boost me up. You know, when I have those moments of, What have I done? I've taken on too much. No, no, you'll be right. You'll be right. So, yeah, I'm very lucky in where my career has ended up. Yeah. I guess just for clarity when you say scholarship, you mean in terms of like a stipend,

but the actual course is government subsidised or government funded. Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yes. So PhDs in Australia are government funded. So yes, I was referring to a living stipend. Mm-hmm. Yeah, which, yeah, as you said, is minimal, but it's intended to, to, you know, if you have to focus on. And you might change that further down the track. You know, when your youngest is older, you might convert to full time and be able to really focus on that.

But, you know, life. You do what's right for you. Yeah, exactly. And one thing I've learned about social work is that there are so many different paths and so many different options and just have to be open to opportunities that come your way. Yeah, as I said, I went into the degree thinking I was going to work with children. And now I'm loving working with older people and it's, I get so much value out of it.

And now I'm researching a topic that affects them directly because opportunities opened up to me and I followed those opportunities. Yeah. I realized I jumped forward because I'm just really interested in research. But you've had so many other opportunities because you've continued to say yes to things. I saw that you've done some remote work in the South Pacific. You've done a diploma on top of your degree. Can you talk to that? I'm curious about how that's all happened.

Yeah. So sorry, just to clarify, the remote work with the South Pacific, it was through an agency that looked at institutional abuse and the agency with a South Pacific agency. So my role covered Australia and New Zealand supporting survivors of institutional abuse. Other teams within that agency also worked within the South Pacific, so Papua New Guinea and places like that. Yeah, so that was, I guess now that you say it, I hadn't actually thought of that as remote work but it kind of was and supporting survivors especially from New Zealand was a yeah trying to

engage in their legislation as well around institutional abuse was quite a learning curve for me the diploma yeah so that was honestly that was just me being a bit of a nerd after I finished my bachelor degree it was in that period where I was working three days a week at the hospital and I knew at that stage I really wanted to return to research eventually so I enrolled in a post-year postgraduate diploma of policy and applied social research to do that. And it was good. I then started working full time and realized how difficult it was to work full time and study. So my grades probably weren't as good in that one as it was in my undergrad. But no, it was really good and it opened my eyes to a lot more of the research space and again confirmed that I wanted to

eventually go back to research in my career. So I think my ears picked up because I was born in in Papua New Guinea, which is a whole other story. But also when I worked in the hospital, we had quite a large number of heart and lung transplant recipients coming to St. Vincent's because of the specialty that we had medically. And there was an agreement, basically, with Solomon Islands and Papua New Guinea. And so we'd have a lot of people come from, and speaking of isolation, just so far away, they'd never even left their villages before. And suddenly they're in a completely different country, not understanding, health literacy. even let alone regular language types of stuff.

So just fascinating from a social equity perspective and just that how do you support someone who's away from everything that they know? Yeah. What I found really fascinating when I was working alongside teams that were focused specifically on the South Pacific was the cultural differences. And obviously we were looking at institutional abuse and trauma.

So here in Australia, some states have some pretty tight legislation around that now after the Royal Commission, whereas you then look at how that compares to, say, Papua New Guinea and the cultural differences there and the difference between a society like ours that is really individualistic. And if you abuse the person, you abuse the person. Whereas over there looking at, yeah, well, it's much more community-based. And if you abuse the person, you're actually abusing their family and how that then impacted on the restoration and the restorative justice side of things. And yeah, it was an absolute eye-opener for me,

looking at those two different cultures and just how the conflicts there as well, because we were sitting in an office and theoretically in Sydney, we all worked from home, but the office was in Sydney and then we were coming in and talking to the people in, say, Papua New Guinea or the Solomon Islands

and saying, well, this is what the rules are, this is how we need to respond, and they'll come back to saying, but that doesn't fit with our culture. So having that real cultural and culturally sensitive practice there as well. Listening to the stories of the teams that were involved in that was really eye-opening for me. So fast forward to where I got very distracted by your other work.

I'm interested in terms of the voluntary assisted dying because I imagine so much of that will be focusing on capacity or capability, right? And choice and control around that. But then you've got people with cognitive changes. What is going on in that space? What are people saying? What are people thinking? The general feeling I get at the moment is it's too hard. Having said that there are a lot of some really great people that are talking quite loudly

about it and saying, no, we need to actually look at how this is going to work, if it's going to work. We need to look at what people want. We need to look at this from a justice perspective and equitable access perspective. So for instance, I'm going to a conference, the voluntary assisted dying, Australian, New Zealand conference in October. And there will be a session there around the question of capacity and voluntary assisted dying and what that means.

So there is conversation happening. There are some international jurisdictions where, you know, it is possible in various forms. So for instance, in Netherlands, you can actually put it into their form of an advanced care plan. In Canada, you can kind of do the same thing, but it's actually their medical assistance in dying legislation is that at the end, you have to have to do it. to do a final written request and you can sign earlier to say that you don't want to do that. You don't want to have to do that final written request.

So there's different ways that different jurisdictions are getting around it. What I'm really interested in and I'm aware of one other researcher that is looking at this specifically as well though is the voice of people with dementia. So we can all sit back and say, well, this is what's fair. This is what's equitable. But I'm really interested in what people with dementia have to actually say about it. know, do they want to be able to access voluntary sister dying? Yeah, we can all sit here and say, well, if I got dementia, I'd absolutely want to.

But it's a if we got dementia. It's not a, hey, I have dementia. And then things like the question of what is suffering. In all jurisdictions, the idea of suffering is essential to voluntary sister dying or whatever term they use. Well, what is suffering for someone with dementia? You know, is it the physical suffering? Is it the emotional, the spiritual, the personal, the personal, the,

existential, what does that actually mean? And can we support that part of their journey as well? There's also, again, cultural considerations. So again, even looking at it like this, it's a very sort of individualistic approach. And some researchers have written about sort of suicide and euthanasia or voluntary sister dying as having a relational aspect as well. So you can't just look at the person and how it impacts on the person who's going through the process, but their family as well. So then that's also, for me, calls into the question of, how is dementia viewed in different communities and different cultures?

You know, in Australia, we very much view dementia is this terrible, horrible thing that is going to be a burden to everyone around you. Is it the same in all cultures across the world? Or are there some cultures that have a much more community approach? And it's not necessarily part of aging because it's not part of aging, but it's not as terrifying. So as you can see, I've got a lot of big concepts that I'm dancing. Trying to bring it together.

You've got a mind map. I can see it above your head. Yes, I have many mind maps at the moment. So I'll be really interested to see where my research ends up and what I end up focusing on because I'm not sure at the moment. For sure. I think that's so important because so often, and I've found this in my own research and my own work with people with acquired brain injuries, is that so often conversations are being had around about a person rather than with the person and being able to engage someone and help them to demonstrate capacity and agency towards

decision making. But then I do acknowledge you've got other hurdles to jump through in terms of potentially ethics boards and things like that if you're wanting to then research with people with an already diagnosed dementia. But I'm sure you've got that all sorted. Oh, I'm aware it's going to be a problem. I'm not sure if I've got it all sorted. But no, one of my supervisors has been on ethics boards before and he said he's happy to support me through that, so, which is good. Yeah, yeah, so important.

I think it's wonderful that you're doing that. And the translation back and forward, I think that research and practice element is so translational and just, yeah, it has the potential to make such a big difference to so many people. So, yeah, and I think immediately for me, the now, obviously in the long run, I can see how this is going to translate into my practice in terms of advocacy at that real macro structural level and looking at things from that real structural level. But I'm finding even now just starting it in my work, I'm already naturally

remembering to look at macro issues more. And then when I'm working with people, whether it's, you know, they have a dementia or some other form of a disability that is impacting on their capabilities, just remembering to keep them, as you said, at the center of that conversation and encouraging people to have those really hard conversations with their families early on so that they can keep that choice and control. So their family knows what it is that they would want. So if heaven forbid a situation happens where you can't communicate your wishes, your family knows what your wishes would be, whether that's dementia or, you know, brain injury or whatever it is. So yeah, so just the conversation around end of life and how to keep choice and control over end of life to me is really important, whether that's voluntary assisted dying or whatever other aspect that you want to look at.

Given that you've worked within the university and you've been a student there, do you see any changes over time in terms of how social work is taught or just developments in the profession at all? Like I've only taught a couple of subjects at the University of Newcastle, which is where I did my undergrad. But overall, I think one of things I'm noticing is there's a lot more cultural competency coming into it. So a lot more emphasis in every single course on Indigenous people, you know, not just on the subjects that are dedicated to working with Indigenous people, but how that is weaved in through the whole degree, I think is really important. But in terms of other differences and how it's taught, I mean, courses evolve over time, right, with technology and various things. So obviously using online forms of communication is a huge change since COVID. And but the flip side of that is also how, you know, because I have taught some classes over Zoom and you just don't get the same critical conversation and critical thinking and level of engagement as you would in a classroom. But then trying to explain that to first years, whether at the beginning of that critical.

thinking journey and saying, no, no, you do have to actually come in. This is worth it. I know you don't see it now, but actually is worth it. Yeah, and then obviously the advent of AI as a whole other stress, which is above my pay grade to worry about. But yeah, I think the biggest change for me in terms of what we are teaching is around the cultural competency side of things, which I think given the history of social work in that space is really, really important, that the next generation of social work is going to be, you know,

is going to be quite competent. I know when I graduated, I still, it's not an area that I'm confident in. I'm not confident in fully understanding the trauma for Indigenous people and I'm trying to learn more and I'm trying to do as much as I can in that space for my own development, but it's a hard area for someone who hasn't been taught it from a young age. Yeah. And it is also hard telling someone that they will probably never be culturally competent and the best they could hope for is cultural awareness when you're the one teaching it, yes, it's a little bit of a hard thing of saying, I'm not the expert, neither are you, let's work this out together. That's probably the best approach. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I should have been using the word cultural awareness through all of that.

Yeah. But even that in itself, yeah, and that's a perfect example of what I mean, that it's an ongoing journey for, I think, everyone in that space. But again, that social work, isn't it, whether we're looking at cultural awareness or, you know, feminism or ageism or anything like that, it's constantly trying to critically reflect and be reflexive, not just reflective in how we learn. What do you think is the hardest part about the work you're doing, whether that's the research or the work in the facility or in supporting students or a combination of both? It could just be the balance trying to figure out how to work all that. Definitely at this stage for me, balance.

I said, two little kids as well, so not burning out, which is really important. And that was, yeah, I hit that point last year. So I've been really trying to be conscious this year of maintaining a better balance. Other things, to be honest, in terms of my work, it's just the usual stuff that you'd get in a workplace, you know, dealing with whatever bureaucracy you're working within, you know, working within that space. In terms of the research, the hardest thing for me has been trying to remember what it's like to be a student. and actually going back to that space

and bringing out those skills of literature reviews and things like that that I haven't stretched for a while. And it can be, and this is something I'd say to students, it can be exhausting because, you know, whether I'm with a student providing that external supervision or whether I'm with a client, if you look at me, I might just be sitting there nodding. And that's all I'm physically doing.

But the mental work I'm doing behind that nod and the emotional pouring out and being that person to hold other people's emotions can be really quite draining and exhausting. And then I get home and I just don't want to talk to anyone. I don't want to hear anyone. I don't want to deal with anyone's meltdowns because they're, you know, cheese, toasty was cut the wrong way. I just don't want to deal with it. But yeah, work life balance is that, you know, you have to find a way to be able to deal with that. I don't know if that exactly answers your question about what is the hardest bit. Exactly.

It does. Yeah. And I think there's so much humility in acknowledging that not knowing. So going back to study and studying something that hasn't been studied before is completely different to the first time around. But that's, I think, what makes it exciting is going, hang on a minute, I have the ability to not just absorb and engage in some really interesting conversation and learn for myself. I'm learning for other people right now.

So, yeah, I think that's so cool. And I think that would be energizing. But at the same time, it takes that much more out of you when you're trying to be everything for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you hit the nail on the head there. And that's one of the reasons why I, one of the many parts of, you know, when I said my life was at the point where it was the right time for me to do it,

was I needed something to re-energize me. And that was one of the reasons why now was the right time for me to go do that PhD. It's a very different part of my brain that I'm using. It feels good. I kind of flip between it feels good and I feel completely overwhelmed. Yeah, which is fine. Yeah, you just ride that wave and you know it'll pass. In those times when it doesn't feel great, what actually does energize you? How do you get through that? I find getting out and going for a walk and if I'm lucky enough to, you know, my husband works from home. So if he's able to come with me, I can talk it out to I find that's how I process things by talking. Yeah, that's probably my biggest one.

Taking a break and finding someone I can talk it out with whether that's my husband or my supervisor or whoever it might be. Yeah. And what's going well? Are there any sort of wins that you can see that help push you along? Absolutely. Within my research space, just that I'm doing it, I think is a huge win. When I'm working with students seeing their growth and when they understand a concept or the other day we had a class that was about older people and the conversation with that group of first years was so good like we were talking about some really tricky ethical dilemmas and they were really engaging with it and bringing forward some really great conversations so that was lovely and then in terms of my work with people it again it's the similar thing it's when i can see that growth

or i can see how someone has become more empowered and has more control over their life and has more self-determination for whatever reason. And then, as I said at the beginning, one of the great things about that work is that I'm able to explore all areas of social work. So I do the one-to-one to work. I do the family systems work. We also run therapeutic or psychoeducation community events.

So I'm hosting a fourth-year student at the moment and she just put on an amazing, are you okay day event? And you felt the energy in the room and you heard afterwards residents going around talking to each other, going, are you okay? and actually stopping and listening to people. When you see things like that, you just think, yeah, this is an awesome community to work in.

I am so blessed that people are willing to take on my input. I'm not having, mostly, not having to argue, you know, it's a voluntary space. So they're willing to take on my input and they make those changes. They do the work themselves. I'm just there to sort of guide them and maybe nudge them or give them some information

to help them make a more informed choice. So yeah, so those are the wins I see. Yeah, or I run a monthly carers group and sitting there and listening to people being so willing to be open and vulnerable about the challenges that they have as being a carer. I just sit back some days and look at that group thing. You are all amazing. You're just not only the work that you're doing for your loved one, but the fact that you're willing to come here and share and be vulnerable about that. It constantly amazes me how vulnerable people will be if given the opportunity. Yeah, you've obviously made it a really safe space for them.

Well, yeah, but it's the community as well. As I said, like I very much view my role there is it's not me actually doing anything, it's me sitting alongside them and listening to what they want and then helping them guide that way to do it and trying to give them the tools to make that happen for themselves. So yes, it is a safe space, but it's a safe space because they've made it a safe space. Sure, sure they've got ownership of it. Yeah. So you've got a student. I imagine your social work colleague that you job share with is co-supervising. Is that the arrangement? Yes. Yes. Person my job share with hasn't been out of uni for quite as long as I do. So I'm kind of the official, like I'm signing off on the hours. I've been doing the supervision. But really that's the only two things that I do that she's not.

I think that's probably a really good example of because a lot of people I know who are part-time think that's a reason why they couldn't supervise a student. Whereas if you've got someone who can assist on the other days, I would imagine, I haven't, I've only ever supervised, not co-supervised, but I would imagine if you're co-supervising a student, the times that you come in from the days that you were off, you just notice, it's like when you bring a baby home from the hospital for the first time. And everyone who comes to visit you was like, oh my God, they've gotten so much bigger. And really? I see them every day.

I don't notice it. Whereas you coming in with those, even like a two-day, three-day gap, you'd probably notice the things that they're picking up more than they do even. Yeah. And look, the person I job share with, you know, we have a really lovely relationship. We communicate well and I think we complement each other's styles very well. But I think one example was our student had only been there. I think for two days, one or two days, I'd been there with her and then I had a day off. So she was with the other worker. And I went back in the next day. And I was like, all right, so what did you get up to? Yes. And she's like, I was off seeing people individually. You know, she such and such came along with me and introduced me to someone. And then she left. And I did. And I don't. And I don't. And I was like, oh. And how was that? She's like, yeah, it was great. Like I really found that I could own that space in it.

And I was like, awesome. Fantastic. So I think it's actually helped the student grow quickly as well because, yeah, she has two of us to watch, two of us to observe. But yeah, she's not stuck in sort of one person's way of learning either. So she can kind of learn how she needs to learn. Is there scope for you to receive supervision then within where you're working? you're working. Yeah. Look, I hate that I have to say I'm very blessed in this because I think supervision is so important for social workers. But the organisation I work for now, I remember

asking an interview, what was their supervision arrangements? And it was just immediately, very supportive. They fund it. I do it in work hours. I just had to find my own supervisor and I book it in. Nice. So it's an external supervisor, but they very much see it as an essential part of my practice. And that was the messaging I got at interview that as an employed social worker, it was my responsibility to engage in supervision. I think it's sad that not everywhere that employees social workers has that attitude. Are there any other areas of social work that you've been interested in exploring? I know now is not the time, but if the wind were to take you off in another direction,

what would you find interesting? Ooh, that's a hard question actually. What would I? Look, I did try just before COVID, a bit of private practice. You can see how I was really exploring for direction in my career. with young people and then COVID came and just kind of killed it a little bit and then I just never went back to it. But yeah, considering that I went into this career thinking I absolutely wanted to work with children and I never did, if there was some way I could keep my current career and then

there was another five days in the week and I could also explore that, I would look at doing that. But I think also just, oh look, what would I explore that I haven't already? Yeah, I'm keen to to keep exploring the academic space and seeing how that balances with practice as well. Policy development and that sort of high level macro area of social work is something that, again, I think social workers don't think about much, but I think it's really important for social workers to be involved in that space in some way, you know, whether that's actually working in policy development or advocacy or research. Yeah, I think that's not something I've actually thought of if the blue sky, what would I do?

if I had all the time. Yeah, but it sounds as though whatever you do, you'll just continue to learn, you'll continue to attend conferences and hopefully pass on that learning not just in the practice environment but also to students and that sort of thing. So that's cool. Yeah. And certainly, I mean, what's the point of learning all these new things if you're not going to be able to pass it on?

What's the point of doing research if you're not passing it on? I think that is key to social work that we don't hold knowledge, we don't get jealous about it, we share it as much as we possibly can. Yeah, for sure. If people wanted to learn more about this area, whether it's the research side of things or the aged care side of things, are there any good resources or media or anything that people could access? With age care social work, it's a tricky space because it's a growing space, but it's

still a very small space. Like as we spoke about, there's no government funding for age care social workers within age care facilities. So I think if you're wanting to learn more about the opportunities, listening to podcasts such as this one, that interview social workers who work in that space, I think is really important and a good way to, I guess, really work out firsthand what your day-to-day might look like if you wanted to go into that work. Yeah, in terms of other resources for that, unfortunately I'm not aware of a great many.

And then in terms of the research, again, engage in the research, you know, jump on your databases and see what social workers are researching, go talk to a university and see what they have available. And again, listen to stories of people who are actually doing it. So jump on LinkedIn as well. I think LinkedIn is actually pretty good. It's how you and I connected. It's a pretty good resource to trying to connect with other people

and see what's out there. And then actually just reach out to someone and say, hey, can you tell me a bit about what your day-to-day work is? Because I'm interested in learning more. There was actually a really good podcast episode on, voluntary assisted dying, which I would direct people to. It's from the Social Work Stories podcast, and those two hosts are just incredible Liz and Mim Fox. Yeah. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to talk about another podcast. Oh, absolutely. I love, I love their podcast and I think

anyone who wants to know anything about anything should go. Basically, it's like fly on the wall supervision. So they have a person who presents a case and then they unpack it after just with the two of them. So this one from towards the end of last year delved into the nuances around social workers supporting individuals who are supporting other people through the voluntary assisted dying space. And it was really contextual around that point because that's when things were happening in New South Wales. So just really timely stuff and incredible work that we're doing. So yeah. Yeah, I know the episode you're talking about and they spoke to a social worker who was at the forefront of supporting people who, as he said, have been supporting people.

And that was a really interesting discussion again around how she was really paving the way because there is no sort of format on how to support someone who has, someone has passed away from voluntary sister dying. And the student I have at the moment actually did her Honour's thesis on that as well about how do you support family members? And again, you know, we spoke earlier about how suicide or voluntary sister dying, you know, really should be a relational topic. It's not really an individualistic topic. So then you have questions of, well,

is the family supportive of the person's decision? Is the family not supportive of the person's decision? And then how do you support that person afterwards if the person, so most jurisdictions in Australia have a nominated support person, the person going through voluntary sister dying users, I guess, and talks to, and it's usually a family member, but then how do you support

that person afterwards, you know, with the immense grief that they might have or some of them may have feelings of guilt, even though it was the person's choice, how do you do that when there's no blueprint for it? And that was one of the things I spoke about and one of the things that really stood out to me when I listened to that episode as well. Yeah. And I love grief and loss series. So good. The thing that I've noticed in my work, I work with people who are catastrophically injured at work and it does come up not regularly but infrequently enough to be something that I think we need to talk about more but what I find is there's a lot to do with supporting my colleagues who are supporting the people who are making those decisions so as social workers as psychologists whatever

I work with a lot of allied health professionals who need to grapple with that yes it goes against the ethos of what we're doing here we're meant to be supporting someone's treatment rehab and care but they're so focused on supporting the family member or the person who's making the decision who's supporting them and that's what i'm really passionate about is making sure that you know the work we do is hard enough without taking all of it on board and feeling as though it's your sole responsibility to carry everything yeah so yeah i think that's a whole other PhD though yes but it and that's one of the exciting things about this area is that there are so many different new nuances that you can go into and so many different areas you can consider. Yeah, it's an exciting

space. I'm really excited to be a part of it and I'm excited to see how it grows and develops as well. There's also a really good online training course that you can complete through UTAS. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's the Understanding Dementia course. Yeah. So it only takes about 10 hours. It's offered twice a year, I think, self-paced and it's really good. It's very interactive. It's got lots of videos. I think, yeah, for anyone who would like to know a little bit more about dementia, even just from a, you can kind of skim through bits if you're not as interested as perhaps I am in the neurological and the actual chemical side of things, because I'm a bit of a nerd. But if you're just interested in the purely social response and effect, it lays the groundwork in a really supportive, compassionate way. So I definitely recommend that as at least a starting point. Yeah.

Yeah, it's funny you say that I did that course. It would have been when it first started coming out probably almost 10 years ago, if not more. And what I remember from it is the neurological science part of it. But I think that just speaks to the nerdy side of me. But also the fact that I think the social aspect of that course was so related to the work I was doing it kind of, that wasn't as eye-opening for me, I guess.

But yeah, you're right. If you're coming into it fresh, then that's a great course. one actually if I've got any students in that space I recommend. Yeah, nice. Because it's free. It is free. We've discussed so much and I honestly feel like I can go on forever just talking about the nuances and the ethical considerations and all the research things that you're about to undertake.

But is there anything that we haven't touched on or anything you want to kind of leave listeners with in terms of the work that you're doing? I think if anyone's listening to this and they're wondering if social work is the right career, for them, I'll just encourage them to, you know, have a look at, I mean, we're an ethics-based career. So have a look at things like our Code of Ethics. And if that speaks to you, then go for it. I talked to a lot of students about trying not to get too bogged down in the technicalities of what your day is going to look like because it is such a broad career and there's so many different things you can do with it. And, you know, I was listening to some of your podcast the other day

and just listening to people who have just done so many different things with their social work degree. And, you know, there was one lady who'd been to India and had interviewed people over there. It was just, it's a fascinating space. So, yeah, if anyone's interested in it, then just, as I said, if the moral part of it and the ethical side of things speaks to you, then go for it. Yeah. And I think that's what happened with you. You know, you had that passion for teaching and you found social workers a potentially really satisfying. career path and realized fairly early on that, yes, this was the thing for you. I think the remote

placement in Broken Hill really fascinating, just for you to see how people can collaborate. And as I said earlier, throw you in the deep end of just figure it out. And that's what you've had to do all the way. It's just, okay, I've landed here. This opportunity has fallen on my doorstep. What do I do? but that diversity of experience, I think, really speaks to what social workers are capable of, that we've got this foundation that we continue to build on throughout our career. And I think the fact that you've had a lot of part-time roles is allowed for that flexibility and that learning and for you to really evolve a program or a role so that it's suited to what your strengths are rather than this is a cookie cutter.

I'm a social worker. Okay, what does that mean? what does the social work role mean if I'm in it, which I think I've always been really conscious of and I've tried to encourage my students to think this is the way that I operate in this space. I would like or encourage you to figure out what kind of social worker you might be in this space. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I often say to students, you are the tool of your practice. So that means you need to know what that will look like day to date, but you also need to look after yourself and you need to remember that if you are feeling burnt out, you need to

pause and reflect and work out what you need to do because you are your tool. So you need to, you know, treat yourself like that. Which is a lot easier to say than it is to do. I think it's, you know, exactly. You've spent so much of your working life making space for people and especially your carers who are coming in and creating that program so that they feel supported it is really wonderful. But I think coming back to that strong focus that you've had around maintaining dignity and human rights and exploring and showcasing the differences between people, which sometimes is heightened when someone does develop dementia

because you see the nuances that perhaps were veiled before or people say less of a filter. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think that provides someone with an opportunity for their personality to really come out. And that's when you see the human side of things and the beauty in the person. Yeah. And I often see that with females as well. You know, older females, especially at the beginning of that dementia journey where people might be saying, oh, she's a bit sparky or, yeah, it's like, well, maybe she always has been.

But from a, you know, being told by the patriarchy her whole life, she needs to be meek and mild. And now, good honor. Congratulations. Yeah. You're hearing her voice. That's a, yeah, something that I really, yeah, I think bringing that lens into it as well is a really nice way of looking at it. But yeah, maybe it's people just being themselves. Amanda, thank you so, so much. I've loved the opportunity to chat with you and thank you for

taking the time. And I just, yeah, I'm so excited to see where this goes. Once you've figured out your question and your sort of methodology, I'd love to touch back with you and just no doubt for a little bit. But I'm really keen to see where it takes you as are you. I'm sure you got so many questions in your head and it's hard to focus on one. But. yeah thank you again for taking the time and for sharing that experience with me no thank you thank you very much yeah as you said nerding out i love talking about it so thanks again talk about at any time thanks for joining me this week if you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or amanda please visit my anchor page at anchor dot fm slash social work spotlight

you can find me on facebook instagram and twitter or you can email swspotlight podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Jordan, an accredited social worker and clinical supervisor. Jordan has worked in a variety of fields such as service coordination, aged care, mental health, drug and alcohol, and currently works within schools. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you will notify when this next episode, is available. See you next time.