Social Work Spotlight - Episode 126: Loren

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

In this episode I speak with Loren, who has predominantly worked within the domestic, family and sexual violence sector. Loren discusses how her career has intersected with other disciplines along the way and how these experiences have shaped how she practices as a social worker. Loren currently works as Senior Practitioner supervising an interstate team supporting victim-survivors of financial abuse with coaching.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:UNSW’s Tackling economic and financial abuse linked to domestic and family violence - https://www.unsw.edu.au/news/2023/01/tackling-economic-and-financial-abuse-linked-to-domestic-and-famCentre for Women’s Economic Security - https://cwes.org.au/ and https://www.financialsafety.org.au/Economic Abuse Reference Group - https://earg.org.au/MoneyMinded program - https://www.anz.com.au/about-us/esg/financial-wellbeing/moneyminded/NSW Health sexual assault services - https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/parvan/sexualassault/Pages/info-sexual-assault-victims.aspxMarrickville Legal Centre’s Savvy Finance program - https://www.mlc.org.au/savvy-finance/Commonwealth Banks’ financial abuse resource centre - https://www.commbank.com.au/support/financial-abuse.html?ei=resourcesGood Shepherd’s financial independence hub - https://goodshep.org.au/services/fih/Berry Street’s MoneyMinded program - https://www.berrystreet.org.au/learning-and-resources/our-training-and-consultancy-services/moneymindedThis episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13olBfUXrECy1kLoCGj5lhkC50Tp8gS8tKkF-8O6ck0w/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Jasmine Lucas, and today's guest is Lauren, who has predominantly worked within the domestic family and sexual violence sector. Lauren discusses how her career has intersected with other disciplines along the way, and how these experiences have shaped how she practices as a social worker. Lauren currently works as senior practitioner, supervising an interstate team supporting victim survivors, of financial abuse with coaching. Lauren's hope as a practitioner is to continue working with domestic family and sexual violence victim survivors in line with trauma-informed principles

and follow their lead towards their version of re-empowerment. Thank you, Lauren, for joining me on the podcast today. I'm excited to have a chat with you about your experience so far. Thank you, Jasmine, for having me. I'd like to ask what brought you to the profession and what has led to this point in your career. What led me to social work? When I thought about this question, it was probably when I did society and culture in high school,

learning about different societies in different countries and different ways of living. And I guess different norms. And I guess it made me start thinking about, you know, the status quo and, you know, how different people, you know, see right and wrong or what is normal in inverted commas. and I wanted to be a part of that. And I think also at that part, the HSE project was doing like a thesis on, I think it was your PIP, your personal interest project. And mine was about whether you inherited the way that you are through your genes

or whether you, whether it was the environment, like where did it lean more? And as I dove into that project, like the more I could see how, even though you do have these inherent qualities within, it's the environment that can sometimes bring out those traits of characteristics in yourself and I guess that's when I was like okay well where we live and how we live has a big impact on who we are as people and I thought that's where I saw myself and I definitely saw when I went to my careers advisor she was like oh maybe social works the right job for you and so then I was like okay

trust the careers advisor and then I applied at the University of Sydney for the social work bachelor's and then I decided to take a gap here because like let me just sit on this to see if it's the right fit and yeah I signed up and I have no regrets it was such an eye-opener and I think the faculty let all those topics that help you prepare to be your social work go really well and of course you have your cohort of peers that you're able to bounce your learnings off and you know share those different perspectives and there's also like a I feel like a really diverse cohort as well. Yeah, that's what led me to sign up for my bachelor's back in 2013.

Do you think having that year off changed the way you then came back and approached your studies? Did you have sort of different experience or different maturity, do you think, going into it? I think so. When I had my gap year, I needed to find a job. So I was a legal assistant at a suburban law firm that exposed me to, I guess, convenancing law, estate law and some family law as well. And I think something that at the age of 18, I didn't think I would be getting myself too involved in. But when I started uni, and I think when you've progressed into like the third year,

when you start talking about, you know, like guardianship care directives, when you're working with people that are the end of their life and then, you know, the things that they prepare for that I had that, I guess, kind of insight. And I think also just, I guess, an entry level view of the impact that legal or social justice system have in the social environment. But I think also when I started my role at Magibor Legal Centre, the community legal sector, then that kind of showed how it could hold those social and legal lenses in the same space. So I think at the time I didn't think it made a difference,

but when I did get into my first trial, I did notice how it did help me start my social work career. And what were your placements as you were going through? Well, my first placement was going to be at an EAP service, and they pulled out the day before. So then they quickly allocated me to a disability support service. And I was working in mainly group facilitation work, the school leaves employment,

scheme, so focusing on soft skills to help, I guess, young adults that are living with disabilities feel ready to apply for jobs. And everyone's goals were a bit different. And it was mainly talking about, you know, what are some of the qualifications that you might want to have on your resume when you do apply for these jobs or how to have those conversations about articulating your strengths and skills? So that was really cool. There was a three-month placement. And then my second placement was at a sexual assault service at hospital in Sydney. And I think that kind of sparked my interest in working in the domestic family and sexual violence sector.

And it was a team of mainly social workers and one psychologist. And it was just really inspiring, I think. And a lot of people that I still keep in touch with today, there were, I guess, those early mentors that I'm glad I found as I was wrapping up my degree. And they were very, I guess, had that trauma-informed lens, you know, the power control wheel, you know, debunking like myths and misconceptions about sexual assault. And I think also giving information and knowledge to victim survivors so that they understand what they're going through. And I feel like their counselling approach was really like walking alongside them as well,

which I found really eye-opening. I think maybe if it wasn't a social work, predominantly a social work team may have been really different counselling experience, but also incorporating like narrative therapy and cognitive behavioural therapy. But I think also keeping that social lens in the counselling sessions as well was really, has informed how I approach conversations today, I think, in my work still. What great examples of that theory to practice translation, because those are all things that you would have learned about, but also you've got the direct practice with both of those roles, but there would have been, I imagine, some back-end advocacy and policy work to inform the work

that you were doing and you could see the gaps and you could hopefully try to change things on the back end. So yeah, really cool examples and really diverse as well. And I guess the second one worked a little bit more towards that counselling role that you might have had in the first placement but I feel like that first placement whoever took that on was a lifesaver like things could have been very different for you if that hadn't happened last minute I know and I think at the time when you're a student you're just like you're so keen to get that placement experience and then yeah as soon as I found that I'm like oh no like it's going to set me back but it was it was a blessing in that sense because thinking about like working in a AP service as a first place

we're not having that face-to-face interaction is a whole different set of skills and I think even though I use that a lot in my current role if I didn't have that face-to-face experience beforehand like I pressure completely differently. But yeah, I think I also appreciated having a placement that did focus on group facilitation group work skills and then I had a placement that was focused on like that one-on-one work and call-out responses so then I felt I had it was able to dabble with supervision and ill lot of areas of social work just through my placements. And in a sexual assault service, like anywhere in a hospital, I assume there was an on-call aspect of it, which you wouldn't have had to be part of, but then you would have had to kind of catch up the next day and figure out what had happened overnight. How was that for you, just kind of listening to what people were going through and observing other social workers who were confronted with quite difficult situations? Yeah, so,

You're right, it was not an expectation to be part of a call-out response, but I guess I was privileged to be a part of a call-out response as part of my placement in that victim-survivable of comfortable with me being there and able learning from that. And my observations were how well the counsellor and the medical officer or the sexual assault nurse were working well together to hold that conversation. and then you just showing the respect that they had for each person's expertise and how they could co-lead the conversation that didn't mean that the person had to repeat their story twice to two different practitioners.

And I think there's still some sexual assault services today that still have, you know, the counsellor speak first and then the doctor comes in. So I think just seeing that from the outset just showing me the power of, you know, multiple disciplinary work happening in its finest. In terms of the stories, I think, and the experiences of victim survivors, it's really brave, I think, for them to, in a crisis response, to be able to process what's happening and, you know, how the social worker and the doctor were able to hold that space. A trauma-informed space really well, like the room was separate from the general ED, which made a difference. There was not that external noises and havoc around them. We always checked if they needed food or if they needed water, but also not impacting any

evidence gathering as well, like informing of that impacts first before they decided to take that. Everything was offered as an option. And I think also just identifying who their safe people were and what they needed right in that moment. Yeah, and I think it was also quite a lengthy, I guess a longer engagement when you think about call out responses. And it can be sometimes lots of people involved. Like sometimes the police are involved. Sometimes there's a parent or a friend that's involved as well. And then whether a sake assessment is carried out as well,

which I think for the victim survivor after something like that happens can be quite overwhelming. But there's also, I guess it was just a great setup in the sense that they were able to have a space outside the general ED where they could just not need to be in the havoc of other presentations having on the alongside them they were able to just processing, you know, to save the space and feel, I guess, have a kind environment to process all that. And probably also, hopefully, feeling very supported because there are multiple people that are there

helping them to feel safe in that time. Yeah, exactly. And I think that was only one, I guess, call that response that I was able to see on placement. And then I guess the next day when you see the notes and the plan moving forward. debriefing was happening a lot after those fallouts and they would be mindful of like where that happens and how that happens as well yeah and I think that it was also

the great thing about the sexual assault services is that follow-up medical and counseling intervention that they can have with the team afterwards it's not solely that just happens other once off they can come back to those practitioners for any that suitable follow-up that all concerns that they have And how did that then guide you into your professional life? What did you want to do after leaving that? Well, I was lucky enough to be recruited on the on-call roster. So I was able to continue supporting that team through a call-out response.

And I was in that role for two and a half years and that was a casual position. And one of the councillors there knew someone in a community legal centre that was looking for a domestic violence. social worker and they thought that I would be great for that role. So I applied to the interview. It was lucky that I got the job. So right after I finished my last assessment for my social work degree, the next week or two, I was starting my full-time role as a DB worker at the community legal centre. It's even more amazing that you had that gap here then because otherwise you wouldn't have had any downtime. I know. I know. I think that's the other thing I when I think about my social work degree. Usually it's like a four-year degree, but with the gap year and

when I did it pass on my units, I had to do another year and do that part-time. I was able to take my time with that. So I just dove straight into the role. But I was happy to also be like well supported by that team in terms of like supervision because when you don't work in a, I guess, a health setting with other social workers, you have to set up your own supervision. And as a new grad, I'm like, I don't know how to do that. So then I was like asking them for advice and they said that, oh, we'll be happy to provide you with that supervision as you start off. And I was able to get that weekly, which was not really common for a lot of people.

But I was really grateful because it was also only social worker at the community legal centre. So having that regular supervision with other social workers was really important. Yeah, I was about to ask what the makeup was of the other people there. And it's great that they prioritise that for you and they recognise that. but what was the makeup of everyone else there and why did they decide that a social worker was important to have? So I think they had received family violence funding from the state government and that was to support the clients who were experiencing domestic and family violence and because their community legal centre had a lot of solicitors working in the criminal law and family law,

the prevalence of domestic and family violence was coming. through the clients that they were seeing and the benefit of having an I guess an in-house social worker to give it like that sociolegal response at the same time and i think it was also interesting at the beginning about you know discussing my role as a manchure reporter versus like their responsibility of legal professional privilege and acknowledging that those roles are really different and that their clients were aware when they were speaking with me that had different professional responsibilities and I think also when you are experiencing domestic family violence like it's everyone's journey into the service sector is different so sometimes it could be the first person they're

speaking to is a lawyer and then rather than like a social worker or or 100 respect so I think it's just making sure that even though they are addressing the legal side that they're also thinking about getting that risk assessments as safety assessments just as general needs as well as well that a case worker, a case manager can offer them. So I was handed over that role because that worker went on Matleave and she was doing a lot of, so the role involved court support group work facilitation as well as that casework support. And they also had funding to do. It was like a learning workshop for victim survivors on how to navigate the family law system when they were going through post separation.

So I was wearing lots of hats in that role. Yeah. Really, really early on. And it means that you would have had to understand the system yourself very well, right? Yeah, and I think that was the benefit of, you know, working with the family law solicitors and the criminal law solicitors really well. And I think one of the things that really helped me in that role is, I guess, the rapport building that I had with the staff.

And I think having that experience in a multidisciplinary setting, like in a hospital or community health and then moving into the community legal sector, just, I guess, respecting their expertise and also respecting mine and making sure we're working more collaboratively. Well, I was going to ask along those lines, was there ever a point at which those two things didn't meet in terms of they've got different priorities to what you have in terms of responsibilities were there cases where you got it head sometimes and really had to put your social work hat on and advocate and say no actually this is my role this is your role let's make this work yeah definitely yeah I think it could be as small as like how they speak about when

they use the word alleged or you know what's the best course of action of going to the police and not going to to the police about something and then I think we would ultimately be very client-centered on. I think we would give the client both sides of the impacts of a certain way forward and then they would make that decision. So I think even when we did disagree through the lenses we were using, we were always able to come back to the client and what they wanted. And I think I was lucky because I know that a lot of people there are in isolated positions feel like they're not heard or can be overlooked in those discussions but I think at that time like I was even though I was a sole practitioner like they could see the value in my role and I think we were

able to balance that when we were able to support victim survivors in that setting. Yeah nice. Was that funding time limited or was it kind of an ongoing project that they had? It was annual funding so even though it was rolling it didn't provide that job security yeah which i think is quite common in the community sector and i think overall i guess with dv funding in new south wales too i think maybe only recently they would have been looking at you know three to four year funding rounds but at that time that was like annual and i was with also reporting requirements as well that i was involved with you know really early on again in my social work career being able to

to fire my work in a report space and show the qualitative benefits of having a social worker in the community legal centre too. So yeah, I was glad that I had that regular supervision, but then I also had my manager directly in the practice who was a managing principal solicitor, had a lot of faith in me and my abilities as well. And I think also the fact that I was working in a law firm and legal administration for around four years as well, help me be able to do those reports a lot easier. Yeah. It's just weird thinking about it all now.

Yeah. Just demonstrating that work is hard when you know the impact it's having, but the funding sources don't necessarily see it from that perspective. And I'm casting my mind back to community days where it can be just that one year at a time. And if you're trying to run workshops and build on those workshops and demonstrate the value of over time it's impossible because you can't sustainably plan anything you're just kind of you end up doing the same things over and over because there's no trajectory you have it in your head but if you're given one year at a time there's nothing to build on necessarily which can be disheartening

yeah and i think also like i guess all organizations the person we were leasing with with the funding was changing every year so you're you're kind of pitching it fresh each time you're trying to renew your funding. And the other thing, oh yeah, the other thing I forgot about is that like I started that role during the first wave of COVID as well. So it was initially face to face and then it was a 2020 that first wave of COVID hit and then we had to at least for domestic and feeling violence services we were able to be face to face but I guess everything else in that in the sense of ends up becoming more remote working. So then it was also trying to navigate how to navigate how can I work safely with these people in a COVID setting and staying connected to your

team as well because yes you're slightly out because you're a contractor effectively but trying to maintain that camaraderie with those people would have been really difficult yeah and when I think about the team like they were a lot of people that were in the 30s and the 20s and the early 40s and I guess they were able to connect well online, I think, which I was really grateful for. And then there was still some people that were able to come to the office in a COVID safe way that I guess I think like a lot of teams, they would have just had to rally and just try and do the best that they can in the circumstances. And I did feel, sometimes it was, did feel isolating, but I think I was also, when I was able to get out of my own head, I was able to reach

out and just connect and realize that it's not just me that. that's able to help or able to work. So yeah, that was, that was just thinking about that. That was a lot. There was a lot. Yeah. And you would have been able to see firsthand the impact that COVID had on some of those family relationships and people's safety and, yeah, just their ability to

have other options when everyone was locked down, right? Yeah. And I think just, I guess the laws were also changing and like what was acceptable face to face and what wasn't and I guess trying to think of like safe spaces that victim survivors could go to if they were had any safety concerns and I was also doing the on-court work at the same time at the hospital so then in that setting there was a big focus on like PPE and how you would triage a call out would have to consider whether you had COVID or any risks of COVID as well just thinking about now there was just a lot of things that.

so I was juggling at the same time. And trying to build rapport with someone when you're masked up and face shielded. And there's just, there are so many barriers to actually engaging with someone. Yeah. How did you then know it was time to move on? Was it the frustration of the lack of funding? Was it something else came up? What happened for you then?

Yeah, I think the impact of the funding did play a role. Because I was getting to the age, I was thinking about, you know, whether I see. for like house deposit how does it look like when I'm on like an annual funding contract and stuff like that and I guess when I just started looking I came across a role that was working in the domestic and family violence space but more on coercive control and in a recovery capacity which was very different to the crisis work that I was doing at the time and I felt like I needed a change and I guess the reason I came across that role was there was these financial capability work

that were being run during COVID that were delivered online. And so then this service was using that skill set, but mainly on financial abuse. And during my, the project work that I was doing around, you know, the family law system navigating that, I was like, this sounds like something exciting. It was also backed by a corporate funder and it was also a three-year contract. So it's like, I got to give it a go. And when I did the pre-interview questions, I actually decided that maybe this isn't what I wanted. Because I thought it was very different to casework and what I had seen previously in a social

workspace. And then I said, I wouldn't progress to the next stage. And then when I thought about it for another day, I'm like, no, I think I just got to do the interview and see for myself, like, this is the role that I want. So then I called them back and said, hi, I changed my mind. Is it okay? If you want to consider me, could I progress to the interview? and they were like, yep, and then it was a three-panel interview. And I guess, you know, when you have like those interviews, but you feel like you were, they got it. Like they were asking for my pronouns.

They were telling me like the lands they were working on. They were able to share a bit about their background. And I was like, wow, that's a nice way to like start an interview. I felt like I'd just be so excited to work here. And I could just tell that they still had that recovery lens, understanding of domestic and family violence, like from the interview. where I guess when I think about it now, when I did the community legal centre work, like when you're talking to solicitors, there's a, you know, theoretical understanding, but not that deep sense of understanding. And I feel like I could see that in the interview when I was interviewing for this role.

And then I found out the next day that I progressed the next stage. And then I got interviewed by the national program manager. And then I got offered the role. So that was in May 2021. And I was really excited. I think it was also good to work with one of the other social workers, but psychologists or community workers that had a diverse range of experience. And then I was, because it's the National Service, I was working with people, you know, in a hybrid model where people are working with their in Victoria, people are working with her in Queensland. So that was exciting too.

And I think that's a perfect example of how you have the ability to ask questions off the panel in an interview. I think a lot of people think, oh, what am I going to ask? What am I going to ask? Let's make something up. That's genuinely, if you're not sure about the role, that's your opportunity to suss them out as well and ask things like, what's your support structure or do you provide supervision? Often if it's an organization that doesn't fit well with your values

or they haven't considered that, that's going to stump them and you're going to know straight away whether it's the right place for you. So I think going at least for the interview and getting a feel for them probably helped you to work out that actually maybe this is a good thing for me. Yeah, definitely. And a couple of the questions were around, like, you know, what values of the organisation resonate most with you and if you could fix any social justice issue, what would be? And I think, like, when you're able to, even for a three-person panel, I did still feel like I was able to stay relatively conversational, which just shows the skills I felt like of the interview panel

as well for someone that's like really nervous about getting a job. So and I'm still at that workplace today. So I've been working there for three and a half years. So it's been really good. And also their organisation offers like fortnightly supervision, which again, I think is something really important, especially in the sector that we work in. I've never been asked a miracle question in an interview.

I think that's such a good idea in that sector of what do you think is the impact you could have if the ducks were to align with, right? That's so cool. Yeah. So the work that you're doing now, take me through what, in social work, there is no typical day, but what do things look like for you on a day-to-day basis then? So at the moment, I am like a senior prac, but I also have like managerial responsibilities. So I do hold a small caseload, but then I'm also leading around five people at the moment.

and each day just depends on which hat I'm wearing that day. So sometimes I do have some coaching sessions. Some days I'm helping with the supervision side of things. And some days I'm doing like that group facilitation work that we have as well. Also attending network meetings with this corporate funder, we also have a lot of chances to go to conferences or be a part of promotional pieces as well. So there have been a couple of, I guess, social media posts. I've been a part of to expand our reach of the program.

And I think also we're constantly trying to figure out the best way to deliver our service as we expand beyond like the eastern side of Australia and look more into, you know, South Australia, Western Australia, and also being able to work more face to face. So because the exciting things I found about this program when I first started is that I joined when it became operational. So it had started from a co-design phase that was consulted with people with the experience of domestic and family violence,

and then they identified, I guess, this service gap in the DV sector. And then I joined that service when it became operational and they were gonna start promoting it, accepting more and more people. So it's also been really interesting, you know, starting from a co-design initial operational phase to now three and a half years down the track on and the reach on the impacts that we've had.

So yeah, so I think I guess my day to day now is a mix of working from home and working in person in the West. And it has, I think I've heard in some of the other podcasts that you had like managing the social work hat and the manager hat at the same time. And I think also like managing people that are from a social work background is also something that's different. and has highlighted to me the importance of the expertise that we have because we're able to, we were taught like multiple frameworks on how to work with individuals and I think we're able to articulate that and then be able to be more fluid in the way that we practice rather than being like this is only way we can do this. So I think I'm really appreciative of that and I've seen the benefit of that in the way that I'm able to talk about my practice and help others as well.

Yeah. It sounds like you're really appreciative of that. really focusing on the strengths and what everyone brings as a person as well as a professional and whatever their learning was. So it's, yeah, it's a very rounded approach to how you support people. Yeah. And because the service I'm working with is, I guess a coach goes through a coaching model, but then a lot of my social work teachings like underpin the way I approach coaching conversations with victims and survivors, where we're thinking about, you know, strengths, we're focused on empowerment. We're also looking at like what external supports

that they have to feel successful. And I guess different to a counselling approach where you're thinking about the past and how to manage the present with coaching, you're really focusing, you do touch on the past because that ultimately impacts today, but then we're very future focused on how we can help them move forward. And that's what I would also really loved about this space

because I guess in the domestic and family violence sector, like once you go through that crisis stage and you're able to get like a lot of intense intervention it gets to a point where you're not considered in that stage where you can have continued ongoing support so they are able to move to a coach and then I guess really focus on their financial independence as they move forward and I think the other goal of the service is to prevent survivors feeling like they have to go back into that relationship to feel financially safe because we know that's one of the big reasons that people don't leave because of the financial responsibility that they would be in especially if they're leaving and they have kids or carrying

responsibilities so yeah i think it was something really new to the db sector that i think was needed but also because it wasn't many services like ours it just you could probably probably be a bit more creative than something that had a history and a really set way of doing things. Yeah, I think so. And I think it was also very focused just on like the financial abuse and the impacts of coercive control had on their finances and recovering from that so they can feel more empowered. And I think also the one of the things about this role is that when you're recovering from financial abuse or trying to take that next step, there's so many financial professions out there and I think you know the financial counselors which I'm I'm a huge advocate for

and I guess like I allies to social workers because they can provide that formal advocacy for people that are in financial hardship and then there's financial coaches that are able to walk alongside them and be more goal-orientated and really bring out the strengths and skills of that person to feel independent and then there's financial advisors and and I think that in between space victim survivors they can get help from a financial council and they can't just go straight to financial advisor like there's a financial capability or coaching in between that I think not all services are able to offer so I feel like it was it's been good in that way and I know that not all social workers or DV workers are able to have those conversations when they are moving out of the

crisis phase it's just like immediate needs and you know making sure that brokerage or any grants and that they can access in the meantime and then the long-term planning is kind of up to them so we're able to step in and kind of help them figure out what they want for themselves or their families in that next stage and I think it's it's also been really helpful because talking about money feels really taboo just in general conversation and I think the ability to hold us a trauma-informed space for them to kind of open about money and not be immediately told what they should do with their money we're asking them like what do you want to do like remind them they have the power and the choice of what their goal is

and what their next step is and just being able to think about the people that we've helped and from when we first met them into where there are now and the impact that has had too and I think again it's just high line to me, but how diverse a social profession can't be at each stage of someone's like recovery journey. And yeah. There's so much stigma around money, as you were saying, and there's layers of disadvantage, which are probably making people feel as though they don't deserve support or that things are just, you know, the structures, the system, even just the capitalist mentality of, you know, I should be at this point, at this stage of my life and the fact that I'm not means that I failed in some way. There's cost of living crisis, which I feel is something

that I'm hearing a lot, but not in a constructive way. Here are the systems that are making it so and here's what we can do and feel empowered to at least feel as though our needs are met. I think that's what a lot of people are missing in that conversation of, yes, there's a problem, but not seeing any sort of translational, systemic, anything, whereas you're having the opportunity to see people where they're at, see their situation, understand the programs and supports that are available and helping a person to work towards that in a way

that optimises their autonomy and value and helps them feel as though, you know, they could eventually take that over themselves and feel as though that's something that they can work, on without support but you're there when they need it which is really wonderful. Yeah and I think now I'm just thinking about jumping from the like working as a social in the legal setting and how the legal system in itself is like can feel like bigger than Ben-her and then you now working in I guess in the financial space where again it's like we assume

there's like experts in money and there's non-experts and you need to you know have done like business of finance to know what you're doing with your money. And I think, again, like, it's been interesting, like, acknowledging that, like, these are the systems that we're working with. This is, like, the money landscape that we're working with. But these are your options that you can do that can bring that small, maybe more long-term change. And I think also just, like, going back to what you said about the cost of living crisis, I think it's also it's a safe space to just validate that that is a real impact and is something that's

not limited to them. And I think sometimes people are just like, oh, I'm not doing this right. And like when you put all the numbers into a budget or when you talk about like all the strategies that they're doing, like they are doing everything. And I think just reflecting that back to them like they realize like I'm already handling it. And I think it's like then they start to believe in themselves a bit more that's like, well, then I can maybe try something different or, you know, and then I think they're also normalizing, I guess, money conversations, also allows them to feel more comfortable having that with their friends and family, and then they learn new things about what they're doing.

And then, yeah, I think it's still definitely taboo, but I think it's definitely improving. And I guess with coercive control, being at the, I guess, a big focus in the DV sector at the moment, it's a really specialised, I guess, part of my work now that feels really important to what's happening. You've just reminded me we had a class very early on in the social work degree. It might have been in the social justice module, but we were, and this is, I think as professionals we're constantly encouraged to reflect on our own situation. And this was probably one of the first times I remember feeling a sense of privilege and

that working class family myself, but we were always comfortable. And then we did this module where we were sat down and we went through this person's, a fictional person's scenario and their budget. And so we were encouraged to go, okay, this is what this cost, that's what that cost, this is the income that they're getting from Centrelink. And that was a demonstration from our teacher to say, this is the poverty line. This is where this person sits. And it was a real eye-opener to me to say, who decides on that poverty line?

What does that mean? what are the things that impact that and what does that mean then going forward in terms of opportunities for people? So that was a really good example, I think, of helping someone to realize that this is actually a lot of the people that we support and a lot of people in community we just don't know about it are living below the poverty line and therefore what impact flow on does that have for their capacity to get ahead or at least feel as though they're bobbing on the surface as opposed to drowning. So you're helping them to see that as well.

Yeah, and I think that's the other thing that I see value in the financial capability, financial coaching space is that, you know, people that go to financial advisors are people that have that money to have options, but the people that we're working with are either, you know, impacted by the family law system or property settlement or child support or, you know, living on a selling income and then there wasn't a space to be able to, I guess, where they can understand those systems and then inform like goals that they can have and see those small changes. And I think that the good thing at the moment is that there is now an economic abuse reference group that is focusing on the systems and advocacy in this space

and the impact it does have. So hopefully we can see more changes in the long term so that we're not having to deal with those systems, abuse for people that are trying to recover. And I think when you're talking about it as well, I feel like self-reflective practice is something that I think has really helped me as well in all my roles. And I think the other thing that my first supervisor helped when I was doing at placement is about, you know, the self in social work and how that also impacts your practice. I guess when I think about myself, I come from like a European and Pacific Islander background, both have very different understandings and values around money.

Once more collectivist and, you know, it's not just my money, it's like our money. And then there's the European leaning more into the western side of like very individualistic and like staying within the family. And I think also that has also helped with the money conversations that I have with participants because you can understand when people are. aren't coming from a non-Western background, like why they feel these financial pressures when they're trying to make decisions around family and friends or community events or church events. So yeah, I think, again, another great thing about social work is that you're able to understand

how yourself and your lived experience impacts a way that you do deliver your practice and how it can also have an impact, have further reach for the people that you're working with. Given that you are fairly early still in your career, but taking on quite a lot of responsibility, what support do you need to keep doing this work and feel as though you're helping, but also looking after yourself? I think one of the good things with both of my roles is that I was able to attend a lot of network groups that were focused on domestic violence and then meet other social workers and experts that I'm able to like case consult.

with or I'm able to debrief with. And I think I also have, I still keep in touch with, you know, my placement from the social service, like those social workers and it's been clear that you need to have mentors and then like those people that are in the same boat as you. So again, reaching out to my social work peers from when I was doing my studies and just getting their view on things, whether they work in an hospital setting, in a child protection setting, or they've also in a community setting. I think that has also helped me a lot. And I think also self-care,

but not just the pretty side of self-care, but just acknowledging like collective burnout, vicarious trauma. And I think learning more about, like, how to look after myself is being an evolution because, like, what used to work for me. The beginning doesn't work for me now, and I think I'm constantly changing that.

I do have, I'm working with the coach at the moment that you is kind of helping me kind of order like what does and doesn't work for me. And I think that comes with like self-reflection as well and just constantly checking in with yourself as well. And I think it's good that we have a couple of social workers within the organization that I can go to or practice consults as well. So I think it's just it's really building and evolving the clinicians and social workers that I'm working with that help me keep their vitality.

in the field. But then also, I think I've been a lot better at saying no to things too, as someone that has balanced a lot of things. And I think I feel more confident now saying like, this is where my focus is on like this week or this footnight or like, you know, bringing it back to the client as well. I think I maybe I struggled with that before and now I feel more confident. It's great that you acknowledge that that's an evolving process and that what worked for you before isn't going to necessarily work now or in 10 years time. And it is, yeah, it's such an individual thing. It's not just taking a bath. It's, you know, just finding out what works for you right now and having support of someone else to do that if you need it. It's

really important. Yeah. And I think a lot of social workers just get impacted by different stories and we think we know how triggers that something else comes up and then we realize, oh, this is the new true with me and I think it's just as long as you're open and you have like those people that you trust to be able to have those confidential conversations with and who are able to like reflect back to you and talk through it and then you're able to come out from that with a learning I think that is something that has really been beneficial for me or just being like yeah man that's like that's hard and just like sitting with it with you for a bit and then but not letting you sit there alone I think it's also has been really helpful for me too.

You mentioned that project that's underway to explore this area and what can be done better, what changes are possible. But where do you see it going, given your experience in the field now? How do you think things can be improved for the people that you look after? What really keeps me motivated and I think inspired is, I guess, the organisation's commitment to lived experience. experience with lived expertise and that there's services that are interested in co-production rather than co-designed. It's not a one-off consultation from people who have gone through this.

It's like we are like hiring them, we're consulting them, where we're working with them to help improve how we work with people. So I think that's one of the positive things in the non-for-profit or community sector that excites me in how we deliver, we continue to look after people. I think I think with coercive control being I guess in the legal lens at the moment the pros and cons of that have been widely debated for last year or two but I know that I guess for the people that I work with if they knew that if financial abuse was a part of that definition of DFE when they were reporting like they probably would have had improved outcomes with the justice system so I'm still hopeful I think the thing is that Nisa can

continually be reviewed, which I think sometimes is not a strength of government, but we need to continually be seeing the effectiveness of these laws and if they're not unintentionally impacting victim survivors, because we know that they can also be reported as a person using violence as well, and then they're subject to that too. So I think the other thing that keeps me on my toes is like being the DV sector, there's so many nuances and changes and there's different state to state. Yeah. I wonder if that then requires a different sort of approach from frontline sectors, even from police, first responders, early intervention stuff, to be able to give people the information they need early on rather than have them fall through the gap and then struggle to

pick themselves back up later or even access those services later. Yeah, exactly. I feel like, yeah, it needs to be a whole of system flow on. Yeah. And I think, I think when I started working as a social worker, like I guess I'm still very early on, but even thinking that the last five years, just the prevalence of domestic and family violence in the mainstream conversation is, I guess, a step forward. And I think that, again, I think as you said, it's not supporting first responders to be able to better identify. And if they can't deal with it, like, they know who they can refer those people to, that

can give them that specialised support will make a big difference. Yeah. If people wanted to know a little bit more about the type of work you're doing or anything that we've discussed today, are they good resources or media or, yeah, even things to read, things that you would point people towards? Definitely. So I know that the UNSW have a lot of research into financial abuse and domestic of family violence. And they also focus on older people, people from culture and linguously diverse backgrounds, working with First Nations people and the unique experiences and the findings around that. There's also the Centre for Women's Economic Security. They have a lot of information about financial abuse and how you can identify and respond to it too. I definitely look up the Economic Abuse Reference Group.

I'd also look up Good Shepherd as well. And I could probably give you a couple more links. Yeah, thank you. Just don't have them on top of my head. That's all good. Send them through and I'll put them in the show notes. Is the money-minded training program still going on? Is that?

It is, yeah. That's how I did financial counseling training, many, many. Yeah. Almost 20 years ago. But yeah, that was really good for people who wanted to be able to then provide support, whether it's counseling, training, actual on-the-ground financial support for people who were, and my context was people from people. refugee backgrounds and newly arrived migrants. So a lot of that was the Australian context as opposed to,

you know, you're quite capable of doing things in a different country, but here is how we can support you to get a sense of where things land. So, okay, I'll find some information about the program and pop that in the show notes as well, maybe. Yeah, I do know about money minded and they also have a family violence module out now too. So I think that's something that is also really helpful when working in this space. Okay. Is there anything that we haven't touched on, anything else you wanted to talk about

in relation to social work or what you do? I just think we're really privileged to be in a profession that can have so much reach in different spaces that whether it's in the health sector, the social justice sector, even when working and dealing with money. So I think I'm just really grateful for the options that I have with social work

and I hope people that are considering it or are in it know that they have a lot of options in too. Yeah, thank you so much for that. And I kind of want to go back to right from the beginning when you were still just learning about society and culture and getting your head around what is social work, because it wasn't something that my career advisor ever mentioned as a potential. I just kind of had to find it out for myself and got very lucky that I did. But while you were doing that, you had this other opportunity to get first-hand experience as a legal assistant, understand that justice system and your own sense of justice and how that all fit together. And then in your placements, you were able to work through

visiting people in crisis, understanding how different professions could work together, observing different practice methods and working as a team, that multidisciplinary team is such great learning as a new social worker, as a developing professional. And then your first role moved into a casual position at the same organization, which is wonderful. I've heard that so much of people who have had their last placement, then being offered a role, which you can then continue because you already understand the context, you know what you're doing there. And then it seems to me like you've used every single part of the placement experiences. So you had the financial support, you had the counselling, you were able to translate that into different kinds of

social work, which again just speaks to the breadth of our profession. And then you've gone through the stages of social work support. You've had crisis. You've had ongoing. And throughout that, you've highlighted the importance of networking and kind of building your tribe and especially early in your career. I think that's so important. So thank you so much for coming and chatting with me about your experience,

about what social work can look like in some very interesting and diverse areas. And I look forward to seeing where it takes you. because you've got so much more ahead of you. Thank you so much, Jasmine, and I appreciate it reflecting on my journey, and I hope people that do listen know it. There's multiple ways to get where you are. And yeah, I appreciate you also just reflecting back to me

in summarizing my journey, because, yeah, you don't always have that opportunity to do that. Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or learn, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com.

I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Kimberly, who has 25 years of practice experience, working alongside individuals, families and communities, responding to interpersonal, institutional, and colonial violence. She teaches in various universities nationally and internationally

and provides supervision to social workers and therapists. Kimberly lives and works on Yuen Country and identifies as a non-Aboriginal settler migrant with white privileges and indigenous ancestry from Mexico. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.