Social Work Spotlight - Episode 15: Kate

Episode Date: October 16, 2020

In this episode, Kate and I talk about the appeal of social work to her for its social justice and advocacy principles, and her broad interests ranging from gender studies and feminism, the intersection of culture and mental health, narrative therapy, and suicide prevention. Kate plans on becoming an accredited mental health social worker in the future as well as dipping her toe into social policy and research.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:· Mental Health Tribunal for Community Treatment orders (CTO) - https://mhrt.nsw.gov.au/the-tribunal/· NSW 2007 Mental Health Act - https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/view/html/inforce/current/act-2007-008· AASW information regarding Accredited Mental Health social work - https://www.aasw.asn.au/information-for-the-community/mental-health-social-workers· Reading about challenging the medical model/DSM - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qmK0rza1RQlvuhZXSyiqiGgZloqmHBbp/view?usp=sharing· Article about the importance of Aboriginal worldviews in mental health practice, consideration of cultural connection and connection to land for Aboriginal people's mental health and wellbeing - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i26uvlkSHSMKKCG9xlw90N8eK2Gf4Fcp/view?usp=sharing· Sydney Social Work Community - https://www.sydneyswc.com/This episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F0nYuY8PuPCZfjW8k2Xsj0hIfM2_nTK0/view?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode. I'm your host, Yasamine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Kate. Kate is an early career social worker, having completed her degree last year as a mature age student. Kate was drawn to social work for its social justice and advocacy principles, and after some coaxing by her brother, who is also a social worker, to do tertiary studies. Kate's interests are broad ranging from gender studies and feminism, the intersection of culture and mental health, narrative therapy and suicide prevention, just to name a few. Her interest in culture stems from growing up overseas and extensive travel as an adult,

which in turn influenced her decision to become a social worker. She plans on becoming an accredited mental health social worker in the future and dip her toe into social policy and research down the track. After hours, Kate is a cat mum, enjoys cooking and relaxing by the beach with a book. Well, thank you, Kate, so much for coming on to the podcast. I really appreciate you doing this. No, worries. Thank you for having me and inviting me on.

When did you get into social work and why did you choose this profession? So I started my degree about six years ago and I actually finished in November last year. So I've only been in social work or a qualified social worker for six months now. And I've been working. for two of those months in mental health. And the reason I got into social work was because I suppose it was a mix of childhood experience and my brother, because he's also a social worker,

and my personal beliefs aligning with the profession's values of social justice and human rights. So I suppose I moved from Camberton, Sydney when I was 23 and I got into social work quite late. I had no idea what I wanted to do and I kind of reflected back on what I wanted to do and what I wanted to be when I was a child. And I suppose one thing that I remembered was I grew up overseas so I saw a lot of poverty and I wanted to change that and social work aligned with that. Yeah. What did you think you wanted to be when you were growing up? I honestly didn't know.

I just knew I wanted to change inequalities, and I didn't know how I could do that until I spoke to my brother about that. And he said, it sounds like you want to make systemic changes. Social work is the way to go. So I read up about social work, got to know what it was. And I was like, yes, this is exactly what I want to do. And when I got into the degree, I fell in love. and it's my life. Yeah.

Were there any particular stories that you heard, say, over the dinner table about social work that really caught your interest? I suppose activism, community, development, and grassroots movements, which I found really interesting and I really liked listening to those stories

because it's a group of people fighting for everyone. And for specific, rights and there were some really powerful messages there and it kind of inspired you to figure how you could address some of those inequalities you mentioned exactly yeah i always liked activism i would attend protests and i suppose that was influenced by my brother and by my parents who also are very intersocial justice and human rights and i mean traveling overseas you get to see you know inequality, inequity, injustice, and then you see it from a different perspective when you come back to Australia. And just because we are, I know terms of change now, but first world or north, or a

western country, it doesn't mean that we don't have ingrained issues and problems that need to be addressed. Yeah, and that's something I'd like to be a part of. Yeah. And where else have you lived. It sounds like you've lived in some really incredible places. Yeah. I grew up in Malaysia for three years and then Pakistan and Thailand. So grew up in three countries and then did a lot of traveling from there. Yeah. So I've been to many different places that, yeah, all have beautiful architecture and beautiful people, but they all have their underlying problems. I've never been to Pakistan, but I know in a lot of Southeast Asian countries, there's a different mindset, there's a different value set and you can be the poorest of the poor but still feel

really rich. So sometimes I think we could learn a lot from people that just are happy having the very basic of maybe they don't feel like they have a lot of human rights and they don't feel like there's a lot of justice but they're happy in what they have. True. And I think that comes down to different values. In Pakistan, I suppose, for example, there is a strong connection to extended family. And there's a community, a sense of community and a sense of belonging. So it's not just about material goods and materialism,

and that can make me feel good. Yeah, so I think we can learn a lot from different cultures in terms of community structures and how important community is and belonging to identity. and to mental health and well-being. Yeah. How are you with languages? Terrible.

No. I'm trying to learn French. I did some Arabic for a couple of years, and we had someone teaching us different languages when we're overseas, but I couldn't tell you many words. Like, I can't remember much. I wish I knew more, but unfortunately I don't. Yeah.

Did you go to an international school? Is that mostly why? Yeah, I'd say that's mostly why. International schools have a vast array of people from different countries, but they're all well off and they're all, it's a very Americanized system. So you're learning about American history, American culture and, yeah. And learning in English. Learning in English, yeah, that's right.

They do have classes in other languages. I never, unfortunately, learned another language fluently. Yeah. I will eventually. That's one of life's goals. Yeah, and I guess it would give you an opportunity to connect with so many more people. Yeah, of course. I think language is important and a way to build relationships with people. And just language in general, you have to be conscious how you use it because it is powerful.

And I know there's that saying that's like, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words may never hurt me. I don't really believe in that. And the reason I don't believe in that phrase is because it does. consider the power that language and words hold and how language can be used as a tool to exclude and silence particular people, groups and cultures. So I'm thinking in terms of discriminatory and prejudicial statements that are racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, classist, ablest, things like that, that harm and have adverse and ongoing, impacts on people's psychological well-being. So I'm talking about their sense of self,

identity and belonging. Yeah. What led you to working in mental health specifically? Is that something you've always been interested in? Yes, I'd say so, but I think it was different to what I anticipated. I do like working in mental health, but the area that I'm working in is working with people who are experiencing severe mental illness, so things like schizophrenia, people that are diagnosed with borderline personality disorders or bipolar or organic brain injuries, which sometimes can impact people's life and functioning. So it was slightly different to what I anticipated. I think I would like to go down the route of community.

development and community mental health eventually but yeah mental health is something i've always been interested in but i didn't expect it to be so biomedical although i did at the same time but the way the systems are set up at the moment is to receive support and medication and things like that you need to have a label in the public health system so so you're picking up people without being able to have much influence on early intervention. You're picking them up when they've already gotten to that crisis stage. Yeah, that's really hard to come back from. Yeah, that's right.

And I think what I do is important, and those people are vulnerable and they need assistance. But I think we also need to work on building stronger communities and making sure that people don't get to that level. That's the type of work that I wanted to do. But yeah, this. the work I'm doing now will help me to do that and to do my job well once I get to that community side of things. You'll have a much better grounding hopefully. Yeah, I'm hoping so.

Yeah. I think so. Yeah. And did you have a placement in mental health? I did. I was in youth mental health and that was early intervention prevention work. I really enjoyed that because I was in the intake team. So doing intake assessments and I liked working with youth because maybe because I was a youth myself, but I could relate. But because it's early intervention, you're getting them in a time where I feel like maybe you can do more. I don't know, maybe that's controversial to say, but I feel early intervention is where I want to be. No, that makes sense. You were saying you were kind of thrown into this biomedical model.

Was that different in the youth mental health space? Youth mental health in that particular service, unfortunately, it was still very biomedical. But when doing intake assessments, you're looking at psychosocial stresses and how that can impact someone's mental health. So I felt at that point, they didn't have to have a label, which helped them get support and feel more supported. And it might not turn into a mental illness. Do you feel like there's a good understanding within that model of where social work fits? Social work does fit, but it's difficult, I think, because mental health sits underneath health in general. So we're going to be coming a lot of the time from biomedical lens.

Although we like to say that we are inclusive as psychosocial, and they are. I'm not going to deny that they aren't. I think there could be more emphasis on looking at those psychosocial stresses and looking at ways that we can assist people in feeling like they are a community member and including the community who don't have mental illness within our work to address stigma and to less in stigma so people can feel that they can be part of the community and participate and that their mental illness isn't something to be afraid of because a lot of people are stereotype to be violent. Just because you have a mental illness doesn't mean you're automatically

violent. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of room for social work to be explored and systems to be changed and to be more accommodating and focused on early intervention. I think there's a tendency to see it as an absence of health. There's a very clear dichotomy there, whereas I think health and mental health should be along a continuum. Yes, exactly. Rather than you have or have not. Yeah, that's right. And I think labels and the biomedical model, I'm not saying that they don't have a place. They do. It's just we need to include other perspectives, cultural perspectives, systems perspectives, and yes, they are being integrated into mental health care. And people do consider that, but I think we can integrate it even more. Sounds like you've been always really active.

In these spaces, you've always been really passionate, and I know you were on the student representative council as well. What was your role there? Well, I was a student rep for social work that was making sure that students' voices were heard and that their experiences and academic experiences were integrated into future coursework. Yeah. It was also about building a community, I think. That was my main aim.

when I went into that role was to build a community for each cohort and for all years across the degree to get to know each other. Yeah. And have, I suppose, a support network. That's so important, especially for people who don't live locally. Exactly. And I think it is the form of community development in the sense. So it can be difficult and it was difficult, but it still was helpful.

I made a newsletter as well and tried to have different students have their voices heard within the newsletter for social work. And I think that went well, but I don't think it's still going unfortunately since I've left, but what can you do? How was the feedback received by the university when you gave it to them? Did you get the sense that that would then be incorporated into the coursework, as you were suggesting? well I did a survey that was gathering information based on placement experiences and because a lot of students weren't happy with how their placements were going they felt the university wasn't supporting them when I spoke to a couple of academics about this they were open to it I don't know whether it's been integrated into future coursework and they were a bit we had a conversation

they weren't opposed to it they felt that maybe I should have approached them before I did that which is interesting they didn't feel I went through proper ethical procedures to do this online survey monkey right I don't know what's going to happen to that feedback I don't think I ended up putting the report together because I felt so heartened and shut down by what they said. Yeah. I guess that's really good experience for you though to take that on board and say,

well, this is what we might be up against in whatever field we're working in. Exactly. How do we best prepare to anticipate what that feedback is going to be and then try to circumvent it? That's true. It is a useful experience because then it's like, how can I approach that next time?

What have I learned from this experience? I think you'll get that anywhere. You'll get it in health. You'll get it in a community development sector. You'll get it anywhere you're probably applying for funding because it's so hard to challenge the status quo. If they've got what they consider to be a good thing going, they're going to say, why change?

Because it's working. Whereas being able to demonstrate that there can be alternatives to doing things is really important. So even though on a really micro level what you felt you were doing perhaps was very localized, I think it's good to even, even the people who were part of that survey, I think that would have given them a little bit more encouragement to say, no, I can be heard. I can actually, if I have any concerns, I should feel free to voice them.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's partly why I did the survey was because students didn't feel like they were being heard. and as a student representative you're representing the voices of students you can take on those roles you can make those surveys you don't need ethical approval like it's a survey monkey it's feedback exactly I think it's just another way to shut it down and silence it and then oh we don't have to do anything about it gotcha yeah no sorry that's been your experience But fast forward to present day, what would a typical day be like for you working in mental health? You'd be doing intakes so people walk into the service or you might be talking to hospitals when they're discharging people and writing reports, doing risk assessments, doing home safety risk assessments, doing community treatment order reports and documentation for,

tribunals. You could be meeting with clients as well, doing support kind of work and just going to have a coffee with them, drawing in the park. Has your role needed to change much the way you deliver services to people now that there are restrictions on visiting where I work in mental health? There have been changes in terms of people receiving services outside of our service, if that makes sense. So we might link them up. with a support service so they get a support worker in terms of that clients have been getting phone calls and some do zoom psychology some still go to sessions in terms of our organization clients can still come in so it's still walk in it's still the same we're still doing home visits we just wear a mask and

wear gloves and do social distancing can be a bit tricky when particular people like nurses have to give injections. So that's where the gloves come in handy. Yeah. And the masks come in handy. Yeah, mostly everything's still running the same. Okay. We have like work from home rotation roster as well. That's good. Yeah. But it sounds as though the rest of their lives are a little chaotic. Definitely. Yeah. I really feel for some of the clients because they have lost their physical supports. although some organizations are starting to bring that back in so they can access that. And a lot of the people or some of the clients that I have,

they don't have access to computers. They don't have a phone, so they can't make their support group Zoom meeting. So they're literally left with nothing, which is very difficult for them. So when it's my client, I tend to be like you can always come and visit me at any time. you can call me Monday to Friday this time.

We're here if you need it. Just like extra support until things kick off again. Yeah. Yeah. And do you have to do any out of hours work? Not me, no. Okay. But do other members of your team, like is there someone that you hand over to it?

There's a crisis after hours? Yes, there is a crisis team that we'd hand over to. That's good. And are there many other social workers as part of that team? My team is quite small anyway. I think there's maybe 10 of us or so, and there's me and one other social worker. And then the rest are nurses and I think one occupational therapist. Okay.

Yeah, so it's very nurse-heavy in our team. Sounds like there are some really good learning opportunities as well. Definitely, yeah. The other social worker and people in the team have been there for years, so there's a lot to learn from them, especially being a new grad. Yeah. Yeah, which is already frightening. getting a new job and being a new grad and in an area that you literally alert,

you feel like you're back in year one of uni. You have all the, you know, theories and everything that, yes, you're doing praxis, but you're also back in the student seat. Yeah. But the team's really supportive. But with completing those reports, it sounds like there's a lot that needs to be learned in terms of legislation and having things ready for tribunal. that you just don't get as a student

or you wouldn't get in any other form of social work. It's a very specific type of knowledge that you'd have to have. Yeah, it is. Like at uni, we do go over what the Act is and particular sections that are really important, but here you kind of have to have thorough understanding of pretty much the legislation, scheduling and CTOs and a lot of different things.

things that you're not always taught at uni. Small hands-on and the practical side. Probably not so much for you, but maybe for the other social workers who have worked there for a little bit longer. Do you feel like there's much opportunity to kind of influence policy if there are things that are noticed that could be changed? I honestly haven't had that discussion. I'd like to. There are things that I have personally noticed that could be changed and implemented, if you do bring something up, I think people would be open to it. And whether it would be implemented, I don't know.

To change a culture and to change the way things are functioning takes a long time. There might be an opportunity for a quality improvement project or something. Yes, maybe. We'll see. That's usually the place to start in health anyway. Yeah, true. What's your favourite thing about your job?

What do you love? I like meeting people and clients and getting to know them and forming professional relationships with them. And I suppose doing collaborative practice in terms of you're not there to be like, this is what I'm going to do for you. You're there to be like, you tell me and let's try and make a little plan and see what we can work out together. I'd say I enjoy that. What do you think is the most challenging thing for you? I've always taken an interest in crisis intervention.

And now that I'm actually in practice and I sometimes am doing crisis intervention, it's actually hard not to be affected by someone else or someone else's pain and what they're going through and you're really trying to be there for them. And you have to shift the way you think. I suppose partly because I'm an empath. You're not there for you. You're there for the client and you really have to. keep that in mind. So you really can't take anything to that interaction. Like you kind of have to

leave everything behind and just be really, really learning on what's happening. Yeah, I'd say that would be quite, yeah, challenging because we're human beings. Are not robots. If, you know, robots could do our job, then go for it, but they can't because they can't feel and they don't have emotions or empathy. So I think, yeah, being able to not disconnect, but be able to, you know, leave it at work or to really be in that moment for that person can sometimes be difficult because no one likes to see anyone in pain. It's a lot to ask of one person as well. So I'm glad that you have a team around you that you can sort of divide that burden or that responsibility amongst. Definitely. I think that's one great thing about the team is we do make team decisions. You never really making a

decision by yourself. And I suppose in a way that's dispersing risk as well. And everyone's being accountable. It's a team decision, team accountability. Yeah. What sort of support do you think you need in that area? Supervision, which is professional self-care. And I personally have two supervisors. I've got internal and external supervision. And if I didn't have them, I would really be struggling. So I really recommend anyone who doesn't have a supervisor, whether you're a new graduate or starting a new field or you are a social worker of 50 years. Supervision is key.

It broadens our perspectives. You learn new ways of practicing with people. It's about reflecting and being reflexive, and that's what supervision is about. Yeah. Yeah. And outside of work, I know you've got, a lot happening. So there are things that kind of give you that space to be at work, at work,

and then really not at work and just let everything be separate. Yeah, I do have hobbies. Like, I play the flute and I like to read and I started Sydney social work community. Yes, it's still connected to social work, but it's a different project and it's about building a social work community in Sydney. But unfortunately because of COVID, that's kind of taken a step back and because I've started working as well. It's been difficult to balance, but there is a committee of us and we are, you know, now that restrictions are easing, we're starting to plan again. Some activities and things. We tried to go online. That was difficult. Also, I'm trying to like, I'm sure you know these. experience of trying to find people to interview or trying to do online things. It was difficult,

I suppose, to manage along with work. Are there any programs that you're working on at the moment within that community? We had like six months worth of events all planned out, but unfortunately they're all gone and we're going to start again. We want to do something for NADOC week and we're having our planning meeting this week. And I am doing a podcast with some academics from WSU about their new book, which is about decolonising whiteness and social work. And there's another project. It's kind of a background project, but it's, and it will take a long time to have this

probably come into fruition, but it's about the registration of social workers in Australia. and we're going to start with New South Wales and with a petition and the importance of being a registered profession. What shape do you see that taking in future? What are you hoping is the end point for that? That social workers have to be registered, like mandatory registration. So like doctors and paramedics who actually, they only got mandatory registration last year, which I found really random.

Yeah, or maybe the year before. very recently and to have a protected title, I suppose. And it just makes sure that we're safeguarding practice, there's quality of practice, and we're protecting the public and improving our practice all the time and that the professional body is always improving and is supporting their social workers. and especially for the people that we're working with. So if there is something, you know, there's some adverse practice going on,

there is a way to make a complaint. Yeah. So more accountability, better awareness, hopefully, within other professional bodies, but also just within the community in general, of having a bit more of an understanding of what social workers can do. Exactly, yeah. And I think that's one thing that we really need to improve on,

which is championing social work and really saying what we do. And a lot of the time are like, oh, what did you study? Oh, Bachelor of Social Work. What's that? What's a social worker? Like, uh-oh. Yeah. So many times you just get a glazed look.

And you almost have to follow that up with, I'm a social worker and I do this. Yes. I do this very specific thing. And then it becomes a little bit more tangible and easy to understand. Yeah, exactly. But still, there's such poor understanding, I think. Yeah.

I suppose social work, we learn to dismantle, challenge, be critical of oppressive structures and systems that need to be changed. Yeah. And I think that's something social work does really well, and we really need to promote that and really be championing particular values of social justice. Social justice is at the core of social work. and that's what makes us different from other disciplines. And social justice is distinctly different from social cohesion,

which I think social work unfortunately has kind of gone down that avenue of social cohesion, which to me and my mind is more about fitting someone in or groups into an existing system that is failing, which is, in my mind, a facade for social control. Social justice is what I mentioned earlier, challenging those oppressive structures and systems, eradication of poverty and disadvantaged, and that's through the redistribution of wealth

and the equitable distribution of privilege and opportunities that ensure a fair, just an equal society. And that fair, just and equal society occurs, through social change. So I'm thinking in terms of Marxism. You have a thesis, a starting point, an antithesis, a reaction, and a synthesis, an outcome. So conflict theory, which is about, you have a starting point,

so we can draw upon the current political situation within America and within Australia, which is the Black Lives Matter movement, where you're looking at institutional and systemic issue of racism, where there's disproportionate rates of, in the Australian context, Aboriginal people who are incarcerated and experience higher rates of socioeconomic disadvantage and so on, people get angry. So in order for that social change to occur, we have a reaction, so we have protests. And then we have an out.

which in my mind I would like it to be a more fair, just an equal society. And I think we have to remember that social work is political. These are the kind of issues that social work is therefore to address. To make change, it's uncomfortable. Yeah. And you have to be prepared to fight for it. Yeah. Where do you see yourself heading next?

So what's sort of a logical progression for you in your career? I know you've only just really started, but it sounds as though there's a lot that you want to contribute. The list is endless. I really want to get into. I like working with people and individuals. The one aspect of social work that I really love is challenging structures and social systems and political systems.

And I suppose that's where I'd like to be. So eventually I'd like to be in social policy. Social policy in community. or working for an NGO doing community-based work. Grass-rate stuff. Yes. That's where I'd really like to be. Brilliant.

Have you noticed there are many changes or maybe colleagues have mentioned to changes in mental health over the years in terms of social work? Like how has social work in mental health developed over time? Is it that we're working more collaboratively together with different professions? That's actually a tricky question.

I haven't really touched on that, but I would say that, yes, social works recognized, and psychosocial factors are more considered. And I don't know if that's directly because of social workers. I'd like to think it is. But it's a bit more vernacular. There's a little bit more of a language, and it's at the forefront of people's assessments. Yeah, definitely, I think so.

that's improved for sure. Yeah. Where do you see social work then making an impact in the future? Given that you're of the generation where, you know, fresh out, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, really passionate and excited about making a change, if not in this area, definitely in community development and early intervention. What's your hope for the future of social work and the clients that you're working with? Because obviously there are a lot of people doing really great. work. Yeah, there are. So there's no need to revolutionise necessarily. It's just a matter of reformulating and creating, I guess, a little bit of fire in the bellies of people who know what they want to be

the outcome, but don't really know how to get there. I think Australian social work and social work education, some universities do it fantastically. Others not so well. And I think what they're missing is community development. Because part of the issue is time. Yeah. It's how do we mobilize the troops? How do we get this happening? And probably especially as a younger social worker,

you're probably thinking who's going to listen. So how do you actually get to that point where you've got some really good ideas, but you need to kind of set them in action? True. I suppose in terms of grassroots and, community development, talking to your manager and starting a small project. So for example, at my work, I've recently discussed with my manager the potential of having a community garden and clients can come

and go as they please and it's a place where they can meet other people and connect with the community, feel like a sense of purpose. And that's such a great little collaborative project with another, maybe it's an inner city community center as well, someone else who's connected to that population. Yeah, definitely. And I would like to incorporate, we work in an area where there is a high Aboriginal population. So I would like to build the garden in collaboration

with the community or with an organization within that area. Yeah. and to form partnerships and build relationships that way. So something very small can have a big impact. Yeah, it builds community, it gets people together. It helps to get people outside and feeling connected to other people who may be very much like them or very different. Yeah, that's great for them to see as well.

Yeah, that's right. And it can break down stigma. You get to learn about other people, about mental health, about different cultures. and bridge the gap of misconception and misunderstanding. You've spoken about other types of social work that you're interested in exploring, but would you like to work overseas as well? Is that something that's been on your bucket list? Yes, actually it is.

Next year, I'd really like to move either to the UK on a youth mobility visa and travel and do social work over there. But overall, I'd love to work in the Middle East or Southeast Asia doing community development or development projects there. That would be something I'd really enjoy, even social policy and aid work. Because you do have some experience with Red Cross and their emergency services programs. Yeah, I've done some of their programs. What was that like?

Yeah, they're useful. They are interesting. You meet a lot of different people. You can go on trainings to learn about humanitarian work and natural disaster work and local work as well. So working with people who may have experienced the bushfires. So you might be in a call center or you might be on the ground doing psychosocial assessments or crisis intervention, things like that. it's variable. I think you can learn so much from working within different cultures as well.

So you coming into a completely foreign land with different language, different expectations, different experience of social workers as well. I think you're going in with a lot of history there, whether it's a colonised country, for instance, or whether it's a country that's just had years of famine or drought or whatever it might be. and to what extent have they come in contact with a social worker and what has that experience being like so for you going into that environment you kind of got to keep that in mind of this has been their experience and this is what I can help with and I think more people could benefit from that it's just kind of scary really I think that's why people don't do it yeah that's true it's the

unknown it's the putting yourself out there and being vulnerable when you're so used to just working with the vulnerable people, not being one yourself? Yeah, that's true. I think in terms of being vulnerable, even it's a completely different vulnerability, but being a new graduate, you kind of pushed out on your own. So you're kind of, in a sense, vulnerable within that context of you're just starting a new job, you're learning a new thing, and you don't always feel like you have the support you think you need or you don't, you just don't know what you need.

and in terms of humanitarian work you're right going into an unknown country a culture you're not familiar with can be very daunting but i think it's so important to be working from that person's cultural context and to practice cultural humility so you can learn how to practice yourself and as a social worker you're always going to sit with that uncertainty and uncomfortability i think that's just part of being a social worker isn't it well i i hope so So I hope that that's what people come to it with rather than assuming that they know what they're going to be faced with and how they're going to solve the problem. And as you suggested very early on, solving the problems or addressing the issues is not about

going in there with this preconceived idea of this is how we're going to fix this. It's what do you need? What resources do you need? What information? What support do you need to get to this point? What are your goals? Exactly. And what do you already have at hand that you can use?

Yeah. So it's working with the person where they're at in order to come up with something that's going to fit them. That's right. It must be so hard in a health setting because you've probably got benchmarks. You've probably got objectives. You go in there and if it's not measurable, it doesn't matter as much. How do you deal with that? How do you demonstrate that you're doing good work in your own?

opinion. Yeah, you're right. In my job, we do have things that we call stats. So you're statting every time you've seen someone, even if it's just passing them in the hallway and having a quick chat and seeing how they're going. Because that's where our funding comes from. But how do you measure whether you're doing a good job? Talk to your clients. Ask them, how do you feel everything is going? Yeah, I think it's just a basic conversation that you should always be doing with every client, even doesn't have to take part every time. you see them, but it could, you can be like, hey, just checking back in, how did you think today went? I really enjoyed it.

I didn't. Okay, what can we do to improve it next time? What can we do next time differently? That's how you can measure it on a personal level, because sometimes, yes, those studying things or KPIs or benchmarks, objectives can be very limiting in what they're measuring and overwhelming because you're constantly having to do it. Numbers don't show relationships and... The quality.

Exactly. The quality of a relationship. And maybe then that leads back to the relationship with the supervisor. If you're able to demonstrate to your supervisor that you've... And it might not be specifics, it might just be themes that have come up and how they've been addressed. and in the wider sphere, what does that then mean for the population that you've got funding to support? They can then feed that higher up the chain and give it context and say,

we're doing good work, we're kicking goals, we're doing the things that we set out to do and more. We just might not measure it in the same way that you expect us to. Yeah, that's true. So they need to have your back as well. Definitely. And I'll always document, like, in a note. the last kind of how I know this sounds kind of peculiar but how someone might say goodbye when a client leaves I'll be like oh thank you I had a really good time like thanks for your patience

I'll document that because it shows it's that little boost for next time when you've all like there's low morale or it's a little reminder that you are you know helping out this one person and you are making a difference or you can also show it to your line manager or something and be like hey this is working it is having an impact we're so reluctant to blow our own horn sometimes yeah we don't want to give good feedback which goes against everything that we stand for because we want to encourage the people that we're supporting to to speak out but really i think it's so imperative that we stand up for ourselves and to have humility but also to not be too modest Yeah. Many of the social workers that I've come by are very modest, very humble, which isn't a bad thing.

But yeah, we also need to stand up for ourselves and for our clients what we believe in. Yeah. Is there any form of social work that you have no interest in? Not that I can think of off the top of my head. So just keeping doors open. Yeah. For now, I'm sure eventually there might be something you'll try out and be like, I don't want to do that again. But right now, being a new grad and a new social worker, it's all, I'm open to experiences and learning everything and, yeah, being in that, I suppose, position of student and

eventually teacher, but I'll still always have that position of student because I think once you stop learning, that's an issue. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which I guess comes back to your previous point about continuing professional development through the registering body. Perhaps that's something that the profession is lacking, is that impetus or the responsibility to continue learning. And even though we probably do it informally,

there's been not as much of a formal structure around what that looks like. Yeah, definitely that's somewhere that the AASW can improve upon and more support for new graduates who are coming out in terms of touching base and being like, hey, noticed you just graduated, even if it's a generic email, notice you've just graduated, here's some people, supervisors that you can get in touch with. If people were interested in knowing a little bit more about mental health, social work, where would you direct them? Any good websites or resources? The ASW does have a little resource page.

Like the scope of practice? Yeah, and I think there's one that's actually specifically about what is hospital social worker, what is mental health social work? They have details about mental health social work under the accredited mental health social worker accreditation that you can get. And if you want to understand, I suppose, about CTOs, you can go to the MHRT.gov, I think it is, but it's a mental health tribunal. Okay. You can read about what it is to get a CTO and all the criteria.

familiarizing yourself with the Mental Health Act, see what I have already and I'll send it through to you. Perfect. Thank you. Is there anything else that you'd like to mention for people listening, anything that perhaps stands out for you as a new grad or things that you want people to take away? I suppose for new grads, it's okay to not know what you want to do and you're going to feel like you're floundering around at work, unsure of what you're doing, and you're going to feel like

I didn't learn anything in my degree, but you did. It's just sometimes it takes a little while to find your feet. So that's why, you know, supervision is fantastic. And I suppose in terms of the current situation of racism and injustice. It's so important to call out racism when it happens and to educate people what racism is, what white privilege is, and to understand that this is a political issue and social work is political and we really need to get up and fight. And we're well positioned. Yeah.

And we've got so much training behind us and sometimes we don't really understand how to put that in practice until we're thrown in that situation. Yeah, that's right. And activism, going to a protest, that's great. Let's do that. And we also have to think about what's next, what's after that. And there's some great, like, Zoom meetings that are exploring those topics at the moment. Yeah. And is the community group that you're part of made up of mostly students or is there a kind of mixture of professionals and students? Some of them are new grads, like myself and maybe three or four of us and then there's some people that are already quite established in social work. Yeah. Okay. So maybe I can give people some information as to how

they can get in touch with you if they're interested in joining. Definitely. Like there's no membership so they can just come along or to events when we finally have them again. And And we've got some podcasts online of previous speakers at events and community and social workers are welcome. We have, you know, our values, I guess, are, they're online, but social justice, human rights, diversity and inclusion. That's open to anyone, so social work students, academics. I think from what you were saying, especially being a new grad,

having a network and having people that they can, connect with and ask questions, it'd probably be really valuable. So it might not, perhaps when you set out to create this, it wasn't your sole focus, but it's a nice secondary bonus of people just feeling connected to each other and feeling like they can ask questions, even if they're not directly involved in the event management or coming up with ideas for things. Yeah, we're always open to ideas, but yeah, it's definitely, well, one of the reasons that SWIC was started was because there was, I think, a lack of events that brought students together, academics and social workers in the field or retired social workers, community workers, together, and to form

those informal support networks. So it's all about connecting and sharing knowledge and experiences with one another and, I suppose, promoting social work in general. Thank you so much, Kate, for being on the podcast. And I'm pretty sure everyone else will agree that it has been really, really helpful having your perspective. And just the passion comes through and really looking forward to seeing what comes of all these wonderful programs and projects that you're working on. And I'm sure you've got a lot to contribute to the profession. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Thanks for joining me. week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Kate, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlightpodcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Adele. Adele is an accredited mental health social worker and manager of the Domestic and Family Violence Service at St Vincent's Hospital in Sydney. She has extensive experience in health, providing management, mentoring and leadership in the area of women and child health.

She has also worked in the NGO sector as a specialist domestic violence counselor, educator and trainer and service coordinator. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you are notified when this. next episode is available. See you next time.