Social Work Spotlight - Episode 16: Adele

Episode Date: October 30, 2020

In this episode, Adele and I discuss her passion for supporting people affected by domestic and family violence, and her mentoring and leadership roles in health and community settings. Of particular interest to Adele is the intersection of mental health with violence and trauma, and holding a safe therapeutic space for women. Adele is an Accredited Mental Health Social Worker and Manager of a Domestic & Family Violence Service, having also worked in the NGO sector as a specialist domestic violence counsellor, educator and trainer and service coordinator.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:· Michael White (Psychotherapist) -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_White_(psychotherapist)· Judith Herman Trauma and Recovery - https://www.booktopia.com.au/trauma-and-recovery-judith-herman/book/9780465061716.html· Jan Fook - https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/author/jan-fook· They Never Asked Me Anything About That”: The Stories of Women who Experience Domestic Violence and Mental Health Concerns/Illness - https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/handle/2123/6535· Cathy Humphreys - https://findanexpert.unimelb.edu.au/profile/153245-cathy-humphreys· Cathy Humphreys (Mental Health and Domestic Violence: 'I Call it Symptoms of Abuse') - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/249285138_Mental_Health_and_Domestic_Violence_'I_Call_it_Symptoms_of_Abuse'This episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://drive.google.com/file/d/19dtem7x_HJYdoITJxMUswBl8Y10jsHiU/view?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode. I'm your host, Yasamine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Adele. Adele is an accredited mental health social worker and manager of the Domestic and Family Violence Service at St. Vincent's Hospital, Sydney. She has extensive experience in health, providing management, mentoring and leadership in the area of women and child health. She has also worked in the NGO sector as a specialist domestic violence counselor, educator and trainer and service coordinator. Adele has presented on domestic and family violence at conferences both nationally and internationally, including presenting at the inaugural European Conference on Domestic Violence held in Belfast, Northern Ireland. Thanks so much, Adele for coming on to the podcast. I'm glad you could be part of this.

Thank you and thank you for asking me. Pleasure. Can you tell me firstly when you started as a social worker and what led you to this profession? Okay, I came very late in terms of age to social work. I graduated in 2003, some 17 years. I'm quite happy to say I'm 62, so you can see it was a late change of career, change of direction for me. for social work. I did back-to-back degrees.

My first degree was in arts where I majored in women and gender studying and cultural theory and then within six months I'm doing the social work degree after I completed a four years honours degree in arts, majoring in those subjects.

So my first then social work position was in the major tertiary hospital doing women in child's health and that was my first actual social work position yeah so that was yeah I started that I hadn't even actually I just completed all the course requirements and then within about a month I got that position I hadn't even actually gone to the ceremony

yeah right yeah was there a particular part of your studies as you were doing gender studies and women's studies that kind of brought you to social work as a field and made you interested in it in the first place? Well, partly, absolutely, because I've seen that as very much a natural progression. Right? I didn't realise the obstacles that may create

actually doing social work, but yeah, I've seen that as fundamental knowledge that just would be put into practice by the profession of social work. certainly as, but there was a real transition between a, you know, arts degree in cultural theory and the, you know, women and gender studies to actual social work. Something a bit more focused. More focus, more practice driven, obviously.

But, I mean, I got it in the end, but it wasn't an easy. And it hasn't been easy along the way because I've always, throughout my social work career kept a very post-modernist lens. And that lens actually can really challenge the areas I've worked in which is predominantly medical. So you bring in that lens, the feminist lens, the social justice, human rights lens, into a massive discourse known as the biomedical discourse. And that's been on many levels, a huge challenge to me. Sure.

Yeah. And I imagine with your first role, which was postnatal assumptions. Yes. Well, it was, yeah, in women and children's health. So, of course, what you were looking at there is really complex psychosocial issues impacting on women, both current and, you know, childhood and intergenerational, I think that first degree really, you know, gave me knowledge and an understanding of the structural impacts

and the institutional impacts on women. Then, you know, you see that, but then you see the ongoing abuse from that at that level. And that's really hard. Sure. because you carry in that hat and you carrying the hat of, especially in this area, that you almost recruited into the child protection system.

And I think there was a naivity there thinking, I'm working in women and child self. I have deliberately chosen not to work at that time docs, right? But you realize, hey, the slippage between those two, to say you're not an agent of at all is really hard and then to say but I can still work therapeutically

with this woman it's the merkiest ethically challenged area well one of them there'd be others of course in social work what we do but the ethics of all that the morality of all that of working

you know with such trauma that a woman's experience and then being accountable around child protection, which you know, you have to be, but then trying to hold a safe therapeutic space for this woman, it's almost impossible at times. Yeah. So I developed from that, what I call a parallel process,

and I really got it. It's as if for a women and child's health social work, and I'm sure it's in other areas of social work, you really have to metaphorically have one foot in the systems laneway and one foot in the therapeutic and acknowledge both. And do you think that's what social work brings to this field in particular, that capacity to sit over different areas? You would hope so.

Well, that's the opportunity with our training. You would certainly, we bandy these terms around best practice, you know, you would certainly hope that's the case, and I've seen countless demonstrations of that, but I've also seen where it's not that. You know, it's so easy to get caught up in other systems, like the, you know, the mental health, which is massively dominated by the biomedical model. it's so easy to lose that feminist lens not only the feminist lens

but the feminist methodology of how the method by how you work in a woman not the political ideology or the philosophy but a method of working and it has been so born out for me or played out

throughout the years that I've worked in the area of women in child's health where I've interviewed a lot of social workers the teams you know that's come on a team like that and you almost have to prize it out to them that they need the feminist lens

and yet you're working in women child's health interesting oh it's just staggering but those who then were warned that's what she'll be looking for god of I suppose yeah yeah you know Perhaps it's something that through the course of their work has just kind of, it was big in university, it was big in the theory, and then as they've become more sort of intuned and

conditioned maybe to the hospital model or the health setting, whatever it is, it's not captured in statistics, it's not something that they can report on, you spot on, therefore perhaps it's something that loses a bit of priority, which is a real shame. Yes, it is, but that's the melding of practice and the, you're not. theory. And how can you work with women and not have that lens? And that's what I love about social work is that it forces you to find that connection. Absolutely. Absolutely it does. And you must. Assuming you have the right support around you as well, it comes back to that. Oh, it does, of course. And, you know, in what area you're working in? I mean, how hard would that be,

if we're just talking about that lens, but I think you need to. You need. a whole array of lenses. If you were just relying on, you know, the feminist lens, you're pretty anemic, you know, you need the whole array. You know, I've said this before as well, but around, I equate our knowledge and skills as an artist's palette. You need many colours on that palette. So.

And many techniques to build the colour. Exactly, exactly, you know. But your fundamental palette, is all those social work called values and you know I think if you put

your different lenses or your different colours on that palette you're doing good I mean you know I think it's just an easy way for me to conceptualise what I do

but social work gave me that palette I've added the colours do you think that work was the catalyst for you to then do extra training. I know you've trained with Michael W. Yes, yes. Oh, it was. Absolutely. You know, that was one of the greatest skiffs I've ever been given was the time I spent with him at that time. You know, he had a level one introduction into narrative where he was, you know, right there in front of you. And then he had the level two. So, yeah, and, you know,

to sit with him and speak with him. And I think he was so reaffirming and confirming of the value of that first degree, which at one point, I think before I actually really sat with him, thought, how can I apply this to social work? And it was him who said, well, how could you not? Yeah. I remember his exact words, Adele, how could you not?

That was his original training. And he never, he never forgot that. I was just going to explain in case anyone wasn't aware. So Michael White was an Australian social worker who was known as the founder of narrative theory or narrative therapy. And also a big contributor to psychotherapy and family therapy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. What do you think then has led you to this point in your career where you are now?

It's almost a cliche. around that natural progression. But again, I think what you do daily, because you add on a day-to-day basis, in my case, working in women in child's health, then, of course, the realisation of how many women and their children are impacted by violence and abuse, right? it's, you know, you can say I'm working in, you know, women in child's health,

but again, at the same time you're working in domestic and family violence, sexual assault. We in health put those services out there, but there's one thing about women and child's health, it contains it all. Yeah. You know? And that's why whether I'd have gone, I could have easily have gone to work in a sexual health service, sexual assault service, should say, or like I did in a domestic violence service, but I'd already worked in it all.

Yeah. Just because they're located in different buildings and under different management structures, it's all there. Yeah. You know, we separate it. Women do not. Would you say there's a difference, though, sitting where you are now in this organisation with the size, the fun?

the type of the business, the philosophy. Is there a difference for you? Look, I have found that coming to here, where they have funded a domestic and family violence service, which does sit on site, which does face inwards, face outwards. I've found that if you look at their philosophy, it just perfectly aligns with their philosophy. So they've truly got to be patted on the back for that, you know, really.

And I think it makes huge difference. And it's not about me and or, you know, but it's having the recognition that domestic and family violence services in health situated at a tertiary level hospital that, yes, he's aligned and sits with so. work is an absolute best practice model. And I can't see it anywhere else. I mean, I can see other health, domestic family violence services and sexual assault service, but they're in community. I will go to ED.

I will go to a mental health inpatient unit. It's not like you refer. I go inwards and we go outwards. Do you have capacity then to be involved in interoperate? agencies and community health? Oh, absolutely. Because, I mean, for a worker's health and well-being and professional diversity, it is really important to keep that aspect of social work as well.

So, yes, I attend interagency. Yes, I, you know, attend police meetings, Sam's, safety action meetings. Yes, I do this and I participate, you know, in research. Yes, yes, and I present and I guest lecture at certain universities and yes, I sit there directly with a traumatised woman. A very, you know, a client, one of a better word, that does the honour and has the courage to walk into a place like that. So I see myself in a very, very privileged and honoured position here.

Yeah. And if you can say that about your career and your profession and your role, then, you know, I feel very blessed. Yeah. Yeah, I do. And how has the current restrictions with COVID impacted on what you're seeing, whether it's through presentations or referrals from clients or just how you do your work and how you can do what you need to do? Okay, so, well, I'll just get to the practice. of around how we, in the midst of it, well, you know, that March, April, you know, the, when everything was very new and scary. Yeah, exactly. Of course, we ceased the face to face and we offered telephone counseling.

Now, there was some just interesting and almost anecdotal type knowledge that came from. that. The option was to offer women a telehealth conferencing type platform, whether it be at, you know, Zoom, you know, whatever, but telehealth. Now, new clients, not one accepted that platform. And that was very, well, I hadn't even critically thought about would they or wouldn't they, but of course it made me then. And these referrals were for domestic violence, intimate partner violence, look, let's put in bracket, complex, complex trauma. Yeah. Right.

So is it any wonder then when we critically think about it that a person has experienced complex trauma, that we would then say the person you're going to first meet, speak with at any level a bad trauma is going to be through a medium like that. So impersonal. You know, so, because if I've heard it once, I've heard it a new way of working, no, that's not a new way of working. It's clearly not working. No.

Different, what I've found. So these are my observations, yeah. different if I had been some clients that I've worked quite ongoingly with so over six months so those women were far more open why I mean it's the basic of you've got to establish safety way before you can establish trust so they had already seen me it'd been ongoing they knew me they felt safe there had been that

establishing of the therapeutic relationship so yes they were more open to Skype or you know FaceTime whatever medium but not one new referral it's just

new knowledge and when you critically think about it not so surprising now I've said that to you you're not surprised by that I don't know no no So that's not an ongoing medium. And then what one woman said to me that I had seen she'd been ongoing before COVID,

was that, because I asked, I said, I know this is not optimal for you. She said, well, it's okay, Adele. She said, because I had that being with you sitting in this very one-on-one, she said and that real sense of I'm safe and she said but not to sit with you not to have that personal interaction the body language that they're just sitting

face to face she said well I don't know if I'd have kept going or if I'd have even durned up so I mean they're just you know that was one woman's take on her. But I must say a couple of women did feedback that, again, new referrals in that time, did feedback that telephone was the absolute way to go for them. Bean is because they didn't feel safe enough and not so much because of the impacts of

violence and abuse, but from that kind of health around, uh, in that thing. So they were relieved. Telephone was an option. And also another woman said to me, well, regardless of this, I'll direct quote, bloody virus, she said, I don't think I'd have turned up if I'd have had to come in person. So what it's taught me is, while I don't particularly think telehealth is a real option, I wouldn't completely rule that. our telephone initially, you know. So I think the vast majority do want the face to face, and certainly if you're working longer term and from that very therapeutic relationship, working around therapeutically with the complex trauma, to continue to do that over phone,

I would argue it's almost impossible. Right. But you could establish. establish initial and then bring them in. And that's what's happened. People that I only ever met over the phone have come in now because they can. Okay. And what a difference. And everyone's, it makes such a difference. Because if you work in therapeutically with anyone,

I use a lot of visual tools, you know, I use art, lots of different mediums. Now how can you do that at the phone? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Before we started recording, I was talking briefly about interpreters. Yeah. You just made me think, I wonder how,

because interpreters add an additional layer of complexity when you're trying to have those sorts of conversations. How would you then tackle interpreter via telehealth in this conversation? Look, it'd be so hard, and you would have to critically look at it. Are you, what are we setting up here so we can tick box, we've done it? You know, look, we have done it, not myself, but my colleague has done because she's had to because the woman has required an interpreter and absolutely. But, you know, the feedback, it hasn't worked.

I mean, it's worked in your tickboxing sense. Yes, I made the phone call. Yes, established safety, risk, but as it worked, has there been that real? I don't know. It's certainly a very far cry from what, you know, one of my all-time gurus, I've got a few, right? Duda Thurman, you know, talks about it's really way away from that. Yeah, sure. Yes.

I don't know. I mean, I haven't got the answer to either because what do you do, you know? I mean, do you risk someone's physical health? I don't know. I guess that's the risk of people not accessing the service, is you know that they're out there. You just can't get to them. Well, exactly.

And it's around, you know, it's very much around timing, you know. I think what I've learned over years, especially from the health perspective, because we do have this thing in health, is that referrals, referrals, referrals save the date. Well, they don't. You know, that we have to refer. We have to refer rather than staying and being present, right?

And that's why service like this is excellent, because you're not going to be referred anywhere. It's constant warm referrals, constant, hey, I'm just coming here, just touch base, so you know my face. and you know I've had the pleasure of meeting you what a difference than you know than cold referrals so and even if to enter

counselling you know trauma counselling you know it's not for people who we think need it it's for people who want to who are ready for whatever reason otherwise you'd have half a Sydney doing counselling yeah

it really isn't about who we think needs it. Is there anything else that you would say is really challenging about your job? That's obviously one. You mentioned the medicalization of violence as well. Absolutely. If I could, someone have the magic one, it would be absolutely really critically looking at

what I call the pathologization, the medicalization of violence and abuse. of, you know, domestic violence that I've said it numerous times that I believe is choking the mental health system and drug and alcohol. I mean, I had 18 months ago now a year ago, I was at a conference and there was a wonderful guest speaker, Canadian woman. I think she was medical by psychiatry background but had gone into working in the area of domestic. and family violence. And she said a statement that just astounded me. But, you know, it makes perfect sense

when she said that 90% of all mental health presentations are the direct result of the experience of violence. Whether it be in the childhood, we call that childhood trauma, that's staggering. So to then treat the symptoms of it, which is the borderline personality, we label the depression's anxiety. For the sake of ticking like you mentioned.

Well, you know, imagine if we refrained and said there's a 90% chance you have experienced intergenerational as a child ongoingly, currently, intermittently in your life, violence. Imagine. What a massive mind shift from you have got some mental health issue and this is how we're going to deal with it. So displacing the blame. Yeah. Well, you know, because what we've done, to compensate that, we use the rhetoric of the language of trauma-informed practice.

I mean, it's just rhetoric behind that staggering. And what I find about that, it's as almost as if we've saying, the minute we put it in a policy, put it in a model of care, it's happened. The lack of critical walking at that, I equated to this, would we say to a G.

P, say. You must now go and perform neurosurgery, complex neurosurgery on this person, right? Because you've got a medical degree, right? And we're not going to give you a chance to practice? No, no, you've got to go and do it, right? And yet we're saying, if you look at it really critically, we're saying to, you know, people that have got great degrees and, you know, great fundamental knowledge, now you have to do the equivalent with complex trauma. We reduce it to, you know, we must come from a trauma-informed practice to, look, anyone

can do this, but anyone cannot. It takes, I believe, years and specialized training. I'm not saying it couldn't be teared that your approach is yes from that trauma but surely there's got to be a certain level demonstrated level of knowledge and expertise to say you actually do that at a therapeutic intervention level rather than saying anyone can do this it cheapens it it cheapens it it disdeme it skills it and vitally, what are we

doing for people with profound complex trauma? We're saying, look, anyone can understand your trauma? No, you cannot. We wouldn't accept that in other areas.

medically, they'd never accept that. A registrar to go and do a complex cardio surgery. they just wouldn't accept it but we do I wonder if that comes back to

our training our registration the expectations that are put on us I think you absolutely you've touched on some really important crucial things there yes I think it does I think we need to as a discipline

truly say and that's banded around a lot this is our core business, but it is. But we need then to say, if you're looking at domestic and family violence, this is social work core business. We really have to own this and then constantly upskill ourselves.

So we're the not experts in someone's life, never, but we're the subject matter experts, right? So it's no coincidence that to work on this team, my team, you'd have to be a social worker and you'd have to have a lot of extra training. That's critical acknowledgement of the skill level required. So those type of positions, which should be social work positions, because you'll see how passionate I am about social work, because I absolutely think it's an outstanding knowledge and skill-based degree, should then be...

specialised in, not as a mental health clinician or a drug and health, but actual domestic and family violence positions. And they must be social workers. This thing of opening it up to all disciplines. I know there'd be a truckload of non-social workers be going, I don't care. So we accept as a society that, to bring babies into the world safely in Australia, we can talk about here, that, you know,

every baby's got to be a mother has a right to good antenatal maternal care, yes? Yeah. And would we not support midwifery when they say yes, but that's our core business? We agree with that, don't we? everyone has got a right to live free of violence and abuse and society has got an obligation around social justice and health to absolutely and you know through all our systems legal the law you know the criminal to say we need to do what we've got to do yeah to stop violence right

Where do we stop and say, then as social work, that's our core business. We accept it. We don't let a plumber go and fix the electrics. They're not allowed. Why have we just done this? And, you know, so that's the frustration you're hearing from me around social work. We talk about, you know, political, you know, we must always maintain the political activism lens. Do it for ourselves as well, you know.

Do not give those positions where you are dealing with complex trauma around violence and abuse. And there'd be other areas. Anyone can do that. Because everyone does the psychosocial assessment now. And I think going on with what you said around social work, on a huge level, I'm fiercely proud of being a social worker. I absolutely maintain and uphold social work as a professional, the professionalism of social work. Therefore, I would argue we need registration just for that, not because. And I also critically look at social works.

history. I think we need to hold that and recognise it around the stolen generation, around the lost generation, the lost generation of all the children that was brought from overseas as well. That's a whole huge area. And of course, the role that social work played in the stolen generation and the intergenerational trauma there, I get that. And I think we need to kind of always acknowledge that but I also believe that social work and social workers themselves need to critically look at fostering and mentoring both social workers and the profession because what I mean here is I've seen countless social workers immediately drop that title just like that and become managers or it's not even about even dropping the title it's about dropping the identity

so I've worked with people that don't even relate to being a social worker they're in directors of this you know they're all out there right and I think to myself wherever you got your palette that's leased you up and onwards wherever you've gone, you're still standing on social work shoulders. And yet you drop that title, just like that. Fundamentally, the skills and the experience that you're using. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Because it'll come from there.

Yeah. And, you know, and I think, would a doctor ever say, I'm not a doctor, psychologist? They never stop being a psychologist. So why aren't we proud? Why? Yeah. Is it coming back to that sense of shame? around the past?

Is it because there's no registration? Is it because we still view ourselves as the poor welfare cousin of psychology? Is it a kudos that, oh look, I've risen above it? I don't know. But I've mentored a wonderful young male social worker. And I'm just so proud of what he's achieved. He's going places. And wherever title he puts and he's got a few now,

because he's got his hands in the lot of, always social worker. I said, that's right. Never dropped that. Yeah. And that's another thing. We need to critically look at that because the moment we disidentify as being social workers, then how can you really say you're fostering? that or acknowledging that what give you the skills.

Yeah. You're your work, your hard work with the exam, the placements, we know all that. But if not for yourself, what about for your profession? Or do you don't see yourself as that professional anymore? Yeah. And so many of them don't. Because I've worked with them. And I'm thinking, yeah, you really don't, do you?

Yeah. Well, you've spoken a lot about challenges and you're clearly very passionate. Yeah, very passionate. Yeah. What would you say you love the most about either being a social worker or working as a social worker in this area? Okay. What I love the most is that I can truly say that what I do is not for the money. Now, I know that saying is a bit funny, but you don't stay a social worker.

You don't become a social worker. don't become a social worker if it's about the money. I love that. I love the fact that I don't work to make other people money. That's the integrity. Yep. And I'm hesitating me because I don't want to say I'm clichéish, but the women I've worked with over the years have been my absolute greatest teachers. Now I've got two university degrees. and a post-grad, but what they have taught me, no university could, yeah, about themselves, about who I am as a person professionally, you know, many, many levels. How could you not love being educated?

So what I love yesterday, I had an education in brackets, counseling session. with a young woman that I met for the first time. And my God, was I educated. And I, you know, how could you not? I truly love that aspect that the learning never stops. Yeah? So I do. I love the fact that I've, no matter what I position I've held,

and I've held coordinator titles, you know, counselor titles in the women's health. sector, I've never not held the fact that I'm a social worker, yeah. I love being part of a department. The department that I'm part of, which is obviously social work, is a wonderful department. So that helps. Just on the practicality, very supportive. But I guess where you're situated, you're part of two separate departments. Yes. You've got the best of practice. Yeah, I have. And I really, on a professional level would really, I think it's just be ridiculous for me to claim any negativity really. I mean, sure, you know, there's times I'd like to be, you know, traveling around Spain and Italy,

you know, to my favourite places. But, you know, I'm talking about if you have to do this, you know, five days a week, then I couldn't. I'm one of these people that could honestly say, could I really picture myself doing, something else and I can say no. I think that's what people have said to me, why haven't you gone on to management, you know, head of department and, you know, the pathway,

then director of allied health and that's great for other people, but for me, I would miss that constant learning from the clients. I mean, there'd be other learning, of course, in that trajectory, but for me, that's vital. So not to have a clinical role, you know, and that oscillates between I can be 40% clinical, 60% better words, management and vice versa on any given day. It could be 10 to 90, whatever. But I've got a very healthy balance between direct practice, indirect practice and what I call really that.

pure advocacy where clients nowhere around but you advocate on a systems level. Yeah. That's vital. It's almost like a dance between the whole spectrum and that's what I love. Given that you've worked in this field for pretty much your entire career, has there ever been any other type of social work that's interested you? Yes, I would have very much so around palliative care. maybe in cancer services.

And I kind of, it is funny that I know that no matter what my skill level is, I suppose this is what we have to look at, I could not move from this level to over there. You know, that transition, even though I'd bring a load of skills, but it's specialised. And I honour that, that speciality in those different areas. Health isn't health. Yes, exactly.

So, but it's certainly, I know I would be enriched and be able to provide enrichment, I suppose, you know, because I see it as a reciprocal, it's all dynamic, contextual, you know, working with people that were facing those crisis, health issues in their life. And are you part of the on-call service here? What I'm part of is that I am constantly, and I do, and I requested this, to be as a backup consultant for any domestic and family violence matters that present to ED. So social workers can contact me at any time. and that is, I think, a very strategic and very smart, for one of a better word, and supportive move for social work to bring on board here. Does that mean you're always on call, though?

Yes. Not to come in. No, no, but, you know, just the thought of potentially getting a call in the middle of the night anytime. Yeah, but that happens in social work all the time. I mean other people that as well and what sort of things would you get called about? Well, randomestic violence

inevitably the words are can I just run this past you so it's just to support the social workers and really unreservedly they're doing it and they're doing a bloody good job they just need the affirmation and really support around the systems

You know, social workers that are on call or in ED, they're top line. You know, so it's just the support around systems, which, you know, it's kind of false economy not to provide that sport. Because you'll come in in the morning and have to fix the system the system. That's it. So it just sets up really good relationships. And it sets up that thing of having, it's reaffirming for every. Everyone to know that, hey, the domestic and family violence service is hospital-based. Yeah.

It just works. You know, as I've said before, we bandy around the best practice, best practice. That's the actual inaction best practice. Is there any type of social work that's never interested you? Youth, youth work. So to work in like a youth health service or a youth service. and I'll tell you why and it's purely selfish. As I said, I was weighing my 40s when I finished social work, right?

I also get this notion that we have to critically acknowledge you as a social worker, your history, your circumstances, who you are, are you the most appropriate fit for that area? and what can get lost in, no, it's all equal, equal opportunity is that critical viewing of that. So I knew from the moment I'd come out of social work, because there were times obviously I had to work with young parents, you know, in that women and child self, but, you know, there was a young parent social worker that working with the adolescents, that there was the high risk of transference, countertransference, now I had children of that age, right?

You're either the mother there's so much trauma with, or you're the mother I want. It wasn't about the client. I critically looked at would I be the best fit there for an adolescent? That's a personal decision. That's what I recognised. I mean, someone said to me, we were speaking about this the other day, actually. You'd have to critically look at it again.

Would you put a 24-year-old? And this isn't about age. You know, I want to be ages. Well, I can't be at 62. You know what I mean? Well, I can be. But, you know, would you put a 24-year-old social worker to work with a perpetrator of violence and abuse, a significant perpetrator

and not expect their massive grooming dynamic would you? I don't know to person no I would not but then there'd be

lots of arguments against that and I would accept that too so it must be a choice you know why wouldn't I go and work in age care now because it's too close

to the truth you know I don't want to you know it's so it's that too So I don't want to work that end Of that end I think it's really important to recognise What you're comfortable with It's what you're comfortable with

What fits To be critical about it You know again a term Banded around And social work all the time Is critical reflective practice Well if that doesn't start with the self Forget the rest

Must start with the self Critically What would you bring to that What are you really the right fit for that clinical area? Sure. Or are you right fit for clinical? I've known many social workers that, wow, are they fit into policy, community development

and done stunning? Could I do it? No. But they have the right persons for that job. Yeah. And those social work skills can go everywhere. Beautiful. Perfect.

That's what you've got to do. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say have been some significant change? since you've started as a social worker in this field and where do you see it heading? Where do you see the future of social work here? I've got great hope, I would say, for social work. Like that young man that I've mentored and I've mentored a lot of young social workers,

not just in literal age, but, you know, in experience stages, that they are going to take it out there. And I am so proud of them. And that they're not going to be turned into a pseudo-medical person, you know. That they're going to maintain their skills, maintain their critical knowledge, maintain their social justice values, their political values, their human rights values. And I've got a lot of faith. There's some outstanding social workers that are into,

in our discipline and we'll continue long after I'm hopefully an old woman sitting there, you know, applauding them from the sideline. Or somewhere in Spain or Italy. Ah, somewhere like that going, I knew, I knew you were going to make it to the top. Yeah. As long as you never, you know, get rid of your title. What have I seen? I have seen from a real positive thing that social work has really spread its tentacles,

so to speak, as the discipline. Clinicians, people who don't identify as clinicians, but social workers have really spread out there into all areas of this thing we call society. Because, let's face it, the social bit of the work we do, they've gone out there, you know. And I see that it's getting very competitive out there. I know some very prominent policy people, researches,

even in say the Ministry of Health really come from that strong social work background and so refreshing to see that so I've seen that and I think it's great I think we've kept up with things I couldn't imagine doing this 20 I don't even know if the technology was there but doing this and I think all that helps

you know but we can't get as a discipline we can't let our foot off the pedal otherwise we'll be mowed down so I'd like to see that so I have seen some really and continue to see some really positive things

in social work I just see us you know really raising the expectations I think we must push forward with registration we must push forward with accredited mental health

you know because we're not going to dismantle the biomedical model around that just overnight, but we can have massive influence if we do that. We must continue to fight on that political platform around, well, you know, had they've increased the fees, right? So really we need that massive advocacy in that area and hopefully we'll get that. I read an article about 18 months ago.

My headline banner was social work, the fastest growing profession. And it was an overseas article. Okay. And they are seeing the absolute relevance and prevalence of using this knowledge and skill base to address the issues we've talked about here today on many levels. Yeah. And how vital that discipline in brackets of skills, knowledge, the learning, the training that you need to even get there, and then, you know, continue with his vital role to play in society,

in a complex society. Yeah. Because our core training is about understanding the complexities of society. So why wouldn't we be out there in the expert roles there? Yeah, no point being insular. No point. Let's get out there. I think that let's continue.

Let's support young, budding, you know, political activists that own and acknowledge and embrace their profession. Let's give them all the support and encouragement we can to take our profession further and further. Speaking of, are there any projects or programs that you're working on at the moment? Well, it's ongoing and I guess I've got a few. I'm working on a specialist advisory working group around 24-hour integrated care, the people who present to EDs.

So it's similar but not the same as like a 24-hour sexual assault forensic response. Right? Now, the domestic violence. Yeah. So that is just brilliant. I'm so proud to be working with them because they see how that has been a massive gap to offer people who present,

so you're at that crisis point, predominantly an ED, or other services where they're in need of and they're wanting a forensic response, so a medical intervention around evidence. So we haven't had that. Never in this state. it's been rolled out wonderful

yeah I'm just privileged that I was asked to be part of that working group to advise on how we could you know

do that with other people of course they're on track and they're these people are doing a great job because they've had

to really push to get this and they have and that's great social work changing the system massively be part of that

one day when I retire to see that embedded in the response, all the different responses to people that have experienced violence and abuse, I think that'll be great. Are there any other resources or places that you would send people if they were interested in knowing more about this area of the profession? You know, I've got a few core, I think, essential readings. Yeah? And one is Judith Herman's recovery and trauma

Because I just think there's been much much much You know kind of bias of written about it But if you've got that core thing around And that's for therapeutic practice I think that's a great one of the great foundations that one Also the reading of narrative But reading Michael White's work around His work, I think, would be great.

For social workers, now I'm going back, but I absolutely loved her. She's still around. Professor F-O-K, F-O-K, very much a mentor. Some of Leslie Lang's work, such a guru. I had the real privilege of being taught by her at university. She's done absolute stellar work and so much research in this area. Other people are Kath Humphreys, her work and especially few looking at

around domestic violence and mental health which has been you know passion and mind there's two absolute stellar papers and mom was by Leslie Lang Jude Irwin Lindsay Napier

Sheree Tovin and that was called They never asked me a thing about that I think that's a central reading and the other one by Kath Humphrey and a colleague was you call it mental health, I call it symptoms of abuse. So those two readings, if you were ever going to get into this area, I think, cool. Yep, perfect. Well, thank you so much for your time again, Adele.

I really love this. And I feel like I could talk with you for hours about this. But I think it will be really valuable for other people, especially budding social workers, to hear about. the powerful work that you do in this space and people can do, continue to do, working together with other professionals in this area and really working at all levels of system to keep that in mind about what you're doing and what you're doing it. Oh, absolutely.

So, thank you for what you do as well. Oh, well, look, we are what we are and that's social workers. No matter what our tight toys and we should hold that. It should almost be, you know, sacred to us. Yeah. Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Adele,

please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm. slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or a few or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Megan,

a social worker and education and training officer in perinatal care for the Western Australia Department of Health. She also works as a sessional academic for Curtin University's Faculty of Health Sciences and is undertaking her PhD in maternal and child health. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to this podcast so you are notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.