Social Work Spotlight - Episode 34: Eileen

Episode Date: July 9, 2021

In this episode, I speak with Eileen, a Senior Social Worker who started her career in child protection before transferring to health. She worked for 10 years in the spinal and rehabilitation field across acute, subacute and community areas and was a Social Work Team Leader at Royal North Shore Hospital Cancer Services Team working in medical oncology. Currently, she works as a Case Manager at The National Centre for Veterans’ Healthcare, an outpatient clinic at Concord Hospital.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Open Arms: Veterans & Families Counselling - https://www.openarms.gov.au/National Centre for Veterans’ Health Care - https://www.slhd.nsw.gov.au/concord/NCVH/Social Prescribing program - https://chf.org.au/social-prescribingLegacy: supporting veterans’ families - https://www.legacy.com.au/This episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jmNLBmdvrZgajyhr1wsyMLaPu6wPaHRWTc4L6JM7ELM/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas at the profession each episode. I'm your host, Yasamine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Eileen. Eileen is a senior social worker who started her career in child protection before transferring to health. She worked for 10 years in the spinal and rehabilitation field across acute, sub-acute and community areas. Eileen was a social work team leader at Royal North Shore Hospital Cancer Services team and worked in medical oncology. She placed social work students at the University of New South Wales, and currently she works as a case manager at the National Centre for Veterans Health Care,

which is an outpatient clinic at Concord Hospital. Thank you so much, Eileen, for coming on to the podcast. It's wonderful having you here to talk about your experience in social work so far. Can I ask you when you started as a social worker and what brought you to the profession in the first place? I started it. Probably over 20 years ago. I started in the Netherlands. I'm from the Netherlands. And I started off in child protection. I worked for unaccompanied refugee miners organization. And I was the guardian

for miners that were that fled the country. I did that for a year and then I came to here to Australia. Wow. And is that just an area that you felt passionately about to begin with or is it something you fell into? No, I fell into it. The thing was that, well, I actually started off in psychology. I didn't want to become a social worker because my mom used to be a social worker. Yeah, I didn't want to do what my mom did. And so I did psychology, but I don't know. In the Netherlands, in those days, you actually, when you do psychology,

you enroll in a master's degree, the focus is to become a researcher. And it wasn't really what I wanted. I didn't want to do necessarily the research. I wanted to become a psychologist, but not necessarily research. So I wanted more the practical side of it, and then they suggested, well, maybe you should look at social work. So I went to study social work, which I never regretted. I loved it. But I didn't then want to do child protection because that's what my mom did.

And unfortunately, like for every year and the same as here in an Australia, you don't really get a choice where your placements are. You can give your preferences, but, you know, it's not necessarily that they were followed up. And mine was in child protection. So, inerrant that to that, then I ended up working in child protection because that's where the experience was. So, but I actually really enjoyed it. It was actually, well, it was quite difficult at times because, you know, the children had significant trauma. They came from countries where there was war, conflict, war. There were some economical beverages as well.

you know, young kids that the parents had said, off you go. And yeah, that was pretty tough for those kids, but it was really, you really made a difference in their lives and that was quite interesting. And after that, I migrated. I only worked there for a year and then I migrated to Australia. And I had a bit of an issue here at the time to get my qualifications recognised, which was a bit of a struggle and was quite disheartening for me because I already, you worked as a social worker, I knew because I had been here before that, you know, the degrees were quite similar. But at the time, the ASW wanted me to do a full year of studies, full time, and I said, no, that's not going to happen. That's just not really relevant. So I had to appeal twice,

and in the end, I had to provide more evidence, more evidence, more evidence. And then in the end, in the end, they said, yes, actually, you'd probably be right. So that took in here about about a year and a half. So I worked in the meantime at the Red Cross as a welfare worker, but in detention centres at tracing and refugee services because that was the background I had in the Netherlands. And that was a bit of a shock because I came from the Netherlands where refugees are living in the community and not in detention centres.

And I had absolutely no idea how it was here. I just thought, oh, I saw the act. That's what I, we do have detention centre. We have one where they arrive initially and then they move on to community centres. So I just thought that's, you know, how it worked here too, but that wasn't the case. And that was at the time that, you know, there was actually hardly anything known about. And a lot of things were just tried to be hidden for the population. And working for the Red Cross, you actually signed a clause that you're not allowed to talk about it.

So that was even harder. That was traumatising, maybe a big word. but it was very difficult. I actually found it very hard. I only did it for almost two years. I just had to leave. That was just the things that were happening there, that was just so against my values of being a social worker.

Yeah. So, and then I went to Burnside. I worked for family and youth support services, which was funded at the time by docs. It was still called dogs at the time. and that was for teenagers, at the age of 10, 10, 11 we accepted up till 18, who were at risk of becoming homeless or leaving home because of conflict at home and provided intensive support to the young person and the family.

And I really enjoyed that as well. But I wanted to study and I wanted to work part-time because I hadn't studied here before and I wasn't sure to do a master degree and working full-time. So that wasn't possible in the position that I was in, and that's by accident I rolled into health, where I just applied in positions that were part-time, and that's when I ended up at Spinal Outreach Service. And I did that for eight years,

and that was in the community. So that was for anybody, an adult service, that had spinal cord injury and reintegrating into community. So they had been in acute and rehab in the hospital, and we helped them integrating back into the community. So there was a combination of case management and social work services, clinical services. And that was, yeah, you met actually the clients at the homes, which I've always enjoyed. And I've always worked in the community, so that I really enjoyed that. And after that, I wanted something different.

but, you know, there wasn't much further to go within spinal fields because there was already a level four position. And I became a team leader at Royal North Shore and I did medical oncology in acute and was team leader of the Cancer Services team. And I did that for four years. And that was, I mean, I really enjoyed it in the sense that I enjoyed being a team leader,

and all went well, but working in cancer services, I worked in oncology where you actually had to deal with people dying on the ward because there was not enough palliative bets. There was no palliative bats actually specifically allocated to at Nordshaw because there's an acute hospital, trauma hospital. But, you know, reality is that the palliative care units were not always having bats available. and that was quite hard. I must say that I didn't get a lot of job satisfaction out of it

because people were not ready because they were in acute hospital and you didn't have the time to really prepare them. There was a really good palliative care service that we worked closely with, but you were quite limited because it's an acute hospital. You still had other people that you had. There was a very high turnover, other patients that you had to deal with and to look after. and so I left and went back to spinal field for a year and a half, did some case coordination.

Then I thought, oh, I'll do something completely different. I went to university and I did for one year organizing placements at UNSW for students, which was very interesting and on itself I loved working with the students, but I really missed the clinical work. So I went back to health. now I work for the National Centre for Veterans Healthcare. So I've done a lot of different things. Yeah.

With the oncology setting as well, the environment itself doesn't really lend itself to, if you've got an acute hospital ward, it's very sterile. There's a lot happening. There are lots of noises, lots of strange smells. And in a palliative care bed, you would have potentially carpet or you'd have, you know, decorations or you'd have quiet settings and families could really settle in. whereas the hospital acute environment, it's not very conducive to slowing things down and adjusting and preparing grief isn't something you can really process very effectively.

And I find that very difficult. I couldn't provide or look after the needs of the patients and the families. And I find that very hard. And that was one of the reasons I thought, okay, I can't do this any longer. It was also on itself, I didn't mind it's quite a privilege to be with people when they're dying and at their last stages of their lives and, you know, helping families. I wouldn't have mind continuing that, but it was just not being giving the time to help them enough. And the other side of it was as well, I had a full caseload and I had a really large team

as a team leader, which wasn't very sustainable either. So. Sure. Yeah. So you felt like you couldn't give them the time and space that they needed to be supported. Yeah. Interesting what you said about the Red Cross position and not being able to really talk to anyone about the work you do.

I feel like that also lends itself to a level of vicarious trauma and an inability to process the material and concepts that would have come up for you. That must have been really hard. We were very well supported. We were receiving specialised supervision, which was great. but just the fact that it was at the times it was in, so it was early 2000. It was at the time that a lot of boats arriving and they were turned away in those days that wasn't reported in the news.

We knew what happened because we heard the reports from the paper, but there was a lot of political lies at the time. And also what happened in the centers itself, It was just heartbreaking. So families had, you know, been there for a long time. When you were training and then later on working back in the Netherlands must have been fun, interesting, challenging, but also rewarding having someone else in the family who's a social worker that you can kind of bounce ideas off and talk to about the sort of things you do and know that they understand. How did you find that? growing up. I'm from a generation. My mum wasn't allowed to work after she had children,

but she's definitely understood, you know, what it was about. And yes, I always had a soundboard and could always talk to her. I always have had really good supervision. I guess I've always been lucky to receive that. And if there wasn't any supervision available, I would get private supervision anyway. But I think that that is really important supervision to actually have that soundboard and being able to get it off your chest and also learning about, you know, what I could self-care strategies and am I doing the right thing? Am I providing the right clinical support? I think at the time I was in a rocky relationship.

It is important to have somebody at home that understands and supports what you're doing. Yeah, the work you were doing in the Netherlands with the guardianship for unaccompanied minors were some of those children, people who had still had families, but their families sent them away for their own well-being? And if that was the case, was there any chance for reunification? Was that part of the role? So, yes, there was quite a mix. There were children that had been child soldiers, like, you know, from African countries.

There were at the time from Iraqi War, Afghanistan, Somalia, but also there were children from China. that were orphaned and family didn't want them anymore and they had to send them away. And there was actually in that job, there were a lot of things that I didn't get to see a lot of it because I was only there for a year, but towards the end of my stay there before I came to Australia, it became quite apparent to me that there were a lot of systemic issues that were not recognized. So from the Russian and Chinese, what do you call it, people smuggling. And they had got them over.

I remember there was one boy who, he was 16, he was working in a restaurant and he had to go to school. We couldn't get him there. He was working in a restaurant and slowly became quite apparent that he had no choice. He was forced because they paid his trip and he was put to work. I had another client. And she was a victim of trafficking slavery and was being put to work in the prostitution, had come out and came under the care of us. But, you know, that was very difficult.

She had nobody else. But then there was also the other side. There was a Chinese girl who she said she was at the time, I think it was about 16, 17. And it was just when they started doing the test, all the children were having to have a test of the wrist so that they can actually see your age, a bone scan. They only just started because that was something new that I had found out that that was quite conclusive. She was getting very nervous and told me in confidence at the time that she wasn't 16.

She was actually late 20s and her parents had sent her to study and to earn money and make a living so that she could provide for the family. probably an organizational issue that wasn't really recognized. I think I did a bit of calculation. It was about 25% of the clientele that were economical refugees. And we were told not to engage in any of those kind of conversations. And that was it. I left.

I don't know what came from that. But I also had young children who actually had been there and had been in the legal battle for years. And one of them, she came in. an unaccompanied minor when she was, I think, 16 or 17, already finished high school and started studying medicine and finished all the legal options and was going to transfer it back to Iran because she couldn't prove enough. There was not enough evidence. And she, I mean, it's not 20 years later, but we know that, you know, of those days, there were enough women

that were just, you know, married at and weren't safe to return home. So, yeah, that was very sad. Yeah. Difficult stories. Given that you've worked in both systems, have you been able to reflect on differences in, I guess, how the training is delivered or workplace or educational culture between the two countries? It's very similar to what they do here.

And I know because I've worked at the university here now for a year, which I knew I had spoken to enough of my colleagues to know, but it's very similar. The delivery, when I did it, there was a combination of, you know, lectures, projects, class, tutorials. You know, there was a bit of a mix when I was the last cohort and they were changing it to just projects only in lectures, which I didn't think that was going to be a success,

and I think they changed it back to a mix later on. the only main difference was that we had a smaller placement in year two. I can't remember the exact time frame, but it was about one day, but it stretched out over six months, six or eight months, but it was only one day. And then in your third year, you did a like a full-time placement for 10 months. That differed per university. So other universities, they did the same, what they do here, two different placements in and year three and year four.

But that was just the university that I went to, that was the option. So we don't know on us. We don't know necessarily. I had to do a thesis, but not all the universities did that. I had to do an oral exam as well. There was a little bit of differences in the universities, what they provided. And also every university had a bit of a different focus. The one that I went to was systemic.

focused like family systemic theories and another university was more feministic theories. So they all had a bit of a different flavour. That didn't mean you didn't get any of the other theories or any other, but that was just their history, I guess. And probably the interests of the different lecturers. Yeah. I guess the origin of social work, which I'm not maybe so familiar with as with the year in Australia, but, you know, in the Netherlands, it came from different class.

that, you know, try to help people that had, you know, had less and then the less fortunate. And it came more from a more patronistic view in those days. And that changed over years. And then in the 60s and 70s that changed. But, you know, there was a different background maybe, I don't know how it started here, but in history of social work, how the profession developed. And cultural, organizational, yes, I guess so. Europe is more socialistic from history origin background, whereas here there is more divide.

I don't know how to say that. But in Europe, the welfare system was much more labor-focused in Australian terms, which actually we just called that democratic. Sure. So there was a bit of a different political names to what it is here. And with that, also different policies. So it was much more accepted, I guess, to be a social worker maybe. I don't know. I found that sometimes when I arrived here, there was, in the beginning,

not everybody had the same opinion about who is entitled to welfare and who isn't. And I think in Dutch perspective, it's much more racist here. Although that has changed over time in the Netherlands as well. I have been away for 20 years, but I know my whole family is there, and I do know that that has changed there too. I guess with all the extremists and the migration, a lot of the tolerance has changed, which is sad. Yeah. Did you have connections in Australia before coming here, or you just decided Australia sounds good, let's try that? No, well, I needed to have a country that where they speak English and Western country, preferably,

because of, you know, where I came from where I'd be able to practice as a social worker. And the UK was too close. And there was no point I could stay home. America never really liked. Canada was too cold. And so I came here in Australia first. I did a year backpacking to see if I liked it. And that was it.

So. Yeah. It was a successful move then. It was, yes. I did leave with the idea this is, you know, where I'm going to stay. And 20 years later, I'm still here. Yeah.

Can you tell me about your master's in organizational coaching? What does that involve? And what do you feel that's brought to your social work practice? So I actually always had in mind because when I did psychology and I was looking for something else, I was weighing up between social work and HR. And I always thought, oh, you know, I'm going to do social work. I probably were like that. And maybe I changed careers later on.

go into HR. So then I found the organizational coaching, which is at the time when I did it, it was a mix of half human resource management and half coaching psychology. They did change that later. The organizational coaching degree was a bit of an interim before it changed to completely coaching psychology degree. So it was a new study. And like I said, it was what I did was half HR and half coaching psychology. And at the time I did it, the idea was going to change careers, but I finished at the time when the global financial crisis happened. And there was no way I would be getting a foot in the door in corporate world. So I did look into changing to HR, like within docs or other more social organizations, government.

I almost had actually a job. And then also government started to restructure and had budget cuts. So that was very unfortunate. So instead of then changing careers, I thought, well, I actually can maybe do a bit more of management. And that's when I went into team leading. It was really interesting. I love to study and what it brought me for social work because the psychology part was psychology, coaching psychology. And it's a complete new school within psychology itself now.

it's been accepted as a new new study really and I learned a lot about health coaching and that's how I used it because I was working in rehab at the time, a community rehab and a lot of about motivational interviewing, solution focused, coaching and linking that actually with organizational cultures. So yeah, I loved it. It was really helpful and certainly broadened my horizon and learned a lot more about psychology and how to motivate people. Yeah, great. And can you tell me about your current role at the National Centre for Veterans Health Care? What might a typical day look like for you?

It's a case management position. I'm not a social worker there. So we have a social worker separately to that as well. Because it's a new service, we actually set it up from start. And that's actually how I actually ended up doing, because I had done quite a lot of case management coordination roles before. but also I had been part of setting up new services. At the time, spinal outreach service was fairly new.

And I had worked in between, also done when I was working part-time, later on setting up a new program as well. So it is a service that's specifically for the younger veterans in that sense, I mean, anybody from 17 up to whatever age is eligible. but the issue is being that the younger veterans were not really engaging with the RSAs and because it became an ageing population, the veterans in RSAs. So there's been quite a bit of a gap, and DVA has been struggling with that in that sense that they didn't engage with the RSA, they didn't receive the support,

but they had still had a lot of health issues and there was nothing specifically for them. So they were quite separated in their care. So they had a pain specialist in one hospital. They saw a psychiatrist privately, a psychologist elsewhere. Nobody is really talking to each other. So the National Center for Veterans Health Care, the NCBH has four different specialties, which is pain specialist, rehab specialist, drug health psychiatry, mental health psychiatry, psychologist for every specialty plus neuropsychology,

and then a full allied health team, including social work, occupational therapy, physiotherapy, exercise physiology, diversional therapy and dietitian. And then I'm one of the case managers. And so we as a case managers, we coordinate the care because we're such a big team. We coordinate the care. So we do intake. We do risk assessments.

We present them to the multidisciplinary team. We make sure that everybody's on track. It's a short-term outpatient service. so it's not an inpatient but outpatient. And it's quite intensive. So they come for half a day, sometimes a week or sometimes a full day a week or sometimes even two, three times a week. And so they have a lot of appointments.

And as a case manager, we coordinate that. We also are the point of contact for external services, for family members, because it's such a big team that they just have dealing with one person. And as a case manager, we've helped setting up the service before. we opened the doors, we had written policies, guidelines, procedures and all of it's needed. And a lot of things have been set up by our manager, but we've been certainly active. And we also follow up referrals. So we have the contacts with all the services that refer to us and keeping those contacts and providing in services to services, you know, that don't know about what we do,

which is still very active because we've only, so I started two years ago and we opened a year and a half ago for service. And then unfortunately COVID happened. So there's been a bit of a, I mean, we're still busy, but there was a bit of a lull in that sense that, you know, not everything was possible. We had to change over to telehealth, which was part of our service anyway because we are national service.

And a typical day looks like I schedule in veterans to have appointments with clinicians. I meet with them before or at the end of their appointment schedule. I make sure that they're on track. I do intakes. I liaise with all the clinicians to make sure that the care plan, you know, make sense and that the goals that they've set at the beginning, that they still on track with all of that. What else? We do research. It's the main things for a typical day. We do a lot of meetings. And what interested you in taking a case management position as opposed to a social worker and the team? So in all my roles I've always had, big part has been case management or coordination,

pretty much in every job that I've been in. So I've always been doing both. So in the roles of family and youth support services, that was case management, as case manager. And in spinal outreach service, we had different roles, really, but half of it was case coordination. and then the other half was providing clinical services, social services. And then on top of that, we did rural clinics.

So we did also education to our clinicians in the rural areas, part of that. And only when I was at Norture, I probably didn't do case management necessarily as just, I mean, you do a little bit of it, but not that main focus. So I've always liked it as well. I've always liked both. But I think also at this stage in my career, yes, I miss to have the intensive contact in the sense of doing the counselling or treatment with the clients. But it's also nice to have a bit of a break from it. Yeah.

What do you think it is about your social work background that translates well into a case management role? I think it's a big part of being a social worker regardless. I mean, in a lot of positions. Case management is something that, specifically. specific focus in universities here, but it was one of my subjects, case management, that you get taught. So I think it's basically organizing people's lives, really, that are not so good at it. Then you're teaching the skills to organize their own lives. That's the idea that, you know, they don't need you eventually, empower them to, you know, take control over their own lives and

issues, whatever problems might be, and linking them in with resources. So there is always a big part of that is in social work. Yeah. I've always liked both. What do you think you'd say you love most about your job then? Working with veterans. Even before I've worked in the procedure, you know, veterans, but I had no idea about the world of DVA.

I had absolutely no idea that that existed because part of my career had worked in health, New South Wales Health. And I knew about the existence and that they provide services, but how much into what degree and how, you know, big of organisation it is, I had absolutely no idea and what, you know, the rules are and how much forms and bureaucracy there is. My God, that's another thing there. Yeah. What do you think you find most challenging other than forms in the bureaucracy? I really enjoy doing the job that I'm doing because we actually make a difference. It's a service that's really well supported by the Sydney

local health district. It's a help-funded service and they put in a lot of their own money pretty much. And it is something that, you know, we actually are providing a service where it's a big gap because a lot of the veterans were just falling through the cracks and nothing like what we do exist actually anywhere. DVA is now setting up wellness centers, which is more focus of linking all the service organizations that work with veterans together and trying to, because there's so many out of there. And not everybody is aware of what's really available. So they are trying to really work on that, which is great.

But this has what we do is called a real treatment health focus. And we don't deal with the DVA legal aspects. We leave that up to others. We really provide treatment and linking them in with long-term. health services and working together with the GP so that they have a good understanding what's out there and where veterans could be referred to. Yeah, no, it sounds like a wonderful program. Yeah, one question that they always ask is, you know, are you Aboriginal background or

Torres Strait Islander? They might ask, are you a veteran? But some of these veterans actually don't see themselves as veterans. And they would say, actually, we need to ask, have you served in the defence? force because they don't feel that they are a veteran. Don't really necessarily recognize it. Do you think that's a generational thing because they're younger? I'm guessing when you say younger, I picture under 65s.

Yes, yeah. So I wonder what it is about culturally why someone younger might not associate with being a veteran. Well, then not all have necessarily have been deployed, but it doesn't mean that they haven't served their country. and they might have been deployed to non-conflict operations and still have seen horrific stuff. But in their head, you know, your veterans is if you've been to war, which that's not necessarily the case. Yeah. And many of them have, and they just don't like to talk about it and wouldn't answer that question.

And a lot of them find it very hard to seek help. And when they come to us, some of them are very unwell. Given that you've had quite a bit of experience in different areas, Have you seen many changes in social work in the fields of spinal rehab or in oncology treatment since you've been working here? Spinal rehab, yes. It is coming more and more now about more technology will help people with a spinal cord injury. Not for the complete spinal cord injuries yet. We're not there yet, but, you know, they're certainly working and making progress.

They're incomplete, definitely. there has been so many more technology and equipment out there that has been giving them more opportunities to do things, to be part of the community and society. But it is expensive. NDIS is a wonderful idea. And I actually went back to spinal field when NDS just rolled out and it was an absolute nightmare.

But I know you work for eye care. I don't know what all you're doing. But when Lifetime Care was established, that took five years before. was really working well before it was recognized, you know, there was some issues there that they needed to work on and they did and it's a really good program now. So, NDS is going to take a bit longer, unfortunately, because it's so much bigger and not just, you know, spinal cord injury is actually 1% only, but they are the most complex. But I'd certainly believe that it

will be an improvement for people with disability. There is still a long way to go now. They rolled it out literally. They rolled out NDAS. without having policy on procedures, how actually the service should be working. Nothing was in place, nothing. And I have no idea how on earth you can do that. So people actually in spinal cord injury ended up at time of rollout of NDIS because they could not access equipment, home modifications. The minor ones, yes, but not the complex ones. And they ended up a year longer in hospital, in rehab.

That's a long time. They already, on top of being in an acute hospital, and for a high-level spinal cord injury, you're in rehab at least six months, sometimes to 12 months, on top of that. So that's two years. So that I'm not sure who came up with that idea, but they have worked on it. And certainly they have made some progress there and things are improving slowly. Any other things that I have seen in oncology, there is more treatment, trials that people are more eligible for, but it varies in what kind of cancer you have,

that there is quite a big divide in that, I think. I only did the acute ward oncology mainly, so I haven't really dealt necessarily with the people that were getting better. Occasionally, I would, because there was nobody in that position at the cancer center at the time, certainly the cancer cancer does a lot of good work, but there's a lot of of gaps still in the support. And now with the NDIS, which is very sad, the people that have a chronic illness now falling through the gaps, whereas the people with disability are getting much more focused because of NDIS and more eligibility for services and support, but chronic health. Because that was, in the old days, that was under hack and addict and, you know, that's

all of the sudden disappeared and nothing had come in place yet. Yeah. Slowly, that's changing as well, but there is now big gaps there. It's even more incredible than what you were saying about your role in veterans' health care and you had a full six months to set up the program and get everything looking the way you wanted it to get the policies and procedures in place before you actually had any clients, as opposed to the NDIS rollout where people were having to make it up as they go along effectively. Yeah, yeah.

It's been a vision of the Concord Hospital that used to be, it's, you know, it's still, is a repatriation hospital. And it was a vision of the hospital for a long time. And, you know, there was been many years before that to get this vision together to this program. And absolutely it's something that really is needed. But also there has been a lot of thought and support going into it. And I think that if only we could spend more of that thought into other areas as well,

that will be really good. We deal with a lot of homelessness within, amongst federal. veterans and at least there is specific support and services for veterans. If you're under the general public, bad luck. It's really hard. Yeah. Are there any other areas of social work that have interested you, any other skills or knowledge that you'd like to develop?

Oh, you know, I always like to learn. And I've always said one day maybe I'll go back to working with young people again. And I've been interested in transitional care for young adults so that they, you know, had been sick from when they were young children or teenage. And then going into the adult services transferring. And they made quite some changes into that in the last 10 years. So I've always been interested in doing maybe something in there. I mean, before I started working for the NCVAs, I didn't realize what was out there regarding that. So you don't know what you don't know.

who knows what's out there. Yeah. And you've mentioned you have an opportunity to engage in research where you are. Are there any projects or programs that you're working on at the moment? So as a new service, we've been doing research about the satisfaction of the veterans and their families, also about effectiveness. And including in that about the different specialties, have we helped them with their pain? Have they got better?

Have they, you know, mobility? So there is some surveys that we've used, Equal, which is the abbreviated version, satisfaction survey. I'm more on the sideline. Somebody else in my team is much more involved with it. Return to work, I think, was the other one. Yeah. Oh, that's good.

It's nice being able to dip your fingers in different areas and see how the research can inform what you do and make sure that you're on the right track and that you're constantly updating the practice based on what you're finding. Yeah. Well, the idea is that. this isn't going to be an ongoing. This was just an initial because we were a pilot service. We've only just been all made permanent. Right. Congratulations. That's exciting. Thank you. That was supposed to happen much earlier but because of COVID that was delayed. So it was initially

a pilot service for the idea was for a year and that was then extended to a year and a half because of COVID and also we didn't get as many clients through because of COVID. So. Sure. So yeah. certainly will be continuing research. And this is just more from a case management perspective, but all the other specialties, they're going to be doing their own research and all the disciplines as well.

Have you found that people are happier to stay with telehealth or do people still want to come at the hospital? Do you have a physical clinic where people can come to as well? Yeah, so it varies a bit. I mean, it's much better now. We're not just back to normal really because, you know, COVID is not as much of an aspect anymore. But last year, people stopped coming to us because they just were not keen to come in,

even though certain states that was possible again. And not everybody is willing to engage via telehealth. Others just didn't want to come in and only wanted telehealth. So there was a bit of a mix there. It is harder to build report via telehealth only. So the program for us is that if they, for more, rural areas or interstate, they can come and stay with us. We have actually got accommodation and that's specifically for veterans when they're having treatment with us. And they come for the

first one, two weeks and they have intensive initial assessments. And so we see them. They get a bit of an idea what we're doing. And then they go back home and we continue vitality health. And sometimes they come back in between or some more towards the end. We only see veterans for maximum about four months. So usually it's between two and four months. And then we linked them in with local services. So telehealth is always going to be part of our service. And for some, it's the only thing that they have because there's just not enough around in their area. And I think it's quite, yeah, quite good that that's actually has, because of COVID that has become much more part of our lives now and made it easier for us that people accept it much more easier. Because,

know, everybody's so used to it now. But face to phase is still better. For pain specialists and a rehab specialist, they need to do a physical examination. Certain things are just not possible. They have to come in for that. But face-to-face, it's just, I guess, a different level of intensity.

The distance is literally less. And you build better report. And engagement varies per person. Some of them are really good at it than others. When they're so unwell, it's really hard. Yeah. Mentally unwell.

It's good that you have that flexibility there though. Yeah. And when they have been drug health issues, then, you know, it's better than they come because they actually have to come in and they have to make an effort to be presentable because otherwise you can't see them. That's right. If anyone was interested in knowing more about this area of practice, where would you direct them? Are there any good resources out there?

Well, there is actually at ease. It's from Open Arms. It's a website, so openarms.gov.org. But it's linked to the term at ease. And they have a help professional section, which has a lot of good resources and explaining about, you know, what is PTSD and anxiety and what veterans kind of issues they can come to you and how they can be referred to open arms as well for counselling. And it has a lot of resources as well. And then there is our website about our service. and that's NCVH at Concord.

It's got a different website though, but SLHD. nsw.gov.org. dot AU slash Concord slash NCVH. Mm-hmm. So. Yeah, great. And I can put those links in the show notes. People can go off and have a read if they want to.

Yeah. Yeah. I've got a question for you. Yes. Yes. Go ahead. How did you come up doing this? Ah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, oh. I guess firstly I needed a little project, so something to do outside of my regular work. And I wanted to do something sort of social worky. And I had a few people that I know or people that had been introduced to me that were thinking of studying social work or had been working in the field, but wanted to do something different and didn't quite know where to go. And I found myself in a little bit of a mentoring role in terms of point.

pointing people in the right direction or recommending other courses or things that they might be interested in taking to go into a certain field. And I listen to podcasts all the time when I go walking when I'm on the bus. So I just thought it might be an interesting forum if some of the people in my life are benefiting from hearing about what other people do and what avenues might be out there. Maybe other people might be interested as well. So I thought I'd start with my existing networks, people that I'd worked with before and then kind of branched out from there. And I've loved the opportunity to meet with people that I wouldn't normally come in contact with and get a sense of what they're doing because in so many cases,

there are fields of social work that I would never have come across or thought about. It's really interesting that we've kind of pushed our way into very different fields of social work where it makes sense when you talk to someone and you think, oh yeah, we've had such an interesting variety of skills and experience and training. And yes, it lends itself very well to veterans affairs and veterans' health care, or lends itself really well to social work in schools or missing people. It just makes sense. But so much at the time you don't hear about those roles in social work

because traditionally you think of child protection or clinical health care. So, yeah, I've loved the experience and I love that people, give me their time and just share what it means to be a social worker for them and what's brought them to this area of work. I find it incredibly interesting. And you work at ICA? I do. I do. So I work in the workers care programs. So I support people who are severely injured in workplace accidents. So it's similar to the Lifetime Care and Support Program in terms of our procedures and how we support people but different legislation it's under workers comp and yeah we support people who are injured at work to get back to some level of activity or functioning based on what their goals are so we have that

person-centered approach and I have a case management role so I'm always interested to hear what what that means for people what what is a case manager and what does it mean to be a case manager who's also a social worker yeah for me I've always liked both aspects social work case management, but also the more treatment side of, you know, clinical intervention. I don't think one or the other is better. I actually like the combination of both, which I have done mostly. This is actually the first time that I'm not employed as a social worker. Other case managers are also health clinicians. One of them is an OT, the other one is an EP, with the idea that we all have different, bringing different perspectives to the role because, you know, it's such a diverse

service that we have. But I've always liked case management as well. So yeah, I don't know if you heard of social prescribing program. Yeah, yeah. I've been part of setting that up. Oh, wow. In the beginning. I think it has grown out, but much bigger now. I was only there for about a year and beginning to develop that. Yeah. As you're sharing your history, I've seen many parallels. I started in refugee and migrant settlement, slightly different to what you were doing. But and worked in clinical in the rehab setting for a long time before heading over to eye care. And similar to you, I really missed that clinical work. I missed having that regular involvement with people.

And I like that we've moved to a more internal case management model now where I can be very involved with people initially following their accident and helping support them transition back into some sort of normality and getting home and adjusting to all of that. So it's been an interesting transition. And I must say that, you know, I really enjoy what I'm doing. And then on itself, I still have quite a lot of contact with the veterans because I'm at their point of contact. And I still, together with the multidisciplinary team,

we're working together on their care plan. Would I want to go back to social work and do a bit more of that, maybe? At the moment, I'm quite happy where I'm at. And the other thing is, is in my position as case manager, I deal a lot still with homelessness. So because we are the first point of contact when they make the referral, we also do the risk assessment and deal with their homelessness because they're not necessarily ready yet to come to us because they're not stable enough. So we link them in with hospital, acute admissions if needed. So there is still that clinical aspect that I'm doing as well, even though it's more focused off case management. It's still a clinical aspect there.

And veterans are very, it's quite a different way of working with them than I've with any client group before because they come from such a regiment structured job, really. They don't understand the public system and how civilians have to organise their own health. And so it's something that, you know, you actually teach them and that's part of my role. You still teach them about, you know, coordinating and learning new skills of looking after them. which is a social worker, I guess, you know, I bring my social work perspective into that, whereas my colleagues might do that different. I seem to remember back in my hospital days, eligibility for veteran support is first and

foremost for the veteran. If the person the veteran had passed away, their spouse was eligible for support, but not if the veteran was still alive. Is that still the case or is that changed? They're setting up more and more support services for family, but that has always been a bit of an issue. Legacy has changed, is changing their criteria because also the older veterans, they don't, from World War II, there's a few left, but not many. And so they didn't have a lot of clients in that sense, although there is, you know, still enough that they pass away. but mainly more now through suicide rather than in active duty.

And there has been a lot of campaigning about internally within DBA that, you know, families, they need support too. So we don't provide treatment to the family, but we certainly support them. And we pretty much engage them with them, the idea that they should be part of the treatment that their partner is receiving. They have access to the social worker, which is part of the social work mandate, of course. You know, they can see the social worker. They can be linked in with carer support services or other services as needed.

So for us, there is a big focus on the family as well. Yeah. And it is slowly changing. There's still a long way to go, I guess. But there are more services now just for families and partners as well. That's good to hear. I've enjoyed hearing also about your various fields of social work that you've had an opportunity to delve into and your efforts to contribute to enhancing capacity within case management roles and just the

different things that you've been able to do. So team leading and supporting students and your clinical work and I guess continuing that social work focus of skill acquisition and coordination and taking or supporting people to take control of their lives and to empower them. And I think what I'm taking away is you're willing. to just be open to new opportunities and new experiences and anything that comes your way because it's all a great learning opportunity and it all uses your skills and enhances the roles that you're in by being a social worker. Obviously, I'm slightly biased, but I think it's just a really

good example of how we can be so helpful and do so much in quite a wide variety of roles. Oh, absolutely. And that's what attracted me to. social work from the beginning. There is so many different fields, so many different things possible, that you name it and there is social work. It doesn't matter where it's disadvantaged people. That's where social work is. Yeah. Thank you again so much, Eileen, for being part of this little project of mine coming onto the podcast and sharing your experience. It's incredibly wonderful to hear about what you've been up to and I think inspiring for next generations and people who think I wonder what other types of social work might be out there for me.

It's just about keeping your ear to the ground and being creative and how you use your skills. Thank you for asking. Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Eileen, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work Spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at Gmail. I'd love to hear from you.

Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Lachlan, an early career social worker who has experience working in a youth drug and alcohol NGO providing specialist homelessness services, and his interest in the social complexities of this client group has seen him more recently working in an opiate treatment program where he has found a passion for domestic violence, mental health, institutionalisation and homelessness. I release a new episode every two weeks.

Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.