Social Work Spotlight - Episode 4: Chad

Episode Date: May 29, 2020

In this episode, Chad and I discuss his background in forensic social work, how his strong value base and overcoming Stage IV cancer have led him to develop his own practice to support cancer survivors and those experiencing mental illness and addiction and founding a tech company with a mobile application assisting patients with scheduling, encouraging self-care and reflection and to legitimise medical cannabis as part of a holistic approach to their healthcare.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Chad’s web site - cwcounselling.com.auChad’s Instagram, Facebook and LinkedIn - Chad WalkadenOnTracka app - www.ontracka.comThis episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pAG6Vj_F10nIrQfXppEDghUEWzVXy997/view?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode. I'm your host, Yasmeen McKee Wright, and today's guest is Chad. Chad is an experienced forensic social worker, three-time stage four cancer survivor, and tech founder of OnTracker, a mobile application that is assisting patients to legitimize medical cannabis into their healthcare. During a life-changing four years, Chad faced and overcame a stage four terminal cancer on three separate occasions while at the same time simultaneously supporting his mother with a stage 3 bowel cancer. He has been published in Discovery's journals, the journal of gastroenterology, hepatology and digestive disorders, and he was invited to speak at the 26th annual Congress into cancer

science and targeted therapies. While Chad lives in Sydney, at the time of this interview, he was in lockdown in Peru, unable to come home. We'll join Chad midway through him telling me about his experience just to provide some context to his incredible resilience and fortitude. As of this episode's release date, May 30th, 2020, Chad remains in Peru. Yeah, it's just everyone's in quarantine as well. So there's like five people at the house. And it's like day 33. So, yeah, it's just a pointless exercise at this time, trying to arrange, make arrangements for what's going to be happening because there's still no, there's no information really.

This is meant to go on for another, I think, eight days, but it's very likely that they're then just going to say, because each time it's come out, they've extended it. So it's been okay, we're just going for two weeks, and then they extended it again, and then they added in no females out between Monday, Thursday and Saturday, no males out of the other days, and then no one was allowed out.

So it just keeps on changing, so. Oh, that's so hard. Yeah. Well, hopefully, for your sake, there's some sort of clarity soon, at least to give you an understanding. of what you can plan for because everything's just so up in the end? Everything, right?

So it's, yeah, all I'm trying to control is what I can control, and that is kind of control my business. Are you able to do some of your work at least? All my work is online. So all my work, I converted, not most of it, yeah, probably three years ago. I set up my business in a way for it to be innovative and come to people rather than that government model that we were both used to where people need to fit into nine to five, etc. I just saw that as a bit outdated.

So, yeah, I wanted to change all that and open up accessibility. So it wasn't just where I was at the time where I could provide services, but I could connect with anyone around the world who was wanting to utilize my work and my knowledge. When did you start social work and why did you choose this as a profession? Great question. After I finished high school, I was looking at becoming a teacher. So I did a Bachelor of Education. I had a year off.

I did a, in my final year of education, I had a few, there was a number of different placements. So there was similarities between education and social work with the emphasis on placement. And I was doing a placement. And at the time, I was also working on a recreational program for children and young people with disabilities.

And then I was in a school as an aid as well. The pathway that I was looking at going down was becoming a teacher, but for children with special needs and a high complex needs. and so the best way there's no i don't see and this was told to us in the first year there's there's not much point in doing this education unless you got the hands-on experience to go with it as well so that's when i sought out these different opportunities and i was working as i said

i was supporting this young boy and i was doing a placement and i was a young guy at the time as well like this is eight to sixteen something years ago and so there were things about who i was as a young man and probably didn't fit into the school system as well as i probably could have like there would have been value there for sure if I stuck at it, but there was an experience that didn't really sit well with me. And I wasn't convinced that that's what I needed to do, probably needed some to mature a little bit more as well. It was a three-year course.

I had a year off. So I was still just coming up for 21 when I, when I finished my first degree. So as you know, like there was so much more growing for me. And then we had a, we had someone come in to one of our classes. And they were talking about social justice and exploring indigenous population of Australia. And then there was like another topic as well.

And it just seemed to fit with me. It just seemed to speak to me. And immediately I was like, this is what I want to do. I don't want to finish my education now. I want to go in and I want to do this. And there was an opportunity to do an accelerated degree in social work. So it was at the Australian Catholic University. So it was over two years.

But there was also winter school as well. So it was three semesters instead of two. semesters and there was no gen ed subjects. I was all social work topics. And it was amazing. It was now, I've got lifelong friends from there. You know, Damien, of course. Yeah, it was great. It was, it was really, really good. And it's what I wanted to do. There was a, like, I was, I really enjoyed it back then. And I still, to this day, love what I do. It's pretty amazing that you knew even before you started studying social work that this is what you wanted to do. Like, I think that's quite unusual. Normally people figure that out as they start their placements or even

maybe well into their actual work life. But was there a time after that maybe when you were studying or when you'd started actually working as a social worker that you knew that you were in the right place? I, from my first placement, I did a placement at a community mental health setting. And so I was very fortunate to have some really good supervision. And as you know, it was 500 hours. So I can't remember how many weeks that was and my math isn't working off the top of my head. But I remember about after six weeks into displacement. So I were seeing some fairly chronically unwell people. And I was under some really good supervision.

And then I started to take on some cases myself. And there was also like, I think like that counselling and therapeutic side of it, I see it as an art. And I really saw it as an art back then when I was first on that placement. And I remember my supervisor and I, he started, he was saying to me, I want you to come in and give some input. As I said, it was probably like six weeks into it. And there was this one lady in particular. And I remember there was just, there was just this question that I asked.

We were exploring a whole range of different things. And then I came in with a comment that explored. You know, like, I always find that if people say something once, it's a cue, just to note whether they have put that out there for a reason. whether they want you to connect with that and then go down that path. And if they say it's second time, they're giving me a very strong warning and a signal that, hey, I'm kind of willing to talk about this if you pick up on it. And then if they say it for a third time, I think you've got to go there. So I can't remember exactly when, as I said, this is many years ago.

But she mentioned something about dancing and that she hadn't danced in ages. Obviously, it wasn't like this. I'm not doing it justice at all. But there was just one little command. And it was just, when was the last time you danced? Or what would it take you to do? Something like that. And the whole room changed, the atmosphere changed.

She lit up, he lit up. And there was this sense of satisfaction for me, I guess, in that. And that's what I mean about it being an art. There was this moment from asking a question that changed the dynamic of that session. And then, like outside of university and outside of place, the books that I would read were about psychology, about different types of therapy, you know, different forms of theory to inform what I was doing. It was just, I loved it.

So that's still to this day, most of the content that I absorb, whether in audio or books is to support my practice. And did you go on to study more or did you finish with your bachelor? Yeah, so I went on and did, I went over. So I worked in Australia for a few years and then I went. went over to the UK. And when I was in the UK, I did further study. So I was at Middle Sex University in London. And I did, what was it called? I was on the way to getting a master's, but I ended up getting cancer. So I had to pull out early than that. So I came out

with a diploma or I can't remember. And then I also did an advanced certificate in systemic therapy as well. So yeah, that was a game changer for my practice, learning, you know, how a practice in accordance to systemic guidelines and the different content that I was learning and the different strategies. And the most beneficial aspect of that was that I was working full time. And then on the side, I was having the opportunity to study at the Berwick Institute in London. And so I had all these live cases. And I had all this knowledge that was coming in and a lot of information.

And by then I'd already been practicing for, say, four to five years. And then I had my replacements as well. plus the time when I was doing the Bachelor of Education, not working in a social work context, but having a lot of contact with carers and families of children with challenging behavior and different mental health needs. And so it was that real opportunity from when you see some mature age students at university and they're able to apply it to practice, right?

And it's like, okay, they know something that I don't. And I really felt that that was then my opportunity to bring these strategies into life cases. and when you start changing the way you work and you start seeing the responses and you start seeing the change it's that's just all you need to continue going and never look back it's one of those just in terms of my professional development that was there's probably two to when I was working in government rather than private practice two significant moments that was one of them when I started learning how to practice differently and then the other one was my supervisor and for the

first probably six months I started working in a different context I was in a child protection role, front line child protection in one of the most complex boroughs in the UK. So it was very, very challenging work, extremely challenging work. And I came over there and it was about six months into my role and my supervisor said to me, I'm not going to instruct you anymore. You need to start thinking you've got it in there and you need to bring it out because I was always asking. I was always asking and I wasn't leading.

and he enabled me to kind of have belief in my capacity to assess and my capacity to intervene. And that was such a significant moment, I think, yeah. And as a young social worker, it is quite difficult. You often don't have that confidence. And even as a really experienced social worker, you can have moments of doubt. So that was a really powerful thing.

It sounds like for him to just let you go and trust that you had the experience and knowledge behind you. Yes, yeah, for sure, because risk is subjective, right? Of course. Like even though it's, even though it's a case that there's guidelines and of course there's guidelines, but it's still subjective, I think.

So you could, and it depends on who you're spending time with, like how I see circumstances now, like I could not fit back into the role that I did before. So the child protection role, like the way that I see the world has changed completely. My practices have changed and I wouldn't fit into, I don't think I wouldn't fit into, standard practice anymore.

That's a thing that comes up a lot for me is I see people who are in not social work roles. They might not be clinical or community based, but they still use the values and they use the skills. And I think that's probably something that people don't realize is that social workers are everywhere. And it's really about how we apply the knowledge and the skills. And it sounds like you've got a lot of you inform your social.

constantly. You say you're doing a lot of reading. Do you ever feel as though you want to do more education? I feel that there's two paths that I can go down. There is a path where I could go back and be able to get a title. So go back to university and go back. And like I know that when I've taken this step to do what I need to do, I'm experienced. I'm very qualified. Like I worked in a number of different cases and circumstances in the UK and Australia, you can probably hear it in my voice now. But when go into private practice or you have an idea like I have had and people look at you and say, but you're not qualified,

but you're not a psychologist, what do you know? That comes up so many times. And not as much now, four years in, like coming, you know, it's not as frequent. And this is something that, and this is why I love, this is why when I heard about this podcast, it's why I wanted to come on, because I think the standard of social work needs to improve. And I think it's having conversations like this to make people aware that we're not just, oh, you did social work, that's great, you know?

How did you earn money during that time if you were just doing it voluntary? Or you're just helping people, like not seeing, like completely. The integrity of the profession. completely undervaluing the skill completely. And I don't think, you know, there's many, many factors that I think contribute to that. However, going down the path, I'm in a position where I think I'm always learning. And I think the most learning that I have is outside of university, the most learning I had when I had time off work.

So I had two years off work because I got diagnosed with the stage four cancer. And the life expectancy of under 24 months. And at that time, my learning was, it was the most rapid growth that I've had because I was desperate and vulnerable to understand how I could change my thinking and my behaviours. Because I was going in and a lot of times I've been working with drugs, mental health, domestic violence. And there'd be ways that I'd be able to support them to make changes. But then it was me and then the power imbalances that come up as a patient going through a health system, being the person on the other side. and that's those social work values about power imbalances and the voice of the patient, et cetera, and patient reported outcomes.

Like someone who's a white male who's educated, loses their voice in hospital, what chance do other people have? This is conversations that I was having with some dear friends of mine and, you know, journaling about as well. And that's, there are all the principles, right, that you spoke about before, and that's always going to be a part of me. But will I go down for the study? No, I want to be able to demonstrate.

I think there's two ways. Like if we're looking at 2020, I think there's two ways to go about that, and that is you can go down and get more studies, or I can go out and what I'm doing, developing really good programs, evidence-based programs, getting my work published, getting data to support what I'm doing,

and being able to produce those results. And then through, like, the title of the founder and being able to get really good results, I think there's a different pathway that has been, created. What are your thoughts on that? It's really interesting. I'm just thinking back, you talk about power imbalances, and I'm just reflecting on the fact that social work is very much a female-dominated field. Having said that, three of the first four interviewees that I've spoken

with have been male, and that's just really interesting. And I'm just thinking, well, I'm wondering how we can encourage more men to become social work professional. What is it that stopping them? Is it the pay rates? Is it that historically more women have been social workers? Is it that there's a perception of social workers or of mental health care that lends itself more to women? But from what I see, there are excellent career opportunities for men and the industry

would definitely benefit from having that balance. Yeah. I think there's a number of, I don't think it's represent. presented well enough as a profession. I think it's been devalued, like straight up out of university. My title wasn't able to be a social worker. I wasn't allowed to have that title. I had to have the title as a case manager.

So this is how many years ago now? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. So already back then, my first role was you can't have that title. And there was a curiosity about, okay, if I'm part of a body, why aren't they more vocal? Why are they just accepting this? This isn't okay.

We're getting devalued. And as you saw, like my voice went just recently, and it is something that came up so many times. I would show all my study that I've done and the question that just look at me and say that you're not qualified. And there's a bias, right? So that's my own personal experiences there, 100%.

A standard psychology degree, four years compared to what I've done on a personal level and professional level, it wouldn't even be looked at it. It'd be like, oh, we've got this psychologist in and they're here to help me, right? And if you see, yeah. So, I don't know, it's a challenge.

I think there's a number of different reasons. I don't think the governing body has been strong enough. I definitely don't think it has been. I love someone like Brunay Brown, who is a social worker. I think it's more like conversations with the states. As soon as I have conversations out, of Australia, well, this is for everything, not just for social work, but you're recognized.

So you're recognized in the States and my story and my skills are seen and validated in the US. But in Australia, it's, yeah, it's just not up to par. So in that role where you were a case manager, was that advertised as a social work role? No. So it was case management, but accepting one of those generic roles will accept OTA. will accept psychology students and will accept social workers. So my role in government, so then I went over, then I got a promotion and I worked as like a level two case worker, still not able to get a title. Then I went over to the UK and that was definitely, you had to be a social worker.

Then I was a consultant social worker over in the UK and then I got diagnosed with cancer. And then I had two years off work and then I came back to work at the Family Court of Australia as a family consultant and you had to be either a social worker or psychologist. You were respected there. So it didn't matter. The title didn't matter there. There's just no consistency. And are you able to talk to how your cancer experience shaped how you got to this point in your career? 100%. Yeah. Like I think the biggest thing that helped me was my qualifications and my experiences beforehand because there was an opportunity. I saw an opportunity to be able to use what I'd been able to do for other people and then apply it to myself.

And at a time where the medical world gives you no chance, i.e. signed off at the highest level and on a pension from Australia. Like I lost my job when I got diagnosed at the stage four. And so I woke up out of my surgery, literally two days later when I checked my phone or whenever it was, I went to my email and there was an email from my previous employee director telling me that I'd lost my job with immediate effect. So that was how I was treated. There are some power imbalances there.

There's so much change, there's so much loss, there's so much fear, there's so much uncertainty. If we make that relevant at the moment, what is there at the moment? You know, there's so much change, there's so much fear and there's so much uncertainty, right? So what do is you need to see an opportunity. Like, if you buy into that, like at the moment, it's crazy. Like, you can just be looking at so many different media formats and following different people and everyone's telling you about the latest stats about what's going to be happening. and like where do you get to it?

It's crippling, right? Particularly for our mental health. It's a similar circumstance, like placed in a circumstance where you have a chronic illness and a terminal diagnosis. Your world becomes that. And that's normal and that's part of the process. To be able to get through that, we know about the cycle of change, right? But it's not the same.

You know, there's an accelerated pace of the change. you don't have the luxury of saying contemplating change. It just doesn't exist. You're forced into change. And it's involuntary changes as well. You have to change because if you don't change, the consequences of death. I'm like it's, you know, I'm sorry to talk this way,

but to force into all these different circumstances. And to get out of that, you need to look at a number of different things, right? You need to look at what you need to. Then you need to look at who you are because identity is massively shifted. The way that you see yourself is a reflection of our other. people see yourself and all they see you as is that poor guy with cancer. How's that shape your world? Right. So really what I was screaming for back then was purpose. And the biggest thing that gave me purpose was, okay, I'm faced in the circumstances that I am at the moment. And I didn't

create this. This isn't my work where you're obviously familiar with it as well. So there to be a purpose. It can't be given to you. You need to create your purpose for yourself. It needs to be attainable over a longer term, so you need to be in pursuit of that. Plus, it can't be about yourself. It needs to have greater good for others. We're looking at defining purpose. It needs to look at those three points. And so if I place myself back in those circumstances, my purpose was, ah, light bulb, okay, I've gone into people's lives at this intimate level and been able to support them to get change. I thought I was fairly good at what I had done in the past. I got diagnosed as a 29-year-old man, but I was already aware for now seven years

that what I loved doing and what I was fascinated about was what I already had done. Then there was this, ah, I've got something where I can support others. So what I'm experiencing and the differences that are coming up and my challenges, I can be a source of support for others. So I just need to kind of work out

how to get through this myself. And my drive and my purpose can be, eventually this will support other people. How did that then direct your career? I started journaling in the very first journal entry. Pretty powerful moment, actually. I started journaling about why I was journaling and what this would be about. And it was about that one day I wanted to run cancer support programs.

Now, I've evolved from that. But there was this idea that maybe in the future I can use this as a basis to then place myself in a situation where, I'm able to collect these ideas and I'm going to be able to support others. You know, and I was writing about the opportunity and the purpose. And already there was a belief in there, right? There was a belief that I'm still going to be alive to look back at this, not I'm writing this so other people go through my journal and they're able to read it out.

There was like this belief coming through my earliest writing, which I was virtually conditioning myself, right? Conditioning myself to be able to say, you can do this in many ways. So then fast forward, you know, I just started writing a journal. No one's ever read it. It's an anonymous blog that's still on. online. No, it's no connection to me at all, but it was just a source that I needed to process and explore the depths of the depths of my darkness because it was a fairly

challenging time, not that I dipped into any state of mental illness, but there was many challenges and I would use writing as a way of exploring it because there was not many, there wasn't anyone that I could talk to at that level, even though I've got so many close friends and family around. I don't think anyone had the capacity and maybe this was my own mistake. my own oversight, but how I needed to express it, I needed to go to, like, it's hard to grapple with, right? It's very, very hard and challenging, I think, and it's hard to grapple with yourself, let alone for someone else. And so last year, I was working with a family in Nebraska. So sitting there next to, they've got a house on the lake. And I was sitting there and for some reason,

my first journal came out. And I started reading out this passage to them. So one of the other things about my work is that there's in social work we're told you know you've got to have you got to know the separation between the personal and the professional now one of these things that i've changed about that is i bring myself into my sessions i bring my experiences i bring my knowledge and i bring chad into my sessions and my clients and i go on a journey together so i've removed the power imbalance that exists so i share when a I'm not there saying Chad does this, so you need to do that. Not at all. It's done a very respectful, a respectful way, but also at the appropriate time. So we're sitting there

and I'm reading out this journal and the guy stopped me. It was him and his wife at the table. And he stopped me and said, just read that out again. And I said, okay. And I read out and I just burst it into tears because what I was writing about five years ago was that one day I would be able to run this program and that would be my dream. Then I'm in America, in the middle of Nebraska, at this house, doing the best work I've ever done in my life, taking it to this level where there's just absolute vulnerability and this man has just been crying in front of me for two days. But in a good way because it was boiling up and he had this, like in his throat it was stuck because he had this challenge that he was facing. He wasn't able to release it. And so we got there and we were

doing this work to release it over the first two days. And then it was, then he asked me this. And I cried. And I'm interested to see what your responses are because this is totally unacceptable in terms of social work practice to be able to do this. And I just sat there. And my immediate response was to cover up and look outside the lake and like pretend I will and try to stop my tears.

And for the past two days, I was encouraging, I was encouraging and supporting this man to be vulnerable, to be able to step and expose himself, right? Emotionally expose himself. And then the person who's guiding him to do that, that then has a response to something yet can't be vulnerable, that's not authentic and that's not consistent, right? So all this flashed in my mind in a matter of seconds. And I just looked at

them both and just bawled my eyes out. And I cried tears of joy. And it was a very moving and powerful moment. And they didn't come to touch me. They didn't come to say, are you okay? There was an unwritten law that existed in that session. It was okay to be vulnerable and it was okay to share. and the way that we are talking at the moment and what we have set up, these guidelines have been created for us to be able to go here. And as I said, I'm curious to what you think, because that is just not okay in typical social practice. Yeah, I understand that that's kind of what's been drilled into us to protect us.

My perspective and having worked with people who are either newly diagnosed with a disability or are in palliative care, the best thing that we can do is demonstrate that everyone's vulnerable. And if we're going into a situation suggesting that something's not going to affect us, I don't think we're doing a good job. We're not modeling appropriate behavior. So for you, you seem like you had quite a lot of responsibility in that space to keep it together. But at the same time, I think your responsibility professionally is to show that this affects everyone.

And that's okay. And it's about how you deal with those emotions. Were there times for you professionally where your own association with cancer experience and others has become unhelpful? Had there been times when the line has been crossed and it's actually not helpful for yourself and the person you're supporting? Cancer is a very small part of my life and it has been for a while, even though from the outside it may not seem that. You've gone through cancer three different times. you were given a terminal diagnosis and it came back on two different things like it must be part of your life to be honest i've done such an amount of work on myself that and there's a lot of other aspects and components to how i've always seen myself that it hasn't played such a role and cancer

is starting to like my work the cancer blueprint when i when i work with people with cancer it's a set program so people see me for five sessions and there's closure so i own that's the way i work but that's only, it's probably like 30% of my cases, 20% most of it's mental health. And I find that that's a better balance because there are times when it's, it is challenging and it brings up things, especially when people may come at different stages or it's not, people come to me and sometimes it's not to do my work, but just to have a chat and who I am, I want to reach out to people and I want to support them. But there's a lot of death as well. And so it can be very hard. And particularly, there's one thing that came to mind.

It's the need for different boundaries that are in place as well. And I said that there's no boundaries. They're also, so for instance, I've never looked at my own scans, right? So that was something that a lot of people with cancer would be able to relate to is that looking at scans is extremely anxiety-provoking. So during that first year, I used to get my scans and go to a window in the sun and try to look it up and look at these different things. But I had no idea what I was looking at, but all it would be,

It would be very, very anxiety provoking. And then you're in the appointment with a doctor, and they pull up the scans on a screen, and you just see all these white masses, and it's just like, this isn't, it's just horrible. So I ended up having, I've always had good relationships with my doctors, and it was just like, this isn't helpful for me. So I haven't seen a scan for now, five years or more.

But then this one family that I was working with sent me a scan. and it sent me a scan and it stayed with me for a while because it was fairly distressing what was there and I didn't know what I opened. I opened up a message and I saw it and I was like, oh wow, I need to get that. So I had to then start looking at different scans to replace that image which was in my mind because I realized that if I didn't get onto it very early, it would have had a capacity for then it to lead into possible rumination and for me to revisit that and then it would have probably spiraled. I'm sure I would have got it under control,

but I noticed that it activated something in me and it was not what I need. It sounds like that self-awareness is key in terms of making sure that things that come up for you aren't revisiting the past or things that you're not prepared to work through. I think the lens that we need to see our work through, I went and did a workshop over in the UK two years ago, three years ago.

I went back to my old workplace. And I did a workshop there. And it was the lens to see child protection and the lens to see some of this work in mental health is if you see the role as you work in trauma, then you need to rethink how you look at self-care. Because if self-care is just going to be something that we talk about and we do a workshop on every three months or every six months or once a year at a team workshop, but don't really understand the need to look after ourselves and what that means and the daily habits that need to be in place, the way you need to focus. And this is probably the expansion from me outside of social work. But mental health for me is about how you eat, how you sleep, how you move, how you play,

how you love, right? So that doesn't fit into the DSM5 and the 100 and however many categories we've got. The best way to be able to work with people is through an evidence. based integrative approach. And if that's the best way to get results for people, that then means that that's the best way to look after myself. So my habit on a daily basis, I probably do about two hours of self-care a day. And that's like I've got certain practices that are part of what I call non-negotiables.

And that's all about keeping me in the best place for me to show up, for the best Chad to be able to show up to go there and be able to support these people with the range of different challenges that are coming up. Because if something comes up for us, which is going to be activated, right? As you said before, we're human. If we don't pay attention to ourselves and we don't prioritize how well we're doing, we are then not giving our clients, our patients, the people that come to us, the level of support that they require.

Yeah, so it's kind of like an athlete and we need to keep ourselves conditioned in order to stay at top form. 100%. But that's going to look different for everyone. 100. That's, yes, of course it is, yes. Given that you work for yourself now, do you receive supervision? What does that look like? Yeah, I've sought out someone. I've been looking for someone for quite a while, and I was able to seek someone out last year. Yeah, so I've got someone that oversees how I'm doing and is there for me to be able to go through anything that's required.

So, yeah, I've got a relationship with someone that's very skilled. and knowledgeable and someone that I look up to and I'm inspired by for a number of different reasons and yeah we've got a professional relationship now it's been very it's been extremely helpful peer supervision as well I really enjoy meeting up with my old colleagues in the UK and then I've got several friends in Australia as well and you just get to that up you get to that different level where we're able to unpack different circumstances share what each other are going through and yeah be able to learn and grow. Is there something that happens in your workplace or anything that you do as part of your work that you feel like you can't talk to them about? No, I don't think so. Well, I'm not going to talk to

everyone about what goes on and I'd never share details, but there's certain times where I need to debrief, whether it's with my wife or some of my close friends, and they get it in some ways, and maybe it's more me just sort of unloading in some ways, but never going in, you know, to details, etc. It's very different working for yourself because there's no end point. Like I could do a section 47 over in the UK, which means that there's significant risk of harm

and you immediately need to respond and generally you're out there with the police as well. So that could be a very, very long day going into the night. You know, one comes to mind and we arrived at a place, You know, the towers in Redfern, a much bigger scale. This area in East London, we arrived, and a number of different police teams there, and we were first on scene as well to go out with the police, and there's a father with a knife to his two-year-old's throat and had him out the window.

Like, that's a very significant moment and very challenging time. Other circumstances with death threats, I wasn't allowed to go to work for a whole week because there was a gang that saw me responsible for different circumstances that have been completed on a high profile case over there. And then the nature of child protection work, like it's hard work. You're like, yes, you're making the decision, which is required and essential,

and you've got to have evidence to be able to support that in front of the court. But the power, again, like, you're separating. Like, I walked out of a hospital with three triplets. And that was the first lot of triplets in the borough that I've worked out to whoever ever come through. And like that's the impact, the ripple effect of that. You probably need to get into a different podcast to go into that and see that through a number of different lenses.

But the role that you are playing in someone's life is so significant. After one of those days, you can then switch off in some ways. And maybe you say, okay, I'm not going to be coming in tomorrow or, you know, that was a hard day. and I need to have an RDO. But when you work for yourself, and particularly what I'm doing, I've got clients all around the world in different time zones

and there's different expectations that are placed on me. So the way that I work is very different. I don't see people once a week. I have a very high touch point with certain families that I've worked with. That could be five times a week I'm speaking to people or more.

So then I've got my client work that I need to do. So that means I need to show up as best I can to give these people a service that they deserve. But then at the same time, I need to look at my own business development, right? So then I need to look at how am I ensuring that I'm putting out content, whether it's on social media,

that is at a high quality and that people will be able to connect with the availability of services. So I've developed a mobile application. So that as well is then another dimension of work. Like it doesn't stop. And I think that about private practice, like that is the most significant. difference is that like there are things that people just won't understand because it's not like it's very hard to then just say hey I'm not going to do anything because if you don't do anything nothing gets done and if you take away the safety net of having a wage there's just so much uncertainty so yeah I think there are things that people don't get but then there's you know other people outside of social work just people who run businesses and people that are interested in business would be able to get I find but that's yeah that's more

relevant for me as well I think and my focus is on as I said trying to develop scalable solutions so I want to have evidence-based work that can be scaled out so regardless of someone's location or regardless of someone's capacities we're able to provide them with evidence-based information to where they are and where they are is on their phones now that also contributes to different challenges but how can you deliver content to people and make that as good as it can be in a way that looks good is designed good Like, it's just, it's relentless. It is absolutely relentless. That's a challenge for sure.

It sounds like there is no typical day for you, but are you able to walk me through what a regular day might be like? Yeah, sure. How about I do today? So I start the day every day with non-negotiables. So half an hour of my time before I would turn on my phone. So I need to control my day before I let the day control me. Because if I get up and I go to my phone,

there's going to be emails, there's going to be WhatsApp, and there's going to be a whole heap of things, then it's going to derail me. And if my first principle is to show up as well as I can for the people that I'm supporting and are my clients, well, then I need to work on myself before I go to them. So I've got a friend called Benny Wallington, and he told me about this.

You need on ramps and off ramps for your day. I love that. So rather than a morning routine and then a night routine, I think of my day like an on ramp, so I need to get on my ramp, and that is my, I do set breathing program. So I do breathing every day and then I'll go to my journal. And then after that, it's probably about half an hour.

It could be more. I'll then turn on my phone. So I'll know if I've had a late night. So tomorrow morning I've got sessions starting at 4.30 a.m. So tonight I'm mindful that I need to get to bed at a decent hour. I'm not going to get my sleep. The following night I have a session going to 1 a.m. So it's very long days if I don't control it.

So I need to ensure that I get my sleep. So tonight I'm going to be stopping. work quite early because where I am with my current time going, it's six coming up to 6pm and it's only 9 a.m. in Sydney. People that I support in Europe and the UK, so they're five hours ahead of me. So I need to get up and see if I've got anything scheduled with them and I'll know in advance what I'm doing. I won't have more than say five things scheduled in a day or it'll just be too much. So I get up in Europe is five hours ahead or London's five hours ahead. I get up on the same time owners Eastern Standard Time. So then I'm on the same time as America. And so during the day,

it's when I do my work for my mobile application, which is called OnTracker. So that's when I'm doing my business development, reaching out to different hospitals and academics and certain companies that I'm having ongoing negotiations with. And then I'll have some time for myself during the day. And then I will be ready for Australia to wake up around my 3pm, which is about 6am. and then anywhere from four to five onwards, then Australia is awake, and that's when I need to do some more work. And it could go on until 10 or 11 at night. So yeah, they're very, very long days.

So within that, I need to ensure that I've got my own habits in place, as I said before. Plus, I want to have a loving, healthy marriage as well, so I need to prioritise my wife within that. And, you know, there's some lasting vulnerability from my health where I'm virtually a slave to these habits. but they keep me in a place where I'm able to continuously show up as well as I can. That makes sense, yeah? So that's my day.

What is the thing that you love most about what you do? I know it's really hard because you're clearly quite passionate about it, but what stands out? The thing I love the most about what I do. I love seeing change. I see like what we spoke about before. Like there's many people that come to me. I see a lot of men, which was interesting for me because I always think.

thought that, well, throughout my time working in government, there's a lot of women for grief and loss, a lot of single moms because the dads had gone, a lot of domestic violence, so you're working with these amazing women that have been abused. And I thought that there was a real strength of mine was to be able to connect on a therapeutic level with women. And after doing this work, a lot of men come to me, had a lot of drug issues. So cocaine, massive in Sydney, as you know, different changes that are going on. So I see a lot of these guys and they'll come to me

and they probably wouldn't have had a weekend off cocaine in probably seven, nine, 13 years. It's just what they do. And we start looking at, you know, as I said, as similar, they start contemplating by the time they reach out to me, they probably tried a number of different times. But I love it then.

And we get to a period of time where we get through our work and, you know, still get messages now. Man, you saved my life. You don't know how happy I am. You know, I'm at my daughter's netball game at the moment. Bro, I'm dead. He's down the beach at the moment.

Thank you. Like, I don't need to thank you. That's nice. But what I love is people being able to connect with the work that I do and people being able to say, ah, I can do this as well. And then they make changes. And then they go on and have these meaningful relationships. And I think the biggest thing that I think occurs is that I know myself as a young man,

particularly in terms of the challenges I had with my health. I needed to leverage off other people's belief. And I had very strong women around me. I had my wife and my mom and they believed in me. And particularly when I was in the family court of Australia working. And for a social worker, that was like, that was amazing. And I felt that that was what I wanted to do. And I'd walk through a city with this suit on and no one knew that I had cancer.

And I felt important. And it was really what was needed back then. And then to go and start a business after I had that stability and I'd had time away from work. And then I had this good opportunity. It was like, why are you doing this? like don't leave, you know, you've got this, you're going to, you know, who's going to pay for this type of service? And a lot of these different challenges that came up, which are very similar, as I said before, for other people who would get it when they go and start something.

But I didn't have belief and I had to leverage off other people's belief. And a lot of these young men that come to me don't believe in themselves. And so I think they can leverage off my belief to then be able to see what I can see in them, then they're capable of kind of, with the appropriate support and different changes. and some strategies that probably are a little bit unorthodox at times, they're able to get these changes. And then that's my highlight. It's not about me.

I love seeing people be able to connect and change. It sounds as though having that validation, though, is really powerful for you in context of your own self-doubt going into it. 100%. Yeah. And having gone into private practice, I'm just interested in terms of how did you expect it to be? starting your own business and developing projects and resources,

is it what you expected it was going to be? It's a good question. I don't think I could have been prepared for this. I think the only thing that prepared me for this was going through years of chemotherapy and years of cancer treatment because it's really hard. It's relentless. If I didn't love it, it wouldn't be possible to do

because it takes so much of you. and I'm very fortunate that it's very hard to separate. Like one of the biggest things that I need to do is switch off because I'm fascinated about it. I love it. I love the aspect of trying to work with people. I love the aspect of developing new ideas to be able to connect with them.

I love the preparation in being able to say, oh, this is how I'm going to implement, and this is how I'm going to go about this strategy. And then I love the other aspect that I'm building as well. There's no way I could have been prepared because it's just, It's so consuming. And it sounds like it's snowballed and developed.

Yeah, for sure, definitely. But I still see that it's, I'm very proud of some of my achievement, 100%. I think some of that comes back to some of those vulnerabilities that I faced early on as well, as I mentioned you before when really then trying to be in a situation where I had information and results that I was able to say, wow, I'm actually, you know, I'm able to make an impact here with people and they're able to see these changes and I'm able to document and I'm able to use tools to validate it, et cetera. But then there was, as I said before, but why are you here? Like, why are you trying to do this? What's the catch? And it's like, I'm just literally trying to

provide at that time, it was like free services to people to be able to help them and just faced with all this resistance. So I think a lot of what I've had to do is just build myself up and build my own confidence and belief. And I think that comes back to, you know, that comes back to me as a social worker as well. And as I mentioned before, that I don't think it's valued. And as I said before, people just think, oh, you've done a special of social work. Oh, that's great. Because they just don't get it. Have there been any significant changes that you've seen in social work over the last, say, five, ten years? It's interesting. I was in the UK recently and I was speaking to some of my friends over there. And some of the work they're doing is amazing. Literally amazing. One in particular,

they're really like sensory based work. And I just, it's so aligned with my thinking about where I am now and the way they're supporting carers to then support the young people that are in care to regulate through different strategies. It's, that's, like, that inspired me.

And I was like, wow, I want to learn that. Like, and that, I was so happy to see that it was being driven down, like, that aspect of it. So, and I'm sure there's so much good work that is done as well. Like, I'm not trying to take away from that. and so many skilled professionals, et cetera. I just think there needs to be additional support. And where do you see social work over the next five, ten years?

Where do you see our profession making an impact? I would like to see more people like Brunay. I would like to see more people out there who are able to provide exposure to good social work practice. and I would like social work to become and be something which is on par with psychology and which has some substance for people. I want it to be given the place that it deserves. And is there any other profession other than social work?

You mentioned you started in education, but if you, for some reason, decided to steer away from social work further down in your career, where do you think that would take you? I'm very committed to what I'm working. on at the moment, which is this digital platform. So, yeah, it may seem to be, I don't know how to be perceived and I'd love to get your thoughts, but one of my main passions is medicinal cannabis. So I see a real responsibility of the users of medicinal cannabis. We can look at the top five users of cannabis. It's people with pain, people with anxiety, seizure disorders, cancer, and

mental illnesses and PTSD as well, veterans. And I think if we have a look at that list, there's a number of different themes which are overlapping is that they've got unmet emotional psychological and social needs and I believe that they've been let down by traditional healthcare so there's a real responsibility to be able to provide them support and I think it's also about trying to as I said before revolutionise mental health support and the way that we're able to support people and move away just from talking that I really be able to integrate different ways of supporting people to be able to feel better and feel their best and that is through creative partnerships with an innovative industry, like we have a look at the cannabis industry,

and there's a massive potential for this to be such a huge global industry. And I think the profit and a revenue that's created should then be redistributed to then be able to provide mental health support. So that's my main passion about where I'm moving in the future and what my current focus is. I think those partnerships are key because that's just not happening and that's the main barrier. So as you're saying, there is a drive to revolutionise health care and make it less traditional in many ways and enable people's access to treatments that might be beneficial to them. Yeah. That's where I am at the moment.

And that's where if we have another check-in in the future, I think that's where I will be. And then, yeah, other components. It's just a continual expansion. If I'm still in the same area and interest that I am now, then I'm not growing. I'm not exposing myself to different content and information. I'm not learning. Is there any form of social work that doesn't interest you at all, any part of the profession? Not particularly no.

Like I think there's great options for people, really, really great options. And as I said, I'm not where I am today if I didn't start where I was. So I think it's just, as you mentioned before, I think it's about the different pathways that are available and knowing that there's different options for people that are available out there. Like if we are looking at attracting young guys or girls into the profession and seeing that there's different ways that they can go about it all, you know, being part of something.

I want to expand the way that my work is unfolding and the delivery of digital services and be able to provide different options but have those foundational skills in social work. So people, you know, have the option, oh, I can go into palliative care, I can go into healthcare, I can go into the tech world. Like, I think that opens up the possibility of, you know,

I just think that's a wonderful pathway. for people and there's so many different benefits that are associated with it. It's not going to be for everyone, of course, but I want that to be a pathway and I have a vision of having a team of people or social workers. They're not just saying that either, but want to be attracting social work to then give it what is required, I think, and to be able to bring it up to a standard continuously, like yourself and like many different. There's another good podcast that one of my friends is involved in the,

UK and I love that people are out there talking about it and being out of, you know, working to improve the standard of it. Yeah, it inspires me. Yeah, I'm interested in hearing a little bit about some of the projects you're working on. I know there's the cancer blueprint, there's on track as you mentioned. Can you tell me a little bit more about those? Yeah, of course. So the cancer blueprint runs off a model that I created. So back in 2014, I made a call to the New South Wales Cancer Council and I was looking at the available support that would be available for my mum. They offered two sections of counselling outside of the family home. My dad wasn't involved.

I wasn't involved. And as I said before, it was outside of the family home. I went on the call. I said, well, about me, what is available? And they said, well, because you've got a terminal diagnosis and it's longstanding treatment, there's no available options. I thought that that was wrong. I couldn't believe that someone in my circumstance, and not that I required it,

but others who probably needed more support, there wasn't anything available. Now, that's changed a little bit, so it's six years on. But I immediately hung up the phone and started writing like a 10,000-word thesis and took it to Sydney University, and that's where I first got validated. So since then, the model has expanded out,

and it's based on, there's a number of different ideas that I think are crucial to people with cancer, and I think they need to transition from this position at the start about where they are to what their future is going to look like, and then we need to work through different components of that. As I mentioned before, you need to touch on their identity, then you need to look at different habits.

And it's also how you can use evidence-based integrative strategies as well to give them the best chance of living better for longer. So that's what the cancer blueprint is about. My other work is in mental health. There's a similar methodology with some crossover between the way that I would work with someone with cancer and someone who's coming to me for depression or someone coming to me for anxiety or addiction. Obviously, differences in how I need to drill into that.

those different points, but, you know, I'm going to connect it to some values. I'm going to have an indication of how to spend the time and their influences. I'm going to get an understanding about how they see themselves and their failures, their successes, very much a strengths-based practice that I have within all my work as well. All that work, so whether it's in mental health or cancer, has then fueled my understanding and learning about how I can then provide digital content. So with the Indy onTracker app, there is a methodology where we provide a starting point, for people to be able to access this information wherever and wherever they are at no cost.

So really what I'm fascinated about is trying to provide people with a resource. And let me tell you why, I was working with a young guy and he attempted suicide. So he was a high suicide risk when I started working with him. And I was working with him in conjunction with a psychiatrist. So a lot of the work that I do in mental health has involvement of a psychiatrist as well. So I think that's the way we need to work. Still in private practice. So we know working together is just essential in government.

But when I made the jump of private, if I've got someone that I'm supporting with cancer and there's an exercise, like say someone's, you know, whatever sort of profession is there, it's because everyone's private, no one wants to share information. The person that doesn't get any value out of that is decline,

and I see that as wrong. And I want to be out. Like, it's just fundamental to us, right? Like if we're working on a case, who else is involved and how do we work together? Like that's just being part of how I, work. So part of this method that I'm developing is that I want to provide a resource for people. And that links back to this time with this young guy, right? So I was working with this young guy.

Tried to attempt suicide. Fortunately, he wasn't successful. And when we had a first session after that, he said, I was just looking at that folder. So throughout the time he was working with me, he was taking notes, et cetera. And he's like, if I just had a way that I could listen to it, because I just couldn't open that page. And there was significant depression that's going on here. and it was just one of those light bulb moments that I needed to be able to give people a resource because I'm able to be in people's lives and I'm able to instruct them and guide them

with different practices, whether it's a visualization, whether it's a meditation, whether it's breathing exercises, whether it's just how we use space, right? We're able to use touch in different ways. Like the different way that we're able to get and connect to these people

to then help move them on. If, when I'm not there, when I'm not there in person, particularly when I digitalized my work, particularly when I started delivering work through a video conference as well, there was a major gap in how I was seeing the potential for me to do my work. And it was evident that I needed another tool. And I also needed a way to be able to promote accountability, promote self-monitoring,

and promote, okay, this is what I need to get up and do every day. So there's like post-its. And so all this has been formalized into this digital application, which has gone on tracker. But first and foremost, it's a resource. So we want people to be able to look at it, have suggested tasks that they're able to complete. We've been able to look at the research that's available for how long people can concentrate,

what sort of content needs to be available and the format of that as well. So you need to give information and then have a task. And that all then needs to link to different icons. So it's all about the experience of them within the app. But really where I want to get to is there's a scaling exercise, for instance, right? So you want people to be able to say, how am I feeling to that? Anxiety is high. It's an aid.

At that moment in time, it's going to be hard for them at times to know what they can do and what they can deploy to be able to combat that anxiety or to be able to accept that anxiety, right? So there's different scales as well inside the app. So anxiety is one. We'll look at nine different measures as well. So the way that this can be a resource for people is say they tap an eight,

they then get suggested that they then complete a exercise which is inside the app. Be able to then redirect the user, so the person, to an exercise that they complete, wherever and wherever they are. So they're already familiar with the voice. They've already seen some of the content as well. They then plug in their headphones, their pods,

or they don't need that, and they can just listen to it. There's different exercises that they can choose from at the time. Say it's a five-minute or a 10-second exercise where they're instructed throughout this process. Then after it, even if we get that user, if we get that person to then indicate that their anxieties at a six, right?

That is then meaning that they're more capable of controlling this from spiked. out of control, but maybe we get them to like a three or a four, that person has then got a very valuable tool in how they can then go, oh, next time that comes up, I know what I can do. Right. So that's just one example of how I think it can be so important for people out there. The other one would be, you know, different suggestions and ideas for people when they're not having a good day and then linking that to existing services as well.

So someone's scoring very low in mood or it's consistent low mood. We then have a responsibility to act. I see that there's a duty of care to act for that individual. So then it will be about connecting that person to different existing services in the community. So really providing a very valuable tool within the ecosystem to be able to redirect them to prevent different mental health, well, different concerns or risks from reoccurring or escalating. And to what extent is that? interactive, what do you see of what they put in?

So there's obviously like extreme privacy around it. So I can't see anything or we can have a look at as different data and trends. Yeah. So this isn't something that I will be able to look over. It's, you know, I've got a team that works with me to be able to ensure that we adhere to privacy practices around the world. So, yeah, my involvement in saying, oh, I'm going to be able to have a look at what Gary or Armour to doing, that's, yeah, that's not possible. We have practices in place to be able

to protect the privacy of people because we obviously understand that people are going to be journaling and they're going to be putting this very private information inside the app and we need to have 100% legitimacy and we need to be super, you know, cautious about how we utilize that information. Of course. If obviously it's a very private app and things that people are putting into it are very private, how do you then maintain? that responsibility and that duty of care, are you then reliant on them putting something into the system in a way that alerts you to the fact

that they're scoring quite low on some of these measures? Yes. So there's input that's required. So it tracks different medication, right? So it tracks people sleep. So when people get up in the morning, the best way that they can use it is to tick, you know, it's one simple tap to indicate how they slept. So all this body of knowledge is then going to be collated.

through an algorithm to then be able to provide personalized care recommendations. So there's a number of different psychological and physiological data points that we're collecting to then build up a profile of this user that then we can ensure that we can tailor different content and we can support as best as possible. But we wouldn't we would be giving the person the option. So there's inbuilt code that we've got inside of the app where if someone, as I said before, is indicating that they are scoring low. so it's all self-scoring as well,

that then they will then get suggestions through a pop-up that comes up where they could be referred to. And it's just providing that touch point, as I said before, and this is all learning as well. So like in the development of this, I didn't see this straight away.

It wasn't, after I've developed it, I'm like, okay, now we have a responsibility how we can support people who are utilizing it for this. At the other end of the spectrum, we want to be promoting good health and we want to be promoting stability,

so then it's about supporting people like to stay on track. So that's the whole thing like how do we support people to stay on track? But if they get off track, how do we have a responsibility to ensure that we can mitigate risk? I'm curious to see how these health problems, the current health crisis with COVID-19, might have some effect on what you're seeing, whether it's uptake of the app or people reaching out. What effect do you think this is having on people's physical and emotional well-being? Yeah, so I think what we've got is complete uncertainty. So as we know, with uncertainty leads to anxiety, leads to fear, leads to increased stress,

whether it's financial stress, whether it's just stress of being in a situation with either loved ones or, you know, different circumstances that are going on. I think that there's enormous potential, particularly with. the wider global economics that are at play and how much debt has been accumulated and what that impact is going to be. It's not my lane, so I'm not going to comment too much, but I just see that there's going to probably be some challenging times. That said, I also see that there's a wonderful opportunity here for purpose, a wonderful opportunity to connect. I see that within quarantine, there's a time for gratitude. There's a time for those, you know, positive emotions to really be at play

Maybe you've got a bit more time to cook. Maybe you're not spending as much money, so there are financial stresses that you've reduced. Maybe you've got more time to focus on your sexual health. Maybe there's more time to then think, okay, while I know at the moment the gyms are closed, what sort of routines can I implement for home-based exercise to ensure that I'm keeping myself physically healthy throughout this period of time? Because we're looking at mental health, what we need to look at first and foremost is how active people are and how much they're, you know, using their body,

how much the blood is moving throughout their system and how much we're able to release some of those chemicals inside of their body and exercise is clearly one of the best ways to be able to do that. So I think there's enormous potential. While there's challenges, I think there's enormous potential out there for people to be able to take something from this,

which can have a very positive and lasting impact for when normality returns. What are your thoughts? How do you say it? I see a lot of love. a lot of generosity, a lot of people coming together and a lot of patience, which probably shouldn't have, but has surprised me. Just with complete strangers, with friends, with family, there are obviously outliers who will always catastrophes and feel as though they have no

control over the situation. But there are so many people who are banding together and, you know, even though there is so much uncertainty, just buckling down and saying this is what we can control. I've got some wonderful friends who have started like a lecture series every week where they're incredibly intellectual people with amazing experience and skills. And so each week, one person will talk about something that they either work in or they're passionate about. And I just think it's a wonderful way to bring together people that might not otherwise spend much time together. I'm 100%. I've noticed so many the time to connect with family or different friends. I've had more engaging conversations since this has all started while I've been in isolation

than recently before that. So definitely elements of this that I want to continue in how we live afterwards. That's for sure. We can learn a lot. Yes. Where can people go if they want to learn a bit more about your work or about these areas of social work? Yes. So there's my consulting and counselling work where you can find information and you can connect with me at cwcounseling.com.com.

You can then reach out to me on Instagram under the handle of Chad Walkerton. And then on Facebook as well, LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. And then you can look at OnTracker through www.onTracker.com. And you can type in OnTracker at the moment into. either to play or Apple store and you'll get a version beta testing version of that we haven't launched the and the capacities that i just made reference to probably 10 minutes ago about the responsibility that we have that's not inside the app as yet so we've got a test environment to

ensure that when we release code and so what you notice on your phone um when we push these changes through is a much improved application so that was our first version that was launched it's still has had some very good early feedback, which is very promising and very positive, but there's going to be a massive overhaul in the next month where it really will step up to be a global, like a leading global platform with 16 of the 16 recommendations from a study at Monash University that was completed into mental health apps. So by the time we launch this new version, we will have all 16 recommendations built inside the app, and that links back to the responsibility and the place to be able to redirect people throughout the application.

Probably didn't get it right from the beginning, but I don't know if you can get it right. I think you've got to come into this very realistic that you produce something and then you reiterate and you get better and you get the assistance and the support of the community to help indicate. And I think overwhelmingly people have been so kind with their time and their feedback to say, hey, have you considered this? hey, what about this? I've noticed that you do this. Why don't you do that? And it's just been

amazing to be able to see to support and the way people have really got behind us during this early stage to try to make it better for others. So yeah, I see, I'm hopeful that there's a, there's a tide that's turning and that tide is like you spoke about love and compassion and these beautiful positive emotions that exist. And that's what I'm all about. Do you have a potential or an estimated launch date for those changes to be put into the Yeah, I would say, I would say four weeks, I'd say, yeah, I'd say six weeks, because I know that things can just take a little bit more time and we want to, like the process of getting all these bugs out is crazy. But we've already implemented two of the main screens. We've already got the designs done and there's people working on the code as we speak.

So, yeah, I would say, I get too excited and I'll say it's going to be ready here and then there's different changes. So let's just say, yeah, six weeks and on tracker will be a really, really valuable resource for people that are out there to be able to get their clients or the people that they support. And it's a free platform that you can set your patients up to be able to support them to self-monitor and they can come back and give very accurate and easy to access information about the symptoms. And then also the tasks that they've been working on and then also the different goals. So, you know, really trying to look at myself, you know, I have created it for myself as well. They'd be able to say, okay, so if I'm working with someone, create these icons, then it's a very easy way of creating a care plan for people. But it's, you know, cool application.

So, yeah, just trying to improve that compliance as well. But really seeing it as a tool for social workers, psychologists, anyone out there to be able to say, oh, wow, there's a free resource that you can use and it's got some meditations and breathing exercise, mental health support, keep you on track with your goals. It'll connect with your Fitbit or Apple Watch. And it's all for free and it'll always be for free. So, yeah, that's my plan.

If you're building it for others and you're building it for users to be able to improve their health care, to improve their mental health, to get more accurate reporting, to enable doctors to have accurate information so they can intervene earlier, to be able to give this resource where people can access it. So hopefully we can reduce some of the challenges that occur in society because of mental illnesses. If we can do that, that's what we need to focus on. So we need to listen to people and learn from them for how we can make it better. And wouldn't it be wonderful if it evolves over time and become something that people can apply to all other areas. And it's something that

isn't even what you imagined it would be purposed for. But that's fantastic because it's specifically tailored to someone and someone's getting something out of it. 100%. So the way it's going to function is similar to a Facebook feed. or similar to your Google feed, how it changes and is personalized to you. So that's what I was meaning before, is that the content and the way that you're on tracker is going to work is going to look different to how you're,

to a friend or a partner or to someone else is going to look. And that's where we need to go to your private and your personalized buddy to keep you on track. And there's a huge interest of mind in going into, like the addiction space and looking at how you can intervene with cravings, etc. by getting different measurements. If we can have a way which comes from their phone and then to be able to give them different instructions

or just normalize what they're experiencing for them and label it and support them to label it, then give them somewhere to go so they can kind of resist that urge and then they can have distance from that urge, like that's, for me, that's when it's, I don't know whether that's going to be something that a lot of people need or want,

but I know that there's people out there that require that because these urges are just too hard to resist. And there's no way. So if we're a seamless transition where it's like, hey, it seems like you're having an urge at the moment. Have you considered A, B or C? Where you've just got a really effective way of being able to keep people on track.

So that's a lot of opportunity for where it goes. It just depends on how well we can keep on moving forward. Is there anything else before we wrap up that you'd like to say to potential social workers or people wanting a bit of a change in terms of what you do or any words of advice? Yeah, I would say that, like I like to say that anything's possible. I think what you're going to learn through social work is some amazing foundations in how to interact with others, how to understand others, how to communicate, how to have empathy, how to understand.

how to get an understanding about the different power dynamics that exist in society. All of those are going to prepare you to be a really good human, first and foremost. If you're a good person, the possibilities are endless. It's an amazing platform, whether it's straight out of school or whether coming back to it. There's a real potential, I think, and real opportunity for people to do some really, really good work. So, yeah, I'd really recommend it to others. and then as a pathway, I wouldn't rush into private practice. I don't think that's the way to go.

To anyone who's aspiring to go, okay, I'm going to do this and then set up a global business as well. You need to do it to hard yards. You need to work in government or you need to work in NGOs. You need to be able to work to be able to understand what you're doing and to learn the trade and to learn the skill so that then you're able to then go out and use those skills when you've mastered it to then be able to go out make an impact but until then you need the support of a team you need a very good manager that's

overseeing you you need to seek out supervision you need to have good people that are around you then outside of that the addition that I bring into it is you need to not just focus on self-care but you've got to see what you're doing as a trauma role and so what you've got to do is really go in hard on yourself and that means that doesn't mean go hard and like what I mean is then like applying principles of health. And what I would recommend is that there's four foundations to health and that would be sleep, nutrition, meditation and exercise. And I think that is the foundation just to maintain mental health.

And a very good way of looking at it would be your mental health hygiene. So what is your score and how you're scoring about how much hygiene you need to put into yourself in different times? So if you're fresh out of university and you're going to a job and it's very challenging day is what we've mentioned with some of the examples before, your high school. hygiene needs to improve and what is that going to look like for you as I said like I'm talking about these four foundations but it may be art for you it may be talking to you family or a loved one it may be cooking it may be going for a walk like it doesn't need to be these things but

you've got to find out for yourself what are these things that is going to enable you to show up your best because if you don't shop your best it's not fair for what you're providing to others that would be my words thank you it's been such a wonderful time I'm so grateful that you could your time to this podcast and just be so open about your experience and the incredibly important and innovative work that you're completing at the moment. Thank you. You can come across as very knowledgeable and you've got a lovely, lovely tone as well. So please continue doing the work that you do and continue putting this out because it's

essential and it's required. And I think someone like you is exactly the person that's required to be able to have these conversations at a level which is going to connect with people and raise that standard of social to work. So thank you for this wonderful opportunity and thank you for what you're doing for the profession and what you're going to be able to do for others and how they can look up to you to aspire to be like you. So well done and thank you very much. You're very kind. Thank you so much. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Chad, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook,

and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlightpodcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. And finally, a quick thank you to anchor.fm for hosting this podcast. Next episode's guest is Barbara, who came to the profession later in life, having been a teacher initially, and then spent most of her social work career in hospital settings. We talk about her unique experiences in respiratory medicine, oncology, and then a private hospital setting, where she was the sole social worker in a very busy inner city facility.

I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified whenever this next episode is available. See you next time.