Social Work Spotlight - Episode 41: Dalia

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

In this episode, I speak with Dalia, who has held diverse roles across both non-government and government sectors in all different capacities. Currently, Dalia is a Work Integrated Learning Officer at the University of NSW, identifying and assisting with student placements. She describes it as a privilege to be in these positions, working alongside people with the same values and commitment to equity and social justice, and to witness the resilience and strengths of those she has supported along the way. Dalia hopes her contribution has made a difference in some way and loves the broadness that social work offers.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Making the Most of Field Education (Cleak & Wilson) - https://au.cengage.com/c/isbn/9780170417006/How To Grow Your Social Worker - https://www.arts.unsw.edu.au/sites/default/files/documents/How%20_to_Grow_a_Social_Worker.pdfTrapeze program, The Sydney Children’s Hospital Network - https://www.schn.health.nsw.gov.au/find-a-service/health-medical-services/trapezeThis episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Gt73CMSOak7PI8DWRIlzZXuTsKsBGv5gmSGMRjT9_JI/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode. I'm your host, Yasamine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Dahlia. Dahlia graduated in 2005 and has been fortunate to have held roles across both non-government and government sectors in all different capacities, working alongside people with the same values and commitment to equality and social justice. Dalia has been proud to witness the resilience and strength of those she is supported along the way. She hopes her contribution has made a difference in some way and loves the broadness that social work offers. Currently, Dalia is a work-integrated learning officer at the University of New South Wales, identifying and assisting with student placements.

Thank you so much, Dalia, for coming onto the podcast. Wonderful to have a chat with you about your work so far. No problem. Thanks so much for inviting me. Can I ask firstly when you started social work and what drew you to the profession? So my mum is actually a careers advisor. So when I finished school, I went to Kalara High, she took me to UNSW to sit in a social work lecture to hear what was about.

But of course, in those times, you don't listen to your mum. And I decided to go where my friends were going, and I went to Macquarie uni, which was Club Mac at the time. I don't know if it's still called that. And I did a Bachelor of Social Science majoring in criminology. So I was really interested in why people committed crime, gender criminology, different reasons of why women would commit crime to the motivation of men. And then in my second year at Macquarie,

I applied for a scholarship to study in Manchester. So they gave 5,000 to pay for airfares and contribute towards accommodation. And I was able to continue my degree there for a year. So I did a year at Manchester Metropolitan. in uni, which was an amazing student life experience. I'm still friends with people that I knew then who have moved over here. And some of them are actually in relationships with people I grew up with. So it's just funny how my decision to go over there has meant that they're now married to

friends of mine that I went to school with. So just those things, how life just kind of evolves. Yeah. But also was able to travel and do those things. But when I came back, you know, my mom did a bit of a, I told you so. what I had done wasn't really a professional degree, even though I have no regrets because I never would have taken that path of doing, well, I ended up doing two years overseas.

And I wouldn't have had that opportunity if I had only done a social weight degree at that time because you can do exchange programs, but only for like a term, whereas I was able to go for a lot longer for two years, which was an amazing time instead of the university there and be part of that culture. So it's a life that I have no regrets. And my mom ended up linking me into, at that time, it doesn't exist anymore. It was a two-year intensive Bachelor of Social Work if you had done social sciences before. So at that time that was offered at Australian Catholic Union.

And we were the first group and there were only 12 of us. So we were very small. And then I graduated in 2005 and my first job was in the Northern Beaches at the Burdican Association, which worked with youth homelessness. And also, I guess they had their own in-house foster care program working with young people 12 to 18. It was funded by docs at the time. Yeah, so that was the start of where I started in social work

and then continued on to other areas like centre care. Back then was a JPEC program, so working with young people at risk of missing out in education and employment. So reducing those barriers and then went on. to Centrelink for five years. And I will say, I know Sondelink doesn't have the best reputation, but I will say that was the highlight of where I enjoyed working the most, just dealing with most vulnerable people and working in different areas.

So you could be out at Bankstown, you could be at Redfern, you could be at Darlinghurst, and dealing with all the different demographics of those communities and supporting people of all different backgrounds, so whether it was young people who are unreasonable to live in high, whether it was women leaving domestic violence and helping them to help them. to apply for a crisis payment or finding accommodation.

To then also working rurally, so I worked with Sunderlandk out in the Aboriginal communities. So I stayed in Alice Springs and we would fly out in the small plains and stay in the communities for a week at a time and actually get to really experience. I guess it was really third-built conditions out there and just seeing the reality of the Aboriginal population

and just the disadvantage that they experience, but also how they could assist them to get back on payments. So that might be that only one person that family's got an income because people just drop off and just helping them get back under payments. But also, I guess, helping them with linking back into education, which is hard in those communities because there's no jobs for them. So they drop out in year nine. But seeing all that and being privy to all that was so important

because I guess I grew up in the bubble of Sydney where we don't know all this. So having the opportunity to go out. to those areas was really important for my understanding of the history and the current impacts that we still have. Yeah, so then Children's Hospital for a couple of years. And that was working in a program called Trapeze. So they work across the whole of New South Wales as part of Children's Hospital at Ramick and Westmeath, and the whole idea is to support young people with their transition from pediatrics to adult, but also help them to make decisions where possible about their own health needs.

So they've gone from the parents making the decisions to now developing that autonomy to making decisions about their own health and treatment and understanding their diagnosis, but also realizing the impact it has had on their whole life, so not just their health, but their education, the making of friends. Even one of the things that stood out was children with allergies and that when we go out and we go to a restaurant, we take that all for granted because it's a normal social thing that we do. but if there's people who have severe allergies, they can't actually go and eat out of the restaurant

or a cafe because of the risks involved. So they can get excluded. So all those things, I suppose I hadn't really had to think about until I was confronted with that and actually recognised the importance of our role in supporting people navigating through that in their life. And then in 2016, I started at UNSW working in field education, supporting students with placements. But I've always, since I start in 2005, I was taking students every year.

So I've always loved as part of my career to support students. And I always remembered what my experience was like on placement. So I really wanted to ensure that students would have a good opportunity, opportunities to learn and feel respected and we're able to maximise their experience. So I feel like I take that with me into the role now to try and encourage field educators to also make up their goal and students to voice that, that it's an important learning for them. That sounds incredible and so incredibly diverse as well. Yeah.

I think it's been you're maybe the third person who I've had on the podcast who has worked in Alice and worked in those remote communities and worked with Centrelink specifically. And it just sounds as though there are so many opportunities available to people, not just within Centrelink or the Department of Human Services, but there are a lot of great learning opportunities to go out and work with those sorts of communities. And I was talking to Astrid in episode eight. She worked for Centrelink for most of her working career. And I know you kind of prefaced this by saying,

I didn't know that I'd enjoy working for Centrelink or people don't think it's a great place to work. But she just gave this incredible story of how it helped her develop as a person, not just as a professional, and how many amazing opportunities came out of that. She was talking about being deployed down to the bushfires in Victoria when that was happening. So there were so many incredible things that were coming out of Centrelink and the government workers around that in terms of growing as a person as a professional. Yes, lots of diversity in the role.

And we were helping with bushfires remotely. So helping with people who were impacted by that. But there were people as well who were sent out to those areas. So there's lots of diversity in the role and lots of different opportunities. So when I was able to apply for other jobs from there, I was able to draw on a lot of different experiences. Also went to Darwin as well for six weeks and did some work out there too as part of Sondland. So I've been able to go places I had never gone before and just to work in different teams

that are run very differently to how things are run here, but also to see the limitation of services and resources in those areas and how people work together to still try and support people. in hardship and the hardship is probably way more severe over there and i guess now what's to happen to is that a lot of the work and the social role that something was to provide a national service so by sometimes you can be connected to someone in a rural community that you've never been to but i guess if you've already had the opportunity to go out and work in those communities you might have a better understanding the opportunities for them is a lot more limited so if they're on a job seeker payment they're linked in with an employment agency that flies in once a month,

they're not going to always make their appointments because there's no jobs for them to apply for. But if people aren't aware of that, they put this expectation on them, oh, okay, well, how can you have been applying for jobs? Well, there's no jobs there. But I guess people need to know that instead of just having the standard questions that they would ask people who live in the cities. It's a very different experience.

Yeah. Is the Trapeze program still running? That's still running. Yes. So they support 16 to 24, doing home visits as well. But a lot of it was also going to the outpatients at Westmead and Ramwick, but you're there to support these people long term. But really interesting, just the importance for people of where they were to go for their hospitals.

So they had really good quality care at Ramick and Westmead. And then when they are discharged into an adult hospital, just the fear of going somewhere new, but also one is, to ensure that where they live doesn't compromise the quality of their health service. And so that was a big thing for people. They would actually move or rent somewhere else if they were linked in an area where they did feel confident with the hospital that was located to them. So those things were really interesting issues that people would raise,

big discharges the quality of healthcare. The children's hospital was always exemplary. And just the quality of our healthcare system is pretty incredible. I imagine it was a multidisciplinary team as well. Yes, yeah, but sometimes with a child that has lots of chronic conditions, sometimes it was hard for families, especially with language barriers, to navigate all the different teams. So part of that role as well was to ensure that they understood all the different roles

of all the different teams. It might be neurology, it might be diabetes, it might be that also the child has intellectual disability, so you've got that component as well, so helping with the management of the diabetes. and other health issues that they might have. Lots of interesting families in Westmead. We're from refugee backgrounds,

where they may have had a different diagnosis back in their own country to coming to Australia and then having to go through a new diagnosis. So they've understood that their child has a certain condition all these years to then be newly diagnosed with something different when they've come to Australia. So they're dealing with a new situation all over again. So that was a real interesting thing to,

go through. But just even just helping people with that knowledge of Sunderlink was really important, which I try to say to students that if you can get a placement there will help you through your career because regardless where you go, where you work, you'll find that you're dealing with Sinterlink. So if you have a really good understanding of the payments, that really helps people. So I was able to help a lot of people when I was at Children's Hospital, applying for DSP, disability support pension. So they didn't know that they could get disability support pension from the age of 16. So we would have, it was a single mom with a son, Chinese background. He was 19 and he could have had disabilities for pension from the age of 16.

But no one had let her know that. So had gone three years without that income support that he would have been entitled to. So those things are really important is making sure that you have that knowledge of what's available to people, especially when their income is compromised through, needing to provide ongoing care to a child. So CERLIC was really helpful in that background too. But we used to also educate a lot of health professionals but how to meet criteria for disability, small pension, care, or payment, by going through the Social Security Act,

so that they had to understand what the information is actually needed so that people didn't have to go through the appeal process unnecessarily by using the language that was needed, the terminology. Yeah. It sounds as though your social work background was so perfect, in terms of not just looking at the health side of things and that autonomy and decision making, which comes down to capacity and cognitive developments, but also the risk of unemployment, as you were saying in your background in helping people find employment and knowing what's

available for people. So it comes back to that social work lens of understanding or the importance of understanding holistic needs and how one thing can cascade and cause further problems down the track. That's right. And you've also studied further. You've done a graduate deployment, counseling and communication. So how did that come about? Yeah, yes.

Yeah, that was a while ago. So I was, the time I was living in Manly, and I was wanting to further my studies. And the grad dip in counselling communication was more about what was going to suit my flexibility. So it was at ACAP and it was after work hours, whereas at other uni's it was during the day, so it was hard for me to go to juggle work and study during the day.

So I did that degree more out of interest because I definitely would make a terrible counsellor. So I can't make you say that. Because, well, I didn't do very well in the counselling component of it, I must say. But I have never seen myself as someone who can do that therapeutic one-on-one. I think I'm more very much focused on goal orientation, which I think is also part of therapy, but I'm probably someone that's more of an advocate and dealing with people's crisis at the time and looking at more of the priorities for that person so that we can get, you know, help them get back on their feet.

But I'm not, I don't know whether I'd have the personal patients to do the ongoing therapeutic sessions without feeling. I don't feel like that's my role there. I feel like my role is networking, building relationships, projects, and looking at systemic sort of issues rather than dealing one and one. And so whilst that degree was interesting, a lot of people who were doing that were wanting to go to counselling direction, which maybe at the time initially that was what I thought I wanted, but after doing that, I was like, nope, I'm definitely not going to be a counsellor.

And that's what I love about social work, is the broadness that it brings, that you can do such a variety of different things. But advocacy is probably where I'm most passionate about and networking with all different services to get an outcome for a group of people. So, for example, when there was the Labor government, they were very big on community engagement.

So at Bankstown-Link, we had a really good relationship with housing and at the time guardianship. And we had this man who was homeless and very charismatic. but he ended up having a poor cancer diagnosis. And so he also was with guardianship as well. And through our relationship with guardianship and housing,

we set up a process of supporting people for priority housing. And there was just something that we had done in our own suburb, I suppose, in our own area. And that was through those relationships that were able to get this person housed. But when that accommodation came up, he was in hospital and the hospital was going to discharge him, but he would have been discharged home on the street. And in his health, he couldn't be.

So guardianship put a lot of pressure to keep him in the hospital and there was six weeks until housing came up with something for him, which was in the area. And so it was through relationships who were able to get an outcome for this person. And I guess that's where the networking and the advocacy and the value of relationships with people is really how you get good outcomes. Because there are people in the inside of the ones that really can make the decision.

So I guess that's where I see my role where I find it most exciting is being involved in that space, being part of those sort of things where we can make a collective change. Would you say then that the main thing that had come out of the diploma for you was that communication part rather than the counselling? So that's affected the way that you then approach the problems that you come across and that's the value add that you give to your work? Maybe. I wonder whether I was doing that anyway. But I think it was still good to further my education. And I have no regrets of doing that degree. But it was very centred on individual counselling. But I think that it's good to be learning, regardless of whether you use it or not, I think it's good to always try to challenge yourself and learn more. It doesn't have to be something you do for your career. It's like doing a hobby. You might decide to learn about art or you might want to learn. music. It's something that you can do out of your own interest. And also the people you meet in that learning too are people that you might stay in touch with. They might come back in contact a few years later and ask for a student. So all those things come around in a circle.

Yeah. So tell me about your current role. What might a typical day look like for you? My current role is very different to my previous roles. I feel that it's more of a lifestyle choice for the moment. So I started at you in the 2017. I live in Kudji, so you're in Stubbies in Rambic. I have a two and a half year old, and now I have another baby on the way as well. And I will say the flexibility that U&SW has, it's commitment to maternity leave, great maternity delivered, so six months full pay or 12 months half pay, or if you've been there for over five years, it's nine months full pay or 18 months half pay, but also just being on the other side now,

so being on the education side and I find that the job isn't stressful. Like I find it really enjoyable and I think that that suits the situation I'm in now of wanting to be in a role that's flexible, that's close to home, that doesn't matter if I turn up late. I'm very good at be late even without having a child. But I feel like that's harder now to make sure I'm at the office and time. So if I was in the hospital, I think there's probably more. need to kind of be there on time and also have to do on call, whereas I don't have those

sort of things now. And I guess Sunderlink there sometimes was a bit of customer aggression, which wasn't towards me as such, but you would see it. And I guess that can be quite nerve-wracking. And so I feel like I was at the stage of my career now where I wanted to be on the other side. And I've always enjoyed students, but also to help people with their goal. of what they want to do as well. And so I think that that's a nice place to be at the moment. And I see maybe long-term staying at UNSW, maybe in different sort of capacities,

whether it's being part of the equity unit, they can with students with disability, or I have found really interesting working with international students as well, and just the vulnerabilities that they have when they come here. And the wrong impressions that people have of international students, So a lot of them come here and hearing their stories. So for one example, as I met this young person who was Chinese,

came to Australia when he was 16. His parents sent him to Townsville, which is of all places. Of all places. There's not a big Chinese community there. And he was sent to high school with his parents back in China. And he took himself through high school there and then went into uni and was doing social work

and visit his parents once a year to put himself through that. And that's the story for a lot of international students is they come here on their own. And they've got to build their life here, make friends. And there is a bit of a disconnect between the international students and local students. So trying to bridge that gap is really important and to make them feel supported.

So part of, I guess, seeing that gap was I started an intensive international support group for students on placement where they, a lot of them didn't know each other so that at least I'd had that peer support, but would help them through their learning contract, the mid-placement report, or the accessible components of the placement, but also dealing with the cultural barriers

that they might experience on placement, language barriers, navigating the services, and also advocating for them that they can also be getting the placements like everybody else. I had one student saying to me this year, and now international students don't normally get hospital placements, but I really want one. And I just thought, oh my gosh, we are definitely getting one.

But that's the impression they get because of the judgment that can be out there is, oh, I want a student whose English is the first language or who doesn't have any other barriers. But really, those are the students we should be wanting to support because they're the most interesting to work with. Because we actually can start at the point with them and develop them to a point where they're exemplary or they've been successful at the end of the place, but rather than getting a student who's already amazing. and finishing with amazing, but to build a student and their confidence and their learning is such an amazing outcome and also helps them, their employability, but the value of their cultural knowledge. So if you've got clients who have their same background, they can be there to support,

but also to inform their organization of their needs, but they also have a good understanding of resettlement issues, being in a new country and getting familiar with the services and so on, but they have amazing resilience to come and study in another language that a lot of people, like myself, wouldn't be able to do. One of the things when I was looking overseas to go to a university, it was in English. I never would have done in another language. So they work extra hard, and a lot of them have a job in the evening, and they might be working in hospitality, long hours, and then going to placement the next day.

Don't have that parental support. They've still got to pay for themselves, pay for the rent. So those things definitely wasn't aware of or thought about until I met this group of people. And I thought, gosh, what a very interesting life experience they have coming here and then trying to build their life. They want to stay here. They're interested in social work and they've come from a country where there is, well, social work might be quite a new area. So very different. Yeah.

What are the options for students who might have other responsibilities such as working, not necessarily at night, but during the day? are there part-time opportunities? Yes, so that wasn't always the case. So when I was at ACU, there was 20 people that was first in that degree, and they dropped to 12 because not everyone, and those days were able to commit to placement full-time. It was fine for when we were young, living at home with our parents, but not everyone's in that situation.

So now it's changed. It's very easy to have a discussion about reducing placement to three days a week. The ASW actually say it can be two days a week, But I guess you've got to think about what you're gained from being there two days a week. And also the length of the placement ends up being quite long. But it's definitely support for people who may have current responsibilities, may have health issues, may also have work responsibilities where they're living independently. Obviously, there's a centling there as an option, but that's not always enough on its own.

So people can do vary their placement to three days a week. And again, it's also trying to encourage agencies to be flexible to support that because that's where the decision lies at the end of that is agencies saying, okay, we're willing to provide a flexible arrangement. And not all agencies are there yet. So that's where our role too is to encourage that flexibility in the learning, but also encouraging that commitment to providing students of all backgrounds, a placement. So we've changed our communication to be in line with disability, students with extra support needs,

is your organisation accessible, all those things that we want to be putting at the forefront for organisations to be aware of, you know, thinking of. Can we be doing any modifications now and support people of these different backgrounds? But also hoping that this flows on to employment because that's the other, other barriers. It might be great for them to get a placement, but then we're still seeing, students of disability struggling to gain employment once they graduate. So I think that's where we play an important role to challenge that system, which is still there. Yeah. And what's your process or your approach to providing good matches for students who want placements and based on their interests?

So we organise what we call pre-placement interviews with the students. We get an understanding of what their interests are, what they've already done. they may be already working in an area, particularly with youth, or it might be their last placement with young people. And I guess that might be their comfort zone. So we try and also talk about, okay, well, getting out of that comfort zone and going to a different demographic, that might challenge their learning. But being open-minded and non-judgmental to be able to work with all groups.

And I guess that's the ideal is to graduate with the view that I can work with all different types of people. And I haven't got a narrow focus of I only want to work with this popular. because that's not what social work is about. Like one of my common things they say to people is also if that person's 95, you're going to turn them away. Can't be because you're too old. So I guess it's really trying to encourage people to be really open-minded. And this is an opportunity for them to get that exposure of all different demographics

that they may not have had before. So I guess that conversation starts with their interest, but then we try to further develop and challenge their views to, being open to all sorts of different areas, but also monitoring their triggers. So if someone has had a recent loss, for example, it might not be a good idea for them to be in palliative care, or if someone has a history of growing up in out-of-home care, having a placement with DCJ might not be the right experience for their learning. You'll be surprised how many you have asked for that. So they'll say, I grew up in care, really want my placement to be in that

in DCJ. I'm like, do you know what? You can have your career in that, but I guess when it's somewhere you're learning, it's good to be somewhere comfortable where you don't feel like you're going to be triggered where you can be objective in your learning is important. And then we also discuss placements that we might have that have come through. So just to give them an idea of what's out there. And I guess with agencies, it advertises their organization, especially for employment, but also the client group that they work with. And we find that students get employed in third year and final year. So it's an incentive for both agency and student. But really, it's trying to give them the best professional experience possible that's going to be suited to

their learning. We don't always get it right, but we try to. Yeah. I can imagine when you were going to rural areas and all the really interesting different places you've worked, there'd be a need to be really mindful of your positionality and the limitations of the services and the resources that existed there. How do you negotiate that with the students then? I imagine that's discussed as part of the core subject, but how do you support students on placement looking at those sorts of issues. We actually encourage our rural program. We also have an international program as well, but with COVID that's not happening right now. But we normally have about 12 students going out for rural placement and they can go all over Australia. It's something I strongly encourage because

I think it's such an important experience and there's scholarships available for students to be able to do that. However, not everyone's going to be in the position to go. But we've had students go out to broom, where else, Alice Springs, a lot to Broken Hill, Lizmore, Orange, all sorts of places. And I guess they do an application for that as well, and they might draw on their own experience of being overseas already or travelling independently. But I think it's such a great foundation for people's employment. But even if they're not able to do it as a student, there's always so many jobs in those areas and that they can while they're young it's the time to go I'm too old now and I can't go with a young family but it's definitely something to be applying for

whether you're a student or a new graduate or some in the year 20s to go and have that experience before you get settled down and it's harder to leave but I guess those are things too we prepare them for we have a rural international seminar for students so they can get information about the rural experience and international we invite agencies to come and talk on Zoom about their communities because it's much better to come from them rather than us and they actually run the process. So Broken Hill, Liz Moore, they have their own educators out there who do the matching and they're in a much better position than we are because they know the services out there. But for Broome we didn't have that arrangement. So it was just a matter of us contacting lots

of services. But I will say it was a lovely story because the student out there was at the Brim Aboriginal Medical Service and there was never a social work role there in 25 years since the place has been around. It's a multidisciplinary team. She was the first social worker student. And then in her placement, she was part of developing a proposal for a social work position of which she ended up taking and she stayed. And she would send us beautiful photos of her riding camels along the beach. Yeah, so she had an amazing time. But I guess this is the other side to this too is advertising our profession to areas where there isn't. as social work presence. And that comes with our social work criminology students as well who've

got a real interest in prisons, in corrections, in community legal. We've had a lot of interest in those areas for our students where they're not necessarily have social workers. But the goal is that they'll actually seek out social workers who are applying for roles but create positions as specific to social work. So it's a good way of advertising our profession to areas where hasn't always had a presence. So that's really exciting for. social work to, especially now that there's more graduates than ever. We want them to have jobs to go into. And how have you had to adjust your practice, the work that you're doing because of COVID

and all the shutdowns, other than students not being able to go out to rural placements? Well, at the moment, we've got some who are doing their placement rural but remote. So they're still based in Sydney, but they're still engaged with the placement remotely. So they're doing a project. They're still engaging with people. It might be over the phone. so just like the services are, they've had to adapt, students are adapting the same way.

So all our delivery of how we normally do things in a lecture theatre is now online. I find that it's harder to engage people online are much better. I'm a people person, so I love being in person. But they do put their cameras off, so it's hard to know if they're there. The cameras are all there. But it is nice for them to be able to have a face to our name. So you do feel that there can be a bit of a disconnect in that way. And I guess it's also trying to instill confidence in agencies

that students are also adapting, if anything, a bit of a technology than we are. And they've been doing it for the last 18 months. So this isn't new now. I know it's happened again, and now students are going back on placement. This group that are going on placement now with their first group in March last year, who went through the same thing.

But back then there was a lot more people. panic. So now people are familiar with what to do. They've got their COVID protocol set up. Students are getting vaccinated. And they're doing the same that we are, working from home. And, you know, we're all hoping that things will go back to normal soon. But we're making the most of what we can in this space right now. But hopeful for our next group, which starts in February, that they won't have the same experience. Yeah. And I guess one of the things I've asked agencies is about how they're going to be applying for jobs when their placement may have been limited to phone work.

But then there's another skill set altogether and also having to show it resilience and adaptability when they apply for roles in that. But the students who are going to the hospitals and they're working on placement like everybody else. But the other agencies are working from home, students are doing the same. And they've adapted their services to do that.

So groups have been done online, contacting people by fine or Zoom and doing assessments, then students are doing the same. But I will say there's an increased need now and service demand that never before. The populations of people who have never been in these positions now facing hardship, domestic violence, all these sort of issues that services need,

the resources of students and to be able to employ them so that they can deal with the demand because the demand's probably going to be around for a while. And I imagine there's a lot of scope for roles in, say, Centrelink working on the phone. So it's definitely something that people would do well to improve their skills in or confidence in. Yeah. You're still doing direct work even if it's on the phone. It's harder to engage people and build that connection over the phone.

So if students can master that, then that's a way forward. But they have to do what everyone else is doing in this situation. Everyone's going to continue their degree and they need to graduate so they can be. contribute and they finish. Other than obviously COVID, what is the thing that you find most challenging about your role? Well, I guess because I came back in March last year from maternity leave where you spend a lot of time at home for the baby, so you're excited to go to the house and be back in the workplace and deal with me with a team.

So I only had that for maybe two weeks and then was sent back home. And then having to, I mean, I was lucky to still. remember a lot of things, but I think it's hard when you're back at home. You don't necessarily have someone next to you to say, oh, do you remember how to do this? Or can you show me how to do this? There's a lot of working things out for yourself and maybe taking a bit longer. But the adjustment to do things online to our field education seminars that we run, we're always on campus. But out of this COVID, we've realized that there's a lot more access for people to do the seminars online. So it's hard for everyone.

to come from all over Sydney to spend two and a half hours at you and SW in tri-fair parking, when they can just join them from their office. So that's probably something we will continue and hold on to. But that's been hard. I'm still too nervous to do breakout rooms and Zoom. So even though we do groups on campus, I'm not doing that on Zoom because I still don't know how to do it. So we had to change our whole seminar, which was a lot of work, so that it was more online-friendly.

But what we've done now is we've actually wanted to represent a lot more students in our seminars. So students who have done in direct placements, international students, Aboriginal students, coming to speak about their experiences. And field educators love hearing that. We actually have a seminar tomorrow and one of our colleagues, she's doing a whole discussion of linking theory to practice, which is her expertise. So I've got her to do that. And then we have someone from student services at UNSW who's going to talk to field educators. about what's available for students who are feeling stressed, we've got wellbeing issues.

And so letting field educators know that we're there as a support as well and that we don't want agencies to feel that once they have a student, we give up, like we're not involved. We're very much involved. And the university has a lot of services available for students to help them through their degree and through their placement. And we're all there for the same reason to help people through having a good experience

and it's not just for the student but for the agency as well but the whole yeah working from hiring is frustrating especially for you like being social but then there's other pluses like doing able to do the washing or going for a walk

and there's positives too and I think what's come out of this is the importance of having a balance so I think I'll definitely hold on to some days in the office some days at home and so there's definitely great things that have come out of this

that I think has suited everyone, but also the confidence that your organisation has in you to work flexibly and that you'll get the work done. And I think, especially when the pandemic first hit and I had to have my toddler at home and I was trying to do work in between the sleeps, I mean, there was no, you know, count your hours and keeping on a time sheet, nothing like that.

It was just like, as long as you get your work done, you're not going to be hounding. I said I just had to do. That's incredible. Yeah, so put the baby to sleep and then get work done and then I might do work in the evenings. And I just had to work like that. But having the support of your organisation to do that,

it just really minimises the whole stress of the whole COVID experience that I feel that I haven't been stretched. Thankfully, she can go to daycare now. But back then, you can't get anything done with a toddler. So, but to have the support of work to say, just work around what you can, has made the experience a lot easier. And I can imagine other people

are a way more stressful positions than myself. Can you imagine trying to do that in a hospital? Oh, not. Bring your baby along. No, there's no way. So, you know, I'm in the right job for my situation now. Mm-hmm. But also, I feel that the students, too,

have just been so positive and understanding through this whole experience and the agency. So we only had 75 students go out this term, and we had about 95 offers. so we had an abundance of office through a pandemic, which is just incredible. And so we hope when we send our expression of interests out tomorrow,

that we'll have the same outcome for our next group. But I will say the support from the community has been huge. But then you just always wonder when there will be that burnout from agencies about, oh, gosh, people have got their own stresses now. And you just wonder whether that will take its toll. It's enough for people to juggle having a family at home to then also support a student. There's a whole lot more factors now in play

that might impact people's decision on taking students next time. I mean, I shouldn't worry about that now. But these are things that will happen, why people may decide that it's not a good time for them. So we've also got to keep that in mind too, about there's so many different impacts that COVID has had. But I guess another things too is we've had to provide insurance for students to work from home as well

so they can work remotely. So that's what the union has done as well. We've had to be flexible on our start dates, provide alternative tasks so that they can credit their placements to say if a placement's delayed, they're able to do a project to make up their time so that they don't end up having to graduate later on in the year. So all these things are things that we're trying to do to be flexible so that students don't have the added stress of placement and finishing their degree. But the takeaway from me, the reassurance is that field educators are not on their own,

the supervisors are not on their own. So they do have that support from the university if there are any issues. So you've kind of got two supervisors in effect. You've got your primary supervisor and then you've got someone else who can help work through logistic issues if they come up. Yes. Yeah, that's right. What would you say you love most about the work you're doing?

Gosh, well, I'm dealing with a lot of positive areas. I guess I'm not dealing with homelessness so much anymore, well, at all, or domestic violence. It might be that student lives in their family where that, the case, but it's not so much common now. So I feel that I'm helping to prepare people to skill them to work in those sort of areas, which is a really nice place to be. And I think there's a point maybe in social work where you need to have a career change, change your direction. And I think that this job satisfies that for now. And also I feel that if I see a gap in something that I can have that initiative to say, okay, I'm really interested in working with international

students, so I'm going to just do that. I don't need to ask someone. So I think I love that I can have an interest in something and just go ahead and do it because it's going to be there. It's there with good intention and it's there to support the experience for people. But also just helping students to feel that they're being heard, but also that they're getting the experience that they want, but also knowing too that we can't always get a hundred percent, but we try.

It's good for a student to go where they're going to want to be. It's a lot more work if you force someone to go somewhere they don't want to be. So it's really important to have good relationships with the students and the agencies. And I think that it's a credit to our university that we continue to not run out of placements. We've always been a good position. I don't know next term, but I always worry. But we have always had a really strong connection with our agencies. And I think that's where it becomes an enjoyable role,

that we don't have to be begging all the time. And we feel that we have the support by being a long term in field education that we have the support of our agencies, but also that students are having a good experience. Yeah. Yeah. In that five-year period that you've been involved in this,

do you see any changes or developments in terms of how the social work training has evolved or maybe where do you see social work field education heading in the next five, 10 years? I think now with the, dual degrees. Social work and criminology has really changed the direction of what social students are wanting for placement. They're wanting to work with criminals, they're wanting to work with victims of crime, they're wanting to work in prisons, corrections. So I guess the stereotype

of, oh, I want out of home care is not so much the request as it is with corrections in the prison. And yes, that's a real change, working community illegal. So I think that's really changed the landscape and that we've had to really try to build new relationships in a completely different sector in the hope that they'll also be employing our graduates. We've also have social work, social policy research students and they're really interested in going down the policy direction. So and community engagement and development is also a big area. So that's changed too. So students are asking for different things. And so that has meant that we've had to build new relationships again in those areas. So their requests have changed.

That's really interesting. Yeah. I know you've had quite a diverse history and at the moment this is suiting you really well, but let's say the kids are older and you've got a bit more of an opportunity to think of what other fields of social work might interest you. Where do you see yourself going? That's a hard one. I wonder whether I would do part-time hospital and part-time still stay at your or whether I go into projects and deal with student equity issues. I think it's important to not stay too long in any job. It's always to keep yourself different experiences.

That's what I feel. Because things can change. I mean, I think out of this whole unexpected restructure happened after COVID, people lost their positions. And sometimes people who have been a long time in a certain industry, it can limit you with other choices of what else to do. So you kind of still want to be able to move around. And that's the other thing too is when you start a family,

like you really see the sacrifice that women make. Because I do see jobs that go up and I think, oh, that sounds interesting and I'd love to do that. But then, you know, whether it's the commute or the amount of work that needs to be done. And I just think my priority is different. but I honestly see lots of women out there who are doing those things, have these amazing careers and have a young family and still do it. But I definitely am not one of those women.

I like my life to be a bit easy. Yeah. You've got a lot happening at the moment. I think that's reasonable. Yeah, but the thing is, I enjoy what they do. So I don't have this itchy feet at the moment, and I'll be going maternity leave in December. So I'm going to get a few months left.

And then after that, that we'll see what happens. Brilliant. Are there any projects or programs that you get to work on on the side? At the moment, I feel that that's gone to the wayside. But when COVID wasn't around and we're on campus and we're working with all different faculties, I had a lot of interest in getting involved in the disability unit, possible projects that we could contribute to. And then I went on maternity leave and that didn't happen. So I feel like that's kind of been a bit of a spanner in the works. it actually was involved with a number of uni, was writing a journal article on innovative field education. And so that ends up being published. So that was it something that I did as a

project on the side, but in collaboration with lots of different universities and agencies and even university in Scotland was involved as well. So that was really interesting to be part of. But I honestly, and the same goes for any job that you're in. I think when people say, oh, now I'm not able to do that, I'm like, well, who's really telling you that? Is that you or is that somebody else? Because I think it's so important to be assertive about what you want to do and what you want to achieve in your job and you don't have to just stick to your job description. And that if you can, if you have the energy and the time to go beyond that, I think that's really important. Yeah. You don't have to stick to your job description. Unless you have a really micromanaging manager that stops you, but that would be really different. pressing. Are there any resources or good reading or viewing that you would direct people to if they wanted to know more about social work in general or maybe social work education? Yes. So I've always

referenced it when I work with students, but also with our field educators in our seminars. So it's called Making the Most of Field Education, Third Edition. 2013, it's Cleekin-Wilson. So they give some really good examples of starting placement, orientation to the placement, developing the learning contract, linking theory to practice, dealing with challenges that might happen on placement. We also have a book that we send out to field educators to take a student. It's called How to Grow Your Social Worker. And one of the authors is Louise Study. I remember reading that.

Yes. So that's one that we still use. and field educators request. So that's another resource that I would recommend. I'm happy to send out to whoever's interested. And it sounds as though you're very generous with your time, but it sounds as though if anyone had any questions about potentially taking on a student or how that all works,

you'd be happy to field any questions. Yeah, definitely. Always happy to hear about what people do in their jobs as well, so that we have a good understanding of agencies. And when I have a good understanding what people do in their work, Sometimes I come across a student and I think, oh my God, they would be really suited to this organisation. So I contact the agency directly and I'll say, I've met this student. Her name's Olivia.

This is what she's done. She's particularly interested in working with this group of people. It made me think of your organisation. And I personalise the approach because if people think that you've thought of them personally, it makes such a difference rather than just sending out the generic email. So we do try to make a lot of personal contact. but even in our requests for placements, if a student isn't able to go to a placement anymore,

it's getting them to write something about themselves, write a blurb, send it out, and then the organisations feel they're ready that they know that student. And the amount of responses we get for that is really amazing. So just last week we did that, and we got 12 agencies asking for this student, Olivia, which was just really nice in this time,

that so many came forward, because this student was going to Broken Hill, and that fell through. And just the amount of people that wanted to help and offer a placement, she was able to choose where she wanted to go. It was amazing to be in that position. Yeah, incredible. Yeah.

I'm so thankful for your time. It's just really lovely and refreshing to hear that you're in the right place. You know, you love what you're doing. You're coming across fewer issues than you had done in previous workplaces in terms of dealing with other people's priorities that might have been not really aligned with yours and also potential aggression in the workplace. So it's less that you have to take home. So it's a nicer home environment.

It's a better balance in terms of the opportunities that you've got and the social things that you can focus on. And also the confidence and the trust from your employer to do the work that you need to do is wonderful. And you've obviously done a lot of work in developing relationships with external agencies. So hospital departments, networking with different sectors, diversity of students' interests are really catering to that. And it sounds as though you've done a lot of work in expanding rural or regional remote programs. So I think there's so much diversity there and so many opportunities for people if they wanted to get into this sort of social work, or even if they're just considering what type of social work they might be interested in doing. There's just so much out there and so many different opportunities to get your teeth into it and to just look outside the box.

Because as you said, we're going into more areas than we used to. it's not just out-of-home care or domestic violence. It's actually social work has so many things to offer so many different sectors. Yeah, no, you've got it spot on. But again, thank you so much. This is being such a lovely chat. I really appreciate your time, and I look forward to other people getting to hear about your experience.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion, or ask anything of either myself or Dahlia, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you.

Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Sean, a psychotherapist, community development practitioner and mental health researcher with experience in complex emergency settings. His work over the last 20 years has spanned across the United Nations government, university and NGO sectors and he is currently a team leader at the New South Wales Service for the treatment and rehabilitation of torture and trauma survivors in Sydney, Australia. Sean holds a bachelor's degree in psychology, a masters in social work and has further postgraduate degrees in peace studies and development studies.

I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.