Social Work Spotlight - Episode 69: Zen

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

In this episode I speak with Zen, a qualified Counsellor and Mental Health Social Worker with a strong passion for providing high-quality counselling and support,, experienced working with adults, adolescents, and couples, in tertiary education, non-government and community health settings. Zen’s areas of interest include supporting Individuals with relationship issues, depression, anxiety, life transitions, substance abuse, grief and loss, and workplace conflict.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Indigo project (online therapy and face to face courses and events) - https://theindigoproject.com.au/therapy/?filter-help-me-with=couples-therapy-help&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0JiXBhCFARIsAOSAKqAYTrmKQWHzveTGZeD94k5qz8MVJAy6VUCV7Pfhu_W9NBNJEXcEdzwaAqSgEALw_wcBGotman relationship counselling - https://gottmanconnect.com/professionalsAustralian Childhood Foundation (great resources on trauma, youth and out of home care) -  https://professionals.childhood.org.au/resources/Reachout resources - https://au.reachout.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0JiXBhCFARIsAOSAKqBSWu9Q0yL_Nks9fqgExvkf2srPu_ZVEbQ9hfZm47AqP1lKHcem_yAaAp7ZEALw_wcBRam Dass Here And Now podcast - https://open.spotify.com/show/3Dz4DL2ZMvnNQUnDSXqSdmThis episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-X-FAWljXCMSBsz9WKW0r8PBVKHVFkKL84Xrn6hv2cQ/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight, where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode. I'm your host, Yasamine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Zen, a qualified counselor and mental health social worker, with a strong passion for providing high-quality counseling and support. Zen's qualifications include a Master of Social Work, Postgraduate diploma in Counseling and Mental Health, Bachelor of Business Management, and Certificate for in Training and Assessment, Holding seven years of experience working with adults, adolescents and couples, in tertiary education, non-government and community health settings, his areas of interest include supporting individuals with relationship issues, depression, anxiety,

life transitions, substance abuse, grief and loss, and workplace conflict. In the therapy room, Zen uses a humanistic, person-centered approach with his clients, and his main treatment techniques include CBT, solutions-focused therapy, motivational interviewing, narrative therapy, mindfulness, and acceptance and commitment therapy. Welcome, Zen. Thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Really lovely to meet with you today and have a chat with you about your experience. Definitely, yeah, it's good being here. Nice meeting you and doing all things social work. When did you begin as a social worker?

I'm interested in your beginnings and what drew you to the profession. Great question. First, I didn't begin as a social worker, which is typical to a lot of people's career I find in social work. But I did my master's in social work approximately I finished about six years ago. And prior to that, I did a postgraduate in counselling and mental health. And prior to that, I had an undergrad in business. And although it wasn't, you know, a real direct path, it was always to do. deal with people. So I guess that's what sort of brought me to social work, real sort of interest,

curiosity about people and people's stories. I like, you know, people's sort of interests and diversities and, yeah, and that kind of thing. I always had a passion to do counselling. And so go for a more clinical path, which is why I did the social work, mental health, Medicare route. So that was one of the deciders to go down the social work rather than a few of the other paths. And so you had quite a lot of opportunities, I imagine, a lot of forks in the road. Where did it go from business to counselling and what kind of precipitated that for you?

Good question. It was working in the field of tourism and hospitality for 15 years and hitting that sort of fork in the road where it was living a big, city, things are stressful, not enough self-care, kind of had enough. And then I lived in a tropical island in Thailand because my parents were living there at the time and it was just an opportunity to kind of sit and reflect. And I was at that. I was at my sudden return, if that means anything to you. So 27 and kind of going, okay, what do I want to do in my life now? Like I've done, you know, that thing. And that was great. There was nothing wrong with that. But, then I didn't really have all the typical excuses that you sort of normally have.

And I guess to sort of retract was when I was 18, I did a bit of counselling study, but it just wasn't the right time for me for various reasons. But I just left school and I wasn't big into academia and too much reading at the time for me. I've got a background in music. So I just wanted to sort of play music and be creative and that kind of thing. Anyway, so fast forward again, 27, and I was on this tropical island, and at first I did the typical yoga retreat for a month just to sort of relax and recharge, and then I did a meditation retreat, because that was something else I didn't give myself a lot of time for or wasn't really able to do

in some of those high-pressured roles that I was in, taking time away. And then it was like, well, what do I want to do if money was no object? and I didn't have, you know, the restraints of time. And it was always counselling. So I gave it another go and I could do it via distance. So I started with my post-grad in counselling. And then that led me with support and enthusiasm from my parents to my master's to, you know, open up more of those sort of social work doors

opposed to, yeah, some of the more limited ones that you have as a counsellor. Yeah, sure. And were there times in your social work study, maybe it was your placements that really solidified that you'd made the right choice? I wouldn't say solidified, but it was definitely, there was always a sort of a passion and an interest in it. So I found that it was still sort of a journey and trialling different things. It was always opportunistic and it was interesting to sort of find out what you like and what you don't like. And so when I did my sort of two placements, they were, you know, I learned a lot, but I can't necessarily say from those placements, I found, you know, my workplace and so forth.

But I guess I still had that sort of desire in me to explore it. And that was what was really good at, you know, getting me to where I am. Yeah. And what's that step then? If you trace that out for me, you've finished university. you've gone a complete sea change. How did that all come about? Yeah, so, well, I was living overseas.

Part of my degree then in counselling, there was residential units. So same with social work, you know, with placements and things like that. So residential had to kind of fly back and forward from Thailand to Australia. And that ended up kind of becoming a bit expensive. And so all the benefits kind of soon, you know, dwindle long. So I moved back to the Northern Rivers where I grew up and where I had family living at the time. And then, you know, alongside being a full-time student, I started working in the field.

So for me, it was getting whatever work experienced you can. A new graduate or somebody who's sort of studying. And for me, that ended up being in out-of-home care, which I've heard is quite common. so working with youth and adolescence because people keep telling me I was still relatively young in the welfare world. So, you know, if you're under 30, you're still, you know, considered a baby more or less. So I got into sort of out-of-home care and that obviously gave me, you know, it was a big eye-opener, working with complex trauma and disabilities and all the other challenges that come across with, you know, out of home care. And that kind of paves the path and the

interest, I guess, because there was always something new to learn and no day was the same. Yeah, I sort of progressed in that area of work, from there, I, again, it was always counselling. So that was always my real interest. And I guess as a youth worker, it's not your role to, you know, essentially be the counsellors, your role to be a support to the individual and take them to their appointments and assist them with daily living skills and those kind of things. So then from there, I got a job at TAFE in Queensland on the Gold Coast, which is fortunate enough, I was a career counselor there for two years, and I also had an opportunity of teaching, which was also an interest of mine, I guess, from my, I don't know, music side and performance.

performing side. Yeah, to sort of share some of the knowledge that I gained in training in trauma and, you know, complex, yeah, neurological development. And so I was doing that for a couple of years. And then an opportunity came up while still working in out-of-home care, doing some casual work as a therapeutic specialist, back for out-of-home care. And I was writing behaviour support plans and providing training and had an opportunity. of doing sort of one-on-one work with people for the staff but also for the young people in

out-of-home care and that really appealed to me and I did that for about two and a half years until I bit the bullet and I sort of said well always what you want to do is counselling and that role counselling was only the very small part of it and so I started off I was lucky I could kind of be flexible and drop a few days. And I started working at Headspace doing counselling as a mental health social worker. And then, yeah, eventually leaving that sort of secure job as a therapeutic specialist and working for myself as a sole trader. It's a pretty big step to make, even though it's continuing along that path.

Did you need to do any additional training to be accredited in that space? Well, as a mental health social worker, yes, there is additional sort of training and, you know, benchmarks that you've got to do for all those sort of listening. I guess my piece of advice, if you're wanting to do it, if you're curious to go down that path and look into it, but it does take some time just to do all the paperwork and more and more it's becoming a bit more involved. And what I mean by that, there is some tests that you've got to now do to sort of show that you have the knowledge, you know, working with vulnerable people and or people with

mental health to be able to recognize that and what that sort of looks like. I guess given my background at the time and my skills and development, I was constantly sort of doing courses and things like that. So I had enough PD credits, so to speak, an experience in the field. But you've got to have worked in the field in a counselor role for two years post-qualifying your degree in order to be eligible. And that's just for Medicare. It doesn't mean that you can't work in the field, but to register as a accredited mental health social worker. And yeah, I guess that was always the passion for me.

So that's why I went down that path. And I guess the fork in the road was, if not now, then when. And I'm a big person of trying never to have regrets and, you know, things that you, you know, wish you had done. And as extremist that it sort of sounds is, you know, the reflection on death if, you know, I would have passed away in five years by a sudden, you know, car accident or natural disaster or something like that. It would have been a big regret that I would have had in my life. And so I slowly, I didn't dive straight in, but I slowly worked towards that path. And, you know, at first starting off a day a week, you know, doing counselling, like a sort of a directed path.

And prior to that, you know, working as a career counsellor, that tied into, you know, with my business background and my tourism background, it's curious, you know, in those kind of fields. and I really enjoyed it. So, yeah, started slowly and built myself up from there. A lot of the people that I know that hold that accreditation had really great mentors at the time that helped them set things up, that answered questions, even if it was like a group mentorship program that they were part of. Do you have someone good that you were able to rely on for all of that?

Well, I wouldn't say I've got a collective group, like group mentorship. it's definitely something that I could explore more. And if we're talking about rural opportunities opposed to big cities, I feel there are more limitations in rural sort of settings for specific trainings and that kind of support group. But I found, you know, the people who I went to uni with were always supportive and sort of a sounding board where we could always ask, you know, collective questions to each other.

and they're always good places to provide support. And my managers at the time always, you know, available to sort of ask questions. But what was, again, a big push was my supervisor at the time, who had also previously worked for the same organization as myself, asking her about her journey. A lot of it was the focus was around work and building my capacity as a trainer

and resources around, you know, trauma and disability and engagement strategies and all that kind of thing. But I was also always curious around how she transitioned and what that looked like for her. And she was a big support and mentor for me, role model, you would say, yeah. And having that accreditation, I imagine would open you up to other funding sources, like not just Medicare, you'd have NDIS and other sorts of programs. would you say a most common thing that people come to you for support for? So as far as accreditation, like financial sort of avenues, yeah, there are different opportunities and mental health, you know, social worker.

I guess you are sort of seen as a more specialized, you know, level. But it's still pretty commonality, I guess. I work a lot with the NJAS in my field, but it would be the typical sort of the anxiety, the depression, They're the sort of the main things under Medicare that still are sort of people initially come to see me with. But what I find sort of interesting is, I guess, the things that are underlying those anxieties,

the stresses or the surrounding factors. So what often I find is someone saying, you know, I'm stressed with work or, you know, in a relationship, underlying that is often, you know, their work is quite stressful. and they, you know, don't have many sort of supports or hobbies or aren't sleeping well. And all those, you know, stresses obviously accumulate and to sort of, you know, have those effects. But the interest of mine is relationship counselling.

So I'm really sort of interested and passionate about that. And life transitions and career counselling. So, you know, because I guess I went through that at one stage of, having tried a lot of different careers. I was always sort of willing to give something to go. And I find usually those things that you've yourself experienced, often have that lived experience and ability to provide support or things that may have been supportive for you at the time to support others.

And do you find it at all difficult to work in the small community where you live? Does that ever come up? I wouldn't say that I find it difficult working in the small community, but my current challenge is around people finding you. So I wouldn't say accessibility, but more so around promoting and things that a lot of, you know, welfare workers aren't good at, social workers, promoting themselves and their own services and really that sort of marketing awareness. so people know who you are, know where you are, what your costs are,

and yeah, sort of really going down that path. Before we started recording, you were mentioning the floods in Lismore and the catastrophic impact that it's had on your community. In addition to supporting the people who are going through this, you've had to split your time and your energy between different work sites and all that with the stress that already comes with starting a business, what has that been like for you to just kind of, you know, you've run by the seat of your pants and you've tried to keep up.

Yeah, I won't lie and say that it's not stressful. It's difficult. And I guess in the business world, there's sometimes a feeling or even just as a social work, I'll speak to myself, that you've put on this brave face and you smile and you say everything's great and I'm feeling, you know, robust and resilient and stuff like that. And for me, it did take a couple of weeks

to sort of actually feel the impact of, you know, what that flood felt like and sort of this identity of myself and my business and, you know, what that was like to lose that. So, yeah, it was really difficult in that sort of space. As far as, yeah, the process of sort of change and looking at, you know, where do I go next? where do I want to take this next?

Yeah, it was sort of challenging and I guess it was just sort of looking at what opportunities were available at the time and a lot of my decisions were sort of based around work so it was around supply and demand so finding opportunities where I can work with clients that I have a good sort of rapport with and who I feel that I can provide support with

and obviously also around what places are available that haven't been flood affected and that are within a close proximity to where I live so that it's sustainable because I guess like I experienced is that it takes time to build up a private practice. That will be my one, you know, big message to other social workers out there

if you are thinking about going down that path. It's great, it's rewarding, but it can take time to sort of really build things up. Yeah. Which you've got all this passion, this enthusiasm, and you just want to kind of hit the ground running. And you just have to be patient.

That must be really frustrating. Yeah. Especially when you're having to cut down from a full-time load and salary. And yeah, that's not easy. Yeah. I mean, that wasn't easy. But I guess the biggest challenge in this field I found is that there's not a lot of, resources that really clearly dictate, you know, what you've got to do. How do you do it?

And I found that it was a big frustration of mine. And I'm sure it's for a lot of other social workers. And so I guess me and my colleagues, you know, we supported each other. But rurally, at least, I don't know how it is there in the big cities, there wasn't a lot of support. And what has been created in the last couple of years is a social work group. you know, run by the AASW that meet monthly and have monthly theme presentations. So that's, you know, great opportunity of sort of meeting. But it's often hard with working full time and, you know, often they're during the day around lunchtime.

So for me, that's kind of been difficult to get to. But yeah, I guess just to rehash around what that looks like, even, you know, having studied business, it still doesn't really teach you around setting up. all your tax kind of receipts and what sort of things that you can write your notes on and stuff like that. Templates and also platforms like support platforms where you can write notes and things like that. And so my external supervisor was really invaluable in those instances where giving you that

sort of information because you do need to still be careful and a lot of those those avenues with legal requirements and, you know, having to hold notes for many years. And then obviously being confidential and secure and, you know, all these sort of little things that you find out if or when you go down that path. What would you say you enjoy the most out of what you're doing? What's been the most enriching part of this experience for you? For me, the most enriching part has been seeing clients, change, you know, I guess reaching their goals, having better self-care, a skill set.

I try and wean away from the word, you know, a better skill set, but just, you know, a different skill set that supports them with their day to day and sort of seeing that, you know, the person lied up where they find some of those challenges don't affect them as much anymore or they move and grow away from sort of toxic friendships because they find that that's not really aligned with their values or their beliefs. That's not really how they want to feel each day, you know, having somebody who treats them poorly. So that's been, you know, one of my sort of most enriching sort of experiences is just seeing, you know, people, you know, merge through positive change and being a support in that process for them. Yeah. What support?

do you require, then it sounds like you're very much a holistic body, mind, spirit kind of guy. Like, how do you then disconnect and refuel? I found exercise invaluable as my own sort of self-care. And it's only something that I've been sort of engaging more actively in the last, I'd say, five years. And the reason I say that is because previous to that, somatically, I hadn't really realized how conversations and therapy can just sit in your body as a sort of a stored emotion. And it wasn't even cognitively that I was aware of it happening, but it was only through, you know, movement where I found that was really helpful for me at creating, you know, a bit more

sort of me time and refuel and also supporting me to work with, you know, some real kind of complex mental health and support, yeah, some quite heavy things. And I guess for me, it's all about the boundary settings. So it's, you know, when you're not working is, you know, switching your phone off and creating sort of set times when you're going to do things and also really prioritising social and non-work-related stuff. So there's a balance. Another part of my sort of just own practice is meditation.

So I sort of do that every morning and I found that really helpful for me at managing this line of work. Yeah. Are you able to speak to any of the changes that are occurring in this space or have occurred over time? Maybe it's about funding and the positives or negatives that have come from. that or even any of the other schemes that you work with. Yeah.

So it's a good point you raised that. And I guess one thing that that is emerging in this new space is around telehealth and phone counselling sessions. And what I've experienced is the younger population are generally more open-minded to having that virtual space and obviously the benefits around that. So accessibility, adaptability, saving from commuting times, the costs and stuff that kind of all involves. But there are still a large minority of people who want or who have had previous experience

of having face-to-face counselling and they still kind of want that, which is okay. Like it's all good in my book, but I've noticed some of those challenges and I guess as a practitioner are sometimes in a more face-to-face setting, there can be different costs involved in providing that. And generally, I guess clients still, they don't really want to pay a lot of money or therapy. And there's sometimes an old mentality that, you know, you don't talk about these things or not something that some people see that they sort of do.

Or if they do see a therapist, it's kind of that they're weak, that they didn't do well. But one thing that I'm really passionate also about is preventative therapy or counselling. And not to say to prevent problems, but more of a proactive approach so that you might have a great relationship, but you want to make it even better. Or, you know, your work is good. You're enjoying your work, but you're sort of curious around ways that can make it less taxing or that you can take on more responsibility or, you know, look at ways.

where you can, yeah, demonstrate your skill set better. And so, yeah, I guess, you know, some of those new avenues of different challenges I come across. And I guess the other one just to mention is around Medicare and now just during the pandemic, there's been an extra 10 counselling sessions that have been offered. So people are able to access 20 sessions under the Better Health Initiative. which is great. I don't know when that's going to end or if that's going to change,

but that's definitely been really helpful for many people. I guess still there's a systematic approach where some people see social workers as less than psychologists. And I guess the challenge of having a close relationship with a GP in the community that we're recognised for providing quality, mental health support as well. and I think that's slowly starting to become more recognized as some social workers. May be aware of or not, the NGIS has just created a new directed line for social workers.

And it was to really highlight this same problem in that for the participant and I guess generally for the social worker, as there was so many different costs, you know, whether you're seeing a psychologist, or an OT or a behaviour support practitioner or a counsellor and, you know, the different cost items and stuff like that. So we have been, as social workers now, recognised for our knowledge and our skill set and are at the equal line of psychologists for what they charge under the NDIS. And I think that's a massive, massive thing. Yeah, that's really huge. Can you talk to maybe where some of the gaps are, though?

What further improvements are you hoping to see, I guess, for social workers who are providing therapeutic support over time? I feel some of the gaps are still around education because I think psychologists have been doing the work longer and it's still a sort of social workers aren't as well known, you know, what we do, what we can do, you know, the skill set that we have. So I think more education around those pathways would be helpful. The other challenge is obviously sometimes costs, gap fees and people accessing their GPs, particularly hereurally. They're often really busy and social workers, you know, wait times and things like that.

So people's ability to access a therapist can sometimes take some time through all those sort of steps. So I think the one thing that they were talking about, potentially not having to have the referral through a GP, down the track at one stage, you know, self-referring. If people, you don't want to seek help, that could be, you know, an opportunity, as well as other barriers, really, particularly for youth, you know,

accessing support services to where I live. And, yeah, I guess there are remote towns. There's not great public transport. and more and more, I guess with COVID and, you know, inflation is the cost. It's going to be people are finding things more and more difficult. So often therapy for some people isn't necessarily seen as a priority. Sure.

For the mental health. And so having organizations that really sort of value clients' wellbeing, I think is a great opportunity. And also, you know, through them, getting that support, they're also then able to work more effectively and, you know, at times maybe not need certain time out as well because they've got different strategies at managing, you know, day-to-day stresses. Given that you've spent quite a bit of time living overseas, have you ever considered

working internationally? I've got a few people that I've spoken with who have done short roles or volunteering. Has that ever been something you're wanting to look at? Interesting point. I'm open to it. Having a German background, you know, there has been times where I've gone, oh, I could maybe live over there and work in the field. If I'm being honest, it was mainly been fear. And although I can speak fluent German, I've found, you know, in talking therapy,

there's a lot of very specialized or specific words to describe feelings. Yeah. Yeah, I just, I guess it's my own sort of fear of not kind of exploring that more. around the challenge that I assume it would be to kind of start in a space like that. But in the right opportunity, yes. And I guess one of the other challenges has been around recognition for social work. And in different countries, yeah, sometimes our accreditation isn't recognized directly. So that's, I guess, something at times, you know, I've considered what that looks like.

Yeah. And I guess another thing, I guess having studied career counseling and things like that, within Australia, social workers are numerated quite well, opposed to places like America or even, you know, like our brothers and sisters in New Zealand, paid less. So I guess financially there's been sometimes a sort of a challenge of, for me, I thought if I move over there for a little while and then try and come back and re-establish myself, I assumed it was going to be difficult for me to, you know, take off again for where I left. Yeah, that's fair.

One thing at a time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've also had the background in teaching and group work and music and art. Are you still passionate about maybe incorporating some of that into your private work? I am to a degree. Like, I've got a background in music and have, at times, tried to explore that a little bit with clients. I guess the only thing I would like to say about that is that I found a lot of that work is predominantly focused with children, like art therapy, music therapy. And I'm wanting to now my career work more with adults and, you know, adolescence to sort of explore more of, you know, that talking base therapy.

Yeah, so that's the only reason why I haven't focused on it so much or really. actively kind of incorporated it in my work. But yeah, I mean, I've seen, you know, a lot of growth for certain people exploring that, particularly when some things have just been difficult to sort of talk about. So like drawing things or, you know, providing homework that drawing based or music based or, you know, I found to be, you know, quite helpful. The other thing would be people's sort of interest in different things. I guess it has been another sort of field.

But as far as sort of music and drawing, I feel at times now as well, it's good to sort of do an extra accreditation, you know, in art therapy, to be called an art therapist. You know, I wouldn't sort of feel that I'm qualified as such.

But I definitely see it as a really great modality at exploring with people, particularly in sort of a more subconscious way. And I guess ways that I incorporate that are, through games. So, you know, things like Jenga or even, you know, games like Uno. So it's that repetitive movement-based, not necessarily therapy, but sort of indirect communicating.

So taking that sort of focus directly off, you know, what are you doing? What did you do today? And starting that more sort of natural conversation, particularly people who have, you know, complex trauma and engaging some like walking therapy at times. as well. So walking alongside somebody as an opportunity to sort of co-regulate them and their nervous system. But then slowly is you develop that rapport and that conversation and are able to then unpack some of those challenges or even things that they want to talk about as the relationship develops. And then in time, they do feel more comfortable or some of them my clients have then

wanted to be in that more sort of chair-based talking scenario. But I guess it's keeping an open mind, you know, and working with a client, working with it where they're at and using the skills and the knowledge that you have to sort of adapt to focus on the clients what they want. Yeah. And also feeding off what they're comfortable with. If it's going to be less threatening for them than sitting across from you, for instance. Yeah.

Help them feel more comfortable in that space. What are some resources that you might recommend people check out, whether it's about the approaches that you use or any of the sort of things that people can look at online or podcasts? I know you listen to a lot of podcasts as well. So where can people go to get some of this information and hopefully understand a little bit more about your work? Great question. I was worried that you're going to ask this. I unfortunately I don't have a wealth of really great resources and I guess I feel that's something

else that's kind of lacking in our profession a little bit that there are organizations that provide obviously there are a lot of different trainings and things but a few sort of spaces I found there's a there's an organization in Sydney called the Indigo project and I really like the work that they're doing and they've got some real sort of practical new age courses, you know, one called like get your shit together and just looking at sort of fun, practical ways of, you know, what's maybe going on in your life and, you know, using CBT and other, you know, act and things like that to navigate some of our day-to-day challenges. But that's sort of one thing.

I guess it's role-orientated I found in, you know, what sort of resources are out there. Another thing I'm getting into is more sort of relationship therapy. So Gottman is a pioneer in that field. So looking up on to see his website would be another thing that I'd recommend. And a podcast I'm sort of interested in, do about spirituality, but it's called Rum Duss here and now. And yeah, if you're on Spotify or even just on YouTube, a certain person I've found a lot of interest with.

and I've just been interested in his journey being an ex-arboard professor with a PhD and having that sort of academia life and leaving that to follow more his passion and sort of interest. So that's another thing that I found sort of interesting. But another really good thing around trauma at the childhood Institute, they've got some really good resources as well. Yeah, cool. links to those and people can go off and do some of the reading in their own time.

Yeah. Amazing. So I guess my takeaway from all this is that there is such a great opportunity to be gained by working in the field that you're studying. And so back from day one, you were gaining that experience while you're a student. You had that enthusiasm to continue learning and building your networks as well, I would imagine. and you were focused very early on on, you didn't use this word, but I'm going to say leaving a legacy of sorts. So feeling like you were making the most of the time that you had.

So what can I do right now to be making a difference and really focus on looking beneath the immediately presenting problem to work at the source of what people are coming to you with, even if they don't know what it is to begin with, you can help them to identify that. and you don't have to have all the answers. You know, you don't need everything right away. You just need to get started. And sometimes I think people are held back by this fear of, but what if I get it wrong? And what if it's not successful? But my husband says if you stop surgery halfway,

it looks like murder. Like you just got to commit and just kind of do it. And then you learn from the process as well, right? Yeah. So for you, you've really been able to be that support. for people on the ground, driving that change, helping people to realize their goals. And hopefully it seems raising understanding of social workers and what sort of quality mental

health treatment we can be providing when really there is such a reduced capacity for psychologists, psychiatrists, other mental health professionals at the moment. And what better time when we've just gotten all this additional funding or capacity from the government and people could be accessing subsidised support. It's great that you're flying the flag up there for social work and hopefully creating that awareness for us. Definitely, definitely. Well, there's two things if I can just say on top of that.

Or one thing that you said that I struggled with as well was do I have enough knowledge or is now the right time and all these kind of stuff. So I really struggled when I was going to the teaching role. And a lot of us, it's challenging being in front of people and an audience and supposedly having all the answers. And no one does. I think that that's one thing just to reassure you. But what someone said to me that was really, really helpful was if you finished your social work degree, you're going to know some things that you didn't know prior to sort of beginning your social work degree.

So if you would then meet your former self who was just starting university or somebody else that has just started university, would you now be able to sort of say some things on social work after having studied it for four or six years or two years or whatever? And for me, the answer is always yes. I mean, it's no doubt that however long you've been sort of studying is at the end of any degree that you do, you have. some additional knowledge that you didn't have before. And so would your former self be thankful of talking to you about either indirectly of what your experience was like and, you know, what are some study tips that you found were helpful and or someone who's just starting out is, you know, are there anything that you might be able to now share with them, whether it's placement experiences or something else?

And it was yes. And so with that knowledge, it was more easy to kind of then emerge into a sort of a teaching role. And use all your other, you know, your life, knowledge and experience that obviously also sort of harness into that space. Yeah. I think as social workers, we're so good at and we've been taught from day one self-reflections. So we're all about that reflective capacity. But it's not just clinical. And I think sometimes we get stuck in that clinically reflections.

right. Sometimes it's just reflecting on the journey and going, this is actually a really cool thing that I've done and it's made up of all these other really small things that have created this experience within me, which then enables me to go out there and make a small difference in someone's life. So yeah, I think we're not as good at acknowledging and respecting our value. And I think, yeah, hopefully what people will gain from having listened to your experience is just, you just get started and trust yourself, have confidence, yeah, and lean on people around you to help prop you up. Even if you feel like you don't need it, it's just about having people there who might be going through the same thing and can give you a hand. Exactly. And there are a lot of different areas in social work. I think that's something that also is maybe not that well known. Is there so many different areas you can focus in and or explore. So if you've worked in one field and you didn't sort of like that, there's thousands of different ways that you can use your degree and, you know, social work. I guess that's just something that it's good for people sort of just be mindful. of. If you're curious about something, you can explore it more and that your degree will still

help you, you know, usually get there. Yeah. Because it's so broad. There's so many different skills that we learn. I think that's something that's really great that we've got as well. Absolutely. Social work isn't the end of the line always. I've spoke with an amazing social worker, Alyssa, a few episodes ago, who is now working in community development, but specifically she runs a company that helps people to develop funding proposals for programs. So because she has that intimate knowledge of what people are looking for on the ground and understanding of working with the organisations that fund programs, she can use that knowledge to then help other people maximise the response from the organisation.

So we're a creative bunch. We just need to trust ourselves sometimes. Is there anything else about social work or about your own experience that you wanted to share before we finish up? I think like anything is that sometimes the first step of where you're going maybe is not where you're going to end up, in my experience at least. And I found that different sort of roles, you develop different skills. So I think sort of what's been helpful for me, even at the time if I wasn't so good at it,

it's just sort of seeing that all the different, you know, whatever you sort of do can support you in being a social worker. And I found that sort of helpful. And so I guess someone made me direct example of that would be, yeah, sort of playing music, for example, and just having an opportunity of, you know,

connecting to people with, you know, the different music interests that they have and, you know, maybe having music playing in the waiting room and all these sort of little things around creating not just your personality, but also just a sort of space where people can kind of,

kind of relax and feel good. And I find that sometimes it doesn't have to always be a big thing. You know, when we talk about therapy or these big revelations, I found sometimes the smallest things were really effective, not just in therapy, but just, you know, some different perspectives of way of looking at things that sometimes the changes, even for me working with clients,

for me to kind of get away with out of this space, that the client has to do all these different things to have their life better. But if they even take one thing away from a session with you or a contact with you, that's good. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, thank you again, Zen so much for meeting with me, for sharing your story, for your words of wisdom to other social workers, both practicing and emerging.

And, yeah, just love the energy that you bring to your work and your confidence and your courage, I think, in stepping out there and getting it done and starting your business. I think it's quite inspirational. And yeah, just thank you again for your time. Welcome. Thanks again. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Zen,

please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Gabby, a final year Masters of Social Work student at Western Sydney University,

who works part-time in community engagement with the peak body for mental health carers in New South Wales. Gabby has recently returned from the United States after being selected as one, one of two Australian representatives to attend the International Summer of Social Work Conference hosted by the University of California, Los Angeles. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you next time.