Social Work Spotlight - Episode 76: Cherie

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

In this episode I speak with Cherie, an Accredited Mental Health Social Worker who has over 15 years’ experience working with children, adolescents and adults primarily working in the field of trauma, focusing on sexual assault and domestic violence. In addition to her counselling role Cherie provides clinical supervision as well as mentoring, training and resources for social workers wanting to develop their own private practice.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Cherie’s website - https://www.cheriegillett.com/Janina Fisher - https://janinafisher.com/Judith Herman’s ‘Trauma and Recovery’ - https://www.booktopia.com.au/trauma-and-recovery-judith-herman/book/9780465061716.htmlPeter Levine - https://www.somaticexperiencing.com/about-peterPort Integrative Therapy (Krystal Hawkins) - https://portintegrativetherapy.com.au/ECAV (Education Centre Against Violence) - https://www.ecav.health.nsw.gov.au/This episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gfrQ5kCz4Y7FY50-gj71UsHWjyyaXqIrcUqLZhzr3Vk/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasmin McKee Wright, and today's guest is Cherie. Sheree is an accredited mental health social worker with over 15 years experience, working with children, adolescents and adults, primarily working in the field of trauma, focusing on sexual assault and domestic violence. In addition to her counselling role, Shiree provides clinical supervision as well as mentor training and resources for social workers wanting to develop their own private practice. Thank you so much, Cherie, for coming on to the podcast. Lovely to meet with you and really excited to talk about your experience in social work so far. Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is really exciting. I'm keen to ask, firstly, when you started as a social worker and what brought

you to the profession? I started in child protection almost 20 years ago now, I think. I completed a a behavioural health science degree. But my passion was really in sexual assault counselling. So I then went on to do a Masters of Social Work Professional qualifying to get that qualification to be able to do that kind of counselling. Okay. And what steed you in the direction of the behavioural health science, do you think? When I was in high school, I always had a real sense of social injustice and would want to do something in that area. But I think I knew a couple of social workers at the time, and they were so gentle, so kind, and I thought, oh, that's not me. Like, I've got all of kind of grit, a little bit dynamic. I'm pretty feisty. Like, I didn't think I could ever be a social work. I just

didn't fit that mould, and psychology just seemed a bit too clinical, a bit too structured for me. So I love, I love understanding people. I love meeting with people. I love trying to get to know them. It really fascinates me. So I think behavioural science was a really good fit, but unfortunately wasn't at a degree that really opened too many career paths. Were there subjects that had a bit of crossover that you could then translate or maybe gave you credit towards the social work degree? I think there was lots from memory. There was a lot of sociology components which I really loved. I think from memory it really helped. But there was also a lot of psychology and so a lot of that diagnostic understanding was really helpful.

Okay. And what pushed you across to social work? Obviously you had those friends, but was there something about your study initially or something about your experience that made you realise that perhaps going back and studying again and pursuing that path was perhaps the right idea after all? I think going back to high school, there was a teacher who really fueled the love of social work. It was always in the back of my mind. She would often read out articles of people who are misers and people of being abused or being harmed. And what as a community, how we could help. That was always kind of in the back of my mind. But as I I was working for the director of public prosecutions, I think I had a mentor at the time who

really encouraged me to get a social work degree. I knew that I was also working towards being a sexual assault council. I said that's something that's always fascinated me. And I really wanted that piece of paper to be able to help me to do that. And what were your placements while you were studying, what was your initial exposure to social work practice? I worked at RPA doing the Merritt Program, so the magistrate's early referral treatment program, I think it's called. So doing a lot of counselling there, a lot of clinical practice there with some beautiful social workers. That was one of my placements. I think I had an RPL for the second one. Okay. Do you wish you'd had a second chance at a placement? Do you feel as though you were

prepared at that point to really dive into the practice? Never. So I think only until a couple of years ago that I felt like I was just winging it. Like all other social workers knew what they were doing and I kind of was, oh, I'm just going to keep swimming and hope for the best. I was, I would have been close to 30, I think, when I did that degree or the Masters. So financial constraints really granted another placement. So yes, I would have loved to have done it. But it just really wasn't practical. And what was your first role out of uni? Child Protection.

I was working at Burwood at that time. So working in child protection, which I love and I thought I would always be in child protection. Okay. More changed. I became quite burnt out and really frustrated with the number of system changes and sort of the systemic issues

that are probably still in child protection. Yeah. I saw that you've done work with the role, Royal Commission into institutional responses to child sexual assault and also the New South Wales Sexual Assault Service. That trauma itself as a new social worker is quite a lot to take on. But I can imagine having that sociology and psychology and especially the human development background would have helped you make sense of what was going on at the time. How did you find that work? It's always such a privilege to work with people.

who have experienced trauma, being able to sit with someone and talk to them about what is really essentially unshareable is never lost on me. So I always sit there with that sense of this is such a privilege, like I get to do this work. What an absolute honour. There's always kind of that running, but also I'm able to hold that lens of there's some real trauma here and that's really hard for them and how can we assist, how can we bring some healing. So I think those two pieces are always running for me. But at the time, like in the Royal Commission, we worked with a lot of really experienced social workers

who acted as mentors for me and still are, and I still have in the back of my mind, what would Julie do? You know, what would Kate do at this moment? Really rich legacy. Yeah, so important, especially early on, or any stage, I guess, of your practice to have those incredible mentors and role models

for the work that you're doing. And it's interesting you said it's something that can't be shared or shouldn't be shared. I get the impression that there's a lot of shame and blame around disclosure and talking about those sorts of things. Is that something that came up for you? Yeah, absolutely. It's always a thread within the conversation, the pieces of shame that they hold, pieces of guilt and pieces of blame. And is that then just an opportunity to develop trust and engagement with that person?

How do you support them with their disclosure or with their opportunity to talk about what's happened? I think building that sense of trust is always so important for me in the early piece because that's where things can be shared and that's where pieces of shame and blame can be really digestible. So trust, if people don't have trust within this space with me, we don't get very far. So I treat the work that I do as really sacred, soulful work. and I also try and weave in a little bit of play.

So it can be really titrated. When you say play, can you elaborate a little bit on how you use that in your practice at the moment? I use a lot of somatic experiencing and they really teach us that we have this pendulation so we can pendulate from things that are really harmful like where the deep means are. And we can also pendulate to safety. And so safety for me is things that can be really playful, resourcing, self-care, that kind of stuff. So in my conversations, when it's appropriate and when we have that built-in trust, we can have some jokes within the sessions.

It doesn't have to always be so super heavy and there's so much burden. And we can swing from talking about really tough stuff to swimming back to just really lighthearted, playful conversations. When you talk about that burnout that sounds like happened fairly early on because of the trauma you were exposed to, how did you recognise that burnout and what support did you know? need to, I guess, initiate a change? I don't know if I've done a very good job in recognising my own burnout until afterwards, until I've recovered from the burnout and went, oh, I was in a really horrible place then.

So I feel like as a social worker, I'm now getting much better at that and really grabbing it before it really develops. So in terms of burnout around child protection, I think it was so pretty much. on to the system, that I can't believe the system is doing this to people. I can't believe the system is doing that for me. So I now know that when I'm starting to feel really present of the outside world, that's an indicator to me that I'm starting to feel really burnt out and work. And how did that then shift to the work you're doing now? Were there some steps in between? I think each time I've had those kind of moments, it's led me to another job and it's

motivated me to do more work in the field. So when I was working at Director of Public Prosecutions, I was really frustrated with preparing children to give evidence and the criminal justice system was so taxing on everyone. It really motivated me to get a job at the Royal Commission. When I found out about the Royal Commission, there was something that really lit in me and I have to work there. This is my calling. And I knew it was also because I wanted to see a criminal justice system for people who have experienced sexual assault because going through trial processes are horrific on people. Yeah.

You've made a sea change. You've moved from Sydney up to Port Macquarie. What prompted that and what has that meant for you in terms of your work? I grew up in Coffs Harbour. I've always wanted to move back to the beach. When I was working at the Royal Commission, I was starting to feel like, okay, I'm ready to wind this up, although it was such a incredible life change. experience working there, I knew that it was starting to have a toll on me and I needed that

change. And whenever I kind of make that decision, suddenly the dream job that I want next appears. I'm really quite lucky in that way and a job at the for Macquarie Sexual Assault Service came up. So I jumped on that and that at the time was my dream job. I wasn't going to be anywhere else until a couple of years later where I changed me. Okay. So it sounds as though it was not moving too far out of your comfort zone because you were kind of in the same area that you grew up, but still making connections, finding networks, professional networks, social networks in a new area when you've been living in a larger city for so long can be challenging. Did you feel like you just fit right in as though you'd never left? No, it was probably a hard time. I moved to a town where I

didn't know anyone and it took me a long time to make some friends and make some community connections. and I just finished at the Royal Commission, which was a really fast-paced, beautiful task, where everything got done quite quickly, kind of felt like a five-star social work job. And then working at New South Wales Health, things felt very slow. We ran lots of meetings, talking about meetings,

organising the next meeting, and nothing kind of felt like it was moving for me. So it was a really frustrating time, I think, although I was really happy to be out of Sydney and move to the coast. And what then prompted your decision to move into private practice? Because that's a big deal and that's something that you're now supporting people to go through that process. A couple of things, I guess.

So I had always wanted to open a private practice. I'd never felt good enough to do so. And I bought this beautiful Aboriginal painting, I think, when I turned 30. And I knew that painting was going to be the painting that I'd hang up in my private practice. It wasn't I don't think until like maybe eight or ten years. later where I then opened up a private practice. It's almost like buying a car before you know how to drive. I didn't feel as a social worker, I was really making a difference within sexual assault field.

I felt like I was doing a lot more admin than a lot more clinical. So I wanted to open up a private practice that really focused on sexual assault counseling. So I've done that now. But I also remember being at my desk at sexual assault service, and it was a beautiful day, and I'm a surfer. I mean, I surf every morning, and someone had sent me a text to say, surfs on, need to go. But of course, I'm at my desk.

I've got, you know, files around me everywhere. I'm tapping away. It's just one of those moments where I hope I cannot do this anymore. I cannot work nine to five. This is, I'm not named for this. So I open a private practice primarily so I could surf more and have flexibility in my workplace, but also because I've got this thread that I really want to work with that, from a practice and give back to the community.

Yeah. But that's a big deal. Jumping out of that, I wouldn't say comfortable because social work is never comfortable, but that reliable, predictable work of that 9 to 5, I know where my next paycheck is coming from. And yes, there's probably a lot of admin, but I wonder whether you've got just as much admin now trying to run a business. Did you need support? Did you have any good mentors around developing the practice?

at the time? Yeah, so many mentors. I couldn't have done it without it. I was terrified to open a private practice and I would sort of have lots of supervision around it. I was constantly asking the same Medicare questions, the same questions around GST and tax and those kind of things. So all those back-end things really baffled me. But the clinical work seemed okay and I was able to get through that fairly easily. Yeah. And you provide supervision. now to other people, especially people who are wanting to develop their own practice, what would you say is the thing you love to do most? Is it that clinical? Is it that working with other professionals? Is it a combination of both? Combination of both, I think. I love having

a diverse practice and that's what is great about a private practice that you can do lots of different things. But I do really love working with social workers who are thinking about opening up a private practice. It's really rewarding to see that and trying to kind of just work what they need to do, why they want to do this, and then watch them open at private practice. I really love that. Do you have an opportunity to mentor other allied health professionals or is it mostly social workers? I think it has mostly been other social workers. I think there may be one or two other people.

I was just remembering back in the day when I completed the Hedy Superguide Training for Allied Health professionals and some of the responses, you think you're speaking to the converted when you turn up to a room where people have the option, you know, it's a voluntary, do you want to turn up and learn more about allied health supervision? But the number of people in other allied health professions, unfortunately, who are like, why do we need this? We're not tree huggers. We're not this. And I'm like, oh, my goodness. I really identify with being a social worker right now. And I'm really hoping that you can take this back to your teams, especially in hospital settings where you're not just a physio. You're not

just a nurse. You are so involved in someone else's life because you have that captive audience in a hospital and someone's relying on you often to help guide them through the process. And I went away from that thinking, I really wonder how do they have the support? Do they have the supervision? How are they dealing with this? Are they dealing with a higher degree of burnout? I just don't know. but yeah, I feel as though perhaps that's something or an area where social work can have a little bit more influences supporting other allied health professionals to have a structure around supervision, not just being a clinical oversight of what they do. Yeah, I think that's really true.

I used to do a lot of EAP work, so it was a lot of nurses in my area talking about their work experiences. And I often thought, if they had supervision, I wonder if this would be still an issue. Yeah. What do you find most challenging about the work you're doing at the moment? Is it the admin? Is it the actual clinical work? There must be quite a few things. There are lots of things, lots of fantastic things. I kind of joke that I have a counselling practice that's three days a week. So I joke that I work three days a week. But in fact, I work maybe seven days a week. I just love it so much that I get really passionate and really excited about the next sort of creating content piece that I'm doing. I run a lot of trauma-informed workshops in my area, so I spend a lot of time just kind of cultivating that

or creating more content for that. So there's always work that I'm doing. So yes, in theory, I work three days a week, which I love, and I love the flexibility of that. But, yeah, there's also lots of work when it's just you. I did say also that you've had additional training in business and my first thought also when I hear of people opening a private practice is there's so much stuff that we just don't learn in our social work career in our career but in our training how on earth are you supposed to know all of this business stuff and the fact that you've gone out and you've done that additional training is fantastic what do you think could potentially be taught as part of the social work degree that might help help people to open a private practice when I

chose to do that business course. It was because I was feeling really alone and I just was searching for how to run a private practice. So I would love to see a little bit more content around how to run a private practice and what is the structure. What can it look like? What do you need to know? There's a little bit from ASW around that, but it really needs to be expanded, I think, to support social workers more. And I don't remember anyone really talking about private practice when I went to uni. We expected psychologists to be in private practice, but I'm not sure if I ever got a sense that we could do this work. Yeah, I've heard of a lot of new social workers who are getting very excited about developing private practices, but from your perspective, how important was it to have

that clinical experience before diving in? I think it really resorts me in the work to really be able to land in my private practice and feel quite comfortable. A lot of my clients can have really a lot of complexities and I don't have a team around me. So I wouldn't have coached if I just opened up a private practice. I'm glad I had a really rich experience of a lot of diverse clients. That's really helped me. And what would you say are people's main reasons or motivation for opening up a private practice because I imagine it's quite multidimensional. People always say they want more flexibility and they're often frustrated with the government service that they're working in.

And sometimes it's also a plan for retirement or a plan to wind down or a plan to balance home life and work life. Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder if it's also similar to your experience where you saw that there was a significant gap where someone might have worked for many years in an area. be very passionate about it, see that there's a bit of a niche, like there's a bit of a gap in the market and go, actually, no, there is a need here. I can identify it. It's that market analysis whenever you're looking for jobs, you know, so that to me would make sense as well. What kind of support

do you need now, I guess in your two hats as a practice owner, manager, and also now that you're continuing to hear a lot of really horrific traumatic stories. Well, I love, I love supervision. I love having a place to land where I can kind of talk about the clinical stuff. I also need colleagues or friends that can also have an understanding of this work. But I also need a place that's separate from it as well. So I have a beautiful surf community. I don't talk about work with them.

I keep that very separate. And I love that. I love that. I can just go to the beach. I'm not a social worker, but I have other places where I very much am a social worker. Sure. And I know Port Macquarie is quite a large town, but does it ever become difficult working with people that you're seeing all the time?

It doesn't get difficult, but it's certainly, I see clients every time I leave the house. So every time I go to the beach, I'll see a handful of people. And that's okay. It means in sessions that we do have a conversation about that, about boundaries and what that look like for either of us because it can get quite worried. I spoke with a couple of wonderful human social workers previously. Mark was telling me about a project he'd been involved in called Waves of Wellness and it would involve people going out to the beach and becoming comfortable with,

firstly, the outdoors, but secondly with the beach and the waves and all that sort of thing. And also with Kathy more recently, who she has a practice called. or counselling by the seaside. And she's more comfortable outdoors and walking and talking and going to a cafe with someone. Do you think that could ever be something that your practice could expand into? Even surfing therapy sounds incredible. Yep. So it's funny you say that.

I'm getting my surfing coaching certificate or whatever it's called. I've got like about four or five certificates. I've got in the tabs open at the moment. But that's one of them. And yeah, hopefully I can move to that. in the future and I'm not sure what it looks like yet, but it's on the back burner. You'd have to put some real parameters around that though if your surfing is your escape, right?

Absolutely. How do you think you'd go about doing that? I think it'd be okay because I just love it. I love being at the beach and I love surfing so much and I love people who do really get into surfing. It's such a therapeutic benefit that I see from clients who I know I have encouraged them to get into the community, into our surf community. have worked around doing that already and it's incredible the things that it does for them.

But I guess there's always going to be a risk of, especially if you're working a lot with the somatic experience, if you're doing something that's very physical, it could then bring up. Also spoke with Elise who runs a yoga practice and it's very much about the mindful and the therapeutic. So whenever you bring up those sorts of issues in that environment, that can also be challenging, but perhaps that's a vehicle for someone to then talk about things that perhaps in a different setting they might not be comfortable. Yeah.

And so my head, I feel like where I'm out of state in my career, I can really hold that clinical understanding and know what to do in those situations. It's the business stuff that I kind of worry about. It's that, oh, so what is the insurance would look like in that situation? And that is what restricts me from doing those kind of things. Sure. Would you consider bringing other therapists into the practice if one day it could be developed further? I don't know about that. I don't. Probably not. I really like doing a solo practice. I work alongside

a lady named Crystal Hawkins, who runs for integrative therapy, and we work very closely, and we run the trauma-informed workshops together. So I feel like I have a colleague. I feel like I kind of have a business partner as such, but we each have our own separate business models. every month. And I can tell that you've really found your area. You're very passionate about this therapeutic work and the private practice work and the flexibility that that affords you. But are there other pathways or other sort of time stance where you can think, oh, if I hadn't done that, I would have ended up over there and what might that have looked like? I don't think so. Like, I love where I'm at. And I think, you know, I think someone asked me the other day, if I wasn't doing this, what would you do? And I was like, no, it's not even an option.

I would be doing this, but just a different version of it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so your sliding doors moment always leads you in the same direction. That's pretty wonderful. Are there any projects or programs that you're working on at the moment? I think you've got support groups running, is that right? Yeah, and we have a lot. So next year, so personnel was just talking about Bristol,

we're hoping to do the Jacaranda program next year, which is a 10-week program for saliva of junk. childhood sexual assault, beautiful women's group. So I hope to do that. Hoping to establish a few more online training, especially for special workers looking to open up a private practice and shorter webinars and maybe some more advanced webinars for people who are already in private practice

but want to start to get a little bit more advanced in their work. That's different things happening. Yeah. And that keeps it interesting. It obviously gives you more to do. It makes you more busy. But I think like you said, when you've got that diversity in your work, it makes all the therapeutic stuff a little bit easier to manage.

True. Are there any resources that you'd recommend that people check out? Obviously, your website is a great place to start. But getting from what you're saying, there's a lot of CBT, DBT, trauma-focused stuff, mindfulness, probably attachment things. Are there great authors that you love to read? Throughout my therapeutic practice, I'm mostly using internal family systems

or somatic experiencing or polyvagal theory. So they're the kind of lenses I really use at the moment with people. I'm also studying the VETA method, which is tantra and neurobiology. And so that's looking at more of the somatic experiences and more of a sacred, intimate connection with oneself, especially for those who have been sexually, use, then that connection back to their intimacy and pleasure is really important.

So cultivating ways to do that, I use that lens. What else? I think sort of in my head go back to things that either Janina Fisher said or Judith Herman in the trauma and recovery book or Peter Levine, I often sort of go back to those practitioners and think about what they have taught me over the years. Is there any training that you might recommend? people look into if they're interested in working in either child sexual assault or trauma in general and also private practice? I've done a lot of training through ECAB, the education

centre against violence. Incredible resources and incredible training. It's always mixed with beautiful theory as well as really practical things to do. So that's been a lot of my sexual assault training. But somatic experience in polybabel theory, I think, is really important to me in my practice. And I always recommend social workers who are sort of early in their career to start looking at those two models. Great. Having myself not had a great deal of experience working with either children or people affected by a sexual assault, what changes have you seen in this field in the time that you've been working? Have there been some good changes that you've seen? since the Royal Commission, there has been lots of changes. There's been a real cultural shift,

especially in the way that just even community members talk about sexual assault. So I find that really reassuring. There's still so much to go, though. I think there's still many things I would love to see changed. But the ability to talk, the ability to disclose abuse, I think has really changed for a lot of people, which is really encouraging. What would you like to see? What are those opportunities. Where can this field go ideally in the next five, ten, 20 years? Well, that's such a good question. Where can it go? I'd love to see every workplace have a real trauma-informed lens, that ability to understand that people can project from ruins and create a real sacred container and safe spaces for people so they can find a sense

of wellness and find a sense of wholeness. We know from the research around post-traumatic growth that healing really is possible. People can get really stuck in wounds and their experiences. I think hope is where I'd like to see a lot of it going to that knowing that healing is really possible. And it sounds as though there is a big deal of both the history and the future of that world being driven by social workers. But are you finding that other professions are starting to,

well, I guess psychology as well traditionally, but are there other professions that are also leading the way in this area? I think traditionally social workers have really led the way in sexual assault. I think they were the ones that really drove the sexual assault services from my understanding to be opened. But I now find that when I talk to psychologists, they have a much better understanding of trauma and starting to really shift their discussions around how they made a client holistically rather than through that really diagnostic lens.

I think other professionals too, I work closely with some OTs and they're doing some beautiful work around trauma. I'm learning so much of them around how to respond. I think everyone's really doing the work now. That's really good to see. I've also noticed that there are social workers who are teaching at universities but not in the social work department. So they're being asked to deliver lectures or subjects in health sciences and with the medical students as well. So that's really reassuring to know that it's not just anatomy. It's not just physiology. It's actually, you know, if someone presents with something,

how do you identify it? How do you recognize it and how might you respond? Rather than just going, I can see that there's an issue there called a social worker. Yeah. Our systems have really siloed every industry, and I'd love to see that more integrated approach because we know that trauma impacts every part of someone's world. Yeah, so having that maybe a social work lens around having that big, broad, holistic perspective is so important.

And that's why I would love to see more social workers in private practice because they do really hold that names and understand the importance of it. Yeah. Do you have any advice for people who, like yourself, have suffered from a bit of imposter syndrome and felt, oh, I know what needs to be done, but I don't really know how to get it done or I don't know if I'm the right person? I think just keep going. Get yourself a really great social work supervisor or a mentor and keep doing training. It's so important just to keep learning, keep staying connected to people who are more advanced in these practices so that you just keep growing. I know you've said before, start before you're ready as well, which in your case and other people's cases might actually be start before you think you're ready because you probably are, right? Yeah, that's something my mind.

mentor would often say to me that's sheree it's done is better than perfect you just need to keep going now you just need to start so yeah i'm a big believer in people just need to start sometimes but yeah you also need to have that kind of if you're already doing the work if you're already doing that clinical work you're probably ready to start we just need to get some good systems in place to help you feel that foundation underneath you sure i think the grit and determination that you were talking about earlier has translated really well. It's meant that you have taken that step, you've found your feet, you've worked out where your strengths are, which is really important as a social worker. And you've talked about the work you're doing as being really sacred and soulful work, which it's a really hard area

of social work. Like not a lot of people could sit back and say that about their work, I think. But I think the fact that you've made it playful, the fact that you've focused on not just having a very traditional therapeutic focus has meant a lot and definitely has impacted on the people that you're supporting. Is there anything else about your experience or about the work that you're doing that you wanted to talk about? As you're talking about, just made me really think about when I am in sessions with that do you create a little bit of a ritual space to start. so people can have a sense of feeling safe to be heard, to be supported. And what that does is that we try and do a sort of a semantic exploration around trying to find someone's true essence, because trauma really makes people really quite fragmented

and operate from those fragmented parts. So I would love to see more people really diving into that kind of lens that you get to work with. This is such a privileged work that we get to do this work, but we can connect really deeply to people's true essence. and that way people then can be really authentic in the world. And when people are really authentic in the world, we're not operating from the audience,

operating from our soul. We're operating from that really sacred true essence place. And I think that's true of most social work, even though, you know, if they're not working in private practice, they're still, it's important to recognize why you got into it in the first place. And that's one of the reasons why I love hearing about other people's journeys

is coming back to that, yes, you might have had a horrible day or, yes, you might have had an interaction that didn't sit well with you, but it's important to keep coming back to that, why did I start this, what keeps me going, what are the future things that I can be looking for, which yes, supervision can assist with that, but sometimes it's a bit more just soul-searching within yourself and reflection. Yeah, and I think one of the best therapeutic tools I've had, in my career is doing my own work, so doing my own therapy. I love actually doing different types of therapy before I sign up to the training and before I use it on clients. It really

enriches my experience of it and then the sessions experience of it. The more therapy I do on myself, the easier this work gets for me. Yeah, and you're constantly doing your own ongoing learning, right? So that helps people and I guess other professionals, if they're doing, doing their own learning, it will just help them to identify a need that's there with the person that's in front of them and it helps them to hold space for that person for their healing. So like we went back before we were talking about the specific training that we get, I feel like life starts at graduation, you know, that there's so much that we don't learn as part of our training and so much that can enrich our practice that only comes from diving in.

there and doing it. So yeah, you don't need to have the answers. Yes, a lot of businesses, a lot of companies want you to have experience before you get started, but you just dive in there, just do something, even if it's tangentially related to social work because it's all such great experience. Yeah. I think the social work training I had really helped me do a lot of casework, but not necessarily that one-on-one clinical work, and that's where the other training is come really resource me in the work. Thank you so much, Cherie, for talking with me. I've loved hearing about your really important sexual assault work, that clinical stuff that you're still doing, but you've got a real knack for and a real strength in holding spaces for people and supporting them

through what is probably the most difficult thing that will ever happen to them and also your ability and your identification of the need to have external support within that so that you can continue to do that work. I think that's really important. And I think it's great that social workers are getting the name out there and developing private practices because we've got so much strength, so many things to offer different communities. So yeah, I look forward to seeing what you come up with next, all these amazing groups that you're doing and the training and, yeah, thank you again for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me today. I really love the episodes that you put forth. I really love hearing different types of social workers and their

career and just their joy too in this field and the fields that they're working in. So really thank you for the work that you're doing and the platform that you've created here. It's such a beautiful place for social work to be celebrated and then individual social workers to be so much for having me. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Cherie, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter,

or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Claire, a community-based social work, with experience initially in mental health before moving into the field of criminal justice. She has predominantly provided long-term case management and support for women as they transition from prison back into the community. Claire is a strong advocate for assisting people to develop

pathways and identities outside of the criminal justice system to reduce the numbers of people, particularly First Nations peoples, cycling in and out of our prisons. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.