Social Work Spotlight - Episode 82: Patty

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

In this episode I speak with Patty who began her social work career as a domestic violence counsellor before moving into child protection for children in foster care and out of home care. Patty is an external supervisor for social work students at the Australian Catholic University and has had her private counselling practice for 15 years. Patty is also a wedding celebrant, retreat host, workshop facilitator, coach, counsellor, reiki master, energy healer and senior yoga teacher. More recently she began hosting a podcast called Carer Conversations to help provide support and inspiration for carers who care for their loved ones in the ageing, mental health, addiction and disability sector.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Learning for Life program - https://www.learningforlife.org/NEIS: New Enterprise Incentive Scheme - https://www.dewr.gov.au/new-business-assistance-neisPatty’s website - https://pattykikos.com/Carer Conversations podcast - https://www.benevolent.org.au/blog/the-benevolent-society-launches-new-podcast-to-support-the-2-7-million-carers-in-australiaThis episode's transcript can be viewed here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uBk4PPjlcIZYmTx7WsBDAiyj3xGk5_31KahCoexSmqM/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to social work spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession in each episode.

I'm your host, Jasmine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Patty Kikos. Patty is an instigator of change who holds a powerful space for deep transformation since starting out as a social worker in 1998 as a domestic violence counselor before moving into child protection for children in foster care and out of home care. Patty is an external supervisor for social work students at the Australian Catholic University and has run a private counseling practice for 15 years. She has taught yoga, created transformational workshops and courses, and also lectured on teacher trainings. Patty is renowned for helping many people to evoke profound changes through her

gift of translating ancient wisdom into practical modern understanding. Her thriving wedding celebrant business has seen her officiate hundreds of soulful ceremonies and Patty has also presented at many yoga and wellness festivals over two decades. Her depth of knowledge, both in person and online, has helped many of her clients feel empowered to release outdated holding patterns, clear emotional blocks, and help create a positive blueprint for all future intentions. Patty is a popular retreat host, workshop facilitator, coach, counselor, Reiki Master, Energy Healer and Senior Yoga Teacher.

More recently, she has started to host a podcast called Carer Conversations to help provide support and inspiration for carers who care for their loved ones in the aging, mental health, addiction and disability sector. When she's not outsourcing technical tasks, Patty can be found watching a sunset or going for long walks. She aspires to be a minimalist and is learning to whistle with her fingers. Hi, Patty, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today to chat about your experience. as a social worker. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here, Yasmin. When did you start as a social worker and why did you choose this profession? So I became qualified in 2008 and I probably chose this profession because I'd witness violence, drug abuse and subsequent drug-induced psychosis within my own family. So maybe in one way I wanted to become

that person that I wish I could have had access to during that difficult time, but maybe I also wanted to delve deeper into learning about how to navigate those difficulties if they ever came up again in my life. I think for the most part, I wanted to and needed to heal and social work seemed to be something that was accessible for me. Although in hindsight, had I known more about psychotherapy, I probably would have been more drawn to that. I also think that I was very attracted to the hands-on assistance. So although I have an academic side to my personality, the statistical aspect of psychology never really appealed to me. I'm more of a out in the field, boots on the ground, dirt under my fingernails kind of girl. And interestingly, once I finished my degree,

it felt like I had a lot of theoretical knowledge, but I lacked that worldly experience that I was itching to have under my belt. So I decided to travel the world. And initially I planned to be away for about five months and come back to my graduation, but I ended up being away for about two and a half years. And I think it was a wonderful experience for me because one of my key personal pillars is the aspect of freedom. And I had that for the first time outside of an academic schedule, outside of a work schedule. And like most other Australians, I had this dream to go to London because it seemed to be glamorous and it seemed to be sophisticated. But after a few months, even weeks of experiencing that harsh winter, I left and I moved to Amsterdam where I was mostly based. And this was thanks to

the European passport I had, which meant that I could live and work there legally, unlike my other Australian counterparts who were occasionally exploited with under the tablework. And I traveled to places like Africa for a few months. I lived in India for three months. And I was also based in Italy for some time. So while I was away, I had amazing experiences where I immersed myself in yoga. I learned about other alternative healing methods. I lived in different cultures of people, which is an experience that has stayed with me forever. And I hadn't really planned to be away for so long. I ended up coming back reluctantly. And until I found the social work role that I felt was most aligned with me, I ended up working as a contractor in corporate recruitment.

which was a very rocky landing and certainly not aligned with my values at the time. And part of my role was assisting in assessment centres, which is a technique that companies use when they need to do a big bulk recruitment at the time. And I was able to use my interview skills until I finally found a role as a domestic violence counsellor for a charity. And then after a while I transferred to a different role in the same charity for their learning for life program for underprivileged children. Well, there's so much there even before you embarked on your professional journey.

Definitely. You said that you spent much of that time in Amsterdam, but was there a place that you'd travelled to where you perhaps drew inspiration from in terms of developing your social work skill? Yeah, Amsterdam is actually where I discovered yoga. I had a beautiful yoga teacher. I also drew a lot of inspiration from India and their way of life, their way of devotion. I was able to access a spiritual realm that has become part of my personality today.

In terms of very formal, specific social work, no, it was much more informal because it's where I got to see people that weren't European citizens necessarily that were living as illegal citizens in Amsterdam and were staying there and like forging their own passports to be able to be there because they couldn't return to their own home. So it wasn't formal. it was more, wow, so this is how the other half live. Okay, this is how we get through the borders. Okay, this is really interesting.

This is something that I'd never encountered in Australian, would never have had that experience. Yeah, that's incredible. So then what's led to this point in your career? What are those steps? Well, by that time, I was ready to be in social work, and my placement at university, one of them was in domestic violence as a counselor,

and the other one was in a mental health facility that also included drug and rehab recovery. And at the time, I was very ready to work in a social work role. I was driven. I was ambitious. I loved the idea of being able to help people navigate rocky periods in their life. I love being able to advocate for people that weren't able to advocate for themselves. And although I loved the role, and although I was very passionate about the work I did, such as the counselling, conducting home visits, preparing clients for court visits, assisting them with interim violence orders, helping them access housing, connecting them to services that they needed, I actually started to feel frustrated.

When I first started working for that particular charity, it was during a period where morale was very low and staff turnover was very high. And initially, this didn't worry me so much because I was so passionate about my own work. But gradually, it started to impact me as well. And although I worked hard. I felt like I wasn't necessarily progressing any further in my career and I certainly wasn't getting any more remuneration for my increased responsibility and experiences. So I worked for a charity and I could legally justify paying me charity award rates. So my passion slowly started to turn into resentment and after several years I left. Yeah, I absolutely feel that the community service award doesn't adequately value the work we do and especially if you felt stuck in the role

have a little opportunity for progress, that would be the time to consider moving on. Yeah, that's right. When you look at what your boss is doing and you don't want their job and there's not necessarily another opportunity for you, you've got to think, is this aligned with my values? Yeah. So where did you go to after you left? Well, the joke is that I sold my soul to the devil because I started selling advertising for the yellow pages. Can you believe it? Wow. Yeah. I mean, this is funny because anyone that knows me knows that I don't have a competitive bone in my body. So I remember during my interview, I was asked about my blatant lack of sales experience. And I remember responding by saying something like, well, I spent the last five years

going above and beyond for my clients without earning a penny more. So I'd like to be in an environment where I'm financially compensated for my efforts. And boom, long behold, I got the job. I love the transparency there. I was genuinely honest and clearly genuinely naive. And as soon as I realized that I'd made a grave mistake and not only had I lost my freedom in terms of how to structure my day, which is something that's really important to me, but I quickly saw that this was not something that I was passionate about, and that's very important to me as well. So I tried to stick it out and stay there for the money and connected to a passion of mine outside of work, which at that time was dance. And I started performing, and this was a lot of fun, but it wasn't until I started to teach

it that I realized that I'd tapped into a whole different realm of my personality that I'd never explored or even experienced before. It was a resource of passion. So my love of teaching was born and it brought out the best in my personality. I was just naturally patient with my students. I loved to be part of their transformation, not only with their dancing skills, but also when their confidence increased. Yeah. And while you were finding that love of teaching, what happened with your Yellow Pages role? Okay, so although I was passionate and driven, I just didn't have a competitive personality where I need to be front and centre and leading all the time, much like the dance performing.

So I transitioned into teaching and it was at this point that I realized that this job was unlikely to fulfil my needs and staying there for the money was just not something that I could justify. So I decided that I wanted to go to work for myself and to start my own counselling practice, which is the aspect of social work that I loved to. the most and I missed the most. In fact, I'd started seeing a kinesiologist and I'd even studied this as well. So it was another dimension that I was adding to my counseling skills. And I had this burning desire to curate a life for myself that I loved that I didn't necessarily

want to escape from. Okay. So you started your own business? I did. In fact, I started three businesses completely by accident. Okay. Okay, slow it down for the dummies, please. I am me. How did that come about? Okay. So at the time, there was a small business management program that was subsidised by the government, which was called the Nice Program. And Nice is an acronym for the new enterprise incentive scheme. I'm not sure if it's still ongoing, but it was a six to eight week course.

And the government paid you a stipend, but also subsidized part of your income and your rent for six months afterwards. So for me, it was incredibly life. changing because I'd done many different courses relating to counselling or domestic violence or trauma response, but I'd never ever crunched numbers and done anything that was business related. I mean, to this day, I still struggle to program basic Excel spreadsheets. Yeah, not even joking to make it funny. It's actually true. So part of the initial course was about getting clear on your why. Why do you want to do this? Why do you want to start a business? Who do you want to serve? And the big one, was what brings you the most joy. So I knew that freedom and passion for my work was important

for me, but I also had to connect to my creativity in order to feel fulfilled and to feel like I was continuing to learn. So for the first time in my life, I crunched some numbers and realized that I had to be realistic about how long it was going to take before my private practice was going to be viable enough in order to financially support me. And it was in this dingy little room somewhere in Chatswood on a very ordinary overcast day that I was inspired to start to do everything I'd ever wanted to do. So I decided that I was going to train as a yoga teacher because I used to practice yoga to heal my body because dance rehearsals would wreck my body. So I thought I'd also become qualified as a wedding celebrant as well as start my own private counseling practice

in the spirit of doing everything that I loved for a living, which is exactly what I did. So what could possibly go wrong, right? What could go wrong? How did that go for you? It was an adventure. In hindsight, it was difficult and it was definitely an uphill battle. The irony is not lost on me that I ended up burning out. At the time, I thought I was being pragmatic. I thought I was being adventurous, and I thought that I was going to curate and start a life for myself that I was going to really love. So if I could give my 28-year-old self some advice, I'd caution her not to do that necessarily, although in all fairness, the younger Patty of that day was quite tenacious and forthright. I doubt that she would have listened. But I probably would have given her this suggestion. I probably,

I would have encouraged her to keep a part-time social work role while starting my private practice and then gradually adding more strings to my bow, or at least I would have waited to one aspect of the business was financially viable before starting something new. So the crazy thing about starting all three at once is not only did I have to work hard in each sector to gather that experience to build up my street cred, but because I was new in each role, it took a while to gain the momentum for my reputation to attract regular opportunities and clientele. So although it was exciting, it actually was exhausting and financially it meant that I lived hand to mouth for many months and even years, because most of my profit would simply go back into the business. So even though I've made

money, when you work for an organisation, you're entitled to holiday in sick pay, along with the benefits of attending courses that keep you updated in your role or to even help you transition into different roles that exist within the organisation, right? That's it. Yeah. But when you work for yourself, you need to fund your ongoing professional development. So this was on the ongoing for me when it came to different coaching or healing or counseling methods, along with yoga courses and even staying up to date with registration for my celebrant work. And if that wasn't enough, add to the mix of fact that you need to learn about how to expand your business. You need to learn how to update your branding and marketing as well as how to create online courses.

Well, that sounds like you were just so busy. How did you cope through all that? I'm not sure that I did. I think I managed to survive, but there's only so, far you can go when you survive before you start to feel very depleted. And despite doing everything that I loved and everything that I was passionate about, I definitely wasn't thriving. I actually ended up burning out a few times. In fact, I remember telling my acupuncturist that I'd had another adrenal burnout and she just laughed at me and said, you haven't had another one. What you're going through is simply version 2.0 of the initial one because you simply haven't rested enough. And it made sense to me because I was effectively running on a drain.

for so long. And it's proof that you can certainly do what you love. But if you don't set boundaries and if you don't manage your energy, you're definitely going to deplete your energy circuits. So by this stage, I'd move to the beach, which had been a lifelong dream of mine, as I love nature and I love being away from the busyness of the city. But I was craving more simplicity. And I was definitely craving a lot more monetary stability. So there's this quote. and I only read this recently that I'd love to share with you, and it's by Mary Ann Williamson. And she said that when 70% of our population lives paycheck to paycheck, it means that 70% of our people are living with chronic economic anxiety. And it's like a rolling form of PTSD.

So it's not post, but it's actually present traumatic stress disorder. It's not a mental health crisis. It's more of an economic justice crisis. And it's something that applies to our clients in the social work realm, but it's a topic that's also relevant to many of us who are working in the field as well, whether we're not necessarily getting fairly compensated for our work, or whether we're working for ourselves, or whether we simply just don't know how to manage our money. Absolutely. So in addition to your private practice, did you have any opportunities to delve into other social work realms? Yeah, I started to work as an external supervisor for students at the Australian Catholic University during their placement. So my

My role was, and it still is, to provide supervision and to mental students on their placement, in addition to their placement supervisor. So this is done when their agency supervisor doesn't necessarily have a social work qualification, like they might be a psychologist. Or if they do have a social work degree, they might not have enough time to provide the adequate hours of supervision that's in line with the standards of the AASW code of practice. Sure. Yeah.

And I love this. I love this role because I do love teaching. I love mentoring, and it keeps me connected to agencies, and it keeps me updated with agencies like DCJ, NDIS, New South Wales Health, and also in all the varied sectors like child protection or housing or domestic violence, certainly in disability and ageing. But it also keeps me up to date with topics, like the values and ethics and professionalism of social work,

being culturally responsive and inclusive with cold communities and First Nation communities, developing knowledge for practice and the application of skills for practice, helping them develop their communication and their interpersonal skills, as well as emphasising the importance of supervision and ongoing self-learning according to AASW standards. So it's really satisfying to see my students from their first placement to graduating with either a social work or a master's degree.

And once they finish their placements, many of them will often say, this was amazing. I'm just not sure that I'm ever going to be able to do this full time. And I think in order to maintain your self-care and ensure you don't burn out, I think it's important for new social workers to know that they can also look for options that don't necessarily mean that they have to work full-time. And they can even have a side hustle that brings them joy and maybe even cover their expenses. I also think it's important to try to aim for the sacred trifecta when you're applying for a role. So you need to be aligned with the company's values and ethos, but it's also really important that you have a very

collaborative and supportive relationship with your team, but that you also enjoy working with your client. It's like that sacred trifecta. And sometimes that will happen, and sometimes you might get two out of the three, but if we feel like we're no longer feeling connected and aligned with the company's values, it's usually the nudge we need from the universe to move on and to do something that's definitely more connected and more sustainable for us. Sure. I can tell that you're the type of person to want to give everything to a student on placement as well. Is that something that you need to put some boundaries around?

Like I'll take a student maybe first half of the year and not the second. Is it something you still do? Spot on. You're exactly right. Yep. The great thing about it is that I can choose how many students I have depending on my capacity. Yeah, and what's going on. Yeah.

So I can have up to four of the first. five students at a time or sometimes I'll have one student. I guess that makes a lot of sense that you can have that overlap or many students at a time because you're not in there on the ground every day. You're that you're the fun aunt who's supporting them through the placement where they otherwise might not have that professional assistance. So yeah, I think that's a wonderful thing to consider for other social workers who perhaps are concerned that they don't have the time or the energy to support a student full-time, but they can perhaps be supporting someone who needs that extra level of assistance throughout the placement. Definitely, definitely. And the relationship that I

have with them isn't as formal as the one that they have with their agency supervisor. So I love that you coined the term fun aunt. It very much is like that. The boundaries that I put in place is the days that I'm available. So I'm not available every day of the week. But if they need something urgently. I always encourage them to text me and I'll always get back to them even if it's after hours if they need to have a chat with me. And then our supervision days are very set. And I try to make them accountable for doing that because I think that that's an important process that they should really take charge of and be accountable for. Yeah, nice. Do you ever miss working in an organisation? No, because I still do that actually. Yeah. Yeah. I actually found that

there was a point in my business where I was at a crossroad. And so my business was going to be either ready for another up level or an expansion. But I found that internally, I was yearning for something different in the form of greater collaboration with a team because I'd been on my own and completely self-employed for so many years at that point. So I realized that I missed working in child protection again. And I ended up getting a contract for an incredible organisation that provided supervised visits for parents for children in foster care and out of home care. And the work that we did was very significant and very important because our reports were provided as part of evidence during court hearings that resulted in neither family restoration or disproving

false allegations that had been made against a party. Parents that had lost custody of their children had the chance to connect with them under our supervision. And I also got to learn a lot through the foster parents and carers that I was fortunate enough to liaise with. The team that I worked with were amazing. And although the work could sometimes be challenging and heart-wrenching, the support and the collaboration was incredible. And that was initially a concern of mine, you see, because I'd been, I don't know, I'd been a lone wolf for so long. I didn't realize that I didn't know whether I could be part of a pack again. And I could. And it was incredible. And I loved it. On a personal level, I've got to say, Yasmin, it was my full circle

moment. It was almost like, wow, this level of work-life balance really exists. Where have you been all my life? So I finally hit the jackpot. I had the creativity. I had the passion, the freedom that I always craved. But the missing piece of the puzzle was the form of stability and financial stability that I had been missing. So it was very, very exciting. That's so interesting because a lot of other people would probably look at the load of work and the diversity that you were covering at the same time and think that sounds exhausting, but it sounds as though that provided you with so much energy. Yeah, it sounds exhausting if you do all of it full time, but if you do bits of it part-time, it's actually the equivalent to anyone else's full-time job.

So it sounds like I do a lot, but if you think about someone that works full-time and you think of all the different roles that they have within their role, it's pretty much the equivalent. happened to do some of it for myself and some of it for a contract. Nice. Now, did COVID impact the way that you work and the people that you support? What happened at that point, two and a half three years ago? Yes, yes. So I feel like we had the artist originally known as COVID and then we had version 2.0, which was the lockdown. So yes. Actually, I was very supported by the universe because before we'd even heard of that C word, that COVID word, I was headhunted to be part of a new

organisation called Carer Gateway that supports people that care for loved ones in the aging and disability sector, as well as people who are suffering with mental illness and addiction. So a week before the world in Australia went into lockdown, our training was cut short and we were sent home with our respective laptops and phones. And this was very significant for me because for the first time in over a decade, in maybe 15 years, I was not able to teach yoga. I wasn't able to officiate ceremonies or see my clients face to face. Now, although this was only temporary, it did affect my business. Now, my business, my private practice quickly bounced back and I found that the first year of COVID was the busiest of my life. It was significant for my private practice because I

actually wanted to move my business online for some time. But many of my clients were resistant. and the trajectory of my business has now changed so that all of my counselling and coaching in my private practice is done online. It's just the Reiki trainings and the retreats that are in person. The second year of COVID lockdown was harder as many of my clients were in very stressful and unsafe situations and as a worker, for the first time in my life, I found myself having to triage my own clients because I'd get simultaneous calls from police that needed me to come in and help with an ADO to a call from someone who'd had a full and had no family.

or friends around to assist them and someone else who was at the hospital because their son had just tried to commit suicide. And as you know, at that time, courts were inundated and children and women were in unsafe living situations. And it was a tough time for me as well because my dad had had a stroke and now required 24-7 care. So the positive things that come out of that COVID lockdown for many, not necessarily all, but many workplaces, is the understanding that you don't really need to go into the office every day. And organizations can see that their employees can be just as, if not more productive when they work from home. That's right. So you had just moved through a period of uncertainty and instability to where you felt you were able to find a good balance and focus on the

businesses when COVID hit. You were thrown into greater turmoil only to come out the other side busier than ever and on top of that supporting people who were experiencing significant trauma in their lives and relying on you for support. How do you look after yourself in that space, especially with as much as you do? I'm much better at saying no these days, which is the opposite of what I used to do when I was first starting out in my business. And I truly believe that what is meant for you will never go by you. Case in point, this conversation that we're recording for your podcast. Do you remember we'd arrange to do this a while ago, but we had to put a pin in it when my dad first got sick? That's right. Yeah. So I try to catch myself before I burn out. And to be

honest, my drive these days is to be happy. It's not necessarily to achieve like it was in my younger days. I also outsource what's not important. So in my private practice, I have an assistant, and online assistance that helps me with things that I don't have the time to do. And to be really honest between you and I aren't necessarily very good at, like editing and coding and all that sort of stuff. And these days I'm inspired by love, by nature, by transformation, by ingenuity, by ease. I'm definitely a retired hustler. My personal tells as well is when I'm feeling grumpy,

because by nature I've got a very cheerful disposition. or if I make certain mistakes that I wouldn't ordinarily make, because as you know, I like to be very well organized. And my self-care is just non-negotiable. So my daily meditation practice is for my mindset. And I think initially when I qualified as a yoga teacher, I was very austere about my daily practice. But like so many years later, it's just so much a part of me

that it just happens very naturally. So it's not something that will just be. just happen in the morning to fill me up for the rest of the day because when you do the sort of role that we do, it's not just about the morning. It's about scheduling certain breaks throughout the day to ensure that you don't just check in with your energy, but to ensure that you're also restoring and recalibrating your energy, especially if you've just gotten off the phone with a client that's navigating a significant sort of trauma. The other thing that I do is I'm much better at scheduling things because if I don't, it'll just never get done. And if I'm the creator of my own life,

then I need to ensure that I'm responsible for the joy. So I live near the beach. My life is simple. So a good swim at the end of the day always helps to clear the cobwebs. I also found recently that when I tend to work from home, I might work for a little longer because there's no train I need to catch or a pressing need to get in the car at a certain time to beat the traffic. So on those days, I'll either set a timer to ensure that I stop working or arrange to meet up with someone so that I'm accountable to get somewhere on time. And that ensures that I will stop working. But I do find I have to do that. Otherwise, I could just keep working and working. I don't know if you'll like that too, Yasmin. Oh, so much so. I, yeah, thankfully I'm pretty good at turning

things off. And once I've turned off the device, then there's nothing I can do about it. But I'm also really good at going to gym classes after work and going, you know what? I've disconnected mentally physically, that's all I can do. Yep, because when you're accountable to be somewhere at a certain time, you'll ensure that you get there. But if you say something flippantly like, I'll just go for a walk when I finish, that walk can potentially happen at any time, right? So I've got to set a timer or ensure I meet someone for a walk to make sure I stop working.

I think it also helps working in the same room as my husband when I do have my work from home days because he will say it's 12 o'clock, it's time for a walk. So he will get me up and out. of the chair. That's really helpful. That is, that is really helpful that you work from home harmoniously together. I think before we started recording, I shared with you that I had this very grave misconception about myself that I was this really fun and easygoing person. But it turns out when I work from home and you're in my space, I'm incredibly territorial and I'm pleasant to be around. You're just particular in what you need and the energy that you need around you.

I think so. I think I've just been so used to being in my own space, but now I'm getting a little bit better at sharing my space, especially when when someone is nice enough to make me meals and things that I wouldn't have done for myself necessarily. I'm very fortunate to adore my husband's company. And if we get to work during the day together, that's even better. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good that you become self-aware enough to recognize those personal tells that when you need to take a step back and reflect on what's important to you, that's not easy to do. And in fact, I'm sure there are many social workers who go their entire careers without having that worked out. Yeah, it's an ongoing thing as well. Another one of my

personal tells actually is when I get grumpy or cranky when I'm in traffic, because usually I don't care. Usually I'll be chatting to someone or listening to a podcast. But when I'm cranky, it's like, hang on a minute. The traffic was always there. The only difference is you and the way you're reacting to it. So that's when I'll say, okay. And it's usually, sweeping statement and maybe over generalisation, but usually when I'm too busy and I've got too much on and it just might mean that there are certain due dates that needs to be adjusted. Sure. Yeah.

So what are your current roles? What sort of things are you responsible for day to day? This is a good question. So I work full time, but I don't have a full-time job. So for two days of the week, I work for Carer Gateway, which I mentioned a little earlier. and initially it was in the role of a case manager where I ensured clients were connected to the services that they need before moving into a coaching position. And I finally transitioned into the host for a podcast that we've got called Carer Conversations. So you've been a big inspiration for me there.

And on the other two days, I'm dedicated to my private practice. And since my dad got sick and since COVID, that does not include as much yoga as I used to teach. And although I miss teaching it, I've also I learned that you can have everything you want, you just can't necessarily have it all at the same time. And supporting my parents is a priority for me, which is what takes up the fifth day. And that involves caring for my dad, giving them a break, getting their shopping done, ensuring their doctors and specialists appointments are taking care of, as well as advocating for what they need. And my wedding celebrant work is seasonal. So I tend to be busier in the warmer months while my private practice tends to ramp up in the colder winter months. So,

You're working to support carers while you're in a caring role yourself. The irony is not lost in me, yes. Do you find that it's helped in any way going through your own caring journey while supporting others in terms of maybe having additional resources that you can tap into? Yeah, definitely. I would say yes and I would also say no. So I feel like I started working for that organisation and then a year later my dad had a stroke. So I was surrounded by a lot of colleagues that had worked in the industry that were able to dispense very, very helpful advice and help me navigate the whole rigmarole of what I needed to get done.

I also find that my clients for the most part don't care about all of my qualifications, Yasmin. What they connect to most is that I have the lived experience and that I have genuine empathy for what they're navigating. But what I also want to share about that, which I think is important for all social workers to hear, is that I think that when you are sharing your genuine empathy, I think it's important to do so from a place where you've got a healed scar instead of a gaping open wound. Because I've worked in different sectors before, like domestic violence or child protection, where I've had a colleague navigating her own family violence. And it wouldn't have been appropriate to share that with our clients at the time.

same with child protection, navigating, you know, difficulties with your own ex. It's not always necessarily helpful or professional or appropriate to share. I find that in this role, me being a carer is the street cred that gives my clients the opportunity to really connect with me because they understand that having that lived experience is really important. The analogy that I often use is a little bit like when people first have a baby and they're surrounded by friends that don't necessarily have babies themselves. And their friends will dispense advice that is very well-intentioned and very well-meaning, but not necessarily very helpful.

So I think that's why I'm so passionate about carers being visible. It's usually an invisible role and it's usually a role that you inherit. It's not one that you apply for. So I find that you really need to be connected to other people that can understand what you're going through because they've navigated that space themselves and can offer very practical advice that's going to assist you. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about the carer conversation podcast? How did that start?

Yeah. I mean, in reality, there's only four categories of people in this world. Those who have been carers, those who are currently carers, those who will be carers and those who will need carers. And so it's a platform where, Carers in Australia can access information and resources and inspiration that can empower them in their caring role. So I interview guests from a variety of different industries that have got very specialized knowledge that can provide the tools and the strategies that can benefit our

carers. But most importantly, I interview carers who have shared their stories about their caring role so that other carers in similar situations feel less lonely and less isolated. That's actually why it came about. I want to make that invisible nature. of the caring role more visible. I want carers to feel validated. I want it to be part of the vernacular in conversation where people will say, so what do you do for a living?

And you can say, well, I'm a carer and it's something that is seen in the community so that other people realize how important it is. Yeah, that sounds wonderful. What other kind of stories can listeners expect to hear coming up? Yeah, so a range of topics from carers sharing their own stories, especially from the called LGBTQI plus and First Nation communities, to specialists that can provide helpful tips when carers need to access services such as my aged care,

NDIS, mental health services, specific information about maybe dementia or Parkinson's disease or stroke recovery, helpful guides for difficult admin tasks such as writing a will, naming a power of attorney or an enduring guardian, how to apply for carer payments through central link. Yeah, I have listened to all of the episodes so far that have been released and I find them really helpful to hear from different perspectives, even not being a carer myself. So I look forward to hearing these new stories too and I'll put a link to the podcast in the show notes so that people can find it and check it out for themselves. Thank you. And I'm thrilled that you've listened. It means the world to me. Thank you so much. They're very well put together and you can just

hear in the stories, the struggles, but also the achievement. So it's really beautifully curated in that sense. The genuine struggles are real to share, but so are the genuine triumphs. Because, yeah, it's like neuroplasticity. We need to see to believe that, you know, transformation is possible, right? But also with so many of these carers, they've got so many hidden talents and skills and strengths. And unless you're specifically asking those questions and giving them an opportunity to articulate what they've done, it's probably really hard for them to recognize it themselves. I know, I think so. Yeah, one of the carers that I interviewed authored five books, and my favorite thing about her, among many, actually, in addition to caring for her son that

was told initially that he was never going to survive his car accident, is that she never even finished high school. Yeah. Yeah. What do you enjoy most about your work? What do you love? Everything. Well, to be honest, I love that after many years, my private practice and my celebrant businesses run themselves for the most part. I'm not in a position where I feel the need to push any marketing. I don't necessarily want to have so many clients that it's not going to be sustainable for me. I also chose to have businesses that I wasn't going to scale. So it's not like I was going to scale them and sell them.

So I was always going to be connected to these businesses. So I think what I love the most, though, is that for the podcast, it's a little bit, like my do-over moment. So if I hadn't studied social work all those years ago, I would likely have studied journalism. And given how determined and tenacious I was back then, I probably would have become a war correspondent and had all sorts of gnarly experiences. And this is my way of living my sliding door moment, where I get to be involved in the writing, the interviewing, the editing, the producing process. So it's all still fresh and exciting for me. I have the flexibility, the passion, the creativity and the stability that keeps me balanced, which is, you know, my four personal pillars.

And I always had a lot of respect for what you do, but I have a deeper appreciation for how much effort you put in for this podcast, Yasmin. It's just, I know the work that's involved, and I have so much respect for how long you've been doing it and how much of an impact you're creating with this podcast. Thank you. That's lovely to hear. And it is a little passion project. and I think it's one of these things that gives me energy. Yes, it takes time, but it doesn't take energy. It's just something that I love connecting with people that I would normally have not come in contact with. I send all of my students to your podcast, all of my ACU students, because I think it's very beneficial.

I mean, I've been qualified as a social worker for over 20 years, and I still feel very inspired with all of the people that you interview. So I know that someone that's starting out as a social worker can certainly, benefit from all of the stories that you share so graciously. So yeah, very big fan over here. Thank you. I'm also very grateful to the people who take the time such as yourself to share their own stories. Oh, my pleasure. What do you find most challenging with the work you're doing? Probably when something happens to mum and dad. So like many caring roles, it's always unexpected. So for instance, my dad just got out of hospital again and only recently my mum was also sick. So I'm someone that really thrives when I'm juggling different balls because I enjoy the creative

inspiration that that gives me. But when moments like that occur, I find that I need to just take a moment and look and see where I can drop the rubber balls and make sure I hold on tight to the glass ones and not juggle. So I think I probably have to share that one of the flaws, maybe one of the many flaws in my personality, is this superhero complex that I have where I like to be the rescuer for people who are vulnerable and advocate for them. And I'm learning that not all battles are mine to fight, but I'm still a work in progress. Yeah, lovely. I feel like you've really found your niche with this work, but is there another aspect of social work that you might still like to explore or delve into? To be honest, I still think there's a little spark left for child

protection work. I don't believe I'm done with that sector yet. And when the time is right, I'd be open to going back. I'm always an eternal seeker, so I'm never going to stop learning, but I'm also a believer in ensuring that the time is right so that I can give my best self and make sure that I'm giving from a full cup. Yeah. Do you have an interest in working overseas again? I don't know. While mum and dad need me, I can't see myself going overseas, but should that chapter and that season of my life come to an end, I definitely see myself living and going overseas again. Okay. That's an interesting question. I'd never even thought of that. I just figured you make use of your additional passport. Why not?

Yes, yes. We don't want that to go to waste. But the timing wouldn't be right just now. If I were to go overseas, I don't think that I could go for longer than a month maximum at this stage. And even then, I'd be, I'd have to make sure that there were a lot of processes in place and I'd have a lot of backup plans to make sure that everything was okay with mum and dad. And I don't think I could do it for longer than a month, to be honest. Of course, that makes sense. If people wanted to learn more about you and the work you do, where would you send them? My website, which is just my name, so it's wwwpattikikos.com, P-A-T-T-Y-K-I-K-O-S. And if you're a carer or know someone that is a carer, carer conversations can be found on any one of your favorite platforms.

Are there any other resources that you'd like to share that might be aligned with your interests or your work? So even though this is probably the simplest question you've asked me, I actually find this really difficult to answer because I think that a recommendation is so personal and there are already so many amazing social work resources out there. I also believe that depending on your personality and your learning style as well as your interests, there are things that I might recommend that someone who specializes in research won't necessarily find help. helpful. But if I were to speak in general terms about social work, something that could be added to the social work syllabus when studying is to learn about how to navigate and understand our nervous system in terms of somatic therapy. So understanding how stress, trauma and other chronic negative emotions can get trapped inside our bodies and affect our mental health is one thing. But learning how to heal this chronic tension in yourself and others is a real game. changer. I think most of us know vaguely about the fight-flight response when we are stressed, but not much is known about the fawn or the freeze response. And I see it a lot with newly

qualified social workers, especially young women or even men that originally hail from other countries who have a different sense of what it might mean to be polite or direct. I think it's probably also worth mentioning that in general, Australians are very relaxed. We're a very familiar society, but having grown up myself with two vastly different subcultures, I mean, I didn't even speak a word of English until I was five and I was born here. So I understand how we Aussies can sometimes be a little bit too over familiar and possibly too relaxed, especially with swearing. And I sometimes like to use the analogy of being in a car and either giving way to a pedestrian or a fellow motorist and when they don't acknowledge you with either a wave or a smile or a thank you,

we can sometimes feel a little bit irked. And I compare this with social work because it's a little bit similar. Not all of our clients thank us or have a sense of gratitude that they have a capacity to even express to us. And it can sometimes seem like a thankless job. And this can occur for a whole variety of reasons, such as the intergenerational or system trauma that they've experienced, any ongoing battle with addiction or their mental health, along with struggles in neurodiversity that may or may not necessarily even be formally diagnosed. And this is just to name a few. One of my students from ACU was on placement at DCJ housing. And as she'd progressed along in her placement, one of the activities that she was tasked with was to inform a social.

service user that their application for emergency housing had actually been denied. Now, despite her initial training in de-escalation techniques, she was verbally abused and she was subsequently called the C word. Now, for some social workers, this is a rite of passage. But initially, especially for some people, it's a real baptism of fire. And in this case, she was an overseas student from Southeast Asia who ended up calling me in tears, not actually knowing, what the word means. So that was an interesting conversation I didn't expect to have. So we can work for an agency that can teach us about de-escalation techniques till the cows come home. But unless we are familiar with our own nervous system and how to regulate it, as well as recognize when it's deregulated

and destabilized, navigating these kinds of instances will be an unnecessary uphill battle. And I mean, I've just spoken about self-regulation. Co-regulation is a whole other chapter. And I think that when we're young, as part of this freeze-forn response, we are a little more prone to wanting to be light and a little more akin to people-pleasing or some form of codependence or even enmeshment through our own family system. And this might mean that we struggle with boundaries,

especially as women in society who are conditioned to be what constitutes It's a good girl and a positively reinforced for being a nice girl. I know it was like that for me in my early 20s, although I would have been loath to admit this at the time. Hindsight is a very beautiful thing as it offers us a chance for self-reflection. Now, the final thing that I'd probably like to share about this topic, Yasmin, is ensuring that we are following key leaders and especially leaders or ministers that we don't necessarily resonate with or agree with. At the time of this recording, Anthony Albanese is our current Prime Minister, who is quite casual in his demeanour and his approach, and he's happy to be referred by his nickname or his

moniker Albo. And as difficult as I find it to learn about Peter Dutton's views, and he's the opposition leader, reading about his perspective and chores, I'm not living in a bubble of delusion. And more importantly, as social workers and anyone that is a service user today, we're living in unprecedented times in the sense that we have key members, women no doubt, in Parliament who are representing our First Nations communities, our LGBTI+, as well as our called communities, knowing who they are and what they have to say is essential for social workers, not because they need our support, but because we need to understand how we can adjust our behaviours

and clear any of our own unconscious biases that we have, not only to continue learning, but more so to better represent our clients who we need to serve and advocate for. So that's a pretty long answer for a difficult question, isn't it? Sure, yeah. And is there anything else that you'd like to share before we finish up about your social work journey or what you do? I think I'd like to share that you can be really flexible with how you approach your social work career. So I think I had maybe a 15-year hiatus, even though I had my own private counseling practice, it will never stop you from having opportunities to explore other areas in your life. Like I became a yoga teacher and I had a wedding celebrant business. And so I had a big hiatus from social work. And then when I rejoined again, it was like I'd never left. So I think that you can approach your social work career in a way that is going to be lighthearted because it's such a heavy-hearted sector. And it can be so heart-wrenching when you're navigating so much trauma and so much depression

and sadness for people. I think it's really, really important to also connect to other aspects, whether it's in your personal life or whether it's another side hustle that is going to bring you light and joy because it's from that place that you can be of best service. When you're filled up and when you're rejuvenated, that's when you're going to be your best self. Yeah. You've certainly had opportunities in your professional life to delve deeper into learning and

how to navigate difficulties that arise, which was what you originally set out to do. And I can see how the academic side to your personality has developed into a passion and skills for supporting students on placement, particularly for those without on-the-ground social work supervision. But your idea to develop multiple roles to suit your interests and ensure a positive lifestyle balance, I think, has enabled you to have greater longevity and energy to do the things that you love without making you feel like you need to say yes to everyone at all time. So that comes back to your freedom pillar, I think. Yeah, I never thought about that. Yeah.

But you're clearly so in tune with what your body, your mind, your spirit need, something that I think we could all have a bit more of and focusing on your creative side to incorporate different modalities and learning to develop your own professional style. I'm just really looking forward to the release of more carer conversations, in particular sharing specific episodes with people that I support or even just family and friends for whom some of the content might resonate. So thank you again, Patty, for meeting with me and sharing your story. And I look forward to following your journey as it continues to develop. Yeah, it's good.

It's wonderful that we're in touch, Yasmin. And thank you so much for interviewing me. And it's interesting. You always see yourself through a particular lens. and then when someone reflects their own reflections back to you, it's always a privilege and it's an honour to hear what someone else thinks of you. So thank you. And I hope my cautionary tales can be something of a lesson for people

so that they don't make the same mistakes that I did. Thanks again, Patty. This has been so incredible. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Yasmin. Be well. And I look forward to hearing you again. Thank you.

Bye. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Patty, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Stephanie, who has worked in case management for children and young people

in out-of-home care and at risk of homelessness, as well as in Vancouver, Canada, to gain experience supporting people with addiction and comorbidities. She found an interest in writing and developing policies and procedures, leading to working on accreditation, social impact, and organizational transformation. Stephanie now works as the Quality and Compliance Manager at the Burdiken Association, where she manages a team of six specialists who work to amplify best practice for children and young people with trauma. I release a new episode every two weeks.

Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.