Social Work Spotlight - Episode 87: Troy

Episode Date: July 7, 2023

In this episode I speak with Troy, a Social Justice Advocate in Uniting’s advocacy team. He enjoys movies, asking people if he can pet their dog, American politics, saying unprompted that’s he going to join a sports team this year, social and economic justice, and adding to the pile of books on his bedside table that he never reads.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Roger Ebert - https://www.rogerebert.com/Breaking Grounds cafe opening article - https://breakthru.org.au/blog/breakthru-royal-rehab-open-fully-inclusive-cafe-breaking-grounds/Paulo Freire’s consciousness raising - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/social-reformation-consciousness-raising-theory-paulo-el-radi-ph-d-/The Fair Treatment campaign - https://www.fairtreatment.org/107 Projects - https://107.org.au/Nana Miss Koori - https://www.facebook.com/grahamsimms1969/The Making of SQuAD - https://www.peerconnect.org.au/files/6815/6136/8307/The_Making_of_SQUAD.pdfSydney Queer and Disability Group (SQuAD) - https://www.facebook.com/groups/1700325056695955/The Transgender Issue (Shon Faye) - https://www.penguin.com.au/books/the-transgender-issue-9780141991801This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16-7oyBSLaoB8Szz0hyg8kEEB7EZmaSngB6f50MGcUtc/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasmin McKee Wright, and today's guest is Troy, a social justice advocate in Uniting's advocacy team. He enjoys movies, asking people if he can pet their dog, American politics, saying unprompted that he's going to join a sports team this year, social and economic justice, and adding to the pile of books on his bedside table that he never reads. Thank you so much, Tori, for joining me on the podcast today. Really happy to have a chat with you about your work so far. Thank you so much for having me. Let's begin with when did you start working as a social worker and what brought you to the profession? Well, I am a fresh graduate, I guess. I finished my course in November.

I'm still yet to graduate officially. So, yeah, so just three months out, four months, whatever it is. Yeah, so how I became a social worker. I guess my journey to becoming a social worker as being a bit of a long and windy one, but from listening to your podcast, it seems it's common for quite a few people to have, to come to this Korean a roundabout way, which probably only adds to the richness and diversity of it, I guess. Yeah.

So I kind of want to contextualize how I got here by telling a story about myself. I kind of truly feel storytelling has profound power and galvanizing for change. and in telling our own story, we can find new insights and new ways of understanding who we are and what motivates and guides us. So from a young age, I was very interested in social justice issues. I think that might be quite common for a lot of social workers who go into this. But I kind of came from that from an upbringing in a working class family, parents who divorced when I was quite young, living in houses that were dilapidated rentals.

and a feeling of class inferiority that I kind of feel I internalized for a very long time. And laid on top of that was my burgeoning queer identity. And, you know, that kind of engenders you with a particular feeling of being on the outside, looking in. And I think that became an important part of my socialization and development. I don't think I grew up completely as myself. I was quite a depressed, detected teenager, a little bit emo in that mid-2000s way. Yeah.

Very reserved and shy. I feel like I played like a particular version of myself that belayed a sense of authenticity. And that was kind of a mechanism of self-protection against harm, against bullying, against humiliation. And I feel like much of my adult life has been spent unpicking the bits. of myself that are real and true and the parts that I had internalized in the name of self-preservation in a lot of ways. And you know, I feel like for many queer people, and I can only really talk to the queer experience here, identity formation is delayed a little bit. Like for me, I didn't feel like myself until I was in my late 20s and only in my 30s of I felt liberated and confident in who I'd

become and who I am. And I think that's probably changing a little bit, generation. I think there's a lot more acceptance now and there's a lot more queer pride in schools, which is great to see. But it's still a lot of things that need to be done. You know, I think in our 20s, a lot of the queer shame that we've kind of internalized starts to get shed. You know, the parts and the particulars about ourselves that we've hidden and repressed, performed, are pulled apart. And you know, that fight-or-flight feeling of self-preservation just gets replaced by a newly found queer abandon. It's what I would like to do. say like we just yeah finally it's it's so liberating and I guess I think if you've experienced a certain

level of marginalisation in your life and this might be different for different groups and how particularly on an intersectional level my experience is not going to be the same as other queer people queer people of colour queer disabled people etc but you know a certain level of marginalisation in your life it makes it easier to kind of see how things work and function in society and the flaws inherent in them and you kind of get the idea that the status quo is not working for the benefit of all. And I feel I'm kind of committed and chose to be a social worker because I think it's really important to keep asking why. And I'll tell you maybe a little snippet of just something like a related memory I have

when I was a kid. I don't know how old I was, but I was young. I think I just asked my mom with wide-eyed curiosity only as a child is kind of permitted to do. I asked why. Do you remember those world vision ads? Yeah. You know, they'd show the child with the distended belly or someone regaining their sight. Exactly, exactly. Really, you know, tough images. And, you know, I asked my mom, why are they starving? What's happening here? And my mom replied, because they're poor. And I'm like, but why? And she said, because I, That's just the way it is.

And, you know, we're just sit in that for a second because that's just the way it is. Like, I think that's where a lot of people go to. We kind of internalize the status quo. And in that process, we kind of internalize and externalize oppression. We permit it in some capacity. And I guess lingering on that notion of because that's just the way it is, I've wanted to always constantly come back to the question of why. And I think that is why I'm a social worker. And why in particular I like to describe myself as a critical social worker as well, because I am interested in the root causes of oppression, of marginalisation, of poverty, of homelessness, of all of these social ills that are harming so many people in Australia and around the world.

And I want to, yeah, I keep asking why. And when I do, I'm like, well, this needs to change. Yeah. And I totally get that people's capacity for compassion. is very limited. They're dealing with their own problems, but it sounds as though you've almost internalized that responsibility. Like you see it and you can't unsee it

and you need to do something about it. And social work perhaps was a way of kind of directing that passion or that drive to do something about what you were seeing. Exactly, exactly, yeah. But you've come into the degree a little bit later. What even sort of led you to that call? Yeah, as I said, it's been a long and windy road. Where shall I start?

Yeah, it's funny. So I did one of my placements last year with the Sydney Alliance, which is a pretty cool organisation that does a lot of great stuff in Sydney. And my mentor at the City Alliance, he asked me, oh, so do you have a 10-year plan? And I was like, oh, wait, what? People actually have those. That's a thing that people write down and commit.

to. So I've never had one. And I think that's okay. That's fine. I think I've had a rich, rich experience. I think I wouldn't be here without the experiences that I've kind of had. When I came out of high school, I was like, I don't know what I want to do. I had no idea. Alluding to a conversation before we started recording, I actually wanted to go live overseas in Japan and teach English. That was kind of my idea. But I quickly found out that it's not, if you don't have a degree of some kind, that it's not so easy to get a job in Japan teaching English. But at the time, and this was 2007, I think, China was about to have the Olympics and was really eager and keen to get people over there to teach English. So that's what I did. In Wuhan, of all places. Yes, in Wuhan. Yes.

Yes, of all places, it was Wuhan, which, you know, I used to have to explain where that was and... Now no longer. Now I do not. Yeah. So, you know, that was kind of a really important part of my history, I guess, part of really beginning to understand myself and what I kind of valued. And I guess, you know, at the time, I've always been very interested in movies and film and stories. and that only strengthened in China because everywhere there's like pirate DVD shops that you can go into and get all the movies.

So I had this huge collection. But, you know, I want to talk a little bit about my film is important to me in the sense that... Well, you studied media, right? I did. I did study media, yes. And that's kind of where this journey, I think, began, really, for me to get to the point where I'm in social work and I'm here.

Because film to me is an empathy machine. It's something that Roger Ebert used to say. famous American film critic. And it, you know, film grants you the opportunity and the privilege to see the world from different perspectives and to see other people's stories. And that is why, like, after I spent that time in China, I was like, well, I love movies. Maybe I should do a media degree. So that's what I did. So I went to Macquarie uni. I did a media degree, primarily in film, a little bit of journalism mixed in there. And through, Throughout that degree, it always kept on coming back to social justice in some capacity.

Like, I would thread that through whatever I was writing, whatever essay I was writing, it would come back to some kind of social justice issue, whatever short film that we were working on, I would be like, let's do this commentary on this particular subject or something like that. And, you know, to me, film can be powerful in your arsenal of social justice and social change. it's telling stories, often of marginalized people, often of oppression, often of these social issues that so many social workers work with and through in their daily roles and in their lives possibly too. So, you know, that led from there to just, I realized that in the Australian

context when it came to media and it came to film and TV, most of the work is in reality TV. And look, I love watching Survivor as much as anyone else, but I don't want to work at it. So it didn't, it wasn't a fit for me and I realized that quite quickly. So I'd worked as a barista throughout my degree. It was a barista for over seven years. And, you know, as a barista, you have conversations with people, you make connections. So much of social work is relational, is making those conversations is finding a way to relate to the people that you're working with. And you're also talking to people when they're most vulnerable. just before they've had their coffee.

So they probably tell you things that they wouldn't normally. Excellent point. Yes, most definitely. So I think being a barista actually helped me be a better social worker. All of these experiences have helped me become a better social worker and lead me to where I am. But funnily enough, through, like, I was working at a particular cafe in Surrey Hills that was a social enterprise cafe because I was like,

oh, yes, I can marry baristering with something, a little social justicey. And from that, connecting with people, making those conversations, I had someone that was what was called a linker. I don't know if you've heard of linkers before. They're from ability links. Yes. They were coming in, like part of the role is to like do some community development

around accessibility and inclusivity in public spaces. And they, you know, were going to different cafes and things like that and talking to the people that work there about accessibility and inclusion. And being me and being the social justice warrior that I am, they came in and were like, oh, we want to talk to you about accessibility. I'm like, yes, okay, what can I do? What can I do? What can I do?

What can I do? We'll get a ramp. We'll get a ramp. What else? What else? What else? So I was obviously a little bit keen, a little bit eager, a little bit earnest. And they, I don't know, like a few months later, there's a job going.

You should apply. So I did just that. And so I've had a really weird round of it. that way of getting into the community services sector. So I worked for Ability Links for three years and I had such a fantastic time and it was such a good program and there is nothing really like it now, which is so unfortunate. And, you know, through that I made so many connections and I got so many opportunities. I helped set up really great community group that's still running squad, which is the

Sydney Career and Disability Community Group. They still have a presence, which is, you know, amazing five, six years later. So yeah, I just had so many great opportunities and that was really positive experience for me. There's actually been something recent. So Royal Rehab, and Ride have, they've sponsored, they've supported creation of a new cafe for people with disabilities, accessible spaces on the Central Coast though, so not in Sydney. Well, I am on the Central Coast. Hey. Where on the Central Coast?

I'll have to find out. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I just saw an article about it recently and I thought, oh, very cool. So the whole thing is accessible, not just physically, but for people with other sensory needs. But even the coffee machine is adjustable in terms of height so people can work there from a wheelchair. It just sounds incredible. So yes, I'll have to find the details and I'll put it in the show notes.

Yeah, brilliant. Please do. I love to check that out. Yeah. But yes, there should be more of that happening. Yeah. Yeah. So when I came to my end of my.

contracted ability links because that whole program came to an end, unfortunately. I was actually feeling quite burnt out. It was an interesting space for me to be in at that point because I was a little bit out of crossroads. I actually wanted to at that time. So this would have been back in 2019. I wanted to do social work. But I was skeptical of being able to go back to school and work at the same time

and work potentially full time at the same time out of home. That's too stressful for me. So instead, I decided I would go move overseas again. That seems less stressful. Yeah, I guess. So point at the end of this, when I was feeling burnt out, I did get re-energized. When I did the community organizing foundations training with Sydney Alliance, that was like a two-day training and it gives you the fundamentals of community organizing.

And I'd just never been witnessed to that. that style of making change. And that made me realize that, you know, it just re-energize me. I was like, okay, we can do things. Like, there's possibilities here. Like, I need to just get out of my head and keep moving forward. So that was a good experience to have. But then, you know, then I moved overseas to Glasgow, Scotland.

At the end of 2019 in December. And I don't know if you recall this thing that happened a few months later. It was on the news, I think. I think it was on the new. I think I remember something, yeah. Yeah, it was like, what was it? Like started with C. Rhymes with COVID.

Yeah. Yeah, COVID. COVID-19. COVID-19. So the pandemic happened. Did you just have to abandon ship and come home? Well, I was like, at the time, I was like, well, this is just going to go over in two weeks. It's all good.

It's like we all did. We all did. So, no, I didn't. leave. I was like, I'm going to stick this out and just see what happens. So I did and I ended up getting stuck there for about seven months. I mean, not a bad place to be stuck. No, no, no, true. But it was just, it was a stressful time in those last couple of months because they kept on delaying my flight and, you know, running out of money so it wasn't the best. But you know, I think with that experience, I think a lot of us in general, started perhaps reassessing what we were doing,

where we were kind of heading with our life. And it made you value certain other aspects of your life more, reassessed your priorities. And I had a, you know, I guess had a particularly unique experience of that being in another country while all of that stuff was going on. And so that's why, like, when I came back, I had to move home. And I was like, well, I guess this this is it. This is my opportunity to go back to uni to a Masters of Social Work and leach off my mum for a couple of years. So that's kind of where how I got to where I am now. Yeah, yeah, cool. That's incredible. And what were your placement? So my first placement was with Sydney Alliance and that was pretty cool, pretty incredible experience. I really enjoyed that.

I think community organizing, I view as social work. I view that as perhaps critical social work in that sense. And that is where my interests lie. I want to be a small part of creating change at a broader systemic level and structural level. So that was a really cool, really great experience. Got to do lots of different little actions and things. And then my second placement was with somewhere up here on the Central Coast, it's a homelessness and domestic violence service.

So that was a little bit more front line. I was like working in the community center. And I was working out outside of one of the youth refuges. They have like nine different refuges, about five youth refuges. So I was working, I was shadowing the mental health youth worker, who was also a mental health social worker. She was incredible mentor. So I had a great, had two really good placement experiences. Yeah. Did you have much of an opportunity to do your own therapeutic work or was it mostly shadowing just because of the nature of the work? It was mostly shadowing. I did get some opportunities more. towards the end where I did like some mostly case work I have to say not a lot of therapeutic work

that I would have loved to have done actually when I originally finished my degree I was thinking I want to do frontline work I did want to do that first I want to do more of that work with one on one with clients in those settings some therapeutic social work that was kind of my plan you know I mentioned that 10 year plan earlier I was like I'll do this for like three to five years and then kind of move to some more of those systemic things. So then I've got this kind of background in working with individuals and I can really see on the ground how things work and how things function and needs to change. But that didn't, it wasn't really how it went. So as I saw a really good ad for a role at Uniting called a social justice advocate. And I have to just say that

is the most badass title. It sounds like someone who's just registered. your mind and gone, let's create a job role that is perfect for true. Exactly. Everyone keeps the same. That's true. And I'm going to steal a joke for my colleague here. I basically get paid to be a social justice warrior. Yes.

And I'm living the dream. I live in the dream. I want to come back to that 100%. But I'm also just in terms of staying chronological, it helps my mind. Yes. before you even finished uni, your last year you had the opportunity to participate in the international summer university program at UCLA. You were one of only two students representing, I guess that program, the way it was created or the way it was promoted was that you had two

students from the university who could go and represent. I happen to have also spoken with Gabby. I know. It's just such a small world that I just have to. I just have to. to have had the two people who have been in that program, but it's also a lot of pressure to be the representative. How did you find the program? Oh, I had such an amazing experience. It was really interesting. There was some tensions in the room, some things that needed to be kind of confronted in some capacity. We visited a homelessness service in Skid Row in L.A. If you're familiar with Skid Row, it is quite notorious for having a lot of people sleeping rough. Los Angeles is a really interesting place.

I'm having trouble, like, separating my experience of Los Angeles with my perception of it as a city because there are so many social problems. And those social problems are not hidden, like I think they are in Sydney. They're in your face. And so one of the things that they'd scheduled was a tour. So they used the word tour of this homelessness service in Skid Row.

and yeah there was a little bit of pushback against that so we had some really great Canadian students oh my gosh long with really really well and they were like no not not going they just boycotted it and I really respect that because it just it just it just felt yicky it just felt it didn't feel right like that we were going into this space and might add we were going there in a tour bus to essentially to a place that is a is a slum I'm using quotation marks there. So it just didn't feel right. You know, I went and, you know, we pull up in this big tool bus, get off.

You know, we're in a street so it's not, doesn't feel like, oh, I'm like, this is all right. This is okay. This is okay. So far. It's all good. We went through like an entrance and, yeah, we were just in a, in a space, in a room. And then there was, it's like, like, I think it was like the cafeteria space. So it was like the acoustics were terrible.

And we were all wearing these really, really tight masks, those masks that they, they, properly wearing hospitals. And so it's just like so hard to hear. You know, they started talking. They were introducing it and they were like, so we're going to go on a tour and the tour will start here. And on the tour, we'll go here. And on the tour, we'll go there. So, you know, it was a tour. They were trying to tell us it wasn't. It was a site visit and all of this stuff. So that was a really interesting, like, interesting experience because then we just, there was some of us that were like, we're not going to go on the tour. So we stayed back and sat in that space. And then we had like a mediation about it. And so that was a really good learning experience in its own way, in its own sense.

You know, the fact that we could have that opportunity to go to know where our boundary was in that situation and say, this isn't right and this is why it's not right because it's not reflecting social work values in some capacity was really powerful. Also seems kind of exploited. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I don't want to diminish what an amazing experience it was. that was just like one particular incident that happened. It was such an incredible program. We had these daily. So basically how each day was set was that we would have a lecture in the morning

from a particular academic of these nine participating universities from around the world. And they would talk about a particular subject. The first day was on decolonization by a First Nations person from America. Then we'd have like a work job. a discussion about it and then there'd be days that we would go to different events, different spaces. So yeah, we did that tour of Skid Row, but we also went to the Los Angeles LGBT Centre. That was actually incredible. That was such a good experience. Like we visited that space. And that felt really powerful because in comparison to the homelessness service that we visited,

it felt like there was community there. It didn't feel like we were intruding. It didn't feel like this was someone else's space that we were stepping into or a home or stepping over someone's home. It was like had so many different components to it. It was this organization that had social housing. It had community center. It had all these different spaces and art gallery. And within that, it also had the structure of that organization was really powerful to me as well because it would have social workers and case workers. And then it also have elements of advocacy and community organizing, policy and, you know, these really important frontline workers being complemented by the organisation's structure so that what those people, what those

social workers and case workers were doing on the ground would inform the advocacy, would inform the policy that would be taken, would inform the broader systemic changes that would be necessary to make sure that, you know, there are more social and affordable housing in a place like LA which desperately needs more. So yeah, that was really powerful. Like, yeah, I just, I had an amazing experience and I made so many beautiful connections, so many beautiful connections through it too. And, you know, we've since met on Zoom once, but I'm not going to do it again soon. So like just people from around the world, there was nine different countries. You know, Australia, obviously, Canada, USA, India, China, Hong Kong,

Israel, Switzerland, and I'm probably forgetting one. There was also a Bikina Faso who did not attend. And that was an interesting reflection, an interesting point of discussion as well. Because apparently the consortium, the International Summer of University of Social Work, ISSW, they weren't able to contact them. So there was a breakdown in communication in some capacity. They just weren't engaging. So I was really unfortunate that, you know, we had a,

We didn't have that African representation at this summer university, which had such a diverse group of people in attendance. Incredible. Yeah. And they spoiled us, spoiled us so much. They took us to, like, the Hollywood Bowl, which is like this massive, it's kind of like the opera house of LA, I guess, but like not inside, it's outside. I watched a live orchestra playing while the new West Side Story was playing.

So it was really cool. And then they took us to Mulan Rouge in Hollywood. So it was really fantastic opportunities there. And obviously something that you'll continue to take with you, whether it's from some surprising things or takeaways from the content, but also, as you said, the networking, that you just can't, you can't buy that. It's just this confluence of people that have similar interests,

similar values, but completely different backgrounds, that you'll probably maintain contact, for many years to come. Definitely, definitely. Yeah. Okay, I've derailed the discussion. Tell me about your work at Uniting. No, no, all good. Yeah, I mean, yeah, so, as I said, I'm a social justice advocate at Uniting. I had to kind of think about how to describe what I was doing, what I do in my role. There wasn't simply, write email, have meeting. The meetings are great, and my emails are fantastic as well, but there's a lot more to my work than that. So we have a series of cameras.

campaigns that we specifically work on in the role. And those main ones are fair treatment, which is about changing our harmful drug laws. We have climate change. We've got age care reforms that we're working on. We did some great stuff extending youth care. So extending the support for youth in out of home care from 18 to 21. And I think that's been one, which is amazing. But yeah, so that's kind of the context of where I'm working and what I'm working towards.

And I figured I'd just kind of talk about what goes into that, you know, what goes into a campaign, what goes into community organizing, what goes into advocacy. You know, so probably, you know, I'd start my day with, like, monitoring the news about particular topics. And so much of what we do is kind of is research-based, is understanding policy, reading reports, ensuring that you're somewhat an expert on the particular topic, although I don't think I'm quite there yet, but I don't think anyone is, can be entirely an expert. But from that, you know, we strategize for our campaigns and using particular tools. For example, we do a SWAT analysis that's kind of like about assessing our internal strengths as an organization, our weaknesses on this particular topic, on this particular campaign, but also we look externally at the opportunities we can leverage and the threats we have to come up against in that process.

Another thing that we do is kind of a power analysis, which helps us, map out where people and organizations fit in the paradigm of high-slash-low influence and high-slash-low support. So this kind of gives guidance on where to lead a campaign. So if we know someone is high-influence and high support, well, you better believe we're going to try and get a conversation with that person, but also like high support, but low-influence. But, you know, so much of what we do is relational and working with people and obviously grassroots in some capacity. So we want to have the relationships with those people

and make sure we can galvanise them when it comes to our campaigns and work with them to make these changes possible. And so then it's kind of about building a particular narrative message that kind of brings people in and on the journey to achieve this specific change that we're after. So as I was saying, social work is all about relationships. But perhaps the relationships I develop in my role

are somewhat different in that they're a little bit more give and take and perhaps a relationship we have with a client. So we do these things called relational meetings, which is in essence an opportunity for connection. They're about building trust and solidarity across diversity. So about threading our private lives with a broader public sphere and finding spaces for commonality so we can move forward stronger together. So this is under the framework that relationships precede any action that we take, any campaigns that we lead. And it's about building power before you use power. And it's a reciprocal process too, because in finding out more about what motivates and what guides us, we're better able to

come together to work and move forward with that. So doing that kind of stuff is really a core component of our work. And we do that with my colleagues, done it one with most of them, I think at this point. We do that with partner organizations on a particular campaign that we might be running. We do that with members of the public that have a stake in these campaigns and work with them in some capacity to make these changes possible. I guess core as well to what we do is consciousness raising. I think that was coined by Paolo Friere.

I am butchering his name, I'm sure. But I love that guy. And so that's kind of about building people's, understanding of how things that they experience privately have their root causes in public issues. Comes back to what your mum was saying about. That's just the way things are. Exactly. Exactly. And so this requires like some level of storytelling and inviting people to participate. And, you know, inviting people to participate is not a favour to me. They're participating in public action to address issues that may or may not impact them in some capacity.

So much of advocacy work is about taking a deep breath and kind of stepping into that discomfort and having conversations with people, framing their involvement as an action as beneficial to them and their broader community. It's an opportunity to be involved in public action for the common good. So I guess a good example could be, I might talk about fair treatment now, if that's cool. I really wanted to talk about this particular campaign because it's something that I am personally very, very proud of. and it was one of the things that attracted me to this role and very lucky to have been given the opportunity to be in this role. So fair treatment. In essence, it's a campaign about changing our drug laws,

which at present do more harm than good. Yeah. While also improving funding and access for treatment for those that want it. So the campaign has about 70 partner all supporting and collaborating with us, which is pretty cool. Yeah. So this kind of was born. out of, I don't know if you've heard of the medically supervised injecting center that's in Kingscross.

I used to work just around the corner. Really? I did. I actually did too. I used to work in Molymolulu. Nice. Yeah. So Uniting runs that. So this is an incredible life-saving service that recently had its 21-year anniversary. So basically how it works. Registered nurses and health education officers supervise drug injecting that would otherwise happen elsewhere, often in public and often under dangerous conditions. So the Fair Treatment campaign has been informed by their hard work and the people that engage with that service. At the core of it, we all want to live in a world

where everyone is treated with dignity and respect, including people who use drugs, where we have drug laws informed by best practice and evidence and where treatment is available for all those who seek it. I think this campaign in particular taps into some fundamental social work values that guide our practice, compassion, empathy, social justice, human rights, and solidarity. And tackling stigma. In tackling stigma.

That is actually a huge one. I guess part of this campaign is that we actually want to encourage people to have open and honest conversations about alcohol and other drugs with people in their life and to really reframe drug law reform as a health and social issue and at the same time increase funding for treatment services. You know, I think it's highly likely that social workers have worked with people who experienced drug and or alcohol dependency or have had clients or family members that have had dependency of some sort too. And it's important to know that dependency on alcohol and other drugs has its roots in trauma, has its roots in mental health issues, has its roots in disconnection from themselves,

other people and their community. Drug dependency is often an important. And impovertyingemently is often an perfect solution to pain. And so the stigma that is associated with drug dependency creates the conditions for people to not want to access treatment. And, you know, the way we talk about illicit drug use and people who consume drugs plays an important role in helping to reduce that stigma, which is why changing these harmful drug laws is to me a really personate social work issue. And I think it's incumbent on social workers to support in some capacity, which is why I have a call to action. And I assume that's not limited to, say, injectable drugs.

It could be even things like the rise in medicinal cannabis more recently. Yep. So there are changes afoot, but they're so slow. They are very slow. And, you know, that might be one of the frustrations with, you know, these broader systemic changes is that it can be really slow. But, yeah, there are really positive. things that are happening. Like we, the campaign and it's partner orgs and all the people that

help make this happen. They recently announced a, oh, was it $500 or $400 million? One of the other increase in treatment for drug dependency. Also in the ACT, they have actually, last year, they announced the Duke criminalisation of possession and use of drugs and small amounts of drugs. A bit particular about that, actually, a bit too specific. So it's imperfect, imperfect in ACT, but it's so promising and so galvanising and so heartening to see that I think it is moving in that direction, but it needs people to really push and support it. And yeah, again, to like really have those open and honest conversations about it as well. So a call to action. May I, may I have a call to action for your listeners? Are you responsible personally for these 70 stakeholders, or is there

a group of people that you're working with? No, I'm not. I'm not personally. There's a lot of different organizations that are working on changing these particular laws. And our campaign brings those together and makes it a unified voice and says, this is what we're asking for. And so we have a reference group as well of people that have experienced drug dependency. And they help inform the campaign as well. But yeah, like there's a team of us working on this. Do you miss the one-on-one work, their individual work at all?

or you're so in love with the policy and community side of things that it doesn't matter at the moment? Look, I do a little bit. I do. But I think about how working on these campaigns or working on these particular issues can kind of have that particular flow on effect of helping these people, helping people that I would have worked with one-on-one in some capacity, like to ensure that they don't enter into the criminal justice system in some capacity because of their drug dependency and the great harms associated with that. But yeah, I do miss the one-on-one.

But I think having the opportunity to do relational meetings and all of that kind of stuff is still threaded in. There's still an individual component to what I do is just not the same in that sense, if that makes sense. Sure, yeah. You've got time, you know? There is so much ahead of you,

so many other opportunities. I feel like every time we say call to action, I need to have like a little bell or a long goal. Okay, so apart from your call to action, what else do you love about your work? What's the thing that keeps you going? Amina, I love the relational meetings.

I think it's so good, like, you know, through my experience at the Sydney Alliance, I was with a cohort, a student cohort of 35 people. Most of them were international students. You know, at uni, a lot of the time, we kind of go off into our different groups and often the international students will sit together and often the domestic students will sit together. There isn't that cross-engagement.

I mean, I'm not, I'm generalising, but that can happen in these situations. And, you know, what I love is that I have the opportunity to work with so many different people from so many diverse backgrounds and build relationships with them and build commonality and build trust and build solidarity, and that's only possible through something like a relational meaning. So I love that. I really revel in that opportunity. Another thing that I particularly love is I think I really love

how this work reframes my understanding and my relationship to power. I think when people think power, they think negative. They think power over. They think very negative. They think control. They think abuse. They think these very negative. things, have negative association with the concept of power. But, you know, through this work and through,

even in my social work degree, there was this particular discussion around power is, is productive, power is an ability to act. Power is when diverse groups, people come together and say, we want to change this. That is power. That is using power for the common good. Leverage. Leverage, yes. Yeah, it just feels like, I guess, I'm part of something huge and that there is a movement and that there is change that isn't happening because of me. It's happening because of people organizing and coming together and forming a collective social movement that takes themselves to power and confronts it and says, what do you got? Because we've got this many people.

Yeah, nice. Yeah, so I really love that. What's the hardest thing about the work you're doing? I alluded to it earlier. It is that change is really slow. Yeah. You know, and when a win does happen, it can sometimes have caveats. And it can be super subtle.

Yeah. You're just like, it can be incremental. And those wins, you know, those achievements can be so much harder when you have particularly hostile governments in power. And so you're always at the whim in some sense. to that power. And as I was just saying, bringing those people together

who all agree in one room and seeing that and galvanising people for change is power as well. But it's also really hard to do that. So that's also another difficulty. And it's difficult to kind of help people understand that change is possible. I think we live under systems of power

that thrive on our inaction. that expect us to do nothing because they feed into the idea that we can't do anything. So we think the problems are too big. They're too insurmountable. They're too far off. What am I supposed to do as a single individual little person? But I think it's when people begin to understand that change comes through collective action, through collective social movements of people coming together to achieve that change.

They can really see the positive potential of power more than any other way. But it's kind of like how to get people to see that. Because, you know, as you were saying earlier, you know, we all have so many pressures in our lives. And, you know, finding the time and the space to kind of engage with something bigger than you, something political, something that is fighting for a better world in some capacity. It's both hard to find the time because we're all working really, you know, long hours. We've got other responsibilities. We feel tired. And, you know, that's kind of part of this project.

They don't want, you know, talk about some kind of mysterious they, but they don't, you know, they don't want us to fight for change. And like these pressures that we experience are not ours alone. We're all experiencing them. We're all experiencing some kind of external pressure that is beyond our control. And so, I guess, threading that into something that does galvanize people for change can be really difficult. How can I make you care as much as I do about this? Exactly, exactly. And maybe, and a lot of people I think do care. That's the thing. I think a lot of people do care. And, you know, I have the pleasure of being able to work in this space. It's my job. I don't know how much I would do outside of my work if I wasn't doing it in my work. Does that make sense? Like I, like I would definitely be still having a little rants and being very angry at things. But would I be actually materially doing anything? I don't know. Probably not.

So it's kind of like it's really tough, I guess, but also when you do commit to this work, it does kind of bleed into your life in some capacity. It just does because it's because it is just so, the issues are just so big and overwhelming, but I think there are issues that so many of us feel and know and know intuitively that, you know, something needs to change. And I would say it's dismantling capitalism, but that's just, you know, my socialism coming out. Yeah.

The other difficulty is in community, especially, you're slave to government funding. So you could have some fantastic ideas, and in a year's time, your funding is gone. Or you might, you know, it might not be as sudden as that, but you know that you've got a limited time to work on a problem. And if something is going to take longer than you have,

then you're never going to start. And that's what I found working in community. just, you know, how am I actually going to develop or build these plans when you just can't even get it off the ground? 100%. I feel that so, so deeply. It's like when I was saying earlier about Ability Links being that program coming to an end, it's just, it's perpetual. It's a cycle, isn't it? And it's like NGOs and community organizations and services, they're kind of, it means that

they're less likely to fight for systemic change. because they are under the whim of government. Their funding is at the beck and call of a power that they have to kowtow to in some capacity. So on top of that, it's because of this competitive tendering that we have, this particular system that means these organisations that are doing good and great stuff have to compete with each other for funding. So they're not working together collaboratively for the change that needs to happen.

they're being siloed and working in their lane rather than building power, as I was saying, which is why things like the Sydney Alliance is really good, because it gives those organisations an opportunity. It's like 65 partner organisations with the City Alliance, and that's community orgs, unions, NGOs, religious groups, community groups, civil society, basically, working together to create a sustainable, sustainable Sydney and change for the common good. And, you know, that's really fantastic. And I think I would say it would be more fantastic. There was more people in that, more organisations are part of that.

Because, I mean, at least then it's still a part of it, but they're not directly going to government, do this. And there isn't that threat. You can see on the ground, which might be harder to see from an outsider's perspective, that from a fiscal perspective, if you really want to look at it and drill down, you're pulling your resources. and therefore it actually is easier or more cost-effective for a government organization to fund a few of these organizations to work together rather than completely siloing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reaching to the competitor. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I do have to say one thing that is really great about uniting, you know, I'm going to bad out to my employer right now, but like, no, the fact that they even have an advocacy team and that advocacy team has grown, you know, I started a bit of. with two other people. That's unheard of. Like there isn't many big organizations that have a team dedicated to these kind of campaigns and these issues. And that's probably a really good benchmark or

framework for these other big organizations to kind of take on in some capacity. Yeah. If you weren't doing this incredibly meaningful and exciting work, you mentioned you have an interest in therapeutic work, maybe working overseas could be on the cards. Where do you want to go from here? Remember my 10-year plan? I have written one. I just emerged from it. I've kind of skipped five years on my 10-year plan. It's not linear. No, it's not. Nothing's linear. Honestly, nothing about my life has been linear. I don't know, to be honest. I'm really enjoying my role right now. Like I could see myself here in another five years, but I also could see myself really missing that individual work, that more really embedded in community and working one-on-one with people

because I did really enjoy that. So, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad that you found yourself in a place where you just really, the role was created for you. And you're obviously working with a great group of people, which makes all the difference. Yes, my team is brilliant. I love them. I know you've done a whole lot of other work, which I'm keen to talk about if you have time, but even just things like you mentioned the Sydney Queer and Disability Community Group and all the work that you've done through that, are you able to talk a little bit about? I'm thinking there have been so many changes around people with disabilities have been desexualized.

There's the intersection of the disability, queer, homeless communities that I find really fascinating. Yeah, tell me about that. and how that has informed your work as well. Yeah, totally. So back in 2017, I want to say, yes, I think it was, yes. This is a really interesting time. That was before the marriage equality vote that year, which is what, November. So, you know, I started at Ability Links and, you know,

came in with the baggage of my own perspective on things, of being a queer person, someone that's, you know, experienced mental health challenges and what that perspective brings to this particular work. And it was kind of immediate. I was like, where are all the queers? Like, can we do stuff for the queer, the queer disabled community? I was working at a particularly large religious organization at the time,

and so there was a little bit of conflict with some values there around the LGBTIQA plus community and this being a large religious organization that might have slightly conservative values when it comes to queer identity. So there was a little bit of pushback in entering this space. So yeah, so this is the context of when I was like, we should do stuff with the queers. And so, you know, I was working for Ability Links.

Ability was all about inclusivity. So it was a program about making society more inclusive for people with disabilities. And like, well, that's going to be. to include queer people because there are heaps of people with disability who are queer. In fact, a lot. And so I was like, oh, so we should do stuff here. So like, what can we do?

So it was kind of, I talked to other people in the, in ability links. There was definitely interest. You know, I had worked with people that identified as queer and had a disability in a one one capacity, talk to them, and there was interest in doing something in this space. So we're kind of figuring out what could we do? What could we do to engage community, kind of bring them out and see what we wanted to do together? So we kind of set up a working group. We're working with SSI, SETOment Services International.

So there were another provider that had mobility links to the program. And so we set up a working group with them. And we brought in a couple of community members as well. And we kind of just talked about what can we do to kind of engage this community. We understand that they're invisible eyes. There's so much stigma and misunderstanding about people with disabilities and their relationship to their sexuality and their gender identity. And so how do we kind of engage with this community?

So we set up a community event at the 107 projects in Redfern. So it was like it was kind of designed to be like a celebratory night of like queer and disabled identity and the intersection of such. And we were going to have a drag queen. We had an animus curie who was like, gone up into stardom since she's like she's everywhere that one she's amazing so she was kind of like our emcee and then we had a few storytellers so it was like this really beautiful community event in 107 projects it was really fun we had like maybe 40 to 50 people come so it's

you know pretty decent and so and through that we made the suggestion what if we could keep doing this and meeting in some capacity and yeah so that's kind of where that came from but the spicy bit. This was a couple of weeks before the marriage equality vote. So I'd been working for the organisation for about nine months at this point. And my impression was that, like, it's come about through its Catholic values. It's a Catholic lay organisation, which means that... I interpreted that to me that, like, there's more like, not great things

that perhaps certain segments of the Catholic Church would espouse about the queer community, wouldn't be reflected in an organisation designed to support community, people that are experiencing homelessness, people that are vulnerable and disadvantaged. So that was my impression. And look, I still think that's true. But because of the workers, because of the people that are on the ground,

working with individuals are incredible. To that as well, Ability Links was a program designed to be bad inclusion. So I was like, there's no trouble here. There's no, isn't there going to be an issue? Someone did flag it. Someone was like, oh, just, you know, with it being a Catholic organization, there might be some issues here working with the queer community having a event for them.

I'm like, nah, they'll be fine. So it was like a week before the event. Keep in mind, it's a few weeks from the marriage equality vote. And apparently it somehow was passed up management, senior management, to the CEO and then eventually to the board. And this got flowed back down to me, my little linker level. And we were told that we couldn't have the event. the logo of the organisation on anything, any material regarding it. When you're neutral in these instances of oppression, you're the oppressor.

You're taking me... There is no neutral. You're a yes or no. You're taking the side of the oppressor. So I wasn't very happy about that, but it all worked out okay because we just still had the Ability Links logo and had SSI logo. So all good. So that's a spicy part. And so from that, we set up some meetings with community members and just like it kind of snowballed from there. Like they kind of took it on themselves. And it was kind of the intent.

It was there. So we wanted them to own it, it to be their community group, them to determine where it will go, what it will be, what it will look like, what it will focus, how it will run and how it lacked. We were just there to support them in that journey. And so yeah, they met multiple times. I was there throughout a lot of that. I'm still kind of like, you know, since moving on from, ability links. I'm still kind of tangentially kind of dipping in and out and check how they're going. So yeah, cool. Yeah, it's fantastic. I think once they set up the Facebook group, it really blossomed because, you know, I think particularly for careers with disability, getting out and about can be, you know, a real hassle difficult sometimes because of our inaccessible infrastructure, not because of any

inherent issue with them. A lot of it has maybe perhaps been online, but they've met multiple times over the years. So yeah, it's lovely. It's an exciting thing to be part of. Yeah, yeah, it really was an exciting thing to be part of. And I think, honestly, it was a really successful community development project that is still running to this day. So you get no credit. I'd rather be spicy than bland.

Exactly. But having said that, I know that people within that organization have really made some gains and some strides to improve inclusion within it. I think, you know, perhaps my case, was an aberration in the sense that it was right before the marriage equality vote, and I don't, maybe perhaps after that, it wouldn't have been that pushback. But the fact that it went up to the CEO and board for like a little community event is just so absurd to me and I still can't get over it.

I also feel like there is no bad time to be advocating for that. Yeah. Or anything, really. Yeah. Why wait until there's a change in government? Why wait until there's a vote for something? Yeah, exactly. Mm.

Yeah. Are there any resources for either that, the projects that you've done, things that you can maybe shout out, and I can put things in the show notes for people to check out? Yeah, there is a case study I helped write that is online somewhere. It's like a guide if you want to set up a similar group. So yeah, that could be good to put in the show notes. Yeah. I would highly recommend this book by Sean Faye.

It is called The Transgender Issue. So Sean Faye is a trans woman from the UK. Here's when I prepared her. Yeah, and I'm realizing right now that podcasts are not a visual medium. Maybe I'll just read the first line of this book because I think it's incredible. I think it's incredible. This line, it kind of sets the stage and the tone of what she's going for. So the liberation of trans people would improve the lives of everyone in our society.

You know, and what she's kind of saying there is that, you know, for a community that is probably one of the most vulnerable, Australia, one of those most marginalized, maligned, misunderstood in Australia and around the world, particularly in the UK, they've got lots of issues on that front. Those issues, how that discrimination manifests itself is through higher rates of homelessness, higher rates of poverty, higher rates of job insecurity, high rates of suicidality, high rates of mental health challenges. And if we can look up to the most oppressed group in our society, we can envision a society in which we are all liberated from material oppression.

You know, does that make sense? Like, it's... Yeah. And so we didn't kind of get to talk about it. But like, so I went to this World Pride Human Rights Conference last week. And so this was like a three-day conference at the International Convention Centre in Sydney. It had activists. community organizers, people, social workers from throughout the world.

It also had a lot of businesses and things like that. And that's kind of where the tension for me for this conference came. I had an issue with the framing of how it was talking about these particular issues around LGBTIQA plus human rights throughout the world. When we're in community organising, we talk about there being three spheres of power and influence in society. We talk about civil society is one sphere. and as you know, community services, NGOs, religious groups, community groups, unions.

Another sphere is business, which is pretty self-exponatory, corporations, etc. And the third sphere is government. And imagine those three spheres having relatively equal power in society. Those spheres work in tension with each other. But since the advent of a social worker's best friend, neoliberalism, we all love it, And, you know, what came with that, austerity measures which has seen excessive cuts to social and community services and the erosion of the union movement, the civil society sphere has shrunked in power and influence, while business and corporations has bloomed. And I feel like this is an apt reflection of this human rights conference. I feel like it put the corporates front and centre, kind of kowtowed corporate interests and government in action, rather than.

than challenging them. It to me was an affirmation of the status quo in some capacity rather than something that was genuinely trying to challenge and change things. And you know, if you've been in Sydney recently, you would have walked the streets seeing rainbow flags and rainbow things absolutely everywhere. And look, part of me is like, I love this. This is fantastic. If this was a thing, back in the early 2000s when I was beginning to understand my sexuality, I would have been like much more comfortable, probably wouldn't have had this, that delayed identity formation I talked about earlier because I would have been like, well, it's accepted. I am accepted in some capacity. So, you know, there's positive to that. But also it demonstrates some problems that makes me feel

uncomfortable. And, you know, right next to my office is the A&Z corporate office. And they were decked down in rainbows everywhere. Literally, after the Harbour Bridge walk, which was amazing, by the way, which was like a pride walk across the Harper Bridge. They opened it and shut the cars and everything. I walked past the A&Z building on my way home. The rainbows were gone. They had vanished already. It was not even over.

Pride was not even over. And I'm like, what is this? So like, this speaks to... It's almost tokenistic. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, you know, I've talked about these material realities, these harms associated with the world as it is at the moment

under a system as pervasive and oppressive as capitalism. So that the conference didn't talk about class. It didn't talk about the context in which these issues of LGBTIQA plus human rights have to be four and one under. It didn't talk about how, as I was saying, transphobia, homophobia, intersexphobia. All of these things materially manifest in economic disenfranchisement, in economic disadvantage. And I think not talking about that is dishonest, I think, and it's disappointing. And it felt like it was cowtowing to the corporates in the room.

And I, you know, I don't want to diminish, like, the power of having a conference, a world pride conference with these visitors from around the world, some of them coming from countries, the 67 countries where same-sex relations are criminalized. That is so powerful, giving them the opportunity to speak to. the fights that they're having in their country is making me tear up a little bit. Yeah, the fact that our country can be a safe space. Yeah, exactly. And it was actually a good quote from Dennis Altman.

At one point, like, you're a country that can host world pride, then you're a country that doesn't need it. And that's probably a good point in some capacity. But also would it be possible to host it in some of these countries? Probably not. So, yeah, so I just want to say, like, there was a particularly incredible and powerful presentation panel on decolonization. and First Nations justice through a queer lens.

And there was a moment where one of the panelists, she's a Fafafini from Samoa, which is like a particular cultural gender identity. She talked about how countries like Australia or Western countries come into her country and try to change the laws around same-sex relations. And you know, in the context of one, these laws were colonial laws that were were brought from these countries into a lot of these Pacific nations. They weren't something that existed prior to colonization. So these harmful criminalization of homosexuality, etc., didn't exist until they were invaded.

And it's important to think about this in the context of, in 10, 20 years, a lot of these Pacific nations are going to start going underwater because of the climate crisis. That has been the direct result of inaction and impact of Western nations like Australia. So it was like, that was really like threading of like, you know, we talk about intersectional identity a lot. I think it's important to talk about intersectional issues too and to think about how issues compound and create conditions of disadvantage.

So homophobia, transphobia, compounded with capitalism and imperialism and colonization and how these things all mesh together. to create these really unique circumstances. So I don't think we can talk about one without talking about the other in some capacity. And so that's what I found lucky in this conference. And it was just a really unfortunate framing. They had a panel on pinkwashing. And I don't know if you know what pink washing is.

Pinkwashing is it's a strategy of distraction. It's the way, whether it be corporate entities or governments, will point to their supposedly progressive LGBT. BTIQA plus rights that they have in their country or how they work in their corporation while doing some really crappy things. Otherwise. So they'll be like, we're really inclusive of the queers. Great.

But you look into it and they have really unethical supply chains. Right. Bombing countries. So it's like, what about those queer people? They're in fact. They've really exploited their practices. They're not good to their employees. So we had this panel that was about moving beyond pinkwashing.

And it ironically became itself a panel about pink washing. How to pink wash your pink washing? Like it had on the panel staunch human rights defenders, Coles, Deloitte, and AMAX. Amex doesn't let sex workers use their service. Amex has probably, has exploitative practices within their company. Coles. My brother works for Coles. I know. I know they're not a great employer. And on top of that, you know, we're experiencing costs of living crisis right now. And, you know, Coles recorded a record profit this past year. And they've used inflation as a reason to rise their prices of their groceries.

That harms people, you know? And it's like, that harms queer people. That harms poor queer people. So it can't, to me, it can't be separated. So it's like, so it just became a really frustrating experience for myself. But, you know, we had, it was like a really good speaker from the Victorian Trades Hall. Will Strach, a staunch unionist. She was up against it, like with three corporates on the panel and kind of talking to these broader issues and contextualizing the queer movement and this connection to the union movement and how unions are one means of, like, building that collective.

not just for workers' rights, but for queer rights. And they have been on the forefront of that for the past 70 years back in the pink bands during Macquarie University when they were banning LGBTIQA plus students in some capacity. So it's like, to me, it just was a frustrating conference that just the experience of the conference itself became my takeaway, like my learning that there is so much work to be done. and, you know, queer movements have been captured by corporate interests, I think. And yeah, I want to see that change. Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you for indulging my rant. Thank you, Troy, for talking so candidly about what got you into social work, which is obviously a huge variety of things, experiences, reasons, even dating back to your critique of popular media and story. telling and how that's led you to this point now. And the common thread I'm seeing is this social enterprise effort of, I want to build community. I want community to be the focus.

I want to have a consultative process. And I can see that from all phases. So identifying an issue, research and consultation, developing an idea, call to action, da-da-da-da. awesome funds, following through with plans. You've had the opportunity at such an early stage in your career to be able to say, I've had that experience, I've had these ideas, I've been able to translate that.

And while doing that, you've been able to hold your identity, to build your identity as a social worker, but also understanding who you are, what guides you, and using those experiences to help develop the social worker that you want to become. So I think it also is a really great example of how important it is if you have the opportunity to build experience before you've even graduated. So what you've done is you've just let the wind take you and an opportunity has come up and you said, yeah, I could probably fit that in with my full-time work.

Yes, it's hard, but if it's a passion of yours, as you were saying, it doesn't really feel like that much effort. It feels like I was drawn to this and that the role was created for me. Yeah, the relational meetings that you were talking about, you've had the chance to build really strong relationships with people and that connection and the collective movement and the activism. But I guess my takeaway is you don't have to change the world. You just need to address the issues that are affecting the most marginalised.

and often that's enough. That is the best starting point. Yeah. To be able to identify that, to look to other people to help you with identifying and to then build your capacity collectively to be able to do some real good with that energy. Thank you.

Thank you for summarizing that so succinctly and powerfully. These whole experience has actually been really cathartic for me, like, I guess, really reflecting and thinking about my role and what I'm doing and how to make the best out of it. And that was a beautiful summation you had there. Thank you. Pleasure. Is there anything that we haven't had an opportunity to talk about, anything about your experience or you personally as a social worker that you wanted to share with people before we finish up? Look, I would love if the people listening to this were to go to Fair Treatment.org and just sign up to the mailing less and pled your support for this, I think, really great campaign fair treatment. You know, I think aside from that, I think my identity as a social worker is still in its

infancy in some capacity. You know, I'm three months out of my three, four months, whatever, out of my social work degree. So it's been a really lovely opportunity to kind of reflect on where I feel I fit in to this really diverse and beautiful field. And, you know, I listened to some of your, some of the previous stories and podcast episodes and, you know, hearing where so many social workers are placed and what the work that they're doing. And it's just so incredible and so incredible to be a part of this group of people that want to make the world a better place in any way that we can. Yeah, we're a pretty amazing group of people.

And I think often we either we don't have the facility, we don't have the opportunity, we don't have the confidence to tell people all the amazing things that we're doing. And that's one of the many things I love about this is just the opportunity for people to hear it and to say, yes, I have been the driver of change or I've been even working one-on-one with someone and what experience that has given me. And I love being a social worker. I love meeting with other social workers. I am so eternally grateful to you and to all of these. other people that have been so generous with their time and sharing their stories. And yeah, I've loved this little network of amazing humans that I've been able to build up. So thank you

again so much for this. Thank you so much. Thank you for all the work that you do. Thank you. Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Troy, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show.

Next episode's guest is Catherine, who has extensive experience in psychosocial disability and mental health through NDIS. She also has a degree in film studies and incorporates this in her private practice, where she provides a niche therapy modality called cinema therapy. Catherine provides counselling through NDIS, mentoring and mental health support for adult clients, their carers and families. I release a new episode every two weeks.

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