Social Work Spotlight - Episode 88: Kathryn

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

In this episode I speak with Kathryn, who has extensive experience in psychosocial disability and mental health through NDIS. She also has a degree in Film Studies and incorporates this in her private practice where she provides a niche therapy modality called Cinematherapy. Kathryn provides counselling through NDIS, mentoring, and mental health support for adult clients, their carers and families.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode: Refugee Alternatives Conference 2017 - https://www.refugeecouncil.org.au/refugee-alternatives/2017-conference/Centre For Refugee Research (UNSW) - https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/keywords/centre-refugee-researchBirgit Wolz and Cinema Therapy - https://www.cinematherapy.com/ACT Mindfully (workshops with Russ Harris) - https://www.actmindfully.com.au/Mental Health Academy - https://www.mentalhealthacademy.com.au/The Dulwich Centre - https://dulwichcentre.com.au/The Beck Institute (CBD training) - https://beckinstitute.org/NDIS psychosocial recovery coaching - https://www.ndis.gov.au/understanding/how-ndis-works/mental-health-and-ndis#psychosocial-recovery-coachThe Gottman Institute - https://www.gottman.com/Esther Perel - https://www.estherperel.com/Jay Shetty - https://jayshetty.me/My Care Space - https://mycarespace.com.au/Karista - https://www.karista.com.au/Clickability - https://clickability.com.au/Ideas disability information - https://www.ideas.org.au/The Relationship School (Jayson Gaddis) - https://relationshipschool.com/Kathryn’s website (KG Creative Therapy) - https://www.kgcreativetherapy.com.au/Kathryn’s Facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100089115775176Kathryn’s Instagram account - https://www.instagram.com/kgcreativetherapy/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NBdcdFsgpuKc2Xa85bMHistQ-Mn9Asybni6jZsq1j_U/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession in each episode.

I'm your host, Jasmine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Catherine, a qualified social worker and member of the ASW, who has extensive experience in psychosocial disability and mental health through NDIS. She also has a degree in film studies and incorporates this in her private practice, where she provides a niche therapy modality called cinema therapy. Catherine provides counselling through NDIS, mentoring and mental health support for adult clients, their carers and families. Thank you so much, Catherine, for meeting with me today to chat about your social work journey so far.

Thank you so much, Jasmine. I remember when you reached out to me, I think it was like end of last year. Yeah, I guess things have happened, but I'm really glad that we could do this today. Yeah, I'm really keen. I always ask firstly when you say, started as a social worker and what drew you to the profession? Yeah, so when I was growing up,

I initially I was interested in being a journalist or a teacher. I was just really into the whole communication thing and just helping people in the ways that I could. But then I think over time I realized when I started really getting into like humanitarianism and certain role models, I think I, and I know when people were telling me, oh, like it's very diverse and, you know, like every day is different. I think that really drew me to it. And I remember when I went to like an open day at Sydney uni, I remember looking at a flyer about social work and it literally had like a description where it was like, this is a very intense but rewarding profession.

And I don't know what it was about that, but I was like, I like intensity, I guess. I've always been drawn to that. So I was like, yeah, why not, you know, make a difference in people's lives, but obviously be challenging. So that really drew me to study it. And I really love film. So I decided to do a double bachelor's degree at UNSW. which I don't regret for a minute. Love that.

Was there something that happened in terms of humanitarianism that really stood out for you and kind of do you think influenced that part? I couldn't really pinpoint on anything specifically, but I think, because I've been on like a spiritual journey for like 15 years now. And it's whenever I tell people this story, they always laugh because like I wanted to be a nun when I was 15 and that dramatically changed. And I kind of just went on this huge like, it was like an Alice in one. underland kind of like, you know, I started embracing like all faiths and just really opening my

heart and mind to different belief systems. And from there, I think because I guess essentially all faiths say, you know, it is about giving and about altruism or whatever way we want to call it. And I think that was probably what, you know, supported my idea of wanting to make a difference as a job and like doing that every day kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So you kind of dove down different rabbit hole. Yes, it was a rabbit hole. Amazing. And I know you've described yourself in the past as introverted, intuitive feeling and judging. Can you tell me how that translates to your social work identity? Yeah, so I do identify myself as an INFJ, definitely with Maya Briggs. And whenever you see that coming up, it usually cause

itself the advocates or the like the counsellor, which is very funny. It's pretty ironic because I'm doing counselling now. And I think definitely advocate that really goes with social work because essentially that's what we do in this profession that I guess makes us different from other professions in whatever context we work in. And I think just having that enthusiasm and that passion and that really like grassroots kind of focus is something that makes our profession really exceptional and that's something I identify with as an INFJ and as a social worker. Yeah, nice. And what were your placements as you were going through uni? How did that all come about? And what did you take from that? So my first placement was at corrective services. So I worked in prisons.

That was fascinating. I had the best supervisor. He's amazing, still in touch with him. And I think that was like what I was really interested in initially. But then actually doing the placement, I realized that's not what I could see myself doing as a job. So I think that's why I guess when you try something out and then you realize if it's for you or not. But then the second placement was the placement that I've never forgotten, really, because it was with the Centre for Refugee Research, which was at my university, where we did research, but then we went on an internship to India. So we worked there for a few weeks. I was the only undergrad student there. Everyone else were master students. And we did

like community consultations with refugees from Burma, Sudan, Afghanistan. And it was, it was amazing. Like it was still, it's still one of the most transformative experiences I've had. And I guess that really kind of solidified my love for social work. And like it was essentially like humanitarianism, which is something I imagined myself doing since I was young. And just like meeting people of cowed backgrounds and working with UNHCR. It was pretty incredible. whenever I look back at that, I think that honestly was like probably the start for me. Like it was really the thing which made me realize, yes, like social work is what I want to do for the rest of my life kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. I've spoken with a couple of people who

studied social work in that end of the world. And the concept of social work is from their perspective not quite as strong. Like they don't have a strong identity. There's not a history of social work in those countries. Did you find it hard to really describe what you were there for and what you were doing? Yeah, if I remember correctly, I think, you know, initially the most important things, as we know, is like building rapport and a trust with clients. And because we were only there for like two, three weeks, I think it was like, yeah, two and a half weeks or something. It was very kind of rushed. So we had to be, you know, approachable and obviously for them to trust us with like what was happening for them as communities in India. And,

I think rather than telling them necessarily what we were doing, we were kind of just doing it, if that makes sense. Yeah. So we were obviously like, you know, overviewing with them, like, this is what we're going to be talking about with you and we want to get your feedback and your perspectives. And then we just do the consultations. And because you were so engaging and interactive, the people who we worked with were very attentive and they really enjoyed what we did.

So, yes. Yeah. And I think that's the point of social work as well, the fact that we are doers. Like essentially, we don't just talk about stuff. Like, we actually get things done. And that was part of the advocacy and the community development work that we were doing. But so often in research, there's a lot of behind the scenes and not always the, I see a practical, tangible outcome from what I'm doing. But it sounds as though that was pretty immediate the impact you were able to have.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I was very, very scared. because that was the first time I was doing anything like that. And we were in front of like maybe 30 to 40 refugees. And we were all presenting like individually. And obviously had like other people from the team just kind of supporting. But we got really good feedback. And I think like the resources that we were using from Red Cross kind of like really aligned with what we were trying to convey.

But I guess the main thing is that we weren't going there to be like saviors or say that we were we thought better than them. but the whole point was to get their perspectives and how they felt about things that were happening for them. They really valued that because we were really taking their opinions into consideration, and that was the paramount thing of the whole time we were there. So, yeah. And did that then influence, once you finished, you need the direction that you wanted to take? The refugee sector is something that I've always been really passionate about. I volunteered at the refugee alternatives conference.

2017, I think it was, and that was really insightful. But I think down the line, like, disability and mental health, there was something that I kind of, like, inevitably was drawn to. And I think it was mainly because of the lived experiences that I had with people in my life. At the time, like my auntie, she had Down syndrome. She passed away when she was 37. I have a few family friends who have different disabilities. And I think, like, somehow I ended up on that path. And I I remain on that path, and it's really interesting because obviously, you know, like it intersects with all other population groups that we work with as social workers because psychosocial disability or mental health conditions is something all across any area of social work that we find

ourselves in. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. With refugee work, there are so many instances where either resulting from the refugee experience and what they've been through or even just before they got to. that point, they've come with a disability or with a mental health issue and then their refugee experience has exacerbated that. It's definitely something that I saw in my work with refugees

and newly arrived migrants. So they're on a back footing even before they get started in a new country, which is so challenging. Exactly. There's multiple barriers that they face. And then as you mentioned with the refugee experience, but there's a lot of, there tends to be a lot of trauma. Yeah, it's definitely something, I guess maybe it wasn't such a stretch then. from going, like, you know, from like loving refugee work to eventually doing, you know, disability and mental health work. Yeah. Yeah.

So what were your first roles out of uni? So funnily enough, my very first role was in a corporation. So it was very different, not social worky at all. Okay. And I think I had to experience that in order to realize, like, really what my goals were and, like, what values I wanted to align with, with an organization. So I guess, you know, like with anything, I don't regret that. it was a good experience. And then from there, I worked in a safe house. And that was very, very intense

because it was like level three crisis, a case management. And it was only my second role out of university. So it was something, I guess, you know, that wasn't really manageable on my end, like emotionally and mentally. And that's something that I worked through and I learned so much from. And so, like, I didn't stay there for long. Then I eventually went into a role which started my disability in mental health journey where in this organization, I had like four different roles. And I was like multitasking, like really trying to manage many different things where I was helping like families purchase items to move into their new home, like really disadvantaged family, single parents.

I was also doing like an intensive family support program where I would spend like, I think it was three hours, three hours like for each family, four days a week or something. So it was like pretty intensive but like really, really love that. And I also, it was a transition to the NDIS. So that's where I really started to learn about all of that. So we were moving from case management into NDIS, which obviously, yeah, is like all billable hours. It's quite different to case management. And I was a support coordinator, which really kind of opened my mind to like this world where like everything is billable.

And you have like only certain amount of time that you can spend with people. people and it's like very limited, but you have to do the best you can to find the best options for clients. But from all of that, like with anything, like these challenges, I guess made me more resilient and like taught me so much about this world and about social work. So. Yeah. Yeah. The episode just before yours that's come out, I interviewed Troy. And I think you might have worked together at some point at Ability Links. Is that right? Oh my gosh, you interviewed Troy. Yeah, yeah. We did. We were on the same team. So look, hang on the second, ability links.

How do I know this? Yes. So I guess, you know, the listeners would be familiar at least with that program. But it sounds as though there was an interesting transition that was happening at that time between I am here to provide this very brief intervention with these families that really all they need is this settlement support. But I'm also trying to link them in and create networks with these services in order to facilitate. that. So that would have been a really interesting crossover. Did you have any other crossover between,

say, the people that you were doing the intensive family support with and those that needed the settlement or the linking? That's a really good question. When I think about, like, I worked with, I think it was like three or four families overall in this program. And I was the only one doing this work as well. So it was very challenging. Yeah. But the main thing that I found was that, you know, there were multiple barriers and there were so many like complexities that you had to deal with. And it was all about collaborating and not working in silos, which I think is so easy to do and kind of is like a default for many organisations for some reason. I guess I really learnt from their communication, collaborating, case conferences, really speaking to all people involved. And with the family work,

I guess I found my groove in working with family. So it wasn't just looking at individuals, but like their carers and their perspectives and then the siblings and everyone else who had something to say and obviously, you know, had their own valid opinion. So, was like trying to, you know, help with like informed decision making and, you know, autonomy, all the social work words. But yes, like, you know, really self-determination. But it really does come into play, like, all of these things that we learn. Yeah, like theory into practice for me, like really started, I guess, in this role.

And like this role that I'm talking about was prior to ability links, which also was a great role. And it's funny that you're spoken to Troy. I think I'm going to reach out to him now. I mean, as I said, before we started recording, it is such a small world. And it's just funny to see how all these pieces have connected. But it's a very interesting space that you were having to navigate between figuring out yourself how these programs are working, but also then trying to adapt that to a completely

new way of working with the NDIS. Yeah. What was the sort of feel from the organization's perspective around? Was that a good thing for the clients? How did they respond? Yeah. I mean, as you can imagine, a lot of clients, were pissed off, like, you know, because they didn't have as much time as they used to have with us.

And, you know, literally everything was billable. And I think, yeah, it was, it was a change that wasn't welcome for a lot of people, even for like my colleagues and, I guess, management even. But it was a change that we had to adapt to. So I think we all had to go on that journey together. And as difficult as it was, the point was to be transparent and to say, actually, like, this isn't easy for me either. this is just like the part that we need to go on now, but we would like do the best that we can and like and really show in practice that we are doing our best and that we are still communicating as much as possible with the clients. But even just the word clients moving to participants when it was going to the NDIS world. So like I still don't really call my clients participants.

I actually just call my clients people I work with because I think like that for me is just more inclusive and it's just it does kind of signify like how collaborative I am with them because like we do work together and we learn mutually from each other it's not that I'm you know I'm an expert or anything if anything they're the expert in their own lives and the problems that they deal with so yeah all the roles that I've been in I've learned I've learned so much and have really like been challenged in my work as well and I guess that's the whole point you become a better person not just professionally, but personally as well. Yeah.

Yeah. How long were you doing those four roles all at the same time? And how sustainable was that? Gosh, the four roles maybe, it was probably like months, maybe like six months, because then eventually it just transitioned to support coordination. And then I was just doing that near the end of my role. So once all block funding ended and we were like completely with the NDIS, then I was just a support coordinator.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And did that then prompt you moving on? Like, did you feel as though you had done everything you could with that group of people? Yeah. So for me, support coordination was something that I embraced at the beginning for, like, a little bit, because I like challenges and I try to end up to change. But then eventually it was like, oh, like, it's not actually something I can see myself doing

for a few years. And it's not actually social work. Like, it's, it's something else that I'm not sure. or how to describe it really, but I ended up going into Ability Links, which was more, it was more flexible and more interesting in different ways, which I'm sure like Troy has mentioned as well. Yeah. Okay, so from Ability Links, what happened after that? You moved on from there, where did you go and how did that lead to this point in your career where you are now? Yeah, so after Ability Links, I became an adolescent counsellor and family caseworker,

other way around. But anyway, yeah, I worked with adolescents and their families. And that was also challenging, but, like, very rewarding because I was able to provide counselling in schools and, like, partner with someone and also do, like, group programs. And it was challenging on another level, because I guess, yeah, working with adolescents is, you know, like, that's its own kind of work, too. And I guess I kind of, like, wanted to, like, jump in head first and, like, really try something different and challenge myself. And working with families was something I had experience. in, but I guess in this context, it was still a little bit different. And it was actually during the time COVID was rampant, and we were helping COVID families. We were providing, like, masks and

different, like, kits for them as well at the time. And I would, I would converse with, like, fathers and families and couples over the phone because they couldn't, they were in isolation. They were basically being quarantined. So that, that element of the role was, was really fascinating, too, because it was a whole new world that we were in. And, you know, there was no, like, face-to-face contact. We could only speak to them over the phone or, like, by video. And I think, you know, again, it's like we have to adapt to those changes that are outside of our control.

But I do love working with young people. And that eventually translated into my work now, too, where I do a lot of mentoring and I've worked with quite a few young people. And there's one particular young person who I've worked with for two years now since she was 16. Now she's 18. And we have such a great working relationship. And from the counselling role, I decided to work for myself, which was always like a long-term

goal of mine. So I decided to just like jump in head first with the counseling experience I had. And I did it. I took the risk and it's paid off even though it's been very, very challenging in many ways. But I've been self-employed for like nearly three years now. I basically, yeah, I do a lot of work with psychosocial disabilities. I do, yeah, mentoring and mental health. support or like informal counselling and my clients are so broad like my youngest client is 18 and my

oldest client is like I'm in her 60s and I really love that because like every day is different and you deal with different challenges together and it's you know people of all different backgrounds and ages and like different life stages which I really love that like I could never see myself just like working with a very particular group of people sure so I love that about my job now Yeah. And do you still have more of a therapy focus or do you get a chance to do some of those practical supports in the role you're in now? Yeah, so I do a lot of practical things. So whether it's like administrative staff or helping people get onto the NDIS, I still do that. But there is like a strong like therapy focus as well. And that actually helped me open up my private practice. So I've

just done that like beginning of this year. Like I guess I was preparing for it like. last year. But that's something that I've also looked into. And I decided to amalgamates my love for film and my social work side. So now I'm providing something called cinema therapy in my private practice, which I'm excited to tell people about, because a lot of people haven't heard about that, which I completely understand. Yeah. So was that additional study that you did in order to provide that? Yes. Yes. So I did additional study, like an online course. And then there's another course that I'm planning to do as well, just like additional professional development for it. And I've also been in touch with like the pioneer of it. And I'm actually on her directory,

which I was really happy to, you know, to be part of that. And then that's where my business partner actually found me. So he contacted me and I was like, I'm really interested to work with you. And so that's something that we've been working on together behind the scenes. So things are moving slowly, but also quite quickly. Like there's a lot of things happening that I'm excited to share over the next few months, I guess, and see where it takes me. Yeah. And tell me all about cinema therapy. It's definitely new to me and I'm sure to other people. Yeah. So cinema therapy is something that's practiced like in different parts of the world, but it's not really known here. And it's basically like using film as a therapeutic tool.

So like a film is chosen from like a resource list according to like categories. So like whether it's like mental health or like whatever things come up. And then we. we choose a film, we watch it, and then we kind of go on a journey with a particular character that the client chooses, and we see how the client transforms or is healed, how they grow on their journey,

because I guess in every film, there's character development, well, in most films anyway, there's some form of character development and like a character arc. So we look at like working on negative beliefs, building self-esteem, how film characters affect us

and how we discover ourselves through these characters. So through the whole cinematic experience, we kind of get like really immersed in it and objectively look at a character, but also see it as a mirror, if that makes sense. Right.

Yeah. I wonder if there's much crossover then to something like chair therapy where you're displacing, but also trying to connect or engage or empathise with someone that's separate to you but is considered part of you. Yes.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I was thinking about that too with chair therapy because it is kind of like an externalizing, right, like with narrative therapy, which is, which is something I'm trained into with acceptance of commitment therapy and CBT. But I think it's like a really creative way of, yeah, like you said, displacing and like externalizing trauma or like experiences that that you have and just being able to see a character and saying, you know, I have these things in common with this character and I can see myself as this person and I can be. go on this journey. And I can also heal. I can also grow. Yeah. So what would be the kind of person that you feel might benefit more from that type of therapy versus something that might be a little bit more conventional? Hmm. So I think, I guess something that's really important is that in order to do cinema therapy, it really helps if they love film. Because obviously, if it's a medium that, you know,

they don't really engage in, then there's no point. But I think honestly, Honestly, like cinema therapy is like good for individuals, families, groups and even couples. It's just something that people aren't aware of or is exposed that much. And for me, I know that, you know, it's important to find a niche in terms of like who will actually engage with it the most. But I think because film is such a universally loved medium of storytelling and of catharsis and getting in touch with human emotion, it really, it's something that like anyone can love. And actually people with Down syndrome and people with intellectual disabilities also really benefit from this type of therapy.

So I think any spectrum of psychosocial disability or disability or, yeah, just like anyone who, like with any mental health condition could really benefit from it. Yeah, super accessible. Yeah, it is. I guess the only disclaimer, and that's something that Birget Waltz, the pioneer, has on her website, which I'm happy to share as well. She says that people with like severe psychiatric disorders or who have experienced a traumatic event like very recently,

this type of therapy is not necessarily helpful. That's something that she just says and that's something that I have on my website as well. That makes sense. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting you talk about the niche.

She just reminded me of another wonderful social worker. I've spoken with Michelle. She has her own private practice as well. And she was saying that there are people that try to do everything. They'll say they do everything, but in doing that, they appeal to no one. Yes. So really interesting niche that you've found and an interesting, I mean, it's a specialisation, but it's a passion of yours clearly, which makes it more interesting in terms of how you then provide that support. There's always more material. I can imagine new things coming out all the

time, things that you can draw on in your work. Yeah, definitely. And it's something like I get excited about like on most days. I'm not going to lie and say every day because obviously like with any person who runs a private practice or being just being human like we have our off days for sure where we're not enthusiastic about anything. But on most days, yes, like this is this is something that I'm so excited about and I really hope it can be like a pioneering thing that Australia, Sydney can like get on board with. So I hope like you'll see more of me in other places and I guess like this is this is a really nice platform to talk about it too. So. Yeah. And it sounds as though from your early career experience, there was kind of that aspect of

you working in silo. You were the only one who was doing that particular role. Now you're working by yourself again, but you've got a business partner, it seems. What support do you require? You're reaching out on your own, doing really hard work. How do you sustain that? Yeah, so I have a supervisor who I've seen for the last two and a half years maybe, and I found her through the Australian Association of Social Web website, and she's amazing. I told her about this, so obviously when she gets mentioned, she's going to have a smile on her face. But yeah, she's, she's incredible because I think she was the one who really encouraged me. Like, she was a real motivator for me to start my private practice because I honestly had a lot of doubts about it. And there

was imposter syndrome, which I will admit to, yes. But I think she really kind of like inspired me and empowered me to be like, no, Catherine, like, you know, you have the skills. I mean, you have the passion. So like go ahead and you will learn as you go. So that's, you know, I'm really grateful for her. And also I potentially have another supervisor who actually specialises in cinema therapy and I'm really excited to work with her as well. And also I'm in touch with other social workers who work in the same sector or who don't. Also, I'm part of like different groups of people who are in private practices. So I think socially I network a lot, you know, and I go to networking events and, you know, I try to market myself, but also just show who I am, not necessarily like the work that I do.

And it's been really rewarding because I've met so many fascinating people on this journey. And even though sometimes it is lonely, because I essentially am working for myself and I'm my own boss, I try to find many ways as possible, like interagency meetings, talking to psychologists or that kind of thing. So I can continue, like, developing myself as well and putting the word out there. Yeah, from what people are telling me that contractor work and the having to troubleshoot by yourself and yes, you've got support, but on a day-to-day basis, you're very much by yourself. That can be really challenging in addition to having to promote yourself, advertise your work, value your expertise and your time and find those billable hours.

Do you find that's gotten easier as you've progressed? It's funny because someone told me a quote where they were like, if you want the fastest growth, start a business. So I think like for me, like it's very true because I'm learning so much about myself, my strengths, my weaknesses, like when I need to reach out. And sometimes like it is actually, yeah, extremely challenging. But definitely over time I, you know, started to find my flow and what works and what doesn't. And I'm always trying.

I'm always experimenting and I have this like really adventurous side where I always just want to like try unconventional things and like do things that I haven't heard of people doing before. And I guess like that's essentially why I'm doing cinema therapy. Like it's like well, I'm not going to just like do like conventional therapies. I want to try this. And if you, you know, like we'll see how it goes. There's no guarantee that will be successful. But yeah, I guess because I crave that novelty and that intensity, it's something that's satisfied through working in my private practice if that makes sense. Yeah. And is that difficult in terms of NDIS funding or does your funding come from different sources?

How does that all work now? Yeah. So funding for like cinema therapy specifically, when I provide counselling services, it's under like social worker therapy funding through NDIS and also private paying clients. And then eventually, you know, I might go down the Medicare route. But that was something that I, you know, haven't prioritised but that's definitely like something that I you know I'm thinking about going down like maybe in the next few years but right now it is NDIS and private pain yeah okay and what do you enjoy most about that work that you're doing now definitely the variety so just having like a diverse caseload every day being different and being able to travel so with my contract work and counseling they're they're both mobile

I don't have a clinic or anything, but like I actually like that because I like traveling, seeing people in the community in their homes where they feel comfortable because I can't sit behind a computer or like in an office for ages. And that's something I realize about myself. And being able to like support and empower people every day. My heart really flows. Like spiritually, it's very satisfying as well. There's a quote that Will Smith said out of all people, but he said, if you're not making someone's life better, you're wasting your time. and that's something that I live by, you know, subconsciously. Like it's something that I really, yeah, I commit to that.

Nice. With the NDIS funded supports, you mentioned the psychosocial disability earlier, which I know is a whole big bag in terms of eligibility. Have you seen many changes over time, given that you were kind of in that space when it was just starting to how it's evolved right now? So NDIS, I think, is a very complex system to navigate. And in a way, it feels like it gets more complex all the time. And it's just, it's constantly changing.

And, you know, when I started working in NDIS, it was something that was exciting in a way because it was new. And it was something like, okay, like, we can work out a way to, like, you know, resolve issues and to get things going. And then now that, like, you know, I have a few years of experience in it, I guess we need to, to radically accept that the NDIS will always be complex. And it's not something that will ever be simple or easy. And I think that's a reality that we face every day. So whether it's support coordinators or like participants or clients themselves, it's a rabbit hole. It's a part that we all go through together. And we just, we just try to like to make the best out of it as much as we can, if that makes sense. What do you think is driving that complexity, though? I would have thought after, say,

10 years, we'd have a better handle on things. I know, you would think, right? But even just generally, like, like, news that comes out and, like, when I speak to other professionals working in NDIS, you know, it's still confusing. And it's still, I think it's like maybe because it's bureaucratic or, like, there's a lot of, like, systems and processes and, like, paperwork, I guess, like, with anything. Obviously, it's positive in so many ways, but, like, I'm just kind of reiterating that it is. like a challenging process for people and families to enter and to stay in. But it is like so beneficial

as well. So it's like those two dichotomies that exist. Like we just, it's okay, you know, and like we can accept that and just like keep moving forward. Yeah. So it's kind of two sides of the same coin in the sense that it's grounded in a philosophy of choice and control and trying to provide appropriate supports that someone needs. But it's also very much sitting within an insurance model, right? Where there's that accountability and there's the need to be able to justify everywhere money is being spent. So, yeah, I think social work is probably quite good at walking that coin edge and trying

to be able to see from both perspectives how we can best guide someone through that process. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And again, like it goes back to the advocacy piece where I've done a lot of advocacy for people, even in the Ability Links role and in the role before that, where it was about even just helping someone get onto the scheme. And I guess it's about who you know as well.

So just really like finding the right people who are on your side and like working with them. So you can get the best outcome for clients. But it is a lot of like evidence and reporting and just yeah, like constant documentation. And you know, it's really great that there's a disability commission. Like I think that that's really important. and with ethics, which is such a big thing in social work, which it should be.

And I guess that's the thing. I do love the NDIS, but I also know that it's hard for so many people. And like most people, you know, anyway, like, you know, to me, like complain about it. But they also say, like, we're also so grateful that we have it. Like in no other context could we get this amount of funding to help us have support workers or see psychologists and go to groups, you know. I think like the two realities co-exist and I guess that's something that we just work through. Yeah, we're yet to find the system that meets everyone's needs, unfortunately.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Given that you do have that background in journalism and creative arts, is there ever any other sort of social work that's been of interest to you that you might pursue in future? Yeah, so I'm really interested in family therapy or like group work. So that's something that me, because my husband's, is also a social worker. Yeah.

I don't know anyone whose partner is a social worker as well. Really? Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, okay. We met in the job that I was talking about before Ability Links. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, we were colleagues.

We talk about so many things that other people would be like, what are you talking about, right? But that's the thing. I guess, yeah, I do feel fortunate that my husband gets it. And he's worked in different parts of the world as a social worker. And he's very experienced. And it's amazing because we can debrief, but also have boundaries.

We're like, we're not going to be talking about work because, like, we seriously need to stop it right here. Switch off. Switch off, yeah. But we are thinking about starting a foundation together, you know, eventually. And obviously I don't want to go into too much detail about that because that's something that we need to work on. But I'm really interested in family therapy and providing counselling for families.

So we'll see where all this takes me. Because I think I really love working with families, which, you know, I found through the job that I met my husband at. And then over time, it's like even now when I work with families, I just, I love that. Like, I love being able to see, like, such varying perspectives of the same problem. And, like, multiple problems as well.

Being able to solve them in, like, trauma-informed, person-centered and strengths-based ways. So finding solutions together and collaborating is the stuff that I'm really passionate about. Which other countries has he worked in? London, Belgium, and France. Okay, so he speaks French, it sounds like. He's French. Right, yeah.

Yeah. So interesting, because then he would be able to kind of reflect on the different ways that family work functions in those countries. So you can kind of take the best of what worked there or what didn't work and try to bring it to the Australian context. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, like I learn from him all the time and obviously it's mutual. But yeah, I would love to work in London, for example. I know that there's a huge need for social workers there and people say that it's a great place in the UK

to work as a social worker. So, I mean, eventually that's something I might look into. Or even in the Netherlands or Sweden or like those places, yeah. I would love to see what it's like there. Yeah. I have heard that the Australian social work degree is highly valued there in comparison to their degree. I think theirs is maybe a three year versus our four year.

So yeah, I get the impression. that England loves Australian social workers. So I'm sure if that's something that's in your future that that won't be difficult to achieve. Why not? Yeah, why not? We'll see where life takes us. Exactly.

And I think part of it is just keeping yourself open to those opportunities. And it sounds like you've had so many different incredible opportunities as you've gone along and you've just said, yeah, I'll give that a go, rather than closing it off and thinking, I don't know if I'm quite at that point in my career or, Yes, there's that imposter syndrome, and I think that's there with everyone. But just saying, I think I have skills that would be transferable here. Yes, that's right.

That's right. And I think that's why social work is so amazing because, like, there's so many skills that are transferable between different areas of it. So, yeah. Speaking of films, is there any media or film where you feel like social work is really accurately represented? I know that's a very left-of-centre question. I love that. I'm just, because so often it's just the we're removing someone or I'm thinking Lilo and Stitch coming in.

But, you know, is there anyone that really gets it right? Oh, okay, okay. So one movie comes to mind, but at the same time, it's actually debatable. But I don't know if you've seen the movie Short Term 12. It has Bree Larson and Jonathan. Anyway, yeah, but it's a great movie. So fairly recent. Yeah, like in the mid-2000s, I think.

but I absolutely love that feeling I've seen it so many times. I think part of it is very realistic because she runs like a foster home for teenagers and it goes into her own trauma but then how she kind of compartmentalises and then she works with troubled youth but she does so in such a beautiful, you know, inclusive way but then she has her own demons. So for me it's kind of like it shows that we are all human. We all have our own wounds. we kind of want to make other people's life better

because we've developed that compassion from what we've experienced, right? So it's also very sad because it shows her spiraling and then something else happening very negative in her life. But then it shows her resilience and her empowering a new young person

who comes into the home. So I think that I just love that film on so many levels. I wouldn't say it gets it really right, but it does get a lot of like reality right of like being, being a person, being a human being and doing social work or like working with people. So yeah.

You've just reminded me of another film called Precious. Don't know if you've seen it. Yes. I was sorry years ago, so I can't remember much. But I'm just like casting my mind back to, in terms of what's a realistic portrayal and Mariah Carey was the social worker and her sense or her feeling of helplessness in that situation really came through as opposed to I'm going to come in here and I'm going to change everything. It was very much her realizing that, yes, there's stuff here that I'm just not

even, I don't have the capacity, I don't have the resources, I can't even begin to unpack this. All I can do is be here to support if you're able to reach out. So yeah, no, that just reminded me, but I'm definitely going to have to check out this other film. I'll put it on my list. It's beautiful. Yeah. And I'm sure I have other examples, but I can't, I can't think of any right now. So, yeah. Yeah. But it does sound as though you've collected. I've selected quite a number of useful resources and even things like you mentioned narrative therapy and CBT. Are there any good resources that you'd like to shout out if people wanted to know a little bit more about the work you're doing? Yeah, sure. So in terms of training, I found like with CBT going straight to the source.

So Beck Institute do really great trainings there, which are very like, it's like you therapies yourself. So you're learning about yourself and you're also like seeing how it applies when you work with client groups. So that was fascinating. You know, Russ Harris, I think he's Australian and he's the founder of Acceptance Commitment Therapy or Act, and his workshops are great. And even like mental health academy have really great like refresher courses and just kind of short things, you know, if you want to have snippets of wisdom and knowledge and the Dulwich Centre, which I know that I think other people have mentioned.

And that really is like the go-to source for narrative therapy. And even just like counseling and therapy in general, so how I mentioned that I'd love to like family work or even like couples work. Esther Perel, the Swedish psychotherapist, I follow her. I think she's incredible. The insights that she has and the podcast that she has. I think it's called, what's it called? Something like where do we begin or? Yes, exactly. Exactly. And the Gottman Institute, which I know that other guests have also mentioned. I think they're like such leading researchers into like relationships and making them work. Jay Shetty, I know he's a life coach and he used to be a monk,

but I think that spiritual side just really kind of, that resonates with me. And in terms of cinema therapy, Birchett Walts, who I've spoken to personally, her website iscinematherapy.com. And she has like so many resources there if people want to check that out and like know more about it. And I have my own website, of course.

So, yeah, I can share that too. And I think if people want to know more of psychosocial disability and the NDIS, it'll be good to look into like psychosocial recovery coaching, which is a role that just in the last few years came about. So it occurred like after I was a support coordinator where essentially these people are support coordinators, but they specialize in mental health. And so I just wanted to shout out because I know quite a few psychosocial recovery coaches who are really, really great at their jobs and just so supportive and they really do intensive work with people on the NDIS. So I just, I know some people

aren't aware of that. So I wanted to just like expose that more. And yeah, like in terms of just like websites that are really good for disability providers and knowing what's out there, there's my care space, Carista and Clickability, where there's like reviews of organizations. So I go on to those quite frequently so that I have an understanding of who's out there. There's so many disability organizations that I've opened in the last few years. You can't keep track of them. Yeah. It's intense. Yeah. So I'd never heard of that website because I feel like so many people when they're just given a package or an amount of money and are then tasked with going off and finding someone to assist them, they're looking at all these people that you don't know what their backgrounds are,

you don't know what their experience is and how are you possibly supposed to pick someone. But it sounds as though someone's working towards making that a bit more transparent. Exactly. Yeah. So clickability has reviews and Carista is also like a directory of some sorts. And so is CareSpace. CareSpace has a lot of like articles as well and just like general information resources. And there's also IDs.org which I'm pretty sure provide advocacy.

Like their role have changed over the years from when I first I heard about them when I saw them at the Disability Expo, which I try to go to every year to update myself. But yeah, those websites are like the go-toes for me. I link my clients to them because it's like, well, if you want to know what's out there, you know, these are really good first ports of course. So yeah. Amazing. Yeah.

So it's almost like you've probably got a little fact sheet that you give to everyone that's like, here are the resources, the main things and, you know, update them as you need to. Yeah, yeah, because it's always changing. It's always updating. So we just try to keep track. Wow. Yeah. It sounds so interesting.

It sounds challenging, given that. that you've stepped out on your own and you're finding your place in this world, your niche and not just where your passion lies, but where your expertise lies and what you can contribute. Is there anything that we haven't chatted about that perhaps you want people to be aware of, anything about your experience or what you do in general that you'd like to share? Yeah, like, you know, I don't want to plug my business too much. No, please.

But, yeah, I do have like a Facebook and Instagram page. and my website, obviously, so, you know, anyone can go on to there. And if you're interested, like, reading my story and what I provide, please reach out. I would love to work with you. And if you love film, like me, if you're a film lover and a film buff, then, you know, I think it'll be a really fun experience, but also obviously very therapeutic and insightful. So, yeah, I'm just really passionate about film. Like, I can't even tell you.

Like, I just, ugh, like, I recently watched, I don't know if you've seen the series, Love Death and Robots. on Netflix. Oh my goodness. The last episode of the first season is like the best short film I've ever seen. Okay. And like I've seen so many films and I even have short films on my website. Like, you know, seriously, like my husband and I love film, but that film, like I'll be doing a review on that. And like I do blog reviews every month. Okay. Which are on my website. So yeah, like, you know, watch out for that and check it out if you're interested. But I recommend that to anyone because it shows you humanity.

Like in 10 minutes, it basically, like, it talks about the world, society, humanity, and life, like in 10 minutes. In such a profound masterpiece. Like, it's so beautiful. Do you write yourself? I do, yeah. Yeah. I've loved writing since I was like five. I've journaled.

I've written so many things over the years, yeah. So. I just feel like you could write a million short stories with everything that you've experienced. But maybe, yeah. or some novels or some, you know, self-help books or whatever it might be. It's just, yeah, there's so much in there that's just finding an opportunity for it to come out, I think, is the challenge. Exactly. Yeah.

Well, all of those resources are incredible. I will put those in the show notes so people can go off and do their own reading and watching and connect with you, most importantly. But really, I think it's interesting to see your development from those early disability and mental health days and how that tied into the refugee. context and bringing your love of film and supporting people to engage and connect with that medium while maximising the outcomes for the people that you work alongside. And maintaining that diversity of caseload, I think, has been really important for your longevity and to keep you refreshed and feeling as though you're excited to come to work every day.

And I'm really looking forward to seeing how the future practice ideas that you have and that translation of passions and that so many things that you're really keen to do will transpire. I think it's just given the opportunity in the time because you're still very early in your career relatively. But that's true. As you said, there are so many things to keep up to date with. Like there are new approaches all the time. There are new resources coming out.

But the importance of networking and being conscious of what you need personally within that space has been really obvious for me. in hearing about your journey. So I think the more you can reach out and the more people that you can help to build your tribe, I think, is going to help you in the long term. Yes, definitely. Thank you so much for the time that you've spent to share with me

about, you know, what you've been doing and your experience and your hopes for the future of the business and what might come from that. But, yeah, I hope that other people get a lot out of it and hopefully you'll have some more connections and people that you can work along. side and yeah look forward to seeing where it takes you thank you so much i really appreciate it yes i really had fun doing this i was very excited so thank you thanks again for your time thank you

thanks for joining me this week if you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or katherine please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight you can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Amy, an accredited mental health social worker, EMDR accredited consultant, and parts work practitioner, who is an enthusiast in all things somatic and creative.

Amy started her journey in child and family work and has experience within the education, homelessness, community health and tertiary education sectors. Amy co-owns a private practice in the Hunter Valley with other like-minded professionals and hopes others have the support and courage to work towards their dream roles. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you're notified when this next episode is available. See you next time. You know,