Social Work Spotlight - Episode 95: Rhianna

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

In this episode I speak with Rhianna, a Certified Humanistic Play Therapist and Interplay practitioner with Play Therapy Australia. Rhianna currently works as the Women and Childrens Crisis Counsellor with Coast Shelter. She values walking alongside her clients in their journey and supporting them to achieve better mental health and life outcomes after experiencing trauma. Rhianna has a passion for outdoor based therapies and using creativity in her approaches to working with clients.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Rhianna’s Instagram account - https://www.instagram.com/rhiannakennedy/Coast Shelter - https://coastshelter.org.au/Research and Information System for Developing Countries (RIS) - https://www.ris.org.in/Interplay Play Therapy Australia - https://interplaytherapy.com.au/Australian Childhood Foundation - https://www.childhood.org.au/Bruce Perry - https://www.bdperry.com/Tappy app - https://www.tappyhealth.com/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ha_mgQ2paix-BQRRp-99fKW-x6lbf-ESY5mqWjP8fY4/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Euror Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasamine McKee Wright, and today's guest is Rihanna, a certified humanistic play therapist and interplay practitioner with Play Therapy Australia. Rihanna currently works as the Women and Children's Crisis Counselor with Post Shelter. She values walking alongside her clients in their journey and supporting them to achieve better mental health and life outcomes after experiencing trauma. Rihanna has a passion for outdoor-based therapies and using creativity in her approaches to working with clients. Thanks, Rihanna, for coming on to the podcast and meeting with me today. I'm really keen to have a chat with you about your social work experience so far. Yeah, thank you so much for inviting me. I'd love to know, firstly, when you got started as a social worker and what drew you to the profession?

Yeah, so obviously social work is a four-year degree, and I graduated in, 2019. I definitely wasn't one of those people who kind of knew straight out of high school what they were going to do with their life. I sort of found my way to social work a little bit later on in my life. I've worked in various entry level like call center jobs until about my mid-20s when I decided that I wanted to make a change and go to university. So I actually completed what's called Open Foundation, which is like an entry-level thing on the Central Coast that they offer at the University of Newcastle for people that didn't get their HSC. So that was a great program.

It gave me the opportunity to get into university and provided me with the basics of what to expect and how to write academically because I've never written an essay in my life. So, yeah, I then went in to do like a Bachelor of Arts and it just wasn't sitting right with me. I think I did about 12 months in a Bachelor of Arts and I was just like, oh, it doesn't feel right.

I tried lots of different majors, but nothing really fit. So I went to an information session for, social work. And I just remember like walking into the room and just having this feeling of like this was it. Like this was exactly what I'd been looking for. And it was just, I just remember the passion that the teachers had and how they spoke about equality and advocacy and all of those things. And it was just like, yes, this is exactly what I want to do. So yeah, following that, I then enrolled for social work. I did my first 12 months with the University of Newcastle. and then I transferred online to Charles Sturt University.

So I think what really drew me to social work, though, was just that sense of like doing work that makes a difference. And, yeah, helping people to feel seen and supported. Like, that was something that I really wanted to do because, you know, so many people fall through the cracks. And I think growing up, you know, I was one of those people. I left home at a really young age and made a lot of questionable choices. So, you know, there wasn't a lot of support for someone who lived a little bit differently

back then. I, yeah, it wasn't very accessible and school didn't have a lot of the support structures that they have now. So I think that's what drew me to social work. When I actually reflect back on it was just that sense of being able to make a difference and see people who may be missed. And given that you didn't perhaps have the type of support that a person coming out of high school going straight into uni might have, did you find?

did you find going through the placement process or just adjusting to uni life particularly difficult? I think I was really lucky with Open Foundation that it gave me such a good foundation of skills to know what to expect. I'd never had anyone in my life who'd been to university and kind of navigated that process. So I definitely spent a fair bit of time like floundering around until I kind of found my way. But once I was into social work, you know, I knew it was exactly what I was. I wanted to do. And I actually started a certificate for in youth work at the same time in my first year so that I could kind of get into the field earlier because I knew it was the work I wanted to do. And I felt like on the Central Coast jobs had kind of been hard to come by. I knew that community

services and funding is very limited positions back then. Like that was maybe six years ago or something. So yeah, it was different. So I did that at the same time. which really helped me to kind of get my foot in the door with a lot of different places. What was the main difference that you could see in terms of what you wanted to work in having had that training and experience through TAFE versus what you were getting through the university? I found, because I was doing both my Bachelor of Social Work and the SERT for at the exact same time, I found that the difference with TAFE was that it was very practical. It was based on those kind of practical experiences and real, I guess, foundational skills, which was quite helpful for me because I am a practical learner.

So what that did is it helped, like you have to do a student placement with TAFE as well, which got me into a youth organization community service called OASIS. And that basically led me to getting a full-time job kind of towards the end of my first year as a youth case manager. and with that, that's when I transferred to do the rest of my degree online so I could work full time and study full time. Wow, that's a lot. A lot of people who are working and studying might do one part-time, one full-time or both part-time. How did you work out a balance to make that actually sustainable?

Well, you kind of have to get used to having no social life. It was definitely tricky and a lot of hard work, but for me it was worth it because I'm the type of person who learns through practical experience and I found you need to be quite highly theoretical in a lot of ways and a lot of concepts that, you know, had I have just been doing university, I don't know that I would have been able to fully wrap my head around it without seeing that practical implementation. So with that, you know, I was able to kind of base my assignments of real life experiences and kind of implement those concepts in a way that made it cement and feel grounded for me. So yeah, that was definitely the best way for me to kind of learn.

There was sometimes when I took a full load of semester and sometimes when I might have dropped back a little bit, but the work I was doing at Oasis, I was very passionate about. I was working with young people and it was just a really awesome opportunity. So, you know, I didn't wake up every day going, oh, I have to go to work today. I was always excited to get up and go to work. And then in the evenings, I would do uni work. So yeah, it was a big sacrifice. for a lot of years, but it was definitely worth it. Like I think that experience that I gained throughout my degree, like it gave me an extra three and a half years of community service experience

before I'd even completed my social work degree. So to me, it definitely kind of catapulted my connections and my experience to be able to kind of go into a job feeling much more confident because that is what I hear often from a lot of students is that they don't feel confident to do the work. And like my advice to that is just volunteer. Like absolutely put yourself out there and volunteer. There's so many organisations that are crying out for people. And when it came time to do your placements, I'm guessing something had to give,

something had to take a back seat. Absolutely. And I think that was one good thing about the University of Newcastle as they prepared you from, you know, day dot that you have placements to complete. And so I was always planning for that, you know, resign for my position, complete full-time placement and then maybe look for. a different type of work. Like throughout my degree, I did youth case management.

I also did some respite, care work and contact supervision. So that was always enough to kind of help me keep my foot in the door and try different fields of work and also just explore what I liked and what I didn't like. And so by the time you finished your placements, finished the actual coursework, I imagine that you did feel more confident than your average student. But was there still an element of, hang on, minute now I actually have to do the real stuff. What am I going to do? Yeah, my first job out of uni, I was like, oh gosh, what have I, you know, sort of got myself into? Like, it's always so

intimidating. My first job out of uni was a case manager in out of home care. So, yeah, it was pretty different to sort of the work I'd been doing before, which was kind of much more fluid and creative, you know, out of home care is a very structured and regimented kind of field of work where you've got a lot of heavy admin and boxes to tick and things like that. So it was different. And of course, it's overwhelming. You know, it doesn't matter what you do whenever it's something new. It always feels overwhelming.

You always think, I'm not skilled enough. I'm not good enough. You know, but all you can do is just show up every day and do your best by your clients. And so that's what I just always tried to do. Did you have any good mentors at that time, whether it was a supervisor or maybe other people that you were working with within the organization that kind of helped draw out of you what you'd already learned and draw some of that confidence out. Yeah, you know, I was really lucky that all the placements I did were well supported in the way of I had people that were also social workers around me who were always willing to, you know,

guide me when I felt overwhelmed or point me in the right direction for some different learnings or, you know, encourage me and remind me that I do have skills. And I think it doesn't matter at what point you get to in your career with social work in every role you question your ability and your capacity because you're always working in such intense environments where you do see some really challenging situations and people and you think like, who am I, you know, to be meddling. Like this is people's lives. And I think when you stop questioning that, that's actually a problem because, you know,

you are working within environments that it's people's lives, you know, and you have to remember your place and your role in that. So I think a little bit of imposter syndrome or that self-doubt is always good because it helps you strive to do your best. Yeah. And I guess as soon as you stop, as you said, wanting to learn and wanting to do a better job, that's when perhaps you've fallen into a rut of repeating the same things over and over again. And perhaps they're not, I mean, there's no correct way of doing things, but there are so many incredible new things coming out, new methods, new ways of thinking about things, ways of changing policy and shaking things up, that, you know, unless you're keeping up with that, you're just going to fall behind and potentially

cause damage, which it sounds like you've been really conscious of. Yeah, like it's really interesting to see such a big rise lately, you know, in trauma-informed care and trauma-informed practices. I think that's really come out a lot more over the last two years, which is really great, but, you know, it's one thing, I think, to use that language and it's another thing to embody that practice. And I think, yeah, like if you're not constantly reflecting on practice, constantly reflecting on your skills and your knowledge, then, yeah, like it is a problem, you know, because this is a field of work where, I guess, that ethosis scholar where you're always learning is so important. And if you don't have that, then you're really in the wrong profession.

Yeah. Was there a point then in that first rollout where you started to feel as though, yes, I've got this? What helped tick that over for you, do you think? I would say in the field of out-of-home care, because you have a client load that's quite diverse and wide, your first six months, you're just running. You know, you're just running from thing to thing and you're just managing what's kind of in front of you. But I remember kind of hitting the six month mark in that role of being out of uni where I just was able to focus on work. I didn't have to focus on study or assignments. I was just able to focus on work. And I remember hitting that six month mark and just going, actually, I think, like I get it. I've got this under control. Like you kind of

find a balance that feels good for you. But I guess, you know, that's, for me was also getting to know my clients, having that rapport, building that trust and connection with them, you know, understanding their histories. So I think, yeah, like six months was kind of where I hit a mark of like, I've got an understanding of where I'm out and what I'm actually doing. Yeah, nice. And that was probably a good amount of time for you to see, yes, this is actually something I want longer term. You've given it a good go. You've seen the opportunities that have come up for you for learning professional development and at that point would have been a good time to step back from it or to really sink your teeth into it. Yeah, I think you're probably really right with that.

Like the sinking your teeth into it was kind of like that was the point I was at the six month. Like there's always so much learning and growth no matter how long you're in a role, I think, in the field of social work because it is so diverse. And I was really lucky with the organisation that I started working with that there were a lot of opportunities for growth. So actually, when I was working there, I'd hit about the 12-month mark of doing case management. And I sort of was starting to get, I wouldn't say bored, but I guess there was, you know, an element of repetitiveness in that role. And I'm a person who likes to be creative.

And because you're working with the same clients, it's very repetitive. It's a long-term clients. I sort of was like, and an opportunity came up to go into clinical work as an out-of-home care clinician. So it was a maternity leave position, but it was a maternity leave position. but it was about just over an hour away from my house. It was a different office, but I thought, like, what a great opportunity to actually go into clinical work.

And I remember putting my application in and I was like, they're just going to laugh for you. Like, you've only been out of a uni a year. They're not even going to. And so, yeah, they called me for an interview and I got that position and I was just like blown away. So I definitely learned to, you know, put your hat in the ring and, like, value the experience that you do have through that opportunity. But it was a 12-month maternity role. So that was a really great opportunity.

Even though it was like a lot of travel, it was worth it to just get my foot in the door in clinical work. Yeah. And after that 12-month period, did you return or did you look for something else? No, I actually ended up being able to continue on in that role for a bit longer. So, yeah, some opportunity came up to stay but work from a different office. So, yeah, I stayed in that role. Closer to home?

Yeah, yeah, a little bit closer to home after the 12 months, which was nice. So, yeah, stayed in that for a bit longer. Okay. And how long were you there before you felt as though you needed to keep things fresh and challenging? I think I was there for just a bit over a year and a half. Okay. Before I sort of decided I wanted to take a break from the field of out-of-home care and get a bit more into community work.

because I guess working, you know, working at Oasis, Central Coast, you know, there's so much diversity. And when you're in out-of-home care, it can be quite limiting in a lot of ways. Like I had a really great team and some really awesome mentors, but the role, yeah, kind of became a little bit isolated in that, yeah, there wasn't a lot of links with external services or, I guess, community work where you're kind of building relationships and networking and things like that. So that was something that I just felt drawn back to do and just to challenge myself and start working with a more diverse range of clients. You know, I was very heavily focused in that clinical role on carer support and, you know, therapeutic parenting styles, behavioral and emotional support plans, helping manage, you know, big behaviors from really, really traumatized children.

And I think that field of work, you don't often see a lot of change. You know, the changes are really, really small and they're big changes for the client. but it can be very repetitive. But that sounds like it's more moving into counselling. Do you think that's probably accurate? Yeah, definitely. So that role was essentially a counselling clinical role. It's called therapeutic clinician in out-of-home care was the role.

Okay. And that sort of work, yes, it's very different to the practical case management stuff, but do you have more support around that? What does the clinical assistance look at? like as a team, do you work together with other clinicians or is this your caseload and you're expected to counsel these people and how long do they have that support through your team? Yeah, so in that role, basically how this agency worked was that they had a therapeutic clinician based at each of their site. So there's just one of you for that entire site and often

there's let's say maybe, you know, 78 kids in the program and you kind of have the responsibility to oversee all the behaviour and emotional support plans for the children at that site. That's huge. Yeah, any child that might have been on medication would have a behaviour and emotional support plan. So you would sort of oversee that support case managers with that, but then also have a kind of client load that you would do counselling with. And then there was lots of other different little parts, you know, in that organisation of little things that you would do.

But that was sort of the bulk main part of your role. And does that then involve working closely with GPs? Like who are the prescribing people is it psychiatrists? Yeah. So mostly case managers kind of oversee the little things like that, like appointments and things like that. But yeah, you know, we would have letters from GPs and psychiatrists. It just depends who the child was connected in with. But ultimately it was about connecting in with the car is to kind of make sure that they felt supported to manage behaviours, you know, hopefully before. child was prescribed medication, trying to support them to understand what happens to the brain when it's traumatised and, you know, why these big behaviours might be present and understanding attachment to try and get them to come from a little bit more empathy, given that a lot of, you know, carers are managing really complex behaviours and it's very, very draining for them. So there is an element of care of burnout and helping them to develop their own self-care routines

and what that actually looks like was often a big part of the role too. So you would work with kind of like the families as a whole or maybe just with the carers or maybe just with the kids. It was always really different. And there was a lot of flexibility, I think, to kind of meet them where they're at and kind of give them what they needed. So it was a really great role. And I definitely had the opportunity to develop my skills and my knowledge around trauma and

therapeutic intervention so much during that. You know, I just remember constantly learning during that role because it was just a huge step from case management into something more therapeutic. Yeah, so it was pretty cool. Was it isolating to some degree, though, if you're the only clinician in that site or was there a way that you could kind of get together and network with the other people that were in your role but on different sites? You know, definitely I would have relationships with the clinicians at the other sites,

but it still was isolating in a lot of ways. you've still got a team there. You know, you've still got a lot of case management there and team leaders and all of those things. But yeah, I think the manager of the clinical team really instilled in us to just pick up the phone if you have any questions. We would always share resources and things like that.

But it's not the same, I think, as being still a new grad, you know, in a position that's quite intensive where, you know, you kind of need to have a high level of knowledge around these areas. It's not the same as just being able to turn your chair around and say, hey, what do you think about this or, you know, what do you think of this presentation? So I definitely invested a lot of money into external supervision. That was a huge factor for me and like my growth. And, you know, it's expensive, but I would say definitely it's worth absolutely every penny to have someone that you can turn to to

talk about different elements and someone who understands the system that you're working within because you only get an hour with them and you don't want to have to be explaining like, oh, that's what this is or that's what that is. So I got myself an external supervisor who knew the foster care system and was able to kind of easily understand those concepts and things and then help me develop my clinical skills and approach things differently. And then what was the progression from that role to what you're doing now? Yes.

What I'm doing now is I'm a women and children's counselor with Co-Shelt. So Coast Shelter is a homelessness service on the Central Coast, and they also work within the domestic and family violence space. So I sort of just decided I felt like a change. I wanted a bit more diversity in my work. And so I applied for, yeah, this role and got it. So it's always so scary making a change to a new organisation. It's just never changes.

It's always a really intimidating thing. Yeah, I kind of really focused on youth through a lot of my work, throughout my degree or, you know, afterwards, I felt like I'd really focused on youth and children and therapeutic parenting. So I felt quite intimidated. But yeah, I was successful in getting the job. I've been with them for just over 12 months now. So I basically work across for women and children's refuges. And then we also have a domestic violence rapid enhancement program. So I sort of do crisis counseling across all of those programs, but there is only one of me. and it's a brand new role.

So they've never had anyone do something like this in Refuge before. So I sort of had to build the program from the ground up, which was unexpected. What a great opportunity, though. That sounds like a lot of fun. But you kind of want to know, you want to understand the culture of the organisation first before you try to build on what's already existing. Yeah. And I can say, you know, working with Coast Shelter has been absolutely amazing experience.

You know, such really innovative and creative people who are so willing to learn and adapt and consider things from different angles and make changes within their programs. You know, they've come from being just a crisis housing service, you know, for people for 12 weeks to actually offering people a program that if they want to engage with it, they can to get the supports to make really positive changes in their life, which I think is really awesome. So there is a huge element of, you know, flexibility in my role, which I think is critical because you are working with people who are in crisis, whether they've just left TV or they've been in homelessness for an extended period of time,

you really have to have that level of flexibility in your approach, because if you don't, you're not going to get engagement. And with that new crisis role, what does that entail? That's something I've never heard of before. Yeah, so basically what the organisation was seeing was that women were applying for, you know, victim service, packages, things like that, or wanting to access counselling in the community, but it was taking such an extended period of time because of wait lists. So people that were really in crisis,

you know, really depressed, really anxious, a lot of PTSD, they weren't able to access the supports that they needed in that kind of immediate timeframe. So that's where my role came about. So basically, I offer 12 sessions of counselling whilst they're waiting to be linked in with an external service. Some people see me for longer. Some people see me for shorter. It really just depends on the individual and their needs. Often kids will remain linked in for a lot longer. But yeah, obviously I am also quite limited in how many people I can see. And if I keep people linked in for a longer period of time, then that means when new clients come in, then they go without service. So it's always kind of trying to find the balance. So I left out of home care and went straight

into this position and then created the foundations of it, I guess, of what it would actually look like in the women and children's refuges and what was actually going to work. So they did already have a youth mental health worker for the youth refuges that they run. So I was able to kind of take some things from the program that she had built, but it was very different and the needs were very different as well. So, you know, youth refuges are staffed around the clock, whereas women and children's refuges, you just have workers there during the day and it's just a very different program very different needs. And I remember when I was working in community and there was an opportunity to go into

some of these refuges and offer things like smart money programs and different educational opportunities to them, is that something that your team does as well? No, so maybe down the line, but at the moment, I'm at pretty much full capacity with offering just sort of like individual counselling. I try to sort of facilitate some groups depending on the dynamics of the refuge at the time. Like often there's a lot of conflict. There's a lot of unmet needs and not a lot of safety. A lot of women aren't used to living communally either and it's really tricky when you've got kids and they fight. And so I do try to be adaptable to what the needs are. But the primary things that

I offer in my program is individual counselling and then some group stuff depending on, yeah, what the needs are. And are there specific places in the refuges where you go and you meet with them where it's like a quiet space. I'm thinking that environment's probably quite chaotic, right? Yeah, look, we're working on it. You definitely have to be flexible and it's all about the individual needs. Some women are quite happy to sit just outside in the sun. Some women want a quieter space. I'm lucky enough that I do have a clinical room set up at an office, but that's not accessible for all refuges. So, you know, creating space for these programs is something that's still new and still in the works. I think that's often what happens when you're working for an NGO, you know,

that is community-based. They're like, yeah, let's, you know, get this program up and going, but there's not always the foundational things that you need in order to effectively offer a service, like counselling. So I try to be creative, you know, a lot of my clients, we might do walk and talk. It's regulating for them. It helps them to get out of their rooms, get some sunlight. We might do walk and talk. They might access my private clinical room. I might, you know, ask the staff if they can leave the office and try and use that space if I need to. It's always very different. Yeah, which probably keeps it interesting for you, right? As though if you were stuck in an office all day or a clinic, you'd get tired of looking at the same four walls. Absolutely. Yeah, I definitely

love to be creative with my work. And, you know, some kids, I get the opportunity if they're, you know, maybe a bit hyperactive or, you know, I get the opportunity to take them down to shoot hoops in the afternoon after school. And we do counselling that way, you know, and for them, it's quite unfamiliar because if they've had therapeutic intervention before, it's usually been, you know, sitting down in a room where they feel really uncomfortable and it's not relatable. So I try to really find the interests of my clients and then connect with them that way because the reality is they're in crisis, you know, they don't have a basic foundational need being met of housing. And that's really tough, you know, so there's only so much you can do. So a lot of my work really focuses on that

safety and stabilization and, you know, how are you finding the refuge? What can we do? You know, some families we might look at implementing routine for them so they can manage a communal living environment. Sometimes it's just about providing them with a space to go, this is all really, really hard and, you know, to just get all of that stuff out because the case managers don't have time. You know, they've got massive client loads and they don't have the capacity. So that's where I step in to create that safe space for them and a place for them, you know, to maybe learn a new strategy or for me to just plant a seed about something that might lead a kid to want to get support later on in life, you know.

Yeah. What do you find most challenging? Obviously, you're very passionate about it and it comes easily to you to an extent because it's something you're interested in and you do have that capacity and that empathy for people, but it's really tough work. How do you get through that? I would say definitely having, you know, as I talked about before, like external supervision and a good team, like I'm really lucky that even though I am the only clinician, within my program across the women and children's services,

it's nice to just be able to connect in with them and have a laugh and find the joy in the little things. But I also think, you know, just being able to identify small wins. Like if a client comes back for a second session, you know, or six or completes 12 appointments, I'm like, I'm stoked about that. You know, noticing those small things that we often might take for granted because, you know, it's a voluntary service and these people have a lot going on and it takes a lot of effort for them to choose to show up to something where they have to be vulnerable.

And I think just remembering that and, you know, if I get a kid that, you know, might have had really low school attendance and they've started going to school one or two days a week or they're going for half days, then that's a win for me. So I think that external supervision, a really good team and yeah like you know spaces is is one of the really challenging things we don't have a lot of funding to create spaces for counselling like it would be amazing for me to be able to have a play therapy room at absolutely every refuge to offer you know kids play therapy and into play therapy and to do all of those things and you know I think one day that will become the norm because you can see the impact of programs like this and people just having access to safe spaces.

I hope that that does become the norm in the future. But so often those refuges are older houses that perhaps the service or the government own, you can't do much to that existing structure. You just have to deal with the space that you've got. Yeah, yeah, definitely. And as I said, just finding those kind of creative solutions. I am really lucky, which, you know, when I was first out of uni, you know, it was hard to kind of step into a role where you didn't have any guidance.

or you didn't have a high level of supervision and you kind of just like, oh, you know, maybe I'd be better off to go work with New South Wales Health where they kind of micromanage you and you get to access a lot of training and do all of those things. But I've always kind of been placed in these roles where there's so much scope. It's both been a blessing and a curse in a lot of ways because you have to be really driven to do your own work and do your own learning and manage yourself. You know, I don't have anyone questioning me on a lot of things. So I get to be creative, but it also means that I have to be really critical of myself and what I'm doing and the effectiveness of it.

Yeah, so to keep yourself in check, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. And to see, you know, what is the impact I'm having? You know, how can I service more people? How can I meet more of the needs that are going on, man? Are there many other social workers within your team? Yeah, we've got a fair few.

A lot of people completing their degrees at the moment. like they've done training and something else and then gone back to do social work because they can see the benefit of it. I've definitely seen social work evolve over the past, you know, five or so years. I remember when I first sort of decided I was going to go do social work, there was nothing. Like there was no information out there. There was barely any podcasts. You know, I remember finding a random YouTuber who was a social work and I was like, oh, what does she do? But now there's so much access to different stuff, which I think is really cool.

Like, you know, social work is such a diverse field. So it's awesome to see, you know, the things that you do because it provides people with understanding of what different roles are and what they actually look like. Yeah. Other than more exposure and more media coming out, are there any specific changes that you've noticed in the field of out-of-home care or refuges or child and family work for better or worse?

I would say I think there's definitely been changes. in the way that we approach therapy and intervention. I think, you know, we used to be so heavily focused on a medical model of CBT, and I think it turned a lot of people away because most of the time, what people need is connection and they need relationship. And so I have noticed a shift, I guess, in organisations, kind of stepping away from that model to have something that is a little bit more adaptable and is a little bit more personal.

which I think is really awesome. And yeah, I guess Coast Shelter is kind of leading edge in the way that they are developing their clinical team and the growth that I've seen in that organization just in the clinical team. You know, we went from not having a manager to now we have a full-time clinical service manager. So I think organizations like CoS Shelter

see the need and they create roles that are going to meet that need and then they review them effectively. So I hope a lot of other organisations, are doing the same. That's so refreshing, just seeing the responsiveness and the willingness of an organisation to adapt what it's doing based on what it's seeing. Yeah, absolutely. Where would you like it to go?

Where would you like to see this type of social work or this field of practice heading? I would love for there to be like a therapeutic clinician at each refuge because to have that element of flexibility to just be able to, you know, put the kettle on for a client who might be really hesitant to engage and to just say, you know, I'm up here in a clinical room, like having a clinical room at every refuge would be great. And, you know, having a clinician there and just having that flexibility to say, hey, I'm up here, the kettle's on, you know, come drop in for a cup. Like I've heard you've had a tough week. That sort of relational capacity is really tricky when you're spread so thin, but it's actually where the needs really do get met and how you can

kind of adapt the program to the needs of that specific house because they're also different and the dynamics are always so different. And it changes as soon as the people change. So that is the one thing I hear from clients all the time is like, I wish I could see you more. I wish I could access you more. So it would be nice to be able to see that in the future, you know, one of a social worker at every single refuge, you know, helping case managers to have a more trauma-informed lens or to consider, you know, clients presenting symptoms and things like that. You must go through so many cups of coffee a day or cups of tea, just sitting down and working with your clients.

Yeah, I do love tea. And I try to have things like that, like when they come into the room, but it's just resources. Like, it's really tricky when you don't have a set-up space to actually. offer fully what you imagine that you could offer to people. I'm quite lucky at some refuges. You know, I do have a space and I can be creative with that. But then at other ones, it's a bit tricky. So, yeah. But I make it known to upper management when they're talking about the future. I'm like, this is what we need. So I think that advocacy still comes into it a lot, you know.

And are there any other areas of social work that you've heard about or you've considered just that you thought, you know, I would be really interested in trying that one day. Obviously, you're really happy doing what you're doing now, but even if it means you get to do additional training and counselling, for instance. I don't actually know. I've never actually thought about that. There's definitely so many things I want to learn more about. One of my really big passions is like ecotherapy.

So using nature, adventure therapy, the outside world. You know, I'd absolutely love to like develop an adventure therapy based. program for women and children who've experienced domestic and family violence and, you know, doing things like that. But as far as like other organisations and roles, yeah, I don't actually know. Was there something different that you did in your placements that you're not using so much now and perhaps that could be something you could tie back in? No, I kind of got positions out of all of my placements. I was lucky enough to sort of be offered to stay. So, you know, my placement was out of home care. I got a case management job in out of home care. So I have always. I have always,

had a lot of curiosity around what it would be like to work with a government organization, especially, you know, within their counselling roles, like, what does that actually look like? And I think positions like that can give you such a good foundational knowledge. And I've missed having that a lot, you know, going into positions that have been maybe a little bit above my capacity in some ways, stepping into spaces that don't have a foundation, you know, that don't have a plan laid out for you, whereas it seems like, you know, New South Wales Health and places like that are really structured. So it would have been cool, like headspace, I think would have just been amazing to work at, you know, organisations like RIS. I love the youth work stuff and being

creative and innovative. And I think, you know, you'd get such a good foundational training in jobs like that. Yeah. But given that you've been a bit of a leader, a trailblazer in this particular area, if that funding does come up, if those programs do get additional capacity, I'm sure they will come to you and say, how do? Like, you made this work, you developed this way of working. And that's really cool to think of that you could be a mentor to other people who are wanting to do something similar. Yeah, and I connect with the students so much when they come in for placement because I remember what it's like still. Like, I don't think that ever leaves you that feeling of just like, where do I go and what do I do? And there's so much different opportunity and it all feels so

overwhelming. But I think doors open for you where they're supposed to and they stay closed when you're not supposed to go in. So, you know, I guess I've been really lucky that doors have opened for me and led me to a place that I'm really satisfied in working in. And I hope that everyone else gets that same experience. But yeah, I think just when you're a student, you know, just soak up all of the experiences and opportunities that you can. You know, I remember in my degree, they make you do like role plays and things like that. I don't know if you remember those. Oh,

but I was like, slightly traumatized. Yeah, but I think back now and I'm like, you never get the opportunity to practice your skills in an environment that's just dedicated to learning once you leave uni. So I think that was such a great opportunity. I wish I took more advantage of it.

It'll come again. I mean, wherever you do training, assuming the training is really good, the educator is good. they will probably throw you into roleplay. I'm just thinking my years. We're pointing it already.

Health. Yeah. You will absolutely be invited to participate in anything new. Apply it straight away and it's going to send out. So, yeah, no, you will, I see much more roleplay in your future. Yeah. I just think, you know, when you're a student, like, it's such a good opportunity to just really trial things out.

And as I said before, like volunteering, you know, put yourself out there. Like your connections and the relationships that you build, even with the other students at your university. Like there's so many people now that, you know, I might need a favor from or I might need to get a, you know, a kid into get an assessment for something. And so I remember the people where they're working now and it's connections for you, you know. And I remember the teacher saying that to me when I was at uni, but I was like, oh, yeah.

know, but it actually is true. So yeah, everyone that you learn with is going to go out into the field and you're going to know people in all different organisations and places and it's such a great segue. So really lean on those connections and support to hear more about what other people are doing, what their experiences are, job opportunities, training opportunities, like your social work network is really important. Yeah. Are there any interesting projects or programs that are coming up for you that you wanted to shout out. I'm hoping to lean much more on Interplay. So I recently completed Play Therapy training with Interplay Australia, you know, working with parents and kids together. So I'm kind of hoping I can implement that a lot more within

refuge, but it's been hard not having the resources. And I'm also thinking about developing a new program in one of the refuges we have because there's a lot of kids there. Sometimes we get upwards of 16 kids and it's just impossible for me to be able to engage with all of them. So I'm kind of hoping to develop something that's going to be able to be really group-based and relational and regulating in that space. But other than that, yeah, we'll see. It sounds like you have the opportunity to supervise students as well, which is pretty cool. Yeah, we've got a couple of students come through the program, which is really good. Cochelter has a great student program and they're really keen to meet the needs of the student and like what their interest areas are because

Coast shelters quite diverse. You know, we have men's refuges, youth refuges, women's refuges. We've also got some new really innovative programs. Like we have things called social enterprises where we get clients to learn new workplace skills. We have like a warehouse, a coffee cart, things like that where people can come and get paid, get some experience on their resume and get a qualification, which is really cool. And if anyone wanted to know a little bit more about the areas of work that you've engaged with or even the approaches that you use, things even like trauma-informed and some of the therapeutic models, do you have any good resources for people?

Yeah, I would say definitely the Australian Childhood Foundation has been a really good one for me. And I'm always surprised by how many people don't actually know about them. They have so many really good resources for carers and for workers. I think they have like a library that anyone can access with a bunch of, of different therapeutic trauma-informed books that you can just get on your iPad or your phone. But they also talk a lot about the impact of trauma on the brain and, you know, trauma-responsive frameworks not only for schools, but workplaces and things like that. So there's some really

awesome practical resources with the ACF that I'm just always checking on their stuff. And then I would say someone who's been quite foundational to me would be Bruce Perry. His books definitely influence the way that I work and how I approach my clinical work and, you know, the type of relational work that I do. And then I would say the interplay training with Donna Berry, her humanistic approach. You know, it is tailored at play therapy, but I use it in absolutely all of my sessions with clients, even one-on-one. The approach and the skills that you learn from her are really, really good. Yeah, nice. I'll find those resources and I'll pop them in the show notes for people to go off and do their own reading.

Cool. Yeah. Is there any other media? I know that, you know, podcasts are a lot newer on the scene, but even like movies or other sorts of media where things that get it really right or have sort of positive portrayals of the type of work you're doing? I definitely think there's a lot of really good apps out there. I recently came across this app.

It was called Tappy and it's just like a regulation app. And like kids and people are on their phone so much. So I just think there's so many like innovative resources out there. And like Tappy, it's basically just a bunch of fidgets in this little app. And it's just so cool. Like every young person I've told about it has just absolutely loved it. And yeah, I think, you know, there's so many really cool things out like in apps and stuff that like I'll just randomly search and I'll find something really cool. But there's some really good domestic and family violence apps out there as well.

But I suppose in regards to like movies, you know, I haven't really come across anything. Nothing that's made it a huge impact anyway that I can kind of recall. I definitely love YouTube and the resources on YouTube. I think that's growing so much. You know, I'm forever like giving clients YouTube on yoga or, you know, YouTube on like a breathing technique. Because it's one thing I think to like give people paper-based stuff, but not everyone learns that way. Yeah. So I do try to engage in different media.

you know, platforms or ways of learning, like if someone learns better through hearing or through touch or whatever, I try to kind of adapt to their needs and I use different forms of media for that. Yeah, that's wonderful. Before we finish up, Brianna, is there anything that we haven't talked about anything else about your work or your experience that you really want to mention? I don't think so. I guess just, yeah, like put yourself out there and, you know, once you're in the field of work, you just kind of have to just explore different things and learn for yourself. Yeah, and it's hard because, I mean, even yourself, you sound so confident, but being thrown in the deep end very much in this new role.

And even as a student, trying to figure out where you fit, that was really hard. But you clearly had that desire from the beginning to do work that makes a difference. And I think that practical work with OASIS right in the very beginning helped you, even just the other volunteering roles that you had. as you said, catapulted your connections. So you developed so much experience and hopefully confidence as a student than others would in maybe the first five, ten years of their professional life. So it makes such a big difference. Yeah. And you've wanted to keep your work really fresh and challenging and taking on new opportunities like with the maternity role that you took

advantage of. And throughout all of your roles that have involved any sort of counseling, I think you've really helped to adjust people's idea of what therapy can be. So it's being creative and providing opportunities for connection that perhaps they've never had before in their lives. And you've been able to deal with some really heavy information that's coming to you. You're helping people through some really traumatic experiences by finding the pleasure and a sense of achievement in those small winds, which makes it sustainable work for you. But yeah, you've had to hit the ground running. You're clearly very driven and you've had such an amazing opportunity to develop a new program and just be a trailblazer in some ways for this new role. So really looking

forward to seeing what you can come up with next and hopefully the people at the top are listening and these sorts of things can spread a little bit more into other areas where they're really needed. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Thank you again so much. I've really loved this chat and loved meeting with you and hearing about this experience. And hopefully it'll be inspiring for other people as well. Yeah, and thank you so much for inviting me and creating such an awesome platform for sharing information.

Like, I think that's really awesome. That's been my pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Rihanna, please visit my anchor page. at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter,

or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode's guest is Marie, an accredited mental health social worker, couples and family therapist, presenter, podcaster and trainer, renowned for her experience in the field of mental health and well-being.

With a focus on normalising discussions around mental health, Marie equips audiences with the knowledge and tools to nurture their own mental well-being, helping to break down stigma and empower individuals to speak openly and confidently about mental health. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you next time.