Social Work Spotlight - Episode 99: Shahil

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

In this episode I speak with Shahil, who has worked across the areas of youth homelessness, disability and suicide prevention and aftercare and now works in policy, advocacy and social campaigning. Shahil believes in social justice and advocating for the rights of people experiencing challenges in life, finding that focusing on intervention at a micro-level is just as critical as issues on a macro-level. Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Neutrality Project - https://neurality.world/Vinnies Successful Member Recruitment guide - https://mavs.vinnies.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Member-Recruitment-Guide_6-January-2021.pdfSt Vincent de Paul Society web site - https://www.vinnies.org.au/St Vincent de Paul Society NSW LinkedIn page - https://www.linkedin.com/company/vinniesnsw/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b8BZUR0bJNX2tVFANm8JV9DpT5oFb46l9W-VcLQdPig/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

I begin today by acknowledging the Gadigal people of the Eura Nation, traditional custodians of the land on which I record this podcast, and pay my respects to their elders past and present. I extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people listening today. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have an intrinsic connection to this land and have cared for country for over 60,000 years, with their way of life having been devastated by colonisation. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight, where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode.

I'm your host, Yasmeen Lopus, and today's guest is Shahil, who has worked across the areas of youth homelessness, disability and suicide prevention and aftercare, and now works in policy, advocacy, and social campaigning. Shehill believes social justice and advocating for the rights of people experiencing challenges in life, finding that focusing on intervention at a micro level is just as critical. cool as issues on a macro level. Welcome, Shahil. Lovely to have you on the podcast. Very excited to chat with you about your experience so far. Thanks for having me. Can I firstly ask when you began as a social worker and what brought you to the profession? Yeah, my social work journey has been quite odd in a sense that because when I finished high school, I feel like there was a lot of pressure on me to perform in my HSC. So because of that, I completely flunked it and I didn't end up

getting the mark and the ATA that I wanted. Initially, I wanted to be a paramedic. So that dream went kind of at the window. And then I decided, okay, I have to do something with my life. So let me start off somewhere. I started looking on Sikh, and I came across different apprenticeships. And the one that stood out to me most was an automotive apprenticeship, which is to become like a mechanic. And it was with Audi and Parramatta. So I was like, okay, Parameda is not too far from Liverpool, I'll give it a shot. One year in, I was like, okay, this is going well. I might just complete the four years. Yeah, so I ended up completing my four years of apprenticeship, and then I moved on to working two additional years for the company. And within those two years,

I met my ex-partner who was working at a nurse in Liverpool Hospital, and she told me that there's this people called social workers. And I was like, okay, that sounds pretty cool, but what did they actually do. So they come and talk to our patients, they do stuff related to mental health, they collaborate with people, they work on different projects and stuff. I was like, okay, that sounds very interesting. So I went home and I googled what is a social worker? And social work degrees started popping up. There was like the Western Sydney University, there were other universities. So I clicked on the Western Sydney one because it was in Parramatta. So Parramatta is not too far. So I started looking at the degree and I started

reading the criteria. I was like, okay, so I'm a matured student, and that's how I can apply without having an ATA. Yeah, so I spoke to my ex-partner about it, and she's like, you know what, give it a shot. See if you like it, if you don't, whatever, like do something else. So I signed up for it straight away. And the only thing that was bugging me at that time was I wasn't sure if it's going to be daytime classes, which would interfere with my full-time work. So I was very skeptical. about it. And then I remember the following week, I went and spoke to my general manager, and I explained the situation to him that I came across the social work degree. I want to start studying because I want to eventually transition out of this current role. He was quite

happy with that. He supported me. He said that I can make up my hours by staying back over time or starting very early if I have to attend classes and stuff like that. So that continued for a while. I was given the option to do evening classes, which is really helpful. So I used to work from 6 a.m. to 4 p.m. and then travel to Parramatta campus from 5 to 9 p.m. classes. So I did that for like almost two years or something, one and a half two years. And then COVID hit. So that was a pretty big thing because our organization started struggling financially

because we couldn't attend to customers. and mostly because it was all car-related servicing and everything. So we had a big fall off. And because of that, the budget got tighter, everything got a little bit stricter. And I think my leniency to attend classes was a little bit taken away. And that's just the effect of COVID. So I totally understood, but I was like, okay, I have to make a decision whether I want to stay in this degree and finish it out,

or do I want to continue earning money? and supporting myself financially. And because I was in my mid-20s, I was like, okay, I have to start saving for my future. What do I do? So I made the call to leave my job and focus solely on my studies. And it was quite a good time

because I had my social work placement coming up. So I would have had to probably leave my job anyway because I had to do 400 hours of placement for my first one. So when it came to the time for applying for my first placement, I chose to do it out in Dubbo and Broken Hill. And that was working in the youth homelessness. I was working with the Uniting. It was a very eye-opening experience for me personally because I've been the only son at home. And I was always the older sibling.

So I feel like in that sense, mom was quite protective of me. She didn't want me to move away too far. She always looked after my health and stuff like that. So moving away to Dubbo and Broken Hill was a good experience because it helped me transition into the person I am now and gain a little bit more freedom, discover things for myself, make mistakes and learn from it. I think that was the biggest one. In Dubbo and Broken Hill, I felt a lot of social isolation because I didn't know anyone there.

It's a very small community, but I tried putting myself in situations where I had to talk to people. I made friends at work and friends that I have till this day, I still go. and see them sometimes. Yeah, and we catch up all the time. So that was a really big experience for me. Fast forward to the end of placement. I was offered a job with the United.

I decided to stay there for a few months longer and then came back to Sydney because of family. So stayed in Sydney, continued with my life. I found a job as a casual supporter worker throughout my degree, I work with disability services, which is really cool. It helped me develop my skills as a social worker. So I used to learn it in theory, but it actually allowed me to practice it,

even counselling skills and stuff like that. And then it came to my second placement, which was towards the end of my degree. I put my hand up to do it within an organization called Sydney Alliance, and they're focused on advocacy, campaigning. I think that was also very good because having my first placement be in casework and homelessness and then jumping into the policy advocacy campaigning space, there was a very big difference. I spent probably the first month out of the six months of my placement learning about how to project my voice and use my story in a way that encourages people and builds up people's capacities

and allows people to use their voices as well. It was very empowering when initially I didn't know how to public speak. and stuff like that. So during my placement, I was given the opportunity to throw myself into very deep situations, which I liked,

because we had these Sydney Alliance conventions where like a thousand people turned up. And I decided to, I put my hand up to speak on it. And a few years back, I would have never thought that I would have been able to do that. So I got involved in a lot of projects.

Obviously, like, I struggled with. self-care, giving myself, like, self-care time. But I was like, okay, placement only goes for six months. So I'll give it my best shot, and hopefully I can learn a lot out of it. And I will make sure that I give myself a break after this, like a well-deserved break. Yeah. And it's in the Alliance where you met Troy?

Yes, yeah. So Troy was, I believe Troy may have done their placement previously. Yeah. And then Troy got a job with Uniting too. That's right. Yeah. It's such a small world. But yeah, for my regular listeners, you'll remember Troy from episode 87.

And now you're working on a project together again. Yeah, Troy's amazing. I'm surprised because during my placement, I had only met Troy once. And we had a very brief chat. And then once I finished placement and I got like a job and everything, I followed Troy on LinkedIn. Of course you did. everybody should. Yeah, you know.

So, followed Troy on socials. And then I was like, okay, I actually needed to make an effort to meet Troy, you know. So I remember we had like a relational meeting. And I used to see Troy at different Sydney Alliance events and stuff. And we would always just like wave or say hello. And this neurodiversity project came up through the University of Sydney and Sydney Alliance. So Troy messaged me saying that if I wanted to co-chair alongside. Troy. And I was like, you know what? Yes, let's do it. So, yeah, Troy's amazing. Yeah.

There is so much to unpack, but I guess I'm interested firstly. So you said your first placement was in homelessness, in Dubbo and Broken Hill. Those are two very, very different parts of New South Wales. How did that work for you? Yeah, it was quite interesting because even though I was based in Dubbo and my office was based in Dubbo. We used to travel out using the company cars on like the different trips, maybe stay there for a little bit and then come back and then continue everything else. We also visited localities around Dubbo, so Wellington, even as far as Orange. That was pretty good. We went up to Burke as well. That was really exciting. Yeah. Or with your supervisor, I'm guessing, or were there other students around? Yeah, so there were only two

students, myself and one other person. And I think with the university budget, they could only allow two people at a time. So it's really good because the other student worked on, I think she worked in family preservation. And then I was in the Doorways reconnect program. So we were doing two completely different roles, but we used to catch up at the pub after placement and just talk about our day, debrief, see what we've learned. But yeah, I think the travel was very exciting because it was probably one of the first times I actually got to drive on like the very country roads. It's very deserted. I used to just be in the car with my supervisor and the whole time would just share stories or talk

or I'd be dozing off half the time because there's nothing to look at. Yeah, pretty consistent with my experience with students in the car. But no, like that is really the really juicy opportunities to like you're going to, something and you're excitedly talking about what you're going to see there or hear there. And then on the way back, you're talking about, you know, your debriefing. So those are where some of that really rich conversation happens. Yeah, definitely. Like, I remember seeing so much, it was just very different compared to Sydney.

And I feel like the whole time I was there every day, I just tried to take it in as much as I could. Even in social outings, like when I used to go to the pub after placement, everyone was so friendly, they used to come up and say hello to you. I know their truck drivers used to make stopovers. And they'd always be like, hey, like come sit with us, you know? Like, how come you're sitting alone? I was like, hey, I don't know.

Like, I actually don't know anyone here. And they're like, no, just come sit with us. So it's so different, but also such a great learning experience, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you learn to appreciate different sides. I used to think about how I appreciated Sydney a lot when I used to live there.

But now when I'm back in Sydney, I appreciated living there. And it's just so different. Yeah. Do you think you'd ever at one point go back and work in a regional area? I have been thinking about it for a very long time. I even promised to my colleagues that I would try my best to come back. Yeah. I think speaking in terms of like the living through the cost of living crisis and

financially, because I have a mortgage now, it's a little bit harder. Yeah, and I know that if I do change jobs, I don't know that I may be able to financially support myself. And yeah, and what that change would look like. And especially because, like, my partner studying and stuff, I have to try balance both things. Yeah, I think Uniting gave me an amazing opportunity. And I thank my university too for allowing students to have those experiences, even though it's just two at a time, but it's amazing, you know. definitely a lifetime experience, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I did say that you've done other study as well. Can you tell me a bit about that? Yeah. I think it was in 2013. I was speaking with my dad and he asked me that if I wanted to study business. And I was like, okay. So I did my diploma of business with TAFE.

Ended up completing that. That was all good because it was self-paced. It was online. so it wasn't too big of a burden on me. When it came to my Bachelor of Forensic Science, I tried studying that at UTS, and that was just when I had started my social work degree too, so I was going to try to study two things at a time.

Yeah, and my interest for forensic science developed from watching TV shows, true crime. I have a lot of books on true crime. I'm like, I have some behind me over here. I have a lot outside. And podcasts, I'm guessing. Yeah, podcasts, you know, so I was like, okay, I really do want to try to study something around that. And that's still one of my goals.

But I tried studying it for a little bit, and it was very content heavy. So I was like, okay, let me focus on something in which I can develop my career and have this as a side thing, which I can come back to later. Yeah. And UTS was also very far from Parramatta. So whereas Parramatta South Western Sydney campus was just down the road from my work. So convenience-wise, it was definitely better to study social work as well. But yeah, I think social work's been amazing. There's always, like I feel like I'm still learning every day.

It never ends, yeah. So, yeah. I can tell you almost 20 years in, same, same. That's what makes it so exciting is that you know you're going to be learning something new every day. Yeah. That's what I love. I feel like there was so much theory in social work that I always thought that I would never use on the field. I always thought that when I get a job, pretty much like school, like most of the things that I've learned at school, I don't use anymore.

And I thought that it would be the same process. But everything that I've learned in social work somehow plays a part in my daily life, in my professional life, social life, you know. But yeah, so after my degree, I also worked in suicide prevention and aftercare. And that was with an organization called Nemi National. That was before I jumped into this Vinny's job. That was very interesting. I worked there for a few months. Even though I told myself I would give myself a break after my degree, I never ended up doing that.

I say a pardon. So I think the reason why I did that jumped into full-time work straight away is because I really wanted to move out of home. And one of the criteria was that I have a full-time job and I pass like a certain threshold. I show them that I'm able to pay my rent on time and stuff like that. So I like, okay, I definitely have to find a full-time job straight away and maybe I can take some annual leave eventually. Yeah. So that was very interesting. We used to have most of our referrals coming from Cumberland, Westmead and Blacktown Hospital. I used to work alongside clients for three months, which was 12 weeks, and hopefully help them transition into the goals or the life that they saw as optimal for them.

It was really empowering working alongside people because it gave me opportunities to learn about their stories and experiences and how they have been trying to cope with the Australian system and how that works and aligning them with their stories. personal goals and what the outcomes look like. So I used to make sure that I sit down with every person that I worked with and just listen to what they have to say, what they want. Do a little bit of motivational interviewing as well. Like what does what does your life look like for you? What do you want your life to look like and where you are currently and how we can kind of get there? The biggest part of that was it taught me how to collaborate with people effectively. And yeah, that was very important for me. So I did that for a while and I realized that maybe I wanted to do a little bit of advocacy and jump into campaigning, kind of work, community organizing.

And because I was already working with Sydney Alliance, even after my placements, I continued working with them on different projects. I found this job for Villis, which was like member recruitment and retention. And that stood out to me quite a lot because it was connecting with members who are part of the frontline staff who work alongside people coming to them from the community with financial aid, assistance around education, awareness. So that really stood out to me. And I was like, okay, you know what, I'll apply for it. I'll see if I get it. If I don't get it, I'm happy where I am at the moment. And I'll continue working here for a while. But if I do get it, I wanted to slowly start transitioning from the casework site into community organizing advocacy.

And the reason for that is because I felt that it aligned with me personally because I felt free. And like the role was very autonomous. I could work on different projects that aligned with my values and stuff like that. I still have a very big soft spot for casework. And I probably will eventually do it down the line as well. but I think for now in terms of building my career up, this was a good transition. Yeah. So how long have you been in this current role?

I've been with Finnis for three months now. Yeah, so I'm very fresh, still learning. Is it kind of what you expected, transitioning over? In terms of the transition, yes. I knew that it would be difficult for me because I hadn't been in an advocacy and organizing role professionally, even though I had worked with Sydney Alliance on different projects. It was mostly as a student on learning experience and stuff like that. So professionally, I knew that it would be a little bit difficult and mostly because my mindset was

now trained to be delivering casework, which is like counselling and crisis intervention and stuff like that. So whereas with community organizing, it's less counseling, less crisis intervention, and you just work on different projects and you achieve the outcomes, raise awareness and stuff like that. So it takes a little bit more time, whereas I only had 12 weeks with each client in my previous role. Yeah, and Vinnie's is very big, which is really cool. So I feel like in a sense that I'm still learning about the organisation itself, the different conferences around Sydney. And there's so many members that I have to go out and meet, build relationships with.

Yeah, I think it's exciting. From the sounds of things, the role that you're in at the moment, isn't called a social work role and that people from different professional backgrounds might be in this role. What is the title of the role and what do you think appeals to you as a social worker? Yeah.

So the title of the role itself is member recruitment and retention. I think the biggest thing that appealed to me out of this is because Vinnie's is a partnering organization with Sydney Alliance. So I knew that there was already some pre-existing report there. Yeah. And when I've been working closely with Sydney Alliance, I've seen Vinnie's at almost every convention, conference, and I've met some of the people working at Vinnie's too. So my curiosity arose in terms of being offered their job from Vinnie's, I was like, I'm going into a role and into an organization that works closely with an organization that I worked with previously. And that was a sense of comfort in itself.

And yeah, so I think that was really good. And I know that there's some projects where Vinnie's and Sydney Alliance have collaborated on. And I've been a part of it too during my student placement. So that was also a sense of comfort there. The member recruitment part stood out to me quite a lot is because when I think about member recruitment, it involves going out into the community, meeting people, seeing where their interests, lie and linking that back to what Vinnie's can offer them and seeing if that merges together with the values that both parties bring to the table.

Who are these members? So organizations mostly? So members are part of conferences and conferences are just a group of members based in different parts of Sydney. And these members go through an application process and they go through like a couple of referee checks, and they join a conference which may be within their localities. And these conferences, they work together to come up with goals and look at the different outcomes which they want to achieve together.

Most of them work quite independently, which is really cool, because they work on the ground in the front line. They hold people within the communities. And I think overall, they're just focused on the best outcomes for the community and people, which is really cool because that definitely aligns with what work I want to be involved in. In terms of retention, we are looking to develop programs and projects that streamline the application processes for members, and we want to make it easier in a sense that it is not too lengthy, and we want to provide some value or resources or support for the existing members, and

retain them to be a part of Vinnie's still and do the good work that they do. We have like the Vinnie's van services, obviously like the retail shops, there's homework clubs, the green team. There's a lot of work that goes on. I'm still learning quite a lot about it and how the Viniz Society works itself and that includes meeting people who work within the organisation and at the office as well as going out into the community and meeting people. Yeah. That makes sense. So it's kind of like you'd have to have a really good understanding of the organizational strategies, the target populations and the programs that exist within that network and being

able to make sure everyone's on the same page. Yeah, definitely, you know. And like finding new ways of and new projects potentially as to what these projects we wanted to look at, we want to give people a chance to be involved in something that they value a lot to them or they are passionate about. and yeah, just trying to come up with ideas on how we can kind of all work together to achieve the best for everyone. Yeah. Yeah.

Did you want to talk a little about the project that you're working on with Troy, the Neurality Project? I think by the time the podcast comes out, you might be at the end of it already, but it might just be cool if there are any resources that come out from that that people could check out. Yeah, no worries at all. Yeah, so the project itself is called Neurality, which means neoreality. So initially this project was designed by Amanda Tattersoll and the Sydney Alliance a while ago. And I know Troy became a part of it. And there were a few other people who became the key people who were designing this project. And I saw it as an opportunity to learn because coming from a migrant background,

I had no prior knowledge, especially in school and stuff, we weren't really taught what neurodural. diversity is and like even using the right language and how to connect with people in a way that is safe and comfortable. I was like, okay, this is a perfect opportunity for me to learn. And the best way I can learn is if I throw myself in there and I just get involved and see what comes of it. So yeah, so we are, we've been holding a series of seven workshops. The first one has been completed already, I think last week it was or the week before. And they're focused on different aspects of public life. And the team that I'm a part of specifically is the school's team. And this is where we get people to come and share their lived experience stories, how their neurodiversity

and the intersection between like public dimensions affected them when growing up or in their school life. What challenges existed? And what has has been addressed and what has not been addressed, so the gaps that exist. So I'm a part of the school's team, but I co-chaired the first one with Troy because I wanted to get a better understanding of what the workshops will look like. And yeah, I guess I came into that space as an ally, and I think that was really powerful being up there with Troy because, yeah, it's just being an ally in the space. I think I wanted to spread the message that it's okay to be an ally in this space and that we have to encourage more people to get involved in projects and workshops and

trainings like this just to spread awareness and make the society a better place. Yeah. And I'm guessing by ally you mean someone who doesn't have that lived experience but can understand to a certain degree the importance of understanding and the importance of using inclusive and shared language can help people move forward together. Definitely. Yeah. Like I think Yeah, coming in as an ally, I think the main idea was that, yeah, like I definitely learn how to use the right language. I'm aware of if I'm making any mistakes in the space, how I can learn from those mistakes. And I wanted to come in as an ally to kind of spread the message to tell people that it's okay to make mistakes. And that even at this training and the workshops and stuff, that it's okay and it's a safe environment that even though you do make mistakes, you will learn from it.

it is a safe environment for you to learn it. Because ultimately we want people to take that message away and have them spread across their social groups, their social circles, especially when you're conversing with people in public or in your social lives that have no prior knowledge about neurodiversity or mental health even. Just kind of creating an overall good environment. Yeah. I wonder whether there's also as an ally,

there is an element of shared experience. of diversity. Like you mentioned as a person of color, as a person growing up, and having to tackle that lack of sameness, I guess, you do have that experience of, you're not necessarily going through exactly the same things, but you can relate on a different level. Yeah, I think just trying to fit in

and finding your sense of belonging is always a difficult thing, especially when the society around you is constantly changing, especially with like our political government changes we have like the cost of living crisis going on so in the midst of people trying to find their sense of belonging and find their space within our society they're still juggling between the public dimensions and the pressures put on them at a larger scale and then yeah the divide between the micro and the macro yeah yeah do you find that that community development brings a lot of challenges versus the awareness raising, because people can be very set in their ways and not wanting to explore alternatives.

I mean, we've got the referendum coming up. There's a whole story around that. But at least in my experience of community development, I think I interpreted people might be more open to change or understanding different perspectives, and it's not always the case. Yeah, I think, yeah, there are. are definitely some perspectives which don't align with the values that we are looking to bring into this space. I think the way I've dealt with that personally, especially going through my high

school stages and coming into Shalia and stuff like that, is that I, like, I've always been the person where I try and sit down and talk to people and come through like a reasonable solution or conclusion, I know that it always doesn't work. And personally, that's the way I deal with tension in my life. Right. I don't think I've ever been the type of person that has tried to push away an issue for a later date. And that's because I feel like it's the social worker in us too. Like we always try work through things almost straight away.

Like my brain's kind of trained that way now. but I also know that, especially for people in my personal life where they don't like to talk about things straight away, I also try and make myself a little bit aware that, okay, like sometimes people do need that space and that's okay. But it's about how I can change my ways into meeting them halfway, giving space, taking space kind of thing. Yeah, a bit more of an appreciation. Yeah, you know, so. Yeah. Yeah. What support do you need in that role? I'm not sure if you have other social workers that you work directly with, whether you get much of a chance for critical reflection or debriefing. Is that something that you feel you need? And what helps, I guess, keep you motivated to do that.

Yeah. I think social work is definitely quite heavy, especially if you've been in the casework roles, case management. And you see injustice and, you see injustice and, you know, and people going through challenges every day. It does take a toll on you after a while, but I guess setting those good workplace boundaries and setting boundaries for yourself is really important. I struggle with that still. I have a hard time managing my work and time for myself, which is just personal time with me.

It could be just doing nothing, watching Netflix and stuff. But I feel like every time I am watching Netflix, I have to, my brain just automatically goes into thinking, about work or what I have due next. So I'm still training myself in that space. One thing that's definitely been helping is getting away from the screen completely and going for a walk. So most recently I've been trying to push myself to wake up at like five or six every morning and just go for like a 10 kilometer walk or whatever. Just come back.

It does tire me out, but it tires me out and energizes me at the same time. So it's really good in that way. It helps me not think about work as soon as I get up as well and just let my mind free for a little bit. In terms of seeking professional supports, I think that's also very important to have someone to talk to. Yes, you may have friends or family that you can vent to on a more casual slash unprofessional level. And that's very important. I'm having those immediate supports around you, but also having professional supports where you can actually talk and unpack, debrief, and maybe talk about your feelings and how you're feeling that way, why you're feeling that way.

And that will go back to motivational interview. Like, what would a healthy mindset or what would you want your mental health to look like, ideally? And a lot of a struggle with our mental health. And that's because either it's too expensive or we don't have the time because we're trying to keep up with life. Yeah, so I think having the support around you is very important. Yeah. seeking out the supports when you do feel like you're starting to burn out and because social work is quite heavy with burnout in general you want to try and steer clear of

that and a lot of us do feel burnt out at times but that's okay like it's it's just a matter of how you kind of navigate through that yeah and kind of don't have like a roll-on effect where you just pile on and pile on stuff until it yeah yeah yeah given that your parents seem to have sort of some expectations of what you might do after high school. Do you find it easy enough to explain to them what you do? What do you think they think of all that? That's actually a really good question. Just as a child of migrants, I get it. I think that's a really good question. Because my parents initially wanted me to become a doctor growing up as a child. And I started to become really passionate about that. I forced myself to do really

well in school. This is like through primary years. Forced myself to study very hard. I used to study day and day out. And I was like, okay, my life is to become a doctor. I think that's it. And then eventually, like when I came to a shalia, I started realizing that this is not what I wanted. This was something that was kind of put on me. And like, I have family members who are very successful in those fields. And I was like, okay, so there is that external pressure and that internal pressure. But yeah, I guess when I explain to my parents what I do, it's a little bit of a conversation that you have to navigate through because I don't know how to completely explain what I do without making it seem too casual or complicated at the same time. With my casework role, I could easily explain what to do.

But at the moment, I can't because it's going out and meeting people, building relationships and stuff. The long time. Yeah, like it's very autonomous in that way. with casework you have KPIs and there's certain clients and timelines that you have to meet and stuff like that so it's easier to explain yeah so interesting yeah so I guess like the aspect of raising awareness within the community too it's hard for me to describe that to my family members and that's because like you said exactly like it's time consuming it takes a more time to reach

those goals and even then you don't know if it's going to be successful so only five people could be interested at a time, but sometimes hundreds turn up. Yeah. So being able to, yeah, I guess demonstrate the effectiveness. It's kind of like qualitative research versus quantitative to some degree. Like how do you actually show that this is having an effect when the trickle down is not as obvious? Yeah.

Yeah. So like that's why I've been hoping that through like this neurodiversity projects and like the heat projects, we are able to eventually. contribute some valuable outcomes for the communities and the people that we want to see thriving. We know that Australia has a lot of people coming in from migrant backgrounds, and most of the projects that we are focusing on leads to inclusiveness and education and supportive environments and stuff like that. So I think, yeah, just overall, just looking out for each other, I guess. So, yeah, I guess my next question is around what changes have you been,

able to observe over time in this area. And how do you even begin to measure that? Yeah. I think one of the things when it comes to working with communities is firstly recognizing that everyone within that community will definitely have differentiating opinions about different subject matters, which is totally fine because like for example, myself and my partner, for example, we come from different backgrounds, but when it comes to different topics and talking about it, we will have different opinions and thoughts and thought processes when it goes with that. So it's about acknowledging those differences as well as seeing how our past or our childhood may have shaped that kind of thinking. An example could be the rights of indigenous

people in Fiji, right? So people from my background, the Indo-Fijians, we were brought over from India by the British through the Gyrman system, which was like to work on the sugar cane farms in the fields, get money, promised a good life kind of thing. But the reality of that was that when we were bought over, yes, we got to work on the sugar cane farms and fields and whatnot, but the life wasn't as what it was promised. And technically it was just cheap labor, right? And because our people didn't really understand what was going on and kept that hope alive. as to like life will get better. And yes, in some sense, I think it was a positive as well because like if we had never

been born to Fiji, life would have been very different for us if we were still living in India. We don't know if it would have been good or bad. And I was just talking to one of my cousins about this like the other day. We were like, okay, like if we actually never moved here, like our parents probably would have married someone else and we would have never known each other. We don't even know if we would exist it. So we just took that time out to appreciate each other's company and stuff like that.

But when it comes to inclusivity, I think that like especially working in a role that involves going out and meeting people constantly, listening to them, what their challenges are, what positives their face in life, their relationships as well. Relationship breakgrounds. I think just taking the time out to actually listen to someone is the most important thing. and I was talking to actually one of my colleagues about this the other day. Like sometimes we go out to communities and looking to engage people going in with like a mental agenda as to how we want the conversation to go. And that's because that's so embedded into us, right? Like we are always, especially in the Australian culture and the work life, we are always told that we have to go, go, go. We have to achieve these smart goals, specific, measurable, realistic, or whatever.

and come out with some kind of work that we can kind of build upon and take back. But sometimes we actually forget to just be present in the moment and see where that conversation actually does take us. Even if it doesn't go anywhere, yes, we can start directing it in some way, but initially just going in with no plans whatsoever and just sitting down and listening. But I guess that's what I can talk about when it comes to inclusivity. when I was doing my placement out in Dubbo with the Uniting,

I was asked to go out and meet people from indigenous backgrounds. And part of that challenge for myself personally was that because I was so fresh into the social work scene and previously only having talked about social work values and ways of communication only in textbook and assignments, I didn't know how to apply that practically. I feel like if I had more students there with me, besides just just the communication, the other one, it would have been a little bit easier because we would have gone out as a group. But then again, like, that has its challenges itself because going out as a group, it can be quite overwhelming for some people, having just a group of students show up from this university,

previously not having met any of them, whereas if you just go as a solo person, it's easier to build those relationships and build a report. You can present yourself in a way that obviously you'll be fully engaged into that conversation rather than having to bounce around different people within that group and sharing ideas and those ideas could be differentiating. So sometimes you're trying to manage that internal conversation and that external conversation.

Whereas if you're just a solo person, you can just manage everything quite easily. Going out as a group is amazing because you're learning about each other as well as the other people in their conversation. But I feel like it's definitely easier to manage if you're solo sometimes. I guess when working alongside people from Aboriginal,

Tarshad Island and backgrounds, their idea of inclusivity is very different to what we have been taught growing up. The customs, the traditions, the way we talk to people, the way we present ourselves, the way we dress, it's all different to what I've been told. So initially I was like, okay, I need to actually sit down and think about how I'm going to go into this and what I'm going to come out of it with.

we normally had to do like reflection journals and stuff afterwards so that helped me quite a lot even though i was like quite tired after the day and stuff i made sure that i just wrote down one page of how i felt about today and just a couple of bullet points of what i need to improve on and one of the things i needed to improve on was like obviously my use of language so not being quite direct, but at times being direct as well, and not fluffing around too much, recognising that there's language barriers too. So we used to have to go to clients' houses or people's houses to ask questions about their welfare, their well-being, whether they need financial assistance, how they're

mental health is and stuff like that. So some of these topics can be quite taboo, and it's about recognizing that, yes, like these people might not be quite used to talking about these topics. topics with someone random, especially someone who presents as a student in that field. And I did always introduce myself, yes, like I'm a student on placement, I'm here to learn and stuff like that. So yeah, just recognising that people may not be too comfortable and how to kind of navigate through that initial process of building rapport. But yeah, taking the time out to listen. Yeah, yeah. I think going in as a student without preconceived ideas or experience or really

expectations of you in that role, I think personally would help you to develop your own ways of working. Yeah. Because yes, if you've got someone to model off, that's wonderful and really helpful for your confidence. But I think, and I say this to my students all the time, this is about you figuring out what kind of social worker you want to be and what approach you want to have, not just following what someone else does, because that might not necessarily be the best thing for the situation either. So I think it's wonderful that in that environment you had a lot of flexibility, even if it was a bit daunting, to try to figure out where you fit within that and what your role was going to be. Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, that's a really important point because,

especially being on placement, we are told that we have to meet these certain hours. There's like a tick box checklist that you have to go through. Whether we are practicing everything that we are taught at university in terms of theory, like the social work practices, values, how we are applying those theories in our work. I think that can be quite conflicting too sometimes, even though it's really good. theories are really great. That makes sense. But on the field, it's very different because you can't always use these theories on everyone. Like it doesn't work, you know, like you have to just be a human and a person and present in that moment, you know? I found that at one point I was dwelling too much on like, am I actually practicing these things that I've been taught or does it just feel like a waste?

Why am I actually going to class if I'm not going to use this? But later on, I realized that both sides are quite important. Like, yes, these theories are used by the Australian Association of Social Workers. So yes, it is quite important because it's been proven to have worked. But on the field, I have to just take bits and pieces out of that and fit it into my value. see how that fits into my values and then practice as a social worker that I want to be. It's not about always taking everything out of it. It's just picking and choosing.

And sometimes you'll pick and choose different things for different people that you work with. Absolutely. Yeah. So I think, yeah, in that sense, it's quite flexible. Yeah, it gives you a guide, I guess. Pretty much, you know. Yeah, it's a good guide. Yeah.

Where then do you feel, given that experience that you had of trying to, match the values, the practice standards to your placement opportunities. Where do you think social work as a profession fits with this consciousness raising? Because I'm thinking these days, a lot of stuff I'm hearing about is you've got traditional professions like politicians, policymakers, marketers, even, newer ideas of coaches, gurus, influences. What is it about social work that makes the work you're doing a good fit, do you think? Yeah, I think the reason why social work is important is, firstly, it's because it's very, social work is quite wide in a sense that, yes, you can be an advocate for social justice, but you can also be involved in the policy advocacy

side, especially in the policy side, where you reach out to government leaders, local leaders, and you push for policy changes that will ultimately give people a life that is well suited. And pretty much just giving people the rights that they deserve. So in that sense, when it comes to traditional professions, yes, these traditional professions are very important because they have shaped the way society is at the moment. But when it comes to social work, in the sense of having its flexibility, it pushes for changes not only on a micro but a macro level. And that's important because these traditional professions that are already existing

and people are working in them, they may be interacting with people on a micro level or at a macro level, but often it's quite just one-sided as to like either you work with people on a micro level or you are working with people on a macro level. And yes, that's very important because these are the people, professions that they have shaped society and the way we think. But when it comes to social work, you can focus on both things at the same time. And quite often you can see the link between them. And you can have it as part of your position description to focus on both. You're not just limited to just one side, which is good and bad because yes, burnout rates are quite high when it comes

to social work. And the reason for that is because a lot is going on. And especially, because of understaffing as well. So I can use my parents as an example. So when I first described social work to my parents, they didn't understand what it was. And that's because my parents have grown up in a generation where these traditional professions were seen as very important and they will shape the way things will move forward. So my dad's an air traffic controller and my mom's a school teacher. So even like talking to my grandparents, they used to be a, like farmers and stuff like that. So yes, these professions fuel society, which is really good. They drive the way things work at the moment. But I didn't know how to fully describe social

work to them. So the way I described it to them was like, yes, I'll be working with people on a micro level. If someone goes through a challenge, and especially when it comes to casework. So I described casework to them, which is like, if someone goes through a suicidal crisis, they then go to the hospital, which we then get a referral from, and we work with them for three months, helping them achieve their goals and working with them to develop goals and see what their needs and wants are, and then helping them kind of transition into a well-suited life for them,

or maybe referring them onto another organization who can work with them longer term. Then when it came to the advocacy side, that was a little bit harder to explain because advocacy is quite dynamic. Like there's always different things going on. As I mentioned earlier, there's like the policy advocacy side. There's going out community engagement and stuff like that. So yes, like when it comes to the different generations and my parents understanding that macro side of things, it was a little bit difficult because then there's questions like

is their job security and what does this look like when? this project is finished. For example, at the moment we're trying to focus on increasing member numbers in southwest Sydney. But the question that my parents asked was like, what happens when that finishes? What happens when you have enough members? Then what do you do from there? So the idea that you're working on different projects at the same time can be quite hard to explain, especially if you don't have a proper timeline for it. I can't say where I'll be up to in three months time when it comes to this. Yeah.

It could be really good or we could be still researching and developing plans and stuff like that. That makes perfect sense. And probably leads me into, I guess my last question is if you weren't doing this right now. So let's say in three months, six months time, things wrap up. You've done everything that you want to do. Yes, the funding will probably continue and your role will still continue. but you feel as though personally you've done as much as you want to do in this role. Yeah.

What else have you thought about doing? What would you like to be doing? Would you like to go back to maybe regional work or building on any of the previous training that you've done or returning to that crisis or casework? What else has interested you? Yeah, that's a good question. I've thought about this quite a lot. I really wasn't sure where I would end up after my degree.

and because most of my peers that I did placement with or I went to uni with, we all had different ideas of where we actually want to go. Some of my colleagues are peers. They studied social work, but they didn't want to be a social worker. Or some did, and they wanted to practice social work in another country or something like that, you know. That's the beauty of social work. You can do whatever you want, either micro, macro, but you'll still be at the end of the day working alongside. and helping others. And that's the main thing. If you're truly passionate about it,

or if you come from a background where you've seen disadvantaged, and if you've experienced disadvantages, it kind of drives you in some sense too. Or if you haven't experienced disadvantages, you want to learn more about it, which is the beauty of it. And this is the perfect way to do it. And especially with social work and stuff, yes, you can work for NGOs, but you can also work in hospitals. which is also really good. And you could experience the governmental side and the non-governmental side, which is really cool.

And obviously, like the paperwork, the admin side, the processes will all be very different. The funding, the team that you work as part of too, so in hospitals, I'm not sure what it's, I've never worked in a hospital as a social worker. So I'm not really sure, but within an NGO, you have quite a tight community and a tight team, a very close-knit team, you know,

So you all know each other, you know what kind of work you do. There's room for collaboration, talk about your day. You get supervision, you get debriefs, which is really cool. Hopefully I can experience the hospital scene one day. But if I wasn't doing social work or after this, I do want to work as part of a correctional facility or like a centre, whether it's regional or urban or overseas even. And I just want to work alongside people who have gone through that system and try to understand what their needs and wants are.

And hopefully, eventually, we can decrease the amount of people going through the system and help them transition into roles that will help in their self-development rather than putting them away and pushing them away into just a place where they are frowned upon. they often come out with no supports at all, financial supports. Most of them go through challenges like homelessness, which is a really big thing. And that leads to suicidal crisis. And it's just a trickle-on effect. Yeah. A lot of these challenges affect them all at once. And most of these people, they may close off or they feel confined or they get pushed into a little corner where, like, all of these things affecting them out once.

So that's totally not okay. and I want to do some work around that or maybe alongside that. I feel like I need to put you in touch with Jerome, who has been a wonderful guest on the podcast previously. He works at a forensic hospital correctional facility, basically, and he supports people who are going through that process, and a lot of it is really complex discharge planning as well and looking after people for years at a time.

So, yeah, I might link you two up. Awesome. Thank you for that. Because it is that, compounded disadvantage, right? So one thing happens and then it creates a cascading or a snowball effect and just completely destroys someone's capacity to overcome some of these things. Definitely. I think, no, thank you for that. I think that's a really good point because, like you mentioned, the compounded effect. And when I do talk to some people within my social

circles, a lot of these people actually don't understand what these people go through. And a lot of time it can be just kind of frowned upon or come across as a joke and stuff like that, you know. So especially after COVID as well, I feel like with things like TikTok taking over everyone's lives at the moment, social media and stuff like that, there's always a negative portrayal of these people. I've seen a few people go live on TikTok from detention centers, which is pretty cool because like we actually get to see and listen to their story from the inside. But when I actually go and read the comments, they are actually quite negative. And I don't know how these people actually handle those comments because I'd be like,

I need to get off. Yeah. I need to get off this. Most of these comments are so negative and these people are just here to tell their story. Like this is what I'm going through. This is how long I'm here for kind of thing, you know? And they talk about their daily routine as well, which is super cool to see because we don't get to experience it first time, but we get to experience it in a way that someone's truth is being told.

You know, so, but yeah, like I love to do some work around that. I have been trying to research some courses that I can study to help me get there, which is like psychological science, criminology. I don't know if I want to do the double, but psychological science, definitely. Before I actually started studying social work, I briefly applied for a job for a correctional officer, and I don't know where that was going to initially take me. It was just like, I just saw it online and I just randomly apply for it.

But yeah, I'm not too sure. Something along those lines, definitely. I think there's an organisation called CRC, which is community or restorative centre or something like that. Is that the one in Newtown? Because I'm pretty sure I've also spoken with someone who works there. Yeah, I think it's a new town. Yeah.

I think there's one in Liverpool as well. Not 100%. but I did see a job come up for them many years back. And I was like, oh, like that sounds really cool. But yeah, it would be cool to work for an organization like that too. Yeah. A couple of people I need to link you in with. Oh, awesome.

Yeah. Thank you. But I think the trip to Fiji was like even though I mainly went for the wedding, like I couldn't turn a blind eye to the reality that people were facing there. So the first conversation that I had, which was at the first conversation. person that I met locally when I went for this trip was the guy that picked us up from the airport and drove us to the hotel. The drive was like 40 or 50 minutes long. So my partner was resting at the back and I was sitting at the front with him and I was like, okay, stuff like I'll have a conversation

with him, you know, like I can't just sit in silence. So I started asking him about what life is like here at the moment. So because we left Fiji in 2010, it's been like 13 years or something since I've lived there. So I just wanted to see what kind of changes have been brought about what is happening. So one of the leaders in power at the moment is Rambuka. And Rambuca, a lot of people don't actually have a positive review about it. And that's because there's a divide in the nation, divide in the people, there's increased taxes. People are being charged for education and textbooks now. The VAT, which is the equivalent of our GST, has been increased there. as well and people are a minimum wage. So one good thing that I really appreciate always is like

when I hear about stories back home about how much people are actually getting paid and how much we are getting paid here, yes, like there is a struggle of cost of living, fuel prices are increasing, food prices, everything's increasing here, which is totally understandable because almost all and every one of us are going through challenges here when it comes to finances. But looking at the pay scale, here and back home. I just take a moment and I'm like, okay, like if I was getting paid that much that people are getting paid back home, I don't know, like, what my life would be like. Like, I don't even know if I would survive.

Yeah, I guess those are the biggest differences. And he was talking about how he barely like meets ends with his family needs and ones, like how fuel prices are increasing. But to do his job, he has to drive people places. even though they don't have a registered organization like Uber we have here, they have private drivers and stuff like that, which are called like carriers or private taxis and stuff. So he's like, for my job, I have to drive everywhere,

which can be really far sometimes. When we have tourists come and visit us, sometimes we are scared to ask for the money that we deserve in terms of payment because they want to create that positive kind of image for tourism and like the locals helping tourists, like get to places and having them have the best experience. But sometimes they have to ask for less money to be able to do their job and have that positive image for themselves, you know? So initially he, even though it was a 50, 40 minute drive, the normal price they charge

people is like 130 for that trip, but he was charging me 90 because it's so late in the night. I know you guys have just landed. I'm going to charge you 90. I was like, oh, no, like, if you charge 130 for others, like, why are you trying to charge me 90? That's not okay. During the drive, then I learned about why he was trying to charge me 90s because they want to maintain that positive reputation and that image, especially because, like, a lot of the things there and recommendations is spread through word of mouth.

So he was hoping that I would tell my cousins about it and, like, my families and stuff like that and because most of us were staying at the hotel and we were probably going to meet him and ask him to take us back to the airport and stuff like that. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully I can go back home sometime and assist people there as well in whatever capacity I can. I'm drifting more towards obviously like the correctional stuff, but there's so much work to

be done. I don't even know where to start. Like I was on the plane, I went on my notes on my phone and I was just, typing up ideas as to like what like I can tackle in the future kind of thing and like I've just named it like ideas for the future and like hopefully I can come back to it one day and actually implement those but there's so much to be done I don't even know where to start I feel like you need Hermione's time turner so you can go back and do 100 things at once exactly right yeah especially when we left home in 2010 when I see Fiji right now and I drive the

it, it feels different, it's lost something. Like, I can't put my finger on what it is. It just feels empty and sad and just distant, you know, like it doesn't feel like home anymore. Sure. When it should. I made sure that I went out to the old house that I used to stay at and I spent some time there. I didn't actually go inside because people actually live there, but I parked on the street.

It was a bit weird, but I parked on the street and I just watched it. Like I looked at it for a bit. It doesn't look the same anymore because I like I got a rental kind. We drove places. Everywhere that I drove through, you'd just see stray dogs everywhere. And like I was like, who are actually looking after these dogs? And they are very, like these dogs were very thin. Like you could see the ribs and everything.

And I was like, weird. Like I don't even know if they're getting fed. Who do they belong to? Like do they even belong to someone? The town is just overcrowded. everything's just changed and you can see visible damage from the floods that happen almost yearly. Yeah. But yeah, like, I don't know, it just feels different, you know.

That's really sad. But, I mean, good that you could go back and see that and see how much has changed and fuel the passion for one day maybe going back and doing some work there. Yeah, exactly. Even with the issues of drug and alcohol, it's arisen quite a lot, especially after COVID, because a lot of the people's businesses were shut down during COVID. So people were resorting to other ways of making money. And some of those challenges are seen through my family as well.

So I said, oh, damn, like the driver didn't mention when I was talking to him that they didn't get financial assistance at all, whereas we did over here. And we were lucky enough to get that. But like with these smaller countries, I don't know what the leaders are doing, you know, to actually help the people, you know. So yeah. Yeah. I think especially when it comes to education,

like a lot of my younger cousins were very happy that they didn't have to pay for education at one point. And especially textbooks, because unlike us, we have digital like laptops, digital textbooks, and we can just jump on our laptop at any time and just look up something online

and come up with ideas or textbooks and whatnot. We have Booktopia where we can get a membership for and everything like that, you know? So, but whereas, Fiji, like a lot of the textbooks actually use the physical. And most of these students have to carry like four or five textbooks throughout the day. If you have to pay for every single one of them, I don't think that's okay.

And especially if you're only going to use them for one year, what's really the point? And you can see why most of these students aren't actually going to school. They get drifted into like cigarettes and alcohol. And some of the people that I were talking to were like, we are going through a lot of stress. and that's why I'm smoking. I said, God, damn, like, if you think that smoking is the first response when it comes to dealing with stress. Yeah, there are no resources. Exactly, you know, like, there's such a big lack of education around that.

And I don't see enough, like, advertisements out or, like, notices or education bulletins out where it says that cigarettes are bad for you. There are more positive ways of dealing with stress than resorting to drugs and alcohol. And cigarettes are quite cheap there too. It's only like $12 for like a pack of 10 or 15 or something like that. Alcohol is cheaper as well, but obviously for that economy, it's quite expensive, but still more affordable than over here. So a lot more people have access to it. A lot more people don't have to show ID when they're going by alcohol or cigarettes. If you know someone, you can get it.

Fewer safeguards. Exactly, you know. So the system is very broken. And so hopefully one day I can go back home and I'm like do something about it. But I guess right now just getting experience as a social worker. It's probably the first step. Yeah, because when you do go back home, I wonder if it would have more legitimacy,

if you do have all the experience in Australia, coming from a system where the training, the education is fantastic, going back there, the reputation would be greater, I would imagine. Definitely. Yeah, like especially having that experience will be really beneficial because you will be able to actually practice where you've learned throughout the years. Decrease the amount of actual learning on the field

and actually applying the experience you already have. Yep. Which will save a bit of time as well. That's a goal for the future. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If anyone else wanted to know more about the type of work you're doing or the projects or programs you're working on,

where would you direct them? Are there any good resources, good training? meetings, websites, podcasts, anything really that you recommend. The projects that are working on particularly aren't really advertised, mainly because we are trying to get more members and stuff like that, reaching out community engagement, but a better idea of what the St. Vincent de Paul Society does as a whole, the Vinnie Society works on many projects, which are very important, like the Yes campaign. So most of that is either on LinkedIn or the actual website of the organization.

And if you go into the like the resources tabs, what's on at the moment and stuff, it'll show you what the actual society is working on. You won't actually give you a timeline as to what has happened in the past and what is going to happen, but it will give you a general idea of what is happening in that sense. LinkedIn is definitely one of the most active ones. If you follow the St. Vincent de Paul Society, I know there's the New South Wales version and then the other versions as well, you'll be able to keep track of what's happening in the different states. Yeah.

Yeah, nice. I can put links to those in the show notes so people can go off and do some reading. Awesome. Thank you. Just before we finish up, is there anything that we didn't get a chance to talk about? One of the things I want to talk about, and I don't know if I've talked about this before, this goes mainly out for like the social work students. most of us come from different backgrounds and we choose to study this social work degree, which sometimes our parents don't understand what it is or our family members.

Even my extended family, when I tried describing the work that I do to them at the wedding that I went to, because most of these people will ask you, like, son, like, what do you do for work? You know, like, how's work going and stuff? And when I actually did try describing it, a lot of the people don't understand. and I just want to say that if you're a social work student, don't feel discouraged, that you struggle to describe what you do for your job as a social worker. I think that if you work in a hospital, it's quite straightforward. Yes, like you work in this word, you do this social work, it's pretty good in terms of describing it.

But if you work as part of an NGO and you're always out in the field and out in the field as in like community engagement stuff, it's hard to give a timeline on that and it's hard to describe what you're doing in that current moment but yeah like don't feel discouraged we know that it's a four-year degree and you have two unpaid placements and the cost of living crisis is kicking all of us in the butt you know so it's tough to navigate around that a lot of my colleagues at university had families and stuff too i was lucky enough to be living under my parents roof when i was studying for a while so financially i wasn't too burdened and I did have my savings that I could fall back on. But if you have families and stuff, there's extra expenses and extra spending that you're financially obligated to. So yes,

we are pushing for paid placements and there are movements around that which are advocating for this. It may take some time, which is just how the system works. There's a lot of policies and processes you have to go through a lot of hurdles. A lot of people's minds you have to change to be able to achieve these positive outcomes. So yeah, I think that's one of the biggest things. And I know that a lot of my peers were quite discouraged when it came to unpaid placements because most of us either had to stop our jobs

when the workload became too much. And a lot of these organizations, they need people to keep working because that's the job. So they might not consider you taking a break. It's either like you can just find another job or something like that, you know? At least we managed to hold off the fee increase that was proposed. Because imagine if we had that plus the unpaid placements,

it just would have been untenable. People would have said, no, I'm going to study something else. 100%. 100%. It definitely gets too much. I think when it comes to like your placements itself, just use those placements to learn as much as you can. Yes, the university puts this responsibility on us,

which is we have to do this 400. than 600 hours, which is part of the course requirements, and that totals up to almost one year of studies. So fully indulge yourself in the placement and try to learn as much as you can because that will ultimately help you find a job. And especially in social work placements like the placement that I did with Sydney Alliance, you get to meet a lot of people from a lot of different organizations during the 600 hours. And building those connections and relating to people, the challenges that we are facing, people's needs, wants, what drives their passions, actually sitting down and listening to them, which goes back to my first point,

it is the best skill you can ever develop as a social worker, being present in that moment, especially with organizations like Sydney Alliance, because they have a lot of partner organizations. It is important to keep in touch because these are the people that will always reach out to these other organizations if they want to hire people. And being fresh into the scene of a social worker, just finishing your studies, and having that fresh kind of being the grasshopper in the scene, you know? You can learn a job as you go,

but the way you are as a person and the values you hold, those things are important, and those things are what organizations look for. If you're relatable, if you're relational, you know, like the values, whether you have compassion, you can practice empathy and stuff like that, you know. So you can learn a job wherever you got. That's the advice I try to give my younger cousins.

Just be a good person. Give it your best shot. And people will teach you the things that they need you to learn, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's such great advice. Thank you. Yeah.

Shelly, I find it really interesting that you came to social work with no prior understanding of what the profession was, but you found it through a recommendation, and you were able to really develop confidence as a fish out of water, as an absolute newbie, and really find and use your voice in that situation. And you built assessment skills through the suicide after care you were talking about earlier in the team collaboration.

And then you kind of moved between roles where there was some familiarity and crossover. So there was some familiar organizations, and familiar processes. And then in your more recent work, you've really been able to further develop your understanding and use of inclusive language to identify those gaps and create awareness.

And like you were saying, really listen to people and appreciate the diversity that they bring. I think you're a natural communicator. You don't shy away from challenging conversations. And I really feel like wherever you end up, as long as you're supporting, people to overcome barriers, you'll be satisfied in that work. So really looking forward to where it takes you. Thank you for those kind of words. Yeah, I think the fact that you've taken the time out

to listen to me is really appreciated as well. And you've been asking amazing questions too for follow-ups. So thanks for that. Yeah. I'm glad I can shine a spotlight on the work that you've done already. So thank you so much for your time. Thanks for joining me this week. If you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Shehill, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Please also let me know if there is a particular topic you'd like discussed, or if you or another person you know would like to be featured on the show. Next episode, we have a bit of a change to the regular structure of the podcast,

given that this will be the 100th episode of Social Work Spotlight, I wanted to do something special. So I've invited five previous guests to return to the podcast who were all very early on in their careers when we previously met, to let us know what they've been up to, where they are working now, and how they have developed personally and professionally. Join me for this very special milestone celebration as I speak again with Anna, Emily, Haley, Kate and Maddie.

I release a new episode every two weeks, please subscribe to my podcast so you are notified when this next episode is available. See you next time.