Social Work Spotlight - International Episode 23: Susana (England)

Episode Date: July 4, 2026

In this episode I speak with Susana, with over fifteen years working in frontline social care, as a social worker in children's and adults' services, and now as a Registered Manager for an independent fostering agency in England. Susana is also the creator of MyTappyPlace, a wellbeing platform designed specifically for frontline professionals.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:Frontline’s national fast-track social work training programme - https://thefrontline.org.uk/My Tappy Place - https://mytappyplace.co.uk/EFT Universe (High Energy Health Podcast) - https://eftuniverse.com/podcast/Lika Family Fostering - https://likafamilyfostering.co.uk/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YQU3DZV1lzdsKh6t_LIDzF3REDwTJe5A4a-P5FnOwI0/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Before beginning, I wish to acknowledge the traditional owners of the countries of guests featured in this podcast and acknowledge their continuing connection to land, waters and community. I pay my respects to the First Nations people, the cultures and the elders, past, present and emerging. Hi, and welcome to Social Work Spotlight, where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode, with a 12-month focus on social workers around the world as of August 2025. I'm your host, Yasmin Lupus, and today's guest is Susanna, with over 15 years working in frontline social care as a social worker in children's and adult services, and now as a registered manager for an independent fostering agency in England. Susanna is also the creator of My Tapie Place, a wellbeing platform designed specifically for frontline professionals. Thank you, Susanna, for meeting with me today. Very much looking forward to speaking with you about your experience with social work so far. Me too, thank you. Yeah, it's come around quick, hasn't it? It has. I remember it felt so long ago when you first messaged me and I thought,

oh, that's like so far in the future now we're here. Now we're here in person, which is lovely. I'd love to know firstly when you got started in social work, what brought it to the profession. I qualified in social work quite late, so in my late 30s, mid-30s actually, so that was about 10 years ago, 10, 11 years ago. But I had prior to that already been working in social care. I just wasn't qualified. I was doing like a social care assistant kind of job. And I felt very strongly that I'd hit like a glass ceiling and couldn't progress. But I also really couldn't afford to stop working and go to university. And the thing that brought me into that role in the first place was that I'd studied international development at university in my 20s with this idea.

and passion that I'd travel the world and save it one little bit at the time. I had this vision and then I went to like a really left-wing university that kind of really taught us how complex development work is and how it's not all good. And I realized that my vision of how I wanted to help people by getting around the world was really going to end up being me just imposing Western values onto different types of community so I don't really understand. And then I thought, well, how can I use my degree in a way that's useful? Because I really like the idea of working directly with people, creating change. And that's how I ended up in this like social work world without a degree in social work.

And then I was doing this social work job or social care job for a local authority for about 10, 12 years, I think, 10 years. And then I found out about a graduate scheme. So like a fast track scheme where you could qualify as a social worker whilst earning a bursary rather than having to go to university. I've heard about this recently. It's such a great initiative. Yeah. So the one I did was called Frontline and so it's a fast track like one year and you learn on the job. So the idea is that lots of social workers burn out really quickly. They go to university, have like a fairly sheltered experience whilst in university on their placements with like really reduced caseloads. And then once they start the job, they kind of burn out quite quickly and leave the professional together within

a number of years. And then the approach that front line took is you learn on the job so by the time that you're qualified, you've already been doing a year on the job and you're much more well equipped to, yeah, to be successful in the profession in terms of successful in that you can stay and hang on in there and have the resilience. So that's what I did back then. And yeah, I've never looked back. It was an amazing. I was a very, very tough experience. experienced in front line, but it was amazing as well. I think also condensing that practical element and the fast track learning into one year is a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have the support of colleagues or fellow students? How did you do that? Yes. Yes. So you were broken up into little

unit, so there were four of us with like a consultant social worker managing us. And I think those four of us that year, or it was like, yeah, it was a year. We were really, really close and really supportive with each other. I wouldn't say we had support from the wider team, like outside within the local authority. It was more just like that little group going through this really intense period together. And within the local authority that I was in, there were three of the little groups. So we had three units. So there was like us four, but until there were 12 of us who were kind of going through this experience together.

And that was invaluable support. And then I had a really supportive partner at home as well who, yeah, I don't know how our relationship survived it really because it was really tough because I was like working at daytime, working on assignments at weekends and evenings and it was a lot. But it was totally worth it, yeah.

Wow. Yeah. And what was the placement? Where were you stationed and what was sort of the responsibility you had there? I was in a local authority and it was in a child protection team. So what we were doing is really work with families whose children were either at risk of coming into care,

the children were maybe at risk of harm or neglect, and then it was working with those families to kind of either create change or follow a process of then going down the route of a child protection plan and then potentially deciding whether or not the children need to come into care. So it was all the frontline focuses on child protection work. So I had previously been working in adults. So that was a big leap for me because I never ever wanted to go into child protection. I was really scared of it. So that was the setup, that was the work. It was child protection work for the first year and then the second year,

the post-qualifying year, during which you also do your master's, but you're already a qualified social worker. For that year, I was then already in employment. I was in a children with disabilities team, which is a team that I had chosen to go into with the idea that I wanted to work with parents, who wanted to work with me. Because I was still struggling with the idea of being in child protection

and kind of pushing my way into, yeah. I remember you were trying to avoid from the actual... Correct. The development. Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's right. I'd never met that connection.

Yeah. You're right. So there was something like that just felt like breaking into something where it felt like breaking a barrier beyond the boundary that maybe wasn't for me to go in. And I understand the statutory, you know, I understood all of the legislation and why it's important and why it's important for children. I understood all of that. And yet the feeling was a real kind of wanting to not do that, wanting to help, but without forcing my way in.

Yeah. Yeah. And there are people that do want to do that work very badly. And I've never worked in that area. And I think good. I'm glad that there are people who want to because that's not me either. So you're working in social care with adults, disabilities is that? Oh, it was children still. It was children with disabilities because even the

second year you still had to do within the children's context. So it's like a two year, you qualify as a social worker after the first year, but then you do an additional year to get your masters in social work. And in the first year, they place you and then in the second year you work within the same local authority, but you're allowed to kind of apply for a team and maybe you get it, maybe you don't. So it's like an elective. So it was an elective, yeah. Lots of my colleagues went into like the assessment team, like the frontal chat protection assessment kind of referral and assessment team. And yeah, that wasn't going to be for me.

What did you anticipate social work was going to be like coming from working in supportive adult care previously? I thought I was just going to be two years. I do two years in children and then I'm out. And I'm back in adults doing what I really like. I used to work with like elderly people in hospital discharge and doing end-of-life care planning and working like really closely with families around. Working in a hospital?

Working in a hospital and then also in the community. So for some time I was in the hospital some years and then I was also a few years in like a community rehabilitation type team. Where I worked mainly with quite elderly people but it was anyone over 18 really. So their younger people might have been people with physical disabilities. who then also needed some sort of care package and support to maybe even do like their jobs or be supported in their parenting roles. So it was people who would be capable of being really good parents, but maybe there was some inner physical disability that where they needed a little bit of extra supports, for example, to get a child washed and dressed in the mornings,

but the rest of the parenting tasks they could completely do themselves. So that work. which I loved and I was sure that I would be returning to that. And now we're, what, 11 years on and I'm still working in children's. What I really have enjoyed about it is the complexity, like kind of that element of really deep analytical. The analysis was just much deeper and very different compared to the adult social work that I was doing. I think maybe you get that analysis in adult safeguarding, but the work that I was doing was really just assessing someone what you need, how many showers, how many, you know, quite routine care packages set up stuff.

Coming into children's social work, I was scared that I'd be working with a lot of really neglected and abused children with families who don't care. That's what I thought child protection work was going to look like. And actually, every family I worked with were doing that absolutely. best and I even though they didn't necessarily like me I learned something from each of them I absolutely I admired a lot of like their journeys like the context of how they came to be where they were at that moment in life like a lot of the families had gone through so much hardship and they

were still hanging on and trying their best and actually it was very different to what I expected and I was rewarding and not scary complex difficult. upsetting, difficult decisions, but I don't know. I had a view that was quite naive about just people who don't love their children and that's absolutely not, obviously, not what it is. And I can see now how that was really naive. But going into, that's what I was scared of. And that's not what I found at all.

Do you think your ability to see someone for the context of what's brought them to where they are now and their resilience is, a quality that is within you or do you think that's part of the social work training? I think it's both, actually. I think maybe if it's not within you, I don't know whether you can learn it. But definitely the training taught me a lot of that to really look at things from lots of different perspectives to really look at even a parent giving a child a slap at all the underlying kind of positive intentions underneath it, even if the act itself might not be something

one approves of or even if we say actually that's abusive or it's harmful, looking at what's underneath and what led to that moment, I learned that with the training. I don't think I could have, you know, the whole idea of reframing and looking at multiple realities that can coexist at the same time. That really came to life through the training. Yeah. And you mentioned when you were doing care prior to studying that you felt as though there was a ceiling, you couldn't sort of moved beyond that. What have you found now having gone through your training and starting to work and social work in terms of your opportunities? I think the training really opened so many doors for me. I never ever saw myself in a position like in a management position which is

where I'm at now. I never thought myself that wasn't capable. I didn't think I wanted it you know like a lot of the managers I worked with her just kind of number crunching on Excel sheets about visits and things and that's just never something I wanted to do I wanted to do the real stuff but actually I found there were so many other routes like you can be in a leadership position and inspire and do so many amazing things

and not be number crunching so I think it's opened up so many doors for me that I just didn't ever think possible all I really wanted when I started studying I used to see social work colleagues who had students and I was like, oh, I'd really like to have a student one day. That's like about as far as I could imagine myself at that moment in time. It's like, that would be a really nice thing to do to kind of guide someone one day a little bit.

And actually, certainly where I work now in this fostering agency where I am now, I've been really supported to grow and to find my passion and find my feet and kind of, all of us, I think, were really supported in this team to do what we're really, good out of what we really want or maybe go beyond the barrier of comfort to explore something we fancy but don't feel quite capable of and we really get supported to kind of push ourselves to be there. Is that through mentorship or shadowing how do you get those opportunities? We're a really small organisation. We haven't even talked about what you do. No, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's just how we're run. It's just how we are. It's our value base. It's not mentoring. It's just

where do we want to take the organization? Who fancies doing that? Or actually such and such foster carer once there's training, we haven't got it, okay, well, do you fancy delivering it? Do you fancy creating it? Because you've previously said you're interested in training. Oh, maybe, okay.

And then it just happens organically, I think. And it sounds like it's an ongoing dialogue as opposed to you have your professional development chat once a year with your superior kind of here. Yeah, it's like, again, it's the two things at the same time. So you've got that professional chat, the appraisal. But then also things organically happen where a need arises or a gap is evident. And then we figure out who would be best placed.

Or we might have conversations in the background about so-and-so it's probably ready to progress. Let's start maybe. Where have we got new tasks or new responsibilities? And then we think about maybe assigning that person to get them warmed up to kind of taking a little bit more leadership in something or a bit more responsibility in something. And then it kind of grows from there. and then you develop their confidence through that. And then maybe you plan the seed about how about this course, how about that course?

Yeah. And then if the person comes back, I'm absolutely not. I really don't want to do that. Then, yeah, great. Okay, maybe next year we'll revisit that conversation or in six months or in three months. Do you have an opportunity to supervise students? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been doing that for a few years now,

and I'm now supervising the staff member studying to have students. So I'm kind of overseeing the practice educators who are in training. I guide them to become practice educators. So I kind of do both, which is lovely. Sounds so rewarding. Yeah, I really enjoy it. And we love having students as well. They just bring such fresh ideas.

And it's just so lovely to inspire people and be really proud of what you do and what we do as an organization and give new social workers or upcoming social workers, an opportunity to experience what may be really good. It sounds like I'm really, we are really proud of what we do, an opportunity to experience what good social work can really be like and how you can be balanced at work and yes, it gets stressful. Yes, we cry. Yes, we get stressed.

Yes, we swear. All of those things happen. But actually then how we support each other through that as a team. Because for all of us here, that's not always been our experience in local. authority social work. So we're here together kind of giving it our best, that really leading with our values. Yeah. I find I learn so much from my own students as well. Yeah. Teach me something that maybe there's an emerging theory or practice or just a way of thinking about something. Yeah. Or what they do, which is really great and I encourage it, is they'll question me.

And they'll say, why did you make that decision or why did you write this that way? And that gives me an opportunity to reflect and stop and take stock, I guess, and say, oh, no one's really asked me that. Yes. Now I need to explain why. And in doing that, I get to think about actually, is there a better way of doing it? Yes, completely. Yeah.

I think that's what I love about it as well. Those opportunities to reflect and to draw all those different layers together that make up what social work is, isn't it? Like that human side, what is it that goes on in the relationship? Then beyond that, what's the theory that that? helps us make sense of that. And then beyond that, what's the statutory stuff that we need to consider when we've got all of this stuff going on in the relationship and connecting all of those dots? Because we go into autopilot sometimes, don't we? And students disrupt that a little bit.

That's a great one. Yeah. Disrupt. Yeah. Yeah. So tell me about the role. What is your role? What is the agency? Yeah. What do you do within it? And what do you enjoy about it? So I am a registered manager at a fostering agency called Laika Family Fostering. We're a really, really small agency. When I say small, I mean some agencies in the UK have hundreds of fostering households, or maybe 80 or something like that. We've got about 25 to 30 fostering households, I think. And we are currently there are five social workers in total on the team that includes the management team.

So we've got two supervising social workers, me as the registered manager and then the two directors. So what we do as a fostering agency, I guess, is we recruit foster carers. Well, that means it's like, I don't know how it works in other countries, but when local authorities have children who need to come into care because they've been removed from their families, usually local authorities have their own pool or foster carers who they place the children with. But sometimes they don't have enough foster carers. Sometimes they don't have foster carers who can meet the needs of that particular young person. And at that point, they commission external agencies to then where they can place their children with the foster carers who are working with that fostering agency.

So we take a systemic family therapy approach and a really trauma-informed and therapeutic parenting approach. So we work on really evidence-based therapeutic ideas, which all of us are passionate about and all of us love. But it takes a certain type of person, a foster carer, of person to become a foster carer who can fostering in that way. And it's a long learning curve, you know, you can have the skills and the values within you and then still it's going to take time to get to a point

where you really get it as a foster carer. and we're really lucky to our fantastic foster carers on board who are on that journey with us and they accept that. Things take time. You might also have someone who's a fantastic foster carer, but perhaps they're not as great or confident working with the system. Correct. So you need to be able to recognize that and foster that part of it.

And it's balancing all of those things, isn't it? Yeah, completely. And then my role as a registered manager is I supervise the social workers on the team. I oversee all of the safeguarding practice. I guess I oversee all of the social work practice, including the safeguarding stuff. That would include any safeguarding issues arising for children, but it might also include safeguarding issues relating to foster carers, which thankfully is rare, but obviously does happen.

As part of that, I also help to create and deliver training for our foster carers and our staff, which I really, really enjoy. So we kind of look at emerging themes from either the young people who are in placement or feedback from foster carers and then we think about, okay, what other training data we need to create? And then we decide amongst us who's going to do which training day. Those are probably the main duties that I have, kind of supporting and supervising the social workers, delivering training, overseeing safeguarding, making sure that the whole agency is kind of working in line with our policies and processes. procedures and I update those as well and make sure that everything's running smoothly, I guess. Yeah.

So it sounds as though you're not responsible for the actual removal of, or decisions related to removal of children from their families, but you would probably then work with whatever other statutory body because there might be a chance of returning to family. Completely, exactly like that. So we work really closely with the local authority social workers. So a foster carer has their own social worker, which is a social worker from our team, a supervising social worker. And then the child placed with that foster carer has their own social worker who's a professional from the local authority. So quite often we need to meet on a regular basis to discuss things like education, care plan, behaviors that may be tricky and how we're going to address those.

And then we talk to the different professionals who've known that child way before we've become to know that child. that child might come to us at age 12, but they may have been in care since they were two years old. Yeah. So we work really closely with professionals from the local authority, from education, health teams and other like safeguarding teams and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Do you work with any kinship carers?

Yes, yes, we do actually, yes. So some, and sorry, you were saying about some children do return. So we work really closely with families actually and where possible we, I think last year we facilitated either two or three returns home. And some of our foster carers are kinship carers. Yeah, I think we've got one who's a kinship carer and I think we've got one who are currently assessing who's already got a kinship placement who's coming to us with her grandchildren who are living with her. How does that caseload compare with, in terms of ratio of workers to families, it sounds as though you've got a really good fit as opposed to some of the other larger organizations with more foster

Yes, I don't know about other fostering agencies, what their caseloads are. And I think the local authority where I used to work is probably also not a good example because they were all the way at the other end of the spectrum. So as a newly qualified social worker, I had 30 families allocated to me with really complex because at that point it was a disabilities team. I didn't know anything about, for example, autism. And I had about 10 children with really severe autism. on my caseload and I didn't understand. It was a lot. So I've gone from, you know, from that

compared to here, our social workers carry between 10 and 12 caseload of 10 to 12 foster carers. But we review it all the time because sometimes we've got some foster carers who, for example, can take three children and then you might have three children with different social workers at different schools. That brings its whole range of our meetings with it so we look at the caseloads a bit more of course because one broad isn't necessarily one child yes it's one family yes right or you've got foster carers who are really capable at doing the administrative side you know it just comes to them really easily because they do stuff like that at work all

the time they just do their all the admin side they do all the training and then you've got other carers who really need a lot more support with that side they're really good at the parenting side but actually maybe they need a lot of support with some other aspects of fostering. That takes time for that worker then to spend that time and to explain and to go through stuff. So you could have one carer who creates an amount of work

that's the same as three carers over here who are really experienced and find certain, or who have a baby in placement. And you're not constantly reporting a child missing or taking them to hospital for things like self-harm which then brings other safeguarding meetings you know so yeah you said you deliver training to foster carers yes what are sort of some themes or similarities in terms of what their education needs are i think because of how focused we are on

therapeutic parenting approaches so really teaching people to think about children's behaviors as communication rather than being naughty or irritating or manipulative. So I think a lot of the training we do, a lot of the themes are around that, around really getting to the bottom of understanding the root cause of what's happening here and maybe a behaviour like breaking and smashing stuff is about something completely different than just wanting to annoy you. So a lot of the themes that we deliver training on are around that, around kind of even safeguarding, challenging behaviours. The common things, the common things that, theme within all of those is that underneath is that need of a child who's had their really most

basic needs neglected at a very young age. I think that's a common theme that runs through it and how we need to be really curious and open-minded and stay really calm even if we're really annoyed inside and how to maybe provide strategies to find that calmness in a time when you're really frustrated or when you want to scream because a young person gets home at 3am and you didn't know where they were and the foster carer has been worried sick all night. All they want to do is probably, you know, like really tell them off. Yeah. But actually we tell them, make a cup of tea and some toast and tuck them in and be really, you know.

Yeah, it's enforcing that safe space. Yes. Yeah. So it's kind of reassuring a lot of the training we do, I think, is about holding those two positions at the same time. of it's okay to feel this way, but to be a therapeutic parent, you need to respond this way. And both of those things can coexist. That doesn't mean, if you're responding like that, it doesn't mean that you're being lenient. It doesn't mean that you're being not taken seriously, that you're being taken for a ride by this

young person. It means you are there for them. You're showing them something they've never experienced before. It means they can come home safe rather than going to stay hot even later. I think those are the common themes, because that runs through safeguard. through behaviors, through de-escalation, through recording how you record your logs, you know, it's again explaining, this is how responded and this is why. So being able to give that rationale, teaching people to be really intentional and evidencing

that. I think that's the criminality that runs through all of them. Yeah. And they're probably really benefiting from having that reassurance from you and your team because they're, I'm sure, thinking in the back of their minds, how I respond is going to be scrutinized. So it's not just them responding, it's them thinking how I respond makes an even bigger impact, not just for the person that I'm supporting, but for the agency. So it's a lot of work trying to keep all that in your mind as you're already emotionally heightened. Completely. Yeah. Yeah. Do you then not have a caseload? It sounds as though. Correct. Yeah. I don't. Yes. Do you miss that at all? So that's an interesting question because recently, so we had three social

workers and that short notice that became two social workers. So as a management team, the two directors and myself, we decided that we didn't want that to have a negative impact on the rest of the team. So we've split the caseload between us. So currently we're all doing all of it. We're all kind of case managing as well as doing the strategic and organizational and safeguarding stuff. So normally I don't and wouldn't hold a caseload and it's not a long-term solution. because it gets a bit tricky than in complex when you're working closely with someone, where then potentially, for example, if concerns popped up, you're then also overseeing and making management decisions,

but you're doing the casework directly yourself. I can muddy the waters. So it's a short-term solution until we've got someone. But normally I wouldn't have a caseload. I do sometimes miss it. I do sometimes miss it. But I think because of how small we are, we all eventually get involved because we're a really supportive team so when I start members on leave

for example and they say oh these are the visits that are going to be due who can help like we plan these things in advance and then we might just be like yeah I can do that visit to so and so tomorrow it just so happens at the town that I live in which is yeah it's about 50 kilometers away from London one of our foster carers parents lives in the same town as me so tomorrow I'm going to do their home visit because the foster child is staying with them over the Easter holidays. So we all kind of chip in anyway. We're so small that it does have a real family feel that everyone knows everyone in the agency. Everyone knows they can pick up the phone and call me as a registered manager if they can't get through to their social worker.

And it's not going to be stepping on anyone's toes because I might just say, well, just wait until she's back. Or I might give them an answer. And yeah. That's so healthy. Yeah, yeah. It's, again, it's that real organic feel. Like, it's being really values led without being kind of forgetting, you know, still having the boundaries, still having the roles and the hierarchy, because that needs to be in place in terms of oversight. Me having oversight over the cases, my managers and the directors having a strategy for where the agency is going, they wouldn't have the headspace to do that if they were involved in the direct casework. but actually there's so much better able to do that when they understand what's happening

for the foster carers in the ground and our foster carers can tell the director and it happens even last week where they said this and this and this and this is really irritating, this and this and this and this really works for me and it's that direct feedback and it's okay let's learn from it how can we change it

or do we need to change it? Is that maybe something that we need to help you with or is it something that we need to change? And I'm guessing that also building on things that perhaps were lacking in previous organizations or agencies, so you can kind of take that experience and learn from it. Yes. Yeah.

And sometimes we, like you say, we learn from that as well, so sometimes we get so over-involved and we realize something was just too much and we need to step back. We used to have WhatsApp groups for every foster carer and everyone used to answer and get involved. That would just get overwhelmed. It was coming. And you're trying to respond to something that was 20 discussions? back. Yes, and you'd come in on a Monday and there'd be 200 new, you know, messages on your phone and it was too much. So we were trying to be supportive, but it was overwhelming for everyone

and unhelpful. So we're constantly reviewing as well. You know, sometimes we're getting into our patterns and then we realize, ah, this isn't good. Let's shift that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a bit a Band-Aid moment sometimes for a foster care when they think, I'm losing the WhatsApp group. but equally it's like you can do this and you've got your supervising social worker and you're capable and you don't need 10 people telling you how and what to do next because you've got this. Yeah, nice. Yeah. I was listening to a podcast the other day and it was actually recorded on Women's Day which kind of coincided with International Social Work Day.

Yes. It was on BBC Sounds and they were talking about women in social work but social work in general and how I think it's 84% maybe of UK social workers or women. Wow. That was kind of the context, and that's very similar to the Australian context as well. And one thing that the presenter was saying is, in her understanding, there aren't senior social workers, there aren't roles for senior social workers.

So how do you see that ceiling that you were perhaps talking about in the social care sphere? And I was trying to yell down my phone. It was recorded live and they did have people who were writing in and commenting or asking questions or whatever it was. There was someone from social work England and then there was someone who worked in a palliative care setting. And so they were who the presenter was talking to but then she was inviting people to write in. And she was saying this about no senior social workers and I was thinking, what do you mean? And then she went to the palliative care social worker and the social worker said, I've never wanted for anything. I feel like I have the opportunity to do this and that and this and I can diversify and I'm the

only social worker who works in palliative care in this district. And so I've got so much freedom and ability to be autonomous and do the things that I need to do. I don't feel as though there's a ceiling. But what you're saying is that social work is not just, although it's so important, it's not just on the ground doing the stuff with the people. There are so many more opportunities that having done the degree has afforded you. Yes, completely. And I also think on that, I think it is really important to have a management structure

for accountability as well. I think sometimes you can feel so alone and so stuck and sometimes sharing that responsibility and that decision-making with someone else who you can almost like offload it to and make a joint decision with and they can reassure you. You know, there are so many times when I feel like, just today I felt really like torn about where I stand on whether a young person is still a match

for a particular foster carer. And it was so helpful to speak to my manager and I said, you know, I'm clearly being influenced by the fact that my role is a safeguarding role, but I'm also case managing this person at the moment because the social worker is no longer around, but actually got concerns about whether safeguarding procedures are being followed. But I feel about that a certain way because I'm responsible for the safeguarding procedures. So I'm now questioning, where am I coming from if I'm deciding, is this still the right place for this young person or not? I've got all of these other inner dialogues going on like off-stead inspection, safeguarding procedures, dun, dun, dun, dun, done, done. And then suddenly I'm forgetting that like actually this young person's lived with this carer for a number of years.

And yes, everything else is falling apart, but she's the only, if that fails, then he's definitely going to go. go downhill. But I was coming from a point of view of, but I'm responsible for safeguarding and I don't know if she's doing it and this is going to be a big mess if something goes wrong. And my manager reminded me, yes, that is your role, but you're evidencing that you're doing everything that you can. And still, from a young person-led perspective, this is the best possible place for him, even if we've got someone who's not following the procedures. And that reassurance sometimes, obviously I could also have a different type of managers. Like, yes, absolutely not. We need to make sure the safeguarding procedures are in place. Let's end the placement. But I needed that feedback because I was really half half.

I was like, I don't want him to go, but I'm also really worried about I'm staying. So I think hierarchies can be really helpful in that way in terms of sharing accountability. But your original question was in terms of the opportunities it's opened up to me, I think I already had a level of transferable skills before I trained to be a social worker, but I wouldn't have been able to apply them in the sense of then developing my career to a point where I was a registered manager of an organisation that just would have never happened. I mean, for me, luckily, the organisation that I did my degree through the frontline organisation, they also run something called an innovation, they've got lots of things open, lots of training and opportunities for their alumni

network. And it's through that that I then did. I think we spoke about it before about my little passion project that I'm doing on this side, which we can talk about in a little bit. But I think, again, like doing the degree and doing it through that particular organisation really has opened doors for me in terms of I've delivered training through frontline on motivational interviewing. Like I've gone back to university, to the uni, to then help deliver the training for the new students. It's like there's a real sense of developing leadership skills, and it doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're a senior or in a management position. But you can be a leader or you can be in a leadership kind of position, which could just mean that you're a pioneer and something.

And kind of daring to even think to that place, I think that's something that's something that doing the degree did for me. I think previously I was just doing a job that I enjoyed and I really wanted to qualify and kind of keep doing it. But since then, seeing the impact that my role has had, it makes me more and more passionate about thinking about, okay, what other training can we do? How can I support my staff? How can we create a team who did a da-da-da-da. It goes back to that thing that you were asking me before where you said, is it was a little? within you or did the training help you kind of understand that goodness in people and it's almost like that training helped me understand even that in me like I didn't think that I was capable and I see

that even with our staff members when they're struggling when they're thinking why am I even in this profession this is awful I'm having a really terrible time and I just see so much potential in them and I can remind them it's a moment in time and yes it's hard but it will pass and you don't need a label of senior social worker for that yes exactly Yeah, and you're fantastic. And this is why, and right now it feels really rubbish, and I can't take that away from you, but you're going to look back at this time,

and you're going to be somewhere else. I think also with social workers, we're so inclined to have imposter syndrome and think, are we the best person to be doing this right now? We're doubting ourselves. And for you to step back and say, well, actually, yes, you're doing everything right, is helping them and helping them to stay in the profession

and when everything else is just really crappy. Yes, yeah. And I think I really love being that person who is approachable in those moments and who keep, I think for all of us in the team, it's not just me, I think with all of us. There's a real, you know, we cry together. Sometimes we'd like to breath work

or like lying on the floor and crying. We laugh, just knowing that you've really got a team around you who can be yourself. with and I think certainly for one of my colleagues I remember one year we did this kind of exercise of like writing a letter to yourself in a year's time like writing some goals done for this year and for her it was being authentic like being her authentic self and she's always been a fantastic social worker but I really saw that shift I really saw that kind of her coming out of and really showing that emotion where previously she'd worked in a local authority for for quite a long time and

and just kind of needed to show the brave face all the time, which is really softened around the edges, and it's just really lovely to see someone feeling able to peel off those unhelpful layers of hard, mask, and actually it's okay if you don't. That's fine. Human. Yes. I saw that you've done some additional training in leadership,

which I'm sure has helped in what you're doing, what you're talking about. How do you feel having done the international development studies has helped you as a social, worker do you see because you said transferable and I don't think that just accounts for the social care that you were doing pre-course oh that's an interesting question I think the combination of the international development with my story of growing up in different I grew up in Venezuela and in Germany from parents who were born in Venezuela but were originally you know grandparents are Spanish and German I've been from so many generations of people who grew up and lived in places that they weren't from,

like global nomads, I think the combination of that really opened mine, my family's kind of views to, and even down to being multilingual, from a young age, I've seen things in different possible ways. So you might have someone, like we've got some Spanish-speaking foster carers, or native Spanish-speaking foster carers. And I remember one day, one of the of them came up with an expression that he said, oh, I see what you're doing behind the curtains. And my colleague said, what would you know? Why was he peeking in on those people behind the curtains? And I was like, no, I think what he means is just like, I can see you doing this, but behind the scenes is what he means. So it's like from a young age, I think I had this understanding

that there are different ways of understanding one thing. And I think the development studies cause really the idea of like grassroots kind of level change. And, sustainability and kind of really getting stuck in with people and understanding things from their point of view before you find a solution. I think that's something that course really taught me that really resonated with me from just the way I grew up because I felt like I really got it. I've always felt like I've understood people or situations or wanted to understand them like from their point of view. And I think that development studies course really honed in on the importance of doing that, that unless you do that, all you're doing is assuming and basically

modern day imperialism is what they called it. You know, if you go in and you're just like saying, that's just the problem, this is the solution, you're just colonising, you're not helping, you're not developing, you're not creating sustainable change. And I think that's what we're doing here as well. In fostering, yes, you can shout at the child for coming home late and maybe they won't come home late again. But it's only because they're doing here. than complying with you rather than because I've learned a lesson. And it's that difference, I think. So maybe that's one of the things that through that development studies course,

combined with just my own value base, is something that has carried through and that I still kind of see happen every day or live by every day maybe at work. Would you consider living and working in another country? Oh, you know what? I would love to and then I'm not scared of more of it. I've done it so many times. I've more of countries and learned languages and lived in other places so many times. I absolutely would. What would hold me back is the fact that I have a family. So how would that work for my son?

And the idea of like losing being able to work here. I can't see myself leaving like any time soon because I feel really at home and I don't know where I could find some things. like it. That's really special. Yeah. Sounds like it's a perfect fit. Yeah, yeah. I feel like I've really found my little niche. Well, let's talk about my Tapie Place. Yeah. What was this brainchild? How did it come about?

And what are you doing? Where are you up to with it? Yeah, so my passion project, my Tapie Place, is still in development. I'm hoping to launch it in a few, maybe six, eight weeks, something like that. And it's going to be an app specifically for social. workers to help them manage moments of overwhelm and anxiety and it uses tapping technique called EFT tapping or emotional freedom techniques tapping where you tap different areas of your body and your head in your face whilst you're saying certain phrases about the thing that is making you feel anxious so you might be

saying even though I'm really scared right now because I don't know what's going to happen with this child who's been missing for two weeks I accept myself anyway. So you do that by tapping and it helps. It's got an evidence base to really help manage and reduce the physical symptoms of overwhelm and anxiety. So your heart racing, your stomach hurting, whatever your symptoms might be, when you do this tapping and you say these phrases about what you're feeling at the same time, it has a really, really quick effect to kind of bring you down. The way that came about was because, what was it, August 24, so one and a half years ago. My son had a really horrible accident at home and he nearly died.

And thankfully my husband and I were there and we actually had to and managed to save his life. And he's okay now if anyone's worried and wondering. He's doing really, really well. But he was really traumatised after the accident. And I really got something shifted for me in terms of work. in terms of really getting the therapeutic parenting. Like I knew it all in terms of theory and understanding it and the evidence and da-da-da-da. I knew it all.

I could give advice on it, but I'd never had to do it myself until that point. And then I started having to do it. And I was like, ah, okay. But it also really clicked. Like, I had to do it and we just did it. But what happened was that that incident in itself caused PTSD for myself, for all of us in the family, really. And I was carrying this lump of anxiety and fear.

I think I was carrying the fear of the moment, the moment of not knowing whether I was doing enough to save him. It's like I couldn't shake that fear and I carried it for months. But then I was also parenting this child who was struggling on a huge scale who was presenting exactly like the children I work with, even though what led to it was very different, not neglect abuse. It was a one-time event and still. And a few months after this accident, a very good friend of mine

booked as a, like a wellness retreat for a weekend, and whisked me off to, like, just the countryside with some 10, 12 other women. And one of the facilitators of this retreat said, oh, I'm offering three EFT sessions for everyone here. Everyone can have one. I'd never heard of it, didn't know what it was, but I just thought I'm lapping everything up.

that I get. I'm a sponge. I'm here to get myself feeling better. Yeah. And I walked into this session with this woman, really not even knowing that it was about tapping. Like, I knew nothing. I didn't know what was going to come. And she asked me, if you got a thing that you want to talk about an instant you're just already blubbing. Yes, you know, my son's accident. And then she started talking me through the different tapping. We did the tapping and I had to say the different sentences and it felt a bit silly at the beginning and a bit awkward. I felt like, oh, I'm talking here to the stranger tapping on my face saying that I love and accept myself anyway, despite the fact that I'm feeling awful and that just feels really strange to do. Yet at one point

she asked me, what are you still feeling? What's still left over? And I said, I'm still holding on to that fear. I still kind of go off the fear, that feeling that I felt when I didn't know if I was doing enough to save his life. And then she said, okay, repeat after me. So she gets me to say, thank you, fear, you served me well, but I don't need you anymore. So I said that sentence, and I had a physical reaction. It was like someone ran a power shower across my back, and something just went swish for like a second. It was just one, and my chest felt lighter. And I said to her, what was that? It's like something happened to me physically there.

She said, what was it? Then I was like, I don't know. And she's like, how are you feeling now? Where is the fear now? And I was like, and I was trying to, because she said, located in your body. Because initially it's like, it's my throat. And then it's like, I'm feeling it in my chest, you know, that feeling off when you're going to cry. And she's like, where is it now?

And I was like, I can't find it. Like, it's gone. And I just became instantly fascinated with it. And I thought, I want to learn how to do this. this because I need this in my life. And then kind of slowly getting better on my journey, PTSD recovery journey, still working every day, having my son at home with his kind of own trauma. And I kept thinking, I really want to start using this for work because actually work was

then triggering me. I was finding myself when foster carers, especially those who were talking about children who were self-harming and who the foster carer maybe had to restrain a child to save their life, I found myself getting really, really triggered and I hadn't still got over it yet. And I thought, how can I use this EFT stuff without having to pay 50 pounds for a session, but I also use it for work rather than for my accident. And I kept trying, and there are apps, the right free EFT apps out there. But none of them had the kinds of sessions that I wanted for work.

And that's what then got me thinking, oh, if only I had an app, an EFT app for social work situations. And then I got this opportunity, this opportunity came up where frontline, where did the social work degree through. They have a thing called the innovation program. So they were emailing everyone kind of saying, final call, you know, deadline, fast approaching. And I just saw it's a silly idea. Like it's not going to get in. But in our way, on the last, oh, we've extended the deadline. I was like, okay, fine.

I'm just going to apply. That's the signal you needed. Yeah, it was that last thing. And I spent like not even that long. I was just like, this is my idea. The writer all down had no idea about how it would work or anything. I was just like, this is what I feel I need. And I haven't got it.

And then I go in. And then I really fine-tuned it and developed the idea through the innovation program. It kind of helps you figure out, is there a need? What is the problem? How does your product or your idea or your project solve that? problem. So everyone had lots of different things. Mine was a tech thing. Other people had like drama group for children in care, someone else doing something for CrossFit gyms, for children at the edge of care, lots of different types of projects. So through that, I've kind of

learned how to develop a business idea and I found a AI platform. So I'm actually building it myself because AI is amazing and I've not even got like an app developer I'm I'm chatting to a chatbot and making an app so yeah so I'm in the final stages now but I've started delivering some workshops at conference a couple of weeks ago and some kind of organizations I've started contacting me and I deliver like bite-size one hour sessions to teams and the feedback has been amazing like people find it really helpful. And I do it here with my team when they're getting really stressed out. I'm like, come on, let's go. We come into this little booth and let's do a bit of tapping. And we do like 10 minutes and just help people just calm down. And I'm just really passionate about it. I say it's a

business, but it's like a, it's really a passion project. It's really my vision is that EFT can be just a mainstream tool that you learn during your social work training. Like why are we learning this stuff? Yeah. I guess we don't care, your responsibility. Yeah. How do we support you to practice? Yes. Yeah. Because it's so easy. Like that moment before you knock on the door and your heart is sinking because you don't want to do the visit but you have to. Because you're scared that you might find the very thing that you really don't want to find. Maybe that abusive parent is still at home or the cup it's still aren't filled with food even though you gave money last week or whatever it is, you know, when that fear kicks in or you're lying in bed at night. sleeping because you're worried. Yeah. So that's my little big side project at the moment that I'm hoping, yeah, that I'm really hoping will take off because I think it will really, really support people. Yeah. Yeah. That's really exciting. Yeah. How do you not let it consume all of your energy? How do you kind of compartmentalize it? I'm very lucky that I do a four-day week,

always have done since working in this job at Laika. And I actually had an EFT session because as part of the training, you kind of do these swaps, so you kind of swap sessions. And I had this real dilemma of well, do I continue on this journey with my tapy place when actually I'm really happy at work and I'm not planning on leaving. And so I decided to do one session on that with this other person where I was giving her EFT and she was giving me EFT. And I came to realize that I can just do it at my own pace and I've got Fridays off and it's still a little bit of my self-care day. So I try to still go to the gym and I pick my son up at three from school and whatever's between those hours, I try to do my tapy place and then sometimes when I deliver those bite-sized sessions I use my

lunch hour but I figure I work through my lunch hour anyway most days. So it's not an additional exhaustive thing for me. I think that's how I'm managing and I've really kind of boundary that I'm not doing it at the weekends. I was at the beginning and it was just taking over and I was trying to do stuff on Instagram because everyone tells you need to do it on Instagram and it just really wasn't very rewarding. I was spending all this time doing stuff on Instagram

getting three likes and nothing came of it. And I just thought, but you need to do it to realise it. So it's become really boundaryed off like actually what's working is I talk to people on LinkedIn about it. That's how we connected on LinkedIn. LinkedIn so actually that's where I've got a base of people who are interested I'm not going to try and influence people on an Instagram where actually hundreds of thousands of people are so much better at doing that stuff than I am and it's not your audience it's not my audience conferences are

great as you mentioned things like that and I feel so awkward doing it I really don't like it hi guys da da da da da and it's just really not me and I think that comes across as well and it's just like that I don't need to I get someone one day when a And if the app is successful and if it grows a little bit enough for me to get someone and for a few hours a week, I can get someone else to help me with that. So that's how I let it not consume me. I think that's been a bit of a learning journey in itself kind of realizing that it doesn't need to compete.

It doesn't compete with my current role and it doesn't need to compete with my family life. And it doesn't need to compete with my well-being because it's on my timeline. It's a one-man show at the one-woman show. So you're not putting pressure on yourself for me. No, yeah, yeah. Hopefully by the time this episode comes out, the app will be ready. Maybe.

So I can put a link in the show notes maybe for people to either contact you, to learn more about it or to go off and find it. That would be amazing. And trial it because I think the more people who do trial it, the more feedback you get, the better the app becomes. Yes. You can adapt, adjust. Completely, completely.

And generally, even just for people who have any questions about how EFT works or how they might use it in their organization, you know, aside from the app. Because, yeah, that is really what I'm passionate about. It's not about the success of the app, but just about, hey, let's all, you know, just like everyone, maybe not everyone, but lots of people do yoga now, and it's not a weird thing about 30 years ago. It'd be like a real kind of hippie to be doing yoga. And now it's like, actually, you know, it's really good, everyone likes it.

You can do it or leave it. That's where I wanted to get to. Yeah. Is that innovation program only for people who have gone through the... Yes, yes. Or who are somehow linked to it, I think. I think they also accept, actually, I think they also accept applications from care experience people. So people have ideas?

Yes. Float them with someone at least. Absolutely, yeah. So you don't even have to, I believe you don't even have to be a social worker. Like if you're just a care experienced person and you have an idea, an innovative idea. an innovative idea that can support either the social work profession or children and families. That's what they're looking for. Wow.

Yeah. I was speaking with an amazing social worker Daniel in Canada and he stopped the practical work and he created his own business which was care leavers or care experienced people then providing mentorship and training to people currently in care. And that over time has gotten to a point where. now he's got a cohort of care experienced people who now have the experience running this program who can then train the next genet. That's amazing.

That's an amazing idea. It is an amazing idea. Just outside the box. But when you said care experienced people, why not harness that energy and that experience into? I think there are so many more brave conversations now. I say brave. I find it brave. But maybe the person who's doing it doesn't find it brave.

maybe they find it important or necessary. But I think we're so much more open now compared to, for example, when I was growing up, you know, where there were so many stigma attached to so many things, including something like being care experienced or having been to prison or whatever. Whereas I think now there's a real openness, at least from some parts of society, to really listen to that expertise and understand that someone who's experienced something is much more an expert than an area. You know, someone who's been in prison

is going to be much more likely to be able to influence the people are still in prison to want to make a change versus someone who's just done a degree in it, for example, you know. And I say that even for myself, you know, even when I speak to my foster carers, I think I was as good maybe previously in the job in giving the advice about therapeutic parenting, etc. Like I knew the stuff,

but now like I get it I'm not just someone who is helping but I'm also almost like a person who is a peer in that way no I'm not a foster carer correct but I know how hard it is to have zero resilience left in you zero resources left and you still need to keep going while as parenting a traumatized child and what energy that consumes and what it creates in your relationship and how with your partner or your husband and how you know if we weren't a super teen That would have been the end of our relationship, but it was really, really tough. And I think you can be really good at listening to someone and acknowledging that. But when I hear it as a professional, I hear it differently now.

Like I feel it in my bones, whereas previously I just heard it and gave the advice. And now it's like I speak to it from experience. It just feels different. Yeah. Yeah. And it does make me better than my colleagues. It's just different. It's just a different perspective that I've got now that I didn't have before, I think.

Sure. Yeah. Are there any great resources you might point people to in terms of EFT, maybe people who have already written widely or spoken about how the support benefits people and where it's come from? I think there are a number of EFT apps out there. Personally, I found one of them, even though to an element free, there's lots of free sessions available.

I find it really overwhelming because they had like thousands of sessions on there. But I think if anyone were curious about it, I think that's a really good starting point in terms of learning about it. And there are actually, if someone's interested in EFT, there's a couple of documentaries that I watched when I first found out about it. There's also a podcast called EFT Universe, something like that. I'll find out. Because otherwise you're just Googling and then you think,

got this world of knowledge and you don't know where to start. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's where I was, where I was trying to find out about it. And there's just like, oh, there's so much information. I just, and then I just thought, okay, I'm just going to train to become an EFT practitioner because I want to have this in my life. And I want to be able to do this with my son. And he loves it.

He's sometimes when he can't sleep, he'll be like, can you do some tapping on me? So I tap on him and I'll say the things. And he doesn't want to say the braises himself, but he'll tell me, he'll say, oh my can you tell the tapping to say it's effectively still saying it whilst I'm tapping on his body and then I'll just repeat it which is really lovely that's the other thing I love about it

is like it's so easy to use even with children when they're really dysregulated and they don't have to understand you don't have to be overly academic about it you can just tap on certain places of your body I think maybe that's the first resource it's like if you're feeling overwhelmed you can just tap like this on your collar bones

and just breathe. And that in itself, we're like really, really calmly down. Yeah, yeah. That's so great. Yeah. I feel like I could chat with you forever. But in the interest of time, is there anything that I haven't asked

that you think I should have or anything else that you wanted to say about your work or social work in general? I think when I'd read in your questions, one of the questions was, what do I find particularly rewarding or something like that? And I think for me, I think one of the most rewarding things about being a social worker is when you see change happen, either for a young person or for a foster carer or for their relationship, or seeing a young person return home, when you see, you know, that all those difficult conversations you've had are having a fruitful effect. Or when, you know, when one of my foster carers, I remember when I was the supervising foster carers,

when she called me to say that the young person who had previously been placed with her, which ended like really badly because she just really didn't want to be there. And it was quite a traumatic experience for the carer at the time. Something like two years later, she called her. She called the foster carer on the phone and said, I just want to thank you so much for everything you did. I couldn't appreciate it at the time. But actually, I get now that this is what you were doing and you were really there for me.

And by the way, I started that course and I am an air hostess now. And oh, and those moments just like even now just talking about it, it gives me goosebumps. And I think those moments, what a love about the work, like actually seeing that what we do works, even if we don't get to see the results, like knowing that we're planting seeds and maybe some of these seeds won't flourish until when this eight-year-old is 28 and raises their own child or is in a relationship or has a conversation with their manager at work, whatever it might be that the seeds that we're planting now create a really meaningful change for people,

even if we don't get to see it. I think that's what I love the most about the work that we do. It reminds me of something someone else said recently about we don't do it for the applause. If you're waiting for the applause, you're going to be waiting for a while. Yes. Yeah. So it's about, as you said, just laying the foundation and trying to, look at what's in front of you in the moment.

Yeah. And do the best that you can with that. Yeah, yeah. That's lovely. Yeah. Dig up for the applause. I like that. But you've had such a great amount of experience,

even, you know, from that physical rehab space that you were in originally and then doing international development and social care that's then led you into wanting to do something a little bit more. And you knew that you had capacity. You knew that you had more ability and you wanted to see. where that could take you. And it is daunting going back and studying and doing without income, but great that the bursary was there.

That program exists because that's a huge barrier for so many people who want to study social work and it's the same in Australia. If you have done a previous qualification, you could then do the Masters of Social Work qualifying, which is just the two years at the end of the Bachelor. And you get a Masters, which is the equivalent of the Bachelor, but you're not getting paid for that. There are scholarships for that that I'm aware of. So it's wonderful that that exists and that's what we need to get people into the profession.

Yeah. Who can be as passionate as you are about it and want to then further their own learning and professional development. Yeah. Eventually end up in management senior roles because they do exist and they are rewarding and fulfilling. Yes. There's so much more that we can be doing. So I'm so glad that you've been able to demonstrate that and show us not just the practical clinical work, but then also your own initiative with my Tapie Place.

Yeah. I'm excited to see how that develops as well. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, me too. Thank you again so much for chatting with me. Oh, thank you too. Yeah, so good to meet you, finally. Yeah.

Thanks for joining me this week. If you would like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or Susanna, please visit my anchor page at anchor.fm.fm slash social work spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Blue Sky, or you can email SW Spotlight Podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Next episode's guest is Theo in Greece, with experience in refugee settings

and now supporting people with disabilities. Theo is passionate and motivated to work with people in need, believing strongly in the power of community, working next to people and for the people. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you'll notify when this next episode is available. See you then.

Thank you.