Social Work Spotlight - International Episode 9: Dickens (Thailand)

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

In this episode I speak with Dickens, originally from Hong Kong, having worked in social work and counselling in Hong Kong, Singapore, Melbourne, and Thailand. Drawing on his international experience, he currently serves as an international school counsellor in Phuket, Thailand. He is registered with Social Work England and the Hong Kong Social Worker Registration Board. He is also a Certified Clinical Anxiety Treatment Professional.Links to resources mentioned in this week’s episode:PESI online professional development - https://www.pesi.com/International Social Service Hong Kong branch - https://www.isshk.org/en/PsychWire online training - https://psychwire.com/This episode's transcript can be viewed here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wN8QG7rYzE2kmoxSKaugZCs_iKRiBSdjfjnWeJRruDs/edit?usp=sharingThanks to Kevin Macleod of incompetech.com for our theme music.

Before beginning, I wish to acknowledge the traditional owners of the countries of guests featured in this podcast and acknowledge their continuing connection to land, waters and community. I pay my respects to the First Nations people, the cultures and the elders, past, present and emerging. Hi and welcome to Social Work Spotlight where I showcase different areas of the profession each episode, with a 12-month focus on social workers' around the world as of August 2025. I'm your host, Yasmin Lupus, and today's guest is Dickens, originally from Hong Kong having worked in social work and counseling in Hong Kong, Singapore, Melbourne, and Thailand. Drawing on his international experience,

he currently serves as an international school counselor in Pouquet, Thailand. He is registered with Social Work England and the Hong Kong Social Worker Registration Board. He is also a certified clinical anxiety treatment professional. Hi, Dickens. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. I'm looking forward to having a chat with you about your social work experience so far. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here. Like I sent an email. Being on the podcast is actually one of my dreams. I'm really

excited to be here. Thank you for helping me. I'm so glad you're here. I would love to know firstly when you got started in social work and what led you to the profession. Yeah. So I actually didn't think about studying social work or becoming social worker when I was young. When I was young, my passion was actually theatre acting. I wanted to become a theatre actor and I did try to apply for acting school. And luckily and unfortunately, I didn't get into an acting school. So, and I was like, I might need to do something more practical in my life and try to find my second choice, or maybe even my calling.

Yeah. So that's how the whole, what should I do, thought kick in. And at the same time, I was in a volunteer work club in my high school. So I got to visit different places, helping different people, underprivileged people. Single, elderly living alone. visiting nursing home, try to plan some activities for them, to improve their well-being, to improve, just to give them some joys. Yeah. So that's how I started to think about, okay, maybe this is my calling. Maybe this is something that I'd like to do. Yeah, because at the same

time, I also felt good about, okay, helping people. It's definitely something that I want to do. Instead of doing anything like business related, anything that involves numbers, I always joke about that, I'm such a bad Asian, I'm really better maps. Yeah, so like math always, like I still tell my student right now, math gives me anxiety. Don't talk to me about maps, yeah. So definitely I can't do anything like business related, anything with money, like I'm not okay with that. So back to my high school's journey. So I was like, okay, this is something that I enjoy doing. I like to do. Maybe there's my calling. And at the same time, I also wanted to do something related to advocacy, fighting for justice, not just like helping people apart, but also like, okay, this is not right. I would like to have a voice about this. I would like to be someone else's voice

with this. So that's how I started to think about, okay, maybe I should become a social worker. and I grew up in Hong Kong, I was born in Hong Kong, I grew up in Hong Kong. So back in my high school year, I didn't know anything about helping professions. I only thought that, okay, there was only one helping profession, which was social worker. Back in I didn't know, like, psychologists, I didn't know psychiatrists, I didn't know counselors. Yeah. So becoming a social worker seemed to be a real worker. reasonable path from me. So I then try to apply for social work programs, like from

associate degree level to master level. Of course, I try to apply for associate degree to see if I can get in. Of course, I didn't get in next course. I got into psychology undergrad program. And I did enjoy studying, counseling, human behavior, fast, my something that I enjoy. At the same time, I know that with my psychology undergrad, probably not too many options for me. So I also thought about, okay, it's time to be predical again. What should I do? Okay, I still wanted to become a helping profession. At that part of that, of course, I learned more about psychology, learn more about different type of psychologists, but social work was still my calling.

So before I graduated from my psychology degree, I think, six months. So I started to prepare, like, okay, maybe I should apply for a massive social program and apply for five schools. And I got into one of the schools. So that was the happiest moment in my life at that point of time. Yeah. I was screaming in the kitchen. I still got no idea why I opened the acceptance letter in the kitchen.

I'm just swimming in the kitchen. That's what I remember. Maybe that was your happy place, your comfort place. Yes, that was my safe space maybe. Yeah, so I, like, after graduating from my master of social work program, so I am a social worker since then. I'm interested to know why social work was so prominent in your mind. I'm thinking back to, I had no idea what social work was,

and a lot of people I've spoken with who grew up in Australia, the first things they think of when they hear of, helping professions is psychology or counseling or something medical-based, but usually not social work. And honestly, I had no idea what social work was until I spoke with my older cousin who had just finished studying social work when I had to choose what I did at university. Is it something about Hong Kong maybe? And I don't know if that's even something you can answer, but I know that having spoken with other people from Hong Kong who I've worked with in Sydney, they say that activism is a really strong thing in Hong Kong and social work specifically.

in terms of advocacy and fighting against injustice and fighting for change is a big thing. Do you think that's a cultural thing in terms of your initial awareness of social work? That's a very interesting question. And that's a very interesting sharing. Yeah, because, like, definitely the culture is one of the factors that, like, social work

is such a popular discipline for a lot of students because like we had a lot of at least like the time that when I grew up we had a lot of like advertisement from the social welfare department yeah we had a lot of activities that were organized by social workers right yeah the social services in Hong Kong that are still quite comprehensive I would say and I think right now every school at least has one social worker like from kindergarten level to secondary school. Yeah, kindergarten is like a pilot program. At least like from primary school to secondary school. So everyone has a chance to like to talk to a social worker. But of course like back then, in secondary school, if you tell people that you have an appointment

to see a social worker, so that would be a stereotype of like you got into some trouble. Right. Yeah. So that was a bit of a stigma there still. I think still. Yeah. So I do have to tell my students, like, okay, like, you're not in trouble. Okay, I just want to have a chat with you, okay. I am not in trouble, you are not in trouble. So just chill, okay. Uh-huh. So as you were going through your master's of social work, what were your placement opportunities? And is it similar to Australia where we usually standardly have two placements with a thousand hours altogether? Yes. So I had to do like two placements from two different fields. Yeah. I've, I first had a placement at the social rehabilitation center for ex-offenders.

Okay. Yeah. That's a lot for a first year placement. Yeah. That was a lot. And don't think I was mature enough to deliver the service that I'm doing right now. Yeah. At the point of time.

Yeah. But with a great supervisor potentially an awesome learning opportunity, right? Exactly. Either that or it would turn you off the professional together, so you could go either way. I have heard a lot of scary stories about supervisors, but thank God, all my supervisors in my master program, they were really nice to me. Yeah. So I felt like we were actually working together and so like being supervised. Nice. That was a really good feeling. Yeah. And also like my undergrad degree in psychology helped me a little bit more because like, first,

placement it was actually a really clinical setting I didn't expect that yeah so there was a lot of background study research to do and with my psychology background it was actually quite helpful yeah when I talked to my supervisors about like yeah improvement everything I can easily put on okay maybe something that I can use like I've read research I have learned something from my from my undergrad program maybe something that okay I can actually you say in this setting. Yeah, nice.

So, yeah, that was a plus. Yeah. And your second placement? Right. My second placement was in primary school. Yeah. So in primary school setting, in Hong Kong, also like in other countries,

sometimes we don't really do too much of, like, individual counseling. Back then, it was still like not really the main focus, focus. instead I did more case management yeah so to see like if there's my student who is struggling with like academic science is any learning needs behind making referrals and conducting group work so that was the main focus yeah what a wonderful opportunity to get to know your networks though because as a school you have the mezzo the macro the micro you've got the student their wider network which is the family. You've got the wider systems that you can work in and you can make referrals. So you get to see a little bit of everything as part of that referral process.

Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, so it's a really good way to put it together. Because, like, I got asked by one of the teachers at the school that I'm currently working with. So I think that she asked me, okay, what's the difference between like a counsellor or a social working counselor? Because my current job type is school counselor. So I, I basically, like, sometimes, like, we don't just see the presenting problem itself. Most of the time, like, we have to analyze a case in a systematic level. Yeah. So basically what you just mentioned, okay, like, sometimes we have to work with different systems or, like, within the system, and then the interpression between two systems. So I can kind of see a logical step between that final placement and what you're doing now,

that there's so much in the middle what happened when you left university where did you end up you've moved countries quite a bit as well in amongst all that yeah exactly like yeah from one setting to another setting from one country to another country yeah that's basically how i sum up my my cb yeah so like after graduating from my master's i worked as a project officer Yeah, in Hong Kong, for a youth project called Justice Education Project. So basically, organized a mock trial, a moot court competition for youths to promote the legal aspect, the concept like legal education to young people. And then, as a point of time, I miss the counseling part. I miss the individual case report.

Yeah. So that led me to apply for a role. a medical social worker role in Singapore. So back then, the Ministry of Health, they quit, I don't know if they're still doing it, but back then like they came to Hong Kong every year to liquid social workers from Hong Kong to work as a medical social worker in Singapore.

Yeah, back then, like, there was a shortage. And a lot of people in Singapore, back then, they didn't know what social worker was right so it wasn't really like an ideal job for a lot of people in Singapore so that's why they needed to week with social workers in Hong Kong yeah so I moved to Singapore in 2016 did you know anybody before moving there or just new country new job knew everything I've got one classmate from my master program she got that job right out after graduation. So I got her. But at the same time, when I moved there, I found out that she just quit her job and she was going to move back to Hong Kong and I was like, oh, that's great. Okay. So now I have to start over. Yeah, no network, new industry, basically from social services to health care. So totally different setting, different expectation, different system, different system. Yeah. So it was a tough work for me when I think back, still the toughest job

that I ever had in my life. And was it general medical? Were you in a specific area of the hospital? I was placed in an orthopedic ward. Yeah. So I handle a lot of surgical cases, rehab cases, palliative care cases, all sort of different issues. So you'd have like a feel like side cases, I think. So basically it was a general hospital, it was an acute ward. So like I got all sort of referrals. And I got quite a lot of referrals like every day. Like I don't know if it's something similar to Australia. Inpatient setting in Singapore, at least like the time that I was working there, I got like at least like four referrals every day. Yeah. So you're constantly triaging and trying to

prioritize things, right? Yeah, yeah. At some point out of time, like, I was feeling like, okay, this is my limit. I can't provide too much anymore. Yeah. So that also led to my next journey. How long were you there? Only for a year.

I felt like I worked there for four years already. That's a good amount of time. I know, I know, yeah. So that's why I really remind you that, like, you work in a medical setting. You work in a rehab setting for so long. Yeah, nine years in a rehab hospital. Yeah. But it's also to do with the people that you work with.

And mine was subacute. So I had the referrals from the people coming from the acute wards, but it was general. So we had vascular, neurological. We did a lot of heart and lung transplants. We had a lot of stroke or brain injury. Or we did have orthopedic, lots of car accidents, falls. And we had the geriatric social work. So there was enough variety, I think, to keep everything.

super fresh and interesting. Right, right. Yeah, you're doing just to work with like one type of patience, and then sometimes you can't have like a little break. Exactly, yeah. But yeah, as you said, you felt like you worked four years in that one year. Exactly, yeah. So that was like too long for me.

I still take to that job like four years. So I was really proud myself. Yeah. Did you stay in Singapore? So after I moved back to Hong Kong for, few months and then because of my ex-partner so I moved to Melbourne so quite a little bit of jump I know yeah so I stayed Melbourne for the whole year 2018 so I did like a lot of casual work because I was on working hard a piece at the point of time yeah so I had to

also like balance okay my career and it's something that I can do yeah I did feel different type of day casual work. I was an after-school care educator at an autism-focused special school. At the same time, I did an unpaid volunteer work as a caseworker at the Asylum Seeker Resource Center. So that was really rewarding. Yeah, so that was actually what I enjoy to do

during that year. So I really enjoyed that. And then, like, it was actually kind of a good thing for me to get that even though it was an unpaid volunteer role. I felt like I came back the motivation to help people. Yeah. After that first year, which was a big slog trying to get through it. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. So I was kind of like in the middle of like, okay, like should I continue or should I not? Like, is it everywhere like this? Like, all sorts of settings. Like, yeah, from Hong Kong to Singapore. or is it like always like this, like social work. Yeah. Having said that I've worked with refugees

and working with asylum seekers would be no different, if not even harder, because you've got people who don't have any guarantee of security. You said you found that so incredibly rewarding and fulfilling. How did you manage to see the positive side of that when everything can be so incredibly disheartening or frustrating with systems? Yeah, I guess that was the point that, I also did a lot of self-reflection.

Like you said, like asylum-saker population, they're actually really vulnerable as well. Yeah, they've got no resources. Like, you're the only person that they can trust or they can, like, you are the resource that they can tap on. Yeah, it's also like an extra layer of straps. So that's like also really tough work. However, compared to the medical setting,

like the setting itself, the healthcare system, working within the healthcare system might not be a good fit for me. Yeah. So it wasn't really about like helping people. It was more about the setting and the routine, I guess. Moving people through the system rather than working with it. Yeah, exactly. So I liked working with asylum seekers and refugees like when I was in Melbourne.

Because I felt like, okay, like in a community setting, we have different resources that we can tell. we can tap on it's not like a secondary setting so it's social services focus yeah not like attached to another industry so that was my reflection was like okay okay maybe i should go back to like community setting yeah so so that was the point of time that okay yeah i still want to be a social worker i'm still okay to be a social worker yeah yeah and i wonder whether you had a bit more freedom within that environment because when you're working for government or for a program that has very strict criteria or very strict objectives that you need to meet, it can be incredibly stressful, whereas with asylum seekers, you probably

had mostly non-government funding and donations and that sort of thing where, yes, you're accountable significantly to a great extent, but it's a different level of accountability, I think. I think people just want to make sure that their money is being put to good use as opposed to having really specific objectives that you need to meet. Yes, that's also true. Like, yeah, that reminds me of my life. As a medical social worker, like, I had to meet my KPI. Yeah.

So that was one of my stressors. Yeah. So in the community setting, I guess in most of the countries, like we all have, like, our objective, we all have our estimated outcomes that we want to do. achieve, yeah. However, like, the money that we put into the services that can really, like, make a different in someone's life. I think, like, that's the difference that I could see. I don't know if I answer a question, but, like, when I was working in Singapore as a medical social worker,

all I thought about was the bad turnover rate. Yeah, to discharge the patient. Yeah. So, it might not be ideal for me. Yeah. And when did you decide it was time to leave that sort of role and what came next for you? It was a very simple decision. My visa expired, so I had to go back to Hong Kong. So fortunately, two months after I moved back to Hong Kong, I found an opening for a social worker role, also working with asylum secrets and refugees.

But in Hong Kong, like, we don't have an asylum-seeking system. The term we use it is like a non-reforming claimant. Yeah. It's very legal-focused, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, it's a purely illegal term. So Hong Kong is not always a place that asylum seekers can settle. Gotcha.

Yeah. So for example, like Canada, US, people can settle there with the refugee status. status. Yeah, so it's always an in-between. Yeah, Australia as well. Yeah, so like it's somewhere in between the country for them to transit. But I did have a clients from all over the world. So people that you would not think of, they would come all the way to Hong Kong to seek safety. So that was my transition. Yeah, from Melbourne to Hong Kong, still doing pretty much like similar work. But what I did in Hong Kong was way more than what I did in Melbourne. Sure. More of an official capacity. Yeah, like the pace

was really fast and I got more clients. I think at some point of time, I got 450 clients under my case per year. Wow, that's huge. That's more than that. them one a day. Yes. So like the whole casework or case management system is different from what I used to experience in Melbourne. So when they launch the claim, they will be advised to go to our center to get the social services because we're the only service unit in Hong Kong receiving government fundings for having this population, having this group. Yeah. So it's like a standard procedure for my clients, okay, like once I launch my claim, I will go to my privy center. It was called like International Social Services.

Yeah, so abbreviation is ISS. Yeah, so ISS Hong Kong, there is the only service center that provides government-funded assistant to asylum seekers and refugees. Yeah, sometimes if they got the refugee status and waiting. to be resettable in other country. Yeah, I was the resource to them. Mm-hmm. Which can be really hard in terms of barriers.

And, you know, you want to build a good relationship with these people for the sake of being able to be trusted and supporting and all of those good things. But if you're the only person that they feel they can rely on, that's a lot of pressure and potentially boundaries can get blurred. Exactly. Like, speaking of boundaries, like, yeah, sometimes, like, we do you have. have to be mindful like, okay, what's the boundaries, like at what point we need to be more affirmative with them? Because like they are silent-sakers, they're vulnerable people,

but they can also be casting your boundaries, yeah, you know, to get more resources. That's very understandable. So at that point of time, like, I was also a little bit like, overwhelmed, frustrated, yeah, for me. Did you work with other social workers? What sort of support did you have there? I was placed in a team I've got like two senior social workers and my peers I've got at least like 8 to 90 like I'm a great level yeah so pretty much like a really big team because like everyone carries like really high case level yeah so they constantly need people and we are taking go of basically a client's life like when as long as there in Hong Kong, like from housing to even like counselling needs, like medical needs. We have to be there advocate. Sometimes we go for home visits. Sometimes we go to hospital visits with them.

It's like the language barrier. And be mindful that, like some of the clients, they might not come from a country with a perfect or comprehensive healthcare system. So they definitely need someone to navigate the system with them. or sometimes even fall down. Yeah, so you're a translator of system and culture as much as language. Yeah, yeah. But most of the time, like, we also rely on their friends to be our translators.

Yeah, so sometimes in time, like they can't speak even basic English. So unlike Australia, has a perfect interpretation and translation system that you can just make one phone call. we have to make full phone calls in order to see if any friends of theirs like they're able to help us to translate from English to their own mother tongue yeah so that's one of the challenge and that's back to like what we talk about boundaries so for people who have worked with asylum seekers and refugees or what we're like intercultural populations like there's actually a no-no not the best practice yeah yes but if that's all you've got

but sometimes that's what you've got. Yeah, yeah. So that was an opening experience. It also foster my advocacy skills to the next level for. Yeah. Most of the time, I will have to, like, advocate for them to get more resources just to get people in their system to be more understanding.

especially housing is a big issue in Hong Kong. I don't know if you have seen like those like subdivide. Oh yeah, I've been to Hong Kong. Lots of high rises. And I love the clothes lines that go between buildings because that's the only space you have. Yes, exactly. Imagine like they can only get a really little amount of housing allowance. They're not qualified for any public housing because like they're not.

Of course. They're not eligible for. like other fundings for any sort of government benefits so what they've got is only a little amount from our organization yeah and how they're going to survive in Hong Kong sometimes really hard even for us to help them because like this is not just about the assistant itself it's about to pull Hong Kong like everyone's drunk going for sure yeah so also a little bit of like Bander pushing a lot Yeah

Yeah So that was also a tough work And what brought you from Singapore Over to Thailand Where you are now When I moved back to Hong Kong So that was like the protest time Yeah

Everyone can remember that And COVID hit So at that point of time I was like Is it like my future here I felt like I was stuck in Hong Kong I always wanted to travel always wanted to work as a social worker aboard.

At least I bring my profession to other countries to use my skills, to live in different places, to see different things, to see the world. Yeah. And then four years ago, I met my partner. So we started dating. And then back then it was still over time. And the lockdown in Hong Kong was Sofia was like the next level. I guess it was like the Melbourne one.

I can't say like way worse than that, but like there's the idea of like how lockdown looked like back then like it was in Hong Kong. Yeah. And then because of COVID restriction like everything about Hong Kong, like he had to move to Bali for job position. Maybe I was also ready to move out of Hong Kong and start to look at like other opportunity. And at the same time, I really, really wanted to try international school counseling. doing something more clinical, where they're like tangible case work management, managing different funding, resources, loads of paperwork. I guess a lot of social workers would feel the same.

I carry the title as a social worker, but sometimes I feel like I'm a paperworker. So that led me to apply for my current job in Puket as a school counselor in an international school. And then I got a job and then my partner also got a job in Bangkok. So we have lived in Thailand since then. Okay. Since 2023. Yeah. So that was like two years ago.

Yeah. For sure. And the students, are there any Thai students? Is it all international? What's the makeup of the people that you're supporting? My school is a really international, international school. We have a lot of foreign residents. in Puket. So we have around 30% of Russian students.

Okay. For the Thai students, a large amount of them, they're not just Thai, they have a second citizenship, second nationality. Mm-hmm. So we have Russian students, we have half Thai students, Chinese students, and full Thai students. Yeah. Okay. So I'm the only counselor there. taking care of around 900 students yeah so it's more clinical side of social work yeah so you're working

with a lot of kids who have potentially three or more languages how is your Thai after two years living here as a non-tai Asian residence here my go-to Thai phrase would be like my chai kongtai I'm not Thai. I say it in Thai. Yeah. So I pick up a little bit. I can recognize some words that if I have to speak it, this is the only fluent sentence that I can speak. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, because here's a really international. It's not really good thing, but sometimes I don't feel like I have to speak Thai here. Yeah, but I guess you're in a place that's pretty cosmopolitan. You know, you're in a large-ish city, even though you're on an island. It's not as though you're quite regional or rural Thailand. A lot of people will get by with at least a decent level of English. So it's probably

harder for you to then learn because you're not exposed to it as much or you're not forced to speak it, which is catch-22, right? It makes it easier for you to work, but harder for you to really get the most out of living here. Right. Yeah. So compared to my partner's school, his school has like majority of Thai students yeah so majority of the students are like a fully Thai yeah so I think it's like the setup here is like a very unique thing about Puket yeah yeah I saw also that you're working on getting your social work England registration can you tell me more about that and what you're hoping that will lead to because that's a whole process that I've heard is equally challenging to you know moving to a new country and trying to understand system right yeah like

i mentioned before like hong Kong political climate might not be ideal at a moment so that's a lot of hong kong social workers trying to seek registration in our country yeah so it just happened that i had like a friend who who did it so like he could guide me to like the whole process which was actually quite straightforward because Hong Kong used to be a British colony. So like the system here set up like similar to the UK system. So once I submitted like all my credentials and everything, I remember I had to write a person's statement to show that like, okay, with my social work skills and knowledge, how I can contribute to the UK. society or something like that, which is like a logical piece for the applicants.

So the whole process took me, I guess, like a few months. But at that point of time, I wasn't thinking about moving to UK. I was more like seeking for like some sort of security, some sort of reinsurance, especially in the international school of sex. I feel like sometimes people would prefer like credential or like qualification from an English-speaking country. So like that was a logical move. Yeah. Okay.

So it's there as a backup option for you. It's a backup. But now my backup has become my primary credential. Yeah. Because like a little changes happening in Hong Kong for the registered social workers. Yeah. So last year or two years ago, they added a residency clause. Okay.

You are not living in Hong Kong. You are not allowed to renew your license. Wow. Yeah. So a lot of Hong Kong social workers, probably like if they moved to other countries, everything like it was a political move. I can't really comment much about that. I'm not an expert.

Yeah. That's just so restrictive, though. because surely it's a good thing for Hong Kong to have social workers who have had worldly experience to then come back and work in the system but oh wow okay so you have to make a really hard decision yes so that's what I say like my registration with social work in England is my primary license now yeah gotcha okay yeah but the whole process I think it's still like simple than other countries that I've read or, like, I've known, especially, like, in Hong Kong and in England or even in Australia, I think.

Like, yeah, you don't have to, like, pass an exam in order to get your license. And the US, like, there might be, like, a state licensee exam that you have to pass in order to get your license. Mm-hmm, yeah. Yeah, so it's more like a compulsion. Yeah. Sure. Well, if we come back to your school, social work here,

What's the thing that you love most? I know that you had your second placement in a school and that's something that you've been passionate about for a while, but what do you love about it? What keeps you going? I guess back to the school setting, one thing that I really like about my job, one thing that I really love about my job is like

I can really see the changes that I've made in my students' life. So they're teenagers, they can be really straightforward. If they got changes, you can actually see. Especially seeing them, like, functioning well, I can't say that, okay, like, yeah, your problem is gone or something. I always tell me my students that, okay, like, if you know how to live with this issue, I've done my job already. Yeah, you managed well. That's all I want to see. Yeah.

It's something that I can really see, I mean, the impact compared to, for example, my last role, I said, I'm a security refugee social worker. because their life is really hard to be improved. Yeah, or even in the hospital where you do whatever you do to support them while they're there and then they go and then you potentially never see them again. These are kids and families that you're working with longer term so you can really see the tangible effect of the work you're doing. Yeah, exactly, yeah.

So it's very rewarding to see them. Even just like simple things, they say thank you to you. They're being appreciative. so it's not something that like we should love for as a social worker but it helps yes it helps a lot yeah yeah keeps you moving it keeps you going we need yeah yeah it's an otherwise very thankless job so having that and that feedback is so valuable yeah and they write thank you cards to you and that's a really good thing i used to have a like a reward system When I was working in the hospital, it was really brutal.

I don't know if I should share that. One of your KPIs is how many thank you card you've got. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. People are in crisis. They're not thinking about writing your card. That's how they measure your work.

So, yeah, I don't know if they still do that or what. Yeah, but this is something that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I never expect. So it's totally different. I mean, the meaning of receiving a thank you card is totally different now. Of course.

Especially when they use the handwriting, like, you know, the kids, sometimes they can't even like spell a word, right. Yeah, so that was like, okay, it's really adorable. Yeah. Do you just have them all strung up in your office to remind you every day of what you're doing and why? I do. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, I also have a little, like, motivational questions.

my favorite one is like anxiety is a conspiracy theory about yourself that's great yeah I'd love to put in my work yeah so I think it's a really good indicator that okay like I really like this kind of work yeah to continue that's so lovely what do you find difficult what's hard about either social work in general or the work that you're doing at the moment yeah I guess in general So as a social worker, sometimes you will feel like, you're the only firefighter. I guess if no matter what setting that you're in, you constantly have to be like to fight fight, to handle all sort of crises, like in my previous jobs, especially in my current world, like I'm the only school counselor there, I'm the sole council, I'm the lead counselor, I'm the assistant,

I basically run my own department. Sometimes I feel like I also need some support and because of my role like basically no one can really understand what I'm doing good and bad sometimes they would think okay oh my god I'm so sorry for you because I you're the only one who handles everything and then sometimes I feel good about that like yeah because I have the power to empower my students yeah yeah and sometimes I feel helpless I also need some guidelines, I also need someone to tell me, like, what to do. I have to at least, like, put up my brave face to face the challenge, to face the issue, because I'm the only one there. Yeah.

So what support do you have when things get quite challenging? I guess I put on my social worker hat to look at, like, what are the resources that are available for myself? Yeah. Yeah. So, an approach I still use right now, learning from like the time that I work as a medical social worker, even like you don't have an answer, it's good to put like all the voices from different disciplines together and then we talk it through, we work it through, even like I don't have an answer, but like I always do ask for like in our school, like we have

the half of year. Like each year group has a puzzle coordinator slash head of year. Yeah. So if I really feel like, okay, something I really can't handle. Yeah, I would initially I'm eating. Okay. Just tell them, okay, like, yeah, I've done this. I've done that. Okay. There's my limitation. Like, are you okay to work together with me? Yeah. Yeah. I have to put my briefings, but I also have to ask for help. Even like from my colleagues, they probably don't know what to do. But like, we bring the synergy. Mm-hmm. I guess that's the ability of. looking as a social worker, we always work with different systems.

But I think that power comes in knowing that you're not alone in the work. Even if the person you're talking to doesn't necessarily understand exactly what you're trying to get out or the context, just voicing it sometimes and having someone else there to be a sounding board is helpful. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes we have to advocate for ourselves as well. Yeah. Yeah. And at the same time, I also receive clinical superfluous. vision from an external clinical supervisor. I get a shout out to Kath, my clinical supervisor. Hi, Kath.

So, yeah, I need to have that space. Do you have someone not from the school to help me to guide me through, like, okay, this kind of issue that I'm facing, talking through. And sometimes, like, might not be a good idea, but I might have used my clinical supervisor as my therapist as well. Yeah. I love cleaning supervisors, they didn't want to hear that. But it's the support that you get.

Sure. If you weren't doing this kind of work, what are you interested in trying next? Wow. That's a big question. I don't really know at a moment. Yeah. My partner and I talk about it. Okay, like, what will what kind of work I want to do in my life?

So something that I think I want to try, it's proper practice counseling. Okay. Yeah, I'm not really tech-savvy guy, but at some part of time, like, I think I'll be tempted to try, like, online counseling. This is the scope of work, the scope of social work that I would like to do to do something more clinical on an individual basis. Yeah, and I think that's the sort of thing that you can kind of test the waters without diving straight in. You can maybe take half a day of counseling to begin with and then see how it develops. Yeah, that's something I always have in my mind, but I want to continue working in an international school. I love to work with people from different backgrounds, culturally, linguistically, just say different things, talk to different people, yeah, some elements that I want in my professional life, I would say.

Yeah. Yeah. There's another wonderful social worker who I interviewed for the podcast, his name is Steph. And he always wanted to do acting and theatre and performances as well, but he is doing it. So in his spare time, he's in community theatre and he's in musicals and he does behind the scenes as well as actual performing. Is that maybe something that you can as just sort of a complete, I need space from what I do day to day, maybe this is my weekend thing.

It might be an option for you, maybe just to continue developing that passion alongside what you're doing with your professional life. Yeah, something I thought about, yeah. And then I guess, like, I would also like to try, I mean, not professionally, yeah, involving some, like, art projects. I know myself right now. I am, like, 30% like introverted. I'm not have, like, the courage. Sure, yeah.

The courage I used to have when I was young, I was involving, like, theater projects, like, productions and everything. So, but, like, another sign of the whole spectrum. art. I would like to try, like, yeah, something more performance arts, something more contemporary art. Yeah, so that was something like, okay, maybe I can try. But like, of course, like, I'm not like fine art or like contemporary art train. So, yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, you have options. Yeah. So far, like, I guess like traveling or like leaving aboard as a social worker, the traveling part is something that I liked it too already, yeah, as part of my work.

It's a beautiful combination. Yeah, I'm just mindful of your time before we finish up any resources or things that you're wanting to maybe shout out, whether it's viewing or reading or anything particular to do with social work or things that you find relevant or interesting that people can go off and have a look at. Yeah, I guess I would recommend a website. called psych wire. They have like all sort of online training causes in different counseling approaches. And I did one of the acceptance and commitment therapy. So that was really helpful.

Yeah. And for a lot of social workers, they handle their paperwork. And sometimes if they want to like explore something more clinical, I think it would be a really good training platform. And there are tons of online training, websites, platforms. They're really helpful for social workers who like to blow more the clinical side. I think that would be a good start. Today I just thought about my journey, even though I was heavily involved in service provision, resources management, sign of social work.

When I think that, I always like try to to see if I can like help people individually in a clinical platform. I guess it for some social work because if they want to explore this side like yeah talk to your line manager to see if they can assign you cases that you would like to explore to try to work with I think also a good sign yeah I'm pretty sure I work like there must be someone can guide you through this but not afraid to ask for something that you want to try I think that's the key part. Yeah, I think that's such wonderful advice because I definitely as a younger social worker wouldn't have thought that that was even something I could do is ask for a specific

type of referral or case or whatever. But if I had an interest in something, then I thought I'll develop it as I go. But often if you've got that interest and passion or even a gap in your knowledge and you can identify that, you're the best supervisee ever because you've got so much inside and you can reflect on what you want to work on. So yeah, I think that that's a really good point is just having the confidence to reach out and say, I know what I don't know and I want to get better at this and help me through that. Right. Yeah. So sometimes we also have to be our advocate. We know ourselves better than other people. Absolutely. Just have a choice of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else that you wished I'd asked or anything that you haven't had a chance

to say that you wanted to? I don't know if it's relevant to your podcast, but I want to ask about your itineries. Where do you travel next? Yes. Well, you know, ironically, we're recording this online, even though we're maybe an hour and a half, two-hour drive from each other.

But so I go from almost Pouquet, where you are, to Singapore next week. The week after that, I go to Indonesia for six weeks. And then after that, I go to Laos and then Malaysia, and then India, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and then I move over to the UK and Europe, where I have five months altogether. So that's 12 months before you know it.

It'll be not that I'm counting down, definitely. I'm only a short while into this, but trying to make the most of it and see as many people in as many countries as they can and just get a sense for what else is out there and what people are doing, because up until now, as I think I told you, the podcast is only focused on Australian social workers.

So I thought this was a great opportunity to while I'm traveling, have a chat with other people and see, just compare systems and training and opportunities, but also just get a sense of how things differ and how things are similar and what other people's experience has been like chats with social workers to see what they're up to and see what just what social workers like in different countries. I think that's fascinating.

Yeah, this is beautiful. I'm very excited for your trip, round the road trip. Yeah, yeah, thank you. And thank you for taking the time to do this. I've loved hearing about all of it. I think it's great that you had a high school social worker. I wonder if I would have had a clearer path going forward if I knew that social work was a thing from early on.

And then you had those placement opportunities and you've had so many incredible learning adventures and moved from different countries to get to see what the challenges are like or what the positives are and you've been able to take little bits from each place that you've worked and use that experience to develop, I guess, your concept or your idea of what social work is and can be and where you want it to go next. And yeah, it sounds as though the work has been so rewarding for you and you've got such a significant sense of gratitude.

And I think those thank you cards that you've got up in your office are definitely helping with that and keeping you focused on what you want to be doing and the work that you are passionate about. So it's so wonderful to hear about. Thank you so much for doing this. Well, thank you for summing up my CV in a beautiful way. Yeah. As is like adventure. Yeah, something that we all need to remind myself like life as an adventure. That's right. Yeah, just soak it up. Soak it up, but also stop to think about what you're doing and stop to reflect and just appreciate the things that you have that you know that other people don't

because you see it firsthand. Right, yeah, sometimes we all have to remind us out like, okay, we have to be grateful to be a social worker. It's actually a powerful tool. Yeah, do you have the gratitude? Do you have the reflection? I think that is what social worker training can bring us. yeah that's right well thank you again dickens so much it's been so lovely meeting with you

and i'm so appreciative that you could do this thank you for having me it's my dream to be on a podcast thank you so much thanks for joining me this week if you'd like to continue this discussion or ask anything of either myself or dickens please visit my anchor page at anchor dot fm slash social Spotlight. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram and Blue Sky, or you can email SW Spotlight podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear from you. Next episode's guests are Francine and Nadra, both of whom started out in different professions before retraining in social work, now working in a transitional care facility in Singapore. Francine trained and worked in regional Australia,

mostly in hospitals and community renal care before returning to Singapore. And Nadra was a paramedic who swapped her stethoscope for a listening ear. I release a new episode every two weeks. Please subscribe to my podcast so you are notified when this next episode is available. See you then.