Soder - 109: Paper Straws with Jim Gaffigan | Soder Podcast | EP 107

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

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Bookstores are like the opposite of liquor stores, right? You go to a bookstore to enrich your life. There's even a self-help section. But a liquor store is like an enormous self-destruct section. They might as well greet people. How can I help you? Are you looking for your wife to leave you or just lose your job? Both.

We've got just a thing. It's called Fireball. Stealing road signs brings you back to a feeling that you can't you can't get that high off a weed or alcohol. There is, you know, I have my son, one of my sons stole a traffic sign And I was like, what the?

And, you know, you forget. It's a sweet high. And what he did, he just turned around, he goes, where'd you get this? And I was like, no, it was actually a sign that's hanging in my kid's bathroom. Really? Yeah. And I had told him that I had stolen it. Yeah.

But that high of going and taking it, I'm in my 40s. I drove away from that pull off into those houses. And I was like, what is this, 1997? It's a lot. It's also design. Yeah. It's design. But when you get divorced, she's going to throw it out.

Oh, she'll burn it. She'll burn it. She'll go that piece of shit. I should have known. I watched the Bourbon special. Oh, thank you. You know what's fun about watching an hour of comedy about a thing that killed most of your family? Is it feels like if we were in a trial and someone annihilated my family.

Yeah. Like if I was sleeping in the basement, they didn't find me, but they killed everyone else. It'd be like if I was watching a great defense of that where you go, you go, you go, I love this lawyer. You know what I mean? I'm going to like, they are, the points he's making are fantastic. Maybe my family should have been murdered. You know, because when I was writing all this material, I was like, because I resented, you know, my dad's drinking when I was a kid. So your dad did drink when you were a kid.

He did. but like there's also some of it is this I feel like either I've gotten to the point where you know I mean I also you know I used to have material about not drinking yeah and then I and then I would drink I would only drink beer because I didn't want to get out of control and then when I'm sitting there compiling this set I'm like all right how many jokes can I do about my impending alcoholism like you rationalize you know you're predicting the future you're like you're like you're Let me get ahead of this so I look like a genius. Yes. That's actually brilliant. But also what I realized is there is we, we, you know, like, it's not just my denial. Like, I think even from a society standpoint, even the, the addiction that we feel with our, that exists with our phones.

Oh, with everything. That's destroying teenagers. I think the way sports has embraced. gambling is insane it's funny because you bring that stuff up to people and they get very like i don't want to be the nerd i remember growing up and loving you know i was born in the early 80s so i was a child that watched stalone schwarzenegger willis all those action movies where they would just kill a ton of people then have a line and i always when tipper gore came out You did parental advisory.

Yeah. I was right at that age. I was maybe like 11. Where if they were like, they're trying to silence us. You're just like 11 years old in the suburbs. I'm not being silenced at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fuck, tipper gore.

Parental advisory, you parents just don't understand. Right. Then you get older and you go, senseless violence might have a cause in our society. Like you're seeing like the amounts of mass shootings and you go, maybe we shouldn't have had all those. These movies where they were killing 20 people and going, suck on that misdif, you know what I mean? Well, I feel like, no, I feel like the gambling thing, it's not going to end well.

No, those, those players. You're not going to end up with a bunch of millionaires. No, it's like the house always wins. Always. But also, it's going to eventually, I mean, these vulnerable players are going, you know, like if someone has a big, I'm surprised there isn't a movie about this. like, it's like, I've got, you know, the, the, let's say, I don't know basketball that well, but let's say I've got the Pacers to win game four. Sure.

Well, you know, the thing is, is that they're probably not going to win game for unless we, Nancy Kerrigan, a player. And that's what's going to happen. I'll tell you, you know. By the way, I should probably say it should be Tanya Harding, not Nancy Carrier. No, but Nancy Garrigan. And shout out to my friend in sixth grade who did the funniest impression of her

I've ever heard of my life that got me in trouble in school where he's going, why, why, why? December 5th, that's a Friday, Vancouver, Canada. I am going to be there. It's close to sold out, but we're at the Vogue Theater. Saturday, December 6th, Eugene Oregon. I know it's the Big Ten championship.

I hope your Oregon Ducks are doing great. Off chance they're not, or the games earlier in the day, why don't you come to the McDonald Theater? in Eugene, Oregon, December 13th, Royal Oak, Michigan, Royal Oak Theater. I'm coming back, baby. I'm very excited. It's the last show of the year.

We're going to have a hell of a time. December 13th, Royal Oak, Michigan, DanSoter.com for tickets. Don't futz around with those other websites. Go to DanSoter.com. Get your tickets from there, and I'll see you in Royal Oak. You know, this original point of addiction is spread in our society in so many acceptable ways. As someone that grew up, you know, you grew up with the dad that drank. I grew up with around my parents drank my my mom wasn't bad but my she drank everyone around

me drank her both of her parents were alcoholics and to accept that was like accepting a gay child in the 60s it was like they didn't want to accept the fact that they were alcoholics they're like we're just fucking drinking yeah well it is like funny that you're writing these bits and you go I have to let me cut myself off at the pass yes I have to you know there has to be some self-awareness in this but like this whole this whole bourbon set was i knew when i when i kind of dove into it that it was totally a a niche thing that it wasn't for everyone but i can i say that i enjoy i'm learning that i love this is this is a weird take i love one subject

dedicated stand-up thing Colin Quinn does it perfectly with unconstitutional New York story how he takes one subject and burrows into it that's what I liked about this because there's offshoots that you went into that were just like

dude the liquor store as someone whose dad worked in a liquor store really yeah top the bottom you nailed it the design of why don't we make it the back I was like dude that's exactly how it feels and what's crazy about working in a liquor store is you see everyone that drinks. And you realize everyone drinks.

There are, like my dad used to open, there was a liquor, the name thing is great too. Can I just say as someone that lived in Astoria for 15 years, the fact that you brought up city slickers. Yes. On 21st, is it the one on 21st Street?

Yes, yes. In Astoria Queens. Yes. I used to drive by that every night home from the comedy clubs and I would laugh when someone would be giving me a ride. We'd take 21st off the bridge. Well, Christian Finnegan,

and Ted Alexander when I was doing that bit both brought it up to me. Yeah. And I was like, anyone that lived in a story are like city slickers. And your punchline on,

it's great. But I do like, when you said that, it was like, it's how I imagine when people listen to the podcast and I talk about Denver stuff and I'll be like,

I was driving by Parker and Quincy. Yeah, yeah. I was just right there. They're like, oh my gosh. Like I was watching your special and I was like, city slickers.

I know 21st Street. I feel seen. Yeah. But all that liquor store stuff made me go like, oh my gosh. God, this is perfect. Oh, thanks.

Because the people, the thing that my dad worked at a liquor store called Dan's Lickers. Dan's. Which I thought was because he loved me. Yeah. But it was because he was an alcoholic. Was he named Dan? No, I'm Dan.

I know. His name's Gary. Okay. Yeah, that's right. And he was like, I'm just working at Dan's Liquors in Mill Valley. And it ended up being where I would go in the summer and hang out. I would just like hang out at the liquor store. And there's like stuff around it, like the auto mechanic in the back.

And there was like an archerer. arcade close by. But watching people coming to a liquor store is fascinating. I mean, I, you know, I'm totally into the bourbon whiskey world. And it's just such a weird business that has yet to be a retail experience that has yet to be ruined by online shopping. Yeah. Like you can buy booze online, but like you can't do like Amazon. No. You know what I mean? So you have to. And it's also one of those retail shops where I love I you know there's a lot of topics that I couldn't get but I love how people that work in liquor stores you know it's not necessarily required that they're polite you know I mean I would actually say it's a benefit to them if they aren't yeah because they're

going to see crazy shit well they have to process the you know the I think I was in a liquor store in Rhode Island and I saw this woman deal with this person she's like you got your pint or whatever you got your bottle now you have to leave yeah and she's just babysitting this mentally ill guy well because also the thing about booze like any inebri any kind of like substance is you get excited getting it so there's an excitement the ritual yeah you get excited and he like he got his pint and he was like I want to hang out though yeah yeah I'm about to hang out I'm about to get fucked up I need someone to hear my story yeah like I need to talk to you and she goes I'm on a nine hour day yes at seven I'm getting $7.50 an hour.

It's definitely. And I got my hand on a broken bat, like a chopped off bat that I could fucking break your hand with. I would watch my dad. That was one of the first instances I saw at my dad, at someone being negative towards homeless people for a correct reason. Oh, that's so interesting. We would open the liquor store,

and it would open at around 7. 7.30. So those were always the first people to buy like the cheap vodka so that they could survive. on the streets. So they can get to like 3 p.m. But I'm like a seven-year-old, and I'm like, the men sleep outside. That's bad.

And then they come in and they're like, my dad's like, get your fucking booze and get the fuck out of there. And then they leave and he goes, you want to drop the cigarettes in the thing at the top that came down? That was my favorite thing to do was turn on the open sign and put the cigarettes in the shoot. There is a social equality in liquor stores, right? Yeah, well, everyone's coming to get their poison.

Yeah. Everyone's coming to get their thing. Everyone's, my point is that there are, what, what, what humans live in denial of is that the poison, if we, if you stop drinking, the poison will go away. But my point, you know, like as someone who is a compulsive eater and as somebody who's a compulsive stand up, you know, like being, by the way, being a comedian is an addiction. going in front of people and asking for adoration and approval is not if I said this on my HBO special

but it's true if I was balanced I would just be the funniest guy at Enterprise yeah I would just be a manager at an enterprise right now and being like yeah sometimes I make my coworkers laugh a lot but instead someone my hose is crunched and so the water's shooting out weird so every night I go

you guys ever think about this I think about this is this okay they like think about this and it's compulsion it's also a why a lot of comics go through drinking phases or start really heavy boozers and become better comics when they quit a la Joe list. And a lot of guys that I know that stop and then they go, oh, that was, I got into comedy because I loved comedy, but I loved drinking. It's so funny because like that of your whole like, you know, age group of comedians

because when I was putting out father time, yeah, I would reach out to all these comedians and I was like, hey, I want to send you a bottle. And then what was very apparent is at least half of them were like, I know, at least half of them were in the Mullaney thing. Like, I'd rather not have that bottle. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean? They did a gift thing on billions.

Yeah. And, you know, billions is like the biggest production I've ever been a part of. It was awesome. It was really cool. But at the end of the year, they had this, fuck, what was the liquor brand that they, they had like a sponsorship with this whiskey. And at the end, you'd go in. on your rap on your last day of filming you go in your trailer and there'd just be a bottle of whiskey

like in there and you're like what are you doing but you guys not know me and like you just have it's like a 300 dollar bottle it's crazy I gave it we my father-in-law and my brother-in-law drank it when we bought it and my father-in-law was like this is the shit and you're like yeah yeah it's real good stuff but my point is like it's funny they just left it in a room where I was alone in a trailer where I was alone where you're like I could have lock the door and became out a different person. There's stories of comedians going up to Montreal. I probably shouldn't say the name.

We'll keep the names out. Where they went to Montreal, they had to remove the mini bars. Oh, yeah. Because they couldn't even have the mini bar in the room because it was too tempting. If you drink and you think you might have a problem, watch the movie flight with Denzel Washington.

Oh, yeah. If it makes you feel weird. He landed the plane upside down. He goes, I'm good for another 20 years or drinking. But if that movie in any way makes you feel uncomfortable, look into your drinking. Because there was the moment where the mini fridge is banging. You know, and he opens the door.

And I was like, oh, I felt like at least in the first five years. So do you intentionally not stay in hotels that have been in? I don't care now. I'm past it now. There does become a time where I just know, also I'm not sober. I smoke weed. Okay. It goes somewhere.

This is the point you were making. That's the thing. I have friends that were, I have a friend that was a sex addict, stopped being a sex addict and became an alcoholic, quit an alcoholic and then became a compulsive eater and you're like, it's like that Bugs Bunny where he's just sticking his finger in the dyke and it's like sprouting out somewhere else. No, it is.

And by the way, it's the human condition. I think it's the human condition. I think it's also the arrogance of human society to think that business owners, you better be using Square. Today's episode comes from Square. The system powering, I don't know, a bunch of businesses, haircuts, detail, car details, running a design studio. If you got a business, you're going to want to start thinking about Square.

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in a Draft King's commercial where you go, I'm a pro wrestling fan. And I believe in the mixture of K-Fabe in real life. It makes the stories better where you go, This might be real. These guys might have a problem. I want to watch this match. But it ruins sports because you go, so you're into gambling?

Well, how much are you into gambling? Well, should I worry? Should I not gamble on your games? What the fuck is going on? Well, it's when I, when I started stand-up, there used to be you could do a lot of commercials. Oh, that was like the way in. Right?

You'd make a living in commercials. But there was a certain thing where you'd be like, you know like there would be international cigarette ads and you're like all right i'm not going to do cigarette ads i'm not going to like there's obvious ones like i'm not going to do rogain or like diarrhea or something like i would do both of those by the way yeah as a guy with a hair transplant and who constantly diarrhea is i'm in for both but like obviously i'm exaggerating yeah but like there there used to be this kind of like what's in poor taste you know like what are you you know what it was is just a high threshold for shame where you're like you don't feel any shame

about that and then you would have to look at your family and the eye and that's my whole thing is like society is broken like I how many benefits did you do for the legalization of pot like I it used to be once a quarter yeah you know how normal would reach out you know like they go hey you want to do a show and you go yeah and they'd always go it's 420 friendly yeah yeah And it's like, we're trying to help out. And I was like, and intellectually, I understand all the argument. And I also emotionally had hoped that New York City, this brilliant home of commerce, the financial capital of the world, they would at least tax it. Yeah.

And with those taxes, they could sit there and get some. kind of program where they could regulate it but like it's like and i don't you know i don't really care of you know my joke is like you know it's great raising kids in new york city because you can't walk a block without smelling weed i mean it's it by the way that got turned on though that got turned on by Colorado doing it the right way Colorado in 2014 because it's a purple state where you have very blue big cities and then you have very red rural areas how they got it to work was they said, okay, we're going to tax it at this level. Yeah.

And 25%, I forget what the actual numbers were, are going to schools and roads. And so it goes, and then they had like, dude, in 2015, they had the excess of like $127 million in taxes because of marijuana sales. Yes. And you go, well, then I better never feel a bump on I-75 when I'm in Colorado or 225 better be smooth as fuck. And, you know, the thing is, it's like, but I don't get a. a sense that that's what happening in new york city was selling like as a weed smoker that stayed away from it i bring my weed in i don't buy like i i won't go to a dispensary i have started recently but forever i would bring because flying is no big deal yeah they don't give a shit and you go to like

the west coast the way that new yorkers talk about pizza and bagels yeah where they go it's the water i don't know what it is you go to the fucking california can't get a decent slice yeah as someone that's from Colorado. Hey, New York, your weed is ass. I don't know if it's the water or the soil, but it sucks. You go to the West Coast and you go, this is fucking phenomenal. And when you say good, is it on a power level or just a quality of experience? Now they've learned how to soup it up so it can be super powerful. I'm talking about finding a weed like you smoke it and it's pleasant and you just go like, I feel great. Kind of like the way Kentucky does with bourbon. where there's just like these certain areas.

And I'll tell you, California, Colorado in the Pacific Northwest, just do marijuana better. It's because of the altitude, the climate, how everything's grown. But you come to New York and it just feels like New York. It feels stepped on. It feels very like, yo, you want shower diesel? And you're like, I hate to do this to you, New York. You're the best in a lot of things. Marijuana is not even close to the top of you guys.

You know, I, again, my. And I know people will get mad. and come for me. Dude, you better come to our shop. Yeah, I'm going to make you, I'm going to give you schizophrenia. I don't want that. I don't want the schizophrenia.

I've done all the mind-bending drugs. Yeah. I want a pleasant, like sometimes you can smoke weed that you buy here and it feels like when you drink cheap bourbon. Yeah. You can like taste that it's been like, what is this has been distilled?

Yeah. And then you smoke good shit and you go, oh, it's just feels like I smoked a plant. Oh, that's nice. And that's what you want. Now I want to smoke pot. See? But by the way, I would have had this energy towards alcohol.

I did have this energy towards alcohol. Yeah. I was the Guinness brand ambassador. Oh, wow. So I had to go around talking about Guinness for two years. In a way of, like, friendly adores liquor reps. Yeah. Which are a special breed of hell that you probably have to deal with.

By the way, one of my best friends is a liquor rep and I love them to death. But there are guys in that business that. No, well, I love the whole, because I dove into the, the whiskey world and you know some of it is like I was interested in anyway but like it's all self-assignment so you sit there it's like people think like oh does so does Netflix come and knock on your door and say hey in six months we want a special no they don't you got to go you got to go do it you know and then they'll see it so it's all self-assignment even from this that's where like the audacity of a comedian to just go on stage is pretty

pretty bizarre, right? It just doesn't make sense. Fermenting anything is bizarre. It's in the same realm. You know what I mean? It's the self-starter. It's the exact same thing you were saying about it's a self-assignment for stand-up with bourbon. The thought of like, that's why I always knew that it's like a human condition thing when you find out guys get good at making prison wine. Oh, yeah. And you go, yeah, I would get good at fermenting shit if I had to live in a cell. And, you know, obviously men and women, but like the whiskey world, the, the whiskey nerds, how they, you know, some of it, obviously alcoholism is a very serious thing. But what hopefully identify in the bourbon set is that

there's another level, which is a, a geekdom that is separate from the fact that it's a poison that, you know, I'm this crippled an entire island. You know how you're talking. You know how you're talking. about how like society is broken in every way. These are one of those broken things where it goes, yeah, but I'm a die hard football fan. And I watch these hits at home eating snacks. And I go, ooh, and this guy's got brain damage now. So you can separate yourself from the fact that you go,

well, I know, this is bad, but I like it. You know what I mean? It's like, there is like this, I think what has happened is this complete bailing on accountability. this like bailing on like yeah I know I know that kind of sucks it is interesting like it kind of sucks and I do like there was a good they had like a decade where people were like this is incredibly dangerous yeah look at Jim McMahon what has happened yeah and now people are like yeah well that's the cost of business exactly I was just going to say that I was just

going to say well that's the cost of business and there really is a lot of that in everything where they go abdication you know what else they're doing it you know what else they're doing it you what else they're doing it with. Plastics and water. Yeah. Where they go, hey man, sorry,

you got a spoon in your brain now. And you go, no accountability at all? No, we're trying. Maybe move the different kind of... But we also are all guilty of it. Like when we're microwave something in plastic

and we know we shouldn't, we're like, yeah, fuck, I don't want to put it on a paper plate. And I'm guilty of it just like anybody. I go, yeah, but a bottle of water is so easy just to go,

like, can you grab me a bottle of water out of the fridge? They gave up on that of that. We got to. to get rid of all these bottles. Folks, we got to get rid of all these bottles. And then it's like, all right, we tried that. Let's move on.

Straws, too. Turtles made a real push. And then that was like, honestly. What about the owls? The owls, people. All right, time to move on. That might have been, if there ever was a right wing turn on me, it would have been the straws for the turtles.

Because I was going like, plastic straws are the only thing that makes sense in this world. And if all the world, all the shit that happens in this world, plastic straws. And when I went to fucking get a paper straw and I'd be like, you piece of shit. It's just the cardboard from a toilet paper roll. It unravels in my drink.

It tastes like the paper. And you put it out and when you see the wood struck, the paper's drawn dancing in your fucking McDonald's spray. You see all the color that dye coming up. And it's like all unraveling. It's doing that thing with its weird cardboard fingers.

You're like, get the fuck out of my drink. So what do you think? All right. Now I want to hear your predictions of what Is the comedy boom? Is it slowing down? It's, it's,

I'll tell you that as a fan. Yeah. I'm still a fan of stand-up. Yeah. And I try to preserve that as much as I can. I still love this shit. I still like love watching, like,

it's not lost on me that I, like that part is, and I, that sounds like some corny fucking award speech, except in speech, but it's the truth. I'm just like, I just love it, man.

It's like Dirk Diggler and Boogie Nights. He's like, let's just keep rocking and roll. But it really is like, I won't watch Rock at the cellar. I won't watch Chappelle at the cellar. I won't watch these guys because I want to see their specials. I don't want to watch Louie. I don't want to watch Bill Burr.

I want to see your hour because I know you're at a point in your career where you go, I know when it's done. I don't want to go in the kitchen and watch you cook it. I just want to sit at a table and have it put in front of me and go, I love the way this guy cooks. That genuinely is what I do. And I'll tell you is I'm a fan of stand-up. it's over exposed it's over exposed and that's why we had we had a deal we were going to do a thing on

the podcast where if we talked to inside baseball he was going to taser me oh that's so interesting but i bought a taser and i i i bought one that was too big and it'll give me a cardiac arrest so if you have any ideas of how we can go around this comment go off in the comments but yeah it's kind of what you're talking about about the shame of like doing too many commercials I think comics were going like, oh, we're making money doing podcasts or making money doing stand-up. I think the reversal of it,

and I felt this way watching your special, Teach for America needs to start taking stand-up comedians and making them be public educators for two years in one subject. So like the way you learned about Bourbon, like I'll go learn about the War of 1812. Yeah. Then they'll put me...

I mean, there are a lot of comedians with history, Shane is, Shane's got a history degree. Yeah, well, also, Janice and Colin Quinn. There's all these guys that I know. But if you put us, you go, you know what? You get that theater tour. It's the most money you'll ever make in your life.

And then the next year, you're in New Orleans in the ninth ward, teaching the war of 1812. But stand-up rules. Yeah. So you get to be funny. So you get to make these kids laugh while you're teaching them. And also, they get out of line, it's heckler rules. So you get to go sit down.

You can't even read at a fourth grade level. Look at this fucking idiot. This fucking idiot sucks his thumb. Look at this guy. I caught you sucking your thumb twice. And then you heckle them. So they're in it. But that's how,

I think this is how we're going to fix the education system is you got to take too rich. Kevin Hart's going like, all right, bam. Now here's what happened at Selma. And he's like, oh, shut out,

you're corny now. He's like, I'll kill you. Yeah. I mean, there is something about, I mean, you know,

I'm sure, let's talk about church. But like, you go to church and you're like, dude, what are you guys doing? Yeah, they're not, they're running an old playbook.

It's like when you watch a, remember when colleges? Because coaches kind of get age out of it. It's like Joe Gibbs was really good and then it's just like, come on. It's like when you watched up until recently, like a team run like just the option. And you go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Guys, they've learned how to stop that. There's three different ways you can go on an option. I grew up watching Colorado versus Nebraska. And Nebraska would go, hoop, dupe, dupe, dupe, they'd, do like a three-card Monty where I handle the ball, I throw it to him and I gave it to him and it worked and they and they won fucking national championships and then everyone went oh well and I'll just get like a big safety to play linebacker and then he can just follow

your guy and now he can fuck that shit up and it's kind of like that's what happens is the church is running the old program yeah they're going like we're not going to drop back everyone's like these people should have wives they should have somewhere for their semen to go yes and they go that's crazy shut your mouth and you're like I'm just trying to modify your system. Like, I think that, you know, I'm, you know, just talking out my ass here, but like, I mean, that's what all podcasting is. I do think that comedy from when I started has evolved so much and because of obviously

the internet, but even cable TV. So like the fact that people can find their comic or a handful of comics that they enjoy, like it can't contract back all the way back. Now people can, you know, people can lose, uh,

you know, momentum, you know, like people can be a arena acts and then it disappears. But like comedy itself. So once people get it, because, you know,

Seinfeld says this, it's like going to a comedy show is a better bet than seeing a movie. Yeah, because you can do your research in a way where you go, you know,

there might be a director that you like, but he could have a miss. But you can't trust the reviews. Well, it also means with all this stand-up, if someone doesn't like you, they've seen a lot of you. The sample size has been tested.

If someone doesn't like me, I go, hey, there's enough out there where God bless you. And I think that is something where it's like, that's accountability that comics don't take. We're quick to go, they're bots. They're not,

and I go, I'm like, I still have the part of my brain that goes, they might be right. I might suck at this. Of course. I might really be bad at this, but that's also, I think what's good for anyone that's a performer is you,

it's like Bill Burr used to have this great thing where he was like, you want 80% of the audience to love you and 20% of the audience to not like you. Really? Yeah, I was like a thing you used to say. And I understood why it's because like you can get lost in that 20% and go like, why am I not making you laugh? And you're ignoring 80% that's going like,

This is the best. But you got to acknowledge that 20%. Yeah. They're not acknowledging them or kicking them out. You're not making a bold enough choice. Yeah. Also, if you're doing 100% somethings. Yeah, no.

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I think like any friendship, there has to be, because I believe that stand-up comedy, even though I know that there is the fandom thing and all that, I think it's much more of a peer group thing that people like your stand-up. So therefore, I think, you know, similar to a friendship, you have to constantly be challenging. You can't have the same conversation with someone.

So, like, you know, it's like the great crime. And, you know, people say like, oh, you know, it's just the same material every hour. It's not. If it is, there's, and I'm not saying that some people might want to just see the same stuff. But I think most evolving friendships, you have the same roots, but you're not having the same conversation. You might have a nostalgic moment.

Sure. but like even when we were talking about friends some of it is it's not like if you're giving shit to each other it's not the exact same joke no that's actually what makes it better is other stuff happens and you take that friendship and it evolves and you and you talk about that thing you know i've been friends with the same group of guys since high school yeah we're all similar but we're not the same right our friendships are all similar when we just got together like last month because we hadn't seen each other in a while and it was like the hang felt but it It wasn't the same hang. We weren't talking about shit from 2003. We're like sitting there. Everyone's got families now and everyone's talking about shit. But there is still the same angles and elements. We're making fun of certain friends.

They're busting balls. I brought a comedy thing. I was hot on like a comedy thing. And this is why it's important to have friendships that go a long time. I brought a comedy thing that I was mad about. And I'm used to like talking to comics. We'll be like, yeah, fuck that. Fuck that.

And I told my friends and they went, what are we supposed to be mad about and you're like you say it out loud and you go oh this is lame as hell like i remember being on the phone with my friend who has twin daughters and they're just in the background screeching like hawks just like yeah and he's and i'm like going off about how i had a bad show and he's like yeah yeah yeah and he goes uh get down stop doing that yeah sorry your school shooting joke didn't work out it was like he came back to something and you're like what do i What am I thinking the importance? Yeah, no, there's the moments of you can have conversations that you can't,

you can't sit there and explain. It's like, it's not that you're rooting against this person. The injustice here is that this person did this joke and some of it is just the zeitgeist caught on. Sure. And they're like, you're doing what you love, right? Yeah. I think like that should be the, I think that's like, if I could give every comedian

in a pill of something. It would be like a realization pill that they're like, oh, I remember going to open mics and just like waiting. Like I love, when I was coming up and hearing those stories

about you at your job showing up at an open mic in a suit. Yeah. And then like, but also the access, Colin, when I used to open for Colin, he'd always be like,

yeah, your generation's doomed. You guys know too much about stand-up. He's like, there was this element of not knowing it and then you work and discover it because I would sit down and be like, so you did this special. And I, because I grew up like a fan, like, yeah, yeah.

You know, even this talking to you right now, you know how many times Joe List and I quote your heat joke from your Comedy Central presents. I want to talk about it now. Yeah. It's like, I've said that punchline in my life more like a catchphrase. Like I just watched Alien Earth and everyone's like, yeah, I came out months ago. You go, I want to talk about it now. But it is like that's, I think to me is like what you were saying with the peer group,

I found my friends and shit that I liked with people that like stand up. Yeah. Because it was all this thing that you go like, see this guy's joke? This guy did it like this. And List was one of my first friends when I moved here that we would quote the Seinfeld documentary comedian to each other. And he was like, oh, you're into it. And then he got me into Regan.

I liked Regan, but he got me like into Regan. And it would be like, oh, well, what about this guy? And it becomes like bands. We're like, you haven't heard this guy? If you like this. Yeah, yeah. And you would get like a, dude, I'd get a burnt. My friend Trent Cole would give me a burnt stand.

Hope, a CDR from Stanhope and some fucking random ass, like, Vegas show. And I would listen to it and be like, this is the best. Yeah. I remember buying a Lenny Bruce album and being like, I don't get it. Yeah, yeah. And then feeling like, am I dumb? Am I dumb? And you know, it's so interesting because then if you listen to the Lenny thing at a different

time, you'd be like, oh, wow, this is. I bet if I listen to Lima, Ohio right now, I would be like, Oh, I get it. But when I was in my 20s, but you know what I liked in my 20s was Bill Hicks, going like, the government's fucking, you're like,

that is. What was crazy is I remember when I started, I started in Arizona in 2004, and when I moved here at that time, there was a lot of open micers trying to be either Dane Cook or Doug Stanhope. That was my, you saw like hot guys doing over exaggerated movements.

Yeah, yeah. And you saw guys look like school shooters, going up there with a notepad being like, the war in Iraq, is it right? And you'd go like, oh, 20 years for now, you might be able to do these jokes. Not right now. Yeah, no.

I remember. Watch the guys at Mike's two fucking 9-11 bits that would fucking bomb worse than the towers did. It was so fucking wild, dude. It was wild. I remember seeing, because when I started with Geraldo, it's so funny because Geraldo wanted to be, uh he wanted to be brian reagan i wanted to be a tell really yes and and and that's crazy to me

because if i were to put that puzzle switched yeah and then it and what's what made it switch some of it is you know you have to and you know i know authenticity's used a lot it's like what is real for you yeah what can you do so in other words it's you know and and what are the opportunities So the, you know, Greg, Greg and I had open mics. God, yeah, he was working at the law firm and you were, and you were working at your job. Yeah, and so like, but it was this. I would say your class was our, our favorite, like, you're what we latched on to. Good day to cross the river.

I still listen to it once a year. Yeah. And so it was just, uh, so he wanted to be like Regan. He wanted to be like fluffy and light, not that, no, no, he wanted to be the animated. I mean, well, so. of it is like you know if by the way if you could like Brian Regan live in a theater and by the way in a comedy club is like still one of the most amazing things you know he reminds me of is B.B. King it's just like B.B. King up until the day he died they'd be like go into a room and

watch him perform yeah he'll blow your fucking head like yeah you'll blow your wig back and so like the whole thing with but like a tell it was the sheer like the stuff that atel would do because he would go on every night with at least five new minutes yeah and he would never do those jokes again and people would be like comedians would be like i'll take those yeah i remember mike de stepano yeah we were at a show at caroline i was just like an open mic or hanging out on the on the peripheral but mike de stephano smoking a cigarette in the bathroom of carolines. He goes, I'm telling you, I'm waiting for an accident. Because if a tell goes down, I'm taking all those jokes.

He doesn't use it to seller. And I got a new hour. He was just very matter of fact about it. He goes, I'm waiting for an accident because there's about an hour that he doesn't fucking touch that everybody wants. It's so. But you know, what's interesting is because stylistically, you're right, how it swaps. Yeah.

But now that I'm thinking about Geraldo bits, there are Regan, inspired deliveries the yo monica you got aids yo he's like is that how bad are and then it comes down to like a gregg where it's very smart like is that how bad our health care system is and then he goes big and like but i don't know yeah yeah i can see that and you know some i mean it was very interesting when gregg because now the roast thing is totally you know like totally standard and also just like premium, but there was a time when it was just this kind of niche thing that Jeff Ross or Jeff Lifsholtz at the time was doing. Yeah.

And it was one of those. Like at the Friars Club. It was a very unique thing, but he kind of propelled it, obviously, to make it huge. And now it's this standard bearer, right? When they were, when Geraldo was doing it, there was a little bit, I was like, I was like, that's interesting and it wasn't a snobby thing it was just kind of but it was such a great outlet for him because he was obviously the killer you know my gosh nicky and amy got a breakthrough on there too mickey's fantastic at roast jesselnick but geraldo was the guy where like

every roast you were like I'm excited to see his set and and he was he was not a put-down comic no you know what I mean so you watch his stand up and it's so different from the roasts and obviously like you know he's friends with jesse joyce who i love fantastic comic and a guy that helped him with those roast jokes and what it was interesting is especially with my generation of comedy you're like talking about how it was this odd thing yeah roast battling got huge yeah for a couple years and i would always compare it to the dunk competition where you're like it's like slam dunking where you're like it's so cool when guys can do it yeah but that does not necessarily translate to them being good at basketball yes so there are guys and so it's

interesting because like Giroldo was like a guy who was good at basketball that could just fucking win the dunk competition every year at the NBA All-Star game. Absolutely. And you're like, oh, but it is, that's the closest analogy I can find where it was like, people were doing it, but in ways where you go, well, it doesn't really seem efficient. And then like now it's blended in to stand up so much that you go. It's a part of it. I mean, it was the number one thing that Tom Brady thing.

Yeah, that Tom Brady thing was massive. It was like a massive. And you know what's weird about that is it's one of the only things I've seen in the last 15 years that like a Seinfeld finale people go like you watch the brady roast like yeah brought back water cooler talk for like a week there i i wonder is you know because also looking at tom brady's face like he was like this was a mistake oh yeah right oh yeah and he did not like it there's also a guy that has to have that kind of confidence or he's going to get killed and why he's got why did he do it

fame because i think what happens is he gets big off football well then football goes away and you're like well i want that light like how do you do it they go how about the biggest event of all time you go we're going to have a bunch of dorks taking shots at you and he's like fine he goes these are nerds i don't care and you go well tom here's the thing your whole life you've been fucking victoria secret pussy and winning championships yeah these guys have been thinking about mean things to say to you you know what I mean but how do they out how do they outdo that I mean I remember even when they were doing the roast and they had like Alec Baldwin they had Donald Trump roast yeah they had just everyone what was it's like how didn't Martha Stewart was she didn't get

roasted but she was on with Pam Anderson roast yeah Pam Anderson thing was huge how you know I don't know some of it is like also I'm thrilled that it exists but it's also like there's part of me it's like and I think that when Alec Baldwin did it there was a big check written for a charity so I get it but I'm like I don't know can I ask you this is like I don't know if I want to do that this is this is talking this is us taking accountability like Nate would never do that I couldn't I could oh be roasted or you know like when you guys were like when we roasted we had a roast of date we had a roast of date at the creek in the cave but that's when it was fun that was when it was friends on friends I'm in it was

brutal. We did a Janus Poppus roast at the creek, and there are jokes that I still think about. Mike Racine, it was right after Mike Di Stefano died, and Chris DeStefano was there, and Mike Racine went, well, the wrong Di Stefano died. And like, it's just in front of him. And then he went, Mike Racine's joke, he was like, you know, I love the creek, but Rebecca Trent is a lot like Lenny Bruce. People tell you it's important, but then you listen to it, and you go, I don't get it he had uh joe list had one of my favorite i still remember joe list joke where he said um yannis poppis puts on a dress and says the n-word and is considered a comedic genius in that case my mother is a comedic genius and it was like all these jokes i remember michael chae bombed

michael chay was so hot at the time and he was we were all friends he was coming up to creek but he was like the new guy that was really killing and he didn't write and he went up there and like had like a minute of good shit and then everyone watched it and everyone was like boo and it was so like a clubhouse it just felt like uh yeah there i mean i don't even think it was half sold it was like all these people were there and there was barely like 20 people there but we got a bucket of free tecate's because rebecca let us do the show and i remember us just like shitting on each other in very mean ways but you saw who excelled and who didn't i was never good at it i don't know why I think it's my, in a, I want to be liked.

Yeah. So I have a hard time being mean to people unless I'm angry. Right. And I don't want to get angry for a show, you know. Are you good at roasts? No. No. I.

Because we both have the, it was one of the coolest things you ever said to me when I got off stage. I think it was like Gotham. I got off stage and you go, you and I have the same kind of white dude rage. And I went, you called it like trailer rage. know it yes and you and i was like you were walking away there's something about it's because i think that you have to retain a likeability up there and like i think you can be like louis black can rant sure he's a very likable guy and people are like oh he's this intellectual professor who's ranting he's like bernie sanders and but like and you know stanhope can pull it off but like there's

Some white guys, if they're angry, people are like, oh, shit. You know what? He's going to beat a woman. That's probably the explanation of why so many guys were trying to be Stanhope. It was because he was saying such smart shit, but with the air of a guy at a bar that you're waiting for your drink and he's telling you and you're gone, oh, I didn't know they put that in the water. You go, another round and you're like talking to him, you go, I'm not threatened by this guy. I'm waiting for my drink. Yeah.

But you're right. Certain white guys, you get mad and they go, Shannon can pull it off. Burr's great at being angry on stage. Yeah. He can simmer on stage. Well, Burr is like it's, you know, it's like he's mastered a seemingly toxic statement. Yeah.

And then he unravels it. Yeah. And he gets the majority of the audience. But there's some people that are still bitching and moaning. I love it. It's a genius. It's word Houdini. He's like word Houdini where he's like,

I'm going to put myself in this in this stray jacket and dip myself in water. Women shouldn't vote. I was going to get out of this. And they're like four minutes later. He's like out and he goes, da-da, see you're like a dumb horse. Sometimes you'll see like Conan clips where a burr like back in when he was on the Conan's TBS show where it was obvious they'd called him and they're like,

Bill, can you do Conan? He's like, yeah, I'll do it. And then they're like, so it'll be like someone, he just makes a choice. He's like, I don't like Bill Gates. Yeah. And he'll just go on. And some of it is he's so smart. He can find an angle, but it's almost kind of like if he had waited a month,

he would have found this perfect clean thing. Yeah. And but like he was so comfortable. and so used to, I think, like, I think that his podcast was very instrumental in him kind of articulating ideas. I used to listen to all the time and he'd rant and I'd go like, yeah, that's it. That's the exact point. And that's why he does find stuff because I remember the Bill Gates stuff, the thing that always made me laugh, something that he pointed out that I never thought.

He goes, and you know, he'd be eating a pretentious fruit like a pear with no shoes on. And you're like, it's exactly how I'd picture a pretentious tech guy. Yeah. Building a phone. Yeah. Like, that's always my favorite thing. It was always like, Chappelle, whenever he would come to the cellar,

I would watch Chappelle talk about places people were from in a way that was funnier than anybody I ever saw do it. I remember this guy was like, yeah, I'm from Singapore. And Chappelle went, damn, so you landed and bought all the bubble gum, huh? And he did like a chompel and you're like, that's so smart. You need to know that it's illegal to chew bubble gum in Singapore. and he was doing it and it was like this act out that just it was like me and three other people that like lost it and i was like that's the best because he just is like when you watch people

do like they're like Nate used to call me and like bitch about something yeah and like six months later it'd be like a seven minute bit it first happened where he was watching 60 minutes and he's like you know people are buying tigers and i was like no and he's like I mean that's like worse than guns and then the next thing you do is you see it and you go oh that's fully fleshed like he talks in fully fleshed out bits Christmas he called me and he was like my mom doesn't have grape jelly in the refrigerator he's like that's ridiculous and I was like it is ridiculous everybody has an old grape jelly in the refrigerator and then it's on his special but it's and he's like I changed it to ketchup but it's beat for beat his points that he was making to me in conversation

which is which is back to our point where it is it's inspired by anger but making it palatable yes whereas like for someone like uh you know lewis black he yells about it and it's the the hyperbole of his reaction that works but for like white guys like me you and nate we have to sit there and we have to find a comfortable thing yeah where like like when Nate talks about his wife yeah it's like you know it's a finished bit yeah it's like but he's so smart and socially nimble yeah well he can go in between every you know he loves his wife but he's frustrated and it only works and that's like me complaining about my kids it's like yeah if I wasn't present and I was like my these kids that I see once a year that wouldn't

be as funny yeah as like I see them a lot and I'm annoyed by them yeah and that was kind of like was similar with like uh i i even now have a bit about my grandmother but i had like multiple bits about my grandmother it's because like well i was helping to take care of her and all this stuff and i love her the most but i got but she does shit that makes me of course pretty angry i need to put this somewhere because this sucks and that's why this joke that i'm doing now about her dying it happened in real time and it you do get to this age of doing standup where you go like this thing happened and my cousin Lisa was like this is going to be a joke isn't it and you're like oh 100% yeah and then she saw me do it at the Columbus funny bone and she was

like that's exactly how it happened yeah she was like I remember talking to him about it and this is exactly and you're like yeah because I was upset it came from a place of being upset angry sad yeah and then sitting with it for a while and going like you know what I noticed about that and some of it is it's the anger thing but it's also the obsession thing because there was a moment where uh because my wife and i started drinking bourbon during the pandemic and then it it came a point where uh i was doing material on it and she goes can't we just keep the bourbon just like that we have this moment why do you need to harvest everything katy and i it's kind of like Kanye west didn't he write that poem for kim and then he's like i need that for the song you know what's funny is

when during the pandemic, I was doing bonfire. Yeah. And sometimes I would bring up jokes at Katie and I, she's hilarious that we'd come up with in our house, like bits, like house bits. Yeah. And she'd go, can we keep the house bits? Oh, that's interesting. And I was like, you know what?

That's very fair. And she's like, it's funny. Sometimes she's also sometimes that's our stuff. And then there's been times where I try house pits and they don't work out of the house. And then you feel real dumb. There you go, oh, fuck. This is cutesy and fun with me and my wife. I didn't know this was.

that house bits that's a brilliant thing yeah i mean we just have a lot of house bits there are like bits that we do where we go well we'll like when we're at thanksgiving with your family we'll like call back to our house bit and no one else will get it and you guys it because there's house bits and then there's there's uh there's road bits like do you have bits with sagelow and i have road bits like you'll be on the road with us and you're like sagelow and i go on the road together and we'll just like do a thing and you go that's a road bit and then you'll try to bring someone else in on the road and They go, I don't get the bait. Yeah, no, we were here when we built it.

We were doing Daniel Simonson. Yeah. Who's brilliant. Oh, my God. Daniel Simonson is brilliant. Yeah. But Saglow and I got high at our hotel, and we were doing him saying Backstreet Boy lyrics. And it was making us laugh in such a back of the bus going, because I wanted that way.

He's like, you are? Like a white guy with anger. Oh, but he's so smart that he's like learned a different language to be angry in a funny way. So funny, like, you know, the Gotham vintage room, which is, like, there are rooms that, uh, that, and I love Gotham and I love the stand, but like that room upstairs in at the stand and Gotham's vintage room are not good for stand. No, but I do both of them for eating. They're good for like having a small private party. Yeah, that's what it always feels like. You think you're giving a speech at a.

Maybe a post party for a wake. Yeah. The one downstairs at Gotham, you truly feel like you just took over the corner of a room where people are having a nice time. And, you know, every comedian, it's very familiar because you start in those rooms. Yeah. But like, but Daniel, seeing him go on because it's so interactive and seeing these, him doing this brilliant stuff and the audience not understanding it. Yeah. And then him suppressing the annoyance with them and then climbing on board.

but like there's the the show bit that uh you know like when with ted alexandro like and matt owens who i open you know we uh on the road i love ted i love uh they'll make you know like we'll get to the venue and ted'll be like does baby want a coffee and i'm like baby wants a coffee yeah that's it you know so it's like it's like a baby needs a sleeve because it's just like i've told it i'm i've told the story before on the podcast but it's true shane when Shane used to go on the road with me we had a bit where he is like what's your fucked up thing

he's like you're just like a nice guy you smoke too much weed that's like your that's your thing he's like I don't believe that's your thing and then it was our running joke that I would go into cities and go under bridges and jack off homeless men and and then we did this voice where he'd go like oh hey buddy I was asleep

what are you doing and then Shane and I would laugh we're going like oh whoa hey hey slow down I'm about to lose it and so we'd make each other laugh And then I was taking this vacation. And the video game Red Dead Redemption 2 came out. And Shane calls me. And he picks up and he's like, dude, have you played Red Dead Red Dead Redemption 2 yet?

And I'm like, no, I'm gone. I'm coming back next week. And I'm going to play it. I bought it. So I'll play it. And he goes, dude, the main character is our homeless jerkoff guy voice. And I was like, what do you mean? He goes, Arthur Morgan is our homeless jerk off guy voice.

And then you play the game. He goes, well, damn, Josie. And I was like, it is. I played it. I called him. I was like, it is. So it was like a road bit that he came into like the zeitgeist in a way that we're like, Arthur Morgan is our homeless jerkoff guy voice.

Well, hey, buddy, your hands are pretty cold. Oh, geez. We would do Bay Area rapper E40 as a sex pest. I don't know if you know who E40 is. He's a black guy with a very specific way of talking, but he rhymes. He goes, ooh, my name is E40, like the way he talks. But we would have him doing like gross porn convention things where he's like, ooh, I saw Jana Jameson and I gave her a doll made out of her hair and we're like oh but we were doing like

creeped out E-40 is the thing that we would try to explain to other people and it just would like bomb in front of us but we go it's still a good bit yeah road bits and home bits house bits house bits road bits I like it you need them and by the way this is what people at work I when I was a waiter yeah I always had like three different bits with one of the runners one of the Mexican runners I convinced this girl He'd be like They'd be like Oh fuck it

And then I went Dude that's my sister And then he was Francisco was like Mita I'm so sorry I didn't know she was your sister And I was like now I'm fucking with you My sister

And then he'd be like I'm fucking And then the rest of the time I'm like don't that's my sister And they'd be like our bit Where he'd be like Tell your sister I love And then in 20 years

He's gonna come to you And go that's my sister And you're like Who the fuck are you? I go get away from me I go I support him Deport him

Let's just melt down you're not eating in it. All right. What is going to happen? What is America going to look like in six months? Six months, who fucking knows? I don't even know. I do feel in the next 10 years we will see important people get elected that have had to worry about old podcast episodes, which will be very funny.

I wonder. Because like that guy in Maine, right? Yeah, that got the tattoo removed, the Nazi tattoo. but like is so like the right has no purity test and the left is kind of like wait a minute did you say dude the left is uh did you say uh did you say uh there with an i yeah the one that they used to bust our balls on facebook about yeah is there a new thing about how they railroad politicians i think it that is the thing it's like you have to be katherine zeta jones in that in that fucking laser movie when you're on the left where you have to like

lift your leg up, now swing it, now drop it. And like, that's the difference. Is the left is Catherine Zeta Jones and Sean Connery going, do a sexy dance to get a little piece of jewelry. And the right is heat where they go, why did Wengo shoot that guy in the face? And they go, because he looked at him too long. And you go, okay.

It's like you're either the shootout from heat politically or you're in the fucking, or you're just in the middle going, I love heist movies because they all fucking. I think there's going to have to be, a we're going to have to evolve where you know it's so funny i'll probably get in trouble for this but like there's going to have to be a certain amount of humans or morons i went through my moron face yeah by the way i think that's everybody i was a huge moron dude yeah it was a fucking

huge moron my 20s that's what your 20s are i've got kids yeah and i'm like oh yeah you're you're watching to go through it i'm like oh my god you know like i dude i was 16 the dumb shit That I, you know, we, we started this podcast talking about stealing fucking political street signs. Yeah. But it's like, there was nothing. You think that comedians are predisposed to conspiracy? Absolutely. Good ones are.

Yeah. Good ones are. Good ones are creative and they're also. You have to have a point of view and a suspicious mindset. You have to be suspicious. You have to go, that's why we're horrible at taking compliments. Someone goes, good job and you go. Yeah, it's all imposter fraud.

Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's wrong that any comedian gets married. We're just ruining these people. You know what's great, though, with her is I feel like she's like... The fact that she's tied up in the next room is not good either. Or we're into it. I came in and she was like gagged and I was like, what's this all about?

And I go, don't worry about it. I go, it's this. She's watching ESPN. I was like, what does that mean? I go, that's our code word, which means she's safe. But it is, man. It's like we shouldn't be important. We should be making fun.

shit yeah it's like i i want to be the comic that you want to have a smoke break with not ask me what's happening at work i don't fucking know i'm not paying attention i just trying to get through my day go home and play video games i'm fucking sick all this shit that's really how i feel and that's why i loved watching your your special it was like you know oh shit this guy did a whole 45 minutes on bourbon with jokes oh thanks like with jokes or jokes that i was like I'm not I can't drink I'll die but I go this fucking we got dude I'm telling you there were parts where I was like oh hell yeah no I don't want that I don't want that's why I had that joke about it it's like I don't want because I I understand it is a struggle

I don't want someone to drink I don't want something to they go like when you know what you're doing or you're going like when you're going like uh you know there's like Irish whiskey and there's Scott whiskey and you're going oh I remember that flavor I was in here going yeah room temperature it's the best the cold beer but also what's great about it is is someone that doesn't drink immediately when you were in the liquor store stuff

I mean for me personally I was just like oh this is my shit when you're like I am going to talk about liquor stores if I would have been there out and been like yeah I want to know about it because it is it's great check out the special it's on YouTube the link is below Jim Gaffigan is one of the best

comics of all time I can't thank you enough for coming on the podcast Thank you so much appreciate it cool I'm going to be able to be.