Soder - 37: The Spoiler with Brian Koppelman | Soder Podcast | EP 37

Episode Date: July 24, 2024

Support the sponsors to support the show! To get this new customer offer and your new 3-month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month go to MINTMOBILE.com/SODER It’s finally time to stop crushing your balls in uncomfortable jeans by going to theperfectjean.nyc. Our listeners get 15% off your first order plus Free Shipping, Free Returns and Free Exchanges when you use code SODER15 at checkout. That’s 15% off for new customers at theperfectjean.nyc with promo code SODER15 After you purchase, they’ll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support our show and tell them we sent you. F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean. Follow Brian Koppelman https://www.instagram.com/briankoppelman/?hl=en PLEASE Drop us a rating on iTunes and subscribe to the show to help us grow. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/soder/id1716617572 Dan is on the road all 2024! Get tickets @ https://www.dansoder.com/tour Aug 15 - Regz Live - Hyannis,MA Aug 29-Aug 31 - Charlotte,NC Sep 13-14 St.Louis Nov 9 - Toronto, Canada Dec 6 - Chicago, IL Dec 7 - Milwaukee, WI Connect with me! Twitter: https://Twitter.com/dansoder Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dansoder Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dansodercomedy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dansoder Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/@dansoder.comedy #dansoder #standup #comedy #entertainment #podcast Produced by    @homelesspimp   https://www.instagram.com/thehomelesspimp/?hl=en

The Ending After Ending You're the greatest woman wrestler of all time. Maybe to me, you know, one of the, I think Mount Rushmore, Becky Lynch, the man. By the way, last night, the new WWE Women's Champion. And I would say, you know, not even limiting it. I mean, you know, my Mount Rushmore, Becky Lynch, the man, is on of all wrestlers. I think she is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. There's no argument.

One of my favorite figures who ever lived in professional wrestling. Yeah, I can go deep on it. There are areas that I'm not as checked out on, but well, you just told me before the mics were on. Yeah. Because I knew that you ruined the ending of Billions Season 7 for a lot of people. I don't think I did though, as much as I, I don't think I ruined it as much as I gave away.

You spoiled it by the definition of spoilers. I said it was the last. So what happened was, is I was doing, and this is, listen, no excuse, I will take the accountability. I fucked up big time. I was doing shows in Chicago. I did like eight shows at Zany's in Chicago. It's great club.

I was just running the hour. I was burnt out and CBS. You're stacking excuses right now. I mean I'm still like the princess gets on the bed of mattresses. She could still feel the pee is still there Dan. The pee is there. So I went on NBC Sports Chicago and they were like hey come and talk sports and then they were like billions and they said and talk sports. And then there were like billions and they said billions and I went, yeah, it's the final season.

Let me tell you right now, two things happened after this. I said it so casually that I was like, oh, everyone knows. I like, I said it cause I thought. Because you were like, you had that idea, like you're almost like a Trumpian, if you say it, it must be true. No, but I just.

But it must be fine if you say the king says it. Let me tell you what it is. I assumed, and what happens when you assume, you make an ass out of yourself first. But I made an ass out of myself because I went like, oh, well everyone knows it's the final season. And. I got so many.

I got so many. I mean, here's the thing, in this era, nobody makes phone calls. It's all just emails and texts. I actually got phone calls I've had a couple phone calls the past two years from people where I go like oh So I got phone call like when your phone starts ringing like you're in the West Wing. Yeah Like back then the phone rang every call now is like it's the president Yeah, who's calling it?

That's a male if it's not spam, if it's not spam. And suddenly your phone's blown up. You're, you have to get your funeral suit out or someone's getting, so, cause it was a secret that everyone's sworn to everything about the show. I mean, you guys kept a tight lid on billions. You kept a tight lid on. And for most of us for that from from for for most of it. I was very good about it. And what I just found out is that not only will hold on real quick cause I

want to finish this before we move away from it. So the next day I do a site, I do two Sunday shows and I come back on Monday and I'm Katie and I are just hanging out and you and David text me and you go, Hey, did you, you go, Hey, did you give away that this is the final season on TV? And I went, no, oh no. And I was like, yeah, I did. And then you, you were, you were like, you were very cool about it. You go, Hey, keep a tight lid on it. Like it was on local sports, Chicago. We'll keep it on there. Right. And I'm like, dude, great. And then the next day my former agent and all these people are texting me and

deadline is like, I was like, Oh fuck, fuck. I saw that. I was like, Oh fuck, dude. That made me the anxiety that I was like, you fucking idiot. You opened your mouth. Well, they just had their way that they wanted to talk about I know the network had a way they apply I'm a wrestler because I would blow cave a but now you just told me the great thing is which I didn't realize Is in season five we had this incredible opportunity where Becky Lynch season You know we were able to get her to do the show I'd worn up I wore a Becky man the man t-shirt

This is Becky by the way, this is when Becky Lynch just headlined WrestleMania. Yeah, the year she was at the top. It was the first woman ever to, woman's match to ever headline a WrestleMania. Her, Ronda Rousey, and Charlotte Flair. She's got the title on top of the world, and then you let me know, we got Becky Lynch.

Well, yes, I wore a t-shirt, a Becky Lynch the Man t-shirt to go do some speaking thing. And then it went on social media. And then people were like, you should have Becky on the show. And I was like, anytime she wants. So then Becky and I started talking. She came on the podcast. And then Dave and I wrote this amazing thing for her

to do on Billions. The scene where Maggie, yeah, where Wendy brings out Becky as like an old friend. Now here's the thing, I, as such a mark, as such a wrestling mark, I was like, keep a lid on it, Soder. Stay cool. Fucking stay cool.

And so at rehearsal, which was at like six in the morning, she came out, by the way, nailed it. She was incredible. Nailed it. As an actor, as a stunt queen, she nailed it. She was incredible. Nailed it. As an actor, as a stunt, she did everything. Everything. It was incredible. She showed how she wanted Maggie to throw her.

She even instructed the stunt department on where to lay the pads. The whole thing was incredible. It was unbelievable. And she was so nice. She was so nice. So then, like any big appearance on Billions, it's always like by the third take, like Rich Eisen,

by like the third take of the boxing match, I was like, oh, I can start talking to Rich Eisen. Because we're like waiting for setups, we're waiting for camera angles to change. And so I start talking to Becky, and I start like really marking out. Well, it's very exciting that she's there. Well, first it's like, cool, you're Becky Lynch,

nice to meet you. And then we start casually talking about professional wrestling. And AEW was new. And I was like, do you think Kenny Omega will ever come to WWE? And she's married to Seth Rollins, arguably one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

Sort of a underdog silent MVP. I would say our generation's Bret Hart. I love it. But also like an MVP of what I think is like the greatest WrestleMania ever. His moment in the WrestleMania sets up. Basically he sets up the end of WrestleMania. He set it up and he played the straights harder. He went in there knowing he's not getting glory for it.

He's got a bad knee. He goes in there and doesn't get glory for it for it and drops the title to Drew McIntyre McIntyre and punk have that thing Damien Priest cashes in he was unbelievable also, but he's just been good for so long. And so Any wrestling fan knows you're gonna mark out It's all like talking to Becky Lynch about wrestling and I'm like, do you think Seth and Kenny will ever have a match? They're both like call themselves the best in the world. And so she's being very gracious and very cool. Yeah, well she is, yeah.

And then we're at Crafty and we're talking and she's like, it's, you know, oh, I love the, we're talking about billions and she loves the show. And we all knew, I did keep this tight lipped that Damien was leaving at the end of season five. And we're sitting there and we're talking and I go, yeah, it's just like kind of crazy this is Damien's last season and Becky Lynch goes,

Colby and I are friends, we're fans of the show. She just like says it in a way where I go, oh fuck, and I just spoiled it. And she goes like, we didn't, oh I didn't know where I go. Oh, fuck. And I just spoiled it. And she goes like, we didn't, oh, I didn't know he was leaving. And I was like, fuck, fuck, fuck, dude. I wanted to go hammer my foot with a ball peen hammer. Did you gotta get Becky on this couch?

I mean, I would be, that would be awesome. We've been trying to get, you know, wrestling is the thing for me. What is the thing for you that makes you, is it the Knicks? What do you nerd out about? Because listen, you have, and I've said this on your podcast, you are, um, you're an intelligent Forrest Gump. The life that you have lived, you have done stuff that is

like, I mean, I have a million questions for you about Metallica alone. Yeah, you can ask me anything you want, man. But what makes you, wrestling will always be the thing that I am still, for instance, and I've talked about it publicly enough, we're still in development with Peacock doing a cartoon with Stone Cold Steve Austin. I hope it goes, it might not, you know how the industry is. I'm not sour grapes about that, it's just what it is.

Yeah. Stone Cold called me and Dan St. Germain around Christmas. And we had a notes call. And I was at my mom's townhouse in Aurora. Yeah, it's heavy. And I got off the phone and my mom went, you were 12 years old right then. She was like, I was watching 12 year old Dan

have a phone call. But it's weird, because I bet you, but I bet that actually you were both thinks the same time. Because this is what happens, right? Yeah. Yes. When you speak to those people, when you engage with those people, it's like, you want to, I want to make the choice to allow myself to still be in a world of fucking wonder and amazement, but also you're a professional. And so like part of you,

cause most of the time we just go through and we don't really let ourselves take that ride. But I think it's the people who mattered when you were a kid. So like the time I got to talk to Bruno Sanmartino. Your favorite champion of all time. Getting to talk to Bruno Sanmartino, I don't want to know that I'm somebody who's lived whatever the life I've lived or I'm a grown up or I'm, you know. You want to be the little boy at MSG that's watching him.

That's why I went, you know, I went to when Bruno got inducted to the WWE hall of fame and I made the choice not to, you know, I, like you, I have friends within that organization. I didn't call anybody. You wanted to be a fan. I went as a fan. I love that. And I made my son at the time, who you know well, was studying for the SATs. And as you know, like for him, that was more important than it might've been for either of us

in terms of his sort of like focus. And the SATs were that weekend. And it was like Monday night, I guess is the thing. Usually Sunday night. They usually do it. WrestleMania used to just, when San Martino went in, it was just Sunday night I guess is the thing usually Sunday night they usually do it WrestleMania used to just when San Martino went in it was just Sunday so they would do it either maybe Friday but it was right before that usually the night before WrestleMania so maybe the SATs were like two days later

basically and he's like I was like you got to come with me to the garden and he's like no dad I actually like I got a fucking study and I was I don't know, but you know, I've had a lot of work days where it took you to see the Knicks, you know, he's like, yeah, that was one work day. I have the fucking SATs, man. This is going to let me into whatever. I got to go. And I go, no, you got to come with me. And he goes, I'm bringing my study guides.

That's so and I'm like, you're bringing it. He goes, if you're making me go to the WWE Hall of Fame which also people need to understand something about wrestling. It's very generational It's very like you said when you're a kid. They are dummy guy. He loved wrestling too Sure, but I also it is I'll say I've said this to guys who've gotten in It's pretty much the worst wrestling night of the year. They all speak for two hours Yeah, even if it's here. Unless you get a Heyman. Paul Heyman's a genius, and that was incredible.

But generally, the nights are bad. I was standing up during that. Generally, the nights are bad. Paul Heyman is a writer. He's extraordinary. But I go, and I'm wearing an old Bruno Cimertino shirt. And I'm like, whatever I've done to not unconsciously not have a Long Island accent, it's gone now.

I'm just like, fucking Bruno! Hey, Bruno, you're fucking out of court! whatever I've done to not, unconsciously not have a Long Island accent, it's gone now. I'm just like, fucking Bruno! And I'm, I am, I'm just fully in the mode. And Sam is next to me with this study guide, who are up in the fucking high seats, cause I just wanted to go like a wrestling fan. Now I will say, what the truth is, I think some, the answer to your question,

cause I love it as a question is like Michael Stipe I'm happy that I've never been able to have a normal person's conversation with him every time I've met him. I'm 19 years old again, and he's saving my life with his music because I'm in a very sad time in college. My heart's broken by this person and this older girl broke my heart and REM is the only thing that's getting me through. So even if I met him when I was 45, I can't really talk to him and I love that I can't talk to him. I completely understand that because something that a lot of my friends say and even fans

say to it, they're like, Josh H Josh Homme are you gonna get Josh Homme on Your podcast and I say almost there's a part of me that thinks like well, let's just leave it because they're similarly Their music is so important to me And and I I've always referred to it as like brain ointment Like I can listen to Queens of the Stone Age and it's like a brain ointment that is like it just it relieves a lot of... And also those musicians are like, even the ones that I've now gotten to, you know, know or I knew in a different context than like, Stipe, like Metallica, you said you

wanted to ask about Metallica. Oh yeah. They are special though. That's the thing. Like those musicians who like those fucking James Hetfield is not a normal person. And that like we can all, it's true. If we wanna say like it's not just talent or something, but whatever happened to James Hetfield from the, being raised by people who wouldn't allow any medicine and watching his relatives get sick,

all the experiences that he had and then the way that he processed all that, that turned him, when he met Lars and their superpowers joined, whatever forces made that dude able to write the things that he wrote, but also to have that particular presence that he has. For sure.

That's not a normal dude. So I've met James Hetfield 20 times. Yeah. And I've obviously like worked in a couple contexts with him. Lars I can just talk to and hang out. Lars amazing, the greatest, you know, just incredible. Sure, there's an aura though.

But James Hetfield is like, he is a guy who can galvanize 200,000 people in a stadium where nobody speaks the same language. I mean that Russian concert, I watch it on YouTube occasionally. But it's Sao Paulo right too. Sao Paulo, but the one where they let, it was like the first American rock band to play in Moscow, Iron Curtain shit. And it's like something like 9 million people.

It's a number that is so astrological and they are all, and they rule. That Metallica concert is on YouTube, you should watch it. It's a number that is so astrological and they are all, and they rule. That Metallica concert is on YouTube, you should watch it. It's fucking unbelievable. Even when they play with the symphony. It's like the San Francisco, I watched that Metallica shit. S&M album is like. Yeah, I watched that Metallica shit all the time. And even the other day they did this thing

at the Bernie Top and Elton John thing where they played Love Lies Bleeding. Did you see this? No, I didn't see it amazing. Yeah Like number one, you know the way that my relationship was with my dad anything Bay Area was sacred Anything 49ers the Giants Robin Williams Dana Carvey anybody that touched the Bay Area My father was always like Bay Area guy Barry even OJ He thought OJ was innocent cuz OJ went to Galileo High School in San Francisco. He was like, now it's the Colombians. Nicole owed them money

for coke. And you're like, Dad, I don't know about that. I'm like 11 going like, I don't know that. I'm not a lawyer, but it just seems like this guy might be guilty. But Metallica was always something. Metallica, when I go to a 49ers game. But he said, who owned the Colombians? Oh, Nicole Brown Simpson because. That's horrendous. Horrendous. I mean, he's dead. We can make fun of him. He made some poor decisions himself.

But he would. It's not. He would. He would say shit that you're like, even as a kid, I'm like, Dad, that's just Bay Area blindness. But so Metallica. But Metallica was something that I was like, I was young enough that Metallica was scary to parents. So like, you didn't want your 10 year old kid. They thought it was like satanic panic was catching on.

But even to go deeper into like the question you asked, because I love it as a question. And it's like, you have a decision when you're in the business and you can, I think, keep, I want to always be a little bit wide eyed. I just want to use the forest company, but it's like, I want to be a little wide eyed, right? Yeah. Obviously, you know, the amount of books I read and all that shit, but I don't

want to ever feel like I've grown out of understanding how incredibly remarkable great artists are. Sure. And I also have a wide, I want to have a wide aperture grown out of understanding how incredibly remarkable great artists are. And I also have a wide, I wanna have a wide aperture for what I consider great artists. Like, you know, when Triple H showed up on Billions, that was a thrill for me. Now, you work with them as a professional, you're not gonna act like, I'm not gonna act like a Mark,

but I am, because I have to deal with know, like deal with, uh, you know, Paul Heyman tried to rewrite the dialogue and I had to put it back to billions dialogue. I love Paul and he did a great job, but I, you know, I'm still going to tweet that shit. One of my favorite episodes of your podcast is that interview with Paul. I'm incredible. What a great time we had. Um, but yeah, I love Paul Heyman. Uh, but the answer is I think it's conscious. I think you consciously want to allow yourself

to be swept away by incredible work. And if sometimes that then comes across as like, why are you acting like a fan if you're a filmmaker too? Well, it's like part of why I can talk to a Quentin Tarantino and then have him come work on one of my shows and then have him on the podcast Is Quentin knows both things. He knows I think He knows I'm gonna talk to him as a as a filmmaker and a screenwriter I I can have some understanding of what he does I'm not gonna be there like a journalist trying to get him. I'm gonna be able to understand things.

But he also knows that I'm a fan. And he knows as a fan, I wanna understand a different side. And that- Well, there's something that struck you about his work that he understands, which is the connection. Yeah, man. So he kinda knows, even if you guys don't know each other, there's a connection there that you go like,

and if both sides recognize that, something that I've always really admired about you and David is that you guys go where you want to go. You don't go where, I think this business is easy to try to make a buck. People go like, well, you can make a lot of money if you go this way, but it'll be disingenuous. It'll be, and when you see those people,

and it's obvious, they're dead-end, they don't wanna be doing this. Yeah, and you'd much rather, like, now there are times when it is like heavy, and it's always the people from, like, I got to go, we were out in LA making Super Pumpt. Sure. I got invited to,

I got invited to a dinner with Kimmel and Martin Short. And I will tell you, that's a perfect example. I could barely keep it together with Martin Short. I mean, my God. I didn't even know how to, so you're trying to, you're having a conversation and you're there and you're there as a, you're supposed to be there as a fellow person who makes stuff.

Yeah, but you're almost holding in a burp of like, I want to ask so much about Jiminy Glick. Like I want to ask about three amigos. So I choose to make the choice in that spot. I will tell you, like I will always choose to make the choice to be a fan in some way. I will make the choice to let the person know and not like making them uncomfortable. But that know and not like making them uncomfortable. Yeah, but that guy Is not like that guy made me laugh so hard that I felt like literally, you know fell off a couch. So yes

Cuz the other attitude people then take I think is you go to that dinner and you just act like you don't give a shit Cuz those you're all there a choice and who wants to be that fucking guy? Yeah, he was like What are you doing? Let me tell you about. Oh, you did this. Dude, I had an honor because of Bruce Prichard from the WWE. He came out to shows, this is years ago in Austin, when I was at Cap City and he came out to shows and then very casually the next day he's like, hey, what are you doing for lunch?

You know, you wanna get lunch? And I was like, yeah, Alabama's playing Georgia. It was something like that. And he's like, cool, there's a restaurant in my hotel, we'll watch the game and have lunch. And I was like and I showed up and the undertaker and that's too much Mark is sitting there mark mean Mark Callaway aka the undertaker aka arguably the greatest wrestler of all time and it's him and Bruce who are 40 year friends, of course

I mean I learned about the undertaker because Brother Love walked him out to the rig. Like as a scared 10 year old or nine year old. So, and I did the thing that we're talking about upfront. Oh yeah, we did this and Bruce was helping me. Bruce was trying to put me over. He's like, oh, he's on billions. And it was really cool that Bruce was doing that. And then just at the end I went, what are you doing?

Just be honest. And I went, what are you doing? Just be honest. And I went, hey man, I gotta tell you, this has been awesome. I'm a huge fan. You like have been so influential. And he was like, dang, you know, he was so cool about it. Took a picture with him and it just went on my way.

But I was like, if I wouldn't have done that, that would have been a massive regret. You gotta like commute. To be like, hey man, you're the, I know I'm calling you mark right now But you're the dead man. You're the undertaker You can tightrope walk and bust someone's arm on the top row because what you're really talking about is like staying as a person and

as a for you Dan as a an artist a writer someone open to experience like Why kill the part of yourself that was the dreamer that wanted to be this? And you're like keeping that idea as corny. Like I understand that sometimes this kind of thing can sound corny, but like the truth is, everybody who does this kind of thing and wants to express these things,

it's because something in our lives was fucked up. We needed an escape. We needed a way to explain the world to ourselves when the world was painful to us. Almost everybody who does what we do, that's the truth of it. But I also think that's just humans. I think that's everybody.

But we're lucky enough, I'm saying we're lucky enough to have a way to express it. Yeah, I think the thing that I see a lot is comics a lot of times talk about the industry, we talk about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, sure. And you're like, don't get misled. It still blows me away that I can walk into a, I got to do the Patrice benefit this year and I'm sitting on a couch talking to Bill Burr, who I'm like, this guy, when I was an open mic'er,

or I just would listen to random sets, it's still, Chris Rock, no matter how I feel about them as people, there's still a part of me that's like, I remember how important Bigger and Blacker was to me. Of course. And I think like, a lot of times, there's this false coolness that people try to portray.

Like, there's a false apathy that's misleading. I. Oh, yeah, and I don't think it's useful I would say like if you're working with someone before then it if you're in a mode where you're gonna do work together Yeah, do the work. Yeah, you can you can express enthusiasm but then you got to shift gears and then you got to be a professional dude, then you got to shut it down because they don't it doesn't serve the Endeavor sure to be caught up in that. But to have a moment of it, and sometimes it's too much,

like I don't wanna, we've already, too many names have come up already, and I don't wanna sit here just like saying famous names of people, but you asked me this question which leads to it. But I was at a dinner with like, really one of the three people who's meant the most to me as an artist in my entire life,

just this important and big a musical person. And about an hour into the dinner, I realized I had to leave. No way to preserve that. I know, because I didn't want to become Chris Farley. Yeah, that's what we are in. Ah, that was awesome. I just was like, I got, I survived it. I let the person know we talked about a bunch of shit, questions came up, people were going back and forth. You don't want to have fan diarrhea.

But I saw that I was about to mention the 27 concerts and like the set lists. And I just went, this was a great time. I need to go to the restroom. I have to go home. And I just like stood up and shook hands. You want to go outside and fan pee out of your butt. And I called the guy who took me to the dinner. It was four people that did the dinner. The guy who took me to the dinner who knew this rockstar guy well I called him and I go, I texted him I think and I was like I had to leave. He

goes yeah I was watching a countdown in my own head. And I go, really? He goes, yeah, you got out of there just in time. And it was like, great. Because I think when you're around someone that means that much to you, you're smiling and you're acting different. It's almost like a crush, but in a non-romantic way where you're like, I can't believe your life delivered you to that spot because that when you're young, 15 year old couldn't have conceived of it. So when you're young and I am on the road, always, danSoder.com will let you know where

I'm going. But coming up San Jose Improv. I will be there August 9th and 10th for four shows. And then Buffalo Helium. I'm coming back August 22nd through the 24th at Helium and Buffalo, and then Charlotte Comedy Zone August 29th through the 31st. Get those tickets now. And New York Comedy Festival, November 8th, 945. I will be at Town Hall,

one of the coolest theaters in New York City. I'm very excited to play it. Tickets are on sale now. Get them before they sell out. November 8th, 9 945 Town Hall. I Just fought a Burt back. You just watched me do that. That's strength guys Let's take a quick break and talk about mint mobile mint mobile offering premium wireless for $15 a month When you purchase a three-month plan

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with promo code Soder. After your purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know that we sent you. Get rid of those khakis, get the perfect gene. I think one of the coolest things is when we met and we started hanging out, you never led with it, you never put importance on it, but you would casually bring up the fact

that you were A&R for Motley Crue and then Metallica during the Black album. You were on the road with. No, I'm sorry, I was on the, I didn't sign either of those bands, but I got to be around them and I was, as a record company representative. You were at Electra, right?

I was at Electra, it was Dr. Feelgood album, I got to go to the studio for a day of that and I was the signed A&R our person Tom Zutat signed them But he left sure label and then it was when Metallica had just finished and justice for all and we went on that was the tour and I was assigned that because I was a metal fan as a kid and I Lars had called from Germany and Asked me to go do an edit for the one video that you know that how that how the song edit fades out on the guitar solo yeah and

the Johnny get your gun I know that it's the best Metallica video fade out happens on the guitar solo and Lars was worried that it was very untraditional the time like well because it's a not come back yet so so he wanted it to be pure done in a very specific way. So he calls me and he's like, well, you go to the mastering place and do that. This is like my third day on the job and I'm barely 22 and I barely knew how to do it. Maybe I was 23, but like right there, like 22 or 23 years old. And they are at the time, the biggest rock band in the world.

They're on their way to be the biggest in the world. Well, Injustice for All and I think it went Injustice for All then the Black Album. Black Album is when it really but they were selling out I mean all the stadiums not a stadiums arenas it was for you it was arenas you know stadiums for a festival show but it was arenas sure and then when I I helped I went to the thing and so did the exact edit that he wanted and what's the phone call so Lars calls. I get a call from someone who's like Lars Alwerck

is in Germany. He has a thing he wants you to do. Can we set up a time that he can call you? Because it's in cell phones. He's calling an office phone at Electra Records from his hotel room in Germany, where he's on the road, I guess. So he calls.

The manager might have been in the office with me. And then Lars asks me to do this very specific thing. He's like at this. I want the fade to start here, I want it to end here. But I'm worried that people are going to try to make it more professional. And I don't want it to be more professional. I want this to be the edit. Can you go do that? And I said, if that's what you want, of course, and I went to and everyone was super cool. I went to the mastering place, got the tapes, we got the tapes up or whatever, we did

the edit, they did it, I just made sure it was what he wanted. We sent it back. And then he calls me again. And he's like, you did that. Right. Our tour starts in America in Columbus. I want to reward you. Do you want to come to opening night of the tour and hang out? And so, of course I did. I mean, in your mind, are you, you're just like. I mean, I'm in it.

I'm trying to, well, you know, when you're very young, you're actually trying to be super professional. You push it down more than we would now later in life. You try because now I have to try to be the record company person. Sure. So I'm like, yes, of course. And I wore, I remember I wore to be the record company person. Sure. So I'm like, yes, of course. And I wore, I remember I wore jeans and I wore a tie.

Like, you know, the total douche. Was there any moment when you're putting on a tie to go to a Metallica song, a Metallica concert that you were like? No, no. I'm like, I'm a record company guy. I got the tie. No, but here's what happened. So I go to the show.

It's mind bogglingly great. You know, they come, I get the backstage pass, I go to meet the band and then they kind of gather around me and Lars is like, this kid did good for us. Um, let's really welcome him Metallica style. And James, who doesn't, I get it's very hard to talk to James Hatfield. He's, you know, just the ultimate rocks. I remember he meant so much to me. And, um, he goes, yeah. You know just yeah the ultimate rocks. I'm he meant so much to me and

He goes yeah But James come and I was you know, I don't I was never a big drinker. Yeah, and James is like Holds out a bottle of Jaeger. I mean, this is alcoholica by the way He holds a bottle of they were called back then out guys would do Riptop buds and Jaeger meister and they say say, James, James is like, here it is, bud. This has to be finished by the end of the night. Is it when you want to be hanging out with us? Like the big fucking, yeah. He's giving you a fifth.

Yeah, the big thing, Jaeger. As someone that drank one of those with my friend Byron in high school, it took two of us. That is a, that's a hero's journey. It was a real hero. So I What did you I mean? I got to college with basically able to go to whatever parties and smoke half a joint never fucking drink So you are you and here's just the fact of drinking as a former drinker. You hadn't done the road work

Oh, man, you had in do you don't have the you're not in shape The great you're trying to run a marathon without getting off the couch for all of the shit that those guys were able to do the shocking thing that happened I've been grateful to this person forever for it is So I take a big swig of Jaeger coffee. It's just black licorice was it they start laughing It wasn't it wasn't room temp, but it did not come straight from the freezer. You know what I mean? That is brutal. But then Newstead, Jason Newstead puts his arms, his arm around my shoulder and he's like, come on, buddy, let's drink up. And then he grabbed it and he poured half out. He's like,

I'm going to be a bro to you. Cause I could tell. Because that's. Cause he had obviously gone through all the hazing. Yeah. He was after Cliff. Yeah. After Cliff passed away, he just, for whatever reason, Newstead looked in my eyes and he's like, I'm gonna make it easy for this kid. So I drank half a bottle of Jager. Let me tell you right now, Jason Newstead, you're a fucking angel. As someone that has drank and a half a bottle of it

and got so black out, I threw all over my friend's room. I remember getting back to my hotel room and calling, you know, Levine was my partner and all the other things I do creatively. Sure, lifelong best friend. Lifelong best friend. I remember getting back to the hotel, because I wasn't married then. It was like, you know, I remember getting back to my hotel room and calling, you know, Levine was my partner, and called everything I do creatively, lifelong best friend. I remember getting back to the hotel, because I wasn't married then, it was like, you know, I remember I called Dave

from the hotel room, and the hotel room was spinning, and telling him that story. He's like, wait a second, you gotta bottle the Yeager. And he knows you. Yeah, yeah, of course he knows I don't, he's like, you didn't drink that. I was like, no, but Newstead. But it was the greatest thing,

and then like because of that, and because I was young, I ended up being able to, whenever I wanted on that tour, go and hang out with them and they were super cool to me. And you're also seeing an artist at that moment rising to their apex. You're watching them, everything's clicking, they're doing the like, listen, at the time,

and you knew this hair metal was giant, hair metal was still big, but they were the new were the I got to be like the kid in almost famous Yeah, I got to just be like watching it and around it and the coolest thing part of it was I would get to go I mean, I never talked about the Metallica so I get to go Anytime I would come out on the road then But like the third time they then trusted me enough to give me this really special laminate that only the crew guys had, um, like the, and, and, um, so I could go walk around the arena.

So I would go early, um, when they were doing their soundcheck and sometimes it would literally just be the lighting guy, the sound guy, Metallica and me in the whole arena. And I would watch their soundcheck. Did you get to see them, because this is before the Black album, and a lot of the times artists are trying stuff that they're gonna do on an album, maybe on the-

I didn't hear those songs, but I did, they would just play all sorts of stuff, whatever they were in the mood to play. Well, they're also big fans of covers. They did the Garage Ink, which was all those. They would play Seek and Destroy though, most days. At the concert, they would play Seek and Destroy every night. But they would play Seek and Destroy a lot

at the sound checks back then. And then, I mean, some stuff. So, but I didn't, listen, I wasn't friends, I want to be really, like I wasn't friends with them. You know, I was still the record company guy. They knew I was okay. There were nights where I would, Lars used to like to stay at the arena all night long,

and there were nights when everybody on the thing would kind of take turns being a responsible person who maybe would go check on him and hang out overnight. Make sure he's all right. And so I did that and stuff like that. And I was- You know what you were? You worked for the record label. You were the cop on the take that the mafia could tell.

You could go by the illegal poker game and go like Swinging your bat and going boys you better wrap it up. There's gonna be a bus coming correct I wasn't there to arrest anybody. Yeah, you weren't a made man, but you kind of were I wasn't exactly But I wasn't their friend but so but but I but I you know got to they treated me incredibly well Yeah, and they were cool to me. And so, you know, years later. Season one of billions. You know, and I'd stayed friends with the managers, Cliff and Peter, and years later we were making the show

and we asked them to come on. You know, the special laminate that they gave me, I've kept it, and I've had it all these years. I've had it 30 years. I mean, how would you let go of that? I'm 57, I was 22, I've had it the whole time, 55 years. And so. I'm sure there's a box where you open it and light comes out.

Yeah, right. That has to be that kind of thing. So in our kitchen we have a bunch of this stuff. It's like Marcella's the suitcase. It's there, and Amy, I remember going to, we shot that stuff up in Canada, and Amy gave me these passes that I had from the Metallica tours that one.

And I knew Lars knew the story, but I also knew James definitely didn't know why he was coming to do the show. James didn't know. Yeah was coming to do the show. James didn't know that I was, it didn't, he's a million guys were record company guys. You know, it was much, it was much more important to me than to them. Yeah. I'm just for me, they've had a million dudes come through. Well, to them, they're like, first off, the show wasn't even out yet. No one even knew what the show was.

It was this Paul Giamatti, Damien Lewis show that was coming out. That's right. Nobody knew. So they're just kind of like, what are we doing? We're going to make a lot. They're willing to do it because their guys kind of vouched. By season three, you got people to go, oh, I watched season one and two, I'll come, or season five when Becky came. You know, all that stuff. But at that time, but when I walked in and so the, that laminate, what it was, was in, in, you know, the Alman Justice for All had like Lady Liberty with her head cut off. Oh, fuck it. With the scales. So the special laminate, what it was, was in the Alman Justice for All had Lady Liberty with her head cut off. Oh, fuck yeah, with the scales. I remember that. So the special laminate was the scales of justice, but your head was on it.

So the thing has my picture from when I was 22 years old. Just like a 22 year old, you're like, hey. Yeah, with long hair on the thing. Yeah, 80s out, hair spray. And when I showed that to Hetfield on my set of our show, he was like, when I don't understand, I was like, I was this dude, A&R guy, and you guys, and he's like, nobody got those laminates. And I was like, yeah, I was like,

well, you guys gave it to me. He's like, oh, you must've been cool or something. And then, big smile, and that's not a guy, I think he has a smile allowance. I think I smile twice a day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And once when he sees one of his kids, he's not a big smiler. And so he smiled big, and it's like, someone take a picture with it. And so we got this great picture with the laminate and Hadfield and that, me as an adult. I mean, is there a moment in that, and we're kinda talking about,

the three line is like, still being a kid, still being a fan, still having these moments of like, there's still moments that I take that in at the cellar where I'm like, dude, I'm working at the fucking cellar. At that moment, are you like, there's still moments that I take that in at the cellar where I'm like, dude, I'm working at the fucking cellar. At that moment, are you like, what a crazy full circle moment. That moment, yes. That moment was, then you have to go into the mode of getting the thing shot. But there's a professional. So yes, that was unreal. Did you give yourself that moment of like?

I've learned to give that moment to ourselves. Yeah. I took them off course. First of all, like I said to you, you started this by asking me which things are like that. James Hetfield's like that to me and I want him always to have that spot in my life as like this figure who... I mean, a Metallica album comes out and to this day, that's a clear the decks for me in the car or take a walk and that's when I'm just listening to the whole Metallica album. There's not that a walk and that's when I'm just listening to the whole Metallica album Absolutely, there's not that many bands where that's the case But you know my favorite and you always want to have a favorite and that that is the case with them

Look, it's always the things that happen before right since you and I are in in in in entertainment It's different with things that happen now you have a different relationship with it But the stuff that mattered to you when you were that age it still Is in a certain spot, but then you got to shift gears dude, and you got to become a professional You're like we also have to make sure that the scene gets done I mean you can be wide-eyed and happy that you're at the cellar, but you better make them laugh I gotta have a good set. I gotta get a new joke. I was like the first

Or second person you called when you passed. Yeah seller 2011. I was I got real drunk Call me in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, and I was like, yeah, dude. I got real drunk. You called me in the morning. Yeah, and I was like, yeah dude, I got through because. Oh, you called me on that day, I was walking through Central Park, and you called me to tell me that you were, tonight was the night, you thought. Yeah, because Bobby Kelly, Bobby Kelly got me an audition,

because I was opening for Bobby, and we'd go on the road, and he'd be like, I told Esty about you. And I was raised by a father that made false promises. So I was always like, sure buddy. And then I looked at the schedule and Bobby was there all night. And I walked in and I sat down at the table

with Bobby and Keith. I'll never forget Keith going, oh, god damn it Bobby, your friend's so nervous, he's bugging me. And I was just sitting there like And then esty sat down and was like Bobby says you're funny, and I was oh, uh I guess and she was like great I will see you on the late show tonight after Kyle grooms and I went down the street big Jay was doing sets And I was I I had a shot in a beer and big Jay was like just go do go do your do your. God, and in that moment, you could never know that one day you were going to crush his spirit by breaking up with him and leaving the show.

Oh stop. We're friends. You could never have known in that moment that you were just going to destroy this beautiful thing that you built together. Stop it. Eight years and they're still going fine. You could never have known. And we would have never had this.

Uh, yeah, it's, I think there is like, that is a weird thing when I did leave The Bonfire of thinking like how much I used to follow around Jay to watch him do sets at Stand Up New York, the comic strip, to then go to be good friends with him, to then going to be co-hosts with him for eight years of his show. I never thought, do you remember when I got hired at K-Rock and I told you, I was like,

there's- You're like the guy, the young rookie cop who goes and partners with the grizzled vet, learn everything from him and then kill him by sticking a stake right in his heart. Just destroying him by sticking a stake right into his heart and then deciding you're the only cop that there ever was. And now I'm on the take.

Now I, it was, um, I think it's fine. I think it was, I think it was, it still blew my mind to look back and go like, oh, I had to show it serious. Cause I used to listen to Howard, I used to listen to Opie and Anthony. No, of course, amazing. It was like unbelievable. And that's why it was so much harder to be like,

and you know this, when something's done, it's done. When you feel done. You were ready to do that for two years, Dan. Well, it just started to become a thing where it was like, I think I wanna go do other stuff. And that is, and I have an opportunity to write a show, which I've talked to you about wanting to do for a long time.

And so then, next thing I know, I'm on a phone call with Stone Cold Steve Austin, and he's going, yeah, I think we can do that. You just got a call from, my phone rings and it says Steve Austin, and I have to push that fandom down. But yeah, but also in all seriousness, man, like what? Yeah, it's fun to sort of give you shit about that you went to J to get you ready to go do the seller and then, you know, give you shit about what would happen. But you have to, fuck soda, but what you have to do, I mean every, listen as a wrestler you have to do a heel turn no matter what. I had Marty Janetti I had to kick him through the barber shop window. I didn't want to but I had to. Now

I got the crucifix earring and I got the mirror behind me. I'm just a sexy boy. But what you have to do man. Man they didn't want to let me turn heel. Never let me turn a heel. Well, dude, they're brother. They wouldn't let me turn a heel. The classic line that I've been watching is, uh, uh, when they talk about Hogan joining the NWO and they call him and he goes, doesn't work for me, brother. I love that. I love that for me, brother. But yeah, I mean it is like, um, it's a, it's a part of like just life.

You go through these things where I'm assuming you never thought when you were an A&R guy for Electra and you're on and there's a party that's scared to go to the show in Columbus. Cause you're like, Oh fuck, I'm gonna go. I'm going to a fucking Metallica show. That you would have never thought. Oh, when I'm in my fifties, these guys are gonna be on my show in Montreal

before one of their. No, no, all of it was, no, we shot at the show, you know, like, so we did rehearsal. Which by the way, Jay's in that episode. No, right. And then we shot the... He's the drug dealer. Yeah, and then we shot the scene with them.

And I mean, no, you never think that stuff. It would never have even, no part of it that I could have even imagined. I mean, like, you know, Dan, when, I don't know, you know, when you and I met your first day in New York City, literally was that it was the second night I was in New York City. It was at an open mic at stand up New York on the Upper West Side. Right. And when I thought you were a

construction worker, I thought you were just a dude, you were wearing a giant hoodie. And you were like, man, you had a beard because you were the writer strike a different beard than I had a bigger beard. You had like a fucking beard. No, I know. But I think there's no way, like I remember shaking your hand that night, but there's no way that either of us could have known

that from that moment in what, 2007? It was January 7th, 2007 was when I think about it. First of all, that we were going to have this big brother, little brother kind of relationship and really become good friends. And then how many people do you meet? And then 15 years later or whatever, you're still close friends.

And then you were going to come. I have a memory of you of going to your guys' old office above the cribbage place Yeah, the cribbage club. Yeah going to the top where you had old school wrestling posters all over the place So I'm immediately looking around going like oh shit. Oh shit. That's like Like nerd out but then I remember I would go and hang with you and David and talk to you Oh, yeah When you guys were talking to Scorsese, when all that stuff was going on,

we sat and talked, and I would just go and hang out with you. And it was like this kind of cool thing where I was a dead broke waiter, doing bar shows in some spots around the city, and then I'd come talk to you, and then I remember I did Montreal, and you were the first person in my life

that I was telling you how well Montreal, just for laughs, went. Yes. And you went, p went, you got it. All you gotta do is quit drinking. And you said it not in a judgmental way, in a way, and you explained it to me, because I remember exactly what I said to you.

I go, no, it's cool, I'm just drinking beers now. And you went, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. You said, but here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna get drunk and you're gonna say something to somebody that they don't understand it's a joke and they're gonna hate or be mad at you and it's gonna change the trajectory of your career. And just that example alone gave me anxiety

where I was like, fuck, I definitely would because I'd get drunk and I'd be a loud mouth. Yes, I'm glad that I helped. I'm glad that I helped. And it was like one of those first things in your life where someone goes like hey you know if your friends overweight and they're eating like a giant sandwich you go you should be in that and you don't want to say like hey you're a fat ass stop stuffing your face but you go like is it good that you're having a cheese stick at nine in the morning? Yeah, maybe one pizza's enough.

Yeah, one pizza's enough. It's just like a subtle push that a friend does that if you're smart and you listen to the omens around you. Well, I looked at you and as you know, man, I thought you were so incredibly talented, but beyond that, the hardest worker I'd ever seen at trying to do this. And, you know, I always use you as an example.

I've talked about it a million times publicly, but it makes it no less true. You were so fucking determined. And I looked at it and I was like, Soder is gonna, it's all gonna happen for him. I didn't say that to you casually. I mean, I thought about it before I said it, because I'd seen you a couple nights and it was a problem. I could just feel it.

I could just feel that it was a problem. And... Well, I also have it in my family. Like my family, my father's family was decimated by addiction. I'd heard the stories and I was just like, there's this point, you know, I was probably close to your age now

and there was just a point where you're in your 40s, me at the time, and you're looking around and you're like I actually might have, I might have some knowledge from like the road miles I've put in, where I can look at a situation and I might actually be able to see some of the pitfalls, some of the ways he might twist his ankle and if I don't say it I'm just letting him go hurt himself and I might say something, and I know you know you know if you're gonna do that it's possible the person doesn't talk to you for two years and we've all had that thing happen to you're also what you're doing is you've lived you've gone down

the road and you're just basically giving someone a like hey heads up there's no gas at that station it's also a way I think it's also a way to say to somebody just so you know somebody cares about you Yeah, you know for real like it is a way to go just like which is you at the moment Yeah, I'll say it was massive because it's you know You're from New York and a lot of my friends are from New York or they're from the tri-state area or Philadelphia very close similar feel a giant East Coast city But when you move to a city like this from, I was coming from Tucson by way of Denver, you just kind of come here and it's so

much that you're kind of just like head down trying to punch your way through. And so for someone to go like, Hey, watch out, like, don't go that way. And you go like, Oh, shit, that's very beneficial. Yeah, you just I was just a thing where but it was because and look your example as you know My daughter Anna is a stand-up and you know, she's doing 30 sets a week. I mean, she's got her own shows She's going she's killing it and she that example of you Uh is so huge in our Uh, I mean she doesn't live at home anymore, but it's so she's 24. So it's good Yeah, but but that was the age I was when you're right that advice of

You working hard and keeping your shit together and writing, you know all the things you were doing sure were so great You had this there was this one thing that could be a hold back and I Really believed that this guy was the limit for you and that you would be the guy with an HBO special and I just wanted you to have that. Yeah. And you know, it's funny when you say that story of people making promises, you don't know if you trust them. I was part of it was when Dave and I said to you,

hey, here's your choice, you could have a one line part in the pilot or if the pilot doesn't, you know, if the pilot goes, if you don't take the one line part, because that's gonna end, we'll write you a part on the show and you thought about it and you knew we were telling you the truth and you were like,

I'll wait. Well I remember laughing and I go, what you think a show with Paul Giamatti, Maggie Siff, and Damien Lewis isn't gonna go? I was like, I'll wait, I'll hold. Yeah, you were like, I'll wait and you trust and you knew that we'd write you something and we meant it.

And then by the way, episode three, I get the call, you're like, hey there's a scene where the SEC fake raids, Axe Capital, we want you to be one of the guys. And then it was literally my part was, and you did this a great job throughout the seasons of Billions. You would put comics in positions to make the other actors look more like people

because you were like, like, Birbiglia, Alan Havy, Sam Morrill. You gave us an opportunity to be like, hey, you feel more like a person in this because there's, listen, there was world-class actors on that show, but comics bring this little bit of like, locker room, ball-busty energy to the set. Yeah, I mean, a lot of that isn't even like,

Yeah, what I was gonna say, Kevin Pollock, there were just like people that you could fuck around with. Well, we love, you know, Dave and I both love comed comedians and also but part of that is like you and Havy we wrote I mean Havy's had done Havy's a serious actor, you know, I'm friends with Havy since I was 17. Hey you rules I met Havy at 19 right when I was 19 We wrote those parts like Maffey was written for you. Yeah Havy's part was written for that was Carl was written for Havy, right? That was, that was very allured.

That they were written for these people to come in and be able to score. You're the only person ever on the show, um, who you and Ava, because Ava's a writer and Ava is similar where we wrote that part for Ava, even though we didn't, unlike you guys, we didn't, we didn't know her, which met her once. We loved her work. Ava Victor genius She's so fun. She's so fun to be on set We were the only people who we ever would say if you have a fun

You're a line in that spot You only only a couple times but yeah you which you know, we're happy to have you do it Oh, and we were happy to have Ava do there was a couple times. Yeah It was like one of the boardroom scenes at Axe Capital You're like let it fly and I was like, oh really I just talk shit and it was like I was trying to break Kelly and Daniel who were we're in the scene together and it was so fun there was a scene the episode where Mike Binder directed you were like hey just talk shit just talk shit to dollar bill and I was like oh this is so much fun well it was just so

great to have you yeah show and and to see you be prepared because the part of why we trusted you to do that was you were totally prepared when you Well, I remember the one time I wasn't and I I've told this story to Damien multiple times It was a season one finale. There was a scene that was cut It was ultimately cut but it was I was gonna hardball Axe for a bonus and it was a numbers thing. I had to come in and like spout numbers at it. And I think I had been doing a bunch of shows,

I think I was on the road, and I knew it, but I didn't really know it. And I came in and I fucked up twice or three times. And there was the moment where I flubbed a line. All right, can we do that again? Flubbed a line, do it, can we do that again? Flub the line do it again and on the third take Damien looks at Kosti and goes like a like that and I felt this Pit of my stomach. They're so prepared. They're the best. They're so ready to go. They have so much work It's so hard for them. It would they had they had binders

Yeah, man And I'm dreams of stuff to do I came in and fucked that up and I felt this it was at the old one up in orange and I was like I'm never showing up here without knowing it front to back just because and by the way he wasn't mean a dick they were just doing this like you know what it was you know exactly what it reminded me of the scene in cable guy where Ben Stiller says the Jeanine Garofalo he goes or not been still or Matthew Broderick says can I get a fork and she goes There were no utensils in medieval times hence There are no utensils at medieval times he goes, but there was pepsi's and she goes dude I got a lot of tables that was exactly how it felt. That's like it was like dude I got a lot of scene what that's like is when you used to do this thing, when you and your friend Joe, he's this thing. Yeah, Joe, when Joseph bow, shout out Joe Alexander, when stage name, when you're,

what a talented, great guy. When that guy is, he's unbelievable. Amazing dude. Are we still texting? Yeah. What a great guy. When I haven't seen him in a long time, but just a great guy. And every time I see something good

happening in his life on social media, I'm so happy. Oh yeah. He's a good dad and he seems like a really involved. By the way, still one of the funniest human beings I've ever met in my life. But what I remember is, if I was on stage and trying to do stand up and like, I was, Dan had started way before me

and it took me a while to, like I was, it's everyone in the beginning, sometimes you have stuff that's good, sometimes you have stuff that sucks. You know, it's writing. But what you did, and then we all started doing it, when one of us would do a hack joke, you guys would just go, huh.

That's Joe. But it was the two of you together. But Joe and I would do it at each other. It was the two of you together. You go, huh. Yeah, like someone would have a bad day. And if you were on stage, and you heard you guys go, it would be like, oh, I got out of that. So you got to cross that one out. Or when something would

absolutely bomb at Stand Up New York and I just hear Joe go, oh, he'd be like, fuck dude. Because you knew similarly. But you see, that was so mean in the best way. That was great. Cause I remember one time, not Joe, but Michael Che. I was doing a show, we were doing a show in the Lower East Side and it was like hot rich people. And I went up there and just fucking ate it. Zero, I mean, 0.0. And then I just hear Che laughing away that reminded me of those moments where I was like he's enjoying this so much because I am just

absolutely eating there's nothing like the bad thing that happens when you do and you're so like in and yet yeah of that group of people like only you and Matt Ruby still do stand-up comedy really aggressively like do it in a big way consistently you know I've been lucky I was lucky that I ended up you still do stand-up comedy really aggressively, like do it in a big way. Consistently. Yeah. You know, I've been lucky. I was lucky that I ended up, you know, I came out of that right in a movie that was funny and lived, uh, it all worked out great in its own way. Um, but still, when you really went through the,

when you go through that thing with a group of people for a year, the, you are connected to those people, like watching each other bomb. Yeah. Being in a bar show together and watching you. I remember specifically at Bar None, I had no money and I bought a beer and you were having a beer. You like did the thing where you're like, you know what, I'm gonna have a beer.

And I went like this, you wanna buy me a shot? And you just looked at me like, dude. And I was like, but for real, can I get a shot? And you bought me like a double Jameson and I was like, ha. I was just like, ha. I love it. I love it. Well, yeah, can I get a shot? And you bought me like a double Jameson. And I was like, ha. I was just like, ha. You love it. Well, yeah, I can remember a couple of those balls.

Well, Joe and I went when you got, because you wrote, you and David wrote the screenplay for Ocean's 13. And the night it opened, we went with you and watched. We went at midnight to watch the first screening. We went at midnight with Elvis. Elvis Mitchell. Elvis Mitchell.

Yeah, it was awesome. And Joe and I left. And we were both like, that was crazy. That was crazy. Cause we were watching, we had never ever watched a movie with a guy that wrote it. Well that was, yeah, I think cause it all,

that's the thing we were, I guess part of what the bonding thing is back then, I was just showing up to try to like, um, figure something out about what it was to get up on stage and try to do that thing. Sure. And I was really intentionally not coming in there trying to be different from anybody or in any, I was just trying to do the thing. Like by a certain point, some people knew, and sometimes people would

introduce me as someone who'd written rounders or something like that with Dave but mostly we were hanging out and you know I didn't live in some fancy place or when we would go to a concert together so I think I remember it was after that you kind of had put together oh wait he like I think we're right didn't I leave to go to oceans you were like what no you would you had done I thought I left to go and you went like I'm going to this is when I thought you were just like a, I just thought you were like a dude. And you were like, well you are a dude.

Try and have it, we're all just dudes. We're all just dudes. But I didn't know you were in the entertainment industry specifically, specifically a screenwriter. I didn't know you were a screenwriter. And you went, yeah, I gotta go to LA for work. And I went, what are you going to LA for work for? I think I was like smoking a cigarette outside.

And you go, I got a, we have a premiere. And I go, what do you mean you have a premiere and you go? Well me and my writing partner wrote oceans 13 I wrote your emotions 13 and you were like, yeah, and I was like no fucking shit And I was like, oh that was when I was like, oh damn and you go, you know, I wrote the movie rounders That's so yeah And we'd known each other a while by a couple months Yeah that boy and then that was when that was when Ocean's 13 came out.

Yeah, soon thereafter. And then it was really cool. What's been really cool for me is I remember going, you called me, I was at Dos Caminos, I was working a lunch shift. I came to Dos Caminos a couple times. You and David came and said my favorite line of all time, you go, you are the worst waiter I've ever seen in my life.

You sucked. I sucked as a waiter.'ve ever seen in my life. You suck. I sucked as a waiter. And you called me, I was still at Dose and I still had like a flip phone. And I picked up my phone in the hutch and you go, hey dude, listen, Amy's sick and I have two tickets. Do you wanna go see the white stripes at Madison Square Garden?

And I was like, fuck yeah. And I left Dose, cause I was off my shift, went and had a beer with the girl I was dating and then we went to, but the whole reason is Sam was 11. And Sam, and I watched the concert and here I am like 22, 23 and Sam is 11 and I remember the girl I was dating at the time was asking him like, like, like he was a baby. She was like, do you ride? She's like, I'm from New York. Do you ride the subway? And he was dating at the time was asking him like, like, like he was a baby.

She was like, do you ride? She's like, I'm from New York. Do you ride the subway? And he was looking at her like, yeah, lady, I ride the subway. That's whatever I ride. You know, he's like, yeah, I live on the Upper West. I ride the one, two, three. I know.

You know, he was like saying all this stuff. And then to watch him on, I watched him on MSNBC the other. And I'm like, Sam's on MSNBC. Oh, it's crazy. Flipping through. And I'm like, it's all crazy. It's kind of cool. Those moments. But you know, it's also like. It's kind of cool those moments, but.

You know, it's also like what's so great about knowing someone for such a long time. I'll say, like, and I'm so happy, you know, seeing Katie here, just the whole thing and how your life is going and everything you've accomplished, dude. It's like we know each other long enough that, yeah, you saw the high of Ocean 13, but you also saw Dave and me at low points, movies that bombed.

Oh, dude, I got fired Yeah, like moments when my career was shit and I saw I remember a moment I've seen you, you know especially as someone that tries to write new shit and tries all this different stuff you when you see someone else go through the failure of you doing something and not liking it and being like that fucking like behind closed doors being like I could have done that So much better and you're like, oh, I feel that way. It helps. Cause you go like, Oh, everyone goes through that. No one's a hundred percent. No. And seeing that stuff, like seeing the low points. And I think both of us have always shared that

stuff. You know, like we don't talk every day, but we communicate all we've never not been in touch since 2007. Absolutely. It's never not been in touch since 2007 or whatever. Yeah, absolutely, it's been consistent. Never not been in touch with each other, never not knowing what's going on in each other's lives. Might be a couple weeks, might be a couple months, but then there's a phone call or a text or, and it could be something as small as the Nix Brunson's III bouncing in, you know? 100%.

And there's something about the people that you go through that stuff with, which is why it was also so important to David and me to have you be really a part of Billions because whenever you would show up, whenever Havy would show up, whenever Ben Schenck, the people who, it's a great thing about having a long running thing like that

and I'm so glad it ended when it did and we're so happy with everything about it. And I'm not happy I announced that it was ending when it did, I still regret. Ruining that sucked. But you know, man, because it does, it is this great thing about the China live these lives by our wits in the world of entertainment. It's like so hard.

And there are so many times when it crumbles and most people only interact with you at a time kind of, cause you're only facing the public when something's gone, but the people who, you know, yeah, you talk about that office we were in, you know, it was kind of, it was alright. It was like nothing fancy. No, you had to ride like a service elevator up to the top and then take two staircases. And there were times during that whole run when like, you know, Amy and I almost had to leave our apartment and couldn't afford all that stuff and but then there are these people, you know, throughout it, who you can just talk to about that stuff, or you can listen and that for me, it was like

having gone through just slightly ahead of you, I could look at the show business ups and downs for you know, because of your work ethic, which is luck for all of us, you have to be lucky. But your work ethic dude has always been just incredible and has been on it's why when you said you were leaving the bonfire, you told me I wasn't worried for you. Shit, well, that makes one of us.

I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah, I mean, I, listen, I was worried that you betrayed your best friend. I mean, come on. Crushed him. I mean, come on. That for me was, I worry so about your soul. He gotta sit, please.

I worried about your- He's got a sick raise. I worried about your- He's got a good contract. I was worried about your soul for sure. Putting Bobby, your other friend, in the impossible position of having to fill your shoes and just look like a dick. You're my other best friend. He has stepped ahead. Like, make him have to step into the family that he didn't raise.

Everything you relive, all your pathology. That, I was worried about your soul for sure. Me too. But I wasn't worried at all about your career because I know That you're someone who is unrelenting about being great and the truth is all the sort of Ways you want to talk around why you had to change leave and change your life You made a decision at a certain point along the way that you want to be the greatest stand-up comedian

You can possibly be the thing that you hold as your north star to go back to where you started asking what matters Yeah, the wrestling stuff matters to you sure But you remember every joke that ever mattered to you the most oh my god I mean, you know if you could walk in a room and see Robin Williams you would pass out It was one of the moments one of the greatest moments of my life was I went by the cellar on a Sunday 49ers were dog shit. This was like 2014. 49ers were horrible. It was after the hardball years. And I went, I was, I went into the cellar and I sat down and it was Jim Norton and Robin Williams.

And I was talking to Lenny Marcus and Lenny Marcus goes, how'd your Niners do? And I go, Oh, 49ers beat the Rams. And Robin Williams was looking at his phone. He looked up and he went,ers one and again Bay Area guy I went and I got to tell Robin Williams how they beat the Rams and he was like, oh, that's great And I was like dude that it was an all-time I think where I had to walk away before I die or get out my family and I walked away going like that was awesome Yeah, that idea I got to shake his hand once because I couldn't fathom it.

So there's the thing. You are determined that no matter what else, you're building a life, Katie, that's incredibly important. You're growing as a human being, matters tremendously. Right after that though, the thing that matters the most to you is becoming the absolute best stand-up comedian that you can become. And you wanna be that good.

And you made a determination to be that good required basically cutting out a lot of the other stuff. And I think part of the thing that is like great, Dan, is that what competed for that when you were young, and we talked about this a little bit on my podcast once, but what competed was you were so worried about financial security. Sure.

And you were so determined to squirrely money, but like, so making a decision that could short term affect that for your art, to use a big obnoxious word like art, that is huge growth on your part. Yeah, I mean it was. Right? It's huge growth.

It just was a, it was a number one, a very fun thing and a very consistent thing. And it was just a thing where I was like, yeah, but I felt like I needed to go away in order to become better because I didn't think I was where I wanted to be. And it just, it had nothing to do with anybody else except how I felt. And now you throw a special up because I didn't think I was where I wanted to be. And it just, it had nothing to do with anybody else

except how I felt. And now you throw a special up that you by yourself don't think is your very, I think it's hilarious. And you know it's funny as shit, but to you, it's another stop along the road, it's being great, and a million people fucking watch it. And that is amazing. Yeah, and it's just, in fact, John and I

were talking about it before, because he helped film it. And I was like, yeah, it was good,, in fact, John and I were talking about it before because he helped film it. And I was like, yeah, it was good. But I definitely am like, I can do better. I can just go out and do better. But that's the fire, right? And that's why you had to, like, you know, if I would have told you in 2007, you'd have something that a million people watched

that wasn't on HBO. Oh yeah, it'd be nuts. It wasn't on Netflix. You put it up and a million. Katie was just saying this the other day because I was just beating the shit out of myself about it. A million people. She was like, dude, relax.

And that's what's great about having people in your life. I think what's really important for anybody in any field, I think just living on this earth, is you want to have people that know you. You want to have people that can go like, hey, you're picking scabs. Stop picking your scabs. Because a lot of the times times people don't want to do that because it's uncomfortable. That's what I said before It's like maybe you shouldn't have that second pizza. Well, you need some people in your life

We all have to keep those people in our lives who we can ask the question to but which you know What's what's crazy is it's avoiding insulation. It's avoiding. Yes around you. And then that's sometimes like I remember you were gonna I don't want to say what this is exactly because I don't want to get it caught up in something you were going to do something that I thought might be professionally risky once and we were talking and you were like I'm thinking about doing this thing and I go we're standing on you know we're standing on a street corner having like a two-hour conversation and I go are you sure I don't know because these are the risks and you go here's how how I'm gonna approach this and you laid out for me what you were gonna do

and I remember going, okay. And it was great because you weren't looking for me to be a yes man, I gave you the hesitation, you didn't just blindly listen to me, you were like, no, I can handle it but here's how I'm gonna handle it. Then you went and did it and exactly and it was amazing to me and I felt a, um, on Kung Fu, like you lifted

the thing and moved it out of the way because you kept to it. You went and did exactly verbatim what you told me you were going to do and pulled it off. I remember the thing you were saying. And I, and it was, you were basically like, what, what are you going to say to these people? And it was like, well, it's what I'm going to do. It's where I'm coming from. I'm going to put it in a way that it's not going to be these people? And it was like, well, it's what I'm gonna do. It's where I'm coming from. I'm gonna put it in a way that it's not gonna be a problem. And I will say, I remember, I walked away

and then waited and then that thing happened and I had a big smile on my face because it was like, okay, he's kind of prepared. You thought about something, you recognized, you didn't dismiss there's this potential risk. You were like, oh yeah there is. Here's how I'm thinking about solving it and then you went and did it. I think there's just a practical way, you know, I think a lot of the times now and we're gonna get to the

NBA cards, which I'm very pumped for you to do specifically, but I think there's a specific thing where people now expect to do stuff and expect results instead of thinking, well, how can this go wrong? And if it does go wrong, what is the fail safe? What is the backup plan? If I want it to go right, but if it goes wrong, well, then you better have a plan. You better have, you know, being friends with McDaniel, I talked to him all the time about play calling and he says, I spend 110 hours a week going through every situation to know if this goes this way, I can go this way. And if this goes this way, I can go that way. And you're like,

this is a guy I've known since I was 12. Thank you for coming on the podcast. I love you, Dan. I love you too, buddy. That was a lot of fun. That was great.