Soft Skills Engineering - Episode 507: I got fired unexpectedly and breadth and depth

Episode Date: April 6, 2026

In this episode, Dave and Jamison answer these questions: Hey there, I started a new job in August at a large European retailer. There were ups & downs, but long story short, my weekly one-on-ones with my manager was either positive or neutral. This was my second job after graduating, so the firm factored in, I’d like to think, when setting expectations this was my first time switching codebases and tech stacks. On January 3rd, I was fired in the last month of my 6 month probation. This was a total surprise. My tech lead told me I required too much assistance from others to finish my tasks. Some part of me doubted the sincerity of my boss, since I asked for example pull requests or tickets where this was the case and he was unable to provide a single example, but obviously, like every dev, technical insecurities are a big part of my life. I’ll be starting a new job at a prestigious newspaper in May, so here’s my question. In a remote first environment, how do I determine if I’m meeting expectations? How do I gauge my standing in my team? How do I avoid a repeat? How do I effectively integrate myself into a codebase? Disclaimer: At the end of January, everyone in my department was hauled into a meeting and was told the retailer hired 11 external, Portuguese developers to ‘finish the job’ since management wasn’t happy with the output of the 9 internal developers (aka nearshoring) and no internal would get a pay increase this year. My tech’s boss was also fired/forced out/quit before he could be fired. Trevor asks, How do I balance depth with breadth? At my current job, I am moved around projects/code bases all the time and I am exposed to a variety of technologies and subareas. That’s cool but I feel like I only manage to face the consequences of our choices for a couple months until I am moved again. I think I need more time to really become an expert in any one area. At the same time, I dread getting stuck in maintenance work. It seems like most people around me (at my company or outside) find it boring and soul-sucking, and are only excited about major projects from scratch. Does a job that has a good balance of both exist and if so, how do I find it?

it takes more than 100 gigabytes of ram to be a great engineer this is soft skills engineering episode 507 i'm your host dave smith i'm your host jameson dance soft skills engineering is a weekly advice podcast for software engineers who have handed over their entire life's work to robots that need about 100 gigabytes of ram yeah there's plenty of second order effects here I've never thought the supply chain would affect my day-to-day programming as much as it does now. Yeah. And I think it's appropriate that we talk about gigabytes on episode 507, which is the HTTP status code for insufficient storage. Ah, yes. Don't we all have that problem? Insufficient memory, I guess? A little different.

yeah i mean there's it's always been a thing that as hardware gets broadly better over whatever direction that means people use some of that to do cool things you couldn't do before and they also build more abstractions that make everything slower and sort of like the work expands to fill the time allocated for it like the the memory footprint of a program expands to be some fixed percentage of however many gigabytes is common at that point there's got to be some law like that right memory footprint of a web browser is always 20% of whatever

the median RAM size is that's so true no matter what it is so weird yeah that's not what this show is about Dave should I thank our patrons yes I was hoping you would alright it was my birthday oh and I on Monday we're recording this on Friday so I'm going to count this as a late

birthday present thank you to these folks who contribute at the level where we shout them out every single week thank you according to Interpol no really Brian Wolford is still in Germany Angel Wood no one knows my real name is Seth Angel I thought this was a really funny name

but you didn't laugh now I feel self-conscious how well would Will Angel gel if an angel would gel well okay yes please go to firetruckfaceoff.com on Thursday and vote for Coastside Fire Department

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language that is yeah the missing semicolon christy the world's okayest programmer will chuck norris can successfully dereference a null pointer of will angel wrote out in lead speak nick molyneux embedded engineers treat assembly the same way typescript engineers treat javascript javier gonzalez chewy wait a second how did you guys meet ted timbrel i ike chicken i ike ever but the difference between an uppercase i and a lowercase or uppercase l oh they got me an uppercase l and a lowercase i can you de-iver a single open paren william angelson dan from drone deploy never is not just a crater on mars flamingo emoji i like chicken i like liver meomics meomics please deliver swiss python summit the 22nd and 23rd october 2026 kyle boss

kenzie dodds this podcast was recorded live in front of a studio audience nice jenny kim the stochastic parrot how many angels can will angel will if will angel can will angels ira chan jonathan king deny a beautiful functional user documentation should angel vote now on your phones or computer at vote.williamangel.net dave's rap name would be the wordsmith adding inside jokes to your agents.md is a team building exercise i agree with that one braden canes john grant britney ellick guess who's back back again slash news back 27th of may i don't know what that means close parenthesis nice followed by a single closing parenthesis character i love that that one's at the very end of the list it does feel right if you really want to mess us up then

change your name to an opening parenthesis oh man that just means we open next week's show early at the end of the patreon list yeah also i am hiring one of your challenges is figure out where the job posting is i guess i don't know that's the first step in the application process i tweeted about it it's on our website uh go go find it and if you can find it apply if you're in the u.s and are looking for a job dave perfect do you want to read our first question yes this comes from an anonymous listener says hey there i started a new job in august at a large european retailer there were ups and downs but long story short my weekly one-on-ones with my manager was either positive or neutral there was my second job this was my second job after graduating so

the firm factored in i'd like to think when setting expectations this was my first time switching code bases and tech stacks on january 3rd i was fired in the last month of my six-month probation this was a total surprise my tech lead told me i required too much assistance from others to finish my tasks. Some part of me doubted the sincerity of my boss since I asked, for example, pull requests or tickets where this was the case, and he was unable to provide a single example. But obviously, like every dev, technical insecurities are a big part of my life. I'll be starting a new job at a prestigious newspaper in May. So here's my question. In a remote first environment, how do I determine if I'm meeting expectations? How do I gauge my standing

in my team? How do I avoid a repeat? How do I effectively integrate myself into a code base? disclaimer at the end of january everyone in my department was hauled into a meeting and was told the retailer hired 11 external portuguese developers to quote finish the job since management wasn't happy with the output of the nine internal developers aka nearshoring and no internal would get a pay increase this year my tech's boss i think my team's boss was also fired forced out quit before he could be fired oh that's an interesting piece of context that changes my thinking a little at the end there huh so not a lot of signal that things were not going well and then fired in a surprise to you basically and then pow and also some weird negative things

at the end of january so this is a recent question it doesn't say when the exact time lightweight started in trying to figure out okay fired on january 3rd fired in the last month Does that mean that they stuck around for the rest of the month? I think what happened was they had a six-month probation, and during the sixth month, they were fired. Yeah, because at the end of January, did this happen after they were fired? Yeah, maybe. I think so. It's like later heard from the department. That's what I interpret that as. Yeah, so there's some fuzz here that indicates maybe it was partially due to business concerns, but i don't think that changes the core of the question which is this was bad i would like to

not be surprised in the same way again how do i avoid it hmm yes exactly how do i figure out where i stand and not be blindsided and i think question one you gotta i mean there's probably an answer to this question that transcends all teams but i think that's and that's useful and we will get to that i think probably but i also wonder as i sit here and consider this person and their experience i would want to know was i rightly fired or wrongly fired i mean what does that even mean why do you want to know i mean wouldn't you want to know wouldn't you yes and i have obsessed about it when i've been laid off was it was it right or wrong but right and wrong are what does that even mean was it right like was it the right move for the business to make

what did they correctly evaluate no when they decided to make this change you know like basically i want to know are they did they fire me for the reasons they stated that i required too much assistance and that i was effectively not doing a good enough job as an engineer or is there something else going on i would be dying to know how would you there's there's not an oracle that can give you the truth of this though so i i don't know yeah there's not anyone that yeah i think you're just you're doomed to never know yeah i think the healthiest thing for you is to say it was probably a mix of both and there were probably some outside factors and also there were things i probably could have done better and i'm never going to get a clear answer about this

i asked for example pull requests and i'll never know what those things are yeah that does not surprise me i think there's this ideal state where there's a there's an airtight legal case proving the expectations were really clearly communicated to you and you knew they were clearly communicated you knew what they were and and they've got documentation of the failures and documentation of talking about the failures so you knew that they knew that you knew about this like this basically never happens oh it happens every time there's a pip sort of but even then the pips are often this all happened before the pip and then the pip is the the long agonizingly slow descent of the guillotine after you're already strapped down yeah i think for better or for worse

it's often vibes based and it's hard to argue your way out of getting fired unless it is illegal in an easily provable way and it doesn't i don't know this is in europe so i don't know all the legal repercussions there but i assume the fact that it was a six-month probation means that it was there was some expectation of it's easier to terminate employment yeah during the probation yeah for sure and then it becomes really hard after yeah and and this is why i think in this scenario given the fact that the lead was also or the boss was also let go later and the rest of the team was brought in to say hey you're not doing a good job no one's getting raises and we're out we're outsourcing your jobs to this team in another country in europe this is all i i'm putting all

the clues together and listen i'm no sherlock but i think they let you go and the reason you got let go is because you were still in your probation when management decided that this team wasn't doing a good enough job and they can't legally let the rest of the team go because it's europe yeah and they have to do more long-term painful things to actually let the team members go yeah so that's my airtight what's the word case closed what do you call it when a detective actually like figures out the case cracks the case that's me cracking the case this is your big reveal at the end of a mystery movie yeah that was it this is my here's what happened yeah moment the part that is unsatisfying about that to me is how that would not help me sleep any better at night in my next

job i think i would still feel in my bones there's a risk here that i might be suddenly fired which i guess is well true kind of always but you'll feel a lot better after six months on the new job yeah after the probation period yeah but i think it is worth examining what else could i do differently at this new job some of that is information gathering right you said you had vaguely positive one-on-ones positive or neutral and this depends on the manager some managers are more direct than others about their frustrations with you or where they believe you're not meeting expectations some will literally never tell you even if you ask hey how how do you think i'm doing they will say fine yeah because it's a lot of work to dig into this with someone oh yeah i mean i

have often not often but somewhat often i have had negative feedback for a team member as their manager and i have withheld it because it is not concrete and specific and actionable enough and i'm like it's just a vibe and i don't want to freak them out unless they have something really specific that they can do and i'm like well you're just bad at your job yeah but i'm not gonna tell you that like you know i think your iq is too low oh no i will coach you now we will coach you on being more intelligent broadly in general like yeah like there's a core unchangeable part of your personality that i don't like yeah that's not feedback i'm ever gonna share you know yeah but it could get you fired like not you dave yeah exactly it could be

that's that's and oh trust me this personality definitely has gotten me fired so you need to be if you want really clear feedback on how you are doing and where you stand first kind of accept that it's impossible but second you need to gather the information not wait for it to be pushed to you so yeah because the way it gets pushed to you is in your resignation yeah yeah exactly not always yeah hopefully it's easy to tell if you're doing a great job you get effusive praise but even then i mean i don't know there's some cultures that where they praise you a lot oh listen i i gotta tell you i think most team members most most people that work at companies have no idea how good of a job they're doing when they are doing

the best i can't tell you how often i have sat down with someone to say and i guess this reflects really poorly on me but i've had i've had multiple people sit down with me where i'm like hey i want to meet with you and you know it's that hey i want to meet with my boss situation and they're like oh am i gonna get fired yep yeah classic manager mistake okay i literally i'll tell you what oh man this is so embarrassing for me but i guess we're just gonna go there i'm a terrible manager. This is what I have to say about this, but I try to be good. Anyway, I sat down with someone to give them an award. I called them up and I said, hey, they're remote. So I had to call them up. And I just said, hey, I want to let you know, you have been selected as the engineer for

your team of the year who did the most valuable work this year, the most impactful, the most like recognized most valuable and i am awarding you this great honor for this year there's a bonus associated with it there's a little prize we're gonna send you and he was like oh wow i thought you were calling me to fire me i'm just like i was like oh my gosh ah so people and that's probably happened to me three times in my career where i've i've wanted to sit down with someone and just give them some real big praise and they were just so surprised even people who i know are really good engineers and i know they know it somehow and even by the way it's not just me this is not just a me problem i've had friends who were like i walked into my boss's office and i had no

idea if it was going to be a reprimand or praise and it was praise oh yeah yeah it's i mean i know you this is so common yeah i mean that's part of why it's advice to managers to not don't say hey can we meet without a thing and and i've definitely done that before and i hope i don't do it anymore it's easy to forget once in a while but i always try to remember like hey there's nothing wrong but i need to meet with you i need to meet with can we talk about specific thing x yes exactly exactly like hey i need to schedule i need to reschedule a meeting can i meet with you for a minute not like yeah can we meet oh yeah anyway so i guess the point of that whole monologue was nobody knows where they stand the best engineers in the world don't know where they stand and by

the way the people who think they are the best in the world often are the opposite i'm the best engineer on this team yeah debatable yeah i think that that's that is part of why it's kind of on you some of it is on you to gather the information and there's layers here there's what is your boss's opinion of your performance and that's separate from kind of what is your performance in some idealized, abstract, absolute sense, which is hard to gather, but maybe a different version of that is what is your judgment of your performance compared to your peers? If that's a thing you don't want to be surprised by, then you should be able to collect information. A great way to do this is specific questions. Hey, do you have any feedback for me is the worst way to get

feedback. Yep. Hey, what did you think about how I handled that customer complaint? Do you wish it had gone faster yeah very specific i like that like how was my response time on that yeah or this pr yeah took a while to get merged what do you think i could have done better to get it through faster or i don't know the more specific your question is the better your feedback will be and it also reflects well on you i think in general to just show like i would like to get better now jameson i can't help but observe that these ideas you just shared are all about collecting objective accurate feedback about yourself but i gotta tell you i spent the last three days with our head of sales and i've got some different ideas on how to do this

i really did yeah i'm always inspired by a really excellent salesperson how would you sell yourself this is yeah yeah this is great so listen you're you're working at a job right like let's take the the question asker for example he's been at this european retailer for almost six months and is wondering, how am I doing? Well, that's not actually what you want to accomplish. What you want to accomplish is keep your job. And the way you keep your job is by influencing the way people feel about you, not assessing the way they feel about you. To be fair, if you actually want to do a good job, you do need to know what people think about your work. And personally, I'm a truth seeker and I love that. But if you want your boss to

think you're doing a good job. And I don't mean in a deceptive way. I mean to understand truly the good job that you are objectively doing. You have to tell your boss the good job that you're doing. I learned this early in my career when I realized that feedback that came in to my boss about me that was negative would take months for me to hear about. And by the time I did hear about it, it was way too late for me to do anything about my employment situation or my pay. And so i i learned from that to start sharing my like who was it uh jameson who came up with the idea of a brag document uh i think julia evans was the julia there you go i heard it from the brag document you have to be willing to tell your boss the good things that you've done because your boss

is just not the default state is they don't know what you did they just don't know they have too much that they're managing and not too much to keep track of and so you need to go tell them especially during your probation period like every week maybe every two weeks you're like hey here are all the things i got done and highlight the accomplishments don't spam them with a thousand things you got done call out the big impactful things that you did every week or two yeah maybe every month so that at the end of the probation period they don't wonder they don't have to do any work or research to to realize i gotta retain this this team member yeah that's the sales way to do it yeah i love that you brought that up it's very valid and i think

implicit in what i was talking about is and thus i don't know do something to make it better but well also true of course i i do believe that was implicit in what you said i wasn't trying to say no no your idea was bad no i don't and your idea is fundamentally better because it is more like i am going to be better by collecting i mean i don't think so though it's sort of a if a tree falls in the forest if if you write great code that your manager does not know about does it help your job security did you actually write great code yeah and kind of indirectly probably yes like fewer bugs it's easier to work with your team kind of has this idea that oh you write great code but that's all that all has to filter up to your manager and it takes a long time and

sometimes it doesn't make it at all yep also it's you're missing the key objective the key objective is keep my job yeah you know like that's the main objective yeah i mean that's actually not the main that's actually a crappy way to live but if you want to keep your job you do have to do that like the real great way to live is be impactful and useful and good yeah and do great things and then the rest will take care of itself but sometimes the rest doesn't take care of itself yeah yeah i agree i'm trying to say something more than yeah but that is very wise and it is a classic kind of engineer pitfall to say well the yes the artifact the output is what matters and and the world the consequences in the world descend from the output of my work

they are and that's just not how it is there's a bunch of fuzzy people stuff going on that's right and that's important that's why you listen to this show yep because we are not going to tell you how to write the code because that's our patented unobtainium tier patreon level no bugs driven development philosophy and yeah if we tell you that then then what advantage do we have but we can help you with all the other stuff. Exactly. That's our moat. Yeah.

You not knowing the truly good advice. Yes. You keep coming back for more. Yeah. Dave. Okay. So I want to read our next question, but first I want to wrap up and just say,

as snarky as this may sound, asking how to get good feedback is the wrong question. The right question is, how do I make sure my boss knows that I should be retained? That's it. Weird. Love it. Okay.

Sorry. Would you read our next question now, James? Yes, I will. Okay. I would and I will and I shall. Trevor asks, how do I balance depth with breadth? At my current job, I moved around projects and code bases all the time, and I'm exposed to a variety of technologies and sub areas. That's cool, but I feel like I only managed to face the consequences of our choices for a couple months until I moved again.

I think I need time to really become an expert in any one area. At the same time, I dread getting stuck in maintenance work. It seems like most people around me at my company are outside, find it boring and soul-sucking, and are only excited about major projects from scratch. does a job that has a good balance of both exist and if so how do i find it oh trevor what do we know about is this a big company uh i don't remember let's see if we go check in our handy spreadsheet software startup well wait that's not trevor sorry that's totally different established software company okay 10 plus years old well not only lms can hallucinate Yeah. Turns out I can too. This does sound soul-sucking to me.

What does? Maintenance work? Yeah. Jumping from project to project every few months and just doing maintenance on something that you don't feel a strong sense of ownership on. What does the word maintenance mean here? Because if the alternative to maintenance is starting a new project from scratch, basically almost all software development is maintenance then? I think I have a slightly different definition of maintenance than that. I think maintenance is everything except building new stuff whether you're adding new features to

existing products or building new products from scratch that would be non-maintenance yeah but maintenance to me would be like oh we need to upgrade our our spring framework to the newer version because our oldest one just went end of life i mean our previous bug fixes seem like maintenance often yeah bug fixing or our our company is moving to a new cicd pipeline and i have to migrate it i don't know these kinds of things it's like the stuff that we spend literally like a third of our time on yeah robots should do all that stuff i've i've been told robots can just do all that stuff and i can only do the cool stuff now they also are supposed to be doing my laundry by now but yeah yeah i would love i would love that the only robots i've seen doing that

have a human on the other end of a internet connection yeah yeah have you seen the one where the robot very visibly takes its headset off as the worker connected at the other end ends their shift. I haven't seen that one. That's so great. Yeah. And then it just mysteriously stops moving. The order matters.

First, disconnect the arm units, then take your headset off. Oh, that feels so horrible and dystopian if there's really literally a tele-controlled robot doing your laundry. Yeah. Did you know we can outsource manual labor? Not just call centers now.

Yeah, that's horrifying. Are you envious of your friends that live overseas that have people to do their laundry? Yeah. No, those people can do your laundry. Yeah, that sounds horrible. It's terrible. And yet, there's a little part of me that looks at the giant pile of unfolded laundry. Tempting.

Yeah. Don't those children need jobs, Dave? Those children? those children aren't i in a war-torn economy somehow okay uh only get the face so either that or cowering in fear in a bomb shelter come on fold my laundry yeah it's so terrible i do feel like there's a false dichotomy here of either i build new major projects from scratch or i'm doing boring maintenance work and there's a big middle area of working on valuable things and most valuable things are not started from scratch they're they're enhanced and maintained over a

long period of time. So there's tons of, there's an infinite amount of, we built V0 of this thing and got enough traction. And now we have this whole product direction that will take a long time to execute on. Yes. And I think that's inherent here. That's like the other aspect of this question, which is I never stick around long enough on a single project to get to that level of accomplishment. Yeah. That's the worst of both worlds because often the shape of someone who sticks around a really long time is like this project is just sort of mothballed and we need the one person who knows everything about it to keep it up and running yeah and that there's a little bit of grass is greener syndrome on this question too because this person is envious of that person

that gets to stick on this project for a long time but sometimes the long timers they look at their project and they're like man i've been working on this same thing for four years and it's just such a bore you know and then you got this other person who's like every three months i work on a brand new project and it's so terrible yeah i there's probably a i wonder why why do you get moved around all the time it might be a useful question to ask is it just everybody gets moved around is there is it just random project shutting down yeah is it is it random and it just like somebody has to flip the coin heads 47 times in a row it just so happens you're the you're the stochastically gifted person that happens to be part of the random shuffles every

time i dread getting stuck in maintenance work if you get moved around a lot that's that's the shape of a really high quality engineer where you'll parachute them in to go solve crises all over the place but i don't get the sense that they're the kind of like staff engineer that jumps in and rescues things from the way this question is ordered yeah yeah i got the same impression. It's not that. I don't have an answer to why you get moved around a lot, but that could be a useful question to ask. I do think sticking around is how you earn the cred to be able to say, I think we should do this big new thing. Like if you prove you can do something useful, that sometimes takes a little while and that's easier if you stick around. So there is some

amount of paying your dues where if you do some of the boring work, you kind of prove that you are trustworthy prove that you have good useful ideas and then you kind of try a little bit more exciting things and if those work well you get even more cred to try even more exciting things only excited about major projects and scratch i don't know i i find maintenance interesting or exciting because i like polishing stuff interesting and every time everything you've ever shipped has had many compromises to get it out the door faster many of which were the correct business decision it's not i'm not trying to say the compromises are bad but you just look at it and go oh but that part could be better and then if you're maintaining something you get a chance

to say now it's worth it enough people use it enough people depend on it this is enough of a pain that the part that we knew was a pain is worth it to fix i find that very satisfying yeah but you probably have to stay on the project long enough for that to feel that sense of satisfaction Yeah. So it's almost like there's a chicken and an egg problem here of, well, how do you stay? I don't know. Why do you keep getting moved? I don't know. Solve one of those and you solve the other one. Yeah, and that is interesting, but I do think I would also get tired of this situation. It seems like this question asker, Trevor, is not the only one. Most people around me, they find it boring and soul-sucking and are only excited about major projects from scratch. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, that probably means they're also getting moved around a lot and only working on old stuff that they didn't create for short periods of time.

You can't do a major project from scratch in a few months either, though. so yeah or maybe it is maybe it feels major because it's like brand new lots of hype around it yeah you got a marketing team cranking it up you got a bunch of engineers working together on it as opposed to trevor working alone in some corner on some old legacy software that's terrible yeah hmm there's a really dumb answer to this question that's sort of the same dumb answer to the last question which is just like be really visibly awesome and then you'll get you'll become the mega staff principal engineer that gets parachuted into cool stuff yeah i've worked around a few engineers that feel i should sit down and think try to articulate what it is about them

that gave them this power but they they had the power to do big things and nobody gave them permission to they just did it i think for some people they they wait for permission a lot i feel like i'm definitely that shape where i don't want to touch stuff that might mess something up so i if someone says go build this big giant thing then i'll go dig in and tear it apart but i'm worried about breaking existing things a lot and some engineers that i've worked with are just really good at not worrying about that i guess it sounds like a backhanded compliment but i think that gives you the power to do bold and ambitious and exciting things wherever you are even if you're working on maintenance there's or on a thing that is it feels like maintenance to you there's there's

given enough willingness to change stuff there's some value to be had there i don't know i feel like i'm just saying vague nothings about this though perfect bring us home dave what's what's the real good concrete advice the real concrete advice is quit your job and go find a job where you can work on something more stable and it's not maintenance this is a reason people quit though i mean it's one of them i think yeah manager they don't like is probably more common but i just didn't like the kind of stuff i was doing i've project yeah that's very common yeah i think that's even more common than manager for engineers i still want to work on this it's boring soul sucking maybe a meta not even a meta this is directing you could do is it's possible your

manager doesn't know this that you are not excited about the state of things if everyone wants to if everyone is complaining about it everyone finds it soul sucking then yeah maybe they do know but it's worth bringing up say hey i'm not pumped about this is there any way i can work on something different i think part of the problem is from your question it's not clear to me what that different thing is do you want to really become an expert do you want to build a new thing i guess you become an expert if you build the new thing but if you really want to dig into a deep complicated important system that probably already exists especially at an established software company yeah oh yeah those are different shapes you could just ask also just like hey

to keep me on the next project for a while yeah but then again if it's just all stuff you hate doing then i don't know that won't work either that won't work either well that wraps up our advice perfect i got nothing to add all right i think that means we're done we've done it we've answered the question we did it hooray uh dave what can people do if they want their own questions answered to such depth and with such erudite wisdom as we just delivered if you would like the kind of insight that we have to offer applied to your problems go to soft skills audio and click on the ask a question button where you can fill out our form we thank everyone who has done that the questions keep pouring in and we love them we love you keep them coming thank you thank you we

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