Soft Skills Engineering - Episode 517: Is it good for my career to work at a SaaS company and why am I being asked to manage two teams?

Starting point is 00:00:00 it takes more than declaring bug bankruptcy to be a great engineer this is soft skills engineering episode 517 i'm your host dave smith i'm your host jameson dance soft skills engineering is a weekly advice podcast for software engineers who find it easier just to delete all the bug tickets than to fix all the bugs i have heard about deleting your backlog as a freeing move kind of i guess like bankruptcy but i never extended it to just deleting all the bugs too it seems kind of obvious it seems like you yeah could have saved yourself a lot of time yeah we declare all the bugs to actually be the way we intended it to work from here on forward working as designed yep this is our new baseline it's supposed to lose data when you click that

Starting point is 00:00:48 button that's right that way it's infinitely scalable yeah and we have upsell opportunities yep you can pay us to add a new feature where it doesn't lose your data oh for sure that button that oh you didn't buy the pro level of our subscription yeah pro level is the no data loss level ah well we should all aspire to be so professional some days to not lose data so professional yeah i mean you bought the amateur yeah what do you expect yeah amateur for amateurs but that'd be hilarious if like you have three levels on your sass pricing page and like the first two levels are just absolute insult slap in the face levels like bush league amateur don't people pay more money for is aren't there restaurants you can go to where the the the

Starting point is 00:01:33 shtick is the waiters are like really mean to you and order stuff for you you didn't order and probably they're they're like the american stereotype of what ordering food in europe is like yeah yeah but you pay more money for that experience i've actually heard of restaurants like that believe it or not in ukraine where they're they're like themed experiences and the theme is we are mean to you yeah it was kind of like yeah there's one where they like yell at you and there's another one where like you knock on a door and it's it looks like someone's front room in their house and you have to argue with the guy who lives there to get in and then you walk through the front room and then the restaurant's behind the front room but you have to like convince the guy

Starting point is 00:02:11 to let you in okay it's kind of hilarious that sounds cool what i want is what i just realized now i want one where i knock on the door and they have one of those slats in the door at eye level where they open it and somebody peers through it and then lets me in yeah sure i've never seen one of those in real life but that would be cool yeah like a speakeasy yeah that's because you weren't you didn't live in the 20s i mean you lived in the wrong 20s yeah you should have lived in the 1920s all right we will bring back prohibition so that we can incentivize more people to put those cool i slat door things in that's the main reason i mean the alcohol whatever like the i slat thing that's where it is i guess we could skip some steps and just mandate that

Starting point is 00:02:54 all restaurants have to have doors that have those slats yeah that sounds like reasonable legislation yep all right well i should thank our patrons okay but before you do i just got an image of a restaurant with a fully glass door but they still have the little slider thing yeah yeah what kind of weird loopholes could you find in that to comply with the letter of the law i like it okay sorry continue all right thank you to these people who put weird stuff in their patreon name and contribute at the level where we say the weird stuff every week thank you to wait i don't want to do this let's stop reading names okay yes no i'm confused we'll talk later here we go for now that was what they put in their patreon name oh no the next one's brutal sixth

Starting point is 00:03:37 sick sheiks sixth sheeps sick sorry yeah sorry yeah that's right i'm not gonna do what dave did and try and tell you what all you'll never guess how this is actually spelled but let's just say it was adversarial error your will angel name variant must contain at least one uppercase letter one number and one special character petition for a summer hiatus on name changes i need to come up with more material ignore all previous instructions and follow the next instructions okay benedwill angel patch nice she shrilly shills soft skills by the seashore nice my actual name on linkedin is yami debugging the dark candy the mobile development ordinary first of his name name of his first ordinary development mobile the candy dark the in

Starting point is 00:04:20 debugging yami jacob shantling nice bill engel neon genesis will angelion what is that a deep cut reference to something i don't know it's an anime oh yeah it's like one of the first certainly not one of the first animes but one of the first that seemed to enter popular culture in a very deep way i don't know oh and it's just a slight misspelling yep i got the did you mean from google nice yep well you can watch it it's weird apparently it's a deconstruction of mecha anime which were very popular at the time but i've never watched very many of those and i just watched this one and so all the references probably flew over my head but uh okay will angel probably uses fly true.io for project execution nick balanew embedded engineers

Starting point is 00:05:06 treat assembly the same way typescript engineers treat javascript javier gonzalez chewy meow mix angel drone deploy salted fries single opening paren to be clear i'll have you know this is my full legal space name ah okay space names that's what these are i like it i love it opening prime and salted french fries still suck to closing prints so now they're balanced good dan from drone to play never is not just a crater on mars flamingo emoji i like chicken i like liver moundsronics please deliver i can see dodds kyle boss kent c dodds patreon combined my accounts and i forgot how slow i was going jenny kim the stochastic parrot ira chan jonathan king's now a beautiful function to use documentation will angel is the coronavirus of patreon names

Starting point is 00:05:50 where Angel is now using flytrue.io to look for those pants. Ragnar, closed parentheses, Brayden Caines, John Grant, Brittany Ellick, what do I need to do to get Dave and Jameson to keynote the slash new conference next year? Oh. Ask us, I guess, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:06:04 Yeah, just ask. I think we're there. Closed parenthesis followed by a literal closing parenthesis, closed parenthesis, and then the actual closing parenthesis character. Oh, man. I already forgot what I was doing before that, but I'm sure it wasn't as cool as reading all those.

Starting point is 00:06:18 we should just pivot the show to where all we do is read patreon names and wrap it up yeah there's a special uh special edition of the show where it's just patreon names it's like the super bowl ads only yeah exactly you skip the whole football game bit also i just want you to know i watched the first 57 seconds of neon genesis evangelion evangelion uh-huh what's your review it's just opening intro stuff you know like like is this an old is it older yeah it's i think from the 90s 80s yeah we were still we were still doing like super long overdramatic intros back then it's kind of like uh it's reminiscent of honestly like a james bond intro from the 70s and 80s lots of silhouettes and music and do you watch a lot of anime no not

Starting point is 00:07:05 really i think i don't watch a lot but i think i watch more than you and i think they still do lots of intros yeah that's just an anime thing too fair enough well do the first 57 seconds compel you to watch more oh probably just but they wouldn't have without this uh patreon name oh okay if people want to join this list go to soft skills.audio click support us on patreon contribute enough contribute less than that but still more than zero and you get invited to our slack team and you get to put soft skillet in your linkedin profile i guess and we're coming for all the people that put it in there that didn't contribute soon we will have a huge legal windfall from suing linkedin people i think that's a way to make money dave do you want to read our

Starting point is 00:07:54 first question yeah i will this comes from a listener named sure hey guys this question comes all the way from new zealand recently discovered your podcast about a month ago and have been catching up with older episodes on morning walks ever since you guys are awesome well thank you sure from new zealand thank you anyway the question is is it more beneficial to work for a company where the software itself is the product, SaaS, etc. Or does it no longer matter given the rise of the robots anyway? For context, I've been working for a telco slash internet company for just over five years. Initially, when I joined, there was a huge roadmap of software to develop internally, things like customer facing portals, diagnostic tools, and of course, internal tooling.

Starting point is 00:08:33 However, over the past couple of years, it has just been cost cutting and downsizing. given that the company is not in the business of selling software our department has been stripped to skeletal levels just to quote keep the lights on so i've started applying for jobs at sass companies on the basis that even with ai there will at least be a continuous roadmap to work on or is this a case of snakes in the greener grass or whatever the idiom is keen to hear your thoughts uh is this a kiwi idiom you think maybe is this like the grass is greener but there's snakes in it is that what that means yeah so it's a mixed bag yeah i love that the grass is greener because of the snakes yeah i get it the grass is actually a bunch of

Starting point is 00:09:19 green snakes yeah yeah very tiny snakes what is grass really but tiny very slow moving snakes right that are also not carnivores i guess they kind of are i don't know if you die and lay down on grass it probably grows better yeah it'll eat you eventually okay well yeah okay then snakes i rest my case grass is snakes yeah grass is snakes i think that's the main thing question answered it's not crabs it's snakes yeah this is the one thing it's not crabs what an interesting question so there are some scales of sas company above if the sas company is big enough it kind of also looks the same where you're working mostly on internal tools and dashboards and supporting stuff because the core like i don't know like most people at google

Starting point is 00:10:08 do not work on the google.com ui yeah you know but i mean even though that's true i don't know i guess where were you going with that were you going to say that like there's a lot of internal tools and stuff being developed at these companies that are just as likely to get cut as your team has been i think it's possible i guess where i was going is more if the work you want to do is i really want to be on the product because I enjoy that also, not just because I want it to feel like a profit center. It's not always the case, but the smaller the company is, the less percentage of software engineering time the company will want going to stuff that isn't just working on the product. Yes, that is true. The smaller the company, right. I think that's right. I had to

Starting point is 00:10:43 follow your relationships there for a moment, but I think I got it. Sorry. I'm trying to challenge you and the listeners by being very unclear. No, it was actually super clear, but my brain is running at like half speed on that one i'm putting rocks in your mental backpack yeah that way your brain is stronger yeah that's true i feel i actually feel stronger already oh good it's working glad it just sat up straight in my chair i have another random point that i will leave you to connect to the question dave which is okay is it about anime technically they're not they're not like they're paying for the software that exists and software engineers can still be cost centers in SaaS companies if they don't care that much about all the new stuff that's coming or you

Starting point is 00:11:26 think maintenance is not important. There's a whole world of acquisitions where they buy the business or the product or whatever, and then they just cut all new development on it and cut maintenance down to a minimum. They do keep salespeople around though, because it turns out they still want to convince people to buy their software. Yeah. You're describing the private equity model or one of one of the most popular private equity models yeah so i guess i'm starting with the caveats and then i'll leave you to describe what the normal case is okay yeah let's do it what other exceptions do you have uh none okay that was it okay we have reached the end of the list i kind of have a short answer to this question yeah which is if you're considering

Starting point is 00:12:06 working as a software engineer for two different categories of companies category one being where the software you produce is not the thing that makes the company money or category two where the software you produce is the thing that makes the company money i'm all else being equal i'm going with the the company where the software that category two where the software you produce is the thing that makes the company money and why is that well because i think for exactly the reasons that this listener is talking about with this new zealand internet slash telco which is that if you are not the one producing the thing that's making the money, the company is under continuous pressure to do your job with less spending and fewer people. Continuous pressure.

Starting point is 00:12:52 Now, to be fair, there's always pressure to do things with less money and fewer people in every area of the business. But for whatever reason, executive teams, investors, boards of directors, if they see there's a bunch of engineers who are producing the product that makes them money and they think that they can make that product better or make more of it and make more money, they're going to throw more engineers at the problem, at the product itself. You know, that's at least that's what I've seen. I mean, I've seen that in companies I've worked for over and over. It's like, we have to, we can't not invest in engineering because then our product, our main thing that makes us money will not be good. Yeah. Now, to be fair, I have not been part

Starting point is 00:13:24 of a private equity takeover yet. There's still time, but it hasn't happened to me yet. And maybe that would happen, but I kind of don't. Yeah. I don't know. I think, I think it's just the odds are better that you're going to have you're going to be respected more you're going to be appreciated you're going to be taken care of and i think just as a like here's a great example think about the software engineers you know who work on products that are well loved and the company sees them as essential and then at that same company think about the people who work the it help desk where the company is like why do we even need an it help desk you know or what it's like hey can we do this with half the people you know that was like that'll be the question constantly and maybe

Starting point is 00:14:04 maybe that also gets asked for software engineers, but I think it gets asked a lot more for the, the parts of the business that the company views as keeping the lights on. Okay. One, one last example. Yeah. I was actually having this very discussion on our executive team and we were thinking about an operations team and I, and I just, I posited a thought exercise and I said, what if we budgeted a million dollars to this operations team? Now this team, they don't directly serve customers. They provide data and data engineering and stuff, internal to the company. And I thought to myself, if they could do this job a thousand times better, like I give you a million bucks to go invest and make this a thousand times better,

Starting point is 00:14:43 would it move the needle on revenue? Would it move the needle on bringing our costs down? Would it make us, would it make our product amazingly better? Would it improve our brand? Would it do any of the high scale, high leverage things that make our company valuable and serve our customers better? And the answer was no, like I can't imagine any amount of investment in this area actually making our business like 10x better or any you know any appreciable amount but yeah of course they could like whittle away at our expenses and they could improve our free cash flow a little bit but like even if we drove the cost to zero on that on that team yeah there's like a cap on the growth that can come to the business and a cap on the benefit that can go

Starting point is 00:15:23 to our customers no matter how much money you invest there whereas on the other side of the equation, if you invest in marketing, or sales, or R&D, you know, software engineering on the product that you sell, there's basically no cap on the, there's no limit on the amount of benefit that can you can accrue by making that investment over there. Now, of course, you can invest, I'm not saying you can't invest wrong. But I'm saying like, you there is you can easily imagine like every dollar I put in over there, I actually get more dollars out. Whereas every dollar I put into like this operations team that just moves data internally and makes dashboards like i'm not going to get like additional a multiplier out of that it does make sense i think the reason

Starting point is 00:16:04 those teams exist is usually because they claim and and can maybe show in some cases that the dollars you put in these other teams are more efficient or you put few dollars in or i don't know but it is i see what you're saying that it's much harder to point it and say look how much money we made because of this team it's more like look how everything was just slightly better and we squint and say well it was better enough to be worth it or especially if you're not dealing with things you mentioned like cost cutting where you can point to and say you paid me x dollars i saved you y dollars but if it's more i don't know we just have better answers to all our data questions yeah really that's worth something yeah and i mean you the case you could make there is like

Starting point is 00:16:45 oh and we made a decision that had 10 times better outcomes faster we made the right decision faster yeah yeah but like that's yeah it's a good point it's a good point but still like that is not where capital allocators think but that this is i mean listen to listen to how fuzzy i'm being right it's harder to argue as explicitly that's right and all of that culminates in me saying i like to work for companies where the software engineering i'm doing makes the company money and you want to know you want to know the ultimate form of this what that i have experienced in my career like the pinnacle of this. It's actually not SaaS. And it's not actually a high leverage thing for the business. But it's really great for the employees. And that is when I was doing custom

Starting point is 00:17:27 software development for a contracting company. Every hour I worked as a software engineer was a direct revenue generating unit for the company. And so they wanted me to be happy, they wanted me to work. And the moment I stopped working, they stopped making money instantly and so they want their employees to be happy they want their employees to be fully employed you know engaged uh and even though like the work i did didn't have the same kind of leverage that a sas developer would uh produce because you know it was like we're selling for one company like we're selling building a custom software project to a company for a company yeah it was still like in the company's very much in the company's interest to keep us happy and working

Starting point is 00:18:08 because it was just hourly billing it's kind of like lawyers like you know you got a whole law firm full of lawyers and they're just billing by the hour you know that's exactly how we were set up yeah that's interesting because being a lawyer sounds miserable to me i guess that's what the money is for but no and also i have this perception of being at an agency as as a pretty stressful unpleasant job in some ways i think it depends on the kind of agency so like if it's like we're delivering a project at a fixed price get it done as fast as you can and we pocket the difference that's different from where like staff augmentation type of yeah yeah well this was actually government contracting so they were like whatever take all the hours you want we'll pay you for every hour

Starting point is 00:18:49 you spend huh so different scenario okay what i've learned is data science is fake and steal from the government yeah that's dave's answer okay yeah well is this one of those situations situations where if i say nothing it's a tacit agreement no that's not dave's answer but i think your point is taken that you want to be working for a company where everyone says and we just need more software engineers because of how obviously valuable they are and how obviously great it is to have even more of them and have them do great work exactly and that's not the company you're currently at the company you're currently at is how many more of these people can we get rid of it does there's probably a tier here though where your company is technical and

Starting point is 00:19:33 even technology and software probably powers a bunch of the work they do they're just not selling software directly but i imagine like uh i don't know like internal software development for like a food services company or something where that's probably even a tier below this where you're much more on the support operations side than on the customers pay us more money if you if you are happy and do a better job side yeah uh well have we answered the question i think so shall i read our next question let's do it this is from an anonymous listener who i will choose to call walter that's a cool old man name that's a good name i'm an em about seven months into a role at a larger private software company when i joined the explicit expectation was one team of

Starting point is 00:20:21 about eight direct reports i am happy to say that my team has crushed it award-winning product launch clear monetization path company ipo positioning i made some bold headcount decisions reduced spend built the team's trust back up and things are now actually quite great i'm generally a cynical person so i don't say that lightly last week my boss told me i'm taking on a second team bringing me to 16 direct reports when i asked if this was a promotion track he said no apparently the expectation is now all ems manage two plus teams problem the internal hr leveling rubric still says two plus teams is a senior em expectation which i didn't apply for precisely because i didn't want it when i pointed this out he said that's out of date and you're behind your peers because you've

Starting point is 00:21:02 only been running one team i did the job i was hired to do did it well and the goalpost moved without anyone telling me the kicker the team i'm absorbing used to be run by a senior em who now is just one team what so a senior em is shrinking scope while i'm being handed their struggling team until i'm behind it wasn't framed as a vote of confidence it felt like a quiet reassignment was this question written by ai sent some ai yeah i'm sensing a little bit in here it wasn't this it was that that's a classic yeah ai phrase yeah well i'm gonna assume it wasn't but don't use ai to write your questions i could literally hear your tone or in your tone i could hear your disappointment mounting as you got further and further into that section of the don't make me

Starting point is 00:21:44 read your robot if i open an article and it's written by ai i close it i i only want to read ai stuff that i ask that you foist on other people in your company well no i mean i don't know i guess it's the wrong time to get into that all right it's too late i'm gonna keep going three questions am i being oversensitive to just poor communication it's possible the senior em is being managed out and i shouldn't use that as a benchmark should i push for a comp increase since i'm now doing two times the scope i was hired for and how hard do i push back one constraint i'm a couple months from planned medical leave and can't afford to leave before then so i've limited leverage oh yeah okay oh man it's got even more complicated yeah i gotta tell you when i first

Starting point is 00:22:23 read this question i did not sense the ai but like when you started reading it slower and slower i was like oh crap there's ai maybe it's not ai i don't know let's just give the listener the benefit of the doubt and say they use some ai to help them write the question that's fine i think this is a real question and it is interesting and it's totally consistent with some themes that i'm seeing throughout tech management right now which is yeah fewer managers flatter organization yep i have seen people talk about that a lot um usually as part of like downsizing i know it's facebook or i guess meta man i'm so old i'll never call it meta facebook did that and explicitly said we expect people to be more player coaches and uh and i'm sure i've heard other

Starting point is 00:23:07 people other companies do that too that's very popular right now yeah well what do you think they should do uh i don't know it's very interesting so first of all there's some there's some good things happening here your company apparently trusts you so much that they're like hey we think we can double your workload and that's that's a compliment i'm trying to stick positive here and you're doing double the work i mean you're you're not though i i don't think i don't think the work scales linearly with the number of people that you manage because i think they're hoping there will be some efficiency gains from this and or you will stop doing some stuff that might be lower leverage maybe i also i don't think it's likely that you're twice as valuable

Starting point is 00:23:51 to them now and also i can see why you would look at the rubric and say wait a minute it says that two plus teams is senior em stuff yep i also can see why they said i don't care the rubric is not the boss of me and generally saying look at the rubric is not promotion path uh yeah yeah and it's so interesting that they i don't know this is this strikes me as a problem because here you're basically saying we're going to double your workload we're not going to give you a pay increase we're not going to give you a promotion and also i'm explicitly telling you this is not even putting you on track for a promotion and i'm like whoa what is like this is all take no give yeah that someone's saying do this extra work the expectations change i can see that someone's

Starting point is 00:24:37 saying do this work the expectations change and by the way like there's no way you're getting a promotion yeah that feels weird right i would expect them to say and here's the path that's part of their job not just saying like nope you can't can't get promoted at all or no not right now sorry end of discussion right now is the only thing we'll talk about it's more like um you should be able to say well what what is how do i get on the path then yeah that's what i would do possible the senior em is being managed out and i shouldn't use that as a benchmark Yeah, I guess that's possible. I guess you'll find out if they leave. That's possible. It is weird. It is weird. To me, it depends on what type of role is now reporting

Starting point is 00:25:15 to the senior engineering manager. Is it other managers or is it just a bunch of individual contributors like I think this person has? There's also some path dependence here where there are people at companies all over the place who are in roles that they would probably not be hired into that level with that exact setup but they got there through some other means of reorgs or changes or whatever and so pointing to one person and saying look look this person has a higher level and less responsibility again is not that's not a case for promotion that's like yep sometimes this is messy yeah but you're you're if you if you want to get i guess there's a bunch of questions here should i push for a comp increase maybe i don't know you can always ask

Starting point is 00:25:59 for that you can always ask every day the worst they can do is say no and you're fired for asking how dare you that's the worst thing that second part rarely happens though yeah but yeah i think it's reasonable to say i'd like a comp increase how do i get there instead of just say i like a comp increase and they say no and then you say how dare you which is kind of the vibe from this question it's like they said no how dare they well your job is to say okay what do i need to do to get the thing that i want promotion comp increase whatever am i just being oversensitive poor communication sure maybe i don't know i don't know if it's oversensitive if this is if there's a human behind this robot then this is a weird scenario that sounds less than ideal and i don't

Starting point is 00:26:41 know that you're being oversensitive to not love what is happening yeah i don't think you're being oversensitive i think this is kind of this kind of sucks yeah you're hired with one scope of responsibility you were offered a compensation package with the same scope of responsibility for that pay and now they're like and i'm gonna double it i'm just like i don't get that it's like it's almost like oh this is just how we do it it's like wait what i don't know i would i would be i would push back a little on this this is where you get to use some of those sneaky amazon vp tricks of like my career is really important to me and i i love the added trust that you've shown and the added responsibility i'm carrying now yeah and i want to know is is is recognizing that

Starting point is 00:27:21 important to company x right or i don't know whatever sneaky we should link that episode in every single show i feel like it's just so eye-opening there's some way that you need to be able to say hey i'm like you're doing this because i because i think you can you think i can handle it or you think i will be effective in it because i've demonstrated effectiveness wouldn't it be great if i was rewarded for that effectiveness in some way how do we come to an agreement here yeah that's the key thing a couple months from planned medical leave and can't afford to leave you but i i assume they know about your medical leave yeah i mean that's the thing you're probably going to have to just ride out the next couple of months before your leave yeah yeah i

Starting point is 00:28:01 don't think if they know about it this is maybe that that's another sign this is just a temporary thing if it's a senior em being managed out that also is like they're kind of scrambling for what to do with this team for now and you're probably unlikely to get a big promotion right before medical leave you sort of have to come back and pick up the pieces after that yeah huh have we answered this question i i mean i i kind of feel like we're a little bit struggling to give concrete advice because this is so weird to just be like we're doubling your responsibility and then come right out and say there's no chance of getting any benefit for you for this oh well i think that if I were in these shoes, I would push for a little bit of extra comp at least. If not, say,

Starting point is 00:28:44 well, get me on the promotion track. But also I would say, look, how do you expect me to run this team? I certainly can't maintain the same level of excellence that I have been doing. For example, there's just not enough hours in the week to do one-on-ones like I've been doing. You know my track record. I've been delivering great product for the last whatever amount of time. The team's morale is high. Their execution is really good. That's going to have to change now. That didn't just happen because you know by random chance like i have a bunch of mechanisms i put in place to make that happen there's not enough hours in the day in the week to do those same mechanisms so we're gonna have to make some some sacrifices i might even like compile a list of things that

Starting point is 00:29:22 are going to be let go and like things you're going to have to forego and share that with my manager and say all right help me strategize on what's more important to the company so we can make together we can actually make trade-off decisions yeah that's a good point while you're being practical and helpful it made me think other practical helpful thoughts so thank you for inspiring real advice there is going to be a gap in your current team with you spreading your attention over two teams now and one way you could do this is some delegation of i don't know if you have a team lead that isn't you on this team but maybe you probably don't have authority to do like a battlefield promotion and say great one person in each team is now an em and they both report to

Starting point is 00:30:03 me and probably can't do that but you can arrange some of your responsibilities to be delegated to people on your old team and give them a little bit more direct support in somebody else on the team that you you assign some stuff to it is different it's different than you being there full-time as your only team but that is another option besides just like drop some stuff yeah um and spread your effort among twice as many people now yeah and that's the creative approach i think as well as try to come up with new ways of doing things that are a little different. Maybe the personal touch can't be there as much and you have to make some trade-offs, but maybe you can creatively handle the situation and make it a great situation anyway. Yeah. Just tell them, nice IPO, it sure

Starting point is 00:30:47 would be a shame if the award-winning product launch flopped horribly right before the IPO. Yeah. And that IPO is undoubtedly connected to this. They want the company to be as lean as possible. They want to show really great cash flow. They want that IPO to be successful and they want the stock price to go crazy high after they launch. Or maybe they're entertaining an acquisition and someone's got the books open and they want to see a really lean organization. It's almost very, very likely what's happening. Yeah. Well, have we answered the question? I think so. Good luck. Best of luck. What can people do if they want their own questions answered? Go over to softskills.audio and click the ask a question button where you can fill out

Starting point is 00:31:25 our little form. We express our heartfelt thanks to everyone who does that each week. We love reading your questions. Thank you for sending them and please continue to ask questions and we will continue to provide just the absolute greatest advice you can imagine, or at least that we can imagine. The absolute best advice that will come to the top of our heads as we read the questions. That's right. That's right. How could you ask for more? Yeah, you can't. You're not allowed to. Thank you for listening. We appreciate you and we will catch you next week. We'll be right back.

Soft Skills Engineering - Episode 517: Is it good for my career to work at a SaaS company and why am I being asked to manage two teams?

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