SOLVED with Mark Manson - 6 Ways to Stop Giving a F*ck

Episode Date: August 7, 2024

We all wish we gave fewer f*cks in our lives, but wanting to and doing it are two different things. If you've read my book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, then you know that not giving a f*ck doesn't mean you don't care about anything—it means deliberately choosing what you give a f*ck about and ignore the rest. In this episode, we dive into the realities of not giving f*ck, the good and the bad. We talk about why there will never be a time when you're completely free from judgement by others. Why being "normal"—whatever that means—is not something to aspire to, nor is wanting to be liked by everyone. How criticism is a part of life you can't escape—but not all criticism is created equal. And a whole lot more. Check it out. Sign up for my newsletter, Your Next Breakthrough, to be a slightly less awful person: https://markmanson.net/breakthrough Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, before we get into it, if you listen to the show, you probably consume a lot of personal growth content. The books, the podcasts, YouTube videos, all of it. And you've probably noticed the gap between knowing what to do and then actually going out and doing it. You've got the insights, but what you don't have is something that connects them to your actual life. That's why I built purpose. It's a personal development AI that learns you, your patterns, your blind spots, all the stuff that you keep circling back to over and over again. Instead of handing you another framework, it gives you specific personalized direction.

So check it out. You can try it for free for seven days. Go to purpose. That is purpose. Dot app. So funny thing, I was just in Budapest, and they lost a third of their territory after World War I. And they're still upset about it 100 years later, even people our age. And they call it a national trauma.

Like they use the word trauma. And it's like if you stop a random person in, and, Hungary on the street and you mentioned the Trinon Pact, they understand it as a trauma. It like raises this interesting question of like, can a nation experience trauma? I mean, I know we're like, we're in this era now where everything is trauma and there's like,

there's like repressed trauma and intergenerational trauma and cultural trauma and people trauma, ethnic trauma. Can there be a national trauma, Drew? Hmm. And why is that a trauma? And why isn't like, I don't know. Like, you don't hear, like, we don't talk, in the U.S., we don't talk about civil war is like a trauma. Not anymore.

Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Has it been long enough? I don't know. So Budapest itself or you mean Hungary lost territory during World War II? Hungary lost over third of its territory during World War I and two thirds of its population. Oh, okay. And like 80% of its natural resources.

That is pretty traumatic for a small country, I would say. Yeah, right? So the reason I bring this up. Yeah. Where are you going with this? I was just in Europe. Okay, yeah. We just did two YouTube videos.

We shot one in Hungary, and we shot one in Portugal. The one in Hungary is, Hungary is the most alcoholics in the world per capita. Okay, yeah. 22% of the adult population is clinically, oh, wow. Diagnosable as an alcoholic in Hungary. We did a YouTube video there investigating that. Like, what are the historical reasons and cultural reasons?

And then we went to Portugal. Portugal is actually technically the most anxious country in the world. Has the highest diagnoses of generalized things. disorder in the world and has for like 30 or 40 years. That kind of surprises me. I don't know. I've been to Portugal, it's a lovely country. Surprise me too.

Yeah. Like when you think of Portugal, you associate it with like clean beaches and like the sipping in a cappuccino on a beautiful cafe on a sunny day and like yeah, Portuguese are like all worked up. I didn't, I saw very few like homeless people in poverty. I didn't see a whole lot of that. Maybe I was just in the tourist areas or whatever. I don't know, but that that surprises me.

It was interesting doing both of these. So for listeners, both of these videos will be, they're going to be like mini documentaries that are going to be posted on the YouTube channel. Hungary was like, I kind of went into it. I'd read about their history. Obviously, they were like controlled by the Soviet Union for 50, 60 years.

That clearly is going to fuck you up pretty well. So like Hungary, I was like, I kind of had a sense of like what was going on. Portugal, it was a complete surprise. I kind of went in with a few hypotheses. You know, it's poorest country in Western Europe, a lot of unemployment, cost of living issues A lot of brain drain, but There's definitely a plot twist there. It was there it was one of those

Situations where it was like once I was on the ground there talking to the psychiatrist and psychologists Learning from from the local people that that a different conclusion came up any clues to that or are you gonna No, I'm just gonna leave a cliffhanger It's not what you would expect okay, it's It's not what you do. I think it's the most obvious thing that people would look at is some sort of economic issue. But it's a Portugal is a curveball. But it was fun, you know, got to meet up with some listeners and readers while I was out there.

I guess just like trying to help the Portuguese give fewer fucks. And came back last week, saw you had on the docket an episode about not giving a fuck. I'm going to be honest. I like didn't even look at this outline. I guess you could say I didn't give a fuck about this episode. But in my defense, in my defense, I've done approximately 18,000 interviews about not going to fuck. That's true.

I think you've prepared for this one. You literally wrote the book on this one too. Yes, yes. Yeah, I get it. But the name of the podcast is the subtle art of not giving a fuck. And we haven't done an episode. It is true. In nearly eight or nine months.

It is true. Well, I'm hoping that we touch on some new angles. Let me say this. We're not just going to rehash the book. Right. We're going to bring some fresh takes and some new angles to how to approach not giving me to fuck. And so I guess this is more like the keys to not give me to fuck or tools that can help you give fewer fucks and take it easier in life. A little bit of how to.

Yes. More of a how to and less philosophical. Great, great. Well, yeah, so I gathered like a bunch from like things you posted on social media or conversations we've had or little things from the book too that I'd like you to expand on. So yeah, if we want to, we can just jump right into this. Let's do it. All right. I feel like the kid who's like showed up to the exam without studying.

So I'm like, but I'm confident. I think it'll be all right. You're the professor at this point. I don't know if you're the student. So let's jump right in. So this first one I found, if you wouldn't ask them for advice, then fuck. criticism. Oh, hell yeah. So this is funny because it's, you know, over the years, I've talked to so many people. Like I, if I was to to like informally create a spreadsheet of all the things that

people complain that they give too many fucks about over the years, obviously what other people think is probably number one. It's like top of that list. It's just almost everybody who comes to me with a I'm giving too many fucks problem. It is some permutation of I care way too much what this person thinks or that person thinks or what this group of people is going to think. And I just find it over the years I couldn't help but notice a pattern and that it's like we tend to strangely we disproportionately care what people we don't respect think versus the people that we love and respect. Like my wife and I we joke all the time and I think a lot of married couples will relate to this and that like, like, she and I will give each other advice and we're like,

eh, what do you know? But then it's like, well, like, you know, like a month later, she'll be like listening to a podcast or watching a documentary. And it's like some professor at Harvard like gives her the exact same, says the exact same thing that I said. And then she's like, oh my God, that's so true. I can't believe I never thought of that before. And I'm like, what the fuck I was telling you this a month ago?

There's some weird thing where it's like the closer people are to us and the more intimacy that we feel with them We we like somehow we like take them for granted Maybe it's because we feel so secure in the relationship it doesn't eat at us This like need to earn their approval or avoid their judgment or you know be right all the time But it's like the people who we kind of think are dicks and who kind of treat us poorly That we feel this like constant need to impress them or win their approval over and And so it's this weird paradoxical thing that I think just is a natural component of human psychology that we disproportionately get obsessed with like earning the approval of people that don't

really deserve our time and attention. And so I really like that line. I feel like it just crystallizes the kind of the absurdity of the situation. Like if you wouldn't ask them for advice, then why the fuck do you care about their criticism? I don't know. Have you ever experienced that? Oh, definitely. Yeah. I think there might be a little bit of negativity bias that creeps in there. Like you, because people you don't know as well or even don't respect as much are much more likely to come at you with like a negative.

Yes. Criticism or something like that, right? So our brains are just wired for that negativity bias to put more weight onto that. Yeah. I think that's part of it. I don't know. Whereas, you know, somebody who's closer to you is going to at least soften the blow a little bit or I don't know. Or maybe there's confidence of like even if they disagree with the thing that you're doing. They still love you and care about you. I don't know. It's funny because there's a person in my life right now who understands nothing about my life or my profession or my job. And this person has said some things to me recently that really grinded my gears.

And it's like it's been eating at me for months. And it's so funny because I'm like it's the one person in my life who like arguably understands the least about what I'm doing whose comments that I'm like the most upset about. Like it's their comment that I'm thinking about three months later and I'm like, I'm going to prove them. Like maybe if I do this, then they'll understand, right? Maybe the motivation is less about the approval and just like this desire to be understood. At least this is how I experience it most often is it's like I feel like if people, like the people who criticize me, it's like if they just understood what I understood, then they wouldn't feel that way. Yes. Then they'd be a little bit more compassionate or their criticism would be more constructive or they'd be more helpful.

And but you just realistically, you're never going to make everybody understand what you understand. Like that's just part of life is that a significant proportion of people are just never going to understand. Well, okay, so about this person in your life. Do they, have they put themselves out there? Have they, or is this just kind of a random person? Or have they actually done something where it's like their criticism? actually does count in a way. Because there's that whole like Teddy Roosevelt,

man in the arena, right? He gave that whole speech like basically saying, don't give a fuck about what anybody says, especially if they're not putting their ass on the line. Yeah. Is this person at least worthy of a few fucks given or not? So this person has done really notable things. Okay.

And it's like, it is an impressive person. Okay. It's just that they've done it in a different arena. Okay. Gotcha. And I think maybe what greats on me is that they like, I feel their judgment when I don't think they understand what arena I'm in.

That I can identify with. If it's somebody who hasn't put their ass on the line, then I'm just like, whatever. I don't care. Well, another example. So basically, like the first 10 years of my career, my parents, two of my parents, two of my three parents, were very critical of my career choices and did not hide that. Yeah. And in my opinion, they were very condescending about it and diminished the things that I was doing.

And at the time, it drove me fucking crazy. And it was actually very motivating because it was like, I'm going to show them. Like, well, if I do this, then now I'll show them. And it, like, I got caught in that cycle of trying to win approval, which is kind of a double-edged sword. It, like, it can motivate a lot of action, but it's like motivated by a bad intention. So it just ends up making you feel worse. But it's funny because it's like, now that that's not an issue, I look back. in that time. And like this is classic shit. This is like classic stuff like my stepmom being like,

why don't she put on a suit and go get a real job? Like because she just didn't know what a blog was. That's really what it boiled down to is like she didn't understand what blogging was in 2012 and how you could sell a course online. Like completely understandable why she would be critical because she didn't understand what I was doing. And but at the time it just like it fucking ate at me. Like it would really spin me up and trigger me and, you know, bring out all sorts of expletives over Thanksgiving dinner. But yeah, I get it though. I think it's just there's there are a lot, especially with people now, you know, you have a platform to stand on and shout and people are going to react to that. But it's just like, who are you listening to?

Who are you? Who are you letting into that space where it's going to be like, I actually do. you give a fuck about this. And that's a really hard thing. Again, going back to the negativity bias. Yeah. What's going to weigh the most on you is going to be kind of just the negative, shitty things that people say and do.

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. It's funny. I mean, this is one of those questions that I don't have an answer to. Like it never goes away. You just get better at dealing with it. Yeah.

Because now it's like this person in my life now. It's funny because it's like I see the game. that my brain is playing. Like I think 10 years ago I get all wrapped up into it and start like obsessing. Now it's just kind of like, oh yeah,

this like the things this person said are like eating at me. And so now I just kind of like try to channel that productively like use that as motivation. Not like I'm going to show him, but like just the like, okay, yeah,

I'm a little pissed. So like let's go do something with that. So I think I've matured in the sense that I'm like, I'm not as I'm much more conscious and aware of that dynamic as it goes on, but that dynamic has not gone away. Right.

Despite all of my success and experience and writing and studying and researching, I'm still a fucking monkey with like wanting to, you know, win the banana. It's not going away, which is highly, highly related to this next one I had down, which is people will judge you for whatever you do. People will judge you for whatever you don't do. So fuck the people and do the thing. It's not going away. Right.

So this is, yeah, this is another interesting way to look at this is that, again, this fear of judgment if you do something, well, there's going to be a judgment if you don't do it as well. Like there's a judgment no matter what you do or don't do. So like judgment is just like I think the trap that people fall into is they assume that judgment is something that you can avoid. Like there's a, there's a world where you are not judged by anybody ever forever. anything, that you find the perfect people who love you perfectly and always, like, always agree with everything you do. Like that, that world does not exist. That's a fantasy land.

So judgment is a permanent state of your existence, whether you are being actively exposed to that judgment or not, like, makes little difference. So you might as well be judged for the things that you find important and worthy. And this ties back into one of, you know, one of the main points of. of subtle art or in the first chapter of subtle art is that like the key to not giving me a fuck about adversity is giving a fuck about something more important than adversity. And I think this is this is ultimately like what holds so many people back in this area is that they get so caught up on on just not experiencing the judgment that they don't think about like what's worth being judged

for. What are the things in my life that I don't care how many people judge me for it? I'm still going to do it because it's that important to me. I care that much about it. I think that's actually the question that people should be asking. Right. And I don't think, like, this happened for me. Actually, when I came to work for you, I've told you this story before. But I mean, I was in the middle of this Ph.D. program. There's a very set path to go. Then you came along and ruined my life. And continue to ruin it today. Yeah. Continued to ruin it to this day. No, but there were, I mean, there were a number of people around me who basically thought that. You're ruining your life here. What are you doing? Because, again,

this is this was 2014. What the hell is a blog and how do you make any money with it? And how's this guy to got to pay you. There were a lot of people, you know, the head of the grad, um, the graduate studies, she sat me down. I was like, are you okay? What's going on? What happened to you? Um, and to me, though, it was just so, I was like, yes, this was so self-evident to me that, no, this was the right thing to do. So I think you're right. I think you have to, you, you'd have to figure out or be in the right space, um, to where you do know exactly what you give a fuck about. Right. In this, in this situation to be able to be like, I don't care what you think. I just didn't care. It's also realizing, like, I bet a lot of those people who tried to talk to you, it's funny because my wife went through the same thing.

Like when my wife decided to leave Brazil and start traveling, like a bunch of her friends sat her down. They're like, because she quit her job, quit her career, all this stuff. So like a bunch of her friends sat her down. They're like, where are you going with this American guy? Like, how does he make money? Like, what's a block? But it's interesting because I think a lot of those people in those situations, their judgment is actually more about them than it is about you. 100%.

Right? Because it's like, 100% They're struggling with the PhD program. They are heavily invested mentally and emotionally into it, but also maybe have some doubts, maybe are second guessing themselves, maybe wishing certain things,

certain sacrifices in their life weren't being made. And then they see you just picking up and leaving and like that's scary because it's like, well, if he can do it, what's stopping me? Right. What's my, like, what's keeping me here? and it forces them to ask difficult questions about themselves. That's 100% what I saw.

Yeah. Yeah. There were, there were, it was funny, though, because there were several people, it was like my parents. They were like, yeah, go for it. Yeah. That's cool. So which they've always been like that. So I'm very lucky in that regard.

But it was the peer pressure around it was palpable. But yet at the end of the day, I was just like, I knew. I just knew whatever it was. So I don't know. Is there a way to get to that? Do you think there's a way to get to that space? Or to me, it just I didn't even have to think about it. Right.

At that time. And so I don't know. I think that's maybe a harder where it's hard to find that kind of clarity, I think, for a lot of people. I mean, I think what you're talking about is conviction. Yeah. And conviction's a hard thing to find. But it's, I mean, from what I've found true in my life is like, like, there's this great

Peter Thiel question where he says, like, every, founder of CEO that he talks to that like comes to him for an investment like the first question he asks him he says like what do you believe is true about the world that most people don't and I like I love that question so much because I think as a creative person just as a writer I find that that generally leads me to the most interesting topics and the most important topics but on a personal level I feel like that that's where conviction comes from because it's easy it's easy to believe in things that everybody else believes in like everybody believes a PhD program is valuable, right? So it's easy to believe that. And the fact that you believe it doesn't,

it doesn't carry any weight or significance with it. It's very difficult to think that a PhD program maybe doesn't have a lot of value to it. And like to do that, you have to search for evidence and principles on your own and do the reasoning on your own and become convinced of the reasoning on your own. And I guess that process of like doing it on your own rather than relying on the opinions of others, it is more difficult, but it generates more conviction once it's done successfully. I got you. Yeah. And like what I have found in my career is that I will often investigate things that are very contrarian and like, you know, everybody believes the opposite. Let me look at this thing. And nine times out of 10, there's nothing there. It's like, okay, well, everybody believes the opposite

for a good reason. But that one time out of 10, you actually do like, okay, the crowd's missing something here. And if you can like generate enough evidence there, like it becomes a very powerful thing. I had several years to stop and think about it. So it wasn't like this was just it fell upon me and I was highly convicted. It took a while. But yeah, I got to that point. Yeah. I went to, I went through a thing to a lesser extent when I started, started my online businesses because all my university friends went into the corporate world. And it was funny because I mean, it wasn't as explicit. Like nobody like pulled me aside. It was like, what the fuck are you doing? But I noticed it's like I kind of stopped getting invited to things. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, it was like conversations and like I started getting left out of conversations or like certain questions that people would ask each other. They stopped asking me, you know. So yeah, you, you like, it tests you for sure. But. But, yeah. But it's like, I think this is important. Like, the, this comes back to that first point of, of like, what are you willing to be judged for? I think when you find something that you have high conviction in, that is maybe not a popular path or a popular belief, the fact that you get judged for it, like that testing of it, I think is actually important and makes it feel more meaningful. Like, I take a lot of pride in a lot of the things that I've done because people thought I was kind of crazy when I started. Like, that's actually what makes it feel more meaningful and powerful on the other side of it.

Whereas I feel, again, I feel like if you're just always following what everybody else says and thinks and does, you're not going to have that feeling of purpose and reward at the end or not to the same extent. Definitely, yeah. 100% I use it as a badge on her too. Yeah. I'm not. But I think I've always kind of been like that too. And even when I was younger, I was like, I'm not going to be like everybody else around me.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I guess, but there is a cost to that, right? So it's like, oh, yeah. You get to feel a little bit more significance and meaning when, you know, when things turn out well. But when things don't turn out well, you look like an idiot. And also, like, it's isolating, right?

So it's like, when you're, you know, when you're, you're, you know, you're, you're on the same path with a bunch of other people, you have the added benefit of, like, a sense of community, you're in a thing together. There are other people who understand what you're going through. When you choose the thing that most people aren't doing, there's a certain amount of isolation that comes with that. Well, this is the next one, which is to be liked by all is to be loved by none. Yeah. I think that's what we're starting to get at, right? This reminds me of like, I had this concept and models, my dating book about polarization. So in the context of dating, like one of the points I made in that book is that, is that attraction is polarizing.

So like anything that's attractive is polarizing. So like you can't if you're middle of the road in every way in life, like there's nothing attractive about you. Like the thing, the things that make an individual attractive to some people will make them unattractive to others. And so you actually want to paradoxically like lean into those polarizing things about you, which tend to be like very identity and personality based. and they will immediately turn off a large percentage of people,

but they will also turn on a large percentage of people. And I think this is just true in life in general. It's definitely true in business. Like the company that tries to make a product that everybody will like usually ends up making a product nobody likes. Like it's just this blah generic commodity. Like the only things that everybody likes are commodities. You know, anything that is unique, distinct adds a significant amount of value

to like one group of people is probably pissing off another group in some way or form. And actually, those two things are generally proportional. Like the more a thing is loved by one group, the more it's generally hated by another. And I think, you know, again, this comes back to people not wanting to be disliked, people not wanting to be judged, people not wanting to be hated. Like, they don't understand that as you protect yourself from the negative social reactions, you are limiting your positive social reactions. As you limit your negative feelings on the things that you're doing,

you're also putting a ceiling on the positive things that you can do. So it's like, and again, finding that important thing in the world that you're willing to be judged for, it's like, what's the thing you're willing to be hated for? What's the thing that it's like, you know is right, and if people don't understand it, you're still willing to do it. And it's hard to find that thing.

And most of us, like, rarely have many of those things in our lives. But when you have it, like, it's super, super important and you really need to go all in on it. Yeah. And you've said you have a really good quote around this that we've used for a long time, which is if you want to be a powerful life-changing force for some people, you have to be willing to be a joke and embarrassment to everybody else. Yeah. Right.

I think that I think the line is it's impossible to be a life-changing presence to some people without being a joke and embarrassment. Right. Right. Which is totally true. Right. Yeah. Which basically sums up my career.

I was just going to say, yeah. You start out in men's dating advice, which some people would look at and they'd be like, oh my God, that is so cringe, right? Yeah. But, I mean, you're actually helping a lot of people in that regard. And then it's self-help world in general. It still goes on today. I saw, I forget where I saw it.

I saw a comment somewhere, somewhere on social media. It was like some guy was like trashing me and he called me a pseudo philosopher. I love that. I was like, yeah, I kind of am a pseudo-floc. I actually thought about putting that. Twitter bio. It's like author, best-selling author, entrepreneur, pseudo philosopher.

But it's funny because it's like, that's actually a perfect example because like that guy was trashing me for the exact reason that people love me. Yeah. Which is like I don't come up with any of this stuff. It's like all this stuff with like the Greeks and Romans and Buddhists. Buddhist and Enlightenment philosophers, they all came up with this stuff.

It's just that like I'm repackaging it and simplifying it so that like people sitting in their, car can understand it and apply it to their lives. That's not philosophy. That is pseudo philosophy. That's like plain philosopher when you're not. And I take a lot of pride in that. I think it's actually a hugely valuable service for the world.

And I have no illusions that I'm like actually practicing philosophy. So yeah, that's a perfect example of like the thing that I get trash for. I'm like, yeah, actually, he's kind of bang on. But I think it's a good thing. It's the family and friends event at Shoppers Drug Mart. Get 20% off almost all regular priced merchandise. Two days only. Tuesday, April 28th and Wednesday, April 29th.

Open your PC optimum app to get your coupon. It goes back to your values too. I think it was, I know it was Oliver Berkman, and one of his, I think it was in the antidote. He said something along the lines of, you know, he understood that the whole, he waited in, he was a journalist and waited into the whole self-help realm, right? And he said, you know, I know that there's a, there's kind of a a cringe reaction to the whole self-help, even the word self-help. He said, God forbid anyone want to help themselves, right? When you put it that way, well, like, what's so bad about it anyway? And if you think that that's a bad thing, well, I don't even give a shit about your opinion.

It goes back to the, you know, self-help is kind of like porn and that like nobody respects it, but everybody uses it. Like, If you look at the bestselling books of all time, it's like seven out of the 10 are self-help books. Right. It's absurd. I mean, it's a multi, multi-billion dollar industry. I generally find that sentiment mostly around, to bring it back to academia, around academics, journalists. Yes.

Very highly educated people. Yes. Which I find ironic because it's actually very highly educated people are like, the highest consumers of self-help material, and they're also the ones who go to therapy. Right. So, like, it's, you know, it's like, okay, yeah, you have all these degrees, but you're still sad and anxious and depressed

and, like, spending hundreds of dollars on therapists and coaches. So, like, you know, okay, trash self-help if you want, but you're kind of the target demographic. Yeah. Well, okay, here's another way then related to that as well. Statistically speaking, a normal person. is physically unhealthy, emotionally anxious and depressed, socially lonely, and financially in debt. So fuck being normal.

Just to kind of back this up with some numbers too. Yeah. So the I still, I'm just shocked by this every time. I look up the updated numbers. Overweight obesity rates in the United States is nearing 75% at this point. I remember back in like the late 2000s, early 2010s, it was like 60%. It's almost 75% now for overweight and obesity. the United States. Yeah. It's insane. 80% of Americans have some form of consumer debt and average

a $38,000 in debt, not including mortgages. That's not including home mortgages or anything like that. So yeah, people are unhealthy. They're in debt, socially lonely. Yeah, loneliness is at like 60, 70%. So why do we want to fit in so badly if that's the case, right? I love this idea because it's there's there's two types of normal there's like the cultural narrative of normal and then there's the actual normal the like statistical reality of normal and what most people worry about not fitting into is the cultural narrative of normal the cultural narrative of normal is completely skewed it's like it's it's it's a Hollywood version of normal right and it's invented and made up in people's minds and it's probably a bunch of marketers and admin invented

it to the sell dish detergent and fucking hair care products. Like it's like our idea of normal is just completely, completely off. It's so funny because this whole conversation of like not giving a fuck and not like, how can I give fewer fucks? How can I be less anxious? How can I worry less about what people are thinking about me? It's funny because all these things that we're talking about, these are not theoretical. These are not abstract theories.

These are not like theoretical thought experiments. Like it's simply just recognizing reality. It's like really basic pieces of reality that for whatever reason we tend to miss or forget about. You know, like you will be judged for everything. Like that's just a simple reality of being human. Yet we somehow like dilute ourselves and forget about that because it's it's unpleasant to to remember Same thing with the normal thing like that that normalcy is actually Generally unhealthy not really like there's not a not not a whole lot of success financially or

You know relationally yet the the image that people compare themselves to is is probably in like the top 10% of like actual human outcomes in the world So again, it's just a reality check. It's another one of these like slaps in the face of like, you know, wake up. Like this is not the thing that you've constructed in your mind is not real. Like the fears and the narratives around the fears that you've been living off of were just made up. Like reality is actually way more sobering. This is a bit of a tangent. But again, I love tangents.

I'm always shocked by these. what why like we knew back in the 2000s and 2010's like obesity is a problem that's a problem and there's all these basically PSA's going out or people writing about it or books written government initiatives and yet it continues to get worse why bro have you been to Taco Bell lately have you tried the new I have not the new chaco tacos I mean it or Shake shack, I mean, no, I have not. Shake shack is a religious experience.

Yeah, yeah. It's, uh, I don't think I've ever been to a shake jack, actually. Oh, it's so good. Everybody in California loves in and out and overrated. It's so overrated. And, uh, it's, it's gonna get a scans on that.

Yeah, in and out is just like the most overhyped piece of mediocrity in the fast food industry. I mean, this comes back to, like Derek Sivers has this great question. He said, if all it took was information, we would all be millionaires with six-packs. We don't act on information. Right. We act on emotion. And most lifestyle habits are driven by impulse and emotion.

And it takes a lot of work and a lot of effort to either fight against those impulse or emotions or retrain those impulses and emotions to do the things that are healthy for us. And so it's, like, food is just a very, you know, we talked about this on the, on the health journey podcast. Like, it's food is such a, it's such an instinctual, unconscious relationship in our life. Like, it's such a primal thing. And our instincts around it are so fucking powerful. And so, I mean, like, as somebody who was obese, just this recently is a few years ago. Like, dude, I knew all the data. I knew, like, I knew everything about processed carbs and sugars and, and, and, and, I,

alcohol, like I could have told you all of the information as we drove to Shake Shack. And I ordered a double double smoke shack with two orders of fries. Oh, it's so fucking tasty, dude. It's so tasty. That just sounds painful to me now. Like, it just, I don't know. I don't know. But it does get into like this.

We're talking about this whole being normal thing. You do feel this poll back into that. Like, no, come join us. come, come back to, to our side, be normal. I've noticed that too, just around like health stuff. Luckily, my friends, like when I stopped drinking, none of them were like, oh, come on, just have a drink. Yeah.

But I know a lot of people who do get that. Yeah. Or a lot of people who, you know, I'll sit down. I'm like, you know, no, I don't want whatever terrible food that's here. I'll just have the salad or whatever. And sometimes I get some shit for that. Like, oh, come on. Just live a little.

There's that pull. You know what I mean? There's that pole. It's like the PhD thing, right? It's like, yeah. you know, I'm completely all in on my unhealthy decision. How dare you have willpower in the face of glorious temptation? Like, because then it calls on the question my willpower and my ability as a human to make good decisions.

I do think this is also an area where environment plays a very big role. I mean, again, just got back from Europe, like impossible to to ignore that Europeans are significantly healthier on the food. front than North Americans are. And it's just the food there, it's higher quality. They have a culture and history around food. They, they, they've got all sorts of regulations around processing and chemicals and preservatives and shit that you can't put in the food. And it makes a big difference.

And, you know, you don't see fast food everywhere there like you do here. They're not in their cars all the time like we are here. So it's, I do think when it comes like lifestyle choices, it's so many of them ultimately resort to path of least resistance. And so if the path of least resistance in your environment is shake shack or McDonald's, then that's probably what's going to get eaten most of the time. Yeah. And just an argument for being very, very conscious of who you surround yourself with and the culture.

That too. That you steep yourself. The people that you spend time with. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, okay. This next one then, your vanity tells you. the world is going to love you.

Your anxiety tells you the world is going to laugh at you. Both are lies. Yeah. I'm like really enjoying this idea right now that our emotions sometimes tell the truth, but our emotions also are liars sometimes. And I think this is another example of just reality solving a little bit of the mess that we experience. You know, because I think we all have this idealistic. belief that our emotions are always true and we should just listen to our hearts and just go with

our feelings, go with your gut. I personally think that's, that is our, that's the monkey brain talking. The monkey brain doesn't want to stop and think about, you know, whether the french fries are good for it or not. You know, the monkey brain doesn't want to ask itself whether, you know, people are actually going to like you or not. It, it just wants to do the thing. and believe whatever it wants to believe. And look, in some cases, our emotions are really good, accurate feedback mechanisms for things going on in the world.

But sometimes they're completely full shit. Sometimes they are, I mean, they're always irrational, but sometimes that irrationality causes us to be afraid of something that doesn't exist, to be excited about something that's not going to happen, to be worried about something that is completely imagined, to be motivated by something that's actually very unhealthy, to fall in love with somebody who actually doesn't treat us well.

Right. Our emotions lead us astray just as often as they put us onto the right path. And so kind of this blind adherence to our emotions and our impulses and our gut. Like I just, and this comes into my, probably my biggest criticism of the self-help industry because so much of the self-help industry is, I think, making people who are probably emotionally suppressed and teaching them that emotions are everything and they should listen to their emotions all the time. And it's like solving one problem by creating another.

Yes. And actually it's like you should stop suppressing your emotions, but you also don't need to listen to them all the time. You also should remember that your emotion is like a dog that poops on the carpet and and cries when it doesn't get the treat it wants. And you can still love it and you can still listen to it. You know, the same way you love your dog and listen to your dog, even when it shits on the carpet. You should love your emotions and listen to your emotions.

But don't let them rule your life. This also gets to the whole notion of entitlement that you get into. Yeah. In the books and other places that you've written where, you know, it's a very entitled thing to think, oh, I'm so special, the world owes me something or, oh, I'm so awful, the world owes me something. Right. This is getting into that a little bit too. Yes.

Right. For sure. And there's, that is, like you said, the self-helpment industry will often kind of play into that. Absolutely. Look at how entitled you are. The world has screwed you over. Yeah. It's time to get yours now, right?

Absolutely. The world doesn't give a fuck. You know why? Because that sells $5,000 seminars. Yeah. And telling people like, the world. doesn't owe you shit, your emotions don't necessarily mean anything. You should grow up and like mature to the point that you don't have to like cave to every impulse or emotion that you feel.

That doesn't sell $5,000 seminars. You might get a $20 book, say a lot of that. Yeah, you might, sell a book and you might get a free podcast listen. But, you know, $5,000 said, nobody's signing up for that seminar. So no, people want to hear like, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're happiness. You deserve to be happy all the time. You deserve your emotions are wise and true. And it's the universe telling you that you're special. And just, you know, sign up for this course and spend hundreds of dollars and bring your friends. And I'll teach you the meditation that will put you in touch with the universe and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's, it is spiritual narcissism. Like this is what spiritual narcissism is. And a lot of, you,

this industry trains people in it and gets paid a lot to do so. And I think they do because spiritual narcissism is an improvement over abject depression. Like if you take somebody who's so depressed that they can barely get out of bed or so anxious that they're like repeatedly having panic attacks and you train them to be a spiritual narcissist, that is an improvement. But it's not the end of the road. Like they're still an unhealthy person. And there is something to it, but it's incomplete. Yeah. By the way, it is, it is a verifiable fact that spiritual narcissists prefer in and out

burger over shakeshap. Or Tepha. Okay. We just lost a whole bunch of people. Great. Well, okay. I think this last one, you've already actually mentioned it, but it ties it all together pretty well.

To not give a fuck about adversity, you must first give a fuck about something more important than adversity. This was in the books. This was in articles you've written. Yeah. Yeah. It comes back to that to like, what's worth suffering for, what's worth being judged for.

And if you can't answer that easily, then that's the problem. The judgment's not the problem. The adversity is not the problem. The fact that you can't answer that is the problem. Well, and I think a lot of people will also, they don't know what to give a fuck about. They don't know what the adversity they're willing to endure. So what they've done all their lives is just look at what everyone else has done. We've kind of already mentioned this and follow that path.

And so you get, you do that for a few years, a few decades. And that like, yeah, you don't know what you're going to. You really don't. You don't know what you would sacrifice anything for. You don't know what you would endure any amount of pain for over a longer period of time. And so, yeah, they kind of all tied together like that. And I don't know. I think there's just there's a lot of people, I think, who are just kind of like accepting what's around them.

Yeah. As what to do and what to give a fuck about without it ever thinking about it. It goes back to the whole, how do you feel about this? emotional thing. Yeah. Cool. I guess we're done. I think so.

Okay. Yeah, we still don't have an outro. Say goodbye. Say goodbye, Drew. Goodbye, Drew. The subtle art of not getting a fuck podcast is produced by Drew Bernie. It's edited by Andrew Nishamura. Jessica Choi is our videographer and sound engineer.

Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.