SOLVED with Mark Manson - Breaking the Monoculture, the Rise of “Premium Mediocre”, and Choosing Your Suck

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Ever feel like culture’s splitting into countless micro-worlds where everyone’s just vibing to their own thing? In this episode, I introduce my theory on the "Jazzification of Everything." Drew and I dive into how our subcultures of music, entertainment, and even personal obsessions have evolved into these aging communities, totally detached from the cultural monocultures of the past. Whether it’s metal fans in their forties or electronic music lovers growing older with their favorite DJs, we explore how the media landscape and algorithms have encouraged us to stick to what we know—and why this shift could be both a gift and a curse. We also dig into why “premium mediocre” is taking over our consumer habits, and whether or not that’s actually a bad thing. We discuss how these tiny, exclusive-seeming trends might be fooling us, offering superficial luxuries instead of anything truly valuable. We cap it off with a big question about whether chasing after anything is worth it, or if we’re just dooming ourselves to disappointment. Give it a listen. Enjoy. Sign up for my newsletter, Your Next Breakthrough. It will help make you a less awful person: https://markmanson.net/breakthrough Chapters 00:00 Mark has a theory...00:24 The F*ck of the Week: The Jazzification of Everything22:11 Brilliant or Bullsht: "Premium Mediocre"38:03 Q&A: Why chase anything at all? Follow me https://instagram.com/markmanson/ https://twitter.com/IAmMarkManson https://facebook.com/Markmansonnet/ https://linkedin.com/in/markmanson/ https://www.tiktok.com/@iammarkmanson Theme song: Icarus Lives by Periphery , used with permission from Periphery. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, before we get into it, if you listen to the show, you probably consume a lot of personal growth content. The books, the podcasts, YouTube videos, all of it. And you've probably noticed the gap between knowing what to do and then actually going out and doing it. You've got the insights, but what you don't have is something that connects them to your actual life. That's why I built purpose. It's a personal development AI that learns you, your patterns, your blind spots, all the stuff that you keep circling back to over and over again. Instead of handing you another framework, it gives you specific personalized direction.

So check it out. You can try it for free for seven days. Go to purpose. That is purpose. Dot app. I've got a theory, Drew. And it starts with music, but I think it kind of explains everything. Everything.

Everything. Ever. Okay, not everything. But most, a lot of things. Bear with me. We haven't got as a brilliant or bullshit. We just started. Just started.

It's the summer. art of not giving a fuck podcast with your host, Mark Manson. I've actually, I've gone to a number of concerts recently. One of them was a metal show. So I'm a big fan of a band called Lamb of God. Shout out to Randy, the lead singer. He's a fan of mine. I'm a fan of his.

He was cool enough to invite me out to a show, got to hang out with them and everything. It was fun. You know, I was a big metal head when I was young. And it was interesting going back. I hadn't been to a metal show and probably at least. six, seven years. And it was interesting going to a metal show again. I'm in my 40s. Most of the audience was in their 40s. Some in their 50s. The bands were all in their 40s and 50s. Everybody

was middle age. Everybody looked like they, you could probably catch them driving a minivan and taking their kids to soccer practice during the week. And it was really interesting because I had a similar experience. I went to an electronic show maybe two or three weeks later. Okay. Same thing. It's funny, that one I went to and I was a little bit insecure. I was like, oh, it's going to be a bunch of kids on Molly and shit. And like, I'm probably too old for this.

No, sure enough, like half the audience was probably at least my age. And they seemed to be aging up. So here's the theory. I think of it as the jazzification of everything. The jazzification of everything. The jazzification of everything. And hear me out here. Okay.

So when we were young, jazz was lame. Right. And I didn't really develop an appreciation for jazz music until I went to music school. And I was forced to study it. And then once I started studying it, I realized like, oh, this is really intricate and cool and creative. And there's all this cool stuff going on. What I also learned at music school is that jazz was cool as fuck in the 40s and 50s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah. In fact, fun fact, the word cool. comes from jazz. Yeah. It's the invention of cool. There's actually a Miles Davis album called The Birth of Cool. Anyway, sidebar. Being a jazz fan as a young person in the 2000s, it was incredibly lonely and isolating.

I would go to jazz shows. First of all, they're in tiny clubs that held like maybe 50, 60 people. And it would be like me, two other music dorks, and then like a bunch of 60 and 70-year-olds. And it was just like, it was sad, especially because it's... The musicians were some of the best musicians I'd ever seen in my life. And it was this weird thing where like, okay, it had its cultural moment. And then rock happened and television happened and pop happened. And, you know, the mainstream culture just passed it by and kind of left it alone.

But there was this very intense cult following. This group of people that grew up with it and they never left it and they just loved it forever. And at the metal show, I was like, wow, metal is becoming like jazz. It's becoming the next jazz, right? And then I went to the electronic show. And I was like, electronic feels like it's kind of becoming the next jazz. And then I started thinking about every show I've been to and everything I've like, not just music-wise, but like the video games that I'm into or the, you know, the movies and the movies and TV shows that I'm into.

Like every form of media and entertainment, there is a small group of super mega popular hits, right? You have like the Taylor Swift and the Mario and Fortnite and, you know, the big Marvel movie or whatever. But everything else is like jazz. Everything else is a small subculture of highly dedicated fans. unlike in the 20th century where, you know, everything was a monoculture. There was all everybody was watching the same five channels. So it was like, you know, in the 70s disco was in. And then in the 80s, this goes out.

Now everybody's into rock and glam, you know, and then by the 90s, glam is out. And everybody's in the alternative. And everybody would kind of just jump ship to the next thing over and over. We don't have a monoculture anymore. So now everybody has their own little jazz that they're into, almost exclusive. from everybody else. And it's their little subculture. And you age together, right?

Like, I was a metal fan when I was 20. I went and saw Lamb of God. Now I'm 40. I went and saw Lamb of God. If they're still playing when I'm 60, I'll probably go see Lamb of God, right? Like, it's the, we age through together. The artist age with the fans.

And it's a completely different dynamic. It's like a balkanization of culture. Yeah. You saw this too, like in the 2000s when nerd culture kind of started to take over too. And there was, you talked about this with David Brooks a little bit, the atomization of culture that we have. And I think is that part of it, do you think? I think that's part of it. And I think so there's two dynamics that are really significant.

One is the atomization. So it's like everybody finds their own little subculture and they're like niche, niche thing that they're like really into. And they've got this little community online that they interact with. but the other thing that's changed is that you age through life with that culture. Again, it's not like you change out for the new fashion and the new music every five or six years. You're stuck in it. Yeah, it's like the band you were into in 2010, you're still into in 2025 and you're going to be into them in 2040. And like, like, I'm noticing this with our audience too, right?

Like it's when I started out, my audience was around my age. they're in their 20s and early 30s. Now, my audience is in their 30s and 40s. Like, we're aging up together. And the same way my interest change over time, their interest change over time, and we just kind of grow together. And when I think about my favorite music,

my favorite art, my favorite video games, my favorite like movies or whatever, yeah. Filmmakers, it's similar. You know, it's like we age and develop together. I don't find myself jumping ship. I don't find myself being like, oh, well, I was really into Nintendo five years ago, but now I'm into

Fortnite stuff, right? Like, it's like, no, the thing I was into when I was 15, I'm like still into now, and it just has evolved with me over time. That, what, what explains that? That is weird. I think it's... Is it the media landscape?

I mean, that's obviously a big part of it. I think so. I think it's, there's no monoculture, so I think there's two things simultaneously. One is, is that we tend to, whatever we like when we're like, say, 18 to 25, we tend, that just kind of like seems to cement itself in us for the rest of our lives. That's part of it. The other part is the media landscape is personalized. So it's like everything is algorithmic. Everything is designed to like, if you like metal music, here's more metal music.

And if you like shooter games, here's another shooter game. And it's like people don't really, because there's just an abundance of everything, nobody. ever, there's no scarcity driving you to go find a new thing, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Is that crazy? No, I think I've seen it too. I've also seen it, like if I look at people who are slightly older than me as well, and I see them, you know, there's some of them who look like they're dressed up going

to a metal concert all the time. Yeah. Or they're dressed up like they're going to see, I don't know, you know, little affair or something, whatever they were listening to do back then. I don't know. So I think I've seen this as well. I haven't really put a name on it like you have here, though. I think the jazzification of everything.

The jazzification of everything. Such a terrible name. It is as terrible, but. We'll work on that. We'll work on that one. But I think it, there's a, as with everything, there's a cost and benefit to everything, right? So the benefit is, is that you get to grow and evolve and age with your favorite media and art and entertainment. The cost is that we lose that monocult.

Right. Right. Like we miss those cultural moments that it feels like everybody's a part of. Like when you and I were kids, you know, Michael Jackson would do the Super Bowl and it was like everybody was paying attention. Everybody cared. Everybody was talking about it. Today, there's not really anything like that.

Like the closest thing is maybe Taylor Swift the past couple years, but it's like even though I know her numbers are higher than, you know, the numbers of other artists. from 30, 40 years ago. Okay. But the cultural impact doesn't feel the same. Like, it doesn't feel inescapable the way, you know, somebody like Michael Jackson or Michael Jordan was in the 80s or 90s. Right.

Because you literally only had like five TV channels. You could be completely oblivious to it. Like you could today. There was nothing else to watch or do. So you had to watch and do the same things that everybody else was watching and doing, which had a side benefit of making it feel like we were all. participating in the same cultural moment. Cohesiveness to the culture.

All the time. I do agree that that's a, the benefit side of that though is there are more people who feel at least somewhat included. Yeah. Or seen, you know, in some ways like, oh, I can go find this scene of mine

and be in on that at the cost of a larger cultural cohesion. Yeah. Second thought, here's my fuck for the week. Been to a bunch of concerts recently. Yes. The fucking phones, dude. It kills me

It kills me Here's the thing I noticed And this is what I want to talk about I kind of understand Because I do it a little bit But I'm also just confused It was very interesting Going to a bunch of different shows

And like most concerts You know there's a couple openers And then there's like the The kind of the subheadline act And then there's the big headline act And it was interesting watching the people around me Of course fucking phones in the air All the time

So fucking annoying. It was really interesting because in the super early opening acts that nobody had ever heard of them, you didn't see any phones. No phones. Everybody's actually watching the show. And thinking about like, oh, that part was kind of good or like, oh, this song's okay. As the acts got a little bit more popular and people got more into it, the phones started coming out more. And then by the time you got to the main headlining act, people just had phones in the air, the entire. time time. When I went to the electronic show, the headliner was like a big name DJ. And there was a guy next to me who at some point I actually thought he was live streaming the show because his phone was out for a good 30 or 40 minutes straight. And finally, like I kind of like crane my neck back and looked. And it's like, no, he was recording just a video. Just a video. Yeah. I'm like, dude, you're literally recording half the show. And to me, there's like there's something paradoxical there of the more meaningful.

the moment, the more people remove themselves from the present moment by pulling out their phones. Yes. Which kind of makes no sense. But then it's like also very consistent. Every concert or event I go to, this is what happens. The more meaningful the moment, the more everybody just whips out their phone and turns into a little filmmaker and removes themselves from experiencing the moment. Explain this to me. Help me out.

Sure. Well, I don't know. I don't. I don't use my phone in that way, but I do experience this in some different ways. Just very recently, I was standing on my back porch and I have this, there's like this beautiful little hay field across the street from my house and like a couple little mountains and stuff. And it's to the west, so I get really pretty sunsets, you know.

And I kind of glanced down. I was like, oh, it's really pretty sunset tonight. Immediately grab my phone, walk out on my back porch, take a picture, look at it. It sucks because it's the picture, you know. Never captured. And I just turn around and I walk inside. And then I got inside, I'm like, what the fuck am I? I'm going to go enjoy this sunset for real.

Yeah. And so I go back out and I enjoyed the sunset as it, as God intended it, as it were. And so, I mean, that's a small little sliver of the same type of thing. But it is, you look at that screen after, you know, whatever it is, a concert or a sunset or whatever it is. And it's just never as good. Do you put the phone right back in your pocket and just walk away or do you sit down and enjoy it? That's what I've trained myself to do is be like, ah, put the phone away and just enjoy this. So I thought about, so I actually thought really hard about this because I do occasionally pull out my phone.

Like, for instance, when the headline act comes out and they like start playing their big song or whatever and the crowd's going crazy. Like, yeah, I'll pull up my phone for 15, 20 seconds, be like, cool, let's capture this moment here. And I ask myself why? Like, what is the impetus there? Like what scratch am I, what itch am I scratching? Right. And the conclusion I came to is that because it feels like a special moment, I want to be able to remember it and relive it at some future point.

Sure. And my sense is that it's really all I want to do is just capture enough that I remember how it feels to be here. And I can get that in 20 or 30 seconds. Because past 20 or 30 seconds, I'm now removing myself from experiencing the moment in the first place, right? So now I don't have a memory. If I, like, sit there and record for 30 minutes like the guy next to me, I no longer have a memory of the moment because I spent the whole time recording. But then I asked myself, I'm like, okay, let's think about this for a second.

Out of all the concerts, all the fucking sunsets, like, how many times have I ever gone back through my phone? Yeah. And actually looked at this stuff. and sat there and been like, wow, remember that show? That was such a cool show. I never do that. Yeah. Ever.

Like maybe once every three years, I'll go back and look at a handful of things, but it's very rare. So I don't know. It just seems like the effort reward is completely off here. And it's annoying. Do you think that people who are pulling their phones at a concert? Do you think they're thinking that same thing? Like, I want to remember this later. Because I'm not sure that's what it is.

I think it's I want to post this on social media so I can be a part of this jazzification Yes of everything. Yes. And show that I'm a part of it. Is that that's a huge part of it? So I it's funny because I spent like half of this show just sitting there and like watching people trying to figure out why they were doing this. They weren't watching the concert in the moment. Yes. Which is what you were just taking your same word from. I was ignoring the concert so I could figure out why the fuck these people were recording the concert. There was a lot of Instagram going on, for sure. There was a lot of that going on. There was also one thing I noticed, too, is that drunk people were doing it a lot more, which is interesting. I'm doing more. Yeah.

I noticed the drunk people, like the selfie thing, the, oh my God, this is the best moment of my life. Like, drunk people, the phones were out constantly, constantly. There's a group of drunk girls in front of us, and it would like the amount of selfies, it reached hilarious. proportions. It was like, I don't think you guys got enough. I think you got to get another one. Let's go for number 81. All right. Yeah, I think there is some sort of social signaling thing going on with social media. But then it's like, I think about the guy recording like 30 minutes. I couldn't help but think it was almost like this is going to sound really condescending. But it was some of the people, it felt like they were afraid to just fully enjoy it. Like it was a way for them to feel like they were enjoying it without having to expose themselves emotionally, without having to lose themselves and lose control and show like how excited or ecstatic they were. It was a way to. They don't have to acknowledge the temperamental nature of it.

You don't have to acknowledge the fleeting nature that this isn't going to be here in a second. And so I need to somehow reconcile that. They're definitely, like I couldn't help. When I was watching people, I couldn't help but feel like there was like some sort of weird avoidance thing going on. Which again, strikes me as so strange. Like you spend fucking hundreds of dollars. You get nice tickets to a show. And then you just spend half of it looking through your phone.

Well, we just, I mean, we had near eye all on recently. And he cut, you know, he brought up the term, which other people use as well, the digital pacifier. So to me, this is the concerning thing, right? It's like, it's never been easier than ever before to alleviate discomfort. It's always in our pocket. And that alleviation of discomfort does not, we'll reiterate, it does not just happen in painful moments. It happens in joyous moments as well, which is arguably an even bigger problem. Also, the jazzification of everything is in its own way an avoidance of discomfort, right?

it's there was and now maybe I'm just waxing nostalgic but I do remember pre social media pre mobile phone there was when the culture shifted when it's like the new trendy music changed it kind of forced you of like okay well this is the new thing so you need to like start getting used to it and learning it and understanding it and at least decide if you like it or not And I think as long as we all live in our own little kind of cultural bubbles with the thing that we've loved for decades and we're going to love for the next few decades and we don't ever have to like change your minds about it or try new things, we kind of lose that cultural discomfort that like being nudged or pushed into experiencing different things or different stuff that maybe isn't that we don't necessarily like the first time. I see. So you're saying we age with that as just that this is our comfort lane here, that we're going to age along this subculture. Yeah. Like I don't feel like I remember when I was Again in music school right like I had no interest in jazz and then I was forced to

Understand jazz from an artistic perspective and I started really appreciating it I had a very similar experience with With hip hop at a certain point and I had a similar experience with electronic music at a certain point These days like I don't not only do I not feel compelled to like go try to understand like a different subgenre of music I just I don't even get exposed To other subgenres me like I don't even know if there are other subgenres of music being invented anymore Like I haven't heard anything new in at least 10 years like I can't remember the last time I heard something I'm like wow, that's different And there's a good chance is because you've been siloed off into this metal edm

It jazz huge yeah This weird this weird uh melting pot of taste but like yeah part of it is being siloed and then I think part of it is being siloed and then I think part of it it is that because everybody's siloed, the game for the artists, for the creatives, is to milk the long-term relationship and not innovate and not do the new thing, not be the new person, not invent the new subgenre. It's capture people when they're young and then just age out with them. Yeah. Over decades and decades. Yeah, I think you see that. I mean, you've kind of always seen that, I guess, with certain. bands, maybe not

entire genres or anything like that, but you've seen that, you know, there's always that tension between doing what's worked for me creatively versus trying something new. And yeah, and the kind of destructive, destructive nature of creativity. Yeah. There's always been that, right? Yeah. I don't know. Anyway,

I don't know where we land this. This, this was weird. This was weird. This was weird. I like it. All right, well, we'll be back with another weird theory. Right after these messages. The ride that steals the spotlight every time it hits the road, that's the Volkswagen Tiguan. Its sleek exterior makes a first impression you can't ignore. Step inside to find available full leather seats and wood accents.

Under the hood, the available 201 turbocharged horsepower engine gives it a fun to drive edge. The refined Tiguan, you deserve more style. Visit vw.com.ca to learn more. SUVW, German engineered for all. All right, we're back. I'm excited for this brilliant or bullshit. Yeah, me too. This was one that I put on the docket.

This is an old, old theory. Well, it's not that old, but probably 10 years old or something. In the internet age, it's old. Yeah, by internet years, it's quite old. Old blog called Ribbon Farm had an article about a concept called Premium Mediocre. And ever since I read about it, It's one of those ideas that's just stuck in my head ever since. And there's probably, I probably never go more than six months without something happening

in my life. And I'm like, oh, this is totally premium mediocre. So give us a brief synopsis of what it is. Yeah. So Van Gettish Rao, he wrote the, I think that's how he say his name, right? Van Gettish Rao. Is it Rao? Yeah.

I think that's how he says his name. Yeah. He wrote this blog post in 2017 called Premium Mediocre. What premium mediocre is. It describes product, services, and lifestyles that appear exclusive but offer only superficial luxury or quality. Okay, so it has an irrelevant touch of premium that doesn't really improve the essential mediocrity of the experience or product. Let me give you some examples, okay, some that he used anyway. Cupcakes and frozen yogurt.

Like, okay. Truffle oil that's not made from real truffle. Okay. That's a great example. That's a great example. He also uses avocado toast. That's a special case, but it's still premium mediocre. Certain types of lettuce.

I thought that was great. Like, you know, obviously iceberg lettuce is not premium mediocre, but like, what's the leafy green? I'm blanking completely on it. I have no idea. Oh, what's that one kind of lettuce? Yeah, you don't eat vegetables. I don't cook my own food. Certain types of lettuce, yeah.

K-pop popularity in France, you know, the list goes on and on. You've spot these things. Once you understand what pretty premium mediocre is, you spot them. The thing I always think of is the pumpkin spice latte at Starbucks. Pumpkin spice latte is right. Because it's like seasonal, it's exclusive, it's only available for a limited time. And it's just a fucking commodity. Like fast casual dining, like a lot of, you know, maybe Chipotle was like an early version of it.

Right. You know, but now, I don't know if you ever go to Kava. Like, oh, I love Kava. It's like this big chain restaurant that's supposed to be healthy Mediterranean. Yeah. It's premium. It goes on and on and on. So, but it's a fun concept.

He plays with it for a little while. But I love how the philosophical depth that he goes with it is really interesting. Very big a dash, yeah. His explanation is actually really interesting, which is that, you know, 100 years ago, 200 years ago, access to things was scarce, right? And so the way you improve society and the way you sold, things and made money is that you just got access to things. It's like, okay, we'll go dig up the oil and we'll sell it to you, or we'll go mine the ore and we'll sell it to you, or we'll grow

the lettuce and sell it to you. At a certain point, there became an abundance of stuff. And I think his argument is that as the first generation that grew up within an abundance of stuff, that the first generation, the millennials in particular, who were no longer impressed by simple access to scarce things because there is no scarce thing. Millennials demanded something else that felt scarce and special. And so what companies started doing is they started essentially putting like luxurious packaging on boring commodities. Mediocre products. Right.

So it's instead of just being a coffee with a little bit of pumpkin spice in it, it's an exclusive seasonal pumpkin spice latte with an extra dollop of, you know, serve the way you want it. because you deserve a special morning at Starbucks. It's got a little heart drawn. Your name's written on the cup. It's the most premium mediocre thing in the world. It is completely designed to feel like a special exclusive experience. And it's just a cup of mediocre coffee. And when you look around, you see this all over the place.

You see it at sporting events. You see it at VIP action. to certain concert venues. You see it, you know, being a... A premium economy seat on a plane. Yeah. Premium economy. That's a perfect example. It's the most premium mediocre seat on an airplane. You can, you see it in subscriptions to the things like magazines. You know, you can get the like the digital plus, which is essentially you're just paying more to have a piece of paper sent

to your door. Like it's the same thing you would have paid for anyway, but like, you know, they They just add a plus at the end of it and send you a bunch of emails and you're supposedly like having a more premium experience. It's, I think it's, I think it is both the cause and the effect of a lot of the jadedness of the 21st century. Yeah. It is the effect in the sense that humans crave scarcity because our perception of value is based on scarcity.

Of course. And so when most things in the world are no longer scarce, marketers, business people, they have to create a perception of scarcity. The problem is that people aren't dumb. And on some level, you know that the pumpkin spice latte or the avocado toast or the digital plus subscription to the New York Times. There's nothing premium about it. It's like the same fucking thing just with a fancy name put on it. and you there's a certain amount of cynicism that develops. Right. And he talks about that as well.

He does. Yeah. The most defining quality of the millennial generation is their cynicism. And it's like a lot of it is generated from this sense that everything is a little bit of a lie. Like nothing is actually what it was promised. Right. We know it but we're also playing along at the same time too.

Yeah. You place that out as well. And it's funny, I mean, they're, again, the list goes on and on, the premium mediocre vacations. It was funny. I was just in Spain on vacation. And there are whole sections of Madrid and Barcelona and Abiza that you might as well just put on Google Maps, like circle it and put on like premium mediocre tourist area. It's like everything is designed to feel exclusive and special and catered just to you.

and it's like people are just herded through like cattle. And things, premium mediocre things tend to be overpriced. I think that's another cause of the cynicism. Yeah, they slap a premium price on it. Yeah. Like there's this, there's a disconnect between the promised value and the actual value. Right. And I don't know.

I just, it's one of those things. I remember reading the article. I loved it. I was like, wow, that's so clever. And then as the years go on, I just keep seeing it more and more and more. I would argue we have premium mediocre politicians. Yeah. Yeah.

Like you, again, back, if you go back and watch debates of like, I don't know, Reagan and Bush or Clinton and Bush, you see very smart, educated, well-rehearsed men who clearly studied and thought deeply about policy and can explain their policy positions and argue against each other's policy positions. coherently, if you look at our politicians today, it's just a fucking word salad of emotions and essentially just telling us that we're special and they're special and we're all going to be special together because we're all premium mediocre together. Yeah, it just, it feels it feels ever present. Yeah. I would argue most media like Netflix, most Netflix shows are premium mediocre. Yeah. They are the same story regurgens. And it's not vegetated and new packaging that feels exclusive and special and unique But it's really just cliffhangers and hooks and audience manipulation

And movie theaters think about that modern movie theaters? Yeah Like now they have these like fancy seats and which aren't really that fancy they're not that fancy But you're paying like thirty dollars right right yeah Yeah, definitely premium mediocre we live in a premium mediocre world yeah yeah and I'm a premium mediocre girl in a mediocre world. Oh, God. Vak attach, though, he does connect this to like the larger kind of economic forces that are behind it. So he says, premium mediocre is, it's aspirational to some extent that too.

Even though we know it's mediocre, even though we're still participating in it and playing the game, it's aspirational. And we're trying to at least signal that, hey, we're trying. Yeah. Like, we might not be able to buy a house right now, but I can afford a nice pumpkin-spice latte and an avocado toast. But he also kind of winnows that down to a certain demographic, what he calls Maya millennial. Okay, he's got Maya millennial, Molly millennial, and Max Millennial.

They're kind of these three different segments. And Maya Millennials is all about the premium mediocre. She knows she's indulging in it and it's okay because one day she's going to have the real premium. Yeah. Right. Whereas like a Maya millennial, who he calls kind of like the artist wing of our generation and economic block, I guess, is kind of resigned to the fact that they're never going to be, you know, rich. So they're just going to, they're going to work at the coffee shop or art shop or whatever it is and do their thing. Right. Max, millennial, on the other hand, he went to Silicon Valley and he was trying to make it. And he's making premium mediocre products. Right. Backpacks, you know, or some piece of software that's supposed to, you know, whatever it is in some sort of. of premium mediocre packaging. I think, and I think he talks about this too.

I think the key characteristic of a successful premium mediocre product or service is that it effectively kind of doaps you. Like it signals to people that you are aspiring. You know, I think WeWork is a great example, especially since what's happened in the last five years. Yeah. WeWork is, it's literally just deaths. Yeah.

And overpriced real estate, right? Like, there was, like, nothing rational about that business model. Or new. Or new. Yeah. And everything that was promised and packaged around it, like, you're not just joining a co-working space. You're joining a community.

Yeah. And we're, like, striving together and we're going to build a new world and blah, blah, blah. It's, it's like the core of premium mediocre. But there was a hot minute, you know, probably three to five years where it was cool to be part of a we were, you know? And it's, it like signified of like, oh, man, he's got like a we work desk. Like he's working his ass off. He's grinding on weekends, you know?

Like it signals to people like you're on your way up. But ultimately it's a little bit of an empty lie. He's not trashing premium mediocre necessarily. Obviously there's problems with it. But he counts himself among the people who partake in premium medium. Of course. I do all the time too. And, you know, there's a difference between premium mediocre.

mediocre and middle class fancy that he talks about. And there's, you know, all of us have, you're going back to, we have these arcs that we kind of get into, these lanes we get into. And I don't think he's really necessarily trashing it. He's just pointing it out and observing it. And that there's larger cultural forces around it. That's his point. Absolutely. And I think it's like many things. It's not the issue. It's the lack of awareness around it. That's the issue. Like if you aren't aware of the game you're playing. Yes. Then the game is a problem. But it's not the issue. if you're aware of the game and it's and you like playing it, then play it. You know what I think is

a problem is the focus on creating all these products or services that are premium mediocre. So go back to the max millennial, you know, wants to be an entrepreneur and so and thinks he wants to take over the world by making a whatever it is, a backpack company or whatever it is. Sure. And I saw this, I think about this time. So this was 2017, I think, when this first post on this, he's posted about it a lot. But he started in 2017 posting about it. And about that time, I remember thinking, God, are we going to make anything useful? Like, you know, there's all these apps we're coming out, all these like weird products that were solving a very like minor problem in our lives or something that we're going

after some minor convenience. Yeah. And that was kind of a premium mediocre thing. You still see it today, though, too. You see it with, can we stop with the fucking headsets? Like, and the glasses. I was just thinking about the Vision Pro. Vision Pro and the meta, whatever they call it.

What's the meta of the... What do they call it? It starts with an O. Yeah, starts with an O. Jesus, whatever it's fucking called. But then they just came out the glasses too. You came out these like nerdy looking glasses like, these are high tech, cool.

I'm like, nobody wants this shit. Yeah. We want you to like solve some real fucking problems here. And I think that's the biggest drawback from the premium mediocre is that it's sucking resources. Well, it's an easy business model, right? Because you don't actually have to create. Yeah.

It's easier to create the perception of value than actually create something valuable. And I think we are at a place technologically where innovation in the physical world is just extremely difficult at this point and extremely costly. And whereas innovation and software is comparatively speaking relatively cheap. Right. And you can also package it in a way that feels like, you know, it's new and innovative and like, oh, here we'll put this bell and whistle. on it and, you know, it's basically the same meditation app you've had 20 times, but this one feels different. Yeah.

And it's a premium mediocre product and it probably makes a couple million dollars. Right. Such is. It is. I get that. I don't know. I'm grumpy about it, though. You grumpy?

No. No. All right. We'll be right back. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's Verde, Roja, or. or the orange one. For Jeff,

trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea, and milk. Habaniero, more like habanier, yes.

Save the everyday with Amazon. All right, we're back with our premium mediocre podcast. What's our premium mediocre question of the day, Drew? This is a premium mediocre question for sure, came in through YouTube as well. If everything we chase, like money, a partner, fame has benefits and cost attached to it, why chase anything at all? It's kind of a bullshit question, but I think it's one we do need to answer, yeah. I mean, I get it. So this is

something that I like to think of as the nihilist paradox, which is not caring about anything is still caring about something. Not chasing anything is chasing something. And you can't really escape that. And so my answer to this question is like, yes, there are costs and benefits to pursuing anything in life. There's also cost and benefits than not pursuing anything in life. So no matter where you go, there are costs and benefits.

That's just life. You can't escape it. It is the fabric of our experience existence. So you might as well pick something. Right. Pick something that you think the benefits outweigh the costs. And, you know, it's fun to get all philosophical and try to like find a loophole here or there. But it doesn't really work.

Yeah. Yeah, the drum you beat on to is you're always going to have pain. Everything. There's there's an associated suckage that comes with everything. Yes. Everything. Sitting around at home. You've said this before.

Sitting around at home doing nothing like you said, why tried anything? Well, that has cost to it. Yes. That's real cost. You're going to be in a lot of psychological pain from that and physical pain and your health is going to deteriorate. Working out at the gym though and eating right, that sucks too sometimes. Being lazy sucks.

Working hard sucks. Being healthy sucks. Being unhealthy sucks. Like just choose the suck you want to have. There's better forms of suckage though. Right. Choose the suck that you either think is worth it or you enjoy having. Because there is some suckage that you actually do enjoy having.

Like there's some, one of the ways I used to frame this question back in the day was, what kind of masochist are you, right? Because there's like, every, everybody has something in their life that they kind of enjoy the pain of it. They kind of enjoy the struggle. Yeah. And no matter what it is, like, you have to figure out, figure it out and then try to lean into it because that's where your advantage is going to be. Like, what's the thing that most people can't bear, but you don't mind so much?

follow that. Right. Do you think, too, this kind of modern form of nihilism that we do see in a lot of places, is that also like its own form? It is its own form of avoidance, too, right? Like we've just talked about earlier. Absolutely. This is also a form of avoidance.

Oh, nothing matters, so I don't have to try. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's an excuse. Yeah. It's a very philosophical excuse. You know, and it makes you feel smart. It makes you feel very smart.

It makes you feel like, nothing matters. Like you see something that nobody else sees. But here's the thing is if if nothing matters so why do anything, you could also say nothing matters. So why not do anything? Right, right. Like if nothing matters, do everything. Do everything. Yeah.

Like go, go accomplish all the things that you want to accomplish. Like go take all the risk. Try all the things. Build the stuff. Talk to the people. Like there's no reason not. to either. So you've no excuse. An idea I'm playing with that I'd like to bring up at some point in the near future probably too. We've talked a lot about how a lot of times we over-index on happiness.

Yes. Right. And so a lot of people will realize that. They're like, okay, I'm trying to be happy. Let's go for meaning instead. Yeah. And then you can over-index on that too. I heard it recently put this way that, you know, a lot of people, what we end up doing is we look for the meaning and fulfillment during the week and then we look for happiness on the weekends. Interesting. And it's just there's no balance to even be struck there because it's not the right formula or question even that we're asking. Yeah. Are we over indexing on meaning in a lot of ways too? I feel like we are.

I feel like. Is it possible to overindex on meeting? Yeah, I don't know. Going back to like the premium mediocre thing is meaning like a premium mediocre. Well, similar to happiness, it probably comes down to where you're finding it, right? Like, happiness itself is great, but you can find it in a lot of really terrible ways. Right. And so pursuing happiness for its own sake is not, that's not the goal.

And it shouldn't be the goal. And I think you could probably make the same argument about meaning. Like if, like, you can derive meaning in your life by, I don't know, compulsively posting photos and videos of yourself on Instagram, especially during concerts when you're standing next to fucking me. Like if that's where you're getting your meaning in your life, like that's not a really effective way of doing it. And it's, again, similar to happiness.

Some ways of pursuing happiness are more sustainable. They're more healthy. They have less social consequences. Same thing is true with meeting. There are ways to pursue meaning that are not sustainable. They're very short-lived. They have negative externalities. And they put you on a treadmill.

So I think if anything, what premium mediocre is pointing out is that marketers have found a way to give us little bite-sized pieces of meaning in very superficial ways. And that by itself can become its own kind of addiction. Yeah. Right? Like you feel like you need to be like part of the cool thing and try the new product and, oh, this brand's hot right now. And so it's like you get that becomes another treadmill. So yeah, my answer to you is yes. I do think you can over index for meaning.

But again, it's not like, it's not a question of too much meaning or too little meaning or too much happiness, too little. It's like where are you choosing to get it? Where are you finding it? I would agree with that. Tune in next week. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast. If you want to submit a question, you can email us at podcast, markmanson.

com. Join the newsletter. You can go to markmanson. dot net slash newsletter, send it out every Monday. It's free. Free advice. Every Monday. It's like it could be life-changing. Five minutes at the time too. Seriously. It takes five minutes to read. We have had, I think, over 12,000 breakthroughs from the newsletter. So next one could be you. Check out our premium mediocre newsletter. This is just going to go all day. I'm just going to put premium mediocre in front of everything. That's all, folks. Thanks for tuning in. We will see you next

The subtle art of Not Getting a Fuck podcast is produced by Drew Bernie. It's edited by Andrew Nishimura. Jessica Choi is our videographer and sound engineer. Thank you for listening and we will see you next week.