SOLVED with Mark Manson - Life-Changing Insights From Traveling To Every Country In The World (ft. Drew Binsky)

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Drew Binsky is a fearless traveler who's seen it all. From chatting with North Koreans in their homeland to dodging bombings in Somalia and volunteering in Syria in the middle of a civil war, Drew's adventures are nothing short of incredible. He's been to every country in the world, witnessing the most dangerous places and surviving a few close calls. Yet, his experiences have led him to a surprising conclusion: most people, most of the time, are good. Even in the direst circumstances, Drew finds that human resilience can prevail. In our conversation, Drew shares why he's drawn to war zones and failed states, revealing the profound lessons he's learned from them. We discuss why you should never judge a country by the news you hear about it, how the most impactful trips are often the most challenging, and where to find the friendliest people on Earth. Drew also offers his top travel tips on spontaneity, connecting with locals, and what he looks for on his travel adventures. It's a deep dive into the heart of travel and human nature that might just inspire you to see the world a little differently. Get 10% your first month of therapy at betterhelp.com/idgaf Let Rocket Money cancel your unwanted subscriptions at RocketMoney.com/idgaf Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, before we get into it, if you listen to the show, you probably consume a lot of personal growth content. The books, the podcasts, YouTube videos, all of it. And you've probably noticed the gap between knowing what to do and then actually going out and doing it. You've got the insights, but what you don't have is something that connects them to your actual life. That's why I built purpose. It's a personal development AI that learns you, your patterns, your blind spots, all the stuff that you keep circling back to over and over again. Instead of handing you another framework, it gives you specific personalized direction.

So check it out. You can try it for free for seven days. Go to purpose.app. That is purpose. If you could meet a North Korean, what would you say? If you were shot at in Somalia, what would you do? If you got attacked in the Congo, where would you go? Drew Binski has experienced all of these things.

He's a travel vlogger, a YouTuber, and an author. He has spoken to North Koreans in North Korea. He's eluded bombings in Somalia and visited sea. Syria during the height of its civil war to volunteer and help civilians. Drew has been to every country in the world. He has seen the most dangerous places and survived the most destructive regimes. And that makes his message all the more surprising. Most people, most of the time, are good and happy.

Most of them will help you even if they have nothing. According to Drew, human resilience and optimism has no bounds. Even in the worst places on Earth, you will still find a heavy dose of hope. has been one of the most important parts of my personal journey. I've not been to as many countries as Drew has, but I have found no better education on humanity and human nature than visiting as many countries as possible and trying to understand their cultures. It teaches you what you believed to be universal was actually merely your own cultural bias and the things that you thought were unique about your culture are actually kind of universal. It's one of the most

important things that I've ever done for myself and the education I got is still paying dividends today. And that's why when I had the opportunity to have Drew on the show and hear his stories, I took it. In this episode, you will learn why Drew is drawn to war zones, failed states, and impoverished countries, and what he's learned from all of them. Why you should never, ever judge a country or culture based on what you saw on the news, why the most impactful trips are rarely the most fun and why the most fun trips are rarely the most impactful. What Drew's favorite country in the world is, and which country had the biggest impact on him personally, why the real damage of war cannot be measured in death tolls or economic statistics

and why you never hear about the true repercussions in the headlines and where the friendliest people are in the world and how they became that way. Drew also shares some of his basic travel tips on how to be more spontaneous, how to connect with locals, what he looks for when he travels, and much, much more. So enjoy this one. It made me a little bit nostalgic to get back on the road myself, but more about that soon. This is Drew Benski. Let's get into it. Do you even podcast like brawl? This is the subtle art of not giving a fuck podcast with your host, Mark Manson.

Drew Bensky, thanks for coming to the show, man. It's pleasure. Nice to meet you. You as well. Yeah. Why don't we start with kind of a broad philosophical question? What is universal in the world that most people assume is not? It's a good question.

Everybody has a heartbeat and everyone's blood is red. So that's a lot of people like, aren't people different? Aren't you scared to go places? I'm like, everyone is generally friendly. So wherever you go in the world, people are going to look out for you. And that you hear about terrorism and you hear about things that bad people. But in general, like, people are dying to meet you. They just don't get the chance to meet you.

So that's kind of what I've realized from even like African tribes where you really don't have that much in common on the outside. But on the inside, they got to find food. They got to find a way to make money. They got to sleep somewhere. They got to send their kids to school. So that's kind of the main overarching thing that I've learned. It's like basic human needs and desire.

You don't necessarily realize that until you go to South Sudan and you're sleeping with a tribe and you're just like, whoa. And like they're just the little kids are playing around and they're punching each other. And it's like, yeah, it's the same thing that you do when you were a kid. Yeah, yeah. And it's really rewarding to see that. What would you say, you know, especially going these places where you're obviously a foreigner, what would you, like what percentage is the response immediately?

warm versus maybe tepid or skeptical or antagonistic. 99% warm. Wow. Yeah. Wow. The American thing, I don't really hide being American, maybe in some countries at certain times. I would avoid it. Like if I went to Russia right now, I don't know, I might say I'm Canadian, just to avoid, you know, extra questions.

But like Iran's a great example. They love America. They love. Absolutely love. love. And you would think that they don't like America or maybe the government, whatever, but I'm applying for my visa to go back for a third time. I really like it there. And they're super cool and they all have an uncle. I mean, we're in LA right now. I mean, there's like, there's a million Persians in Iran. It's the biggest Iranian influence outside of the country. But like,

that's a great example of this wrong misconception. If people just love American, ask you questions about it, they grow up on TV and music. To answer your question, 99% of people would positively, yeah. I actually ran into that in Russia as well. I mean, it's a little more polarized there, but I remember when I was in Russia, everybody, every Russian that I met was like so thrilled that I was, that I was American. And finally I asked a couple of them. I was like, like, our governments hate each other. We just went through like 70 years of a Cold War, you know.

And they were like, ah, it's like brothers. You beat each other up, but it's because you love each other. I was like, okay. Sure. Yeah, it's like that, though. I mean, that's not just Russia. It's other places too. Yeah.

Like here domestically, you know, the vast majority of us are not satisfied with our own government. We don't necessarily agree with all the things that our government does or stands for or says to other countries or other cultures. And so I think we forget that most people in the world are the same. Like they don't really agree with their government either. They don't like all the things that their government's doing either. Yeah. And when you turn on the news, you're only getting the negative stuff. Yeah.

Because that's how they get interest. from people and that's how they make money. The headlines are always negative. Yeah. I would say the one place that I went where I told them I was American that they were a little bit standoffish was North Korea. Yeah. I can speak a bit of Korean, so I was able to kind of like talk to them.

But it wasn't that they were like scared of Americans, but they just all they know about America is, you know, propaganda stuff. Yeah. And so they were just kind of like really shocked when I said I was American. But then I talked to them and one guy invited me to play tennis. So it's just like, they're just people. How did that come about, the North Korea's thing? I went on a guided tour in 2017, flew into Beijing, and then did a mandatory briefing,

and then spent three days in Pyongyang. And I'm one of the lost Americans until now to step foot in the country, because when I came back, if you can remember, Otto Warmbier, I was in North Korea when he was in labor camps, and I knew that was going on. Wow. And then as soon as I left North Korea, I was living in Bangkok, so I went back to Bangkok, and Otto went home to Ohio and passed away. And then that was the moment that President Trump banned Americans.

I don't know if he did, but Americans became banned to visit North Korea. until now. So I think I'm one of the last dozen or so Americans to step foot in North Korea. Were you aware of that before you went in? I knew I couldn't like break the rules. Didn't well yeah. Didn't that worry you? Like where do? It turned a mandatory briefing in Beijing and it's basically like the do's and don'ts, which is mostly don'ts. Yeah. And I just followed the rules and and I went. Yeah. Yeah. It was really interesting. Yeah. What stood out about it? It's dark and depressing and really isolated and a lot of the buildings,

like you would imagine are empty. There's like really tall hotels. There's like a hundred-story pyramid hotel in Pyongyang. If you've seen a picture of the skyline, you've seen it. And it's empty. It's weird. Wow. And the coolest part was I did a 10K in the marathon, Pyongi Marathon.

So it was like half foreigners and half North Koreans. I can't run a full marathon. But I just did that as an opportunity to like mingle with the people on the side, shaking hands, like talking a bit. So that was kind of cool. Did the people seem anxious or nervous to talk to you? Yes. Yeah.

Because I said like, Miuk Saddam Mimidda, which means I'm American. And that's the first time I opened up to them. And then they were just like really shocked to hear that. But then I just told them I lived in South Korea. They actually don't hate South Korea. Korea, before 1953, Korea was one country. And a lot of people don't know this.

But in the first few years after the Korean War, North Korea was thriving and South Korea wasn't. And then it switched in the 70s. So that's pretty recent. Like my grandfather was in the Korean War. They still have the same last names, like Kim Park, Chan. Like, it's very similar. Yeah.

And it's, well, you hear stories, too, of there's like siblings and cousins who were separated 60 years ago. Right. And, you know, haven't reunited or reunited the DMZ or stuff like that. But culturally, though, like, they're very similar. Yeah. The way they speak and, I mean, the language has evolved a bit, but, like, Kimchi and, like, the way they bow and the way they have respect for the elders.

and like that stuff's all the same. I could talk about career a lot, but I'm sure we got a lot. I'm sure we got a lot of stuff to go to. I got a question for you around. You mentioned that, you know, you followed the rules.

You learned the rules and you went and you followed the rules. And I think a lot of people are, you know, hesitant to go places because of safety issues and stuff like that. Obviously, you've put yourself

in some very dangerous situations. But it seems like you've really done your homework before. And I think that's kind of one of the antidotes to not being, putting yourself in dangerous situations is having that knowledge before and just following the rules.

What kind of preparation do you do when you go into some of these places? My answer might not be what you're expecting. I actually am pretty spontaneous and I kind of go with the flow. But that being said, I know I get in touch with the right local person, usually it's one person who's either a licensed tour guide or someone who's very familiar with traveling around the country and understands my mission, which is to document and tell stories. And I kind of put my trust into them and they, you know, show me a good time.

And this has worked in mainland Yemen, eight-day, road trip with one Yemeni guy, Afghanistan. I spent a month in Afghanistan and two different trips, Iran, Somalia, Pakistan, Congo. I don't go in completely alone. I go in, I travel solo to these places, like on the plane. I fly solo. And then at the airport, I'll meet up with a local person. And then I, you know, I trust, I've done my research due diligence with them through Zoom calls and asking questions and making sure they know the plan. And from then, I just, I'm just with them. and then trust that I'll be safe. And to this day, I've never been mug kidnapped, Rob in every country.

So I think that says something. How much does understanding the culture or the history or the politics play a role and just kind of understanding those dues and don'ts? That matters a lot. In some countries, like in Syria, where when you go there, I went there in 2019 and all the buildings were destroyed around me. And certain regions are off limits and some questions you can't ask to people. So I do have to know those things.

But I think the more I travel, the more I've realized, like, I pick up on social cues and I'm just good at like, I'm good in these situations. It's like, what's it called? What's it called? Polyglots. Polyglots, they say once you get past five, six languages, they become much easier because there's like certain cues in different languages that just make like. Just pattern recognition. It's kind of similar to that. It's like the more you visit war-torn countries or conflict zones, you kind of understand the layout of the land and how to approach it.

I wish I had a specific answer, but it's more of just like experience kind of helps with that. Yeah. Well, back to the trust thing, though, I've heard you do vet a lot of people on social media. You talk to them beforehand and stuff like that. You have to lead with trust in those situations, I'm guessing, and you just freely give trust. What have you kind of learned about human relationships through that? I guess it's crazy. You've already said 99% of people are warm and open to that. But when you lead with trust like that, I think there's even another level to it. There's trust until the trust is broken. And just very few times, maybe you can kind of on one hand, how many local friends are fixers that I like to call them, they help me out,

that they've steered me wrong, not dangerously, but it just wasn't, there wasn't a connection there. And at those points, I just would make an excuse or leave or find a way to get out of it. But a lot of these people are my followers, too, that have joined the journey since 2017, since I started making videos. So they know exactly what I'm trying to do, which is document, like cultures, get inside homes. And like, we talked about Bourdain, like, he's been inspiration for doing all this stuff. So just the way he can break bread with people and like sit down and have a conversation. And it's, it's all about the people. It's not about the nature or nature is cool, but I never, I don't even consider nature when I travel. Everyone's like,

isn't Switzerland the most beautiful? I'm like, personally, I'm like, I just think it's boring. I mean, there's not, I don't want to pick on. Apologies to the Swiss listeners right there. I don't want to pick on Switzerland. I was just, I was in Berlin yesterday and I was talking to Germans about this, but maybe I shouldn't pick on Switzerland. It's great to have nice nature. I mean, Switzerland's neutral, right? They'll be fine. They're neutral, but like, they're just really,

they're not so open to be filmed, and it's just more of like a private kind of culture, which you'll find a lot in Western Europe. But yeah, I travel for people, people stories. I want to know what, how people are living. What's their religion? What are they eating? Why do they do certain things, customs?

You mentioned earlier that you went to Syria either immediately, like during or immediately after the one? during. Okay. Yeah. What brought that about? Well, I was visiting every country. So that's a country. It was on the list. It was your next one on the list. You couldn't wait for the war to end? So getting, so getting the, this is a good story that I haven't told much. Getting the Syrian visa, it's in the book, was impossible for Americans and still kind of is, but now there's, there's a loophole that you can get it. So the only way I was able to get into Syria in 2019 was through a French,

a Christian French NGO. The founder of that was a follow. and he was like, hey, he DM me on Instagram. I was like, hey, I can help you get the, it's a volunteer visa. So it's not a tourist visa. Yeah. If you come to volunteer with our organization, we can get you into Syria. I said, sure. And it took like six months of back and forth paperwork, interviews, and finally I got the visa and I got it in Beirut, which is just a two-hour drive to the border.

And then I was able to cross overland. I still thought when I got to the border, they were going to deny me, but I got in. And so I went, the whole time, the whole 10 days I was in Syria, I was with this, Christian NGO. And I was volunteering a bit. And then I would go off and shoot my YouTube videos. And then I would go back. I was sleeping in bunk beds with all these French volunteers for this spreading Christianity. I'm Jewish. I'm in Syria. I'm in Syria with the Christian NGO, like trying to document Muslim culture or Arab culture. And I ended up traveling around the country with them. And it was really, it was really great. But that was the only way I could get in.

And I was just really curious to know what life is like in Syria. Because all the surrounding countries I love, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq. So I just had a really good time in Syria. What did you learn during that period? The people are resilient. Yeah. Even though, like, I was interviewing people and the background is just rubble, like just all the buildings are collapsed and they were just like, yeah, we're hoping for a better tomorrow. Like, I was inside of their shops that are just completely bombed, like a room like this, but everything's bombed. And, you know, some tears are shedding and they're just like, we can't wait for the country to rebuild. And that's, that's crazy. Yeah. You can say people are resilient around the world,

but I haven't seen resilience like that. Yeah. You know, where you're physically, like, in a place that you have to be stepping over giant, like, rocks just to get into the place. But Syrian people are really friendly. Like, before the war, it was thriving. It was a tourist destination.

Like, there's beautiful Mediterranean beach in Syria. People don't even know that there's beaches in Syria. Beautiful beaches, like crystal clear water. And food is great. I mean, it's Mesopotamia. It's the cradle of civilization, you know? So everyone knows that word in Mesopotamia because we studied it in third grade. Yeah, the breadbasket of the world.

It's like, I told my parents I was going to Iraq and they were like, be careful. And I said, I'm going to Mesopotamia. They're like, oh, that's cool. It's the same place. It's in Iraq. Yeah, yeah. Amazon presents Jeff versus Taco Truck Salsa, whether it's Verde, Roja, or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a full.

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Tuesday, April 28th and Wednesday, April 29th. Open your PC optimum app to get your coupon. We kind of touched on this already, but there is this media perception of these certain places, Syria and other places like that. What are some of the biggest gaps you've seen between the media portrayal and like your boots on the ground assessment of it? Because like for me, I've, I have a lot of deeply held beliefs about people and places I've never met, never been to. Recently, that's kind of been eating at me a little bit. And I was wondering if you could give some perspective on, okay, this is like, is there some horrible place we all think is a horrible place that isn't Syria?

might be one of them. What have you learned about that sort of thing? The media disconnect from reality. Afghanistan is a good example. But in general, to answer your question, the media usually has an agenda where they're talking about negative things. Very rarely you'll turn on CNN or whatever media and they're like sharing a positive story about a slice of culture in the Middle East. Afghanistan I've been twice. The most recent time was right before Taliban takeover. But I've had many friends go to Afghanistan since Taliban takeover and they told me it's very safe the Taliban are trying to push tourism for what it's worth. I'm not saying I support Taliban, but that's an example. I met a lot of Taliban and that's an example of a country that is

pretty safe. I would say as a tourist, like they look out for you. They're really hospitable people in Afghanistan. They will like break their knees for you to sleep in their house and offer you tea and stuff. And it's a beautiful, beautiful country. So that's one place I think that I don't think anyone's ever heard a positive story about Afghanistan. I was just going to say, there's still a reaction in me, but I'm like, no, that's bullshit.

But I mean, I believe you, but there's still like this visceral reaction to that. I've made 14 videos in that country and I hope to go back, but almost all of them

have been positive just about different places and cultures and it's just like, I met the last Jew in Afghanistan. He left now, but there was one Jewish person left and he runs a synagogue in Kabul. And that was like one of my favorite stories

of every book. He ran a synagogue in Kabul? There's a synagogue in Kabul? With one Jew in the whole country. Yes, and he keeps orthodox. So he was the only one who would go to the,

synagogue or yeah so the rabbi that he communicates with is in toshk and Uzbekistan the next country over okay and yeah he keeps all kosher and all the holidays and stuff but he he now left the country so there's now zero jews left in Afghanistan but that was one that was one of my favorite stories I told but there's so many little corners of that country that's there's 35 million people there like that's a lot of people yeah it's almost a what California is 50 million yeah so 80% of the population of California that's Afghanistan yeah that's crazy when you think about That is wild. Yeah.

I like it. You brought up a point that I've definitely found to be true as well, which is the worst, the reputation of a place, the more the locals almost overcompensate for that. Yeah, true. Like they, they, like we just got back from El Salvador. We were talking about before we went live doing a YouTube video on it. And it was the same down there. It was like, everybody was like, oh my God, Americans are here.

Like roll out the red carpet. This is our chance to make a good impression, you know? It used to be really dangerous up until a few years ago. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, highest murder rate in the world six or seven years ago. And it's become very safe now. And the video will be about kind of that transition. But to your point as well, you know, about the resilience, there were a number of people

that we talked to down there. You know, I would kind of, I was asking them questions about the changes. And I would say like, oh, you must be really happy now. And I remember there was this one old woman. And she said, we've always. been happy. She's like, even when the gangs were killing everybody, we were still happy. It's just now we're safe. And I was like, too-shae. The story, I can't wait to watch your video, by the way. When's it coming out? Probably July. Okay. Yeah. The video that's coming out tomorrow,

my YouTube channel is from the biggest favela in Sao. Oh, nice. I went there two months ago, and similar, like, people were like kissing my feet that I came as an American. And I was kind of, I've been around Brazil, but not Sao Paulo and not the favelas. And I just went with a local friend and we just walked through the streets and that was really interesting. But the people were smiling, happy. Like, the police are too scared to go to this place because they will get shot at.

Yeah. And so gangs and drug lords run this place. Yeah. It's called Perisopolis. And, but I found people to be really funny. And they kept telling me they're like, they're like, everyone around you right now is like involved in crime and stuff,

like kidnappings outside of the, outside of the favela. Inside the favela, what's going on, guys? How are you doing? Really friendly, like looking after. They don't want to commit crime in their own place. Right. everyone knows each other. I thought that was really interesting. It's like a bubble of safety in this place. But these guys are all criminals outside the favela. But I was talking to them like

face-to-like this, asking them questions about it and they're open about it. It was crazy. Yeah, the favelas in Brazil, I'm going to ask my wife about that. She's from South Paulo. Oh, okay. And I lived down there for a couple of years. Oh, you did. Nice. Do you know Perisopolis? I've heard of it. I've been to a couple of favelas in Rio. And yeah, it's a wild dynamic. Like it's kind of a, there's almost, especially during carnival, like there's all these, these parties up in the favelas. And it's almost like, it's kind of like when an armistice is called. You know, you hear stories like World War I where the French and German soldiers played soccer on Christmas. Like, it feels like carnival is that in the favelas? It's like, okay, we're all, no crime for a week. We're all just going to hang out and have parties together. And then we'll get back to robbing you next week. Yeah. That's kind of what it's like, though. They're really kindhearted people in Brazil in general. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Super warm. Yeah. Yeah. So. I agree with what you just said. The world is a funny place, man. It's like, it's...

Where else have you lived, by the way? So I was nomadic for seven years. Cool. So I spent about a year and a half in Southeast Asia, mostly in Thailand, but also Vietnam. And lived in Brazil for two years. Spent four years in South America, primarily Brazil, which is where my wife's from, but also Columbia and Argentina. And then a little bit in Europe, here and there.

Nice. Russia, UK, Germany for a little while. Cool. It was amazing. I mean, it's like one of the best things I ever did. Yeah. Is live abroad and just travel and explore. I was nomadic for about seven, eight years in Asia.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Any young person, it is one of the, I mean, anybody, but like, especially if you're young, because it's easier when you're young. Sure. You know, it's the best thing you can do.

It's the best thing you can do. It is. It's the best education. Yep. Like, it's, to this day, it's still paying dividends. I actually, it's interesting. I've had this conversation with my publishers. My books have been, I think, number one in like 13 or 14 different countries.

And I've talked to agents and publishers and they're like, this is kind of, this is crazy. Like the international appeal, they're like usually it's just the English market and maybe one or two other languages or maybe it's, you know, here. Like there'll be like one random market like Japan, it takes off. But I really attribute that to the amount of time I spend abroad because these questions of like, what is you know, that most people don't realize is universal. And then like what is actually particular to American culture that most Americans don't realize it's particular. Like that I think in a nutshell,

that is informed a lot of my career success. It makes sense though. Like I grew up sheltered in America like probably all of us did. I went to University of Wisconsin. I was in a fraternity. I was living in a frat house and I loved that life. But I didn't know of, I thought that was just normal. It was normal.

Sure. But then. In Wisconsin, yeah. Yeah, it's great. But then I studied abroad in Prague, and then I taught English in Korea for two years, and then it just totally shaped my world, like what we're talking about.

And then when I come back home, you know, things are pretty much the same here, but what's in your head is different. Right. And I just think that people should travel more. It just makes you more wise, well-rounded, respectful, and understanding of how people live,

which is really important. And I would say it is clarified. I feel like I've, a much clear and better relationship with the United States. Same. For living abroad. Because you come back and you, now you actually, like, now I feel like I actually know like what's good in the US and what's not good in the US.

Whereas, you know, I think it's easy to get caught up in all the political narratives and news media narratives and stuff. And a lot of that stuff is just like way off base. I agree completely. Completely. And the US is great, by the way. It is. It's huge.

Yes. It's massive. It's almost bigger than Europe, I think, if you can, you can, completely, completely, I think if you include Alaska in size, it's bigger than Europe, 50 states, 64 national parks, which are all beautiful. There's a lot going on here. I know we're like a world power and we have influence on the world, but if you forget about that and just think about as a destination to travel, you can get in a car and just freely drive anywhere and it's pretty great. That's what I always say too, people are like, why don't Americans travel? I'm like, first of all, that's the main reason why,

because we can travel anywhere within America. But like Arizona, Utah, Colorado, California, If you're driving those states, it's some of the best in the world. It's probably the best road trip in the world that circle. I live in Colorado. You do? I agree with that. It's so great. Love Colorado.

And we do take that for granted because we just, you know. It wasn't until I moved to the U.S. with my wife. And she was like, I want to do road trips. And I was like, oh, really? Like, you know, as someone who grew up in America, I was like, really a road trip? And then we ended up doing it. We did a road trip through the Western U.S. It was fantastic.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. It's so good. So it's gorgeous. Yeah. And I always tell people to just road trip the West. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaking of which, what would you say what trip was the most transformative for you? India. So after I left Korea, I lived in Korea for two years teaching English. I was 24 single. And I had a goal to visit every country in the world. I was at about 50 at that time. And I said, India, I'm in India yet. Three months solo backpacking flew to India.

And I did, started in Goa. Have you been India? Yep. Okay, starting Goa in the south, kind of south. And then I basically took buses and trains all the way up through Rajasthan. So I did like all the western and northwest, not all. India's. I've been seven times and I still, there's so much, so many places to go.

But yeah, a lot of the central and western India and northwestern India. And I just learned a lot about myself. You know, I was on a shoestring budget. I wasn't making much money. I think I was spending a thousand a month, including accommodations. and food, which is pretty decent, I think, for India. You can get a lot of things for a little bit of money. And yeah, I just think my true colors came out,

and I was by myself, so, and I wasn't making YouTube videos at this time. I was blogging. I used to have a travel website. It was called the Hungry Partier.com, and I basically about food and nightlife around the world. So I was like partying in India. I went to a Switchfoot concert. Do you know that band?

Switch foot in Mumbai at the Hard Rock, Mumbai. I don't think I've ever told that to anyone. until right now. This just never came up. I went to a switchfoot concert, met a lot of cool people. And unfortunately, I got in a bus crash in India

and two people died on the bus. It was towards the end of my trip. And so to this day, I don't take like overnight buses to get places. That's a dark story. But yeah, I learned a lot in India and I got food poisoning three times,

like severe food poisoning. I lost like 15 pounds on the trip. But I've been back to India six more times since then and I'm going to go back probably again at the end of this year. There's so many stories in India. I always answer that question with India as well. And it's, for me, it's the extremity.

Yes. Like, I actually wrote an article about it many, many years ago. And I think what it is is like you can have one of the most beautiful experiences in your life on one street corner, walk two blocks down the street, and have one of the most horrifying and disgusting experiences of your life. And it's on the same street. And it's like the same afternoon, the same place. I have a specific example of that in Agra, which is the most beautiful.

building in the world, Taj Mahal. I saw that morning, I saw, I was driving there and I saw a dead person in the street. Yeah. And there wasn't even like police there to ambulance there. It was just a dead there. There was people surrounding them. I don't know how the person died, but I saw it with my eyes a dead person on the street. And then an hour later, I was at Taj Mahal. Yeah. You're absolutely right. Yeah. It's, it's everything, everything all at once. I don't know. Yeah, everything everywhere. Everything everywhere at once. And it's like, you get a lot of attention to and they speak English. A lot of Indian speak English, the majority of them, I think. And so they'll come up to you on the street and ask you questions. Not much concept of space. So they'll be right here talking to you. And they're

friendly people, very friendly, but there's a lot going on. And as you said, like, you'll see it all. In one day, you'll see everything. Yeah. And incredibly hospitable, but then there's also a lot of, for lack of a better word, like scams. I spent about six weeks there and it was probably at least once a week either to me or somebody like at my hostel or somebody I was traveling with like, you know, we would just get sold something. Yeah. That didn't exist. You know, it'd take you a few hours to figure it out. And then you're like, oh, oh, God damn it again. They're very smart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always say like India is my favorite and least favorite country in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Love-hate relationship. It's, it's tough. I've like wanted to take my wife for a long time.

But I always tell her, I'm like, this is not going to be an enjoyable trip. This is a trip to learn about yourself and learn about the world. There are going to be days where you're like, what am I doing here? Yeah, I took my wife there, and we had a good time overall, but it's tricky. It's intense. It's really intense. I do recommend everyone to go to India. It's incredible.

You learn so much about yourself, about the world. It's the most populous country in the world. It just passed China like a few months ago. That's crazy. It's a third the size of the U.S. with five times the amount of people. Which if you've been to downtown Delhi, that's not surprising. No, it's not.

There's like people stacked on top of people on top of people. But it is an incredible place. Shout out to all the Indian listeners. Yeah. A lot of them. And yeah, one day I'll go back too. Yeah. There's a lot of stories to tell there, man.

Yeah. As you know. It's a wild place. Do you ever worry that you're getting desensitized to this stuff? Like after enough war zones? Like maybe you're like the thing that's protecting you just kind of like gets numbed. I think there's something like that. Yeah.

I think I just don't, I don't phase that things, situations. I don't know what, like, gene that is, if it's a genetic thing or not. So that's always been there, or do you think you've gotten less, like, were you fearful the first time you went to a war zone? No, so I guess it has always been there. Like, when I was a kid, I never went to war zones. I don't know what that, having no fear thing is. I'm sure that's something you've tried to unpack throughout your career as storyteller as well.

Is that a gene? I personally think so. Yeah. I think some people, you hear it a lot from, like, military. military guys or like that free solo climber. Yeah, Alex Honnold. Yes, yes. There's a circuit that's just like not there. I just yeah. I don't know what it is, but a lot of people ask me that there. Aren't you too scared to go here and like Mogadishu is the most dangerous city in the world? That place is crazy and I'm happy to talk about it. But I went in there just just hanging out.

Yeah. I mean, it's crazy out there. What happened there? How did that happen? I went to Somali land, which is an unrecognized country. It's the northern part of Somalia. I wanted to go to real Somalia, so I went to Mogadishu. And, um, just to leave the airport, like the hotel picked me up, but they had a convoy of like a pickup truck in front, a pickup truck behind all bulletproof, bulletproof blackout windows. And there were four guys in bulletproof vests

and big automatic weapons on each, on each, like the bed of the truck. They were on each corner. So there were eight guys. And then us in a Jeep blacked out windows. And then every time we'd have to get out of the car, for the three days I was there, anytime I would get out, all the eight guys would scope around

and look over every fence. like, and then they would be like, okay, he can come. And I had like 10 minutes to go anywhere and then I have to go back in the car. That's how dangerous it is. Wow. There's kidnapping's attacks. I stayed in the Hyatt and two months after I left, the whole hotel was bombed and like 40 people died in that, in that hotel. Jesus Christ, dude. I have a selfie in this like ice cream shop in the lobby of the Hyatt and like I saw a picture of that ice cream shop and it's gone. So it's just a crazy place, Mogadishu, unfortunately. Do you worry that like, I mean, because a certain amount of that is just luck, right?

Yeah. Like there's a small chance that something really goes sideways. Yeah. Each time you go to one of these. There is. There is. Yeah. I don't really worry.

Yeah. Is there an adrenaline rush to it? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. The moment I get off the plane until the moment I'm gone, there's adrenaline. I think that that's what I'm hooked on. Interesting.

But I get adrenaline knowing that this is a place almost nobody goes to, no Westerners go to. And the fact that that's, that I can document it and post a video that will probably get millions of views is really special that I can be a messenger for that part of the world. Right. I'm sure you feel that too. Yeah, but dude, I'm not going to Mogadishu. Let me know if you want to go. I can connect you. You can hook me up. You can hook me up. What's the most dangerous place that you've been or that you felt? Oh, that's a good question. I got really drunk and fucked up one night and went to the wrong part of Cardahana. And it was actually, I actually lucked out because...

Did you go to that Cuban bar in Cartagena where they served mojitos? It's like a dance salsa bar. Super cool. You don't remember. Okay. All I know is I went to the wrong spot. And it was funny because I lucked out because there was a Colombian guy there who had studied in the U.S. Okay.

And so when my friend and I got out of the taxi, this guy immediately walked out to us. And he was like, he was like, what are you doing here? Are you guys American? What are you doing here? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, you can't be here. Oh, God. You have to go.

And I was like, no, man, like, it's cool. I speak Spanish. I was drunk as fuck. And I was like, it's cool. I speak Spanish. And he's like, no, no, no, no. You have to go. Don't understand like this part of town.

You cannot be here at night. Wow. And, uh, it was like two in the morning or something? Yeah, it was two in the morning, something like that. He put us back in the taxi, sent us back to the old town, which is the tourist part. Yep. And the taxi started driving outside of town. Oh, that's my biggest fear.

Start driving the opposite way, which when you live in Latin America, you hear stories like this of like you get dumped in some random place. They take all your shit. That's exactly my biggest fear. And they potentially kill you or they just leave you out in the middle of like the Colombian jungle. And so anyway, I started realizing what was happening. I told my friend who didn't speak Spanish. I said, this is what's happening. Like get ready.

I took a credit card out of my wallet and put it in the bottom of my sock in the bottom of my shoe. I told my friend, I said, whoever we get dumped in front of, just give them everything, don't fight, don't argue, don't run away, like just hand everything over. Completely mentally prepared for it. And then we came across a police checkpoint.

And the police stopped the car. Really? Random. Complete random police checkpoint. Cop stopped the car, asked the taxi where he was going. He like said some bullshit place. The cop was like,

who's in the back seat? taxi's like, oh, just some friends. Wow. And he's like the, and then the cop was like walked over. Yeah. And he was like, and you told him what's up? Yeah. And I was like, I don't know where I'm going.

I'm American. And the cop was like told the taxi driver, like turn around right now, go back to go back to town. That's crazy. Yeah, dude. But I don't want to do that again. You don't get adrenaline thinking about that story? Dude, I'm like, I'm getting,

my hands are getting sweaty, just telling that story. That's a great story. Yeah, yeah. I mean, one thing that I kind of mentally did, and I'd actually be curious to hear if you did the same thing, is when I decided I was going to live in Latin America long term, and especially once I married a Brazilian, like it, you know, I'm probably going to spend at least a few weeks in Brazil for the rest of my life, every year for the rest of my life. I really just came the piece with it of like, it's inevitable. Yep. I'm going to get robbed or mugged or pickpocketed at some point, probably multiple times. Every single Brazilian friend I have has been robbed.

some in more horrifying circumstances than others. So I really just made peace with it of like just setting expectation of like this is going to happen. It's kind of like a tax of making this, like choosing to have this life. Right. Like, you know, part of the tax is just I'm going to be robbed like once every 10 years or so. And that's fine. It's good to set that in your mind. So when it does happen, it's not so shocking.

You're not freaking out about it. Yeah. Like you can mentally prepare. I think that's important. For sure. I think that's something that I do is like if I get thrown behind bars or if something happens, like I know that that's a possibility, especially in Western China. I know that could happen.

Yeah. And I'd like to think I'd get out of prison, but maybe there I might not. I was almost the next Brittany Griner. Remember when she was held in Russia? So I was detained on the border of Russia and North Korea like weeks before Russia attacked Ukraine, like two weeks before. And there was already talk about it happening. And they love to have.

I was an American on the border and they helped me for three hours. They stripped me of my phone and my friends had to be outside and they asked me every question I've ever been asked. And if they wanted to, they could have kept me. And then the war broke out right then. So then I would have been that political pawn that Brittany Griner was. Wow. It was like this close.

I've got a series. I want to play a quick game of overrated, underrated. Okay. And this is, let me set the context for this. So I'm going to ask you, I'm going to give you a list of things. this is tell me if they're overrated or underrated in terms of the quality of life for like an average citizen in the country. So the first one is government, overrated or underrated.

Overrated. Overrated. Why? I guess I might change my answer. I feel like it's probably properly rated at the extremes and then. then overrated for everybody else. Like if you're in North Korea, obviously, the government is, like, the most influential thing. Or you need government to have rules and laws. Otherwise, everything would be anarchy. Like, there would be nothing. There would be nothing. So it's a tricky one. Like,

the average person in Iran or the average person in... They hate their governments, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like Afghanistan or Korea or Australia. Like, how much influences the government actually have on their day-to-day life? Like, for women, They have to wear hijab, so is it? But I think that's changing now with the whole Masaamini thing, but there are like certain rules that they have to do, but like they all bad mouth the government and they wish it wasn't the case.

But that being said, they still have to follow a certain standard. Yeah. In a place like Iran. Yeah. So I think the government is just there and they, it's something they don't want to think about, but it's this rules that they have to follow. But I think that they'd much rather,

like, Iranians are not religious. I think like, I was there in Ramadan, I think 80%, 8-0 do not fast. Wow. Isn't that crazy? Even though all the restaurants are closed, you know, the Islamic Republic of Iran, which is the official name of the government,

they will make it feel like it's super religious and close all the restaurants until nighttime, but the people, they're just eating, you know, undercover. So that's one example of like, yeah, the government's there and present. But like I'm trying to think like... But that would kind of be an argument of that it's overrated, right? It would be an argument.

That's why... But I said overrated, but then I thought about other countries and I was like underrated. So it's like this weird... it just depends on what country you're in. Yeah. It's really tough. Like in Africa, like, there's a lot of bribery and stuff,

and that's a whole different conversation. But I paid a lot of bribes just to cross land borders for no reason. Yeah. It's just like, in order for you to get from Sierra Leone to Liberia, in order to cross that border, you need to pay $300. And so I pay $300. And that's to a policeman with a gun and to the policeman. And it probably has nothing to do with the government.

It has nothing to, no. It's just he happens to be stationed at the border. Yes, yes. Correct. So maybe that's not related to the conversation because it's not the government. Yeah. So the government maybe doesn't have as much authority in those places. It's a hard question. It's a really hard question because I keep thinking of one country and then I'm switching my answer to think of another country.

And I was just in Japan two months ago. That country just works. Everything works in Japan and Korea. East Asia. Taiwan. I love Taiwan. Yeah. Things work so well there. There's like no poverty. Everyone seems to be having a good lifestyle, good jobs. It's clean. It's clean. It's clean. it's safe. Everyone looks after each other. But is that the government? I would already, so. Or the culture or the government.

Yeah. I was so like one of the next ones I was going to ask is culture. I personally think culture is vastly underrated. Yeah. Because I would say East Asia, it's cultural. I agree. It's built into the culture to be respectful to take care of your elders to look after each other.

I think in the U.S., not to pick on the U.S., but we're not that family-oriented as a culture. And when we're 18, we get the fuck out of our house. in other cultures, that does not happen. They're like, we'll live at home. Almost most of the rest of the world, they'll live at home and be really close to their family. And maybe when they get married, they'll go live off.

But I feel like that's missing here. I wish that people were more closely, you know, I'm really close to my parents. They're here now in L.A. I really love spending time with them. And anytime I get the chance to share a meal or take them on a trip, I'd do it. But, yeah, do you agree with that?

It's funny. I think that cuts both ways. So I agree with you. There is something nice about how much emphasis is put on family in a lot of cultures, particularly like Latin cultures, Asian cultures. At the same time, I have seen so many people who, so much enabling of just, I'm going to sound like, God, I'm going to sound like such an American. You are American, so you're sending you.

Get ready for it, everybody. Here comes the American in me. I've seen a lot of enabling, like when I've lived in those countries and lived in those cultures, I've seen a lot of enabling of what would otherwise be like a really, like self-actualized person. It's like, well, mom and dad are always going to take care of them. So they just stay at home until they're like 35 and they never really like, you know, try to like try hard at their job. And they don't like, don't really. That does exist.

Yeah. And so it kind of like, it creates complacency. And it's, you know, I look at the. the way I grew up and let me just say I've gone both ways on that like when I first lived in Latin America I was like wow it's so great they put like such an emphasis on family and then like as the years went on I was like well wait a second maybe maybe the fact that like nobody works very hard like has something to do with the fact that like mom and dad are going to foot the bill for everything even when you're like 40 years old and so why is that a bad thing though for them

is it yeah I don't know maybe they'd be thrilled to have that life it's I just think it comes Back to like the US is very innovative and entrepreneurial because of these things. Yes. When I was 18, I moved to Wisconsin. I didn't know anyone and I just figured out how to do my own laundry and be, but at an 18-year-old. Totally. And that helped guide me to live this lifestyle that I live now because of that. Absolutely.

So I agree. I mean, it's, you get very much into kind of this like subjective what is a good value and what's a bad value. Everything's just a trade-off. And when you look at, say, loneliness, day-level. or mental health data, these countries that have like really strong emphasis on family, their data is not nearly as bad as ours is. You know, part of, part of our mental health crisis is that we are so atomized and

independent and alone and isolated from each other all the time. We're overworked, overstressed. And that's not a good thing. That's not a good thing. So it's a trade off. Like it's like pick your poison. Whereas, you know, some of these other countries like there's a lot of people live in abusive dynamics.

Sure. There's like fucked up family dynamics. there's all sorts of stuff that happens. So I don't know. Like it's really complicated. It's not like there's an answer. Like, this is better, this is not better. It's just cool to analyze it from a global perspective.

Yes. Think about these things. Yes. You know. Mark, you have this idea that the best and the best thing about a place is usually also the worst thing about a place too. I think you would agree with that too. This is my pet theory is that, is that, yeah, the best thing about a country is also

usually the worst thing. So like, the best thing about the U.S. is if you want to work hard and make money, you can do it here. It's the best place to do it. The worst thing about the U.S. is everything revolves around working hard and making money. Right.

That's true. Best thing about Brazil is the people are just fun-loving, you know, best parties, beach, beaches, barbecues, everything. Worst thing about Brazil is everybody just wants to party. Go to the beach, have a barbecue. Interesting. That's a good point. I never thought about it like that.

But you can kind of run through it with everything, you know, whether it's Japan or China or India. I think what it is is that it tends to be, you know, the most extreme traits about a culture tend to define both its advantages and disadvantages. Sure. That's interesting, man. Yeah. What about war?

Yeah, war hit me some daggers here. I mean, it's underrated if you live in the country that the war is happening in. Yeah. If you live in Ukraine, I mean, that's, I'm trying to go back to Ukraine in this summer, if I can. but if you live in a country that war, like in the U.S., we don't have war on the ground in the U.S. Yeah. That's a big deal. If you live in Ukraine, you are worried that your buildings are going to be destroyed right now.

But in the U.S., we never have to worry. And 9-11 happened, but since then, I don't know, you can fact check me, but it's not like there's big attacks happening in the U.S. often. There's shootings. That's something different. But we're talking about war. I think it's underrated for people living in those kinds of. because they really, really have to worry about things happening.

I'm interested in maybe like the dynamics of that of like physical danger just versus like psychological stress because yeah one thing that I've heard, I've never been to a war zone. But one thing that I've heard is that the majority of a war zone, nothing's actually happening. Like the majority of Ukraine, there's no bombs dropping. Ukraine is huge. But the anxiety that people live with every single day of like, you know, Oh, I've got to go to Kiev to, like, go see my cousin.

Like, that becomes a terrifying thing. That's why I said underrated for those people, because it's always a looming threat in your head and you can't not think about it all day long. I don't know that from just going to war zones and talking to people. So, I mean, there's not that many war zones, active war zones in the world right now. So that's a good thing. Yeah. Overall, as a global culture world, historically speaking, historically speaking, I think wars are at a low point,

which is a great thing. But yeah, it's tricky. If you don't live in a place that there's, like in Canada. Yeah. Sometimes I say I'm Canadian, just to be funny, but like, no one has any beef with Canada. You can't have beef with Canada. What are you going to hate Canada for? I think a lot of places in the world are living just normalizes and they're not thinking about war happening, which is good.

But for people that are living in war zones, it's really tricky and I feel really bad for them. It really sucks if you're in war zone and you have to, you're a refugee and you have to, you're a refugee and you have to, to leave your own country. Yeah, I don't know. I worry sometimes, like, especially with how fast everything is these days, how quick news cycles are, how quick our attention spans are getting all the social media feeds and everything. It feels like we're forgetting quicker. Maybe, and maybe part of it's I'm just becoming that, like, cranky old man that like, it's definitely part of it. I don't know, like, I look at, I look at some of the narratives around some of the the geopolitical issues today,

and it's just like shocking the lack of historical context that people don't have. So yeah, I don't know. That's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. So you think we're all screwed in the future, like the way we're heading? So, you know, media evolves, right? Like from books and newspapers to TV and radio

and now to the internet and social media, right? And again, there are tradeoffs with each. And I think what concerns, me is that social media is, it's extremely good, like our current media environment, I think we have access to more information ever before. So you are able to know a tiny bit about more topics than ever before. So I think like in our parents' generation, our parents would probably know a decent amount about a few topics and then nothing about everything else. Whereas today, everybody knows a tiny bit about hundreds and hundreds of different topics. but so it gives you the illusion of being informed when you're not informed at all.

Interesting. And so I think there is more discourse and wider discourse around almost every issue, but the quality of each discourse has gotten much worse. Like, dude, have you ever gone back and watched like a PBS special from like the 80s? It's so smart. It's so fucking smart and nuanced. Like go watch like an old Charlie Rose program from like 1985 or like, see, an old Carl Sagan thing, I'm like blown away. It's like college level lectures, you know, delivered on cable TV. And that was the only thing that they had. They weren't able to Google it. They could talk to their friends about it. Yeah. That was it. That was it. So it's not to say that like,

oh my God, we should go back to the 80s. I'm just saying that like we've made this tradeoff, just based on our media ecosystem. We've made this trade off, whether we're aware of it or not, of like we've basically traded in a quality of information on a small number of topics for low quality information on every topic, every topic imaginable. And I think that is repercussions, especially in our politics. Like I think we're seeing that repercussion in our politics and the narratives that go on around it.

I'll put my soapbox away now. No, that's good. It's interesting to think about these things, really is because I don't always think about them, but that's very true. You could have made the argument, though, that it's also good to know what, be aware of what's happening. Right.

in many different parts of the world. But yeah. It's, it's, it's, you don't want people to be completely naive, but then sometimes it's like, knowing a tiny bit in some ways is,

is worse than knowing nothing because if the person who knows a tiny bit doesn't realize they only know a tiny bit. They think they know everything. So they think that they think they're informed. Anyway, what's curious to me too is that this dynamic seems, it seems to be really affecting a lot of countries and cultures. And then some other countries and cultures seem to be kind of

into it. Right. But I have no idea why that is. So you hit your goal of visiting every country. You've got a book about it. Yeah. You've got the YouTube channel. Yeah. Like, what's next? That's the grand question. Yeah. I want to keep telling stories at a higher level, which means just getting myself becoming a better storyteller interviewer, just kind of diving deep around to certain topics that I want to talk about. And I have a great team who helps me edit the videos and, you know, we work together and we really just all try to tell the best stories. And I want to elevate that. So our stories have gotten longer over time, which is a good thing. It's if you can hold an audience for a longer, especially on YouTube. As you know, if you can hold an audience longer, it's better.

But I'm not focused on the destination. I'm more focused on the story. So I don't really care where I go. I just want to tell impactful stories. They generally lead me to places like, you know, Somalia or wherever, Iran, Turkmenistan. I'm trying to go back to those two. Western Sahara. I just got my visa. So generally I'm in places like that, but I just want to tell good stories. Last two questions. What do you give too many fucks about? Golf. I'm like a massive golfer. It's my alter ego and I don't talk about it publicly because people think it's so boring. But I really, I was at the master's. I like, I'm obsessed with golf and I try to play in all countries. Okay. Best golf course in the world? The best course is probably Augusta where the master's is. But the best course I've played is

a course called Sackam Tuiam Llam golf course in Vietnam. Okay. It's the most pristine, beautiful. Yeah, Vietnam's so good. We didn't talk about it on this podcast. What part of Vietnam? It's near DeLat. It's in central south of Vietnam. Okay. Yeah. It's a great country all across the board. It's such a, I love Vietnam. I used to live in golf course. I never would have thought. I lived in Central area for eight months and it's a really beautiful place. Nice. But yeah, was that the answer you wanted? Or was it any answer? It can be any that. There's no right or wrong here. It's the only time I have four hours uninterrupted. I put my phone away and I just focus on golf.

And it's really good to have that for anyone else. Find your golf. So whether it's hiking or whether it's fishing or, you know, BMX motorcycle, like whatever you can do that just kind of, you know who Peter Atia is? Yeah. He did a, I was at a YouTube retreat in Montana with Mr. Beas and a bunch of creators and he spoke and he talked about this a lot. He's like, everyone needs to find that thing, activity that can turn your brain off

and you're just focused on a game. Yeah. Everyone needs that. And for me, that's golf. And I really have grown to love it more because of that. Yeah. You know? That's awesome.

And everyone's like, you should create a golf channel, which I did at one point. And I'm like, no, then it's going to ruin. It's going to ruin. It's going to ruin the golf is right. So, yeah, I think everybody should try to find something that they can do that they don't even think about their phone. They don't think about texting someone. Don't think about work.

It could be going for a walk, but if you go for a walk, then you're thinking about. It has to be like an activity, a reaction sport. Someone throws a baseball at you. All you can think about is catching the baseball. So whatever thing that would be for you. I do woodworking. That's great. That's a perfect example.

You better bring it to or else you're going to cut your finger off. It's a reaction thing. You can't, you can't not think about working. Yeah. You know? I think that's really, this is really important thing. It is. It's super important.

I'm really stressed all the time. My lifestyle, always anxious, going into war zones, even though I play it off cool. I'm still worried at a certain point. I got to find these times that I can kind of like chill out a little bit. We need to get this guy, one of those. You need a golf or something. Yeah, you need to.

I hate golf, dude. Why don't you come in the shop with me? You'll be a woodworker. I surf, dude. You could sand. I'll teach you out of sand. I hate sand. Do you like sports in general?

Yeah, I mean, I like watching sports. I like surfing. I've gotten into surfing since I moved here. That's perfect. Yeah, yeah. I actually tell people it's like my golf. Yeah. Because it's just, yeah, I love getting out on the water.

That's a perfect thing. Just tune out, watch the waves, try to catch one or two. You hate golf because it's frustrating. It's hard to be good. Dude, the learning curve is it's deceptively difficult. It's deceptively difficult. And then it is very long. It's very long.

I'm grateful that my dad enrolled me in golf lessons when I was like 12. So from a young age, I was able to kind of figure it out. I'm from Arizona too. Yeah, from Arizona. Yeah. But yeah, it's really hard. Yeah. It's annoyingly hard.

I tried to pick it up like maybe six or eight years ago because it was one of these things where I'm like, wow, there's all these really impressive people who love the golf. like I should learn to golf so I can spend time with really it's a good networking interesting yeah like hang yeah get face time with people and uh yeah I fucking hate surfing there's not too much face time well like what's up dude boom it can actually it it's a nice it's a nice bro hang activity so like if you I guess while you're waiting for the wave right because you you've got all this time they kind of just sit in the water together and you don't have to take a wave like you can just hang out you can let

waves go by like if you're having a good conversation you just let waves go by yeah I've tried serving a few times and I can't stand up on the board. It's similar to golf and that it's deceptively difficult. I'm pretty coordinated with that stuff. I just can't figure out surfing. Yeah. It's hard. I'll have to try it in the future.

It's hard. I'm still bad at it. But, you know, I love it. All right. And then what do you give too few fucks about? Apparently hanging out in war zones. I'm going to answer that one for you. I was going to say, like, I have no, like, I can't.

Your gauge of dangers seems to be a little askew. I'm like numb to it. I'm completely numb to it. Yeah. Well, I hope you live. Me too. Thank you. I joke around, but it is really cool what you're doing.

And it is, I mean, honestly, what you said is 100% true, which is there are places in the world where the stories are underserved and the people are underserved in terms of having their stories broadcasts in the world. So like we need people like you to go there and broadcast those stories. So I am selfishly grateful for what you do and what people like you do. Maybe skip Mogadishu on the next itinerary. But next time you head somewhere like Budapasa, whatever, just let me know. I can give you some advice or whatever story you're making is probably something I've thought about or that I can help you.

It's cool. Stare you in the right direction. Appreciate that. Yeah, no problem. Awesome, man.