Some More News - Ceasefires, "Humanitarian Pauses," And The Joe Biden Of It All

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Hi. Writer and comedian Jamie Loftus joins Katy and Cody to discuss the Biden administration's reaction to the violence in Gaza, whether or not we should care that Joe Biden is hemorrhaging 2024 voters, hot dogs, and the wonderful world of clichés.Anera: https://www.anera.org/Palestine Children's Relief Fund: https://www.pcrf.net/Medical Aid for Palestinians: https://www.map.org.uk/PalestineRCS: http://www.palestinercs.org/Check out our MERCH STORE: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/somemorenewsSUBSCRIBE to SOME MORE NEWS: https://tinyurl.com/ybfx89rhSubscribe to the Even More News and SMN audio podcasts here--Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/some-more-news/id1364825229Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ebqegozpFt9hY2WJ7TDiARight now, Nuts.com is offering new customers a free gift with purchase and free shipping on orders of $29 or more at Nuts.com/morenews. So, go check out all of the delicious options at Nuts.com/morenews. You’ll receive a free gift and free shipping when you spend $29 or more! That’s Nuts.com/morenews.Give your business the gift of Stamps dot com so your mailing and shipping is covered this holiday season. Sign up with promo code: MORENEWS for a special offer that includes a 4-week trial, plus free postage, and a digital scale. No long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click the microphone at the top of the page, and enter code MORENEWS.Head to FACTORMEALS.com/morenews50 and use code morenews50 to get 50% off. That’s code: morenews50 at FACTORMEALS.com/morenews50 to get50% off!Slow down the news ticker in your mind. Upgrade to better Natural Solutions from NextEvo Naturals. Go to NextEvo.com and use promo code MORENEWS to get 25% off. That’s 25% off at NEXTEVO.com promo code: MORENEWS.

Hello and welcome back to even more news the first and only news podcast my name is Katie Stoll. Hi Katie Stoll I learned that on the news podcast I listened to the only one that is out there which is this one I'm also on the news podcast I listened to. The only one that is out there, which is this one. I'm also on it. My name's Cody. Hi. Hi. Joining us today, we're very excited to welcome writer, comedian, podcaster, friend, Jamie Loftus. Hello. How are you guys? I'm good. We're good. I shouldn't speak spectacular. I'm good. He's spectacular. I'm fine. Jonathan, how you? I'm good. I was gonna say fine. And then I felt like that would be a real letdown from good and spectacular.

I feel like you really thought about it, though. And I appreciate that. I was sort of hoping for like, I'm slaying today. Like I was hoping you'd really give an answer that I couldn't have anticipated. You don't know this, but that's what i say on the podcast every other week every other week yeah is that how we i'm slaying okay it's my catchphrase yeah i'm slaying today you can see i'm slaying today we're gonna talk about that we definitely will talk about how he is slaying the White House. First, though, we got some holidays. Ooh. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Forced joy.

God, this one sucks. November 2nd, International Project Management Day. Ooh. Pass. I haven't project managed anything, and I'm doing okay. Just fine. Yeah. Synergy optimization day optimization we'll see what my

future holds but i would love to meet someone who really thrives on that day though i mean i bet i would like to meet them finished hell yeah i'm sure you know free time due to their efficiency well i would say that's a john and our team that's jonathan yeah that's not my title but i do uh well what does this say juggling tasks rallying teams and achieving goals i feel like i do that like a conductor of a symphony did you know what jonathan you know what jonathan slays at project he slays at orchestrating success with finesse he really does we'd be lost without you um that's very nice thank you how did we exist before jonathan i don't know without our international project manager

but i don't want to i've gone back and watched episodes and listened to episodes and i feel like you managed we did but we managed we managed but we didn't international project manage exactly yeah i am the project that you magic. I could sense the shift where you're like, there's an international project being managed here. In which it wasn't. It was not previously managed. So November 3rd, we actually ended up having quite a bit of fun with that one. So good job us.

But this one, November 3rd, cliche day. Use cliches as much as possible today it's not actually a good idea but uh just you know why not just give her a shot so maybe we could do that today is that a fun thing to add to the mix as we navigate a very complicated political conversation yeah let's add as many cliches to i'm sure the very light episode that we're in for as possible jamie you had a book come out i did i did tell us a little bit about this i mean i've got it written here but i think it's better to have people describe their books than me read about oh thank you no it's, I'm trying to figure out what cliches I can put in here.

I had the time of my life. Okay, there we go. Promoting this book called Raw Dog, which is about hot dogs. That's all I've got. Well, because I believe that laughter is the best medicine. The calm before the storm.

Well, that was when my book wasn't out the storm itself well i was frightened to death but time heals all wounds and the writing was on the wall it went well and i was happy with it you know it's a book about it's a book about hot dogs that is both a cultural history of the hot dog and a bunch of small businesses learning about the uh you know how the hot dog is basically a canvas for the food culture of wherever you are and also how it was the summer that we started hearing that no one wants to go back to work uh talking to people of uh you know trying to deconstruct that as well as getting frothingly horny for Joey Chestnut. So wide range of, there's light chapters, there's dark chapters, but I had a great, I had especially a great time doing book events for it across the country and just like interviewing. I mean, anyone from like union reps from the meatpacking industry to a guy named crazy like conti who told

the truly disgusting story very nice guy told me one of the most disgusting stories i'd ever seen or i'd ever heard about eating mayonnaise at a woman he was casually seeing's house like eating a like three jars of mayonnaise to prepare for a contest. So all's fair in love and war. In conclusion. I am blown away by your cliches. That sounds fascinating. And like you ate a lot of hot dogs. Yeah, I still do.

And I still do. That was the next part of that question. It's like, are you, you're still cool with hot dogs. There's still your fave. I, you know, with hot dogs, what goes around comes around. And I, yeah, but, but every cloud has a silver lining in that I like hot dogs. I do. I think they're a slay, you could uh i i still eat them all the time i think the the thing that has actually meaningfully changed are uh the places i will not eat a hot

dog from or actively avoid specifically smithfield foods i think any subsidiary of smithfield which you have to be careful because there's all they own a lot of products including ones i love like nathan's that's owned by smithfield and they have some of the most truly despicable labor which you have to be careful because there's all, they own a lot of products, including ones I love, like Nathan's that's owned by Smithfield. And they have some of the most truly despicable labor practices on the human and animal sides that you could imagine. And what was, I think especially horrible, because I think that I, it was something that was happening during lockdown that I wasn't really aware of. I like, I remember the executive order coming down that we have to have meat or we're not Americans anymore.

But sort of bearing that out and how that working in meatpacking factories throughout 2020 into 2021 was one of the highest, like one of the highest death rates per capita of any workplace in the entire country, right up there with healthcare providers. And it was because there was so much going on at that time, it sort of became this under-discussed issue that continued to be reported on really well, but never really broke through to becoming a widespread conversation. And so, yeah, learning more about that and and about specific you know just how that sort of uh is a story about how meatpacking unions that used to be really strong have diminished in strength over time and the consequences of that so there's all sorts all that to say don't eat smithfield products they're They're as close to the devil incarnate as you could find at a grocery store.

But their website says good food responsibly. It's the first thing it says on their website. But it says right there, Jamie. Are you sure? Did you check this? It also says good is what we do. Could you cut that out? Could you cut out that whole part?

Oh, my God. Okay, good. Okay, good. Because you haven't gone to their website. It says good is what we do. Could you cut that out? Could you cut out that whole part? Oh my God. Okay, okay, good, okay, good. That's so embarrassing. You haven't gone to their website. It says good food responsibly. I'm so embarrassed. I, you know, all the glitters is gold. Oh, you're wonderful.

I already wanted to read your book, but now I really want to read your book, so I'm going to read your book. now I really want to read your book so I'm gonna read your book hell yeah hell yeah I also have to point out that underneath good food responsibly uh it says good is what we do but the word good is in quotation marks oh good is what we do and what do they mean by that good for them for trying I sincerely hope that that they they were forced by a court to add in those like if you scrolled slightly down they've got like sexual animal care diversity equity and inclusion environment food safety and quality like entire sections just like devoted to that information is all of it's in quotes. Food, quote, safety. Animal care.

Animal, quote, quote, care. Animal, quote, care, quote. I just, like, you cannot, if you're selling meat, you cannot report to care about, I just can't. I don't know. And then, like, it's, everyone can read the book if they want to talk about ag-gag laws, because that's something that just keeps me up at fucking night. And Smithfield is responsible for pushing so many of them through. Oh boy.

What's the cliche? Is that? Oh boy, it's probably one. And now a word from our sponsors. Smithfield Foods. Hopefully not Smithfield Foods. Hey friend, you know how everyone always talks about how they want to eat wood, Smithfield Foods. Hopefully not Smithfield Foods. Hey, friend. You know how everyone always talks about how they want to eat wood, but you can't eat wood.

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Yeah. Oh, geez. You get your holiday wishlist in order. I already sent mine to Santa because it is definitely already holiday season. For some reason, asked for a full suit of armor but totally forgot to include a mace on that list. Dang it. Silly forgetful Katie. And if you run a business, be sure not to forget stamps.com from your Santa wish list.

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Because it's definitely the holiday season. I'm Laura Linney. And we are back from those words from those sponsors to talk about the news of which there is plenty so obviously for the past few weeks we have been talking about israel and palestine and we are going to continue doing that because there are horrifying things happening in real time. And we need to. OK, let's yeah, let's start with Joe Biden. Let's not.

Why not? The president. The president's the president. The president. Oh, that guy. Here's some fun quotes and actions from the Biden administration over the last few weeks. We'll just use that as a jumping off spot. Quote, I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed.

I'm sure innocents have been killed and it's the price of waging a war. I have no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using. It's actually kind of hard for me to read that yeah this is actually one of the more made me feel a little nauseous yeah it's one of the more disgusting things he's said recently um i was kind of like taken aback when i read that i was like there's no way they're quoting this exactly um he says palestinians twice um i was told i think by him probably that uh hamas and the palestinians aren't the same so we shouldn't conflate them and it's actually dangerous to do that so it's weird that he did that twice in this statement space one sentence yeah that

functionally is sort of denying genocide i don't want to use too harsh language, but that's effectively what he's doing. Giving people sort of a blank check to just sort of like dismiss any reporting, any information we get about the number of people who are being killed is just out the window because he's the president and he's saying it. It's really fucked up.

It is extremely fucked up. and when yeah i was also i and then i felt ridiculous for being surprised and kind of scandalized by the fact that he was using that language but it feels like they're yeah in the last week or so he's you know who knows what degree of actual strategy is going on here uh but it does feel like he has issued some sort of clip for a wide variety of feelings on this issue not a wide enough variety uh because of course he's still supporting the idf and and and so on but like if this feels like different than the tone of what was coming out several days before and it almost feels like a choose like well you can choose whatever joe biden clip you're most comfortable with because it's an election

year next year so there's probably oh for sure he's bumping up against the fact that a very sizable portion of his supporters i did the quotes are furious the way this is absolutely disgusted by what's happening and it's a problem this is a problem for him we'll see how much of a problem electoral but i mean so much of what the aid that he is you know he's focusing on like and we want to deliver aid to he just asked for a ceasefire just to get hostages out he's trying to do certain amounts of things to get aid in for people and trying to play both sides but at the end of the day he is fully supporting mass killings it's like giving a person a gun and then giving the person they shoot a band-aid um you're effectively you're you're saying well we stand with these people who are doing this and we're actually going to materially help them uh cause these deaths but also like we're very concerned we're

very concerned about the people who are dying and so we're going to like help them a little bit but you're just funneling money into this conflict in this. It's, I don't know, it's just this behemoth and it's very gross and disturbing to see. I want to clarify real quick that Joe Biden and his administration have not called for a ceasefire. They're using the term humanitarian pause. Exactly.

Thank you. Thank you, Jonathan. Which is also the language they try to use in the UN resolution, america vetoed so it's odd that like right now they're adopting the language that they vetoed like a week ago yeah i saw a tweet to the effect of like the humanitarian pause being the most like veep speak or not saying something and it's yeah yeah it's just like complete nonsense as was the you know announcement of the national strategy to counter islamophobia yesterday which is just like the most transparently it's so fucking cynical it's so disgusting um and like a good

for them for fighting uh islamophobia but like that is like it is on its face just this is fake this is because you know what you're doing is making people fucking hate you again just like but we're also really but actually we have this department yeah bringing it back just to this quote that he says i have no notion that the palestinians are telling the truth you know twice in one quote no confidence have no notion that the palestinians are telling the truth you know twice in one quote no confidence in the number that the palestinians so you're up here giving this message and flaming anyway yep we are getting it so and here's this i keep thinking about this quote it's one of the like aside from like the actual actions that are happening it's one of the most fucked up things i think he said like edges as president like even if you think this like we can't trust the numbers

whatever like go ahead and think that he's the president like half of his job is communicating uh the president also was sharing unverified claims yes exactly um and like we know like yeah exactly there well there are reports you know, Israel has a history of committing atrocities, killing journalists and lying about it. And then months later, like, yeah, we actually did that. So he's not applying this standard in any like even or sort of nuanced way. And what is the result of this? Well, the president says whatever number they give is wrong. So I always come back to like this question of then

what's like what's the good number what's the good number of dead civilians that you're tolerating because if they say six thousand civilians are dead and you're like well they're kind of lying i don't believe i don't believe those numbers well it's the number you do believe is it five thousand four thousand three is it what's the number that makes you comfortable with it um and it's just this it's this weird like dismissal of the entire idea that civilians are dying because if you're saying the number is a lie and we can't trust that then you're saying that it doesn't matter basically like that war is war is what he said like yeah people die and we can't believe the number so don't even look at the number right and don't believe the number and and also i think like unless i missed a piece of

that uh makes no clear citation as to why he wouldn't believe that number it's just like this it's it's it feels very clear what he's doing. He's like, let me just discredit Palestinians as much as humanly possible and hope that the tide is so universally negative because of the media climate that people won't even ask me to cite my fucking sources as to why you wouldn't believe this. Right. People say like, well, you can't trust the Gaza health ministry's number because that's just Hamas. But we have trusted numbers that the gaza health ministry has put out for years if you go on the secretary of states the state department's website it cites gaza health ministry numbers for stuff for years the un like it's a new thing to be like well they're clearly lying about this also don't trust the photos of leveled neighborhoods and things clearly like no one everyone got out of there so it's just like it's like to what what what's the extent to which like

you said cody that we're okay with that you're just okay with the two million displaced people like that's fine or that's okay uh with like well that's just war or you know we saw the national security council guy i forget his name say like hey that's just war or you know we saw the national security council guy i forget his name say like hey that's war war is terrible which is once you start getting into that anyone can you can say that you can justify anything exactly well now we're in now it's war and so now anything's justified yeah that's the truly like fucked up thing about again it's that one quote um so many things about it it It is this, the president of the United States saying, war sucks and people die. Therefore, you don't have to care.

And I know that people hear that and they're like, well, that's not what he said. That's what he's saying. That's the meaning of it. That's the meaning of it. There's a world where, and there's it's so frustrating because there was a period of time where i don't know if you remember donald trump was the president and he would yeah it was a little while ago he would say these sort of things and reduce sort of things and he would do them very grotesquely because he's a bit of a grotesque

person uh it's off-putting kind of a gross guy um and he's rude and all the things you can say about him and he would say these things or do these things and a lot of like people on the left or like the blue like blue blue folks would would get upset about it and you like slowly sort of realize like this is kind of a thing that like america does it's not that like donald trump is uniquely terrible it's that he's uniquely saying a lot of things more upfront. He's being crass about it. And that's off-putting. And so that sort of makes me think.

And so you're reacting. You're reacting to that and then sort of like digging into what's underneath and like, maybe this is actually bad that we do this. At least that was the hope. Well, that was the hope. That was what we talked about during the Trump years a lot. Well, at least we see things more clearly that people are like, oh, I'm outraged at this man saying this. And then you look at it and you see, well, actually, this is pretty standard.

This is what some people think. This is what presidents do. This is actually, you know, he's not that different from the other ones right to be honest and right now we have someone but it's very disheartening to me how quickly we forget that collectively and yes there's a specific type of liberal who'll be like put their blinders on and not yeah it's like status quo civility sort of approach to politics and like this with this quote specifically it's i i keep going back to it because it's like it's the kind of thing that if donald trump was the president and i'm not going to say everything would be like uh the same or whatever he would have he would probably be

supporting certain things that are worse um more explicitly sure but like this quote for example he would be saying ah the palestinians or the arabs or whatever he's going to say hamas they're lying dogs he would say they're lying dogs and Palestinians or the Arabs or whatever he's going to say, Hamas, they're lying dogs. He would say they're lying dogs. He would say that. And we can't trust them. And he would say like, you know, that's war. That's what we do.

You know, people die and it sucks. But like, that's what we got to do. And he would say the same thing, but in a more crass way that would make people go like, wait, that's fucked up. That might inflame more Islamophobia as well. Totally. No, exactly. But that might inflame more Islamophobia as well. Totally.

No, exactly. But like the fact that Biden is saying this same thing, but a little nicer is the thing that I think people- It's appalling. Like when things like this happen, I just urge people to like, imagine if Donald Trump were president, how would he say this? Would it upset you? And would it upset you because of how he says it or because of what he's actually saying underneath?

Another thing, things from this administration, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre responding to a question from Fox News as to if Biden thought ceasefire protesters are extremists. Quote, What I can say is we've been very clear about this. When it comes to anti-Semitism, there is no place. We have to make sure that we speak against it very loud and be very clear about that. Remember, what the president decided to run for president is what he saw in Charlottesville in 2017 when he saw neo-Nazis marching down the streets of Charlottesville with vile anti-Semitic just hatred. this is the other part of the conversation that's flying around right now is if you are against Israel's actions you are anti-semitic which seems to be the way it gets boiled down to which is so wild to wrap I think for a lot of us wrap our minds around how this is progressing and it's

heartbreaking to watch because as things things ratchet up, there are real horrifying anti-Semitic attacks happening and threats. And it's not okay. Nor is the Islamophobia that we're seeing. It's happening on all sides. But when you're conflating, you know, resistance to what's happening with anti-Semitism and conflating that with the Charlottesville actual Nazis. Oh, it's absurd. Also, because the question was. When the White House is doing it. Right. And the question was, I think he called them anti-Israel protesters.

And if you hear the phrase anti-Israel protesters and you jump to, we hate anti-semitism like the nazis in charlottesville then what you are doing is equating those two things in a way that is anti-semitic um and we've talked about that on here before like the nation isn't the people and the people aren't the nation and that you know like and that's actually like a good thing to recognize and it's a a bad thing to think. Well, and I think it like it cynically and intentionally phrase on people who don't know that. Like where I mean, where I, I didn't grow up Jewish. A lot of people that I like my family have been asking me about, like to sort of break this down for them as best I can and it really is like starting at like a basic level of like because of how the news is being presented and because of how the White House is presenting information if you're inclined to

generally believe what comes out of the White House you it's very likely you would be conflating Israel with Jewish people in general, which is, I mean, insane for so many reasons, but just like erases a prevailing opinion among many Jewish people. It's just, it drives me nuts. And I feel for my Jewish friends who are like organizers and socialists and and just firmly against the state of israel and have to constantly explain these are separate like completely separate it's yeah and like it's it's the kind of thing that also like it it does and we see this encourages like they're like jewish centers get like getting like if you see a jewish center being spray painted in new york yeah right like

that's all over not the same thing as the state of israel but if you if you're responding to a question like these anti-israel protesters and you're saying that they are anti-semitic then you are conflating the jewish people with that state therefore you're like it does encourage that kind of behavior it does encourage hate crimes um because you are conflating them and so you're making it hard to even have this discussion i don't know it's uh it's a mess yeah i saw some people try to suggest that oh you're taking that quote out of context uh she's just saying that the administration's against uh anti-semitism what's the problem with that and it's like well what she said was a direct

response to a question about protesters who are calling for a ceasefire why are you bringing up anti-semitism exactly because there's no doubt that because of what's happening islamophobia and anti-semitism are both on the rise like no question we're seeing you're you're going to see an increase in hate crimes against both groups in this country and probably around the world. I mean, I can't imagine what it's like to be either one of these groups in different regions, you know, parts of the Middle East, in Europe, honestly. I bet it's horrifying. Sorry to interject. I just feel, I feel really, I feel so broken up about so many elements of this.

And the fact that, yes, we're propagating these ideas on the world stage that our White House is doing that. Sorry, I shouldn't have interjected that. No, that's fine. And I think it brings us to the question where this is all heading is like, you know, we don't tell people like how to vote here. We don't tell people like how to vote here we don't tell people how we're voting but it brings up some very very serious questions about november 2024 which is like a year and a couple of days from now which is the next election yeah what the hell we're gonna do well that's again that's why like we're seeing all these like state these like statements where it's like what does joe biden think well he kind of thinks whatever you whatever clip you find uh whatever you want to seek out

because i think they're aware i mean we you know a lot of it's just like propaganda to make people in the white house feel better but like you know you see statements of like oh there's so much concern in the white house for what's going on they're so upset and like there's some people who have resigned and stuff but like not enough but i think it's gonna change it's very clear that like they're aware at the very least that this is a problem this is a problem and like because also like there's like you said jonathan like we're not you know i i we did a video a couple years ago about like like vote for biden if you want here are some reasons why um but i'd never would want to get into the realm of like vote shaming or like scolding people or like yelling at people to vote because i've seen that

and it does not work it is not effective um it it's uh the wrong move especially like a year out and if you see like the arab population or the youth vote saying things that are like that they think are real problems instead of trying to scold them and patronize them and like be like well you just don't know any better maybe listen a little bit now because like you know two years ago i was like oh the youth vote they came out they got jo got Joe Biden elected. Well, guess what? They're fucking mad now at him. And they want somebody else. They don't want to get him elected again.

And who could fucking blame them? Like, we're going to take a quick break. Just go and get that. Because this is the bigger conversation that we shouldn't rush. So we won't do that after the ads. Ring-a-ding-ding, do I hearigh bells no i don't actually but as we begin to kinda enter the holiday season you might be looking for convenient and nutritious meals for those busy days putting candle wreaths under your neighbor's cars to celebrate halloween with factor you can get fresh and never frozen meals delivered right to your door.

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Oh my gosh. Cody, what did you want to say? Oh, just to put a a bow on some of the previous things because there are so many quotes every day and there's a lot of like you know especially about this issue but so much of like u.s position and propaganda and stuff there's it's just a an onslaught of contradictions and over like we're saying this but also we're doing this well we say this and we say this and those things don't line up together they're all these sort of rhetorical uh frustrating things and uh like jonathan you were saying you've seen people about the charlottesville uh quote be

like well let's take an eye context and if you look at the full clip it's not out of context the context is asked about anti-Israel protests, jumps to Charlottesville neo-Nazis. So that conflation is very clear. But even if, and I've also seen people be like, well, it was a dodge or like she didn't want to like respond to it. And it was like a political thing, stuff like that. And with the Biden quote, like he misspeaks all the time, then they shouldn't have this job no they shouldn't their job is to communicate effectively and honestly and his job as the fucking president a lot is communication being a leader communicating jumping through hoops to excuse behavior that they would be horrified

if it was the other team right so just like okay he misspoke and she's doing a dodge that still fucking sucks and maybe somebody else should be in a position to communicate more effectively if he's saying hamas isn't the palestinians but also we shouldn't trust those pesky palestinians with their numbers well then who who's fucking in charge here like who who are we listening to? It's just an absurd situation. It's so frustrating to see. And we don't have any other options. like adults please it is impossible to have any sort of criticism or like attempt at having principles on issues without being told like well you just love donald trump do you you want to smooch him because like it's so frustrating it sure is isn't it i just i just i mean i i find it extremely frustrating to i mean it i it makes me feel a sense of like frustration and despair and anger

all in a fun little cocktail because it's like, okay, so what was, you know, the many things that I think a lot of people came to realize for the first time during the Trump administration, like if four years on you have an abject refusal to discuss any gray area of any issue and you can shut down any conversation about how objectively poorly at best to horrific at worst that our current president is doing just by invoking a you know rhetorically worse president what how could you possibly i feel fucking better i feel like i feel really so doomed well doomed is a strong word but i tend to be pretty hopeful about change and people learning and growing and and maybe on an individual level i

maintain that to be true but individually and smaller collectives but my goodness how quickly people forget and how these are opportunities actually for us to learn how to communicate effectively with people we don't quite understand this is these are opportunities for us to i mean there's so many elements of it we could have grown in ways we could have grown from this uh and we haven't and we're just tribalized tribalism have put up these blinders and refuse to engage with uh any sort of criticism yeah and there's like then there are things like that have happened like we've talked about them the show like oh it's good that he did this you know uh like there

are so many reasons that the labor labor movement is like on the rise and and getting stronger and part of part of it is like some appointments he's made and like little and moves he's made um uh they're uh you know missteps here and there as well um the drone drone strikes are down generally um and that's just generally a good thing he doesn't talk about it because i guess he's not proud or something um but like there are some things but like whenever something big like this happens or something very obviously a problem it's just so disappointing to see that like we didn't really learn anything you were mostly upset with the way the other guy talked. Yes.

It was the rudeness that you didn't like. And so, you know, like, it's not like we were thrilled with that. Right, right. I would say that you guys were famously unthrilled. Famously unthrilled. But it, yeah, I mean, just invoking Trump and the Trump years as a way to shut down a conversation about a current issue. I just find it so like, it's just, it's the ultimate non-starter in any conversation I've tried to have in the last. It's so frustrating because also like, it's one of those things we're like do you not realize that that's what you're doing like if you have huge amounts of people again praising the youth vote two years ago for getting joe biden elected if those people are like wait what the

fuck this fucking sucks and this is a problem we don't want to vote for this guy by you rejecting that entirely and not addressing it and saying well well, I hope you like Trump, you are telling them that you don't need them. And so it's just like it's it's so frustrating to see like your actions are actually what is going to lead down that path. Yeah, because if you're not addressing these now, one way to make sure that Trump isn't elected is to make sure that like your party is strong and like you listen to people and you make sure that you're addressing those concerns of the people who helped get you fucking elected he could still i mean no he couldn't he would still be hemorrhaging support but there are so many different things he's could have said while navigating this that showed empathy and compassion that's a purposeful choice that he hasn't.

He is on the side of Israel and he's going to be, and our whole government is going to be. I mean, I do follow the Dear White Staffers Instagram account. It's anonymous submissions, but they are just flooding it. So many just staffers on the Hill writing in about how gutted they are, how they're getting flooded with calls that they won't even answer or engage with. Just 80, 90 percent of the messages being in support of Palestine and their senators just say, give them a rote thing that they have to respond with. But one was a Palestinian person and there's and there's no absolutely no engagement and they refuse and

they won't and so they're thinking about organizing a walkout because nobody they feel like they're being completely gaslit or you know yeah well it's like yeah inundated with propaganda and like these like little rhetorical lines like well we say the stock phrase, then they all know, you know, everybody in the government knows they know. I think there's this. Like the wise centrist is always like, well, what do you expect? You expect Joe Biden to just go out there and say free Palestine and we're going to abandon our ally. Like, I don't think we're naive. We realize that any president would be in a very sticky situation when it comes to this issue, right?

And doing what we would all ideally want Joe Biden to do would mean he maybe hemorrhages support from somewhere else. You know, there's the politics of it. And then there's the what's the right thing to do of it, which is like what we would likely want him to do. So it's not like we're like, oh, Joe Biden would definitely win in 2024. If he did what we want. want him to do so it's not like we're like oh joe biden would definitely win in 2024 if he did what we want it's like oh we don't care doesn't matter don't it doesn't matter go die not go die but go retire yeah because that's the same thing like who like we're looking at who are the people who are most under threat right now who are the people in the most danger of losing their lives and their homes and everything right now that's what we want to stop yeah it's it's such like it's the memification

of atrocities right it's like like we and because you said that uh you know you can have much more calm and and reasonable conversations with people in person like i believe if we had amy schumer here on this show we'd probably have a much more reasonable conversation than anything that's going to happen in her instagram comments or whatever like what a great way to communicate with people and like it's a separate issue but the memification of atrocities i really think has like sent this all south yeah uh i mean even like i mean this is a such a tiny like simple example but like justin bieber sharing like i stand with palestine but it's a image of like gaza leveled

like this is like israel he said uh same fucking thing with israel okay wait what did i say you said i stand with palestine but he yeah i stand with his real thing but yeah yeah no we get it okay yeah um yeah it's like yeah the the just the post and then like yeah just like we'll we'll solve it in the comments don't worry well i i also i also feel like i mean going back to just discussion of the the youth vote and and how in you know critical youth voters were in 2020 i mean there i there's a lot of people and a lot of young people who are showing up for bernie who are now like where the fuck are you like where the fuck is this person that i

threw my hat in and you know hit the streets for for a million fucking hours like where did you go all meanwhile all we've got is senator durbin like it's yeah senator dick durbin and uh justin amash apparently it's well i it's just it's absurd that it that's shocking isn't it yeah yeah yeah um yeah there's a there's a quote he said back in the day that always got to me and talking about how he always felt very lonely in politics and uh he doesn't feel lonely anymore is this very good uh no sorry i'm talking about bernie um i'm sorry i was joking oh good okay are you willing to work for somebody that you don't know um uh but it's like this this quote that always stuck with me it's like he always felt alone i don't feel alone anymore and it's like the big crowd and stuff and like finally there's like this, this quote that always stuck with me. It's like, yeah, I always felt alone. I don't feel alone anymore.

And it's like the big crowd and stuff. And like, finally, there's like, there are people who are, we seem to be on the same level and it does feel very, uh, lonely now in terms of like anybody representing these problems and people. I will rally myself. We've got time before elections. We've got time. Anything can change.

will rally myself we've got time before elections we've got time anything can change but right now i feel pretty despondent about and i already was but i feel pretty about the future of everything but you know our politics america who are our leaders where are they david froome i feel pretty yeah and it's it's demoralizing in a bit in a very real way and i i hope that something's changed it's so demoralizing um and disappointing and again it's these like little little rhetorical like just like what like like lip service and then like lip service over here on the other side of your mouth and like there's a just this fucking enlightened centrist bullshit it's so frustrating or like i'm actually the reasonable liberal there's this fucking jonathan chait article um and there's this line from it i'm gonna read

and while the left's disagreements with biden's approach toward israel are rational enough it ignores his willingness to affirm the humanity and dignity of muslims and arabs what it's such like mealy mouth like liberal bullshit it's meaningless that's meaningless despite despite the left bringing up very valid concerns about the massacre going on despite that they're ignoring that he's saying that you shouldn't be mean to arabs he said he said it it's a perfect example of this we're not ignoring that at all we could talk about uh the bombing of this refugee camp i was told that there are no bombings actually oh it was and it happened and are there um any excuses to make it like okay or like actually they needed

to do this or like a hamas commander there so here's the thing right like we got one who else did you get who else how many other people did you get for this one guy like what i keep going back to this like what's the number you're like ah the the civilian deaths it's it's over counted we don't we don't worry about that number but we got one, like, what's the number? You're like, ah, the civilian deaths, it's overcounted. We don't worry about that number. But we got one Hamas guy. What's the balance? What's the fucking number that you're accepting? It's hard.

I know that there's been some pushback around throwing around the word genocide, but it's hard when things like this happen because they're not just sticking to Gaza. We're seeing more and more incursions into the West Bank, you know, brutalization, forced removals from homes. I don't have the number right in front of me, but a lot of people have been killed there. Do we think it stops there? What's the end game here? What's the end goal? When, like, to your point, yeah, what's the number? goal when like to your point yeah what's the number because the place is decimated you know they say like oh we told them to move south but then they start bombing the south immediately so what is the goal what is the fucking goal you want to bomb the tunnels where your hostages are likely held by the way i mean i don't know It's really hard to trust any information at all.

I have seen, you know, Hamas say, if we can believe it, they would release hostages when there is a ceasefire. And you're just not entertaining that idea. So what is the goal? When do you stop decimation? Are you going to take West Bank, too? The way that we're seeing it reported is equally disturbing, where it's like the often not the actual reporter bending over backwards to avoid saying who is bombing these camps like and and and also who is complicit in empowering those decisions it's just saying this happened in this bizarre rhetorical void of like is it this happened without yeah no yeah who did it who it, who funded it, nothing. And they're going to have a hard time once they get in there and we find out how many of these hostages were blown up in Israeli airstrikes. Like how many hostages were murdered.

And of course, they should be released. Everyone should be released. But we're going to have to deal with like hair the 30 bodies of israeli hostages you know were found exploded or whatever we got one of the muskets one of them i don't think that uh they actually care that much about their hostages is what i would guess. I mean, they do to a degree, but I, it does at the end of the day, this is all justification for doing the thing that they wanted to do. And at the end of the day, this is about land and territory, right? You know, they want it.

Yeah. This is an opportunity for them. And I, I think privately, they would say the hostages are also collateral in this. So just to that point, like we've talked about this before, but like it's like Netanyahu and other people in the party have literally said, like, we have to support Hamas. Like this is what they want. Seemingly. Allegedly. Allegedly, according to him, literally. allegedly according to him literally yeah i think i just i i feel that it's disrespectful to use the like to the hostages to use them as collateral like rhetorical yeah lateral to just like it's

in the same way that i think that you know people who died in 9-11 were often you know invoked as well this is why we are committing these atrocities it's for them it's like well no it's not like yeah no exactly it's um it's a very frustrating again it's there's so many like constant contradictions and conflicts uh with this this because you see a lot of people we've seen a lot of people like oh you so you're like justifying what hamas did no no i'm i understand this situation and what happened i'm not justifying those actions but like what you're like justifying what Hamas did no no I'm I understand the situation and what happened I'm not justifying those actions but like what you're pointing out kind of is like no they're justifying this like this devastation that they're raining down is being justified by this or this so like right it's just like it's again it's sort of like you're justifying this. It's like, no, no, no. You're doing that. You're saying it's OK now.

I didn't say anything. It was OK. I didn't justify anything. And yeah, it's just this frustrating back and forth where like there is a closed conversation that has happened and there's no expansion on that. There's no getting into that conversation. There's no like. Yeah. Yeah. The way I see it, like our side does not think attacking civilians is justified and the from what i can only well from what i understand the israeli government and you know by extension the joe biden of it is no civilian deaths are justifiable sometimes yes that is what is going on with this like shrug of well war sucks so it happens like it has nothing to do with us which is like by the way what hamas says

in interviews when asked about this it's like the same justification right it's that's what's hard is not that that's what's hard there's so much but so fucking frustrating. Reiterating what everyone said here. People saying, think about this. Do you care about this? But totally using, ignoring that same logic when applied to the other side. Saying like, how dare you guys not care about us for this attack, but just ignoring this. Saying this isn't, we're just just defending ourselves but what they're doing isn't that's terrorism you know what really and like according to according to who what's going

on now like i saw again i bring up fucking david's room again uh but like he tweeted like uh uh nobody called for a ceasefire on october 7th yeah because it just happened what like what do you mean could we have done that is there an ability to do that comment yeah um like what happened on the 8th and the 9th and the 10th like what's been going on for weeks that is ongoing that we're clearly like involved in uh where we can voice our opinion about like yeah there should be a ceasefire or whatever like that's not that wasn't an option uh on that day it's just a very weird like again it's just shut down of like i'm gonna just say this and actually that means yeah we can't talk about this anymore right if the conversation didn't start within

the first hours of even processing what happened it could never take place like it's exactly it's now or never i guess oh there's one right there wow there's one it's kind of maybe a good way to wrap this up thank you thank you your dictionary.com slash article slash examples dash cliche dash meaning dash origin i assume is the website a couple of us are on uh is uh the exact one i'm on yeah that's right jamie thank you for joining us to talk about this unbelievably frustrating upsetting heartbreaking thank you to dick durbin life-altering situation thank you to dick durbin for doing the right thing no thank you to bernie or joe biden amongst hundreds of many many other people no but no thank thank you so much for having me back i

really appreciate it before we go just wanted to highlight um that well tonight you're doing a fundraiser fundraiser for gaza tonight maybe talk about that i know that it'll be over by the time right this comes out however maybe there's a place people can donate or how to watch this stream if there's streaming or anything like that or yeah i i don't believe that it's streaming but they're um yeah i am uh performing on a fundraiser for gaza tonight i'm really really really honored to have been asked and all of the money from it. It's sold out, which I'm really thrilled about. There's been a huge, wonderful showing of support in LA in the last several weeks and a bunch of great people.

They're donating all of the money. It'll be split between anera the palestine children's relief fund uh medical aid for palestinians and prcs so i can uh send all those links it'll be split four ways thank you um and i'm really excited to do it yeah well thank you for doing that thank you for joining us um thank you for listening thank you for reading the hot dogs thank you for reading all the hot dogs. Thank you for listening. Thank you for reading all the hot dogs. Thank you for writing that book. What a year. What a year. Thank you for this year. Is there something I'm forgetting to say to people?

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