Some More News - Even More News: Biden's Shifting Red Line

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

Hi. Comedian Josh Gondelman joins Katy and Cody to talk about the Biden administration finally threatening to condition its policy on aid to Israel on the safety of civilians. They also touch on Florida's Supreme Court allowing a six-week abortion ban to take effect, and Amazon discontinuing its "Just Walk Out" program. See Josh Gondelman on tour: https://www.joshgondelman.com/schedule 0:00 - Intro and Holidays12:09 - Biden's shift and the World Central Kitchen36:38 - Florida's abortion ban47:20 - Amazon ditches "Just Walk Out" Right now, Hungryroot is offering Some More News viewers 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Just go to https://Hungryroot.com/MORENEWS to get 40% off your first delivery and get your free veggies. Check out our MERCH STORE: https://shop.somemorenews.com   SUBSCRIBE to SOME MORE NEWS: https://tinyurl.com/ybfx89rh   Subscribe to the Even More News and SMN audio podcasts here: Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/some-more-news/id1364825229   Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ebqegozpFt9hY2WJ7TDiA   Follow us on social media: Twitter:

Hello and welcome back to even more news. The first and only news podcast. My name is Katie Stoll. Now it's your turn to talk, sir, with the beard. Thank you. I'm on this. Oh, no, there's so many beers on this call. I assume me this this call. Oh no, there's so many beards on this call. I assume me this one. Hello, I am Cody Johnston, one of the beard havers on the episode.

One of the beard havers. We have two other beard havers and this week our guests, we are delighted by our guests this week. What a treat. We have comedian and writer, Twitter, Instagram, sensation. I ad-libbed that one, but I think it's fair. Josh Gondelman! Hey, thank you for having me. I will say, third best of the three beards.

I'm gonna be real about it. Yours isn't as grown in as the other gentlemen on this call. And I keep it that way. That's the thing, though, is quality of beard based on, like, is it fullness or length? You know, like you've got a nice beard, it's just not as long. Not as long. But doesn't mean as good necessarily.

I like a beard with potential. A beard with potential, I think that's perfect. You're killing it. And you definitely have a beard with potential. You've got a big future ahead of you with that beard. Big beard with room to grow. Look, this is no shade on anybody that's clean shaven. You guys have very nice faces, but I love a beard.

I love a beard of all lengths. I like a five o'clock shadow. I guess that's the precursor to a beard. I like your length, Josh. I like Cody's length. I like Jonathan's length. I like, I even after... Jonathan's here by the way.

Jonathan's here too, that's the third beard haver. After recently moving to the mountains. There's some real beards up there in the mountains. There's some like wizard beards. Oh yeah. I'm not as big of a fan, but honestly, respect. You've been growing that for a while and you've committed to it.

You know, it's a look. I think, Katie, it's so clear that you're not anti-no-beard because you yourself are not a beard-haver. I don't have one, I've tried. Okay, Josh, you're new here, so you don't know the score yet, but you're about to. We start every episode by discussing the day's holidays. Let's do it because it's always a holiday.

It's always a holiday. Friday, April 5th, first contact day. When I first read this, I got excited. Like, is there something that happened that I don't know about? No, this is first. Well, yes, but it's for for all the Trekkies out there. This day commemorates. Is that from Cochran?hyrm Cochran.

Zephyrm Cochran. The launch of the movie Star Trek First Contact? Or the first viewing of the Carl Sagan movie Contact. It's Zephyrm Cochran, a Star Trek character who first invented the warp drive, making first contract with the Vulcans and initiating the human race into the interstellar community. Can you celebrate and I'm sorry to blow up the premise of this segment so early on, can you celebrate the anniversary of something that takes place in the future? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you can. Well, in this situation, apparently, that holiday, April 5th, it happens to be the birthday

of the show's co-creator son. So I think really it's just his birthday. Got it. Oh, so it's just like Star Trek Day. In the movie, they arrive in the past, the enterprise does on April 4th, 2063. The movie was released on November 22nd. So this is... But 2063 is like several years. That's still, at least a couple of years from now.

Is that even our lifetime? Who's to say? I don't mind. Who's to say? Who's to say? Who's to say? All I said. Wait, that's pretty far.

What's my quick math? That's 40 years? That's 40 years from now, is that it? All I have to say about this is... We could still be kicking. April the 5th be with you. April the 5th be with you. May the 5th be with you. Okay, we've got another one, we've got another one.

April 6th. This one's fun. Sort of. New Beers Eve. Come on. Cute? Come on, I mean, I meant not cute, man. No, you have it fine.

No. That would be a great name for the night before Thanksgiving. It really would be. So this day marks one of the- But it's April 6th. But we can move Thanksgiving. That would be nice actually. Spread them out a little bit.

Spread them out. That is a wild ride, the holiday season. Yeah. It's too much all at once. You can't hit if you're traveling a far distance, you can't go home both times. Anyway, New Year's Eve does take away from Easter. Does it? Trans Visibility Day took away from Easter, too, this year. So like, I feel like maybe we're packing too many holidays in.

I think they joined forces. Yeah, combined them up. One holiday, one holiday a year. New Beer's Eve. New Year's Eve marks one of the key dates in the end to prohibition and is the precursor to New Beer's Day. OK. The Beer Wine Revenue Act went into effect on April 7th, 1933, legalizing the sale of beer and wine nationwide. OK, so there we go.

That has happened. Right. That's an actual indication of history and time the way we understand time to work. We have explained this holiday system to every guest and I'm sure listeners are just annoyed by it, but there's no rhyme or reason to what's a holiday. Anything can be a holiday according to the National Today calendar.

I love to celebrate. Yeah, this is terrific. I do too. There was a moment where I thought you said the end of brohibition, and I was like, oh no, did they outlast Smirnoff? I said. No, I think that is something

that we really should be talking about more often. Ending brohibition. Is brohibition? Yeah. Dane Cook is banned. It is. People talk about it, but it is an infringement on first bra amendment rights. This is good. This is fun.

Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? We are going to talk about the news, but this is our way to get to know people. Same thing. Same thing. I know it's been happening in the world, so I'm getting in the sillies as I can. Totally. And there's some heavy news that we'll get into, so we'll get our jokes in while we can. Before we do that though, just a chance for our audience to get to know you a little bit more. I want to say- How dare you? We all hear, how dare you be so flipping nice? You are one of the nicest people on Nine,

you are positive, you are encouraging and somehow freaking funny. What's your deal, man? That's very kind of you to say. I appreciate that. You've been in that so many ways. In a very mean way. Thank you. No, I love it. I also am like extremely comfortable being bullied. That is like some of that's like the zone I operate. Well, I'm going to roll over and show them my belly. Yeah, that's right. I am too. I'm like, that's absolutely. Yep. That is 100%. And it's part of that I think is being from Boston. And like that is affection. It's like affection looks exactly like cruelty. I mean, I grew up in the suburbs, but it's the same vibe of just like talking shit.

And it's in a loving way. Yeah, that's your story. It's very hard to find that general vibe online specifically. But the energy has shifted online so much in the algorithm, which rewards and like fury and abuse. Yeah, basically. It's also like the thing I've gotten pretty good because I used to engage more with people who were shitty. And I used to be like, oh, I shouldn't let this go unchecked. Or maybe this person is reachable,

this person who I disagree with, maybe they're reachable. And I think that the culture of the internet and the algorithmic selection is such that that doesn't feel true anymore, which is a bummer. But it also keeps me from talking. Like, you say something that is like, Oh, I feel this way politically. And then someone will like rephrase your words, like they're insulting you. And you're like, that's what I said. So frustrating. And I find that even more frustrating

than people being like, Hey, you stupid dumbass, I hate you. And I hate what you stand for. Because at least then you're like, Oh, I know why we're disagreeing. I get so flustered when people are smug about saying the same thing, but with like one different word. And that is what I have to stay out of. That drives me up a wall. Do you take it?

Yeah, there's no way to get out of that scenario. Like there's no way to untie it. It's not gonna turn out well. Nobody's happy. Right, and they're coming in like get out of that scenario. Like there's no way to untie it. It's not gonna turn out well. Nobody's happy. Right, and they're coming in not to like have a discussion or to like build on what you said in most cases. Sometimes it is, right?

Sometimes people say something different. You go, oh, you could have done your own tweet or post about it, but instead you are like piggybacking off of what I said and it's annoying, but it's fine. But like sometimes people come in just looking to be like 1% writer than you, like Price is Right style, and then they win conversation. And it is so irritating.

And I think, I don't know if you find this, and this sounds like maybe a champagne problem, but the discourse on the internet doesn't scale. When you have more followers, which like on some platforms I have more than others on Twitter. I've kind of a lot of followers and it makes it extremely difficult to like have pleasant conversations Absolutely It makes me not want to use the site people have heard me say this They're saying move on at home in their cars because we've talked about this a lot,

but it definitely does not incentivize me to want to use that site. I would rather engage on other platforms. I would rather see how people are having the conversations elsewhere. I also have to have my Twitter because I'm still not calling it X. Cause yeah, that's the followers and maybe it'll shift.

Maybe it's still the place where we share and disseminate our work. And I, you know, sometimes, you know, sooner or later, you know, you I'm right here. But, Cody, you're never muted when I tell you to mute. I can tell you to mute before you guess. Jesus. All right. Just once I want to talk to someone in person and be like, I like grapes and have them be like, I hate grapes, you piece of shit.

That's a conversation, right? Like, I have friends that you go, man, this is my favorite album. And they go, that shit sucks. I can't believe you listen to that, right? But like the internet version, and I'm not the first person to say it, as you go, I like grapes. And you're like, Oh, okay. So I guess strawberries are dog shit.

And it's like, we're not talking about if you want to bring up strawberries, I'll have that conversation on your terms. Some people have smaller throats and are more likely to choke on grapes. They can't even do a dog. It'll make it really sick. And like, okay. Well, I'm not feeding them to a dog, it'll make it really sick. You're like, okay. Well, I'm not feeding them to my dog. And I do like grapes more than strawberries.

You guys can come for me in my replies. I love a nice, a grape that has that real pop to it. Oh. That's a good piece of fruit right there. So freaking good. Now I'm craving grapes. I like strawberries. You can also pop those grapes in the freezer. Mmm.

That's real nice. It's nice. I just prefer them. I like them cold. I keep them in the fridge so they're nice and cold. I love almost everything cold. Put a little pretzel stick in a grape. Delicious snack.

Okay, that's interesting. I've never even tried that. Trust me, trust me. Nature's lollipop. I don't know that I do trust you, but we'll try it. With the pretzel, yeah, but like that's not, you know. Pretzels don't occur in nature. The nature part is the lollipop part. Exactly. Yeah.

Okay. Well we're going to do a hard pivot. Talk about the news now. We're going to definitely talk about the news. It'll be less fun, but yeah, the, the lead story today is tragic accident. Sorry. Assault attack. story today is tragic accident, sorry, assault attack on the world central kitchen aid truck. Jonathan, why don't you set up this story for us that we can react? Right. Well, earlier this week, Israel's military launched airstrikes on a caravan of aid workers in Gaza, killing seven people, including three British nationals, an Australian, a Polish national, an American-Canadian dual citizen, and a Palestinian.

These were aid workers for the World Central Kitchen. The trucks were marked. Israel claims this was a tragic accident. We know how that has been going lately. A lot of tragic accidents. A lot of frequency of accidents. Tragic accident for a caravan that was fully registered or whatever had shared their location. A lot of targeted accidents. It seems odd. You know, they have to, you know to alert people that they're entering and making these deliveries. It's not a surprise that they were there. But yes, this is an accident. Sorry.

No, not at all. The World Central Kitchen has been operating with the help of the IDF to identify places where they can go, routes they should take. So if it is a tragic accident, it is really showing the limitations of the IDF's apparent pinpoint precision. Just before we started recording, the Biden administration for the first time threatened to change US policy if treatment of civilians in Gaza does not improve. Biden had a apparently terse conversation with Benjamin Netanyahu where he made this threat and Secretary of State Antony Blinken said if we don't see the changes we need to see there will be a change in our policy. Not sure if we can believe that, but it

is definitely the first time they have threatened to do so. And certainly the first time they've, I can't put like, credit words do. This is, to be clear, this is six months out. Six months out, they're like, if things don't change, we're gonna have to give you a spanking. But to the credit, they're saying it out loud. This is after, again, six months of these like little articles, private, like, Biden's so upset about this and what's going on. He's so angry. He's he's pooping angrily. He's peeing angrily. He just can't he can't keep in his anger. But he has been at least publicly. So this is at least something out loud about how it's it's

frustrating because one of the lines that you have I've seen a lot of over the past several months is that they're doing everything they can in their little private meetings. No evidence to really support that. But also that they can't do anything. I've heard that so many times that, like, there's actually nothing that Biden can do in terms of, like, pressure and stuff that would actually affect this.

But clearly there is, because otherwise, why are they saying it finally? Well, he did approve more bombs to be sent to Israel on the day of sure attack. That would be one thing to start with. I mean, even that right, that seems like such a basic refutation of there's nothing we can do about it. Like, I think, you know, kind of finger wagging with one hand and then giving over kind of unfettered amounts of money for military aid is, it feels pretty transparent. Like, it's not, I don't know who is being fooled by this

or for whom they're putting on that show. It's really stressful and so sad. And the day before that these aid trucks were bombed was sad, right? And the day before that, and like, it just seems for Biden to say, and like, I can't know how the future will unfold, but it does. It's like, if none of the previous things that other people have said, well, this should be a red line was a red line.

Then what is the if you don't knock it off point? Yeah. And apparently it might be if the Biden administration specifically and Joe Biden specifically knows of the person in charge of the organization and has some like vague personal connection to them. Yes, a celebrity founder. Right, that's what it seems to be, is like there are all these reports from like, from in the White House of these conversations

of like how they're so upset and how like this, the phrase, like one phrase was literally, this hits different because they know this person and they're familiar with it. Also, like, we could unpack the phrase, this hits different for days if we wanted to. First of all, cultural appropriation, Joe. Yeah.

I mean, there was only one Palestinian in this convoy, so maybe that's part of what hits different. I think that's certainly what they're referring to, right? I think so, too. I think it's certainly what they're referring to, right? I think so too. People from North America being killed, which I think is a tragedy. Death is a tragedy. And it's just so overwhelmingly sad.

And it's so overwhelmingly terrible to feel like every, like when I pay my taxes, whatever, this week, next week, that's what it's going towards. And it stinks. And even if we take the accident explanation on its face, which we shouldn't, I don't think at this point, you don't get to make those kinds of accidents. No, you don't.

Like there are certain things, like if I ran over a guy with my car, even if it's an accident, it's still like, well, there are consequences to that. I know I wasn't trying to and I can't just go like, whoops, and maybe there are different consequences. But there's so much that's happened in the wake of the tragedy of October 7th that you just go, but you don't get to do that. I know that there was death and I know that there are hostages, but this is not the this is not an allowable solution. It's not a humane solution. It's not a moral solution. And it's like, I think

not checking those excuses even on their face is like bizarre to me. Right? Yeah. It's such a good point. This administration, obviously, but just the general decades of propaganda. And it's so effective in allowing this to happen unchecked without any sort of pushback that isn't instantly framed as like, oh, you hate. It's just so dishonest, every sort of pushback on this. And it's tough because it's like, some of us

have been saying this for the entire time. And some people are coming around to it now. And I don't want to shame anybody coming around to it now. I'm just glad that more and more people are. Because we've talked about this a lot, complicated and not complicated. I know that your personal history tied to this conflict in the various stages.

And if you've grown up with stories of this, like I, I understand that it's complicated first for a lot of people, but it, we're seeing this play out before our eyes. This is, it's beyond all comprehension and horrifying for us to be sitting here watching it unfold. I think I'm going to, I'm going to throw this out. I didn't have Jonathan, you look this up and add to our research, but you know, I think part of the reason why some shifting stances from the administration who has not been surprised they, if we could see it sitting here watching the news unfold, what's been happening, they've seen it. They've known it. The pressure on Biden for this election

is going to keep ratcheting up. I mean, in Wisconsin, I think the non-committal vote came back really like more than the percentage that he won Wisconsin. And I don't have the exact numbers, but it's like stuff like that is probably maybe, maybe it's starting to register to him. And like Jonathan, you mentioned in the notes here, like, yeah, Donald Trump has already gone on record saying like, Israel, you need to sew this up, you need to end this. The chides are changing in terms of public perception. And I think you're right, Jonathan, like, we'll see a point where he's staunchly against the war, maybe or something. I think it's all posturing to like, it's the kind of thing like we shouldn't.

Of course it is. Take him at his word. But he but people do. And if you have that contrast, even if it's fake, which everything he says is basically bullshit. Yeah, you can point to like, you know, three months ago he would have been calling all Palestinians animals and like, we gotta get in and all.

He was saying some pretty gnarly stuff a couple months ago, it was my memory, right? Yeah, yeah. And he will always do that. He will always. But the perception is he's saying that this needs to be buttoned up or whatever and Biden's like, ah

I'm secretly very upset right now, right? Yeah, Trump is awful and will continue to be awful, but I Don't put it past him to try to take advantage of Biden's weakness among young people Trump may be believing these Absolutely these ridiculous polls that show he's ahead with people under 34, which I simply don't buy. Like, that's just not the case. But you know, Biden has been very poor on this issue for progressives, and maybe his aides finally got to him that like, this is going to cost you if you continue to just give them weapons and have there be no

consequences. So it's bad that it took this long. It's bad that it took a group of white aid workers instead of 30,000 Palestinians to make this move from the Biden administration, but it is good that they have done it now. Obviously, we'd want to see follow through because I don't believe Israel is going to stop. I don't know that this is a seismic shift in our policy or theirs, but we'll see. Yeah. And I hope that, right? Like I don't, I voted, I cast a blank ballot in New York in the primary, which I think is like a fairly gentle form of protest, right? That it is like, it does not help Donald Trump win anything. It did not help. Primary stuff. You're free. Yeah.

It didn't help get Marianne Williamson the nomination, who I read yesterday suspended her campaign in February and then has since unsuspended it. Oh, wow. Which is beautiful. Just going with the stars. And the vibes. She's reading the vibes. She's reading the vibes, for sure. I'm pretty sure she unsuspended it after she beat Dean Phillips in his own state by like a percent. Sorry.

He's out too. And she kind of like marginally beat him in New York. But I think in New York, it was something like 12% of people cast blank ballots in the primary. And maybe that doesn't sway. Maybe they go, we can take the 12% hit in New York. But hopefully, just from a pragmatic point of view, it does send a message that not that this many people

want to vote for Donald Trump and want him to be president, but this many people are saying, we're not satisfied with your stance. And this primary ballot is the only way to be heard really in a way that's effective. Because people have tried for six months to be heard by speaking out and writing and marching in the streets. And that just seemingly hasn't moved the needle at all. Yeah, I did the same thing. I don't know what the turnout. I mean, I voted for everything I could. And I left President Blank. I'm not voting for Donald fucking Trump, obviously, but it was like, I, what, I don't, I didn't feel good.

What can I do here? People have lines. And this line has been crossed for a long time. And it's been clear that that's been happening. And it's also like, it's, I don't know, it's very sad and frustrating. And there are even these stories of it's they're so dismissive of this kind of thing, in a way that is is really gross. There's a story, just from like yesterday, this other closed door meeting, not one of the closed door meetings when Biden was like, I'm so upset. But there were some Muslim American community leaders that met with the president. And one of them was a doctor and they showed Biden these prints of these photos

of malnourished children and women in Gaza. And Biden was like, I've seen those images before, like doing his like, I've seen those before, it's really bad. They were their photos. She printed them from her phone. He did not see those photos. It's just this sort of like lip,

this like private lip service to like, whoever to try to smooth things over. And I just don't know if that's gonna it's not I don't know. I'm it's worrisome. Very worrisome. You know, you have all the all the pod save guys are now out and being like this is fucked. And then you see like a bunch of blue MAGA people being like, Oh, I hate the far left Pod Save America guys now. It's like, what is going on? Yeah, it's like the most, I think we'll get to this later,

but it's the most kind of impotent politically that I've felt since. And obviously I come, I have an immense amount of like social privilege that I'm like, yeah, of course, America was built for guys vaguely like you. But the most since the Roe v Wade memo, right, that it was going to be overturned. And it was just like, Fuck, things are going to keep getting worse until the person turning up the dial of worse is either fought back hard enough or decides that they're tired of making things worse. Yeah. Yeah, and like, and that's another example of like, because there was quite a lot of vocal outrage

when that memo was leaked. Yeah. And then weeks later, it actually happened. And then you just get a stream of like, donate to President Biden's reelection campaign. It's like, have you been like typing up this link for a month to prepare for this? It just seems like there's no. We already voted for him to protect his rights.

Yeah, it feels like they've been caught off guard every step of the way. And like we've seen the headlights coming down the dark road for like hundreds of yards. Right. And they're just. Yeah. And then this happens. And they're like, oh, wow. They they the the car finally hit an animal that I am sad about, you know. And it's like, no, we've been talking about this for so long. I don't mean animals. I didn't want to make that connection. But to follow your metaphor, I'm using the word animal. Yeah. But yeah,

we get it. You think women are animals. Well, let's calm down, Katie. Yeah, it's again this sort of predicted stream of events over and over. We know also that we, America, the country, give the IDF like information of where humanitarian groups will be. And this isn't the first time they've like laid devastation upon those areas that we indicate are where humanitarian aid is. And now there are even like stories coming in that like some group, some groups are turning around like a like

less it like that is part of the goal here, right? Is to like, terrify people bringing in aid and to starve these people. Uh, it works twofold. That's a really, really important part of this that we didn't get to is that now the future of aid to these people that are in a famine, if not yet. Again, last week we were like, when is it officially a famine or not? They've been starving for months.

Now those two aid ships turned around and headed back to Greece or wherever. And- Yeah, it just like, even if, you know, this like, oh, they're turning around, they'll come back. And this is like, it's not actually going to do that. It does create this more dangerous tense situation. And it also does illustrate that this is part of the goal is to starve these people and to deprive them of even more aid. We're going

to talk a little bit about AI in another realm down the line today, but there's also this reporting about a lot of their AI targeting the IDF. Like we've talked about this before, the sort of disconnect of like, oh, we're the best military in the world. They're amazing targeting, but they seem to keep fucking killing people who shouldn't be killed. And part of that is they have these AI systems and they designate targets and will often wait until they get home to do these strikes.

Like they're waiting for them to be home. That's like the quote, like the safest place, I guess, because they know like, oh, they're there. But it's their home, their family is there. That's one of the reasons why so many women and children are being killed because they have these targets that they want to get. They have AI to tell them when they are home

and then they strike. It's just like this very obvious pattern of behavior that we're being told constantly isn't happening. And then this, something like this happens and then they're like, well, Israel will do their internal investigation. And we need to make sure they do that. What? It's so I feel like what people the disconnect that that feels so obvious to me and like maybe this is maybe facile, but like, just that like all the people are people. And I think people, a couple of months ago,

before I just stopped engaging with kind of nonsense on the internet, people would go, but this is war. And this happens in war. And I go, yeah, and it's bad. It's always bad. Maybe instead of justifying the deaths of innocent people by saying like, this is the cost of war, we should be reevaluating what human costs we're willing to accept from our actions and the actions of countries we're allied with. I don't think that's like an outrageous thing

to posit. And people go, well, I mean, as a Jew, which I only say because people can't necessarily see my face, that are listening to this podcast, but as a, or they may have forgotten my name, as a Jew, the idea of people bringing this back to like, well, the Hamas is trying to do another Holocaust. And you go, yeah, I'm not allied with the political aims of Hamas, but I think you have to go like, like if, if like three guys outside my apartment on my block were like, we're going to do the Holocaust again. I'd be like, well, that's bad, but that doesn't mean that you should blow up Brooklyn. You know, like it's it just is when people think of it near them, I where people don't think of it ever happening near them or do people like them? You know, it's it's just really I'm sorry, I'm rambling, but it's just another thing for those three guys to go home and then blow up their entire apartment. Their families. Like, yeah, yeah.

It's just like who has the means to carry out certain actions right now? for those three guys to go home and then blow up their entire apartment. Yes, and blow up their families. Basically, like, yeah. It's just like, yeah. And like, who has the means to carry out certain actions right now? Right. We know what the IDF is capable of. We know what Hamas is capable of. Both bad things, but there's like the scale and degree of devastation is pretty obvious. I also say Az a Jew all the time

because my last name also does not indicate my... I just have to make sure everyone hears that. I appreciate it. I mean, and all of this is... I mean, I agree with everybody completely. We have to take an ad break in a second. I would add that... Can I just... As an Italian, I need to... Sorry. Well, it's. I just would add that I need to. Well, I've been waiting for the Italian for the Italian perspective. Please weigh in from judging. It's just like the whole conversation also.

You know, you can. How far back do you want to take it? How far back do you want to go for the roots? But in terms of modern history. You know, when they say like Hamas has rejected this deal, How far back do you want to take it? How far back do you want to go for the roots? But in terms of modern history, you know, when they say like Hamas has rejected this deal, ceasefire, like, well, what was the offer for them? Who's going to be released on their side? It's so, the whole framing of it.

And it's not me defending Hamas in any capacity, but what these actions are doing is radicalizing more people. All this is doing is making the problem and the conflict worse. And at its core, we've got two groups of people with a deep seated history to the region that want to have their homes. Anyway, we do need to take a break. We get to take a break. We get to take a break and listen to just one ad, just this one ad, and then we'll be

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back, patreon.com slash some more news. Check it out! And we are back as promised for even more news. We're gonna pivot to something that we kind of already referenced. The Florida abortion ban. Jonathan, what's going on in Florida? Okay, so I believe what you're referring to, Katie, is the thing we're talking about, which is that Florida's Supreme Court ruled this week that the state's constitution does not protect abortion rights so that a six-week abortion ban can go into effect on May 1st. However, the Florida Supreme Court also ruled that an amendment to enshrine abortion rights into the state's constitution could go on the November ballot, which would require 60% voter approval. But that's a success for the

Democrats and their strategy to get abortion on the ballot in as many states as possible to drive progressives to the polls. Abortion is going to be on the ballot in Florida and potentially in Arizona, Colorado, Missouri, Montana, and several other states. There is also an equal rights amendment that would enshrine abortion rights against any future threats on the ballot in New York state as well. Yeah. I mean, my God, I just feel like I've been living under the hell of this conversation for years now. I don't feel like I know I have back to, you know, the impotent, like to feel like you have no power control over anything.

However, the fact that so many people show support for this constitutional amendment to protect it. Am I getting this right, Jonathan? They support the constitutional amendment to protect the people's rights. Who does? The Florida Supreme Court? No, like people, they're going to put it on the ballot. They've allowed us to put it on the ballot. Oh, like you mean like popularity wise? So this is, popularity wise, this is an opportunity for people to show up and vote.

And in some ways, that's like probably good for Democrats in Florida, because it's not a state that we take. Yeah, but it's also just like really cynical. It's mobilizing. Yeah. To be clear, I don't think this is going to flip Florida. No, I don't think so. In the presidential election, They have an ability in Florida to still vote for Republicans up and down the ballot while approving progressive bills like a $15 minimum wage or allowing former felons to vote and

perhaps this one as well. This one could get 62% and be in the state's constitution, but then Rick Scott could get reelected and they'll go for Trump by 14 points. Yeah. And I'm not trying to suggest otherwise, but especially on a year like this, but there is something to be said about continuing to prove how unpopular these conservative policies are, how at odds with the best interests of just average people. Oh yeah, I mean, that's always like, been the case for a long time of like, yeah, people do support like generally democratic policies. They just don't like Democrats and specifically Joe Biden. That's one of the frustrating parts is that like there's not necessarily, I'm

not saying the entire party, but like a party that really does champion the things that the majority of people really do believe in. Yeah, the Democrat, right, the Democratic platform rather than if putting aside using electoral power, right, and legislative power to enact these policy changes, which I think the record is mixed. But like the Democratic platform overall is closer to what people want, right? Like freedoms, bodily autonomy, right? The Democrats champion in a lot of ways. And things like the Medicaid expansion, right? Very popular even in Republican states is a more Democratic backed policy. And so it is destabilizing to go like, yeah, I fucking love this guy who's going to do this thing that I'm going to want to go back to the polls

and vote against even when I'm voting for this guy who's going to do this thing that I'm going to want to go back to the polls and vote against even while I'm voting for this guy again. And it is, it is that I don't mean that in a way of like voter shaming. I just wish there was a messaging or some kind of way to reach the people and go like, Hey, this is the person running that actually has more of your interests at heart. Right. There is like some institutional power behind this for the things that you're believing in. Even welfare holds really well with Republicans. If you don't call it welfare. Yeah, I forget the phrase that they it was like hell.

Like, yeah, like like financial assistance to poor people, I think is how you phrase it. But like when it's phrased like welfare, it's bad. But if you just describe what welfare is, they support it. It's very embarrassing, but also frustrating in fact. Yeah, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no, sorry. And I think sometimes there is a case of people

not liking the Republican, coming back to vibes, right? And just being like, I like this guy. This guy's talking to me. The other candidate doesn't seem to be. And then some of it is like, you really have to consider what interest is trumping this, right? And I don't mean that in a punny way at all. I wasn't trying to do something to you there. He ruined language, it's fine. I know, it sucks.

There's only so many words we have. Yeah. And he really fucked up one of them. But I think sometimes you go, oh, there are people that want. Yeah, I mean, I would like abortion to be legal. But what I really want is my taxes to be a little lower. And like that is, I think, an informed choice that some people make. And I don't agree with it, but I don't think it's always people being like tricked and. Right. Yeah, they're considering these things like, yeah. Because if you can get it enshrined in law in some way with a vote

and then also get your freak guy in office with a vote to you're going to do both of those. And it's not necessarily contradictory, even though that freak will probably try to stop that from being made. Yeah. Ron DeSantis is I mean, that dude's a freak and he it's like his animating force, like his animating thing is hurting people. Right. And and in Florida, I don't think he's like some kind of beloved conquering hero in Florida, necessarily. But he certainly won, has won the election enough times that like he's not eligible to run anymore. Right.

He's isn't he about to hit a term limit of some kind? Oh, I run with that. A gubernatorial term term limit. Jonathan the eagle. Oh, my goodness. I don't know off the top of my head. I mean, he's talking to my ass. I can type it faster. It just kind of seems that he runs through the greatest hits of what.

You know, target audience, what have you. I mean, he signed a 15 abortion ban two years ago and then signed a six week ban. It's like, I just have to keep going on this because this is what I can talk about publicly. This is what excites my base is just doubling down on this. You already did one, bro, two years ago. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, yeah, one, bro, two years ago. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, yeah, feeding, you know, feeding the chum.

There are no limits on how many times you can be governor of Florida, but you can only do it twice in a row. Okay, so he has to take a sit back for a bit. Yeah, yeah, he's got to. So he's got to lose another presidential election. Correct. And then he can be governor again.

It's too bad he's painfully young at the moment. He's always surprisingly younger than you think. How old is he again? He's like 45, right? He's like 45. Yeah, it's wild. He has the Ronald Dion DeSantis, my goodness. It's just that he has the gait of a Trumpian, like, 78-year-old.

Yeah, he's got boomer. He's very boomer-coded, for sure. He's boomer-coded, old. Yeah, he's got boomer. Because he's trying to model his body. He's very boomer coded for sure. He's boomer coded, yes. Yeah, you're right, his gait, his walk, is like the way he carries himself is a, I feel like a golem of some kind. Not like Lord of the Rings golem, but like a golem. A golem. Part of that is the shoes.

Yeah. With the lifts. It's tough. I feel like, sorry, this is a thought I had like 10 minutes ago. I feel like we're a center left country basically for 85% of the issues. But then Republicans are just very successful at making immigration the thing every four years. Immigration, taxes, guns, right? Like, there's a few things that they...

I think guns is one that people... That is a divide in how people think even more than abortion, right? Which, like, affects, I think, probably more people on a more humane, bodily level, a more human, bodily level than having a gun does. But I think that is like an animating force for a lot of people. Absolutely.

It's so wrapped up into the, our fabric of this country and to people's personal identities that it's, you know, an affront to who you are to think that you might not have access to your guns, which you always fucking will. And that's right, Democrats have kind of rolled over on that, right? There'll be a mass shooting, and then there's a lot of posturing. It's like, oh, it's time. We got to do something about this. But the Supreme Court's like, no, you don't. And we won't let you. And so they're like, And I think to what the point about was a Katie's point just now about Democrats rolling over a

little bit, right? It's like, there's nobody taking as hard a line position against guns as the mainstream Republican position is for guns, right? Which is have as many of anything as you want. That's like what the pile. Yeah, exactly. And I think that's also because that would be a losing issue for them. I don't think that they really want to wade into that territory. That would take a lot of bravery. Yeah, I feel like Beto is the only one who like gave it a go and it didn't work for him.

And I think people I think a lot of people just sort of saw that and decided like, well, can't do that. Yeah, that doesn't work. He did pick quite an ambitious place to try the no guns. I know. It's like, come on, Beto, what are you doing? Read the statement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Try Vermont. There's guns there, but there's also not guns there. Yeah, exactly.

That's a good place to soft launch this. Just move, Beto. Just move. It's fine. People like guns there, but not, it's not, yeah. Texas. They don't like a Texas much. Got a bright future in another state. Yeah. And we're going to end on one more slightly lighter story.

Jonathan, do you have something to tell us about Amazon? I do. Oh, I know the answer. Oh, Amazon. Tell me more. You don't say. Amazon is ending their check out list technology in their Amazon fresh stores, or at least they're phasing out Just Walk Out, which is the feature that relied on cameras and sensors to track what people were leaving the store with. It turns out that the system was heavily reliant on more than 1,000 workers in India who would

watch the video and fix the problems with the AI, but there's definitely a human element to this is what you're saying this. Yeah, there's a yeah, it's just not that one where you have to actually interact with anybody. Exactly. It's a little unclear in the reporting. It seems like they're like part of it was that they were like literally like reviewing the videos to to like figure out out how much the person owed. But part of it was reviewing the videos to help train the model. Right. And I believe the reporting that I saw, I wish I could cite my source,

but the reporting that I saw was that out of they were hoping to get to a point where out of a thousand items, they would only need to human check 20 to 50 of them to like, which is, like, you know, yeah, 25%. And that and that's that seems like, sure, I get that not every technology is perfect, but they were still up around 700, I believe 700 human reviews per one thousand percent driving or seven out of 10 self-driving Teslas just had a guy in the hood driving without the city. Like you guys tiny chauffeur, which honestly, they probably should whispering to you. Which honestly they probably should if you've seen.

They probably should at this point. I don't understand why this ever needed to happen. Because AI is a scam to get rid of workers and to hide labor so that you can have cheaper labor overseas or wherever to do this. And it's just like AI is a bubble. It's going to burst some sometime soon. There's no like you're not making money, actually.

It's got it costs so much energy and money and resources, and it's not actually producing much of anything useful. But like you see, AI advertised every billboard I see now, every ad I see is like powered by AI, it's the same technology as like five or 10 years ago, it's just the buzzword is there. But like you'll see every once in a while like Wendy's or like McDonald's or like a fast food place will be like, we opened the first workerless store

and they've got all these like screens out front and look how there's no people here. Amazing technology. There are people working there in the back. They make the fucking burgers in the back and they they they do the orders. It's just hiding the workers. I went through a Carl's Jr. like I didn't know this. I pulled up to the drive through and it was like please order as you normally would for our Automated assistant I went out Christ here we go

And I like ordered my thing and then it didn't say like do you want anything else or thank you? That'll be 1250 at the red. It didn't say anything. So after all I went okay, you know, and then I like moved through and then the This poor woman at the counter was like, OK, you wanted a superstar with cheese? And I was like, nope, I wanted this and that. And she's like, all right. You know, just called into the back. And it's like, oh, this poor worker has been destroyed by this stupid machine all day, which can't hear anything, doesn't know what's going on.

And that's like not even a super helpful use case for customers, right? All this technology is being employed, as you were saying, Cody, is like for the benefit of the companies and like at the ultimate expense of labor, but at the expense of customer satisfaction, right? Like that's how it all goes. It's always like, oh, this is slightly worse

than if a person was there, right? And it stinks, nobody wants it. The Amazon thing, the like no oh, this is slightly worse than if a person was there. Right. And it stinks. Nobody wants it. The Amazon thing, the like, no checkout checkout feels almost like the best use case. Right. I can imagine wanting to go into a place, put three things in my bag and walk out. I'm not saying like that's something I think is morally good for what it does to a workforce, but like, at least I can see that being enticing in the way like Spotify is a million labor valuations wrapped up in a nice shiny package, right? And so that at least I can see going like,

oh, that would be convenient. And then for that still to not work at all is like, guys, let's just shut it down and pay people to do the things. Right, like, yeah. It's like, it didn't work and we needed a thousand people overseas to like, to do the things. Right, like, yeah. It didn't work and we needed a thousand people overseas to like, to do the work.

Yes. To pretend that this is like the wave of the future. It also just feels so dystopian to me personally. I guess I could see the appeal. I'm a strange person. I enjoy interacting with people at the market specifically. Sure.

Like, I like. It's nice, it's community. It's nice. It helps people's moods. It helps you say hi to a stranger every day. That helps your mood. It helps your mood. It helps their mood. And it's nice. Like you said, community. There's a little corner store that I go to almost every day

for something eggs or whatever. I don't you know, the guy and I don't know each other super well. It's nice to and it's also nice to have like the regular amount of dystopian security cameras pointed at you instead of a hundred that are like looking into your genome. Yeah, zooming in exactly. Yeah, they're like scanning my body mass or some shit and like planting chips. That's Katie's elbow.

Yeah. Right. And even like having like, like Jonathan, your scenario of like, okay, the machine takes my order, but you can at least talk to a person. If the system works and took your order correctly, I feel like there's been like 10 or 15 years of all of us experiencing, I know every time I call a number where I need to talk to somebody and it's this automated system, 10 minutes in, I'm yelling my phone, I need to talk to a human being.

Like everybody experiences that. There's no better experience from adding robots to customer service. And every time when you get to the human being, they ask you all the things that you've already confirmed with the robot, right? So it's like even the robot isn't even doing intake and triage, yeah?

No, it's just keeping you busy. Yeah. When you call an airline and you go, oh, my flight got canceled. I need to reschedule. Here's my flight number. And they go through a bunch of options that aren't satisfactory because the robot doesn't know what you need. And then the person gets on and then they ask you to confirm all the same shit. It's not like you have it perfectly down. And it's like, oh, they've saved you time that you did something

while you were waiting, you've saved them time. They don't have to take the 60 seconds to do intake and they can handle more of the meat of these calls. No, it is all duplicative and redundant. And like, when I get to the person who's like, and your name? And I'm like, you should know my name by now. I'm sorry, I wish I could yell at the robot,

but I can't hurt its feelings. Right. The the the business plan of a stunning number of industries in this country is we hope you give up before you get to the thing spectrum. I am promised a speed that I have never received and I just pay it every month now because I gave up trying to get it fixed. Trying to find a doctor like hope I'm healthy. Like you give up because they've made it so impossible. And they're like, yeah, this is a way we can just like keep you farther away from anyone who could help you. Yeah. Waste people's time. Extend the time. Yeah. Make sure that the automation does the job well enough

that it keeps the customers just alive enough to keep paying for the service. Right. And like it's yeah, it's like you're it's like designed to like keep you right on the edge. Yes. Like I'm so mad, but I'm not mad enough to I got to OK, fine. And there's nothing. Yeah, you get up there. The race to the bottom has been so rapid. Like there was truly, I mean this, and this is not everybody's position, if there was an airline that charged 10% more for an economy ticket, you would never get the cheapest ticket. And it might even be 15% more.

But every time you wanted to get something done, you could call and talk to a person in a reasonable amount amount of time and they would never try to hit you with like hidden fees. It would all be like if it was anything interfacing, I would pay such a premium for that. But they decided that the cost of providing that premium outstrips how much they'd be able to charge. Yep. Right. Because then you need to pay that that person more. All right. To keep them like friendly and all that. I just haven't flown in a very long time. Oh, I fly so much. And it's I want to. I'd like to take a vacation. I don't. Oh, vacation. Sure. The flying though.

The people that I dealt with, the humans, I had to I missed a flight because my rental car died. It was like negative seven degrees in Chicago and I had to get I missed a flight because my rental car died. It was like negative seven degrees in Chicago and I had to get a jump and like, I didn't think that calling the rental car place cause I've done that and had their automated thing. And like, I was like, I'm just going to call a local guy which didn't work.

But when I got to the counter, like they, the, the assistant, whether it was a person or a fake person was like pretty helpful. But when I got to the airport and talked to the person, and I'll shout her out, she was a Delta employee in Etowahara Airport, and she was so helpful and so kind. And that is, if I have that experience with someone versus the experience of like, I have to change a flight

and they go, actually the cost to cancel is more than the cost of the ticket. I will spitefully never book with them again and like run through a wall in rage. But you remember this. You remember this experience. You might even remember that person's name. You might don't need to say it, but like you probably remember the person's name. And like, you know, it's Delta. And like that sticks with you and you're going to try to do that again.

Yeah. And she was it was so helpful. And like this isn't that Delta is good morally. You know, it's just like that experience. But that person made your experience of traveling much better than it could have been or would have been otherwise. That's it. It's everything. Yes. And that's not there's no. And this isn't me going like I wish there were some fancy concierge service, right?

Where like, a Delta employee gives me a piggyback ride to the airport and checks my baggage for me. And like, I just want like, when something, when in the normal course of business, I would like to be able to talk to someone kindly and helpfully that is kind and help, you know, kindly and thoroughly, that is kind and help you know, kindly and thoroughly. That is like kind and helpful to me in an on a timeline that is not like glacial biblical.

Yeah. Or so fast because they want to get it over with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even actually address the thing. Totally. Human beings can do that. I'll tell you what can't. Probably a robot that needs a thousand people to operate a thousand people to do seven to get a 70 percent failure rate. It's like it just is seeing all that. Yeah. I mean, it's yeah, truly. For that. For. Yeah. But not what we want. A thousand employees in India. Right. Because because if to pay people in America to do that

would make it, they might as well just not do AI, right? Right, to pay workers here. So it's just like, gosh. And this seems to be the case with so much in AI, right? Like they just have this money runway because they're like, oh, we're like wizards. And people with money are like, cool, wizards rule. And then in like 10 years, it's all going to be like,

actually, magic doesn't exist, but we've destroyed science. So we the human species time and time again, keep doubling down on things that are bad ideas and being like, in hindsight, that was a bad idea. Again, all this, like just like all the other, all the marketing around AI is just so effective for the dumbest richest people in the world to glom onto. And then it just makes all of us

have to fucking suffer for it. And they never, they never tout the successes. That's, it's always this wild fantasy of what AI could be. It's never like, hey, auto corrects pretty good, huh? We nailed that one. That's on that. Let's build from there. No, no, no, you gotta.

Yeah, someone out there is saying ducking and we're gonna make sure that they have great experience. Nobody at this point is like, I mean, you can change the thing on your phone, right? But there are so few people that stand on the principles like I wanna spell how the fuck I wanna spell, right? It's like, I people that stand on the principles like, I want to spell how the fuck I want to spell. Right. It's like, this is fine. Let the robot do it. It's fine. It's fine.

They don't. I can't even feel the buttons. It's flat. Just let the robot do some of it. I think we did it, guys. I think we did, too. I think we talked about some stuff. We had some fun and now our time is done because we keep it around the same time for us to turn around by tomorrow. But this was delightful. Josh, what plugs can you share?

Plug it, plug it all. How do people follow you, find you? I'm at Josh Gondelman on Twitter and Instagram and now TikTok. Straightforward. I've got a little 10 minute mini special that I just shot with Don't Tell Comedy that's coming out. Or that's out now and you can find it on YouTube. I'm on tour.

I am going this weekend to New Orleans and then. Flying Delta? Yes. Yeah. Flying home. Excuse me, flying home JetBlue I think just because of timing. But next month I'm going to the Cincinnati area, which is actually Kentucky. I'm going to San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Burlington, Vermont. And then in June, I have a show in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, little tiny theater that I think will probably sell out soon. We had a second show. And then the late show I'm taping a new stand up special. In June 21 at the bell house in Brooklyn, early show sold out

late show getting there. And one more plug, I'm just fucking rambling. I apologize. I do. Every Monday, I write a newsletter called That's Marvelous. It is full of pep talks and just like jokes and bits. And I shout out stuff that I think is fun. And it's free. And it tells you about when I'm going to go on tour and all that stuff. So it it's free. And it tells you about when I'm gonna go on tour and all that stuff. So it is truly free and if you don't like it, you get away.

But if you do, hang out. It's like, it's really- You're gonna like it. I have a really fun- Some people hate newsletters. The nicest guy online and in comedy. Thank you. You gotta check it out.

JoshGondolin.substack.com I know, there's too many. I just- No, it's not at all. I'm busy as usual. I just want people to go follow you and find you and check out those dates because I'm sure people want to come and see you. It's all in the newsletter to and on my website. So if you forgot any of them, you don't have to hit the minus

15 second button three times and try to get the right one. If you want, you can. You can. You can hit it 240 times and go back the whole episode. Just do the whole thing. Yeah, if you wanna just redownload it and keep listening and all that, and then fast forward to the end to get those plugs. That's right.

You can do that if you want. That's right. I don't know. This was fun, this was great. Covered a lot of territory today. I'm just floundering trying to wrap this up. I always say something at the end and I know people are expecting it.

Say it, say the thing. I wanna say it, I just wanna make sure that it's coming from a really sincere place because I mean it and I'm not sure that everybody believes me when I mean it. But I just, well I want everyone to know that we, yeah the thing you're gonna say, much. The infamous true crime series, Cold Case Files.

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