Some More News - Even More News: Haitian Migrants in Springfield, Deadly Devices in Lebanon

Episode Date: September 20, 2024

Hi, welcome back to Even More News, the first and only news podcast. My name is Katie Stoll, and yes, I'm wearing glasses today. I was going to say, I love your glasses today, Katie Stoll. I love my glasses today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm wearing glasses today. I was gonna say, I love your glasses today, Katie. Love my glasses today. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Cody Johnston. You better be here. I also host the show. How's it going? It's going good because we've got a great guest today.

Everyone's gonna be excited for this. Returning guest, writer, and podcaster, whose latest podcast is called 16th Minute of Fame, which is a deep dive into internet main characters. That's right, everybody, it's Jamie Loftus. Hi, good to see you guys. I should have said podcast phenom because you're unstoppable.

That's true. I love, seriously, content. I'm realizing I've been meaning to do this for like three straight video podcasts now There's just like a bouquet of dead roses behind me and it's perfect a creative choice. They just died It was my birthday a month ago. And so they died They are having their 16th minute of fame right now as is your cat's butt. butt. Yes, oh yeah, that's gonna continue to happen. I'm really ill-suited to this format. It'll be a very dynamic program going on here.

A lot of visual interest, a lot of things to look at. We're all navigating this pivot to video, so. Yes. Let me ask you this, that little skeleton on the wall, is that seasonal or is that year-round? Oh, good question. TBD, TBD, I kind of, I went nuts at Target the other day. I've got a witch on the bathroom.

I've got the skeleton sort of fill in that space. And I got this incredible like doorbell that's an eyeball that screams that my neighbor does not like. I heard him cursing it from behind his door. This sounds like a year round decor to me. Yeah, I don't see myself. What would I replace it with? Well, here's what it is. from behind his door. This sounds like a year round accord to me. Yeah, I don't see myself, what would I replace it with?

Well, here's what it is, it's very classy and sure your neighbor is into it. I genuinely love this for you. Jonathan is also here you guys. Yeah, it's usually just my cat's butt in these videos. So now multiple cat butts here. Holidays, we have them per usual. Oof.

We love it. We love celebrations. Starting off strong with this one. Friday, September 20th is International NFT Day. Oh no. Finally, some do. A day for the fellas. Yeah.

Since the term non-fungible token was coined in 2017, NFTs have gone on to change the way Americans invest, create, and collect art. And if you're watching, you saw the quotes. Indeed, the very concept of ownership and self-expression have evolved for the betterment of mankind because of the advent of NFTs, a time before which is almost hard to conceive of, no it isn't, given how much they have changed society and improved all our lives. Oh, I'm glad that they specified that it changed society for the better. Yeah, because that was up for debate in my opinion. But now that I've read this blurb I

Have to change my entire opinion on NFTs. No, no something you read Yeah, um talk shit about something on their international day Saturday is September 21st is that national? gymnastics day Okay, we like that. Since the first gymnastics competitions in ancient Greece, gymnastics have gone on to change the way Americans invest, create, and collect art.

Indeed, the very concept of ownership and self-expression have evolved for the betterment of mankind because of the advent of gymnastics, a time before which is almost hard to conceive of, given how much it has changed society and improved all our lives. And you know what? I agree with that.

I just love watching all the tiny people flip. I love it. Jamie, podcast phenom, let's talk about your new show real quick, or as much time as it takes. Tell us about 16th Minute of Fame. 16th Minute, yeah, it's been such a fun show to work on. It's about the internet's main characters where generally I will interview an internet main character

years after their viral moment and sometimes also interview experts that can better sort of contextualize what was happening at the time that meant that they went viral, whether it was like a just general societal thing, or a lot of the time if it has to do with how the algorithm was changing

and being programmed at that time to design certain people to pop off even if it felt random at the time. So yeah, I've been covering, like, really anyone who will talk to me. I just did an episode with the overly attached girlfriend who is, like, just so wonderful. She's so nice. She's still, like, making stuff. She seems very great and wholesome and normal. She was awesome.

Like, for this category of person, it can kind of go a couple of different ways and seems like she was normal about it. I've been finding that to be true. Yes, Laila is awesome. She just came back to YouTube. And then there are other ones that are more mystery puzzle boxy.

I was desperately trying to figure out who the Boston slide cop is. And that sort of became a whole episode about how impenetrable it is to get information from the police department if they don't want to be embarrassed. This is a wonderful concept for a show. I am always blown away with, well, how your brain works and how you come up with all of these ideas. Because this is quite brilliant. I'm sure there's a lot of work in tracking down people and doing prep, but it's a fascinating starting point to delve into internet culture as a talking, you know, Ed, very helpful too,

because we're living through new ones in real time, but it helps you start to break down and unpack what's happening when you have these people. I guess you'll have to wait a while for Hock-Twa girl. I know, I keep getting requests for it. I'm like, she's like still in it. I don't know if she's in it right now. She's got her own podcast.

You can't reflect yet, so you're gonna have to keep this show going for a while before you can invite her online. I have to wait until her brain is fully developed to do the episode, really. Have you had any child, phenom, phenom seems to be the word for me today. Child internet sensations, now grown up,

like, I don't know, like the affirmations grow. I've wanted to, so there's a few people who I'm hoping to find the disaster girl, the girl looking over her shoulder. Oh yeah, that's a good one. The same one, it's so weird, because it just makes me feel like I'm in high school again. The Irma Gerd girl, she is-

Oh yeah. An episode I would love to cover, because there's also such a wide range of how you can go viral. I mean, I know you guys know all this, but how like Lena Morris went viral doing a bit. So she was like always sort of in on the joke. And then you have people like the Irma Gird girl

whose like image was uploaded without her consent without context and mocked for years and then ends up in this weird life defining thing. So it's interesting to talk to people who became a main character sort of voluntarily and then other people who this just happens to you and you have to figure out like, do I wanna interact with this at all?

Do I wanna like bail on this? I thought the 30 to 50 feral hogs guy, Willie McDonough had some interesting thoughts on that. I don't know, like it's been really fun. Generally people are super nice and I won't say who's not. Yeah, that's for you to know. We'll ask you after. Off the air.

Yes. So do you have like a, I guess a running, I assume you have like obviously like so many like people that you wanna reach out to and find. Do you have like sort of a running list, now we mentioned the Hock Twa girl, but where like you're kind of, cause you're on the internet all the time,

you see all the things that happen and the people who are entertaining or suck for various reasons and become famous for a day. Do you have like a sort of running list where you're just sort of like, well I'll have to talk to this person in like two years, like where like I can't reach out now and every day you're like, well this person's gonna be talk to this person in like two years, like where like I can't reach out now. And every day you're like, well, this person is going to be good. This person is going to be good. But it's still amidst.

Everything is still happening. Yeah. I have like a list of like circle back or even it's so hard to tell, or I am spectacularly bad at being able to tell who is going to be remembered two weeks from now versus not where I think I've already sort of been like, oh, this guy's going to be remembered two weeks from now versus not, where I think I've already sort of been like, oh, this guy's gonna be around, I'll set up an interview now. And then a couple of weeks later, you're like,

oh, I guess that didn't really hit the way I thought it would because it's so confusing. I don't know, what are your, like who are your, who are your guys? Who are your guys? Charlie bit me. Right, okay, they have to be adults right now, right? They have to be adults.

Charlie, David after Dennis. Apparently kids gotta be getting there. David after Dennis. I would love to know, cause I felt, you know, it's funny, but the boom goes to the dynamite guy from 15 years ago more. Do you guys know that one? I haven't thought about him. He did a like a college like sports report, but he really can't get through it and he's fumbling around and then he's trying to do the highlights of Purdue basketball or something and then he

Someone hits the shot and he stumbles around and goes and boom goes the dynamite Yeah Classic stuff. Cheese wife. Cheese wife, oh yes. Oh, shredded cheese wife. Shredded cheese wife, yeah. I have found, I found that there's so many internet main characters that are like blank wife. And you're like, hmm, I wonder what's behind that.

Blank wife or blank guy? Yeah, I know. Coffee wife, I've done an episode on coffee wife. That was like an early wish list one for me. Is that, every day we have coffee in the garden and it it's wonderful like we have to kill her fucking people we have died today Yeah, this is fascinating Everybody should definitely listen, but we had a second by them news that came out weird But spoiler alert You definitely got it. No, that feels right. That feels right. I like it. I like it.

But spoiler alert, the migrants are not eating the dogs. They're not eating the cats. You spoiled my whole reveal, Katie. Everyone out there listening thinks that's been happening. Yeah, we only touched on this briefly last week because we recorded right after the debate where Donald Trump inexplicably said in Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people who came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the people that live there, which had... I

mean, JD Vance had talked about it, but it was really a right-wing internet thing up until that point. It's still going on. They are doubling down. JD Vance is doubling down, even though the Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that a Vance staffer called the city manager of Springfield, Ohio, before the debate and said, is this happening? Are Haitian migrants in Springfield eating the cats? And they said no. And he's spreading it anyway. It's created quite a bit of racial resentment

of people who live there, of Haitian-Americans who are legally in the country who are given temporary protected status. And it's pretty ugly. This is 100% blatantly racist play, trying to drum up anger amongst the base. And yeah, there was a lot of Haitian migrants there. That's a good thing.

That's a good thing. That's the story of America. There are random state cities across the country where an influx of immigrants will tend to locate for various reasons. You know, they've already got family there. There's job opportunities in Springfield specifically. This whole influx started in what 2017, 2018 under Donald Trump and then increased after

2020 when specifically the plants in this community, manufacturing and agriculture needed workers. And so this is, this is just the story of America. And then in 10 years, you know what, you've got a vibrant community and you start to have a cross culture influence and it's a, and it's a wonderful thing. But they are trying to obviously draw attention to this to create a narrative, and JD Vance admitted as much. Yeah, he did do that. It was wild how quickly Vance admitted

that this was basically just something he was saying to make a broader lie, and this very, I mean, I know that it's talked about a lot, but I mean, I even think about like my mom is a teacher in a, there's a large Haitian population in my hometown. She teaches a lot of Haitian students and had to like talk about this because it does like affect kids immediately. And, you know And whether you are hearing this at home just because your parents had the debate on, it's something that had an immediate impact

on her day to day. And you hear teasing, and it is unfortunately pretty instantaneous. It's terrifying. And then on the other end of that, for Vance to just be like, well, no, you know, I know it's not true. He's basically saying the feeling of it, it feels true to his voter base. So that's what he's going to say. And obviously he doesn't care about the

immediate impact of it. I'd love to play that clip because he does try to cover it up and explain what he means by creating stories. The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump and I started talking about cat memes. If I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people then that's what I'm gonna do Dana because you guys are completely letting Kamala Harris coast. You just said that this is a story that you created. So, so then the eating dogs and fasting is not... We are creating, we are,

Dana, it comes from firsthand accounts from my constituents. I say that we're creating a story, meaning we're creating the American media focusing on it. I didn't create 20,000 illegal migrants coming into Springfield thanks to Kamala Harris's policies. Her policies did that, but yes, we created the actual focus that allowed the American media to talk about this story and the suffering caused by Kamala Harris's policies. Well, it's disgusting. Yeah, you're creating a story to draw attention to a situation, but your story is baseless and has been debunked time and time again,

including by your own campaign before the debate where you said that on stage. Look, I'm sure that some people are not happy with the changes, a small amount of people. That's the growing pains of a city that's evolving. Their economy is flourishing. They're doing better as a city on account of the fact that there is healthy immigration happening.

And the people that you're catering to are gonna have to get over it. Well, yeah, and that's the thing. And they're gonna learn and grow from it. When he says this stuff, I mean, there's so much to unpack just in that little clip, but when he's saying, you know, this is what my constituents are saying,

it's odd. Well, A, they're not illegal immigrants. We mentioned that already. Right. First off. When he talks about, a, they're not illegal immigrants. We mentioned that already. Right. First off. When he talks about like, these are my constituents, I'm just listening to my constituents. Your constituents are also the Haitians who live there legally. Right.

They are also residents of Ohio. So he's their senator too. And I haven't seen anybody like say that to his face, where you're talking about your constituents eating the cats and pets of other constituents in order to talk about this thing that you are worried about and concerned about that you've not mentioned before and not done anything to help out before this just meme thing. He also does that weasel thing where he's like, it's just cat memes. What do the cat memes say? What is the implication? What is the purpose?

What is the effect of those? It's like that weird, like Elon, whenever he's like, it's just memes, describe it, describe them. His Taylor Swift disgusting weird thing he said about how he's gonna force her to have his baby and then take care of her cats or whatever. In response to that, he's like, it's just, people don't appreciate jokes anymore.

Describe the joke, tell us what the punchline of the joke is, tell us what it means. It's a very weasely way to hide behind, like, it's just memes, I don't know what you're talking about. Assault and perversion, what's the problem? Exactly, it's just memes. I don't know you're talking about. Assault and perversion. What's the problem? Exactly. It's that it's that that phenomenon, the thing that Republicans do a lot. And phenomenon specifically where they'll be like, oh, so it's like, what's that

tweets like, oh, so it's illegal to make plans with your friends referring to like conspiracy charges. Like you're just sort of like taking this bad thing that if you described it in detail would be like, well, that sucks. What are you doing? And then using this vague language to sort of like taking this bad thing that if you described it in detail would be like well that sucks What are you doing? And then using this vague language to sort of gloss over it? And he does that so much in this one just in this one clip. It's wild What a piece of shit But just I want to just point out like your constituents are also the Haitians who live there now

So maybe right he's like I'm only a senator for people who are racist. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, and Jamie, you mentioned your mom working with Haitian students and how they're immediately feeling the effects of this. I'm not sure what state she's in, but this has ramifications throughout the country, obviously people's lives, but again bringing it back to his constituents, what's followed this rhetoric and this just wildly irresponsible line of attack that they've promoted to the national stage are bomb threats against schools, against his constituents. An overwhelming

amount, not just at schools, at hospitals, at government buildings. It's terrorizing his constituents and the people that were a part of starting this whole conversation. And this is how it happens. You share a meme, you share a story, and then someone says on Facebook, I've heard from my neighbor's friend's daughter that this happened and That woman that originally started this post has come out and said I'm so sorry used Google Translate to translate an apology To their neighbors because oh, yeah, I was a different story every day like five stories The point is yeah, and all five of them have been oh no that didn't happen Like the Facebook woman was like oh, yeah, I heard this story from like yeah My daughter's friends was like a fourth hand story fourth hand story posted on Facebook blew up

She apologized on Facebook's like I didn't know this was gonna happen like this. This is what was my intention I just posted a thing this other woman is who the Vance campaign Cited they're, oh, yeah, I here's this police report of this woman who her cat went missing and she suspected her Haitian neighbors kidnapped it and ate it. My three days later, two days. Yes, Sassy was the cat. Two days later, she found Sassy in her basement. And then she went to her next door neighbors with the translation

app to apologize. This is again, like the evidence that Vance, the liar and Nazi, I'm just going to say it, has put forth to prove that this is not actually just completely made up. And every single one they put forth is completely made up or this thing. Or like, yeah, you misplaced your cat for a day and blamed your Haitian neighbors because of these rumors that have gotten started. I flippantly just called the J.D. Vance a Nazi. I do want to point out that like this is Nazi stuff. This is what they're doing.

This is taking a group, an ethnic group, a group of people and just cherry picking like these little stories, creating this lie about like, oh, they love eating your pets. They're going to steal your pets. It's just Nazi stuff to highlight. Like, the Washington Post, the New York Post did that, like, look at this car accident that a Haitian man was in.

So what? Excuse me? They're like, what? There are car accidents every day all the time. And that is the Nazi stuff of it. Like pinpointing these like isolated stories and trying to make it about this one community. It's just gross.

And you're targeting these, this group of my immigrants versus others. Like, yeah, we've got different driving rules and laws here in America. That's a whole conversation we can have about people in general coming here and like, but it's not, but you're pinpointing it on this one specific racial group

and making it seem like they're the problem as opposed to like, you know, cars are dangerous and we should have people have licenses. I don't know, it's a totally different conversation. And there are bills right now working their way through Congress about this specifically in general, driving and immigration.

There are people in Springfield, there's this state senator, like this councilwoman who follows Libs of TikTok and Libs of TikTok did her little like racist, like all Haitians or whatever, I don't know what she said, I don't care. And this woman there responded like, hi, I love you in your account. I retweet you all the time.

But this is racist and harmful to this entire community. We're actually working really hard to fix these problems. Like, Kate, you're saying they've got training for driving programs are developing and all this sort of like this legislation to address these problems without having one of the two candidates for president say that they're eating pets on a national stage. Right. Right. It's just like medieval. It's just like such clear anti-black racism. And

I mean, I don't know, that's kind of almost adorable that she's messaging Libs of TikTok to be like, I know that normally you're acting in good faith, so I just want to clarify so that you can continue to act in good faith as you're known to do. Yeah, I find it's just like, it's, I don't know, it is a sort of lie, I feel like, that should not be as potent as it is. I understand why it's so potent, but it's just like, our country's like too well educated

to be falling for these fucking like medieval racist rumors. It's nuts. It is. It's really pathetic and sad. And I there's and they just know that they can do that. They've calculated in some fashion that like, yeah, we can do this. We can just highlight this group and just be weird Nazis about it. And it's been going on for more than a week. And they're still they're not they're not adjusting at all.

Every single lie that they're called on, they're like, well, yeah, we had to. Otherwise, you wouldn't talk about this stuff. And like, there's this also this very fascinating, interesting, sad disconnect going on. There's a video that some YouTuber turned investigative journalist posted where he interviews Springfield residents. And there's a lot of racism in that video. Just slurs, just like handing them out. And they're talking about the Haitians

who live here eating cats. And there's this guy and he's like, yeah, I saw a van with Haitians in there and they had a hundred cats in their van. And then they got pulled over by the police and they told the police they planned on eating the cats. And like the guy was like, wow, that really happened. And he's like, yeah.

End of story. First of all, you claim to be an investigative journalist. No, you're not. You're like a prank YouTube or whatever. There's your lead. You got you got your first lead. They were stopped by the police and told the police that they were going to eat the 100 cats. You could go investigate that with the police. But but amidst that video, there are these like moments

where people are talking about, like, you know, the Haitians are they're taking my food stamps or whatever. And they're causing problems with like affordable housing and all these like welfare programs, these social programs that help people in need. And it's so sad because those are the programs that J.D. Vance and his entire party want to get rid of. They have no interest in those programs. They're making these people fight with these other people for taking, taking stuff.

They're not actually taking, taking stuff that they don't want to provide for them anyway. And it's just this very again, it's very sad and frustrating. Like JD Vance was in an interview like a day ago or two days ago, and he's like, yeah, cut welfare, cut Section 8 housing. That's what he wants to do in terms of cutting programs. And that's those are the things that they're talking about, that the Asians are taking from them. So he's using this racist Nazi lie to demonize an entire group of people

so that he can bring attention to the real problems in that place that he actually wants to exacerbate. He just wants to eliminate social program. It does feel like the internal logic is, well, if I cannot just eject people who are legally here and legally immigrated from the country, what I can do is make it such a hostile environment that they wouldn't want to stay, that it would become impossible. Yes, that and more like immediate is just,

they don't have that much to talk about. And this has superseded any conversation about the debate. We definitely have to move on to advertise rooms at this point. But we'll be right back. Yeah. Hey, how's the election treating you? Bad? Poorly?

Is it treating you bad and poorly? During this extremely important time for accurate reporting, it's pretty frustrating when you're bombarded with pedantic fact checks and misinformation. Not to mention that sites like Twitter or whatever it's called are no longer helpful to actually get the news for some reason. Luckily, I've been using Ground News as my information headquarters. That's a sponsor we at the show sought out. That's both a website and an app that aggregates news from around the world,

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Well, doesn't matter. Point is that for me, Hungry Root is like a little enchilada Lego kid. I get the red enchilada sauce, the cheeses, the beans, the meats, the peanut butter, and the tortillas every week delivered right to my door. And right now Hungry Root is offering some more news listeners 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life of your subscription. So just go to hungryroot.com slash more news to get 40% off your first delivery and get those free veggies. You deserve it. That's hungryroot.com slash more news. Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent ya. And we are back as promised, like I said a little bit ago. After the first assassination attempt, there was a lot of rhetoric about Democrats and

how they talk about Donald Trump and how it incites violence and clutching of pearls and whatnot despite all the things I could list about what Donald Trump says all the time. And the reality of this- We just talked about it for 20 minutes. Yes, exactly, Jamie. And now we have a situation where a former president of the United States, a candidate to be the president of the United States

says this bold-faced lie on a national stage where everybody's watching, and immediately we have violence. States says this bold-faced lie on a national stage where everybody's watching, and immediately we have violence. And I say that to tie into the fact that, yeah, someone attempted, I guess, to shoot him. There's all this fury of, how could the Secret Service let this happen again? Again, they stopped him.

Well, they didn't. They didn't. Well, I heard something about, oh, the guy, what's his name? Ralph? Ralph. Ralph? Ralph. Wow, it's crazy that his name's actually Ralph.

Renegade Ralph. He was there for like many, many, many hours before, you know, they caught him. They caught him. But I, and I don't really know that I want to get into this story because there's other stuff that's more important to discuss. But I did want to highlight that because I've been personally hung up on it. Like this is. Oh, yeah, it's absurd. They're still trying to do that.

JD speaks about all the time. Vivek is always like, this is not who we are. Bro. Yeah, it is. What are you talking about? Fuck off. Obviously who we are. But yeah, it's absurd. There's so many times where Trump

calls the Democrats fascist enemies of America. America's going to be doomed. Elon does it all the time. He literally tweeted that funny, interesting. Nobody tries to assassinate Kamala Harris. Great tweet, man.

And yeah, they do all the time. It's the destruction of America. That's how we talk. Maybe it's maybe we can just say, you know what? You're right. We made up this lie about how Donald Trump is a threat to democracy so that we can focus on the real issues. Right. We're lying about that so that we can talk about how he wants to cut Social Security or whatever. Yeah, it's absurd.

It shouldn't even be considered. It shouldn't be responded to. The idea that the Dems are like the party of bad, violent rhetoric and we're innocent little babies is absurd. Doesn't doesn't require an acknowledgement. I mean it does, but like, I don't know, it sucks. So frustrating. Two assassination attempts in a year

and nothing to do with Jodie Foster. Just not as compelling. Come on, it's not as compelling. You gotta get the celeb. She did win an Emmy the same day. She did what? She won an Emmy that night. But there's no-

Oh, someone's running with that conspiracy theory. Someone out there. Oh, absolutely. Us. Absolutely. Yeah, we are. Right here. Let's be the sludge brains that run with it.

You heard it. I do want to move on to other topics. We have not talked much about Israel lately, so we're gonna do that now. Jonathan, what could have possibly happened this past week? about Israel lately. So we're going to do that now. Jonathan, what could have possibly happened this past week? Well, there are a bunch of wireless electronic devices

that exploded in Lebanon and Syria this week in an attack largely believed to have been orchestrated by Israel. And apparently, it think it's confirmed. Apparently targeting the political party and paramilitary group Hezbollah, of which there are 100,000 members. By apparently- We'll get them all.

Don't worry. We'll get them all. By apparently getting into the supply chain and booby trapping a bunch of wireless devices like pagers and like solar panels, solar energy systems and walkie talkies with explosives and then assuming that only bad guys had those and then wirelessly detonating all those with, sci-fi movie stuff that they did. Anyway, killing- I'm assuming, I don't think that they super cared who had them. Interesting theory to posit that maybe they don't care about civilian casualties.

They killed more than 20 people, including several children, and injured more than 3,000 people in these two days of attacks. I was listening to something this morning. No, don't do that. But initially, we're trying to trace, where were these manufactured? And I guess Israel itself somehow intercepted and did the things.

But they placed the bombs. They dispersed them a couple of years ago. They've been carrying these around for a while and they've just been waiting for the right time. That's spooky. I don't like that, I don't like that. But the point being like, okay, you know, Hezbollah has been using these instead of other devices,

just the pagers, not all the other equipment that was, you you know booby trapped but it's been years you know that these pages are not just staying the whole thing is disgusting you know that this has made its way into civilian and like oh they're going to explode like there's there's no justification there's no in my mind saying like, well, who's supposed to be going to Hezbollah? No. If it's been there for years,

you have no idea who it has been, that's ridiculous. And that's the point. It's tormenting terror. Who's going to be around those people? Right, right. Like how do you know that there aren't gonna be, for example, children around? They knew.

That's part of the goal is terror. Speaking of booby traps, John, do you want to read, just sort of tell us how legal are booby traps on international law basis? Like in terms of international law? Not. Oh, interesting, interesting. Zero percent. It is a war crime. They love those.

To booby trap objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use according to Human Rights Watch. No, you can't do that. There's like wiggle room since they're pagers and nobody uses pagers anymore? It's very hard. Well actually, it's not like civilians don't use pagers these days. If you had to ask someone to define terrorism, how would you define terrorism and not include what happened this week? I don't know how you would do that.

I don't know how I could do that and say, well, if you're only targeting members of a political party slash paramilitary group slash terrorist organization, right? I'm assuming the US considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization, Israel does. But how do you know these aren't going to be in cars, in the pockets of children, in a boat, on a plane? What? How does anybody not think that now? Like if you're,

like if you live there, what are you like, what you're saying? Like you're gonna be living in a heightened sense of terror because you don't know when beepers are going to explode. I would wanna touch an electronic. No. I wouldn't want to touch an electronic. No, I wouldn't want to touch my computer. I wouldn't want to touch anything. I'm not sure how this specifically works,

but the fact is that you wouldn't have expected this in the first place, so it's going to make you uncertain and uneasy maybe for the rest of your life. And that is the point. Right, especially the fact that it's targeting communication tools too, that will, you know, That is the point. Right, especially the fact that it's targeting communication tools, too, that will, you know, like if people are terrified to touch their or interact with the ways that they would

communicate with each other or learn, like, get their news or whatever it is. Like, it just, I don't know. Yeah, like you're saying, Jonathan, there's no way you can't consider it terrorism. And just knowing, unfortunately, as we do how many ways that Israel has killed civilians, there's no argument that like, well, this was the only way we could have done it. It was like, you know, intentionally chosen to be terrifying.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, they're most're most precise military in the world actually. And yet civilians keep dying. Yeah. If you're, I guess, if you're like, if you're a sovereign nation, it's not terrorism, right? You can just do whatever. Specifically, this nation seems like in terms of our general opinion. You know, this is of course, we're always afraid of the quote-unquote broader regional war because Israel and Lebanon are not, they have not declared war on each other, right?

This is just like setting off bombs in another country. Skirmishes. Because you want to get certain people in that country, but you don't really care if other people in that country who have nothing to do with you or your grievances and their children. Yeah. Or if it becomes a bigger war, you also don't care. I also want to point out that there's been a little bit of confusion about what American officials knew and when apparently American officials were not aware of this attack before it was going to happen, but that Israeli defense Yoav Galant called US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin

a few minutes before the pagers started exploding on Tuesday and said, Israel's going to conduct an operation in Lebanon soon, but wouldn't give any details. And smart move on Israel's part because they know we're not gonna do anything. We know there's not gonna be a policy change. I mean, they killed an American citizen recently who was protesting in the West Bank. And we were fine with it. I believe Antony Blinken said it was not acceptable. But based on the actions-

Oh, strong words. It's acceptable because- Apparently, nothing's happening. How do we make this stop? But oh good based on the action words. It's acceptable because Apparently, yeah, nothing's happening. How do we make this stop? Is it maybe just that's unacceptable just sort of means like well, we're not gonna acknowledge that happened We don't accept that that happened. We're just gonna Able that is unknowledgeable,. But it brings up a really tough question. And look, I don't think Israel is close to getting in the supply chain of iPhones that will come to America that could specifically target student demonstrators.

But we know based on Israel's social media presence that they believe that student demonstrators in the US protesting against their actions are themselves terrorists and that they believe that this kind of action is okay to do if you're going after terrorists and we know that the United States is okay with them killing American citizens if they say it was an accident. Well, it was very uncomfortable. Yeah, that's the thing. It was like, okay, well, that's, you know, they're not going to send like explosive pagers to Columbia University or whatever. But like the rhetoric is clear. The actions are clear. And it's like that's bad in and of itself, even if nothing will. They're not going to do anything about it. But but like that's weird that we just sort of like keep going with that being those things being true. Like you can call these student protesters terrorists and then justify all this

stuff and then not care about this American being being killed and all this sort of stuff. And those are just facts. That's the reality that we live in. And then we have to be like, okay, well, that's normal. And we're going to continue the course, I guess. Yeah. And I mean, regardless of whether there's credence to that at all, it does serve to make protesting scarier. And I feel like emboldens campuses. I know that my alma mater has made it basically

against the rules to protest for all of these sneaky language reasons. And if there is like, well, you could be posing a threat to everyone if you are protesting Israel. Like it just, the trickle down there is terrifying. And this is like after what we saw in the spring. And that is the intention, right? The intention is not, ah, we're going to actually blow up you student protesters, but they want to make it very uncomfortable to keep doing what happened in April.

Right. They are terrorizing people who want to protest about it. And it gives people who want to make those protests impossible, who just work for institutions here, it gives them a reason to say, well, it's, you know, you're posing a danger if you do this. -♪ Hello, Katie here. A house is a lot like a boat, you know? They both have walls, and there's, um...

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Do we want to watch Donald Trump be funny? Let's do it. I think it sounds nice. Um, it's the, this guy's spreading evil Nazi lies. Sometimes he says something really funny about his wife that hates him. When does Melania's book come out? I didn't know there was a Melania book. He doesn't either.

I didn't either. Oh. Well, it's like, it's, was a Melania book. He doesn't either. I didn't either. Oh. Well, it's like, it's a art book. It's like she wrote it, but it's also an art book about her modeling career, I believe. Oh, I saw that the video she released. Oh, this is that I'm not going to apologize for nude modeling or something. Yes. This is that.

Really good font choice there. Okay. Here we go. So I said to our great first lady, who can draw a crowd? Did you watch me tonight on television, first lady? People love our first lady out there. Okay. Here we go. So I said to our great first lady, who can draw a crowd? Did you watch me tonight on television? First lady. People love our first lady. Farmer first lady. Go out and get a book. She just wrote a book. I hope she said good things about, I don't know. I didn't. So busy. She just, I don't Melania. Go out and buy it, it's great. So busy.

Yeah. And if she says bad things about me, I'll call you all up and I'll say, don't buy it, get rid of it. Oh my goodness. Jesus Christ. World's best husband. Melania wrote a book.

She has great things, I don't know, I didn't read. I'm busy. It sounds like my uncle when my book came out. If my wife wrote a book, it wouldn't enter my mind that she might say a bunch of mean shit about me. The fact that he first off, there's that.

Ah, read, get the book, but if she says awful things about me, don't get it. She's a fucking liar. It's like 75-25 but if she says awful things about me, don't get it. She's a bad liar. She's a bad shreiner. It's like 75, 25, I don't know whether she says something bad about me. I don't know what she said, we haven't talked in years. It's also funny, because like, okay, yeah, obviously you didn't read her book. Who knows if she wrote the book?

He didn't read it, he's very busy. Do you think he read Loomerd? Do you think he's read this book? No. Maybe audiobook at like 1.75. She's a free spirit. I don't think he's read his book? No. Maybe audiobook at like 1.75. She's a free spirit. She's a free spirit. I don't think he reads much, to be honest.

Because what was there when he was, his briefings had to have lots of pictures and charts. So interns are out there like drawing it for him. Maybe in the 70s he read a book or two. I doubt since then. Not since Home Alone 2, certainly. I don't think he's even read his book. So busy. I was's even read his book. So busy. I was trying to check his book.

He wrote a book in 2000 and he was talking about how the year before 9-11 he was like, look out for this Osama Bin Laden. No one knew who he, no one had ever heard of him. I said, you gotta get Osama. And I was like, I gotta get that book and see if he actually wrote that or if whoever wrote the book wrote that No one had ever heard of it. He did blow. I don't have the book So busy

We did hear about it because years before he blew up part of the World Trade Center in 93 It doesn't matter but like right never hear about this guy anymore. You never hear about him Katie I do think that's a good point though that like he probably has not read his own books either No, yeah, so there's not a single Trump book that he's actually received anything but Cliff's notes on yeah Absolutely not he's been briefed of it. He's had other people read and be like do I look good? Fine, that's all he's done. You know what else is done? The show almost. The show almost.

What? Jamie, we love having you here. I know you're busy. Thanks for having me here. We appreciate you taking the time. Really busy. Busy, busy. Really busy. You can't finish any of the books

because you're so busy. Can you tell us just all the things? Tell us what's up. How's it going? Yeah. Can you just tell us? Yeah, you could listen to 16th Minute, every podcast place, except YouTube, because I have not yet

been forced to pivot to video, but it's coming for me. And it's come for me before, it's literally like HPV for me, just every so often. It's back. Very relatable. Goes into remission. Anyways, you can listen to 16th Minute,

you listen to my movie show with Caitlin Durante, the Bechtel cast, or you can read my book about hot dogs, which is called Raw Dog, that my uncle pretended to read, and then later criticized me when he learned I said something not nice about my grandma in it. So, it does happen. That's really funny. Many such stories.

So busy. I didn't even give a thumbs up. I don't know why this happens. Strictly on vibes. Strictly on vibes. Well, yeah, everybody check out all that stuff. Jamie, you are wonderful, thank you. Jonathan, you're great. You're great too. You too. Yes, you you. Jonathan. I'm sorry.

You're great, Cody, you too. Yes, you too, Katie. Thank you so much. You guys are the best. You know what, listeners, viewers at home? You too, because we love you very much. Very much. And I mean it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's good? I'm Brian Greenberg. I'm Victor Rasuk. Check out our new podcast, We Almost Made It. You guys might remember us from HBO's How to Make It in America. And guess what? We're going to have actors, athletes, fashion designers, comedians, friends. We're going to talk hustle, grind, anyone who had a dream

and people thought they were crazy, but they chased it anyway. We want to talk about it. We also want to hear from you. So go follow, rate, and review We Almost Made and people thought they were crazy, but they chased it anyway. We wanna talk about it. We also wanna hear from you. So go follow, rate, and review.

We almost made it at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Go ahead and do it. Do it. Do it now.