Some More News - Even More News: Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, Still The Guiltiest Man Alive

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Hi. Ella Yurman joins Katy, Cody, and Jonathan to read through some of Jeffrey Epstein's old emails. They talk about the horrible grammar, whether or not Trump tipped off Palm Beach police to Epstein's actions, and all the many ways Trump is trying to make this go away.As always, we recorded right before that big thing that happened.PATREON: https://patreon.com/somemorenewsMERCH: https://shop.somemorenews.comYOUTUBE MEMBERSHIP: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvlj0IzjSnNoduQF0l3VGng/join#DonaldTrump #Epstein #evenmorenewsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello on today's show. We talk about boring policy stuff. Womp. Ha ha, just kidding. There are literally thousands of Epstein emails. Stay tuned. My name is Katie Stoll. Hello, Katie Stoll. No comment. I'm Cody Johnston. No comment. Cody Johnson is here and very excited. It's been a minute since we've had this guest to join us, writer, comedian, some more news contributor, and host of Going Down with Ella Yerman.

It's Ella Yerman. Hi. I'm so thrilled to be here. We've missed you. we're happy to see you yeah of course Jonathan is also here hi yeah yeah yeah it's a fun week to be here Ella the news is just so endless all the time is is sort of my feeling these days it's super fun I sometimes um since we do the Monday show which to you at home the Tuesday show Tuesday uh sometimes on Tuesday I'm like are we going to have new things to talk about and

without fail Tuesday night to Wednesday it's like a crushing barrage of news but before we get to the news

we do have holidays folks and they are holidays Friday November 14th is National Family PJ Day

that's weird I'm a little allergic to family PJ no I'm not if I had a kid maybe I'd want to all dress up matching but like

yeah it's okay families do it's cute you're right it's cute how else are you going to escape the Nazis that's that's what the sound of me we you know what that is such a good point i hadn't thought about it like that i'm in i'm in there is that um that viral video from like 12 13 years ago the christmas jammies family dancing in the front yard night and day and the neighbors walk by and this is what they say are this Christmas jammies they are Christmas jammies they had like a moment and they sang this song about Christmas Jammies and went on like Good Morning America about it

and after a week you're like they're nice people I don't want to see the Christmas Jammies family ever again and they kind of ruined the concept that vibe is kind of what I'm talking about yeah but you know what for your it's cute to my friends at home with your Christmas they tried to do some more

like sequels to the song only do more they still do they do song parodies and song like the Christmas jammies all the time I we're not gonna be a point they're called the Holderness family the Holderness family that's right how do you remember this so specifically because they made a bunch of songs that bothered me so I that's beautiful because if something like that were to happen nowadays they'd have maybe 45 minutes

of fame and then be swept under the rug by the next horrible TikTok family yeah no they're sticking with it also they they got in under the where they don't need to have any sort of political affiliation or cultural signifiers? Sure. They're just like, no, we're just a family. We just do songs about how we love our dog. That's it.

They don't need to dump beef tallow on their heads at the end of the... None of that. None of that. It's just straightforward... They don't have to participate. Weird Al type parodies of songs. We used to be a real country. Proper country.

Yeah. Yeah, the good old days. Embarrassing. Shameful. I want to harken back to Monday. I feel like I call. I called it. I called it. I don't know if it made it into the show. I didn't really call it. It should be obvious. The one thing about the government shutdown ending, I was like, well, maybe we'll get Epstein back in the conversation again, finally. It's been months. And then the next day it happened. It really did. It happened. Jonathan, what happened? The House Democrats had the same idea. You did, Katie. It was timed up very well with the shutdown ending.

in Adelito Grijalva being sworn in as the 218th signature on the discharge petition, the House Democrats released three email conversations between Jeffrey Epstein and Galane Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein and Michael Wolfe, the journalist slash PR guy for Jeffrey Epstein, as we find out. Pedophile PR, yeah. These, like, they released these three specific ones. And then in retaliation slash response, the House Republicans released 23,000. emails, which gave everyone a lot to comb through, much of which is innocuous and much of which doesn't look good for lots of people, not just President Trump. Lots of people come away,

not looking great in these emails. So let's read a few of them. Let's do that. So in 2011, which was before Trump is in politics, really, and after Epstein has already served his term as part of the, or his sentence as part of the sweetheart deal. He emails Galane Maxwell. I want you to realize that that dog that hasn't barked is Trump, Virginia, Virginia, Geoffrey,

spent hours at my house with him. He has never once been mentioned, police chief, etc. I'm 75% there. And then Galane Maxwell replies, I have been thinking about that. Which at first blush, you know, there's several ways to interpret this. I happen to

believe that Epstein is surmising that maybe Trump is the guy who turned him in and tipped off the Palm Beach police since he, as the dog that hasn't barked, has not been brought up in any of these investigations whatsoever, but you could have another interpretation that he's, you know, spending hours with a girl in his home. Oh, I mean, he seems like he's at least eludic, like insinuating like, okay, Virginia spent hours at my house with him and they talked and then Trump turned him in or like tipped them off right? That's the implication of the of the email it seems I believe I believe

that Trump knew about it I'll say that and that he spent hours at his house with the Virginia who says that he never did anything to her right she always said that like I didn't see Trump do anything and perfect gentleman she also said that she had

she had never seen Trump and Epstein together in the house. I mean, obviously, her, her testimony is our, there's obviously been some covering up. We already know that because we have seen Trump and Epstein pictures of them together, you know. Oh, well, she, I think she was referring to. Oh, you meant at his house. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. If you get really specific with it, you don't have to incriminate yourself. Yeah. They've never, I never saw them together on, on the front lawn. Then the other emails that the Democrats released were both with Michael Wolfe, who wrote a tell-all book about Trump and was a journalist. In December 2015, which was the morning of a Republican primary debate that Trump was going

to be in, Michael Wolf said, hey, Jeffrey, you might come up. I have word that they're going to ask Trump about you tonight. And Jeffrey Epstein's like, what response would be crafted for Donald Trump if you were crafting a response. And he writes, I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the house, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you, or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime.

Which certainly seems to indicate that he was on the plane and at the house. how Epstein must have felt when he realized that this guy he had all this blackmail on was going to be the president of the United States. That must have been a very exciting moment for him, you know, like, or terrifying. He's been, or terrifying, but he has all of this, he clearly has all of this leverage on, on Trump. And for suddenly this, like, shitty business guy that you've been friends with and letting into your home with underage women, suddenly is, it's going to be the president. Like, that must, I don't know. I know. I know we were all shocked. when Trump won, but it must have been

a special moment. Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's kind of like the dream for a guy like him, right? It's like, oh, all the things I've been doing to like compromise people and get dirt on people, uh, I now have the president. Potentially, potentially. But it's like a double-edged

sword because they had been enemies for like the previous decade. They were friends throughout the 90s and the early aughts. Then this real estate deal, Trump wins and Epstein and Bill Pulte's dad lose. And all of a sudden they don't like each other anymore. Oh, yeah, it's been soured for a long time. He certainly doesn't seem excited about the prospect of Donald Trump winning throughout these.

It certainly seems like he's saying this guy is a bad person. Maybe not, but that's what it feels like to me. Well, also, if your old best friend who you think is an idiot suddenly became like an Oscar winning actor, you'd be like, what the hell? That'd be so bad. That person. Right. That's true. Probably jealous and angry.

Yeah, it's like this guy. Yeah, if a pedophile is going to be the president, it should be me. Oh, I guess. Right. Also, I mean, obviously, we alluded to this, but just sort of Michael Wolfe being like, here's what you got to do.

My buddy is really, really weird. That one's a little confusing to me because it's like, what do you mean? What should he say if asked about you? You guys aren't. Yeah, just him giving him advice is just odd, given the context and the knowledge and the admission.

that Epstein has made to Wolf himself and clearly they know like they know what they're alluding to right because in the email he's like well if he says he hasn't been on the plane or the house and then you have this opportunity and so on so like they know and it's just I find it

pretty distasteful I guess is the polite way to say it that he's giving Epstein this like at PR advice in this email it's very shocking I know that he served his sentence and that what even was that sentence he got to work from his prison

and then all of that, whatever. But all these emails, people are so buddy, buddy with him well after his reputation has been completely destroyed. We haven't talked about these Kathy Rumler emails yet, which we'll get to. But honestly, it's not flirtatious, but almost. And it's like it just blows my mind that people have this kind of rapport with this monster. You know, it's just shocking to me Were still fine With being friends with him

Like he got this deal He was still kind of in the world Peter Thiel admitted it on Rogan A couple months ago When he's like Well yeah like he's just this great tax guy And like he was gonna help with all this financial stuff And then Rogan tried to give him an out

By saying like yeah but you didn't know about anything And Peter Thiel was honest and said No this was after This was after we knew he was a sex pest. When you were introduced to him, how was he described to you? He was described as one of the smartest tax people in the world. Interesting. And I probably, probably was my moral weakness that I.

Well, how could you have known back then? He had never been arrested. No, this was 2014. It was post-arrest. Oh, so his arrest was the first arrest, right? Yeah, which was like 2008. Oh, 708. Okay. Okay.

You know, they're just like, like, he, He's emailing with Kathy Rumler, who was a former White House, a counsel for Obama and is a current Goldman Sachs executive or Goldman Sachs counsel. They're just writing back and forth and she's writing to Epstein. Like, Trump is so gross and he's writing back worse in real life and up close. Like you're emailing with Jeffrey Epstein saying, hey, this other guy is extremely gross. The grossest man in the world. Not that he's not. like the grossest guy

but like thanks for your assessment of this guy's like moral like vigor Jeffrey Epstein like I don't care I mean this is not an original observation but it's it's it's remarkable how

like QAnon for years has been beating the drum of like if you if you put all the letters backwards and upside down and you read it through a red filter you can see coded language that's that proves they're raping children but no it's

They're just saying it in, like, emails. They email each other about it. Yeah, like, without, with no coded language. They're like, yeah, Donald Trump, he's gross. We don't like him because of the girls. Yeah, the illusions, he frequently in these emails makes casual allusions to the stuff he used to do. That he used to do.

With people who seemingly were not involved in that. In one of these emails with Kathy Rumler from 2014, she uses the word girls in this totally innocuous way or like I didn't have what did I do to deserve to be one of these girls or something like that and Epstein responds girls careful I will renew an old habit

what dude it's so it makes my stomach drop yeah he's disgusting someone's just got to be like ah ha ha ha ha totally totally thank you slug man because of when you

when you raped children it's wild yeah remember that thing that I did like bananas a feeling of you're insulated from everything you're super powerful i can joke about this and who knows kathy rumler maybe tells her friends like i'm friends with geoffrey upstein yeah but like look at what he's saying to me yeah maybe there's some yeah maybe maybe there we don't know i don't know there seems to be a lot of back and forth but um i mean she's coming on on monday so we can ask her oh perfect perfect it is tell i'm a fan it's golden macks week next week on the show.

Oh, fun. Fun for everybody. It really gives me the creeps to think about the psyche of this man. I don't even need to go to speculate about Kathy or whatever. To be so calculated for so long in your abuse, in your crimes, and to be so jokey and cavalier about it to essentially admit that you haven't grown, you know, or maybe there's no remorse there at all. It's sickening. It's rich monster stuff. They're all, you know, they're not, they're not all like pedophile sex traffickers, but they're all like that.

You know, they get away with the thing. They're not going to, uh, they feel like they're insulated and they have, well, if it's, if this person is, uh, rich has influence, uh, can get me something that I need, then I'm going to not care about these things. Um, even like, I mean, obviously this is not the exact same thing, but that Joe Rogan clip, the, the teal thing, It's like, if it was reported that Peter Thiel had contacts with Jeff Epstein after all the stuff had already been revealed, Rogan would call that fake news. But when Peter Thiel tells him to his face, he's like, wow, cool, I guess. Am I supposed to think that you're brave? I guess I think you're brave for doing that.

Well, because he's like, well, yeah, like he, you know, he promised to make me the billionaire slightly more rich. and that's justification. That's all it takes. That's all it takes. I do want to call out something that, you know, these, I won't say these emails make Trump look good by any stretch. He clearly knew for a long time what his buddy Jeffrey Epstein was up to. He may be tipped off the Palm Beach police at some point. He maybe asked Geelaine to stop poaching his spa attendance for this little disgusting

project that Epstein had. But. And, like, got his, like, post-girlfriends, they talk about how, like, oh, yeah, he, like, date these underage girls, totally. Rape these young girls. And then, like, when they, like, turn, like, 21, he'd be like, okay, now Trump gets them, I guess. Totally. Like, it's gross, disgusting stuff that clearly tells us more about Trump that we already know. But it seems like it's a much bigger story than it would be than if they just

released everything and so it begs or raises the question why is Trump still fighting so hard to stop the release of other stuff what else? Right like what can there be

right even these emails the emails are like like you're saying like yeah they give a window into this world and these relationships and stuff but like the birthday card is worse to me in my mind like

yeah that birthday card is the most damning piece of evidence I've seen, uh, even though it's not him. He didn't make it. It's fake or whatever. But like that birthday card is that's I that I that case closed. We're done. We're we're done here. We've done it. Um, but yeah, these emails are interesting and, but like, I mean, there are Republicans who would like the release of, of all these, these more files. Uh, they, we finally swore in, uh, the final member of Congress. But during all of this, Trump was panicking and calling Nancy Mace and trying to get a hold of Lauren Bobert or the reverse. You're trying to get a hold of Nancy Mace, talk to Lauren Bobert, begging her to take your name off

the petition, don't do this. He's trying to get all these people to not release these. Why? If this is it, why do you care? This is showing documentation of just how much he did know and that he spent time with Virginia. that, you know, just debunking some of the claims that they have made, you know, over the past, over many years. But it should be landing with people that, like, I believe that there is far worse, but this is bad enough because Trump knew. Trump knew and for a long time and the only reason he potentially, maybe he did, maybe he did turn in Epstein seems likely over this real estate deal, whatever.

they had their rich boy falling out but he knew and he helped keep it a secret so he's at the very least an accomplice to this you know but he probably got some sort of fucking great deal for himself and that is what he is afraid of being revealed and an innocent man doesn't panic and have a fucking meeting in the situation room to try and mitigate the obvious thing that was going to happen once the shutdown was always We all knew this is the next step. If he found out about this and then told the authorities, that's an easy to tell story. Easy. Very easy. He's a hero. I found out about it, and I was disgusted, and so I told the authorities, and I helped them in any way I could. When the actual story is probably closer to, well, the walls were closing in, and I got, like, some people, made some comments at the club or whatever, and I agreed to tell them everything I knew, which was

a lot because I was involved and I was there. You don't tip them off in this way unless you have information because you were present or involved in some way. Or he would just say, yeah, I found out about it and let him know, and I'm the hero in this story. I'm the Qaeda that everyone's been telling you about. Run the person. Why is he not saying that? If if that's anywhere close to what it was. He didn't even say that about the Mar-a-Lago thing. He didn't even say, like, oh, I found out he's doing this, and so I kicked him out. It's like, no, he was, like, stealing my employees is how he said it.

So, like, why are you talking about it like this? Is it just that his brain is broken, or is it maybe something to do with that fucking card about how Enigma's never age? I don't know. Do you think it'll matter in the end when the, like, I know we, like, he's obviously acting different about this information than other stuff, but I, I do worry we're doing another version of that tweet from 2017 or whatever. Like, I can't wait to see Donnie wriggle out of this one.

Like, I don't know. I grapple with this when I write for some more news and I grapple with it on my show as well of like so much of what we do is exposing hypocrisy. And obviously, like, Trump ran on, like, exposing the deep state and getting rid of the pedophiles. And now it's like about to come out that he is one of the big main pedophile. Like, will anyone care? Does it matter anymore? I think

I think this one might I think with this issue enough people will care like you know like even like the Boberts and the like Marjor Taylor Green like doing the wind check

right like she knows where things are headed it seems and I think that if it is more egregious than it already is and there is stuff that he's like I don't want people to see this

I feel like enough people would care about it but also maybe not it might not but I think that there's enough people that do that won't let

it slide that that it's like that then the other people will finally be like oh you're this is unacceptable we can blah blah but but they've known this whole time we've all known this information

isn't surprising it's not surprising to any of us we knew it then we knew it In 2020, we knew it in this last election. It's not a shock. So people might finally pull their heads out of their butts. Like, you know. It's this or the economy?

Let's say the House, like, votes and which I don't quite understand why the Democrats can release some emails willy-nilly and these other files we have to do an insane vote referendum on. But let's say the vote passes and like the next week and then it goes to the Senate and it passes. like what happens do we like trump fetus it they impeached well right like that's what i'm curious about because if if he thinks there's something in there that absolutely cannot come out he will have to veto it and maybe all of this posturing and trying to stop the discharge petition is because he knows it'll look really bad if he vetoes just releasing the epstein files which he campaigned on a little bit and then and then his whole uh team talked about

doing. But if he thinks that there's something in there that's just so bad it cannot come out, he will veto it, and then that's the end unless somehow it creates such a groundswell that we get two thirds of both

branches of... Like that doesn't seem right now politically that it would happen. So if he doesn't want it to come out, it won't come out. But a veto would look pretty bad. It would look pretty bad. It might galvanize people more. It might make

even more people go like, wait. It'll really hurt his re-election chances. It'll hurt his reelection chances. More than the collapsing economy will. And the constitutional sections that say he's not allowed to run. We don't read that part. Captain history over here. What a drag.

I just, I'm envisioning a world like, let's say he, I don't know. We do get two thirds and all of the files come out. There's something in there that's so damning he can't wriggle his way out. What do the rest of the Republicans, like, what happens, you know? Like, do they learn anything from this? Does, is there any? The whole party is based around this one guy right now. I'm just struggling to envision a world where now that the Republicans are turning on

each other. I just don't know what the outcome, what the, like, what does Bobert want to happen? I think they're all assessing things. They don't know. part of it is they're assessing things i a few of them i do think there's a sense of like they kind of do know like i think that some of them get a sense or have seen something that's like probably he's probably did it he's probably like implicated in this and they don't that does not sit well with them um that's my hope at least i don't know maybe they're all it's all just

calculation and they're like oh wow people are turning against trump but like this is a this is potentially an issue that can disgust people if you see the right thing if you see something that's like oh yeah he did it that's disgusting I can't do this anymore and they're trying

maybe trying to figure out a way to push people in the direction they're trying to figure out if they need to fall on that bomb or not or if they should they're trying to figure out if the president's going to be successful right they want to survive they should live because it's not

even about Donald. Right now it's about Donald Trump, but who's next? What's the thing about Maga and the conservative party right now. Right. Right. This is comprised of a wildly different and so is the left. The Democrats, I feel very little in common with many Democrats politically. Well, that's our side, whatever. But Maga, what is it? There's some very disparate groups here that want different things and different. And it's coming to a head now because he cannot please them. and this is going to be a big rift. I think this will enable a lot of people to split away if it's allowed to progress far enough.

But I think there's just all of these conservative Congress people are waiting to see whether or not they need to make a grandstand, make a big, you know, or if they fail, then they're in his crosshairs. Yeah, because the thing that Trump, the only thing Trump was able to do is unite everybody because he makes libs mad right like his his his like function is make the libs mad and crush the left that's his job and he that's why he was able to gather like oh stephen miller and r fk junior why not all these different people who have these different little issues and they've all like gathered around him and then as he slowly dies in front of us uh that is is falling apart and we're seeing that

And it's, it's interesting. I, because I do think of sometimes, sometimes I think about the Republican Party as much better at long-term planning than the left. They've spent like decades stacking the lower courts and running all these primaries. And yet they've also sort of hinged their entire movement on this one 80-year-old guy who is like going to, if even if the Epstein stuff doesn't get him, he's going to die soon. Like, what happens to their movement? We've been talking about this a lot lately, actually. We'll do it. We're going to do a whole episode probably about this.

because there's so many different ways it could go because it is that you spent 10 years about this guy and he's incredibly off-putting and people don't really like him even though he won twice and then I mean without his

uncanny ability to not face consequences and to brush off every single scandal and every like offhand comment everyone around him sucks and is weird right it can't be Vance they can't do that like Vance can't thrive I don't think Vance can thrive without Donald Trump

counter like counter balancing that but if he's propped up by the people by the rich people that got vance there in the first place you know like he's being propped up by tech oligarchs that wanted him there so you know that that gives me pause because they also own our social media platforms oh yeah they're not going to abandon him quickly yeah i'm not going to die in the hill that this is definitely bringing him down but you see the cracks and maybe we'll have time to get to some of it we referenced it earlier this week he is Throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks to try to please people and nothing is working. Everyone's, it's a joke.

Like the question of like with the Epstein stuff, what will they do? And I do hope that enough people will be like, oh, you're a disgusting monster. We cannot have you involved in anything anymore. But a lot of people will just figure out a way to talk about it in a way that you can brush it off. There's a Megan Kelly, for example, has. been on a bit of a tear lately in a lot of different ways. One of her guests was Abatya Ungar Sargon, and she was talking about this, kind of like we were saying earlier, we're like, oh, well, you know, yeah, Jeffrey would prey upon these women

when they were underage, and then they would age out of Jeff Epstein's pedophilic interest, at which point he would then start to pass them around to his friends. and sort of like removing Trump from from that whole like world and being like he would just like be a pedophile and like rape these young girls and then he would give them to his friends and like that's fine apparently like that's normal that's allowed that's allowed I do think you're throwing around that word pedophile a bit flippantly because as Megan Kelly points out in this clip here we go there's a specific definition for what kind of sex the joke came true True. We knew they were going to do this and they're doing it. Yeah. So the libertarians are back on board, baby. And this person has told me from the start years and years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile. This is this person's view who was there for a lot of this, but that he was into the barely legal type. Like he liked 15-year-old girls. And I realize this is disgusting. I'm definitely not trying to make an excuse for this.

I'm just giving you facts. that he wasn't into like eight-year-olds but he liked the very young teen types the barely legal types 10, 11 doesn't mean 15 madam you're barely through no she means not legal the word she's looking for is not

ill it could be maybe she's trying to say one word and she left off the prefix but my goodness and also if that's that's the best you got to defend to this stuff, good luck to you. He doesn't like children. He likes teenagers. It's totally different. Well, actually. I mean, like, so through all of these emails, we don't have some specific, that we have

seen specific incriminating, oh, this is the night. He hooked up with the 13-year-old or whatever, but there have been. Rape the 13-year-old. Sorry, I have to. He raped the 13-year-old. Maybe she was 14. That's what I was about to say I was like maybe in these emails we don't

But we do know that he did You know she had a lawsuit She was coming public with it in 2016 And was threatened and went into hiding And it's just None of it should be shocking With all of these victims of Epstein It is notable

That only there's one I mean Donald Trump has been accused Credibly accused of sexual assault by many, many, many, women over 18. Only one... Including his wife.

Yes, including his wife in a published book. And only one... Based off of the legal deposition. Sorry. Only one Epstein victim or alleged Epstein victim says, you know, Donald Trump was part of this sexual assault.

Katie Johnson, not her real name, Jane Doe. That lawsuit is gone. that it'll never come back and that's it. And one would think that there is stuff in the files that have not been released that are not like communications with Epstein that are interrogations or police interviews or something that would involve her. You would think that's the kind of thing that Trump is avoiding. And then there's the Michael Wolf thing of like there's photos of him with teen girls

with his like arm around them, which would probably look pretty bad given the kinds of girls that Epstein had around. Had around, yes. And the pants stained picture or stuff like that they've mentioned. Yeah.

So, but I don't think to your point earlier, Katie, there is no plan on this stuff. Like he, Trump was on truth social yesterday doing the same thing. The Democrats are trying to bring up the Jeffrey Epstein hoaxe again. because they'll do anything to deflect on how badly they've done on the shutdown

and then going into that and then Republicans shouldn't fall into that trap there should be no deflections to Epstein so he's really trying to keep his people in line it's the exact same thing he did before and maybe it'll work now but until people are confident that everything has been released and we know everything

this might fade this you know month again this may will but it's not going to go away and like he is well I have it here he's minus 39 on handling of the Epstein case worse than he is on the economy by a significant margin minus 39 well the economy is doing great so that makes sure job markets in an awesome place yeah that's what they say he's untrustworthy

but I have no reason not to trust him on whether or not the economy is doing well he's a businessman Katie he's like really he's like really smart and he's good at deal 5D chess he wrote a book about it he wrote a book about it he wrote a book about it Sure, he did. What are these people? Are they illiterate? I... It's like deciphering your teenage boys' text messages.

What are these people doing? The punctuation, the spelling, that, that, the, this, the... I read the emails that I send like three, four times. Just the ones I send to you guys. Right. Let me long. It's wild Journalists lawyers

Epstein himself Does not seem to understand How to write a proper sentence or a word Larry Summers It's very maddening Yeah It's not Maybe we're all spending too much time

On our emails And if we didn't we would be billionaires I just can't Maybe maybe that's the trick One People in glass houses Shouldn't throw stones I'm just going to get ahead of this right now

Now, I am a terrible, I have, I'm not good at grammar and punctuation in spelling at all times. I, it keeps me up at night sometimes. I'll be like, why didn't I look at that email? No, I'm exaggerating. A lot of things. You've got to get over that. The barrier to entry to keeping me up the night is very low. But, what?

Did you read the Bill Clinton one? No. No. Like, Bill Clinton was never on my plane. I don't know what they're talking about. He was really adamant about that one. Well, that's the very strange. We may be dealing with an unreliable narrator here as well.

Emailing his friends, like all this stuff. There's another email. He's like, that book is not mine. It was stolen from my home, but it's not mine. It's, yeah, it's a really, there's 20,000 emails. I do wonder how much of them are true. Oh, 100%. I mean, it's the same thing when, like, when this happened,

people of course were like actually uh galane was interviewed recently uh from her like no security prison that she's hanging out in yeah the guy massaging her feet asked her some questions if so and she answered them and like you see see it's like yeah bro she perjured herself right like she's a liar what are you talking about what are you talking about she's a liar she's getting that shit commuted it's like out it's so obvious everything's so obvious all the time um yeah like some of these uh punctuation things really drive me nuts because he does the boomer thing of dot dot dot dots everywhere

there's like every sentence ends with dot dot dots except he goes he ends the sentence and then space comma comma comma another space and then another sentence and it like curse my mother I want to like yeah I love you mom red underline on that

sorry for comparing you to Epstein mom I'm sorry mom that'll never happen again but that's good that's good you'll ever do that again A similar chaotic texting style at times. We just have to be happy that he died before the Bitmoji released. Because could you imagine? Oh, my God.

We'd all be toast. Or just like before, you know, like Epstein just emailing you about like someone you knew in high school, do you remember Andrea Norton? I don't know, maybe. Well, she's a doctor now and she moved down to Dana Point. Oh, Christ. Who cares? I don't know.

I don't know. Epstein bothering you about. Exactly. So thank you Donald Trump for strangling Jeff Epstein with your bare hands. Thank you for saying the thing I was about to say. You were going to thank Trump for killing Epstein with his bare hands? But I was going to make an illusion of some sort. I was trying to figure out how to do it.

Look, we can cut this or not. If there's one thing, you're right, you're right. We don't, we shouldn't, he could be a very unreliable narrator and we don't know what, don't know what other emails have we don't know anything he could be very he must be very well aware that his emails are going to get looked at at this point in his life

because he's already been in trouble potentially so maybe that's his own but look he died while President Trump was President Trump and he has a lot of information on the guy

and I was reading through some of these I was like he's a problem that Donald Trump had to handle potentially. Now we can leave this in or we can cut it. Well, this is all just me spinning my wheels. It's interesting that he was kind of gathering all this stuff that could be damaging to Trump in like financial stuff. He's like, look into the mortgage at Mar-a-Lago.

He paid off the electricians union or something. His got Matt, his driver, Matt was the bag man. stuff like that like look into this deal looking to that deal and a lot of this is back in like 2016 in a time when you know you maybe that might matter um but it makes sense he's like I've got this kind of dirt on Donald Trump I'm not going to give up the dirt that also implicates me potentially right exactly so there's there's this balance of like just in these emails I don't know what we can expect to glean in terms of like a smoking gun like yeah it's not like it's like a like a personal

card that talks about how like in the shape of a woman in the shape of like a very very probably young woman talking about like an enigma's never age like how they share like a some sort of like secret they don't want people to know about

like it's not like that like that would be like a wonderful secret like a wonderful the kind you have every day with somebody and it ever ages and it's with like your pedophile best friend That's what I keep coming back to Whenever my mind is like God we've seen so much stuff already

And that's probably all there is to it What could be worse than the card But then Trump has to start behaving In a certain way that makes me think What the hell? What's worse than the card? What could it be? What is it? Or else you would not act this way There's just no conceiv

I mean we've talked about this like five times Because every time this Epstein stuff comes up He keeps acting this way He'd just start acting like not the guiltiest man in the world. The 50-year mortgage idea didn't take hold the way he wanted. So Jonathan, what did he come up with after that? Well, Bill Pulte, who's his head of the federal housing finance agency, and his job is basically to pull mortgage records of Democrats to try to get them in trouble.

That's what he does. I know. It's so funny. And also his grandfather was a super rich guy, and his dad's a super rich guy. who tried to buy the property that Trump and Epstein were fighting over whatever, connecting dots here. So Bill Pulte tweets out without any other details. We are actively evaluating portable mortgages, which means, you know, people aren't moving. People aren't buying new houses because they don't want to get a 7% mortgage rate when they have a 3% mortgage rate.

I guess now it's like 6.1% or something. And so he's like, well, we're looking into you would be able to keep your current mortgage rate. that's great and all well and good but again that helps the people who already own homes that they bought like a decade ago so the you know 60 and ups does nothing for people that want to enter the real estate market he knows what he's talking to this is so wild

like who this is rude who this does benefit is like everybody who they made fun of for being at the no kings rally right they're like oh these are all like they're all like 65 he's going to have any job that you're like, blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, so he's going to help him with their mortgage or whatever.

Yeah, I, is this going over better than the 50-year mortgage idea that Trump floated? I mean, slightly. I guess slightly, because it would help some people other than like 50-year mortgages, which appear to be just predatory. Oh.

And subprime, I would say. But a little below prime, a little under prime. And I also love that this week, seemingly for the first time, that Trump and the GOP, they're having meetings at the White House about what to do about health care.

A decade after he enters the political arena, he's like, you guys, we need a plan. We told him we had concepts of plans. Yeah, and that was over a year ago. Failing to bully John McCain to repeal Obamacare didn't work for the 80th time. So they're going to get together.

They got a powwow. They're going to solve it. And all of their ideas are just different variations of instead of the subsidies for the ACA, give people less money in more inconvenient ways. So Trump was like, we're just going to give you money. And then so you don't have to give it to the insurance companies.

You can just get your money to get better coverage from question mark, question mark, dot, dot, dot, comma, comma, comma. But then other Republicans are like, well, we could create a health savings account, you know, an HSA where the money goes and is placed and is rolled over a year over year. And then other Republicans say, no, it has to be a flexible saving account, which is the, same thing except less flexible and the money disappears but they call it flexible how can it's they're just like it's so wild they're like going through this long list and you have this like this group of republicans are like um sorry it's not evil enough we gotta we gotta make it so much for people it's so funny Republicans trying to craft policy like they're really going through ideas on the whiteboard is so cute like we know you don't care about well it's so rarely

have to do it their their entire platform is is always just like your policy is bad and now they've been in power for like a long enough time in one go that they're it's like ah right it's like they're we have to have ideas they've they've been all in on culture war stuff and they're like slowly realizing wait the culture doesn't like health care like they don't like we need to we actually do need to address this and I've just seen so many people like on all these different ideas so many like blue check uh Republican conservative influencer types just like go all in on like we actually hate insurance companies we got to get rid of insurance companies sir and it's so weird how they just it is slowly

morphed to this like this like movement we're like we kind of do we hate you do we hate you and like your class of people actually and all the things that you support are actually hurting us no no no no no no no we love you sir we love you sir it feels like at a certain point if they've gone all the way around it wouldn't take that much to get them on board with the just we should run it and have a pool and give this is what I've been saying I haven't been saying this but I've thought about this a lot at the hearing people talk about this a lot of conservative people you know this is top of mind of course it is it's top of mine for all of us it's not just the left that cares very much about our broken health care system but you just didn't hear the politicians talking about it you're talking about

voters complaining about it and with the RFK and the merging I was like I don't know Donald Trump just does whatever if there's a world where this leads them into Medicare for all wouldn't that be just a gas wouldn't that just be right I'd certainly take it

well the problem is A it wouldn't be Medicare for all I'd be Medicare for certain people but also they're not going to do that it's just funny that like that's obviously where things culturally are headed and politically are and what would help and what people want. But, like, they can't say that.

They're swirling around like, wait, insurance companies are actually bad, kind of. Like, what if we didn't have them? But they're never going to arrive at that final point. They're just going to sort of swim around and, like, we're got to, we have an account and you're going to have money and it's going to be good. And, yeah. And I'm not glad, look, I think Democrats caved, et cetera. I'm like, what did we do this 40-day shutdown, et cetera,

despite what Donald Trump wants to say about the timing of this Epstein release and how that is to distract from how badly the Democrats did in the shutdown, we all know the truth is that this hurt them and that people on the right are speaking up saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, throughout the campaign, that's something that I heard from will.

people here in my hometown was like, well, they can't get rid of Obamacare. It's like it's not great, but it's what else do we have? That is that it's universal that people believe this. I would pitch that they just reinstitute the Affordable Credit Act subsidies that they took away and call it Trump care and just rebrand it and have Trump sign the subsidies or whatever. And it's the same exact things and now he's doing it. We still call it the Gulf of Mexico. Go ahead. Yeah, go for it.

Try. Win, win. You know, he gets to feel good about himself and people get to get their health insurance. What if instead of health insurance, you asked chat GPT about it? Oh. Like what, how to like take off your own lesions or something? Instead of going to the doctor, you just asked chat GPT about it. And then it tells you what to drink or eat to solve it.

And then, and then just be like, okay, Chachy Petit, how do I pay for this? You guys know. And then they'll recommend crimes to you, and it'll describe how to do the crimes, and some of it will be accurate, some will be inaccurate, and you'll do the crime poorly, and you'll go to prison, and then they'll give you health care that way? Yes, exactly. You've nailed it. So I wanted to, so they've, you know, Trump is making a lot of grand gestures and throwing ideas out because they're flailing. he doesn't know what to do unpopular Epstein stuff all the things we've talked about

he wants to give us checks I don't know if they're dose checks or tariff checks or what kind of checks they want to give us but they definitely want to give us checks now and he's recently also gotten a lot of flack for his stance on H1B visas specifically students

from China going to universities and he got into it with Laura Ingram and at one point she said okay but like you're saying we need these people and like we're not good enough to to like go to school or whatever how is that maga and i really zeroed in on his response at the end of this and i think it's relevant to what we've been talking about and don't forget maga was my idea maga was nobody else's idea i know what maga wants better than anybody else and maga wants to see our country thrive so i thought found that

to be very very interesting because he knows he knows he knows that that like there are all these other people trying to like go for the throne and like they're the conversation like well what happens when he dies who's gonna like be the leader of the maga movement who's gonna like what does maga mean like there's this like civil war going on with republicans and it's very clear he knows oh i'm dying um i'm unpopular he talks about going to hell a lot exactly he's like i need to get into heaven i know i'm gonna be gone soon uh what's my legacy what's this what's this and when she's like but how is that maga he's like i am maga actually i know i know what it is nobody else knows what it is you can tell that he's aware of the situation and I just thought that was really interesting he's aware that he's less racist than the movement he's created even in that

clip where he's like Maga doesn't want to stop people from coming into the country because it did mess everything up and she's like she's like I would I'm fine with that it's like that is what Maga wants a portion of it It's gotten untenable for him It's him arguing with the movement that he has been

been like getting together and leading for so long and put and they've been pushing him he's been pushing them and now he's at this point it's like wait a second i thought like i was only a little fucked up like are what are we doing i thought we were mostly kidding yeah and there is like a bit of a rift in maga right now because he's talking about like these h1b visas and he doesn't want to deny the hundreds of thousands of chinese students coming in and laura ingram of course is like i would be fine with that and most of magas like i would be fine with that and i would be fine with Isn't that what this is all about? I thought that's what the point was.

Like the Stephen Miller stuff, isn't that what this is all about? And he's trying to do this balancing act, and he's trying to force his will on it, saying, no, no, no, mag is me. Laura Ingram doesn't decide. Nick Fuentes doesn't decide I'm the guy. It's out of his control, or it's getting out of his control. And I've been seeing, and I don't know if I have it, and it's just some random people saying it, like random weirdos. But they're saying, we're going to go far. You think once Trump is gone that you get it back,

but actually, you don't know what you've unleashed. We're going even farther. Trump is the moderate option. You think you, you think you guys are going to get a little higher, a little like you need to do a child's voice when you're saying that. Yeah, yeah. It doesn't really sound like Fuentes. You have not prepared.

You are not prepared for our rage. I think, yeah, they think their ideas are popular and that without Trump, they're going to force it through. Like, I doubt it. Elon Musk has made you think that your ideas are popular. buying the website and boosting you and replying to your little tweets but it's not that popular and i just think it's really interesting to see him be like but i'm maga he doesn't think about anything the moment he's dead it's like i don't care what happens maga can dissolve i don't give a shit

they'll do whatever this is about me and i also think it's about him right now feeling out of control i think it's also about him saying even beyond what happens after he dies but in this moment of everybody being upset, the beast has grown bigger than him and the different ideas, not necessarily competing, but all the yeses he said are coming to collect. And they're not happy with what they're seeing.

Yeah, all the factions have different ideas and opinions. He's so miserable. Like, he'd be so much happier, not as the president. And I know we've said that probably on the show, before but like he doesn't like yeah he does it's spinning out there's like political factions there's he doesn't

want to he's like no I'm the I'm the charge and I don't know everyone's mad at me and it's like he should have been he should have made a different TV show I guess I know he's yeah he definitely should have made a different TV show I thought I was the star of the show

yeah I thought we were doing my show but no it's actually so wait it's actually when you're the president of the United States you got to make decisions you can kick off rosan and create a show called the conners that runs for seven seasons or whatever without me you can't do that but of course trump there's like jd vans is not john goodman right they don't have a john goodman that everyone likes and will continue to watch exactly exactly there's nobody in the wings for them it's all just unpleasantness like all the way down okay we did it we've arrived at the end of our show

Ella, thank you so much for joining us this week. Please tell our audience how to find you, where to find you if they don't know. Yeah, I'm Ella Yerman on all of the best best and brightest social media platforms, Instagram, Twitter,

Blue Sky, I guess. Are people doing that one still? Sometimes. Every couple weeks. Yeah. And then you can find my show going down with L. Yerman. Also, it's going down TV on Twitter and and Instagram and going down on YouTube and Patreon and stuff

yeah we're wrapping up for the year I think after next week but we'll be back next year it's a talk showy thing in front of a live studio audience it drains my all of my energy but it's so much fun it's also rewarding but you guys get it

you guys get it probably more than anyone else in adding in the live audience part like it's oh my god it's exhausting yeah well we're proud of you and impressed by you and grateful you took time to join us today and we'll have you back on again and also like and subscribe hey yeah yeah yeah supposed to say it up top but i said it here and also we love you very much like and subscribe much This ad is brought to you by Veeve Healthcare, the makers of Appritude, cabotegrivir. You never skip your SPF and you carry hand sanitizer like an accessory.

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