Some More News - Even More News: Luigi Mangione and America's Rage At U.S. Healthcare

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Hi. Katy, Cody, and Jonathan spend today's episode discussing the murder of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson, the arrest of suspect Luigi Mangione, and Americans' perennial frustration with the predatory, exploitative U.S. healthcare industry. Get the world's news at https://ground.news/SMN to compare coverage and see through biased coverage. Subscribe for 50% off unlimited access – their biggest discount – through our link. SimpliSafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our viewers. This week only, you can take 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan Head to https://simplisafe.com/morenews to claim your discount and make sure your home is safe. Check out at https://shopify.com/morenews ALL LOWERCASE and learn how to create the best retail experiences without complexity. Stop getting lost in countless finance apps and try Found for free at https://found.com/morenews Found is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Piermont Bank, Member FDIC. Found's core features are free. They also offer an optional paid product, Found Plus.

Hello! Welcome back to Even More News, the first, the only news podcast. My name, you ask? Why, it's Katie Stoll. What a bold claim! Katie Stoll is your name. Hi, I'm Cody Johnston, the first and only Cody Johnston. That we know of. Except for the other ones, which I assume are there. The first and only, and we do know of at work.

There's a Cody Johnson, who's a country singer. Yeah, except for him. Just me, just me. A wildly different name. And of course, Jonathan is also here. Hi. Hi. I'm the 43rd, the 812th.

There's a lot of them. That's right. I'm on like the fifth page of Google if you just use my first and last name. I think so. There's very prominent Jonathan Harris's out there. Yeah. Well, I don't like them.

There's a Katie Stoll who's a therapist, but I think she spells it K-A-T-I-E, which is a different name. Yeah. Well, I don't like him. There's a Katie Stoll who's a therapist. But I think she spells it K-A-T-I-E, which is a different name. Yeah, incorrect. But I bet there's another Katie Stoll floating around. And we are related. Surely. That's how it works.

Surely. No guests today, just us, which is wonderful. I like days with just us as well. Sure. We like all the days. Like all the days. It's comforting. It's like no one's going to judge. Sure. We like all the days. Like all the days. It's comforting. It's like no one's gonna judge us,

because this doesn't go out. This is just for us. This is just for us. Exactly. I'm gonna watch this so many times over the rest of my life, because this is just for us. I need to acknowledge something. Whenever I'm in the LA studio,

I drink out of this Boss Lady mug. On the back it says, be a gold digger. It's got my lipstick on it. I just really wanna make sure people know that this is a joke mug. That it was purchased as a prop for an episode of the show and I love a big mug so I use it. But I, and inside it says focused and fabulous.

Whenever I see a clip of me holding this mug, I'm like, oh, dude. Damn. It's serious. Anyway, it's not serious. Thanks for joining my Ted Talk. But you are. You are.

I mean, I am, but I'm not the kind of person that has a mug that says be a gold digger and focused and fabulous. You are focused and fabulous, come on. I should have brought my mug to this strange new location where I am right now. Yeah, Jonathan, where are you? I'm at a friend's house.

I am. So I guess Jonathan is also there, I guess, is what it would be. Yes, I'm also over there. No, my son and I got sick again this week, as we do twice a month now. That's just how the next five to six years goes, question mark. That means he is not

at daycare right now, which means we are at a friend's house. Friend is watching very night because he's not contagious anymore. It's been like, oh, a while, but whatever. But they don't let you in there. It still is very nice. My bandmate yesterday was like, yeah, sorry, my daughter's sick. I was like, oh, I'm so sorry. He's like, she's fine. They just won't let her into daycare. Yeah. Well, like.

I just have to find somebody to, yeah. I get it when it's fever, when it's rash, when there's stuff where they're like, we can't have this in here. But literally every child in there is snotty and coughing all the time, and that's how we get sick. Like, I wanna be like, but he got sick here. You're ground zero for this.

Right, right. You sent him home with this. Clearly it's fine, because that's what happened. But that sounds horrible. I feel guilty being like, take this disgusting child from me. I have things to do. So no, we're making it work.

I need to do my podcasting. I need to podcast. Please let me podcast. Oh, God, you've got Jonathan doing the weird voice now, too. Sorry. It's catching on, sweeping the nation. So speaking of that, holidays. Friday, December 13th is Pick a Pathologist Pal Day.

This is wild. Pathologists and coroners are an especially jovial lot, are they? And befriending one of them offers an ongoing reminder that tomorrow is not necessarily a guarantee. This is so dark. A pathologist studies fluids, tissues, and organs and is often instrumental in the diagnosing of illness. Okay.

Yeah, go do that. Go study some fluids and tissues and be jovial about it. Just go pick a pathologist pal. That's how it works, right? You just pick somebody. Is there a market where I can go and point out my new pal? It would be nice to have a pal who's a pathologist who prescribes stuff without having to go to the doctor

and be like, that would be nice. Look at this disgusting child who needs some, uh, who needs immediate medical attention. Right. Exactly. So thank goodness for holidays. It's also Friday the 13th. Friday the 13th and Jonathan's wife, uh, would consider it reprehensible negligence if we did not mention that Friday the 13th is Taylor Swift's 35th birthday, which is also blowing my mind a little bit because I always thought Taylor Swift

was so much younger than me. She's not. She's older than me. She was very successful. Yeah, for sure. Okay, yeah, she was. Thank you so much, John. Thank you so much.

Flattery will get you nowhere. She was very young when she started, but that, you know, time marches on for all of us. Continues, doesn't stop. Should we talk about the news, folks? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. I can't wait. We're gonna talk about the thing everyone's talking about lately these days.

It's a me, Luigi. Mario Mario's brother. But first, we just figured we'd do some updates on other news going on. For example, I'll just say per our conversation last week about... We still have a president. His is Joe Biden actually it's weird he Commuted 1500 sentences and granted 39 pardons in what is being called the single biggest single-day act of clemency in modern US history very few details seems about like those names and

the individuals being names and the individuals being pardoned or commuted, but per a conversation of like, oh yeah, maybe don't just do Hunter, maybe do like a lot. He was listening as he always does to our specific podcast. So thank you, Joe. Thanks for everything, Joe. I still think you could have done some of them at the same time as your son. I could have done a lot of stuff differently, but other stuff. I wish you'd stayed awake in that meeting in Africa.

Yeah, that would have been nice. But at this point, who cares? He already stepped down from the candidacy, not from being the president, he's still the president. Definitely still the president. Yes, he is. We already got a new one, so he can fall asleep. He can fall asleep, Joe, Since you're listening to this too. You can fall asleep

Any day any time all the time if the cameras are rolling if they're not We who cares will allow it But yeah, I just wanted to point that out as sort of follow-up of last week and that's nice of him to do Anything else other updates you want to give Mitch McConnell's talking about how like, this is not who we are. I don't know if you saw that. In regards to what? He's doing it to Donald Trump and like MAGA and stuff.

Didn't he also pass out? Yeah, he did. Maybe that was his awakening. One of the, I think the key quote there, we're in a very, very dangerous world right now, reminiscent of before World War II. Even the slogan is the same, America first. That was what they said in the 30s. Hey, Mitch, that's also what they were saying in 2016.

I don't know if you've been paying attention. Incredible stuff from Mitch McConnell. And in early 2021, when there was some ugliness, and I think McConnell could have been instrumental in making sure we're not in the situation we're in right now. Did he not vote to impeach or convict Donald Trump for the thing that he's alluding to? And to encourage others not to do so as well, because Mitch, you're the guy who gets people to vote the certain way. You could have ended this. You could have just made it not happen at all.

Since then, Mitch. And then, who knows? Do you think he forgets? Mitch? I mean, he has no idea what he did. Yeah. And we could have President Rubio right now, for all you know.

It could be Rubes. It could be DeSanto. You know, it could still be winning. It could be Rubes, it could be DeSanto. You could still be winning. It could be Mr. DeSantia. Like if it was DeSantis, I think- Did he ever dress like Santa? I don't know, probably. He'd call himself DeSanta.

I don't think he's clever enough to do that. No, he's not, but it's just such a slam dunk. Sorry, Jonathan was making an actual point. Oh, I don't remember what the point was. I mean, let's see. Well, even if DeSantis won. Would Biden have been as flustered in the first debate with DeSantis?

Would he have had to drop out? Would he, I mean, probably all the same stuff would have happened. I think the exact same stuff would have happened. Right, so you'd have a Republican president who's not Donald Trump. It would have worked out amazing for you, Mitch. You piece of shit.

You dumb fucking asshole. Bad person. Trump is, what has he fucking been saying? I don't know, Guilfoyle is what, ambassador to Greece or some shit? Yeah. So congratulations to her and her long road to working towards being the ambassador to Greece.

Hope Greece loves all your cocaine. Well no, because they split up. Well yeah, but like. Oh she did. I assume they bonded over that. It's been years, right? It's not like she was confused, like why are you acting like this all the time?

Don Jr., why are you like this? I assume that they partook together, maybe not at events when they're like sticking their hand in their pockets and then going like, getting in there. Did we ever share that video on this podcast? I don't. I don't know what video you're talking about.

Oh, there's a- Presumably we just inserted it now. Yeah, there's like a clip of Don Jr. I forget what the event was. It was some like probably somber type event and he like reached into his pocket and then he like kind of did one of these or on his teeth and gums like discreetly.

Could have been anything, could have been Zin, maybe he's doing Zin, I don't know, but also. Could have been doing Zin, could have been picking his teeth. Could have been picking his teeth. Could have been doing cocaine. Could have been doing cocaine. Cause that is, that is a telltale sign.

I believe Trump is still continuing to talk about how he wants to end birthright citizenship. And then when he's talking about it in an interview with a serious journalist, he's like, we're the only country that does it. And they're like, mm, interesting. It's not true. We're not the only country that does it.

I asked you guys this yesterday, so I already know what your answer will be. But I'm going to ask it again for the benefit of the podcast. What do you think the odds are that he's able to pull that off? Or what's the reality of what that looks like? I don't know if I can predict that or give odds. It's not what you said yesterday. Well, what I think what I said yesterday is like, well, you can't do it unless you have like Congress behind you.

Like it requires a lot of like Democrats to get on board as well. More Congress than usual because more constitutional. Exactly. Like like like doing anything like that takes a big a big swing and a lot of people in Congress. So that may be an exit not likely. But I don't think it's unlikely that he could do it via EO, and then the Supreme Court just lets it happen because that's why they're there now. Yeah. The Supreme Court says that the 14th Amendment was really just for freed slaves, and that's

what we're doing here. And it had nothing to do with immigration and the historical precedent we will ignore this time, unlike all the other times. So maybe, but I don't know. All you need is two of those six freaks to not go with it. And I feel like we might have that. I feel like Gorsuch is not gonna go for it. Gorsuch maybe not. I think that this might be pushing it.

I basically asked that question because it's extremely frustrating and infuriating to hear it brought up. And you're right, Cody, when people don't push back on it as they should to say, look, actually, that's wrong. We are not being worked on to. Your premise is wrong. Your premise is wrong. Your premise is wrong.

But this is one of those things that I'm like, we'll see, I'm not going to spend a lot of energy feeling freaked out about it at this moment in time. I don't think we should put it past him. I think, I don't know, like I think at this point, we're like in this area of like, well, it's been four years and he didn't do as much as he said he was in his first term and there was all this sort of like these, you know, barriers and stuff.

But he's been saying it a lot, everybody in the party seems to be, wanna do it. And like, I don't know, all the pieces are in place for it to still just sort of like get through in various ways. It's possible. But the pushback, 28%. Yeah, I don't know. Hopefully there's enough pushback there.

And he talks about it a lot too. So he definitely wants to do it. There's a lot of things he talks about a lot. And you have, if you have Stephen Miller in there as like what, like chief policy assistant, why forget his position? It's just like chief policy in regard to racism. Any racist policy he wants in.

Yeah, it's, yes, a racist idea guy basically. And he's back in there. So, you know, clear, like, there are all these signals, and obviously the task during a lot of the Trump stuff specifically is sort of separating signal from noise. But this does seem like a pretty strong signal that he wants to, but maybe he won't. I don't know.

Stephen Miller is like the George Lucas of racist ideas. Like, he comes up with, with like the character race slurro or something, you know? Sweet Whistling Torso, the news is a lot. I wish it was less, but it's not that. Someday we will defeat and kill the news. But for now, there's Ground News to help. Check them out at ground.news.smn.

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Again, that's ground.news slash SMN for 50% off unlimited access. The link is in the description. Hey there, you look great. That's right, I can see you. I like watching things. And that's why I have SimpliSafe to watch all the things in my yard.

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your home is safe this season. But don't wait. This offer won't last long. Keep your home, your family, and your peace of mind protected with simply safe. There's no safe like Simply Save. Is it time? Yeah, to talk about the thing? I think we should probably talk about the thing. To talk about the thing that everybody's talking about? Yeah.

I believe so. The Golden Globe nominations are out, folks, and people are going wild. Also Donald Trump is Time's Man of the Year. I mean, they do that all the time. Presidents elected often do it. Hitler was first of the year at I mean, they do that all the time. Presidents elected often do it. Hitler was first of the year at one point, right? Let's do it.

Let's talk about Luigi Mangione, the beautiful assassin. The alleged beautiful assassin. The alleged beautiful assassin. Innocent until proven guilty, right folks? I did like 10 bullet points here because there's so much here to talk about. We kind of specifically didn't talk about this last week because it wasn't clear that this would be, that it would start a national conversation about health care and a national conversation about

justified murder or what murder people. Well also at the time of recording last week it would have just been here are the broad strokes that everybody knows. Maybe this happened and then yeah. recording last week, it would have just been, here are the broad strokes that everybody knows. Maybe this happened and then, yeah. Well, I think the big thing now is that this guy, even before his identity was revealed, had become kind of a folk hero and not just on the left.

A lot of people, and part of it is an online thing. Right, the memes. The memes are online. But there is an offline sense of, yeah, what did you expect, I would say. Anecdotally. Absolutely. I don't know if there's any polling about this yet. I'm sure somebody's gonna get on that

and we'll find out really how people feel. But anecdotally, it does seem like the quote unquote normies, the suburban moms of the world, and a lot of people who have dealt with health insurance companies and this whole industry do feel similarly, not in a like, we should all go murder people way, but in a I kind of get it way.

And that's, I think, a distinction to kind of make and to sort of like, I think there's an element of this, like, where people are like, oh, like, you're going to go out and like, you're going to now we got to protect all the CEOs and stuff. And I just think there's. Yeah. He murdered a guy. But like the reaction to it is the thing that I think a lot of the focus should be, because it's not like, oh, every CEO needs to watch out, like, we're coming for you. It's just like, look at how people reacted. Look how people feel about everything going on about this industry specifically, but about like the current state of things about wealth and equality, about all these

things. And we can get into his background too, if we want. But like, the reaction to it, I think is the actual like thing to really think about. Absolutely. Whether or not we will is a different question. Or whether or not the right people will. The right people will. There is something that feels a little off in the way it comes across. It's hard. I feel, I don't want to celebrate murder. I do not support vigilante justice,

but it's something that I've expected for a long time, not necessarily in this exact scenario, but what do you expect from a, what are people supposed to do except feel some sort of satisfaction or fucking finally thank you somebody else gets it so the express level yeah the level of our distress of the system I have a family member that had a serious procedure this week and was sent home that same night from a major, major, major surgery

because insurance won't cover staying the night in the hospital. After major surgery for one night. After a major surgery and even my mom goes like yeah I understand where this person is coming from with you know and again I don't support murder. I do actually feel bad for his kids. I don't necessarily feel bad for him, but I feel bad for his children and his family. But I feel more bad for all the people that don't have any resources that lose, you know, the mothers that die and the children go bankrupt

for medical debt and all these things. It is universal among the non-wealthy, and even among some people we would consider rich. But among the non-wealthy, there are very few people in this country you could talk to who have not been touched in some way by the inequity of the healthcare system. Yeah.

And, right, I agree with you, Katie. I don't think we would like what it looks like if vigilante justice became the norm. But it's one of those things where class warfare has been going on already and in one direction. And so I don't expect this to kick off a wave of Joker-esque copycats. Also, the health care industry, it is very specific. The CEO of Walmart sucks, but you can just not shop at Walmart, and you can't get away from these companies. Everybody gets sick.

The Obamacare compromise was to force us to use one of them. And it brought health coverage to a number of people, but like, it's, there's like not having health coverage and immediately going bankrupt if something happens, or you have health coverage and then you have to fight. Like everyone knows the experience of, I have an HMO and I got a list of doctors I could go to and I called them list of doctors I could go to and I called them up and they're all like, no, we don't take that plan.

And it's a war of attrition and they wear you down and you can't go to the doctor or they won't cover something of a procedure like on and on and on. Everybody gets it. So it is no surprise that this inspired a national discussion that I believe will not go anywhere. I don't know.

Yeah, no, I know. And that's the frustration, another frustration too. And we've like kind of alluded to it last week and we've talked about it before, but just sort of to your point, Jonathan, like we have been in this class warfare for a long time and it is in one direction. It's done with paper and pen in that direction.

So it's not as visceral. It's not as in your face, not as like viscerally upsetting unless you're there and it's happening to you. But when you have this massive wealth inequality, like we there are thousands of billionaires and there are also homeless people and people dealing with this kind of stuff every single day. When you have this massive wealth inequality, that is the tension that is going to create this kind of thing. And we're seeing, like, you know, we're seeing violence a lot from the right. And like even this guy isn't like specifically like a specific box or anything like that. But it's just what is going to happen.

And we've talked about it for years. Maybe we should do something to mitigate this and to make it not happen. Right. Like there are these options that you have. Like, well, we could protect capital and really crack down on these folks and do some fascism. We could do all communism and like we don't lose our stuff and all the stuff. Or we could maybe billionaires shouldn't exist. Maybe we cap income and wealth. Maybe we do like there are all these sort of things you can do to mitigate the

frustration and this tension that has been building for so long. This sort of thing, when this sort of thing happens, I feel like if you express any of the stuff we've expressed so far, the stuff people are expressing, there's a contingency online, a lot in the media that will be like, Oh my God, this is like horrific. And I can't believe you're justifying this. And we talked about this a little bit over the past year, justification of these acts. And when you're discussing them and when you're discussing the reasons and when you're trying to understand the conditions that have led to this, many different conditions can lead to violence. And when discussing them and trying to understand them, I feel like people view that as justification,

as saying like, oh, he should have done that, or oh, they should have done that. Understanding something and explaining something and why it's happening and trying to like explore that and maybe change things materially so that it don't happen, that's not justifying it. There's a difference between understanding and justification.

Right. And it's frustrating to see people be like, I can't believe you're saying this is exactly what he should have done. I saw a really good exchange on the local Facebook, whatever, for my mountain town. Do it. And there's somebody I like,

but I don't really know their politics, but posted something, I think more libertarian leaning, saying, I'm shocked to see people celebrating murder. And then a really, really thoughtful response, and then both of them back and forth, thoughtful response, saying all of this. And this person that originally posted said, you know what, I do understand it.

It's a mess. I'm so scared for this country and where we're going that this is where I suppose I'm so scared that this is where we're going and that this is what people need to do. And I was very pleased actually with the exchange of ideas, but it did start from a place of horror. And also I I agree.

It is wild that we are at this place where it's like, yeah, a murder is being celebrated. But I do feel some sense of not justice, but like, well, what the fuck did you expect? That's interesting to see, like, just this sort of thoughtful, like, oh, I do understand it. And then the feeling is valid to say, like, I don't want mass violence everywhere. Like, nobody wants to live in a world of, like, violence everywhere, constantly being like, oh, my God, am I going to witness a shooting? It's even like witnessing something like that is tough to watch, regardless of even if you're, like, experiencing it. But we don't want that. And and so like, we don't

want to live in that world. They don't seem to care if we live in that world. And that's sort of what I you what the hope is that you sort of see like, oh, this is where we're heading. Like all the memes and all the things like, no, they really do feel frustrated and disenfranchised and desperate. There's a desperation that people feel. And I'm just gonna read this Senator Elizabeth Warren quote from earlier. And mind you, this is a Democratic Senator

who could have been the president, but you know, whatever, it didn't happen. We liked the other guy more. Violence is never the answer, but you can only push people so far, and then they start to take matters into their own hands. What happens when you turn this into the billionaires run at all is they get the opportunity

to squeeze every last penny. That's not justifying it, it's understanding it and trying to do something about it. And it's, I just wish people could sort of like see that instead of like, well, what we need to do now is just like more security for folks and more surveillance out there and all that. That's what their response is, the CEOs.

But this is, it's a let them eat cake kind of moment. It's the end of feudal societies where the wealthy landowners were barricaded in their mansions while all of the working class people are outside the gates starving, attacking. It's what this income inequality feels to them. Oh, now we have billionaire Donald Trump It's what this income and equality feels like. Now we have billionaire Donald Trump and billionaire Elon Musk just plundering the country openly.

That's why I expressed a measure of cynicism about anything good coming from this because you know CEOs and wealthy executives and billionaires are going to retreat further behind their gates and hire more security. You know, the United States has the highest GDP of any country in the world. We are not a third world country. But in an income inequality sense, there is a very stark divide that is happening. And billionaires might find themselves in a society they don't particularly wanna live in

because they can't even go to the nice restaurants without seeing poverty outside and being confronted with it. They don't wanna be confronted with the results of their actions. And we can talk about how many indirect murders equals one direct murder, right? But I do think that's what this frustration is all about and people have so little, oftentimes,

in regard to this industry that the only catharsis they can get is making a Luigi meme or talking about like the hot, no jury in the country is gonna put this hot assassin away. I don't know about that by the way. But right. Because then you have like amidst all of this you have like again like Elon Musk the richest person the richest person tweeting stuff like in most cases the word homeless is a lie. It's usually a propaganda word for violent drug addicts with severe mental illness.

Like what an evil piece of shit. What do you expect? Also you. Also no. Also no, like it's obviously, it's incorrect, it's lies, it's evil and it's lies, so doubly bad. Also like you're the drug addict, you fucking asshole. I wanna hop on about the thought of,

I mean, there's so many different topics, things, subtopics we have here to explore, but I do want to circle back on whether or not it makes a difference or does anything. The cynical part of me, the realistic part of me is no, and I definitely don't think it does anything at this moment in time. I think we're in for a lot more frustration,

but it blows my mind. Any savvy politician, because we're all here saying it, can look at this and clearly see that this is the issue, that this is one of the most important things that affects everybody left, right, those that don't vote. You genuinely get somebody out there and it gets worse and worse.

Maybe even better time, obviously, it didn't end up working for us with Bernie for lots of reasons, but zero mention of it, essentially, in this last election. Oh, of healthcare generally? Nobody's engaging with healthcare in this conversation. They abandoned it.

So actually, I get that the cynicism like, no, of course the CEOs and the insurance companies aren't going to be listening to the people because they've got their claws in us, but hopefully there's not a lot of murder going on, but this frustration bubbling up like this is not an isolated incident. We will continue to see the temperature rise.

And as fewer and fewer people can afford health insurance. And then if you do have it, how it doesn't do shit for you, how you're still wasting years of your life trying to get the things that you need and get things paid, it's only going to get worse. So I do actually think that there is potential someday, at some point, for this sentiment to affect policy. I mean, I don't have faith that it's happening anytime soon. Well, because this this stuff will keep happening. I don't advocate for it. But you

will continue. Some aspect of it for it, but you will continue. Some aspect of it probably, like the sentiment's not going away. There's also like, as a reminder, Kamala Harris ran for president and four years ago she was in favor of Medicare for All. She sure was. That went away.

And you can say like, well, she's got this thing and like we're gonna cap this and this. And like you can't, we've talked about this. We had a whole episode about it recently on some more news where you have a country that is frustrated and kind of desperate in a lot of different ways regarding specifically health care. And you have one guy saying, it's a mess. And he's like blaming Obamacare and all this kind of stuff.

But he's saying, it's a mess and I'm gonna fix it. Okay, how are you gonna fix it? He doesn't know, he's lying. He's not gonna do anything. But on the other side, you have somebody being like, it's not perfect, but we've got some things we can do. It's like, no, just say it sucks. Say it's bad.

Say these companies are vultures. Say the thing that people are feeling so that they vote for you. I saw yesterday the Pod Save guys talk about how, actually, Buttigieg's Medicare for All Who Want It was the perfect policy. So even though I disagree, and it seems like kind of, it's frustrating to hear them sort of talk around that.

At least they're like, oh, maybe we should do something about this. Maybe we should actually put forth this idea. Ken Klippenstein on Twitter dot com, the website Twitter dot com tweeted just this basic concept like, yeah, like we had a presidential election. Health care was basically basically never came up, which is mostly accurate. Again, she had like, well, we do this and like we had a presidential election health care was basically basically never came up which is mostly accurate again she had like well we do this and like we can cap it here Aaron Rupar quote tweeted that I saw and he pointed out concepts of a plan was one of the most memorable lines of the entire campaign and Harris hit Trump for it during literally every

single one of her stump speeches. That's not the same. That is saying that Trump doesn't have a plan. Look at this stupid man, doesn't know what he's doing. That's about Trump. That's not about healthcare. That's not saying healthcare is a mess, insurance companies are a mess, they're vultures, this is bad, we're gonna do something about it.

It's pointing at him and saying, look, this guy doesn't have a plan, the concept of a plan, that's funny. And neither do you. And again, you've this guy doesn't have a plan, the concept of a plan, that's funny. And neither do you. And neither do you. And again, you've got these little things you can say, but that's not, and there are good policies in there, there are good things, but as a politician,

you need to understand that that's not what people respond to. They're gonna respond to the big thing. Trump didn't build his fucking wall, but people held signs, build the wall. Maybe he won't do mass deportations now. Maybe that's just not going to be on the table. But it's a very simple concept.

And if you're being like, well, we got some work to do and we're going to do this. We're going to do this thing. This. That's just not a message that people can grasp onto. And if you're focusing on Trump says this, he doesn't have a plan. That's not actually making healthcare an issue in the campaign. That's making Trump's incompetence and ignorance an issue. It's just frustrating to see these things that we all see,

we all see it, and then just somebody's like, actually, and if you weren't paying attention, she did this in all of her stump speeches. Right, but it's like, if you, when you look at those polls of what are the top 10 issues in the campaign, economy, immigration, crime, right, people were talking about it, even though it affects everyone deeply,

but, and it's kind of like, which one influences what? Like the media and the politicians tell you what the top issues are, and then they regurgitate, oh, it's immigration. But if it was really like what people on the table were setting out, it's, health care is a top three thing at all times. And I'm not gonna be like, well, Bernie would have won.

But like, if, for example, somebody like Bernie Sanders was the candidate, and he was talking about health care all the time, and talking about like, look at this, look at this, wouldn't it be nice if we did this, if the politician, the candidate chose to talk about it, that would be on that poll. That would be an issue people care about. They set the agenda.

What they talk about, exactly. They set the agenda, they set the tone, and they know it. That's like, if you're, people are like, oh, immigration is the biggest issue. Yeah, they think that because both parties are saying it's an issue. You won't shut up about it. Both parties decide it. You won't shut up about it. So of course they're going to think that's the one of the biggest issues. If you, they're just afraid of the donors running for

the hills. Like why upset the donors and rock the boat if you don't have to? We've got the, you know, it's all wrapped up in these corporate donors. These companies are huge. They donate to both parties to get what they want. And if you want to up end this entire system, you have to convince doctors and hospitals to and pharmaceutical companies to make less money than they currently do. You have to make medical school free so we can get more doctors, right? There's all these things down the line you have to do if you want to upend this whole system. So I understand why it kind of has to be incremental.

I understand why Obamacare became what it was. But at the same time, it's like there's tipping point stuff here where people are not getting care, where ERs are becoming primary health care for a significant percentage of people. This can't go on. And so I think you'd have an easier time convincing Americans like, yeah, we just got to make medical school free. You want to become a doctor? We can do it.

And you're just going to make $160,000 a year instead of $350,000. You'll be fucked. But you're not going to be so overstressed and demand more money because you're going to have more time with your patients. You're not going to be cramming so much stuff in during the day, right?

To pay back the $200,000 in debt that you are in, right? If you have more doctors and it's easier access, then every doctor is going to be happier and less stressed out, right? Yeah, the incentives make sense every step of the way, but you have to actually address the problem. And I don't think it's as complicated as they make it out to be.

I don't think you need to do a 20-minute long winding in the details policy speech. We just kind of brought it up in the last two minutes. Not that we should be politicians or we're always that articulate, but it's pretty clear when you get down to it. It's just frustrating because it is easy if you want to do it. It's just if you have the political will and the basic concept of a plan to do it, then you can communicate that. It's that they don't wanna communicate that.

Like, yeah, you don't wanna upset the donors, you don't wanna upset your brother-in-law at Uber, right? So you're not gonna say these things. You're not gonna go after these people and these industries because that's where you get your money. It is hard out there running a small business. So many expenses to track. You have to buy all those goats and child sized clothing. I mean, don't get me started on the fire permits. Thank goodness, there's found. That's an all-in-one app that lets you manage all your financial tasks, like tracking your spending,

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Check out at Shopify.com slash more news, all lowercase and learn how to create the best retail experiences without complexity. Shopify.com slash more news, all lowercase. I wanted to ask, since there are some theories, what you both think about the arrest and the details of the arrest. I think many things about it. I've got mixed feelings and opinions.

I don't want to get out there with a bunch of conspiracies. But... there with a bunch of conspiracies. Well, first of all, and this is just like my lying eyes or whatever. Seeing the photos of him, that doesn't look like the original photo to me. The one that they had with the mask. I personally, I don't think it does. And it's not just the eyebrow thing. I think there's a headshot that's from up top with him flirting.

We need we need some more angles. And that's the thing. It's also like every angle is going to look different. There are different cameras, different lenses. There are reasons why it's like not going to match up. Personally, I saw the his full face at one point, like the first time. I was like, that's not that guy. But whatever. Maybe this.

You know, that's not like that's just me. Like, in my opinion, looking at two grainy photos of guys in hey, but whatever. Maybe it is. I know that's not like that's just me, like, in my opinion, looking at two grainy photos of guys in masks, you know, he had so much stuff on him. I mean, there's like it's also weird because why would you? Well, it's clear, like, you know, he allegedly had like, you know, a big breakdown. And there's all this sort of stuff in his life that seems to have made it a lot harder. He cut himself off from family, although at one point he was posting about how the surgery did really great and he was recommending the surgery to people, but that was only after six months,

so who knows what the effect was later. So clearly there's a lot of stuff going on with him. If you're going to do something like this, you're not necessarily straight and narrow, you got it together. But also he apparently left a backpack full of Monopoly money for the cops to find and kept a backpack with the weapon on him for days after, which is odd. There's a sense that like maybe-

And the ID that he used at the hostel. The ID used at the hostel, he used at McDonald's is odd. And then he said the money in the bag wasn't his. So we should say that he was arrested at McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania, carrying $8,000 in cash, $2,000 in foreign currency, a passport, a Faraday bag, which blocks cell phone signals, a gun and a silencer, the gun and the silencer, and a 262 word note slash manifesto slash directo.

And I would really avoid even calling it a manifesto. Like it's not like, here's my opinion about like modern society. It was like, no, here's why I did it. Like they had to come and end a story basically. The main news outlets still not reported on it? Like it's not like, here's my opinion about like modern society. It was like, no, here's why I did it. Like they had to come in and a story basically. The main news outlets still not reported on it. Cause last I checked, it was just Ken Klippenstein.

I have mostly only seen, uh, the news organizations allude to it and call it like an unhinged manifesto with all this like dangerous stuff. stuff, which doesn't seem accurate to me, but whatever. But they all have it from Ken Klippenstein's newsletter. Ken posted it. They all have it. His sources, his friends at Newsroom say they have it.

They're not publishing it. But he did. I find it a little funny that the first sentence is like complimenting the feds. That's an odd thing to include as your first statement. I mean, this person isn't one thing or another. Before we had any information, everybody was celebrating and assuming that he is some leftist hero. And the truth is, just looking at his social media

and Goodreads and all that, he's some sort of strange amalgamation of different ideologies, but kind of leaning more towards the tech-bro-y, right? Yeah, he's like tech-bro-y kind of, like, it's like this gray sort of mush of different things and like self, you know, actualization type stuff. And well, then you get radicalized by like constant pain and like you know I don't know. Yeah you know you are because he was a he came from a family of considerable means.

Ivy League you would assume this person to perhaps go into the business or tech fields and then when an injury and not just a back injury he of brain fog, I believe pre-COVID, for a number of years, irritable bowel syndrome. There were several different ailments that seemed to be plaguing him. And of course, anyone with chronic illness in this country will know that friends and family can be very supportive at first.

And then after that, after a year or so, they're like, you're not getting better yet? Like there's a, this is just a natural human thing. He clearly went through a severe trauma, had mental health issues by this point because when you withdraw from family and friends and you don't have that support system, you know, it's never so clean as to be like, oh, we can blame the left or the right for this. Even when it's, I mean, you can blame, you can blame the right on some of the white supremacist mass shootings. Oh, yeah.

Clear ideology on some of those. But like even with the Trump shooter, it's never so simple. It's not enough to say, oh, he donated to the left or the right, right? You know, like he was. I saw something I was like assuming that something I can't remember the phrasing, I saw something, I was like, assuming that something, I can't remember the phrasing, but basically, you should know that it wouldn't be somebody on the left because the left wouldn't wanna do something

that gave the left a bad name or whatever. You know, people on the left might be, I- They also don't do shit. They also don't do shit. There are people who are more likely to own guns, et cetera. There's like a numbers game here. Jonathan, what were your thoughts on the arrest? It's hard to add everything up.

I don't think he's a Patsy, obviously. I think this is the guy who did it. Because it's weird to be like, we're going to celebrate him because he did it, but also he didn't do it. Well, he's screaming outside the courtroom as he's going in for arraignment. What did he say?

This is completely unjust and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. Some people heard unjust as out of touch. Maybe I think it was unjust. I think it's unjust. And yeah, he says the like, you know, he didn't dispute the gun or anything. He says, I don't know where that money came from. I don't know if it was planted or what, you know, I don't know. Typically when I wouldn't put it past the police to like pin, like to add

evidence when there's already a bunch. Oh yeah, cops lie all the time. They do that all the time. So I don't know. I think it's more likely something weird like that or just the details are not adding up yet. I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that a customer at a McDonald's recognized the guy and told an employee and the employee called.

Like that seems, yeah. It's reasonable-ish. Again, it's like the mask, it's like, I don't, it's weird. They're, and again, I'm not like, he's a patsy or this, this, this. It just seems like the way they caught him is a little fishy, a little suspect. There are so many photos that they're releasing of him, and that seems odd to me. That is my next question.

Oh, here's him in his holding cell. Here's him, his mugshot. Here's this, here's this. They're just like a flood of just like pictures of him. Apparently the directive from the news site's sources is to not publish any more photos of him because people are just too thirsty. Well, and that's a general practice of like,

with mass shooters, you typically don't share their face or their name because you don't want copycats. And I think that they're concerned with valorizing this guy. I thought of that, like, sure. Yeah, there's also, I don't know, there are elements, again, with the masks and like I was wearing masks and except for that one, the flirty moment.

Never should have done it, bro. You shouldn't have done that, man. Just like keep a lid on that shit. But the McDonald's thing is weird to me. It just seems like such a random occurrence and the photos of him at McDonald's are odd. Like who's taking those photos and they're very grainy quality like no one's phone takes

photos of that quality it seems like a more likely thing of like always a patsy then that is like oh they kind of use like shady like surveillance things that we aren't aware of in order to catch him and that they can't say because like the day before he was caught Eric Adams was out there saying we aren't aware of in order to catch him. And that they can't say, because like the day before he was caught, Eric Adams was out there saying we don't or they were saying we have his name, but we don't want to release his name. Because we don't want to give him the upper hand, which is an odd thing to say, because like that wouldn't make any sense. You know, his name you have you have the upper hand, actually, you know, his name. He is a dumb guy, though, Eric Adams. That's the thing, Eric Adams and like the whole like, you know, cop and all this kind

of stuff. So there's elements of that where I'm like, that's just Eric Adams being Eric Adams. But then the next day, the cops, when like they were, when he was caught, they said like we didn't even have his name. He was not on our, he was not a name on our list of suspects. Which makes no sense to me because if that, when the flirty photo comes out, you can maybe understand a mother or a sibling

not turning him in, but if there's hundreds, there's thousands of people who would recognize your face. If I had a face. I saw someone post, whole shit, I'm not joking guys, I slept with. I think that's Caroline Conway and I like that she's lying. But somebody else. No, that's not what I I don't think it was her. I'm sure people have slept with him.

But like someone, whether you slept with him or not, someone is like, ah, I know that. Yeah, that's him. I got a call, you know, like someone would call. You didn't know his name. Really? Zero people contacted you That guy's got a great support system and no one would turn him in. Yeah I like I think I have a good support system too. But if there was a photo that was clearly me And I was suspected of doing a thing someone's gonna turn one. Yeah

Yeah, it's this guy I'm And with things like this, that's the thing. I don't want to be like... That's why when you asked me, I was like, I mean, some things are weird, obviously, and I've got my own reactions to certain elements of it, but there's just no verifying of any of this information yet. It's all just a flood of different reporting and stuff. And like, okay, they've matched his fingerprints to like a water bottle that was nearby or

something like that. I don't know. Cops lie. This, you know, people who are caught will often say like, I'm a patsy or I didn't do it, you know, like, there's just no way to assess this accurately. But it does seem some of the elements do seem like there are some fishy police work elements going on in the catching of him. Right. There's this interesting juxtaposition with the Fox News crowd because Daniel Penny got acquitted this week. Thank you. That's what needed to happen.

What murderers do we like? Right. Who is it OK to murder? On the subway last year. And obviously, the jury must have had questions about the threat that Jordan Neely posed. Lots of disputes there. And then, of course, there's I think

The Daily Show did a clip of Fox News, people talking about this killer, but all the graphics were Kyle Rittenhouse. So, obviously, people will find ways to justify murder or valorize murderers for the things that they think are good. Mm-hmm. Yeah. that's just how it is. Did he plead guilty? Luigi?

Luigi? No, he's not guilty. Pleading not guilty. His lawyer, his character, a bunch of characters in this, he seems like a good lawyer too, but like he's got personality, but it seems like they're going with not guilty. Hopefully a trial includes laying out a damning representation of the health insurance industry. Oh yeah, they don't want a trial.

It's about them. It's about them. I think that it would be a shame to not have a trial and have an opportunity to discuss this in the very public. That's what it would probably be. To keep the conversation going. Let's take this to trial. Let's get the discourse supercharged.

We love our discourse. And someday we'll have a movie about this. And when we watch that movie, we'll all have Medicare for all who want it. That's correct. Okay, this is not our last show before the holidays, correct? I answered my own question. It is not.

Yeah, next week or more. That's a plenty bold statement you just made. It's plenty bold. And it's true. And so don't fret. We'll be back next week. And I hope you have a good weekend. Oh yeah.

I hope you're staying hydrated. Absolutely. I hope you're leaning into whatever hobbies you have. 100%. You know, keep yourself calm in the face of the news. No doubt, no doubt, no doubt. In the holiday stress. Couldn't agree more, couldn't agree more.

And I hope that you know that we, we love you very much. Much. I mean, much. Much. I mean much. Much! Yeah. For years, Tim Ballard has been championed as a modern-day superhero. The first time I saw one of the kids from the video, and it like changed my life. He was the face of Operation Underground Railroad, a movement that inspired hope around the world by rescuing children from human traffickers. However, Ballard's crusade to

save innocent lives has always hidden a darker secret. Well, I think he's a pathological liar. Beneath the accolades and the applause, a dark storm has been brewing. I mean, I can't find a time that he's told the truth about anything. Shocking allegations of sexual misconduct have surfaced, casting a shadow over his once unquestioned reputation. I am host Sarah James McLaughlin, and in this new season of The Opportunist, we explore the rise and the fall of Tim Ballard.

Join us this October of Tim Ballard. Join us this October for Tim Ballard Unmasking a Hero. Subscribe to a new season of The Opportunist now wherever you get your podcasts.