Some More News - Even More News: MAGA is Exploiting Charlie Kirk’s Murder To Attack Everyone

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Hi. In today's episode, Katy, Cody, and Jonathan discuss the ongoing fallout from Charlie Kirk's murder and how it overshadowed yet another school shooting and the deeper implications of extremism on US society. They dig into the increasingly vitriolic language on the right and the doxxing of people, mostly teachers, who post even remotely negative things about Kirk.As always, we recorded right before that big thing that happened.PATREON: https://patreon.com/somemorenewsMERCH: https://shop.somemorenews.comYOUTUBE MEMBERSHIP: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvlj0IzjSnNoduQF0l3VGng/joinSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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At this moment. My heart stopped because I definitely need you to say more than that over the course of the next 35 minutes. Jonathan is indeed also here. Hi. Hi. Yes. Hey, hey, John. Jonathan, what happened over the weekend?

What coming together of dialogue? Oh. Have the sides, um, oh yeah, we figured it out. Bridge the divide in the name of Charlie Kirk. We came together. This tragedy brought us all closer together. Nope, didn't happen. Um, in the, aftermath of the Charlie Kirk killing, the right has decided that this is either the fault of trans people or a college professor indoctrination that has to be stamped out.

Very fast college professor indoctrination. One semester. Yeah. They're efficient. One semester at Utah State. And then it was in trade school to become an electrician, I believe. yeah um so don't send your kids to college um is uh what carry carry it's what carrie like said uh at the at the vigil and like maybe that's good advice these days you know you don't need to go to college

it's not like it was in the 80s and 90s maybe get a trade but not because you're going to be indoctrinated into no trans wokeness i'm not sure exactly i might not want to go to college these days on account of school shootings um i think that's a concern Yeah. Speaking of school shootings, we should maybe we start with the other shooting. I agree. We mentioned briefly on Friday, and it's being obviously overshadowed by the other horrific thing that happened that day. But there was another school shooting on Wednesday. At Evergreen High School in Colorado, a 16-year-old boy shot two other students and then himself.

Was this boy a trans student? No. No. And this motivation appears to be a little more clean cut. Of course, there's some online dynamics to it, but this one seems like a more open and shut case of white supremacist, white nationalist violence. White supremacist, nihilist, neo-Nazi, kind of, again, that sort of online soup that pops up quite a bit. And, you know, there's a, there's a line from, not a line of dialogue, but like a line

from, you know, Columbine to these kinds of shootings now. It's not exactly the same, obviously, because the internet wasn't around. And, like, again, it's this soup of, like, right-wing kind of, like, racist ideologies that are swirling each other. And it's no good. And also our politicians and many of our journalists are still incapable of recognizing it are talking about it appropriately or accurately? Well, because the president says it's that he probably was just upset about crime, right?

Trump went on Fox and Friends and said, well, the radicals on the right, they're just upset about crime. The real problem is the left. And he said variations of the real problem is the left multiple times over the weekend. Yeah, they're all saying that. It was very, I mean, not surprising, but alarming to hear the president just say, well, the radicals on the right agree with. with me is what he was saying.

That's what he said. Also, side note, people sharing the clip being like, he was asked how to unite the country and he said he didn't care about that. That's not what he said. He said, I'm going to say something that's going to get me in trouble, but I don't care. Radicals on the right as well.

We have radicals on the left. People have gotten or watching all of these videos and cheering. Some people are cheering that Charlie was killed. How do we fix this country? How do we come back together? I'll tell you something that's going to get me in trouble. get me in trouble, but I couldn't care less.

The radicals on the right, oftentimes they're radical because they don't want to see crime. They don't want to see crime. Worried about the border. They're saying, we don't want these people coming in. We don't want you burning our shopping centers. We don't want you shooting our people in the middle of the street. The radicals on the left are the problem,

and they're vicious and they're horrible, and they're politically savvy. So what he said was so bad, it's stunning that we need to lie about what he said. I was I was kind of blown away because I was like, but the thing he said is like awful. This thing he said is abhorrent and the actual thing should never say. Which is an interesting dynamic happening right now in general.

Charlie Kirk conversation. I'm sure we'll get into some of this. The whole idea of, oh, you're taking him out of context. You're taking this out of context. Well, the context really doesn't change anything. Maybe there are some sentences where you're like, see, he seems likable. first off no the context doesn't change the con or adding the context doesn't change the message uh and this whole idea of like well you know that's not what he was saying you have to no whatever he was saying was

bad what are you doing what are we doing oh well just wait you don't have to like with the trump thing it's like you if you misrepresent what he's saying and ignore the really bad thing that he actually said then people are going to be like oh there's the mainstream media lying about what trump said again and then it's like well no but the thing he's but you should listen to the thing he's that was bad instead of focusing on this one like blue whatever account that's misrepresenting it for whatever reason maybe they just didn't get it or understand but it's very frustrating to see and and a lot of the other charlie kirk quotes that were told or taken out of context you say oh what's the context for him saying the the the civil rights act was a mistake and then they're like

well he thought it was a mistake because of xyz and so oh okay so there is no out of context you just agree with that. You agree with what he's saying. Much of it is that. Oh, so you agree. Has there ever been such a prominent figure, someone who died who wasn't like a musician or an actor, but like a speaker, a thought leader, and there's been such an aversion to sharing those thoughts as part of eulogizing him and commemorating him?

I can't think of it. I mean, I don't know. I can't think of one. Granted, I haven't lived through other periods of time to speak firsthand to the conversations, But no, I don't. Who knows what the posts were like in 1968? It's bizarre. That's what I mean.

Well, that's a thing. Yeah. I mean, when this kind of horrible thing happens, uh, people are going to say horrible things and they're going to have all their feelings. We are, it's a horrific thing that happened in front of everybody and there's no time to process it or address it. And, uh, you know,

I've seen people share like, uh, the, uh, the only assassinate people who, uh, who, uh, who tell the truth. And it's like, Charlie Kirk next to like MLK and Malcolm X. And it's like, but they disagreed with each other. Are they both speaking the truth? Right. But they're not, they're too different. It's, it's not the same. How could they both be speaking the truth? They disagree with each other. I want to, I want to talk about this other shooting a little more real quick. Um, because it's, it's really this whole, that whole day is really, um, it's a disgusting day. that seems written in a lot of really horrific ways. And, you know, he's in the middle of talking about gun violence and all this stuff.

And it happens in the middle of that. And on the same day that he's doing this, and you can find quotes of him being like, well, some gun deaths are a sacrifice we have to make and so on and so forth. On the same day that happens, there's a school shooting that is, again, this through line of like, we, Columbine happened. And it was before the internet. And we do have, there are videos of what happened inside that school that have been shared since then. And then you see more school shootings happen.

And not all of them, but many of them are similarly the sort of like nihilistic, like just messed up soup of troubled teens and not like all the stuff that we have talked about and we'll talk about. And it happens more and more and more. And then the internet happens and happens more and more and more people. do copycat stuff. They realize like, oh, I want to be the, I want to be a famous person or whatever reason they do it. And it happens more and more and more. And then it becomes normalized. And then 10 years ago, 15 years ago, there's the onion headline. Nothing we can do about this says Nation where it happens all the time or whatever the line is. And it gets normalized and normalized and normalized. Then it happens. And on the same day, an internet celebrity. Like,

a guy who's like grew up in that environment and on this like Twitter platform where like it's like all vitriolic and like debate and anger and all the sort of stuff and it's this platform that he familiarizes himself with everybody and then this happens on the same day and it's just I just keep it's just this horrifying progression of normalization of these really, really terrible acts of violence that we accept now. And I just, I hope, hope, hope, hope, hope, that this isn't the next thing. We've normalized this, right? And now- You've normalized the school shootings. We've normalized the school shootings. And you hope that political assassinations are not the next thing. This thing, like, it's this, this celebrity and this spectacle and everything,

everything circling it is again so connected to the through line of like how school shootings have become normalized and all those aspects and it happened and then instantly everyone was like was like I don't want to use the word triggered just like everyone can't handle this instantly or like grieve or react appropriately because Because the second something happens, you have to throw your opinion out there and everyone's so upset and angry and, again, like grieving and all these sort of things. It's impossible. And it's the first like, oh, so this like Twitter, it happened on Twitter. Like it, we broke on Twitter, right?

I understand that this superseded, that this is just like a lightning rod event and sucked up everybody's intention. But it's also disgusting that that overshadowed. the other tragedy that happened at the same time. And it's galling to reckon with the fact that nobody seems to care about the school shooting, but they care very much about this one figure. And I understand why they care very much about this one figure. But it is, and to your point about reacting in real time, it's things go so fast.

Everybody has to get their opinion out there, have to claim their ground in the landscape of the discourse before everything. moves on and um and half of it is misinformation too and it's like you're throwing it out there like back in the day um you know a different era of political assassinations uh the thing happened and it was terrible and you grieve or uh you know some people do celebrate that like when m lk was shot like there were people who were happy about that most of that happened was attacked there was people but like i'm saying like back in the day most of that happened privately at like a dinner or something or like you say something and then like then a day goes by and

you like kind of calm down and like you talk about it with people and then you read the news like oh this information oh now I have this information and it's just this gradual thing that like allows people to grieve appropriately and all these things that we don't have now it's all crammed into one moment and it's not good and I that's all I guess I'm saying the internet sucks This ad is brought to you by Veeve Healthcare, the makers of Appritude, cabotegrivere. You never skip your SPF and you carry hand sanitizer like an accessory. But what are you doing for HIV prevention? One way to help protect yourself from HIV is Appritude,

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Bring your A-game and talk to your doctor. Learn more at Appritude.com or call 1-888-24030-4-0-3-0.0. I want to focus a little bit on the attacks on trans people, which of course I've been escalating for years now, but some people have focused in on the trans angle to this, I suppose. The governor of Utah and Cash Patel, some bits of information are coming out that the shooter may have had a partner, a partner, partner or roommate. Definitely a roommate, potentially a partner that may have been in the middle of transitioning. Okay. They are trying to connect this to, well, now it's not just trans people. We have to worry about being violent extremists, but trans advocates, as the New York Post said. And I would argue trans advocates to them as anyone who doesn't hate trans people and want to

discriminate against trans people. And that's an awful lot. of people now do I know for a fact that the shooter wasn't going after Charlie Kirk because of the the targeting like his partners you know like I have no idea identity or whatever we don't know but the idea that now we have to broaden the circle which is the first they came for the thing like they're broadening the circle now to try and make the left as a part of this right and So that's why, you know, we've all been saying, like, if you don't stand up for trans people, if you don't, like, make this a line in the sand, you're next. And that's, you know, not the only reason to do it, right? Like, you should just do it because it's the right thing.

And if you're a Democrat and you're throwing trans people under the bus, that's bad, regardless of what the ramifications would be. But it's pretty disgraceful that it's gotten this far. Yeah. And in addition to that, yes, that's the trickling of information that we've had, but we actually don't know anything. And this was the narrative out at the gate. And it's tough. I don't want to be conspiracy theorists. We are waiting for information.

We are all going to get more information. It's hard right now to trust the investigation knowing that there is a predetermined outcome that they wish for. And for all of those reports, you know, there's like, oh, an old. old friend said that he was a leftist and then they retracted that his family says the opposite you know the inscriptions could mean a lot of things

there is a valid case to be made that maybe he's involved in an ultra right wing online radicalization pipeline the grippers or whatever I don't even want to say that it can be both it can be both it can be all of it but the way that it's

at this point it feels that no matter what information comes out, they still want to spin it that way. And I mean, it's felt that way from the get-go. And I think that is part of what is, I know that is part of what is so fucking terrifying about this moment in time. And you're right, Jonathan. This just speaks to the absolute need for people to stand with the trans community because it's clearly, clearly the scapego that they're looking for. Well, right. It's their narrative. they would love to keep pushing it forward like this and completely villainize people and act.

I mean, you've got some of the real far right influencers out there saying that this is just another piece of evidence and the proof that like being trans somehow makes you a violent, violent extremist, which I don't even understand the pathways there. Like, how are they even trying to like, I don't understand what the argument is. They're just like, well, these three events thus. and then if you bring up like well every other shooting is a white cis guy like it because if you're i mean you can take these three examples or four examples and i mean many of them are like here 10 trans shooters like there's like three of them are are that so they're also spreading this information but i think

just the idea is that like if you're if you say that you are um you know under attack uh which trans people are in many ways then that means that you're like you're angry and you're you're like you're dangerous and you're violent because how vocal they are about being under attack, I think is the implication. And I don't know exactly other than they hate trans people and they want to demonize them is what it really comes down to. Can we talk about the people who are losing their jobs because of their posts and... You mean the quote unquote Charlie's murderers?

Yes. the Charlie's murderers. So that was a website, and I say was because they've changed it somewhat, but it was a website where they'd compiled what? Was it 20,000 or is that a separate list? It was 20 to 50,000, I think. People who had criticized Charlie Kirk or celebrated his death, and it was both. Well, they were framing it as celebrating.

They're framing it as people that have been celebrating Charlie Kirk's death. however when you actually see the posts they aren't at all not um i'd like to read actually the very first example because they know that like they know this isn't like oh we're like we're defending charlie because also charlie kirk was a free speech absolutist quote unquote and uh so he i you know even though he had like what professor watch and they were all about the cancel culture whatever um also i i will say being like oh this is just like right in cancel culture this isn't cancel culture this is a bunch of fascist opportunists using this to do a purge of people they don't like institutions um a mass a mass a massive a fascist purge um and i know

they don't like us using the word fascist but i'm not sure how else you describe it um yeah we'll we can talk about that too because we're you know that words have definitions and we use them um but i want to read on this website that again they changed the name um and also they said like we're a data collection website and like it's all through donate to us through crypto because it costs a lot of money to like run a website it's a complete scam and a fascist purge of people they don't like. Why not do both? Why not do both? But when it was called Charlie's murderers and we're like we're just going to we're holding people accountable for people celebrating his murder. I'm going to read the first example because this this says it all.

This tells the game. This says that they don't really believe what they're saying. This first example, the top of the page, the first one. This woman named Rachel, that's all I'll say. Terrified to think of how far-right fans of Kirk aching for more violence could very well turn this into an even more radicalizing moment. Will they now believe their fears have been proven right and feel they have a right to retaliate regardless of who actually was behind the initial shooting? So just accurately describing the thing that they're doing. This moment in time. Like that just sounds like good commentary to me. Yes. It is. Yeah, you nailed it. She follows it up. They are This is actually technically the first thing, because this is a quote tweet of her tweet.

I don't believe violence is ever the answer. It just makes everything worse. That was my point with this post. I don't want to live in a world where this is how we resolve disagreements. This event risks bringing that world closer to reality. I hope Charlie survives. That's the first example of Charlie's murderers. Such a good take.

That is not violent. That is not celebrating. That is honest. And the amount of people that genuinely think that's considered celebrating? Yeah. Or they don't care if it's not. They don't care.

They don't care. They're full of shit. Some people are genuinely upset about some horrible, like things. I'm like, oh, I'm glad this, this, this. There's some stuff out there that is very hard to read for people. I understand. Yeah, I don't want to pretend like there isn't. But this is, again, this is an opportunity for them to attack.

the left and trans and everybody they're just taking advantage of it in any way they possibly can NPR said that as of Friday they had confirmed 33 people who had lost their jobs or were under investigations over their posts

most were public school teachers by the way like I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court said decades ago that you can't be fired like if you're a public school teacher you can't be fired for your speech outside the classroom unless it is you know recklessly false and uh you know maybe some of them were but judging from uh that that post you just read

cody um maybe they were more of the uh latter variety and that's not you know that's not some examples are going to be worse some examples are going to be even better like where it's like well that's that's nothing um some of them are literally just quotes like charlie kirk quotes yes that i guess they don't want to defend and a lot of these people who have been fired are people who have of course criticized cancel culture in the past like lives of tic-tok is a let's get people fired account yes that is that person's job i guess uh is to post the most incendiary things she can find to try to get uh people in her out groups like teachers and nurses fired uh or uh get some bomb threats at hospitals and schools as well um which is something that has happened uh so many

these people are either against cancel culture or again, it's not the same thing, but that's what they're their free speech people or whatever. Or they're like, we can't have this like this society that's like built on violence and this and this and this. There's a guy who's like did a tweet like that. But like a year ago and this is a since deleted tweet, quote, anyone who murders Kamala Harris would be an American hero. Who tweeted that? That's just the libertarian party of New Hampshire. I mean, Charlie Kirk talked about Biden should be executed for his crimes against America. Donald Trump, truth social, that truck that had the drawing of Biden, like, tied up the bed of the truck on it. I want to read this Matt Walsh tweet, only one.

I'm sorry. I'm not going to read all it because he's been saying a lot of stuff that I don't be sorry. Yeah, a lot of it is, yeah. Very incendiary, Civil War type stuff. Matt Walsh tweets, there is a big difference between. the left cancelling people and the right canceling people. The left cancels you for saying things that are true. To the extent that the right cancels you, it is for saying things that are abhorrent and sick, a pretty important distinction. I would love to get an example from Matt

of the left canceling someone for saying something that was true. What thing that someone said that they were fired for would you like to defend as true? I would say it is, I mean, the one I, the one I think he would probably say because it's the one that's like it's James DeMore right the guy who wrote the manifesto at Google who was like women shouldn't be coders or whatever like Matt Walsh would 100% agree with that guy

he would absolutely defend that but to your point almost every other example is like someone using the N word or like being extremely racist or whatever and I don't think he would be able to fully defend that kind of thing right we were the even even Matt Walsh had trouble defending the woman who called the kid the N-word at the park who made hundreds of thousands of dollars

on gives and his defense was his defense was we got to we just got to because otherwise exactly all of these other people deserve it though because they're saying things that are abhorrent and sick from my Matt Walsh's perspective but I don't think

the entire country should operate off of Matt Walsh's perspective because his perspective to me is messed up yeah he also in his bio calls himself a theocratic fascist but then if you say that he is one then you're like inciting violence or something no because I can say you can't you know no he's funny and he puts on like wigs the funniest guy asks people I'm actually it's not even ironic and I think

we've made this clear but like oh Charlie just wanted to talk to people Charlie wanted to find the common ground you what's wrong with Charlie's message we need to continue Charlie's message are you trying to find common ground, are you trying to talk to people? No, the time for talk is over. It's over. It's over. Well, also, he was just trying to talk to people.

Well, he was, I mean, originally, Turning Point USA was funded by the Koch brothers, and it was like an astro-turfed, like, organization to infiltrate college campuses and do propaganda for the government. He's Trump and RFK's guy. He just does, exactly. He just does. He's a, it's a propaganda thing. And again, I'm not, this is so frustrating because, like, I'm not justifying it.

Obviously, I'm not justifying what happened. But don't lie. He's just having a good faith conversation. He was a paid propagandist. He was a propagandist for the government, for the president. And J.D. Vance is hosting his show today. The vice president should not be on Rumble. The website he co-owns?

Does J.D. Vance have an investment in Rumble? Yes, he does. Maybe not still, but probably still. get away with anything these days. I'm going to take time out of my busy schedule. I was going to meet the president of Finland today, but instead I'm going to host a podcast. Yeah. Well, there's no votes in the Senate to break. You know, who wasn't canceled is Fox News is Brian Kilmead. Oh, good. That's a not canceled guy. We've all seen the clip, so we'll play it here, but we can just talk about it. I got a lot of, and I know this is just posts and like whatever, but a lot of people were telling me that I was taking

this clip out of context they're saying he clearly is a new favorite accusation yeah the out of context they're like you brian kilmead clearly was talking about the arena zarutska murder zoned out of the conversation didn't hear what his co-host said and then just said we should give the murderer a lethal injection just kill em kill em billions of dollars to mental health and the homeless population, a lot of them don't want to take the programs, a lot of them don't want to get the help there that is necessary, you can't give them a choice. Either you take the resources that we're going to give you, or you decide that you're going to be locked up in gym.

That's the way it has to be now. Or involuntary lethal injection or something. Just kill them. Brian, why did it have to get to this point? Right. I would say this, we're not voting for the right people. In North Carolina, wake up. Also, if you were just talking about one person and you wanted them to get the death penalty,

would you call it an involuntary lethal injection? No, it's like, and I don't doubt that the people who were saying this to me believed it. It just comes off his bad faith because it's so dumb. But, like, he clearly was listening to the conversation. He was engaged and felt completely comfortable saying, I think we should just kill them. Just kill them. About homeless people. Maybe he was separating it to mentally ill homeless people, but not better.

Yeah. Oh, and like, what is that? That's no distinction because that just say anybody that's homeless is mentally ill. If he's been taking our context, he would have explained himself when he apologized, which he did kind of. Yeah. He said he shouldn't have said it. It was crass. In the morning, we were discussing the murder of Arina Zerushka and Charlotte, North Carolina.

How to stop these kinds of attacks by homeless mentally ill assailants, including institutionalizing or jailing such people. people so they cannot attack again. Now, during that discussion, I wrongly said they should get lethal injections. I apologize for that extremely callous remark. I'm obviously aware the not all mentally ill homeless people act as the perpetrator did in North Carolina. Again, it's this, this, it's what we talk about, it's what we've talked about today and all the days, this imbalance of like, so you can't say Charlie, I hope Charlie survives and I hope This doesn't get more violent, but you can say we should just kill the homeless people. He also said that.

That's, okay. He said it a few hours before Charlie Kirk got murdered, and it just didn't take off on the internet until Saturday. So he almost got through it. He almost got away with it. And this is the first Fox News apology I can remember in a long, long time. Like, this blew up enough to where they're like, you got to say, you're sorry. For saying we should kill the homeless people amidst all this yeah I was surprised I was surprised they they circled back on it So kudos for him kind of apologizing hats off to box also it's this kind of thing where it's like okay

That was a callous thing to say go go further think more about it why did you say that do why do you think it's wrong to say do you do like are you going to like are you going to like assess like like how fucked up it is that you said that and maybe and maybe like extrapolate maybe like I know obviously it's like whenever something like that happens I'm always like okay so you know so you're saying that's fucked up go farther what else maybe is circling around this ideology of killing homeless people might be fucked up in your brain um think a little farther no brian it's because it was a mistake that's what he thinks those are his thoughts and I think he was surprised that it had a backlash that maybe it would just get through

and again sure good job Fox News for whatever forcing him to apologize yeah all right we have time for one more quick little tidbit Ben Shapiro yes yeah I want to talk about this kind of like

two like moments these clips people have been sharing I mean this one clip has been going around because Shapiro is on Bill Mar who we love now. We love Bill. And he was, Ben was talking about, you know, all these shootings. And when it's this, when it's this kind of target, it's usually this person. When it's this, this, this. And we know that this shooter is a leftist. And Bill Maher was like, well, no, we don't actually. And he basically

pushed back on this idea. And there are two elements of this that I think, I have not been discussed. If there's a shooting at a synagogue, it is very likely to be either a white supremacist or a radical Muslim. If it is a shooting of a Republican politician, it is very likely to be, a trans-antifa Marxist shirt. That is just not true. We don't know what this kid is. We do know this kid was of the left. We do know that.

We do know what? That this kid was of the political left. That is according to contemporaneous reporting from The Guardian as well as Tablet Magazine today. It's two days out. We don't know shit, Ben. We don't know shit. They never do.

The Internet is undefeated in getting it wrong to begin with. It's not about the Internet. That's about the actual reporting by mainstream, except the Guardian is not a right way. Here's what I heard. Here's what I was told so far, and I'll tell you what was wrong. First, I heard he's a registered Republican. Not true.

Okay. Then he was a donor to Trump. Not true. His father works in the sheriff's office. Not true. There was a picture of him wearing a pro-Trump shirt. Not true. A member of the Democratic Socialists of America.

Not true. We don't know what he is. Well, how are you so sure he's of the left? Now, I agree when you write on a bullet. What did he write on the bullet? I catch this. Catch this fascist, which is also a gamer thing. Okay, but now I'm hearing he may have been part of that group for whom Charlie Kirk was not right-wing enough.

I mean, the Groyper's, yes. I mean, so that you're sure he's not that? I'm not sure that. Oh, a minute ago, you were sure what he was. Hold on, Bill. Hold on. Okay, because I've been. You were.

Good job, Bill. I didn't realize it was that harsh, Bill. It is. Do you have to ever hand it to Bill? are? I think we can hand it to him sometimes. You can hand it to him on that one. But then we take it back. Wow. We hand it to him and then we take it back from them. So this is part of what I want to talk about and obviously like, you know, good job just being like, but you just said that you were sure. Now you're saying you're not sure because of all these things I said. The beginning

of it, Penn is talking about when it's, uh, excuse that quote, when it's a synagogue, it's usually someone the right. When it's, uh, like a Republican, it's usually like a radical leftist or whatever. Um, obviously there's data of, uh, the big imbalance of like right wing violence. and left-wing violence we've talked about it people talk about it people lie about it all the time look it up or don't what one of the 10,000 charts they're all out there they don't exactly they're all out there uh nobody cares but that's the data um what he doesn't mention and uh i just think it's so again it's very disingenuous and frustrating when he's like well when it's the synagogue it's this or this person when it's this is this person when it's he doesn't mention when it's a mosque

because when it's a mosque, for example, in 2018, there was a shooting at a mosque in Quebec. They were just a huge fan of Ben Shapiro and his videos. And he checked his like Twitter account like 92 times a day or something. And when that happened, he was like, I'm not going to be held. I'm not responsible for that kind of thing. And I'm not even saying it's his fault or it's this or this. But there's something when something like that happens, You should think, like, oh, my God, should I adjust how I speak or like, should I do something about this?

And he, he like, virulently did not do that. He like stubbornly said like this, nothing to do with it. I'm not going to address it. Especially since essentially, sorry, Cody, I have to interject and say, the argument that you're making is, oh, well, it's, you know, radicalized by leftists online and leftists really need to or liberals really need. need to to figure out their rhetoric. This is their problem. Blah, blah, blah, but you're not going to take personal responsibility or even not saying that you have to take personal responsibility, but even have that sort of self-reflection for yourself. Not even for a moment. Maybe privately, maybe. Well, right, because you're not saying that, because obviously Ben Shapiro has never told anyone to go shoot at a mosque. I can only imagine how Hassan would react if this kid watched a bunch

of Hassan Twitch streams like there would he would be horrified you would see it like you can we would and I know that you can we would and I know that we sure would of anything because it hasn't happened but like there was a shooting in like Dayton years ago and the guy

had like retweeted one of our some more news videos it was about how you should vote funnily enough nothing to do with guns or anything like that it was about how you should vote and it turned out to be like a domestic thing but like that fucked me up for a while. It's really, really messed up to see. Stopped this show. I'm going to say this. Cody,

thank you for sharing that. I wasn't going to share that anecdote. But Cody went through a real personal crisis and we talked extensively about this for a long time and he was in a dark place over it. Even though there was there was nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Our rhetoric, what we talk about is completely at odds with what this person did but hell yeah there was a lot of

serious self-reflection yeah and not even like we're gonna not do this anymore but like should we do it differently are we gonna like should we talk differently should we like there's like there was but I mean you were deeply affected by it is my point is that you felt fuck me up really fucked up

it's horrifying to see something like that done even like tanget like it's yes I'll just say yes it yeah and we're still doing it obviously and like it's you know it's but like to your point like yeah if if it was explicitly like oh yeah they watch all of his son's videos and like they this this this that would fuck him up because that's it should um and the fact that it didn't maybe ben went through that and just knew he had to kind to keep it and bury it to himself like we don't know that it's just like that's why you know you you know there's there's thousands of comments on our videos and tweets and all this stuff and uh you know

a lot of people go harder i would say um than we do at charlie kirk after the after he was killed but it's you know words have words have resonance no one's saying that criticizing someone leads to violence but no one's saying that people don't get ideas in their head based on the words they hear whether those words are incendiary or not right I think we can stand tall in the argument that the rights language is more incendiary than the lefts like I agree flat out I would stand behind that I'll pull a quote for quote with 100% that is a hill I would die on um 100% there's another few seconds of a clip from that same episode that I do want to show as well these videos of

Charlie being assassinated, have tens of millions of views online. Think about what that does to the body politic. Think about what it does to the body politic. Think about what it does to the body policy. And the social media system is so perverse. I mean, these are snuff films of my friend getting shot to death. And those snuff films, they're people who get some sort of sick thrill from that. And those are the next assassins.

And a permission structure that allows that, whether that's a social media or a political infrastructure that refuses to call out the movements that, again, say that other political arguments make you an enemy, a threat to my life that requires me to take action, any movement that does that is doing something deeply wrong. Okay. So he's talking about how framing, you know, movements or political ideologies is like existential threats or dangerous is bad. But that's all he does. That's just what they all do. They call leftist ideology like evil, satanic, like liberalism is a mental illness, these things. That is their entire project is framing it like that. The mosque shooting, there's a video that Ben did about how there's a myth of the radical of the moderate Muslim

and they're all radical and it's an existential threat that we all need to be worried about. That's just what he said. And again, maybe he's come around to not doing that or talking like that but he never addressed it at all and now he's just sort of flipping it around and being like all the left always talks about how like oh this is an extra threat it's like but you do it all the time matt walsh does it all the time your entire website is built on how the dangerous commie trans people are like coming for you um it's just it's just it's very frustrating to see that kind of thing happen when he knows probably maybe forgot about it all um Which I would understand, who would want to remember that?

But I don't know. I, again, I just... You're right, Cody. Of course, you're right. Either you're forgetting or purposely omitting your own self. I guess that's what really bothers me. There's lots that bother me, but yeah, just the total lack of accountability and insistence on finger wagging instead of self-reflection.

And to be fair, I think that we, everybody should self-reflect about. how we comport ourselves in the public space and yes, our words, again, not saying that that doesn't mean you can't define things properly when something is fascism. You get to call it fascism. I agree with you completely. I agree with you completely. Jonathan, do you agree with us completely? 98%. Oh, no. I'm putting you on a list. 100%. Are you kidding? We're going to end this show here. This is a big soup of talking discussion, but I'm grateful to start my week off with you guys and all of you at home. And we'll be back very soon.

We'll be back very soon. With even more of this. And please remember that we love you very much.