Some More News - Even More News: They Have So Many Excuses For The Signal Chat Fiasco And They're All Dumb

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

Hi. Katy, Cody, and Jonathan welcome Ed Zitron to talk about the Trump administration's ongoing efforts to prove that doing a bombing over a Signal group chat is no big deal. Plus, they discuss Trump's executive order attempting to restrict voting, the kidnapping of Tufts student Rumeysa Ozturk, and signs that the AI bubble might soon burst.Get the world's news at https://ground.news/SMN to compare coverage and see through biased coverage. Subscribe for 40% off unlimited access through our link.https://youtube.com/@smnPATREON: https://patreon.com/somemorenewsMERCH: https://shop.somemorenews.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hi, hello, welcome back to Even More News, the first and only news podcast. My name is Katie Stoll. Hi, hello, what's up, how's it going? I'm Cody, welcome to you welcoming me. How's it going? I'm Cody welcome to you Welcoming me. Thank you for that. I feel welcomed. We would also like to welcome Our guest this week host of the podcast better Offline CEO of easy PR and writer of the newsletter. Where's your ed at? It's Ed Zitron What's up? What is I up? I am just going insane.

I've spent the whole week reading financial failings. I'm like deep in the weeds now. I'm like Michael Burry's character in the big short except instead of Mastodon it's five finger death punch. Don't do that to yourself. Yeah, I truly hate myself deeply. And also I'm not gonna have insane anti-lockdown stuff. It's really not great looking up what happened after the big short for many reasons, but none of the characters have gone particularly well. Like none of the guys, the movie and the frame it like they were gonna go on to great things, and the most part they did not.

Disappointing, not surprising. Not me, I'm gonna be fine. That's right, exactly. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that Jonathan is also here. Hi. Feel free to be remiss sometimes, Katie. It's a hell. I don't know.

I felt free to be remiss a couple times and then I heard about it in the comments. Oh yeah, they'll come after you. The J-Hive will be there. Did they get mad for you not mentioning that Jonathan was here? There was so many people saying like, is Jonathan also there? This one looks being hella remiss.

Yeah, I think so many comments. A thousand likes just to the one person saying that I was remiss. We're starting a little army, a metaphorical army, but still, they're there. All right, well, we've got holidays to celebrate. I don't want to miss those either Friday March 28th National something on a stick day Jonathan get out here is it Observed each year on March 28th national something on a stick day is a food holiday that lets you use your creative talents Once you get started the possibilities are endless. Hey

creative talents. Once you get started, the possibilities are endless. Hey, wait. I disagree with what you just said. You wrote it. Did not. You copy pasted it. It's in quotes. It's in quotes in the doc.

He didn't write it. It's in quotes. He's like, did not. That makes more sense why I saw a video in my feed yesterday about a woman taking a perfectly delicious looking cake and then pop tarts and blending them up. Yeah. And then mashing them into a thing and putting a stick in it. So it's like a cake pop. It looked foul.

That sounds disgusting. Well, Ed, we're going to definitely talk to you about AI stuff, but we're going to save that for a little bit. But before we dive into the heavy hitting news, I'm just going to mention that you are a baseball guy. I am. And it's today opening day. It is and the game is happening as I'm on this podcast. Oh my goodness. You are missing the opening day game. That's fine. I'll be fine. There's plenty of time to watch the Mets lose. My goodness. It's such a long season. I was shocked. Yeah. I'm writing a

Mets column for the baseball prospectus as a guy who is not like a sports journalist, and it's definitely going to be fun. That sounds fun. I have like a lot of things I do, I guess, like all the time. Your hands are in a lot of different buckets. Yeah, exactly. My hand is in a lot of slop. I'm slop diverse.

You're very funny. I'm enjoying you so far. Okay, good. Yeah. I'm slop diverse. You're very funny. I'm enjoying you so far. Okay, good. Yeah. Um, all right, let's keep this momentum going and just dive right in to the story that all of us have been slopping up all week. Now it's our time to slop it back out. The signal chat.

Indeed. I probably don't need to recap this, but the Atlantic in response to denials from the Trump administration that quote war plans and quote classified information were present in that group chat, which included Atlantic editor in chief Jeffrey Goldberg, the Atlantic released the full chat yesterday and those war plans or attack plans, whatever you want to call them, do contain very detailed specific of when and where stuff was going to be blown up. Surely nothing top secret though. I mean you can decide for yourself.

1215 ET, F-18's launch, first strike package. 1345 trigger based, F F18 first strike window starts target terrorist is at his known location so should be on time also strike drones launch MQ9s mind this is all before it isn't like a retrospective this isn't like we just did it this is like in an hour and 20 minutes it's a timeline of what is going to happen. But don't worry, as Pete Hegseth said in that chat, we are currently clean on OPSEC, which is operational security. So what's the problem? Well, yeah, if they're clean on it.

It's not that bit in the office where he declares bankruptcy. You just say it, it's fine. I declare we are clean on OPSEC. We're clean, OPSEC's clean. We're done. Like, QED. This news was breaking as we were recording our Monday episode, and so we, I think we referenced it, and then we all got off of that and we're like, At the very end of the episode, I was like, oh, by the way, this thing just happened.

FYI, I've just been added to a chat called governmentsecrets.biz. Don't worry, I'm going to leave immediately. There are so many things to be said I'm glad that they printed the receipts that they had because boy it was very chaotic to watch them try to come up with justifications or excuses which we are gonna run through right now just the wildness of him being added to this chat I'm still wrapping my brain around that. I mean, the SEC a few years ago fined over 100 million dollars,

I think it was to like traders using WhatsApp to discuss customer stuff. Like this stuff is like very clearly the thing you do not do for this. Right. Like there are multiple layers of things that you don't do this with. I would say this is probably the big one though. But apparently not. Apparently it's not classified and it's fine. Again, the recurring segment on this show and all shows that we ever make is the hypocrisy of obviously.

But what if your opponents did this? The double standards of, but her emails, of everything. And yet this, all the hoops you're, you would think that this would be a slam dunk of, yeah, we shouldn't have done that. Not a slam dunk, but very easy to say, oops, that was a mistake, but no, you're gonna double down on this.

Yeah. What are some of the excuses, Jonathan? You pick a fall guy, you pick somebody. It was that person. End of story. Although it's clearly Mike Waltz who like added it at the top. So just just the absurdity of standing up there and say, we're going to investigate and figure out how this happened.

And then you show the receipts and it's right there. Michael Walls added you to it. So funny. That's what happened. We see it. Same thing with what Tulsi was asked, like, did you use your private or your personal phone? And she was like, that's under investigation. And it's like, what do you mean? But what phone were you using?

The iPhones look the same. Which phone was it? You're like, whatever. They're all serious people. I tracked down five different excuses that are sometimes contradictory here. But I- What?

I refuse to believe that. Yeah. They got their, they have their shit set up pretty tight. Are you suggesting that they didn't immediately talk to each other about maybe what they should choose as the lie to tell? No coordination. Like, why would you not?

There's something that I think that they're used to now, like the Trumpy people in general, where it's like, we just say whatever, we'll get away with it. You can lie, you choose a lie, you choose a lie. Yeah, they just say whatever and whatever works, they'll go with, but they don't decide ahead of time. And they'll just keep doing it.

It's the fact that they can just be like, no, I'm not. And the Democrats are like, nah, you got to give him that. You got to let him, just let him, look, you said he didn't do it. I mean, there's evidence, there's screenshots, there's proof, we've got scary experts who say this is terrible, we know that this is bad, you're not meant to do it, it's definitely illegal in some way, but, who hasn't fucked up on a group chat? Who among us? Who among us?

So that's one of the excuses. That was gonna say that sounds like an excuse that one would give for those. The one I wanna start with is probably the most confusing one. And this is Mike Waltz on Laura Ingraham explaining himself. Kind of indignant that he even has to be there. Like, they're so upset that they have to deal with this. It's absurd. This is a little, this is not the whole segment, it's a little super cut I made of some of the vague excuses.

But how did a Trump hating editor of the Atlantic end up on your Signal Chat? You know Laura, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but of all the people out there, somehow this guy who has lied about the president, who has lied to Gold Star families, lied to their attorneys, he's the one that somehow gets on somebody's contact and then gets sucked into this group. I mean, I don't mean to be pedantic here, but how did the number ever had? Have you ever had somebody's contact that shows their name and then you have and then you have somebody else's number there? Those mistakes, right? You've got somebody else's number on someone else's contact. So, of course, I didn't see this loser in the group.

It looked like someone else now, whether he did it deliberately or it happened in some other technical mean is something we're trying to figure out. If this is so hard for you to figure out that you added him to the tech school, I don't know that you should be in charge. You gotta resign, dude. You gotta get somebody else to do this job. At least have someone else handle your phone. And Ed, maybe you'll be able to enlighten me a little bit about the signal of this all, because I don't have signal, I don't really know how it works. But he's suggesting that Jeffrey Goldberg took on some assumed identity, somehow got added to this secret chat that people in the chat can't see exists, and in a way where

other people wouldn't be able to see the member. Is that how Signal works? Wait, run that by me. He's saying, he's like, did you ever have someone else who was on the wrong contact, but that doesn't matter because you didn't add him. We don't know how he got added. And so of course I didn't see this loser. So he was, it's unclear if he's saying

that there was a different identity. Yeah, if they added someone, did he mean to add someone else? Did he meant to add somebody else that's JG? Some JG. Who's JG? But also, I'm just gonna say, Jeff Goldblum.

If you're adding based on, see this is the problem that you run into when you add only based on first and last initial, maybe with something as serious as this, maybe look at the full name before you add them. Fair point. I don't wanna get too far in the weeds on this because there's a lot more elements to get through.

Oh yeah, it's like the excuses are merely only funny, but it's part of the tapestry of like you're just figuring out what lies to tell in real time. What's another excuse here we got? Well, that it wasn't classified. I think they've backed off of this for a minute because Tulsi Gabbard told the Senate Intelligence Committee that no classified information was revealed in the chat. But as the President National Security Advisor stated, no classified information was shared.

There were no sources, methods, locations, or war plans that were shared. Then of course the full chat was revealed, so now they're in a position to say that that stuff wasn't classified. And this is similar to another excuse, which is that they weren't war plans, they were attack plans, because when the Atlantic published the full chat, their second article, the headline said attack plans, whereas the first one said war plans, and then press secretary Carolyn Levitt is attached to that. Like see, they've even conceded that they're not war plans. Quick question.

Do you... Where do attacks tend to happen? Vacuums. Oh. Panic? Anxiety? Yeah. Like in general, where does an attack of this nature, does it tend to happen when we're

at war? Sure. I don't know. I ain't no army expert. Well, we certainly... I just go on the war front before. Well, we're technically not at war, even though we're always at war. So that's the beauty of it.

We really, that's the point, the real point is there is this gray area where we are almost always at war, but very rarely have we officially declared war. But we're bombing places, baby. We are our- Yeah, but America loves doing that. We've got our fingers in that slop. Yeah. America just loves a good little bit of war.

Can't get enough of it. Nah, you can take the Britain out of the country, but- Yeah. We've got to wait around for fucking- It's also irrelevant because whether it's war or an attack, clearly Pete Hegseth understood the need for secrecy or else he wouldn't have put we are currently clean on op sec You know not into the chat because if he should have put dot dot dot not that it matters anyone Oh, right. Also like this dot dot dot not

JK I would be funny like that would have been funny actually But like it's that's the thing. It doesn't matter because I don't know if I've, I don't think I've seen anybody actually ask this. Let's say that JG published this two hours before the attack. Would that have been a problem for them? Would they have tried to arrest that man? Like it's absurd to think that this wasn't something that they needed to keep classified. And just to, sorry, just to pull back on the whole war

of it all, the constant war that's not actually a war. These are our anti-war presidents and vice presidents. This is the anti-war establishment that was allegedly voted in. Promised. That's what they framed themselves as. And if you read some of the text, that is not what's going on. Obviously And if you read some of the text, that

is not what's going on. Obviously, that was never going to be the case, but just their sort of like gleeful like target window is like, is girlfriends building? We blew it up. Great. Excellent stuff. The emojis are what does it for me. Fist bump, fire, the, all that stuff. It's so celebratory of the thing that you're supposed to think is bad. Yeah. Like a so celebratory of the thing that you're supposed to think is bad. Yeah. Like a regrettable part of society. Right. It's like, Oh my God, I know. And like even the,

I've seen people point out the Vance part of it where he's like, this is a bad idea. But if you read the actual text that Vance sends, it's a bad idea to him because of the optics. He said, people aren't going to like it. They're not going to understand the decision, but it's necessary. He literally decision, but it's necessary. He literally says, but it's necessary. So I don't think JD Vance is actually an anti-war person. I think he's just worried that people who voted for them

are going to see them as pro-war by these actions. He was worried about the reaction to it, not about the action of it. About the reaction of the attack? He's worried about the action of it. About the reaction of the attack? He's worried about the reaction of his contingency to the attack as opposed to the action of the attack. Since when did Americans give a shit about blowing up Yemen? Since they pretended that they're anti-war.

They didn't. The scandal is that the messages are out. No one cares that 53 people were blown up in this attack. Which is another point we wanted to make here today, which is a wild element of this story, is that there's zero conversation about the fact that a lot of innocent people lost their lives. All of this was in pursuit of one target, and they blew up an entire building, and civilians were there.

It's just wild. Again, the anti-war president, which is it, we say that facetiously because we've all known for this whole time that he's not one. And that's the point. And like, yeah, you're right, Cody, the optics he carried about,

he also didn't want to bail out Europe and help them. Oh yeah, he also hates Europe, obviously. Another reasoning that I think is very fun that they've given is that this actually showed great teamwork, strong leadership and collaboration. People are spinning it that way. All the boys in the group chat, everyone, everyone, someone makes a typo. You're like, Yaman, everyone does Yaman, Yaman, Yaman.

They changed the name of the group chat to Yaman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This motherfucker said Yaman. Yeah, exactly. Was the this motherfucker said Yaman, yeah exactly. Was the grink there and so on? I think everyone's made the grink joke at this point. Everyone should. I don't want to gloss over it, we've mentioned this obliquely, but Signal is not the spot to be having these conversations, obviously. Especially not on a personal phone, because

I don't even think, can Signal even go on a government phone? So many people in that chat too. There was so many people. So many people. So many people. Seems unnecessary. Seems like maybe you need to keep some people like. Also, don't all of these people have much easier, they have skiffs, right?

It's a secure room where they can all go and like talk about this stuff. And it seems like one, they're busy doing other stuff and they don't really wanna do that. And two, they wanna get around the Presidential Records Act and they don't want what they were saying to get out for some reason. So this is the important thing.

This is a very important point that's also not getting that much attention in this conversation. The Project 2025 of it all in which they specifically outline taking conversations into spaces like Signal specifically to avoid Presidential Records Act. So is this just a fluke or is this a specific shift? And the thing is you can't tell because nothing about it looks particularly organized.

Yeah. And these don't seem like they were, it doesn't seem like they were like, let's go and do this. Though they could, who fucking knows? Because looking at it, it's just the fellas in the group chat, instead of being like dopey about like sports, they're fucking talking about blowing people up. It's genuinely horrible. It's very weird. It's like stomach- It's unsettling, yes, exactly.

And just, and I think that what's unsettling about it is, I'm sure that this is not the first time this has happened with any administration, or that there's not been a group of guys hooting and hollering about blowing up people in another country, but seeing it and seeing like, I know like I was kind of laughing at the emojis, but it's fucking gross.

Yeah, it is. Like you don't, like you don't want to deal with the fist bump shit when you just blew up a house. Uh, yeah, it's very um, I mean, it's not cosplaying because they're actually doing it, but it has that vibe of like, yeah, we're finally like, dude, we're like in the club and we're doing the bombings now. It's why like Hegseth was the guy. Like he looks like he would be like the fucking slick hair and like it's this vibe of, it's very Starship Troopers coded really. Oh they were by comparison quite reserved. Yeah, yeah.

Did you see the photo in the post of JD Vance spreading his freedom seed? I did see him spreading his freedom seed. Fucking, what the fuck man? Freedom seed? Because they're such anti-war. They're the anti-war administration. It's so absurd. Why was he in full military gear?

What was he doing? Does he do that every time he goes to the range? Sending some freedom seeds down range is the grossest thing I've ever read. As he sends his cum down the range. Freedom seeds is insane. It's like absurd. What an absurd, disgusting like. Is that what people say who are into guns?

No one has ever said that. No. That is a brand new thing. No one's ever said that. No. Doesn't get more American kids than that. I have firearms that I shoot down the range and only down the range. No dreams of any kind of home defense.

And if I ever heard someone say, freedom seed around me, I would contact the range safety officer and be like, I think this person has a concussion and they are not safe anymore. I know we're not big on gun safety in this country, but they just said freedom seeds. Oh God. Well, cause it's also, so there's something about it that is like, it is gross and weird and hilarious.

Yeah. It's gross in this other way. We're like, we're spreading our freedom seeds. No, they're bullets. They're for killing people. Like it's just like peacekeepers. No, they're police. They're like this rephrasing to make this

like a softened, desirable, like peaceful thing spreading freedom. It's this really gross propaganda that is misguided because it's freedom seeds, disgusting. Why was he in his fucking fati- Oh, I have an answer for that. Because of the memes. The memes of him, I think,

made him feel a little emasculated and a little bad about himself. And so he's been doing this sort of tour of like, I'm gonna wear fatigues, I'm gonna wear my army shit, I'm gonna do gun stuff to prove that I'm not the memes. So you look like you're cosplaying as a Dami man? Yeah. A great way to-

Everyone's cosplaying in this. You got that Kristy Gnome is out there cosplaying. Ugh. That video was so horrifying. Cosplaying is the worst person on earth. All these freaks love cosplaying as Nazis, yes. Oh, I don't, oh, that was so, I saw that, it's, it's quite, quite hard to like turn my stomach in that video really. And then people responding being

happy about it's like, even if you believe these are the most wretched criminals of all time, the worst people alive, above due process, there is a certain level of societal treatment that you should give all prisoners, and it doesn't mean you have to like them or approve anything they do. It's like basic human rights. And again, even if you don't like it, take it up with the constitution. Pass a constitutional amendment that says, we don't need due process. We'll just get rid of these people and treat them however we want. Sorry, like we've got rules. The relishing in it all is really, really disgusting

in all these aspects, like the deportations, these bombings, everything is just like, and you love it. You love this shit. And it's so repulsive. I wanna highlight something that I don't think has gotten as much attention in this. I don't know that Donald Trump 100% approved this strike, which is- I don't either. I don't know who talks anywhere.

I don't know if anyone talks. And I'm not sure it doesn't comfort me that like like, oh well, Donald Trump's in charge, but there's a discussion in this chat between Pete Hegseth and Stephen Miller chimes in and they're like, not debating, but they're a little bit like, we've got to go on this, right? This is 100% go, we're doing it in two hours. Because Stephen Miller starts his message with, as I heard it, the president was clear, green light, and we soon make it clear to Egypt and Europe what we expect in return. But Pete Hegseth was like, POTUS still retains 24 hours of decision space.

So Stephen Miller also shouldn't be knowing about, like there's no reason for Stephen Miller specifically to know any of this stuff, it doesn't seem. I am a little concerned. What is his official job? He's in charge of the most fascist stuff. Yeah, he's like a top advisor. But like I thought that's like a top advisor. But like- I thought that's what his title was.

As awful as Trump is, and like I'm not saying anything good about Trump here, I don't want Stephen Miller to be ordering military strikes at all in any capacity. I believe that Trump actually has more regard for human life than Stephen Miller does. Oh, high bar. Stephen Miller's the deputy chief of Stephen Miller does. Oh, high bar. Stephen Miller's the deputy chief of staff. Yeah. Oh, there we go. Why is the deputy chief of staff... I'm so tired.

Yeah, it's really, really... That's the thing, like, there's this... I'm with three years into this admin now. Oh my god, I know. It feels just like... You'd spit two months. It feels like ten. Just like all these... Because there's this larger story of the like adding the journalist and even questions of that of like, why do you have this? You like all these like, oh, if it was an Al Jazeera like a journalist, I saw Jesse Waters say that.

It's like if it was Al Jazeera, maybe it's a problem, but not this scumbag. Who cares? Like, wait, if he's a scumbag, isn't that a problem too? They're saying he's like a hoaxer and a scumbag and a terrible guy. It's like, but then why do you have his number? What are you doing? And so there's all these questions of the leak of it. But then like we're talking about the content of it too, and like their relationships and how they're communicating this stuff.

There's so much to it. And I just wonder if it does wonder if it matters at all. Like this does seem like there's actual like almost bipartisan, like, well, that's bad actually. But it doesn't, I just don't know if it's going to break through. Yeah, like the Senate committee, the bipartisan Senate committee is calling for an investigation, which means we've got to go through an investigation when the entire thing is laid out. Well, thankfully those always deal with this specific admin so well. They generally end up with stuff happening.

It isn't just like months of meandering and then nothing. Thank goodness. I do feel like maybe Mike Waltz will, if this keeps going, we'll have to take the fall for it. Like if it just isn't going away. He added it. It says so right there. I feel like Mike Waltz might be the one that they...

Yeah, well, because he said also the day before, he was like, we don't know what happened. We don't know who added them. We don't know this, blah, blah, blah. You see it. It's clear as day what happened. So why did you need so much time to investigate? He did it and then he lied to. Exactly. But one would hope that that's the ultimate outcome,

that there is some sort of resolution to that effect. I honestly don't know how this is breaking through to the average Trump voter. I haven't spoken to anybody about it. It's a messy story. It's hard to explain why it's a problem. Like it's one of those things, it's one of those stories where you have to declaratively

push for a resignation. You don't back off until you get one. And again, thankfully the Democrats generally extremely declarative with their action, organized, clearly spoken on the issues that matter. Yeah, thankfully. They've got their messaging locked in. They're aligned on everything.

Yeah, so at least I trust that they're on it. Yeah. Speaking of Democrats, sorry. Trump said yesterday that these strikes should have happened under Biden. Biden should have done this. He did. It didn't work.

It's not, it seems like it may be a failing strategy for this scenario. The blockade stopped briefly during the ceasefire. That's how to get it to stop is a ceasefire, it seems. But that ceasefire, I read that the ceasefire broke down mysteriously, nobody knows how it broke down, but that ceasefire disappeared and thus- The one that was announced victoriously like four days after Trump got into the office and then slowly sort of dissipated? Yeah.

I mean someone, I mean I know ceasefires break, someone has to break the ceasefire, but in this instance it seems to have just evaporated into thin air. Huh, interesting know ceasefires break. Someone has to break the ceasefire. But in this instance, it seems to have just evaporated. OK. Interesting. No further questions. Well, things do evaporate. That's basic science. I think we need to take a quick break,

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And boy, do we have some, Jonathan, what's going on in the world of executive orders that are always great and legal and the president definitely understands executive orders? Yeah. He signs a bunch every week, but one that he signed this week is especially one of them. He signs an executive order that seeks to require proof of American citizenship when you register to vote, that mail-in ballots have to be received by election day instead of just postmarked by then.

Federal agencies, including DOGE, will get access to check state rolls for consistency with federal requirements. Sounds bad, bad, bad. That states can lose federal funding if they disobey these orders. Real quick, states control their own elections. He doesn't really have the authority to just do any of this. So there will be lawsuits real quick and we'll see if the Supreme Court decides that that is what, that the reality is what is the reality or if it's something they made up.

How do you even fucking confirm citizenship? They want to see your passport or a birth certificate that matches your current name, which there has been some concern about if you are a married woman who has changed her name that it might not apply to you. There are a lot of scenarios where it would be a problem. Right. No, I was actually asking because I did not know. This is not apply to you. There are a lot of scenarios where it would, yeah. Right, yeah, no, I was actually asking because I did not know. Like, this is not a lead up, this is ignorance.

Are they gonna like, put in place some sort of system to ensure that everybody has easy access to that kind of documentation to prove it? Yeah, that's the other part of it. Because voting is a right. And if you're putting any sort of obstacle in front of that right, then you need to ensure that everybody has the ability to get past that obstacle as well in order to make it a right that everybody gets.

No. So I'm sure they have. No, they don't. No, they they they're No, they've sent me- They're not gonna help people vote? They've been adding people, right? To staffs of parts of the government? Not the opposite, right? Not the opposite, no. Oh, fuck.

Sorry, Ed, I think you're mixing things up. Oh, they've been removing many people. What? From everywhere. It's like- My bow tie's spinning. I know, I'm so sorry. Fucking hell.

But at least they're good at it. Like they're doing it effectively. They're laying off the right people. Exactly. They're being very specific about it. It's never someone they need to rehire. No, no, no, no, no. Rehire?

Why would you ever need to rehire somebody? It feels like every day there's a story where it's like, we're shutting down a government facility that costs $500 every 10 years and their only job is to protect the World Tree that keeps the earth spinning. And Elon Musk goes on television, the addressal is actually incredibly cringe, and we don't need the world to spin. And it's just, every fucking day there's some new shit. They're getting rid of our seeds, I read.

Our freedom seeds? Yep, no that's a real- that is actually- I was joking about the world tree, but the seeds thing is real. But literally the seeds, yeah. It's uh, what the hell? Why? Well because it costs money. It costs money or he wants them.

It's seeds! I thought we love seeds, we love freedom seeds. We love our freedom seeds, but not the living seeds. We don't like our life seeds. It costs money, which Elon confirmed a few weeks ago, the government can just create. Yep. And it's not a problem to pay for the seeds. They have magic money computers.

Everything's computer now, you can just make money. But the seeds cost too much money. This whole executive order, it's another thing of playing into a lie, essentially, which is that illegal citizens are voting, you know, in which they are non citizens are not voting. It's an attack on everything that people have been doing to try to expand voting rights and access to make it easier so that

more people show up even as is, we have a shocking amount of people in this country that don't vote for a variety of reasons. But no, instead of making it easier, we're making it significantly harder. Especially this, it needs to be can't even be postmarked. Your ballots can't be postmarked on election day. It has to be in. It's already so confusing the way one states do it. This state varies wildly from this state. But again, it was states' rights. I thought that that was their thing, that states get to decide how they wanna manage things.

Only for slavery. It's gonna be difficult to show natural, a lot of times they do show naturalized citizens as non-citizens in databases. There's a... The Brennan Center did a study like 3.8 million people don't have birth certificate or passport just because it's like lost or like been destroyed. They don't have access to it. Yeah, I don't know where my birth certificate is.

Something like 21 million don't have access to it because like it's somebody else's house, safe deposit box, not like an immediate thing. But like, yeah, millions of people just don't have it. And if they're not considering how to ensure that everybody has easy access to it, then you're only stopping people from voting. That's the intention. Which is the intention, exactly. Same thing with like, well, you got to make sure you have a passport or we'll deport you.

But aren't there a lot of old people that vote for the Republicans? The traditional thing Noah and stuff have. Do you think that they're relying on old people? I guess there are some old people that love having documents, but do they not think this won't affect red states? It doesn't seem like they care about anything affecting old people. They're already going after social security, like all these sort of stuff.

Yeah, it's such a culture war thing. And young people seem, well, ebbs and flows really, really frequently now, actually their opinion of Trump, but I think they just don't care, honestly. Like they're not thinking about these things. They just wanna, they wanna do all their stuff, yeah. But it's just, at some point I'm like, all this stuff,

is there really, are there really that many people that really are enjoying this? Like, they're seeing this and they're like, yeah, those people look miserable, they're in an inhumane jail, oh, it's now more difficult to vote, oh good. The hope is that fewer and fewer people, as it happens more and more, realize like,

oh wait, half the stuff they said was a lie, and the other half they were serious about, and both of those things. I think for real, the social security stuff is gonna be what gets them in trouble. I did too. The memars out there pretty much have three conversation subjects, social security checks,

going to the doctor or planning to go to the doctor. And you're not allowed to do any of that here. Can't do any of that. Grandchildren's birthday parties, but yeah. Yeah, like, or like who is divorced. And I mean, that is a big red state thing, but it just feels like they will touch a third rail at some point and they're close.

The social security. I mean, I do agree with you. There's so many stoves in front of them. I don't, just a reminder to all of us that feels like it's been years, it's been a couple months, and I think some of this will take time. I think you're right, social security is.

I think seeing images of people being detained, disgusting conditions, all of it, but it's curious what actually breaks through. We're all pretty in line and dialed in. Where are you getting your news? Most people are going about their day-to-day lives, but I think it's starting to seep in. It's just been, what, eight weeks.

Yeah, it's hard to tell. It really doesn't feel that way. But in terms of this, I do just, I do ultimately think this one isn't on its face something that's going to turn off a Trump voter because they've been sold a lie that millions of illegal citizens have been voting. And so they think that this is designed to target the problem that actually doesn't exist and don't realize that actually this is going to affect me when I'm trying to register and wait, I don't have my birth certificate.

I truly think something happens before voting. I think that they're going, they're gonna fuck up social security in a way that turns the old people in even more insane. Oh yeah, they've only had two months. They got a lot more before election time again to fuck up. And cause like a lot of these things also, it's dependent on what the media focuses on, they're talking about signal all week.

That's effective for some people. Some people don't care. And it's a messy story. We get to and get the disappearances in a minute, things like that. And this voting stuff. These are all things also that there's like these different categories of bad shit that people are realizing. Right. All these firings, all these like different programs that they don't realize maybe five months ago. Like, oh, right. That existed because of the government or this grant or this or whatever. Like, they don't realize all the connectedness going on.

So they're like, wait, I lost my job, too. Right. And then there are also these other things, like with the voting and with maybe like, the mass deportations now is something, as we've talked about, people don't realize like the implications of that. And as you start doing it, like, oh, well, we don't actually have room for these people.

So either we have to build a bunch of more private prisons, which eventually people will be like, wait, this is actually bad. Or they have to just send everybody out of here without due process. And that's like, oh wait, oh right. If it's too many people, you do this bad thing or you do this bad thing.

It's just not a feasible project. And so it takes a long time for people to realize like, oh wait, you're gonna just send people who are like completely innocent out of the country because of this plan that I didn't think far enough ahead about and maybe you didn't either Right exactly like maybe they like maybe nobody really thought one thought Even a little bit right and so it's this thing that like you need a few months to see it play out to be like Oh, right. what a fucking bad idea.

As opposed to something like social security where if they go after it, immediately it's like, wait, what? No. But they're already getting that there was a Washington Post story about it. Oh, they're getting closer. I mean, you already have Elon talking about

how it's a Ponzi scheme to Rogan and all these, the messaging is very clear. It scares me. This one, there's lots of things that scare me, but my parents are older, they're in good health, but we live in a rural area and no, you need to be able to have access to somebody on the fucking phone. You can't just shut it all down, you motherfuckers. Yeah, I know.

It's the same thing with USPS. It's like when you start pulling back these things that you think are, oh, it's a fringe thing. Oh, it's the, it's just that we can just save money. Also, where the fuck is that money going? I hear all this shit about saving money. Is it going somewhere? Oh yeah. Yeah, you look at the doge clock and you're like, what are you doing with that?

No, but even then it's like, what is the money doing? Like, it's not like it, like they've kind of occasionally joked about a stimulus, but they're not going to do that. Oh, there's no way that's happening, obviously. But it's like, I feel like that is the natural endpoint here. It's like, at some point, someone has to ask, okay, even though it's questionable how much you've saved, does that change anything materially for anyone? Does this mean does someone get paid more? And I know the kind of vacuous feels like, oh, just go to the rich.

But like a little more specific there. Like how? Like is your- Your taxes aren't gonna go down. Details please. Like because of- One detail. But they've stopped so much fraud

with all those fraud charges we're seeing in the news every day. But again, even if they had, which they haven't, where is the money going? What is the net benefit of saving this money? Where is it? Is the thing, are we getting more stuck? Like, are we going to get like a cyber truck?

Does everyone get a cyber truck? Everyone gets a cyber truck that can't be insured. I saw one outside my apartment the other day. It said go to the moon and it was spray painted on it. And it's just like, I don't even know how even some deranged Elon fan looks at this fucking thing and doesn't feel shame. It's an ugly vehicle. I mean, if you spray paint it, then that kind of masks it, right?

Spray paint or not, you could make it any colour in the world. It still looks like it's from the video game Flashback, or PC game. It's a nightmare. It is an actual nightmare car. And it's deeply embarrassing for whomever is driving it and making it, it makes fart sounds if you press a button. Well, that's bass, Katie. That's bass.

Great. Before we move on to talking about AI things with our guest, we would be remiss if we did not mention some more of the disappearances that have happened since last we spoke, because it is truly chilling. The most recent one is very chilling. There's a video of it. Her name is Ramesa Ozturk. She's a PhD student at Tufts University. She's on a student visa. She co-wrote

a pro-Palestinian op-ed. The op-ed just says, I would like this school to divest from Israel stuff. We don't want our tuition money to go to genocide. And there's a video. It's very scary. It's a bunch of masked thugs basically approach her on the street and take her away. And Marco Rubio gave a little speech today and he said her student visa has been terminated. She's now not legally in the US. Oh, we revoked her visa. It's an F1 visa, I believe. We revoked it and here's why.

And I'll say it again. I said it everywhere. Let me be abundantly clear. If you go apply for a visa right now, anywhere in the world, let me just send this message out. If you apply for a visa to enter the United States and be a student, and you tell us that the reason why you're coming to the United States is not just because you want to write op-eds, but because you want to participate in movements that are involved in doing things like vandalizing universities, harassing students, taking over

buildings, creating a ruckus, we're not going to give you a visa. If you lie to us and get a visa and then enter the United States and with that visa participate in that sort of activity, we're going to take away your visa. And once you've lost your visa, you're no longer legally in the United States. And we have a right, like every country in the world has a right to remove you from our country. They think she was sent to the same facility in Louisiana that Mahmoud Khalil was sent. What's going on in Louisiana? There's a big private prison there.

They want to make money, so they send the disappeared people there. What are they going to do if it's full? She is illegal, I guess was illegal resident because they took away her visa because they could do that. They did it because she wrote an her visa because they could do that. They did it because she wrote an op-ed they didn't like. It doesn't even say Hamas. It doesn't say Hamas is good. It doesn't say death to Israel.

It doesn't say any of that. It says- It's a very tame op-ed. Yeah. So, just fascist thugs disappearing people on camera in the United States. There's other people. There's a woman named Yonso Chung. She is 21 years old.

She's a legal permanent resident. Her family moved here with her when she was seven. She's now a student at Columbia who participated in some pro-Palestinian demonstrations. ICE wants to track her down and deport her. She apparently is still at home, okay? A federal judge said the Trump administration has to stop seeking to deport her. This is going to keep happening and hopefully the legal system for the moment keeps them from being deported, keeps them in this country, but they're living a nightmare right now. Ramesa Ozturk was going to break her Ramadan fast with friends and never showed up and

it was taken away. What is there to say? No one knows where you are. It's just- And they'll also be able to expand like the reasons that they are giving as it happens more and more and is normalized more and more. Obviously, on

the worst website in the world, you see so many people being like, yeah, this is great. Like this is what this is what we voted for. And the more you do it, the more justifications you can give for it and that it happens more

and more. We would be remiss if we didn't mention that, you know, it was a bipartisan effort to conflate anti-Israel sentiment with anti-Semitism. Absolutely. And they are now using that as a weapon to disappear people for wrong speech. The Democrat statements that are saying, you shouldn't do this, are saying, well, I disagree wholeheartedly with the content of the op-ed. Thanks, Chuck Schumer. You gotta...

It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yeah. As if, even if it did say the things they're acting like it says, you don't disappear people and deport them for that. Yeah. And like two months in, again, like it's like they've. I don't quite know what to say except to keep saying

that this is happening and mentioning it and keeping this because it is, we haven't even mentioned, there's so many, there's just so many stories of people here legally or traveling, being detained, like we've mentioned before, pouring through your social media, not even in relation to campuses. Let's do a hard pivot. God, yeah, from terror to farce, I guess.

The AI bubble. This is gonna come out either the day of or just after the IPO of this company called CoreWeave. Now, real simple stuff. CoreWeave is a company that sells AI computers, so when you run a model or you train a model, you pay CoreWeave for the GPU access they're about. Quarter of a billion GPUs, Nvidia's an investor and also a customer. Very fucking weird. Anyway, CoreWeave, I've been saying this a lot, they have the vibe of a sickly dog that's eaten a live grenade because they're fucking... This company

made, I think, 1.9 billion revenue last year, lost 863 million. They had $6 billion, sorry, lost $863 million. They had $6 billion of expenses. By 2026, they're going to have $7.6 billion of loan payments. This is the first IPO of the AI bubble. And you have people on CNBC being like, yeah, this sucks. This stinks. This stinky boy. And what's really funny about it is you've got, I wrote about this company about 20 days ago because they

published their S1, which is the document you file when you go public and you read it and it's like a dog's dinner. It's so bad. They have like $12 billion of loans. They have about $6.3 billion of liquidity, but they have so many more expenses. Their biggest customer is going to be OpenAI by October 2025. Another thing happening in October 2025 is they have to start paying off a giant loan. So the revenue coming in from OpenAI will then be swallowed whole by the loan. On top of all of this, this is the company selling the fuel for the AI boom. Like surely this one should be doing well, right? If putting aside everything, you've got Nvidia selling the chips, so the next step

down should be making a shit ton of money not losing 15 billion fucking dollars. Sorry, someone will say, oh, it's not, it's 15 billion dollars of capex. They still have to fucking spend it. And I have been arguing with people for several weeks about this because mostly people on Twitter being mad and they don't bother with that shit. But a few people saying, well, they'll work it out. It's always the work it out. They'll work it out.

It's such a good thing. They'll fucking work it out. Now OpenAI, it gets better, it gets so much better because OpenAI is currently raising a 40 billion dollar round from Softbank, who you may remember from WeWork and the other great investments they've made. So 40 billion dollars coming from Softbank and the syndicate of investors. Except it's not really 40 billion billion, it's $10 billion. Because SoftBank has to borrow $16 billion to give them the $40 billion. You may think that the math doesn't make sense. It doesn't make any sense. It's insane. And on top of all of this, I've been talking

to people in the tech media for over a year about this and they're like, yeah, OpenAI will work it out. Except every story about OpenAI is, yeah, they're going to lose $13 billion. They're the most popular company in this industry and they will lose 13 billion. But don't worry, they'll be profitable by 2030. Because they're going to jack up the price of the sludge? Even if... Like how? Yeah, there's no cost to profitability.

Yeah, you just change the dial and the sludge. There's more sludge, right? But the great thing about it is you're seeing with CoreWeave, the reason CoreWeave's so bad is because this should be the first downstream win. Like, really, it's just Nvidia chips, where do you put them? A data center. So the money should come out big time, right? It looks like there's no money. Yeah, AI is everywhere. It's all there is now. But it isn't though. That's the real secret. There's not actually that much users.

I think it's OpenAI says they have 400 million weekly active users, which is a really fucking peculiar metric for this. Because a company like theirs, which makes money predominantly from software subscriptions, should be doing monthly. They're probably not doing that because their conversion rate's dogshit. I'm getting very technical. Very basic here is, CoreWeave kind of shows that literally everyone other than Nvidia burns money on this. No one makes any money.

It's not profitable. I did a story a few weeks ago as well that I looked into the monthly active users of all the products. Terrible. Like Gemini has like, I think like 18 million monthly active users on mobile, which is nothing. That's like, there are free to play mobile games that install spyware on your phone that are more successful which is nothing. They're all free to play mobile games that install spyware on your phone that are more successful, definitely financially. Do those active users include the ones who are forced to use it, just when you do a Google

search? Yes. Okay. Because that's Gemini. Well, Gemini is weird. They only just put Gemini in the thing. In like Gmail and you could use it. And it's, the pop-up comes up. Okay. Is that like the thing on the Zoom when it says,

do you want to write a thank you note? Oh, and I want to meet the perverts who see that and they're like, oh yes. Yes. Oh, let me, let me do that. I need an email summarized because I'm too stupid to read. It's just, but the big thing is, is that I think CoreWeave is the big mask off. I think CoreWeave is going to show that even if it somehow does well and it does not look like it's going to, it's still going to show the root economics here are fucked.

But everyone's saying, and someone said to me the other day that it's generally all the penguins honk in the same way. That's how we got here with AI. The penguins all went honk honk. AI is the big thing. So everyone started with AI. The penguins all went Hong Kong. AI is the big thing. So everyone started saying AI. Just as quickly, they will go, I don't know about this.

I don't know about this. Other than Jim Cramer from CNBC, Jim's Cramer is real high on core wave. It's so funny watching Jim Cramer, who if for any listeners who don't know, Jim Cramer is one of the wrongest men to live with. Oh, fun. You do the opposite of his things

and you do well in the market. Yeah, pretty much. He was on CNBC and even by, like, he was going like, I think it's gonna be, and the guy's like, no, no Jim. No Jim. Why does he still have a job if he's always wrong? I fucking love it.

Just for fun. I want his job so badly. He's like Stephen A. Smith, he's like, exciting on TV now. No, no, no Smith is correct sometimes. At least he's correct. This would be like if every so often, Stephen A. Smith was just like, yeah, I think the Los Angeles Angels are going to win the World Series, and everyone was just like, yep, sounds great.

I 100% believe that. Sure thing, bud. Thanks for your insight. The Cleveland Browns are going to win the Super Bowl this year. And everyone's just like, fuck yeah, great. Sounds great, Stephen. This is very interesting.

I didn't realize how low those users are. It's insane. To put it described like, because you're right, you would want a monthly subscription. That suggests to me those are people that try it every so often for a thing, like as opposed, but it's not being integrated into their life in a way that's meaningful. Because it doesn't do anything that's worth integrating.

It doesn't. It's like anything I could think to ask it to do, I'm going to have to do for myself anyway. You know, you can write me that thank you note, but I'm going to change it. Every option I see is like, but I should do that. I don't want my brain to atrophy. Like, I don't want to like not do these. Like, I don't know. It's just like. Even then, it's it's not a business

These aren't businesses every time someone uses chat GPT It loses the money GPUs are extremely like that This whole thing is so inefficient and what really pisses me off and a number of these things do is that? For a year and a half I've been saying this and a gradually declining amount of people are going, you're crazy, AI is the biggest thing ever and now people are like maybe AI might not be. Even though it's doing the same shit it did a year and a half ago, it still doesn't really do much that's... And I'm a like a, I love my gadgets and my gizmos,

I really do. If this shit was going to do something, I would know because I've looked. I don't hate, I don't take inexact words. I fucking, I use the shit. It doesn't, it doesn't even do the thing that they advertise and they say, oh, business use case. Oh, it automate, no it doesn't, it doesn't automate shit. I do tons of spreadsheets. I'd love it if my spreadsheet, no, what it does is it pops up and gets in the way of

me trying to like edit a word on Google Docs. Right. And it's just- It makes it less efficient. Yes. Can I ask about the Miyazaki images we've been seeing this week? OpenAI launched a new image generator and so everyone's making these Miyazaki style images of like, do the office, but in this style. And it's like people, you're either one of these AI guys

who's acting like it's mind blowing or you're like Miyazaki would hate this and I hate this. And like. It's just like, it's just like seeing it. It's just like this weird, like gnarled buzzfeed shit. Yeah. I've seen these threads and it's like this shot from Severance as puppets, this same shot as the Simpsons,

this same shot, it's just like different type of animations and it becomes this like, what else could we do? Just that? Like it's just, it's, there's something upsetting about it that I can't even articulate. Seeing all these like, it's such sameness that it's empty. The reason it's so upsetting is it's what happens when people who are not creative create. It is people without ideas ideating.

It is what happens when you're brainless and incurious, when you would get astounded by jingling keys. When you're like, wow, what if the office was, who gives a shit, you fucking idiot? Go and go outside. I'm gonna take the host to you. And then you see like these, it's like, oh, I did this, it's the office as Studio Ghibli. I did that same image as Studio Ghibli.

And it's like, okay, it's slightly different and it kind of looks the same. It's just like, what are you getting out of seeing these things? Nothing. It's nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's just like, what are you getting out of seeing these things? Right. Nothing. It's nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's not going to make your son call you? I did want to... Well, Ed, if you did him? In the style of student.

In the style of student. Yeah, I'm just sending him an image that says, yes, it's a rude son apologizing to a nice father. It might get him to say, fuck off, dad. Don't call me again. I actually wanted to talk about this one particular example, if that's okay. Oh God. No, no, please. I love pain.

It's really funny to me because it's not just like, what's the point of this? This is empty. This is such this is hollow garbage slop. But also it's bad. If an artist did it, it would be good. So I'm going to put in the chat this example of this. It is Studio Ghibli doing three different memes. And it's the we can describe them as well. It's the meme of like a guy like talking to somebody aggressively

in these three different scenarios. You see all the memes who put them on screen. And the first two are what AI guys look at. This is how women look at them. Yes. Yes, exactly. And if you look at, so like, for example, the original of the guy at, I guess, an Astro's game talking to this woman, and he's's going like this and he's got his hand

on the back of her neck grabbing the back of her neck. Famously the hand is on the back of the neck that's what makes the meme because it looks like he has her prisoner and she's trapped she is trapped and he's got her by the neck but the Ghibli't have, it's like his hand is like on her back, like gingerly. And hand is- That's the point. And hand, obviously the hand is- They're like little hot dogs. They're having trouble.

Classic, classic three fingers in a nub situation. Exactly. But it's also not, like it's nothing. It takes away the point of the meme. It takes away the thing that makes the meme the meme which is that he has her prisoner But like by the back of the neck similarly the next one is a man The original is a man with very little expression He's just got like his hand like this talking to her and the woman is like she knows it's a silly situation

She's like kind of got her eyes wide. She's kind of smiling in the Ghibli version. She looks scared and terrified and upset and the man is yelling at her angrily that again, in the original as well, the woman looks kind of scared, but like not like she's upset. It's kind of like she's looking at her friends. Exactly. It's like there's a personality there that is completely washed away. It's missing. It does a bad job.

Can I tell you my favorite one? My favorite, I'm gonna put it in the chat right now. So the person posting this is Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI. Sam, what are you doing? He used the, he actually used the chat GPT thing to put a photo into this, into chat GPT thing to put a photo into this. Into chat GPT.

A photo of him and his, his, some other people. And it's in the Ghibli style. And he's, the guy is doing what some people are saying is the white power thing, it's the okay gesture. I don't think it's that. These people. But anyway, this is the CEO of OpenAI. A company ostensibly worth $300 billion, if this funding round closes.

He could pick any image to demonstrate the power of this. And what he did was white power of this. Yeah, the world putting aside, let's say it's not the white power. No, no, we're not. How many fingers do you generally have on a hand? Four is what I'm counting. Because it ain't this many. This is a classic three finger thumb hand.

This motherfucker could have picked anything. He could have picked any image in the world, and he picked the one with the three finger hand, the guy who has too many fingers, and the weird kind of floating blind that doesn't reach the top of the window. That probably like made the entire zoo into a firmus to make that happen. He's been desensitized, maybe he just doesn't notice, which is scary. I was gonna say like maybe he just doesn't see it. But like there is something where you're getting so used

to AI images being around that your eyes kind of glaze over these ears. That's what I think that's actually probably. But that's its own terrifying reality for us all. But the thing is they have a they have a really expensive PR Firm they have tons of stuff No one was like a Sam real quick You're demonstrating the image generator, and there's only there's only

Sammy Sammy Sammy Sammy take it out Sam Sam run it through again. So they add a finger like ungrateful after he grinds for a decade trying to help make super intelligence to cure cancer or whatever I'm like a solid month or two. I've been just responding to everything. He said just saying washed I know when this shits gonna but I know the shit will burst and I want history to show that someone was lightly mocking him like like burst and I want history to show that someone was lightly mocking him. Like, like an aging basketball player. Just lightly. Just an aging basketball player. You know. You know he looks. Oh, you're going to be on the right side of history.

They all look. He must, yeah. He looks. I hope they do, but I don't like to get ahead of myself and be like, oh, they're watching me. I don't fucking know. But I do know that they will look eventually. And when they do, they will be slightly annoyed, which is all I want. You know, but I do know that they will look eventually and when they do, they will be slightly annoyed, which is all I want. You know what?

I love that. That's a nice goal. You're not being an asshole. Slightly annoying. It's also much harder to be upset at someone lightly making fun of you in a completely not in a way that they make fun of like aging sports players. And also being right about this will be really funny because, I mean, on so many levels. It will also be very annoying. And when the bubble bursts,

I am going back, I'm going to look at all of the people at the Times, for example, who pretended like this wasn't, this wasn't going to happen because it may start recording this the 27th of March, the 28th of March may be like a really big day it may not like these capitalism has a way of adapting but at the same time the vibes are bad and if call we've shits our bed if they shit the bed it breaks the narrative here CNBC was saying it like they and if that happens I don't know like it could it would be bad for everyone involved. And how will I get my family guyized photos?

I want to look at my own. I don't know, Cody. You're just gonna have to figure out how to draw it yourself. To your point, Ed. I'm gonna get Garfield with giant knockers. Tough to be like, it's tough. It's like both, there's a satisfaction

and a huge depression to being right. Especially when it comes at the cost of people's livelihoods, chaos for all of us. It's not satisfying to be like this thing I'm trying to warn you of happening. I've been saying this for months as well. What I am talking about is not, there's this guy, Casey Newton at Platformer,

who wrote this thing about the phony benefits or phony comforts of AI skepticism I hate it for many reasons other than the fact he's fucking wrong than a deep shit and like his boyfriend works in an anthropic It's a fucking insane. Anyway, putting aside my many grievances There's nothing comfortable about this It's like what I am talking about is like tens of thousands of people losing their jobs meaningful cuts to the stock market When this shit falls apart, it's going to be, it's not like a great financial crisis levels systemic risk, but it's not, it's not like the NFT stuff. It's not, it would got like, yeah, this is an economic and philosophical commitment from

the markets in a way that I'm not sure people realize you got Bob by go from fucking Disney talked about AI will change everything. It's a great mask off moment. It's a moment when everyone is going to go, wow, all of these people with all of this money and power don't know a fucking thing. I'm serious. That is a societally destructive idea. It will be a confirmation for so many people.

And I said like last year sometime that one of the bigger political issues that people aren't talking about is the war between managers and real people. And I don't think that people realize how big that's going to be because we had it with remote work. We've had it with AI. The people telling you to use AI don't do real work. They're people that like fucked around with it once and go, yep, that replaced everything. I don't give a shit. Look, it can do Studio Ghibli now. And we're gonna see how many people have been saying this who just clearly never had the fucking idea and the most important thing to enact change is to never ever ever ever ever let them hear the end of it. The last time they fucked up like this was like Metaverse and NFT, minuscule compared to this. The important thing to do is talk about these scumbags.

Talk about fucking sundopeshive Google or sachinadella of Microsoft Tim Cook Apple intelligence is one of the worst things I've ever used in my life It's just a shit experience everyone fucking hates these people have crammed this shit down our throats Managers out there telling us to use AI it will do it faster how motherfucker and the answer is it doesn't because it doesn't Do the shit that they claim. It's a giant fucking lie. And I want people to look at this and look at who's responsible and say, like, no, I will not accept this shit. And I want, like, every CEO that was trumpeting AI while obviously fucking lying

must be talked about. They must be mocked. Mock them. They must be called idiots. Yeah, they shouldn't be able to do it another time with some other bullshit. Right. Well. Yeah. And I actually have hope though, because I believe consumers are waking up to how bad the tech industry's got. I really believe that there is going to be a reckoning with tech, and they fucking deserve it. Big tech fucking stinks. They suck. They suck at their jobs. They're making the products worse. Look at Google search. Look at Microsoft office. Look at Google docs. Look at Facebook or Instagram. These products fucking suck. And they suck at their jobs. They're making the products worse. Look at Google search, look at Microsoft office, look at Google docs, look at Facebook or Instagram.

These products fucking suck. And they suck because these people have been allowed to sleep like comfortably. That the news has not attacked them in the way they should. We need more pressure on them. Well, we need to have you back in a couple of months to see how some of this is shaping up, I think. Dab on them.

I'm never saying that phrase again. That was the- No, but you tried it out here and I'm glad you did. I'm glad you felt safe. No, no, it's fine. I must be held accountable too. We're gonna dab on that, y'all. I don't know.

Ed, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Today, we appreciate your time time and this was a fascinating conversation for an industry that I try to understand but I don't super understand so I've found this really helpful. Can you please please tell our listeners where they can find you and check you out and support your work? Go to betteroffline.com. I am there.

It's all my links. Edzitronon, there's not another Edzitron. This is a pretty unique name. It's a good name. I'm so lucky for that one. Yeah, you can find betteroffline.com I just bought so that everything can be there. That's where you find me.

Thank you guys for listening, for all your support, like, subscribe, etc. All that. So on and so forth. Also, before I forget. What? We love you very much. Much. Are you looking for your next case?

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Hey girlies, I'm Cody Rigsby. And I'm Andrew Chappelle. We're here to announce our brand new podcast, Tactful Pettiness. Now on Podcast One. We have a lot of opinions. Flip flops in New York City? You don't love yourself.

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